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 This show is about harmonizing the Dao and embracing the world's weirdness at once. Our guest is Eric Schwitzgebel, an analytic philosopher and professor at the University of California Riverside. As they unfold the Dao and the world’s weirdness, Andrea and Eric explore everything from robot consciousness, the love darts of snails, triads, axiology, and the philosophy of opening. Eric shares his journey into classical Chinese philosophy, how we understands harmonizing with the Dao, some of his writings about consciousness, and the importance of appreciating the world's inherent weirdness. This conversation offers a delightful blend of profound ideas and joyous reflections, encouraging us to see weird as a way into new perspectives and perhaps even into love.

00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
00:20 Meet Eric Schwitzgebel: Philosopher and Author
01:37 Exploring the Concept of Harmonizing the Dao
01:52 Journey into Classical Chinese Philosophy
03:59 The Tension Between Analytic and Chinese Philosophy
06:22 Understanding the Dao and Harmony
11:16 The Weird and Wonderful World of Zhuangzi
17:40 The Value of Diversity and Conflict
33:14 The Consciousness of Garden Snails
41:57 Exploring Relationality and Consciousness
43:50 The Consciousness of Plants and Robots
46:52 Philosophical Perspectives on Consciousness
55:38 The Philosophy of Opening vs. Closing
01:10:06 Ethics and Moral Behavior of Ethicists
01:17:43 Love, Marriage, and Harmonizing with the Dao
01:22:16 Final Thoughts and Farewell

The Book we discuss:

The Weirdness of the World

Writings we discuss:

Harmonizing the Dao

Imagining Yourself in Another’s Shoes versus Extending Your Concern: Empirical & Ethical Differences

A Robot Lover's Sociological Argument for Robot Consciousness

Borderline Consciousness

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 Julian Kiverstein is a senior professor at Amsterdam Medical. He's co-authored various papers about the importance of play as it relates to predictive processing, active learning, intimacy and embodied cognition.

Sometimes we get stuck in attractor states. Play is a form of disruption that may be able to help us get unstuck. Play seems to be far from algorithmic.

This conversation explores how playfulness is crucial for meaning and flourishing, and how building safe spaces for play (such as museums and parks) are crucial for healthy societies.

Active inference and predictive processing are discussed as tools that might help us better model and understand this ‘sweet spot’ towards finding ways to create spaces where we can explore uncertainty and risk without danger.

Drawing from his extensive work in phenomenology, embodied cognition, and predictive processing, Julian offers fresh perspectives on how play connects to mental health and wellbeing. Some key ideas from this episode:

• Play requires safety yet involves taking risks—a paradoxical relationship that enables personal growth
• Adults often lose the curious openness of childhood as we become fixated on seriousness and habitual patterns
• Love shares qualities with play as both involve transcendence beyond the self and openness to fresh experiences
• Active inference and predictive processing provide frameworks for understanding both mental illness and flourishing
• Breaking out of "attractor states" or fixed patterns requires disruption that playful activities can provide
• Creating safe spaces for play becomes essential for development, creativity, and meaning-making

00:00 The Role of Play in Well-being
01:50 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
02:45 Exploring Active Inference and Predictive Processing
05:24 The Importance of Play in Development
09:58 Julian's Journey into Mind Studies
12:11 Understanding Mental Illness through Predictive Processing
21:57 The Concept of Play and Its Cognitive Benefits
30:27 Intrinsic Motivation and the Value of Play
44:12 Play as a Disruptive Force in Mental Health
45:09 Understanding Mental Illness and Uncertainty
46:13 The Role of Play in Mental Health
47:38 Creating Safe Spaces for Emotional Regulation
49:05 Exploration vs. Exploitation in Learning
52:03 The Importance of Play in Adulthood
53:35 Art, Literature, and Emotional Engagement
56:55 The Need for Play in Academia
01:20:50 Balancing Exploration and Familiarity
01:23:37 Final Thoughts on Play and Well-being

Play in Predictive Minds

Intimate Places: Playgrounds for self-exploration

Playfulness and the meaningful life with Mark Miller

More of Julian's papers

Stuart Brown and the Institute of Play

JK and Darius Active Inference Institute

Harry Heft Conversation

Karl Friston Conversation

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 Sabina Leonelli (hosted live here by Fotis Tsiroukis) is a philosopher of science and technology renowned for pioneering work in the philosophy of data & open science. As a professor at the Technical University ofMunich (TUM), she directs the Ethical Data Initiative and leads the PHIL_OS project, which develops empirically grounded frameworks for open science in under-resourced research environments. Her interdisciplinary approach bridges high theory with participatory, on-the-ground research—exemplified by her ethnographic collaborations with biologists and data scientists.

In this episode, host Fotis engages in a deep and wide-ranging conversation with Sabina Leonelli. They explore the intersections between philosophy, science, and society, discussing topics like complementary science, the role of qualitative and quantitative methods in research, the challenges of interdisciplinary work, and the ethical implications of AI and data-driven technologies. Sabina urges us to not fear inconvenience—embracing complexity and discomfort in intellectual and social pursuits. The conversation touches on the necessity of love, vulnerability & collective agency in navigating the modern world, offering profound insights into how we can rethink knowledge production, technology, and politics.

Sabina Leonelli

[00:00:00] Highlights & Introduction

[00:10:41] Interview Begins

[00:11:13] Sabina's Journey

[00:14:17] Fascination with Boundary-Disrespecting Thinkers

[00:16:20] Early Influences & Education

[00:19:21] Challenges of Interdisciplinary Work

[00:20:39] Mentors & Inspirations

[00:23:54] The Approach of Complementary Science

[00:28:37] Collaborating with Scientists as a Philosopher

[00:32:26] Philosophy of Data

[00:36:00] Questions Left Out of Biology

[00:37:40] Coming to terms with Social Epistemology

[00:40:05] Choices & Assumptions in Scientific Research

[00:40:05] Willingness to Engage with the Social Nature of Science

[00:44:05] Willingness to Use Different Methods

[00:48:05] Acknowledging the Role of Quantification

[00:50:27] Knowledge Hierarchies

[00:55:00] Mixed Methods for Global Issues

[00:57:00] Limits of AI: The Case of Medical Expertise

[00:58:52] AI as Complement to Expert Knowledge

[01:02:01] Cultural Obsession with Control & Convenience

[01:03:45] Social Media & Digital Divide

[01:07:20] Regaining Agency Through Politics

[01:12:30] Collective Action & Social Relationships

[01:15:00] Need for Political Engagement

[01:17:20] Contemporary Disillusionment

[01:19:40] Love as a Teacher

[01:22:20] Vulnerability & Human Experience

[01:25:50] Caring as Leverage for Engagement

PHIL_OS Project

Ethical Data Initiative (EDI)

(Book, Open Access) 

Data Shadows (Art-Science Film Collaboration)

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 Andrea in conversation with fellow cognitive scientist Mark Michael James, highlighting his journey from understanding patterns of being to shaping habits and realigning health. Mark shares his experiences from Ireland, his academic pursuits, and his present work at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology. This episode delves into synchronicity, embodied cognition, and the philosophies and practices of the arising 'school of way' of practice and philosophy which includes 'wayshaping' and 'waymaking' and pertains to a paper Mark has recently written with Mushfiqa Jamaluddin, Tom Froese, Aisha Belhadi, Anna Panagiotou, and Dave Snowden. It all ties back to practical applications in health, navigating complexity, and striving for a dynamic balance in life. Mark's personal stories and reflections make this a must-watch for anyone interested in cognitive science, philosophy, and the art of living well.

00:00 Introduction to Unexpected Contributions
00:35 Exploring the Concept of 'Craic'
00:56 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
01:02 Introducing Mark Michael James and His Work
02:23 Discussion on Synchronicity and Relevance Realization
06:47 Mark's Journey to Okinawa
12:39 Navigating Personal and Social Patterns
51:23 Health Challenges and Personal Stories
55:06 Sensory Irregularities and Scripts
56:21 Breaching Experiments and Sociological Insights
57:13 Cultural Patterns and the Irish Concept of 'The Crack'
01:03:26 Health, Habits, and Personal Transformation
01:08:05 Philosophical Reflections and Practical Applications
01:19:49 Wayshaping Framework and Multiscale Health
01:27:57 Personal Reflections and Future Directions

Wayshaping paper

Waymaking

OIST

Mark's website

Also, have a look at this book about Mindshaping by Michelle Maiese.

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Jessica Böhme is a sustainability scientist, transformation researcher, and founder of the Institute for Practical Eco Philosophy. Jessica shares her journey of exploring the connection between inner transformation and outer change, and how this quest has influenced her personal and professional life. Andrea and Jessica delve into the concept of living philosophically, the role of relational philosophies, and how they impact sustainability. They also discuss the challenges Jessica faced in academia, the significance of personal practices, and her innovative idea of 'philosophy gyms' aimed at integrating philosophy into everyday life for better ecological and business practices in the engineering world. Jessica also talks about her unique lifestyle choices, her artwork, and the broader implications of living a thoughtful, engaged life.

00:00 Introduction to Inner and Outer Change
00:29 Philosophy as a Way of Life
01:59 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
02:04 Introducing Jessica Böhme
02:37 Exploring Relational Philosophy
03:28 Philosophy Gyms and Ecological Love
04:21 The Knowledge-Action Gap
06:50 Jessica's Academic Journey
09:42 Inner Transformation and Sustainability
10:01 Mechanistic vs. Relational Worldview
12:34 Challenges in Sustainability Science
13:39 The Complexity of Relational Thinking
32:05 Philosophy as a Living Process
37:13 The Paradox of Science and Health
38:13 Personal and Planetary Health
39:43 Patterns in Health and Consumption
40:47 The Role of Awareness and Choice
42:28 Practical Eco Philosophy
44:04 Micro Habits and Daily Practices
48:34 Living Philosophically
59:44 The Concept of Wild
01:01:04 Art and Expression
01:04:51 Philosophy Gyms and Experiments
01:08:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Jessica's Blog

Institute for Practical ekoPhilosophy

Pierre Hadot: Philosophy as a Way of Life

Karen Barad

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The line between a psychotic break and success is not quite as clear as it once was, nor is the question of what medication, therapy, or practice is best, or in what amount. This conversation tries to unpack that liminal space with a man who knows it well and has been able to stay connected to the love in it.

In this episode of Love and Philosophy, Andrea engages in an in-depth conversation with Tom Morgan, exploring the complexities of love, philosophy, and personal transformation. They discuss the challenging balance between high-functioning careers and spiritual pursuits, the misconceptions around self-sacrifice and service, and the importance of community in navigating life transitions. Tom shares his personal journey from a high-stress finance career through an awakening experience, detailing his struggles with mental health, the role of psychiatric medication, and the lessons he's learned about integrating holistic and scientific perspectives. This episode delves into the nuanced intersections of mental health, personal growth, and the pursuit of meaning, offering invaluable insights for anyone on a similar path.

00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
00:06 Exploring the Concept of Love
01:06 Introducing Tom Morgan
01:57 Tom's Journey from Finance to Philosophy
03:28 Balancing Wealth and Well-being
05:42 The Intersection of Science and Spirituality
08:28 Tom's Personal Awakening
13:54 Navigating the Hero's Journey
20:10 Challenges of Spiritual Integration
23:10 Holding the Tension Between Worlds
43:54 The Choice to Change
45:38 The Struggle with Identity and Career
47:07 Understanding Self-Sacrifice vs. Service
47:46 The Paradox of Complexity
51:01 The Role of Ketamine and Mental Health
58:56 Integrating Spiritual and Physical Health
01:06:45 The Importance of Community Support
01:09:58 Navigating High-Functioning Anxiety
01:17:23 Embracing Love and Contribution
01:22:50 The Future of Consciousness and Society

Professional Qalifications & Photo Ref (Wall Street, philosophy degree from Oxford, etc.)

The Leading Edge

Tom's Substack

Andrea's Substack

Hero's Journey

Jill Bolte Taylor

Victor Frankl — 'What is to give light must endure burning.'

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A heart-meets-mind discussion about complexity science and its suprising relation to Daoism, with physicist Jean Boulton. The conversation explores how stability and change are part of a reflexive interweaving of relationships, the importance of actions and behaviors in co-creating the future, and the role of compassion and love in fostering resilience. We also touch on the profound influence of spiritual practices such as Taoism and Buddhism on understanding complexity. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of integrating heart and mind, and how seemingly small, compassionate acts can create significant shifts. Whether you're interested in spiritual traditions, scientific perspectives, or personal development, this episode offers a rich tapestry of insights to inspire and guide you.

Visit Jean's website

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00:00 Introduction to Change and the Dao

00:33 The Interconnectedness of Actions and Behaviors

01:11 Embracing Complexity and Wider Perspectives

01:43 Guest Introduction: Jean's Background and Interests

01:50 Understanding Complexity in Science and Everyday Life

04:03 The Mechanistic Worldview vs. Complexity Science

06:29 Personal Journey: From Physics to Philosophy

08:09 The Influence of Family and Early Philosophical Interests

11:14 Process Complexity and the Dao

11:41 The Paradox of Stability and Change

13:31 The Role of Context and History in Shaping Patterns

14:11 Discovering Daoism and Its Connection to Complexity

15:47 The Nuances of Daoism in Understanding Complexity

19:21 The Importance of Actions, Intentions, and Purpose

26:13 The Role of Attention and Noticing in Complexity

27:55 Integrating Heart, Mind, and Body in Complexity Science

33:23 The Embodied Experience of Complexity

35:02 The Interdisciplinary Nature of Complexity

36:04 Meditation and Embodiment

37:19 Tibetan Yoga and Compassion

40:16 Childhood and Personal Growth

42:42 Societal Wounds and Addictions

Loving & Knowing

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(Kaufmann Neworks are Boolean: see here if you want to know more, but you don't need to know anything about them to understand this episode)

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Embracing Uncertainty: Barry O'Reilly on Software Architecture and Philosophy

In this episode of Love and Philosophy, we sit down with Barry O'Reilly, a seasoned software architect with a deep background in pure mathematics and experience at top companies like Microsoft. He discusses his innovative concept, Residuality Theory, which introduces complexity theory into software development for the first time. Barry explains how traditional linear thinking in coding often leads to rigid and brittle constructs that fail to adapt to the constantly changing business environments. By embracing paradoxes and uncertainties using theories from philosophy and complexity sciences, Barry offers a new perspective on software architecture that combines the logical rigor of code with the adaptability required for real-world human systems. Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that bridges the gap between coding and philosophy, and learn how embracing uncertainty can lead to more resilient and flexible software solutions.

00:00 The Rigidity of Software vs. The Chaos of Business
00:46 The Philosophical Roots of Computer Science
01:28 The Architect's Paradox: Linear Thinking vs. Human Systems
02:20 Introducing Residue: Adapting to Change
03:16 The Relief of Embracing Uncertainty
04:16 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
11:34 Meet Barry O'Reilly: From Math to Software Architecture
16:02 The Journey to Complexity Theory
21:25 Handling Uncertainty in Software Projects
26:47 The Evolution of Software Engineering
31:42 The Birth of Residue and Ity Theory
38:17 The Need for a New Philosophical Approach
43:36 The Immaturity of Software Engineering
46:03 Personal Frustrations and Philosophical Pursuits
46:40 The Reflective Practitioner and Instinctive Problem Solving
47:13 Linear Thinking vs. Embracing Uncertainty
49:34 Philosophical Foundations in Software Engineering
01:05:03 Hyper Liminality and System Resilience
01:13:45 The Role of Play and Forgiveness in Software Development
01:19:16 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Architect's Paradox: Uncertainty and the Philosophy of Software Architecture

Residues: Time, Change, and Uncertainty in Software Architecture.

You Tube Talks:

Residuality Theory

Architect's Paradox

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Andrea sits down with Kevin Kelly, a true pioneer in the world of technology and futurism. Known for his foundational work with Whole Earth, Wired Magazine and definitive pieces like '1000 True Fans,' Kelly shares insights from his early fascination with science fiction to his groundbreaking contributions in understanding and shaping the digital age and technological ideas. They discuss the profound influence of science fiction on technological advancements, the humanizing impact of the internet, and the vital importance of travel and curiosity for finding meaning. Kelly explains the nuanced continuum between biology and technology, the concept of 'hill making' versus 'hill climbing' in innovation, and how love and community remain central to his work. As they delve into Kelly's latest book 'Excellent Advice for Living,' this conversation offers rich perspectives on maintaining creativity, embracing complexity, and fostering an optimistic outlook in an ever-evolving world.

00:00 Introduction and Early Influences
00:05 The Role of Science Fiction in Shaping Technology
01:58 Discovering the Internet as a New Frontier
04:30 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
04:36 Kevin Kelly's Background and Achievements
09:30 Early Encounters with Computers
14:28 The Humanizing Effect of the Internet
17:42 Meeting Stewart Brand and the Whole Earth Catalog
28:01 The Importance of Travel and Broader Perspectives
33:38 The Transformative Power of Travel
34:37 Embracing Unique Paths in Life
35:47 The Value of Time Over Money
40:16 The Birth of Artificial Life and Wired Magazine
46:34 The Paradox of Progress and Creativity
53:38 The Importance of Noticing and Small Steps
01:01:33 Hill Making vs. Hill Climbing
01:02:59 Final Thoughts on Love and Life

Excellent Advice for Living

Kevin Kelly on Substack

https://kk.org/

Stewart Brand

Whole Earth Catalogue and Whole Earth Review

the WELL

WIRED Magazine

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LinkedIn

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Participatory sense-making is a term coined by Hanne De Jaegher & Ezequiel Di Paolo. Both these philosophers will be featured in upcoming episodes.

Andrea Hiott hosts Rebecca Todd, Shay Welch, and Penijean Gracefire explore intricate themes of participatory sensemaking, the concept of the 'third entity,' and the impact of trauma and love on interpersonal relationships. The discussion delves into how the body acts as a data-gathering device, how sensory inputs shape our understanding of the world, and the importance of mutual sense-making in a highly complex and often overwhelming environment. Each speaker shares their unique perspectives and experiences, from cognitive neuroscience to ethical interactions, ultimately highlighting the significance of staying connected both with others and oneself. This conversation is intellectually stimulating and emotionally enriching, drawing on neuroscience, philosophy, and mental health to offer fresh insights into navigating the complexities of human interaction.

00:00 Introduction to the Body as a Data Gathering Device
00:57 The Futility of Communication and Social Media
02:35 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
02:52 Participatory Sense Making and Social Cognition
04:46 Meet the Three: Beck Todd, Shay Welch, and Penijean Gracefire
05:46 Rebecca Todd: Cognitive Neuroscience and Life Experience
08:13 Penijean Gracefire: Neurotechnology and Human Function
12:21 Shay Welch: Philosophy, Public Art, and Participatory Sensemaking
15:50 Exploring the Concept of the Body
23:09 The Role of EEG in Understanding the Brain
52:36 The Impact of Trauma on Sensemaking
53:25 Introduction to Anchors and Interactions
54:14 Effortful Sense Making Shaped by Love
55:16 Individual Differences in Sensory Systems
56:24 Neuromodulation and Sense Making
59:24 Visualization and Communication Challenges
01:03:07 Complexity Fatigue and Bandwidth
01:14:11 Neuromodulation Device Experiment
01:20:35 Participatory Sense Making with the More-than-Human World
01:29:34 Challenges of Virtual Interaction
01:36:48 The Futility and Hope of Communication

L&P Newsletter

PSM Paper

A Multiplicity of Worlds

What is Participatory Sense-making and Why Should We Care?

Steve Paxton, originator of the practice of contact improvisation, himself says:  “The reason it’s called contact improvisation is because there is a third entity that arises in the state – it is the state of agreement between the two of you that neither one is leading. It doesn’t become leaderless, the two of you are leading.” Source

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