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4e philosopher of cognitive science Hanne De Jaegher discusses the profound relationship between loving and knowing as intertwined processes. The first in what we hope to be many conversations about this inspirational work. With Andrea, Hanne explores the idea that thinking and feeling emerge from the same fundamental act of sense-making, which is rooted in our basic, biological existence. De Jaegher shares her personal experiences and how they led to her academic journey studying cognitive science, and then to her work on participatory sense-making. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing both oneness and difference in relationships and the conversation discusses the critical role of noticing and relational awareness. Through various explorations, De Jaegher illustrates how love is an ongoing relational activity that ‘shares a core with knowing’ and that can foster a deeper understanding of ourselves and others.

00:00 The Nature of Love and Sense Making
01:18 Exploring Cognitive Science and Social Cognition
02:58 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
03:52 Hanne’s Academic Journey and Dissertation
05:37 The Philosophy of Love and Knowing
09:38 Personal Reflections on Love and Language
11:48 The Interconnection of Loving, Knowing, and Being
22:26 The Role of Noticing in Relationships
25:36 Philosophical Insights on Ontology and Epistemology
30:03 The Dynamics of Relationships and Sense Making
34:42 The Importance of Holding Tension in Understanding
40:53 The Impact of Loving and Knowing on Personal Growth
47:17 Exploring Abstract Patterns and Sensory Experiences
48:25 Understanding Social Cognition and Autism
56:10 Bridging Cognitive Science and Sociology
58:14 Motivations and Challenges in Academic Life
01:01:15 The Role of Love in Research and Life
01:06:27 Navigating Academic and Personal Challenges
01:18:27 Holding Space and Embracing Multiplicity
01:24:47 Concluding Thoughts on Love and Understanding

Francisco Varela

Loving and Knowing: reflections for an engaged epistemology

Paradoxical Practices (2025) with Elena Cuffari and Rika Preiser

Participatory Sense-Making with Ezequiel Di Paolo

Sense Making (Maturana & Varela)

Living Ways of Sense Making by Evan Thompson

Andy Clark

Hanne’s website and publication list

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