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 Love, Science, and the Dynamics of Change: From the Archive

This is a replay of an earlier conversation with Richard Watson (which was already an unpublished conversation we'd had earlier, so there's lots of nesting here). Initially focusing on Universal Darwinism and its limitations, the discussion evolves into a broader examination of alternative mechanisms like learning and mutual transformative change. Andrea and Richard delve into nuanced definitions of individuality and agency, challenging the reductionist view in favor of a more integrative approach. They explore the intersection of science and subjectivity, positing that love, characterized as 'deeply vulnerable mutual knowing,' plays a critical role in understanding relationships and evolutionary processes. This thought-provoking dialogue highlights the dynamic interplay of biological systems and the potential for a more compassionate and creative understanding of life's complexity.

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
00:27 Andrea's Reflections and Richard Watson's Work
00:56 Defining Individual and Body
01:14 Evolutionary Units and Mutual Transformative Change
01:41 Academic Ideas on Evolution and Cognition
03:27 Richard Watson's Background and Research
05:22 Natural Selection and Adaptation
12:02 Learning Processes vs. Natural Selection
21:08 Cooperation and Competition in Biology
28:53 Individuality and Agency in Living Systems
39:20 Bioelectricity and Gene Expression
40:51 The Bidirectional Relationship of Cells and Genes
41:34 The Limits of Natural Selection
42:55 Love as a Scientific Concept
47:06 Evolutionary Algorithms and Their Shortcomings
50:00 The Evolution of Cooperation and Individuality
54:09 The Role of Love in Evolution
59:25 The Dance of Relationships and Resonance
01:07:33 The Creative Process of Evolution
01:18:01 The Balance of Love and Fear

Richard Watson

What's Love Got To Do with It

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Trust, Agency, and the Art of Games with C. Thi Nguyen

Revisting a conversation from late 2023 with philosopher C Thi Nguyen. The discussion delves into the philosophical aspects of games, how they shape our agency, and the profound impact they have on our cognition and perception of reality. Thi explores the intersection of love, trust, and philosophical inquiry, highlighting the intricate ways games influence our societal interactions and personal experiences. The episode also touches on how games can be a lens for understanding broader human behaviors and the nature of agency itself. Join us as we navigate these complex ideas and reflect on the role of games in our lives.

00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
00:54 Navigational Mind and Upcoming Conversations
01:36 Revisiting the Conversation with C Thi Nguyen
01:49 Games and Sculpted Agency
03:03 Trust and Agency in Games
07:39 Philosophy, Writing, and Personal Journey
21:16 Games as Art and Medium of Agency
30:57 Art, Porn, and Sentimental Art
36:08 The Role of Games and Art in Emotional Release
36:29 Aesthetic Approaches and Viewer Attitudes
37:10 Games as Tools for Different Experiences
38:02 Personal Reflections on Sports and Dance
39:46 Agency and Game Design
41:10 The Power and Danger of Games
45:06 Virtual Reality and Games
46:58 The Concept of Play vs. Games
56:08 Games and Trust
59:09 The Impact of Games on Perception and Behavior
01:04:04 Final Thoughts and Reflections
01:05:17 Support and Farewell

Trust and Anti-trust

Games, Agency as Art

The Score

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AI, Suffering, Remedy and Love as the voluntary suspension of habitual responses into awareness: This episode is with philosopher and cognitive scientist Thomas Metzinger, a Professor Emeritus at Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and a member of the German National Academy Leopoldina. He has worked mainly in philosophy of mind, cognitive science, and applied ethics, particularly focusing on neurotechnology, virtual reality, and artificial intelligence. The conversation explores a wide range of topics including the critical intersection of philosophy, neuroscience, meditation, and artificial intelligence. Metzinger shares his skepticism about separating deep philosophical inquiries from meditation and psychedelics, and the dialogue touches upon the impact of AI on human cognition, the concept of suffering in both humans and machines, and the responsibility of philosophers in an age of epistemic crisis. The discussion underscores the need for a balanced and multifaceted approach to understanding consciousness and suggests that new paradigms may emerge from current technological and philosophical shifts. This episode aims to foster an expansive and hopeful outlook as we move into the new year. The idea of pure consciousness as used in phenomenology via Husserl is to be discussed later.

00:00 Introduction to Fundamental Issues and Meditation
00:44 Epistemic Crisis and AI Concerns
01:15 Buddhism and Suffering
02:09 Philosophical Insights on Suffering and Awareness
04:47 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
05:43 Introducing Thomas Metzinger
07:43 Thomas Metzinger's Contributions to Philosophy and AI
09:53 Exploring Minimal Phenomenal Experience (MPE)
13:49 Narrative and Pure Awareness
22:09 Philosophical and Scientific Exploration of Consciousness
29:30 Thomas Metzinger's Personal Journey in Philosophy
56:11 Criticism and Meditation
56:55 Epistemic Authority and Consciousness
59:27 Embodiment in AI and Philosophy
01:01:52 Challenges in Academia
01:05:31 AI, Critical Thinking, and Future Concerns
01:15:29 The Nature of Suffering
01:22:50 Compassion and Love
01:44:12 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
01:44:30 A Poetic Farewell

Thomas Metzinger

phenomenology of 'pure' consciousness

Link to Elephant and the Blind full book

New book Bewusstseinkultur

MPE discussion mentioned in Intro

MPE project

Philosophy Babble conversations

Beyond Nondual

Thomas Metzinger (*1958 in Frankfurt am Main, Germany) was Full Professor of Theoretical Philosophy at the Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz until 2019. He is past president of the German Cognitive Science Society (2005-2007) and of the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness (2009-2011). As of 2011, he is an Adjunct Fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies, a co-founder of the German Effective Altruism Foundation...

Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout. 

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 with philosopher Esther Lightcap Meek, Professor of Philosophy emerita at Geneva College, in Western Pennsylvania

exploring from-to fractals, Michael Polanyi, Meek's Indeterminate Future Manifestations, the difference between information and knowledge, epistemological therapy... and all with some laughter and good cheer

Happy holidays! These conversations are part of research: to skip the research ramble, go to 26:30. This episode explores the intricate relationships between knowledge, information, reality, and love with guest Esther Lightcap Meek. Building on the ideas of Michael Polanyi, Esther and Andrea delve into the concept of ‘subsidiary focal integration’ and its implications for how we understand reality. The conversation addresses the limitations of viewing knowledge merely as information, the importance of bodily cognition, and how love and communion with the real are fundamental to genuine knowing. It shows how philosophy can be understood as therapeutic, a dynamic process that connects us deeply with ourselves, each other, and the world.

00:00 Introduction to the Concept of Reality and Information

01:46 The Role of Subsidiary Focal Integration

03:36 Exploring Covenant Epistemology

04:54 Understanding Bodily Cognition

06:44 Introducing Esther Lightcap Meek

08:50 The Journey of a Philosopher

10:46 The Importance of Subsidiary Focal Integration

13:02 Practical Applications and Everyday Philosophy

16:40 The Role of Philosophy in Real Life

26:31 A Conversation with Esther Lightcap Meek

49:34 Integrative Knowledge and Liberation

50:25 Epistemological Therapy and Embodied Cognition

52:37 The Role of Subsidiary Focal Integration

54:58 Daisy of Dichotomies and Modernity

57:54 The Interpersonal Nature of Knowledge

01:11:20 Covenant Epistemology in Education

01:18:35 AI, Tools, and the Real

01:29:14 The Role of Love in Knowing 

Tacit Knowledge

Michael Polanyi

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Maybe memory is a way we communicate with ourselves and the world at various layers, a bridging experience of what we call time and space.

In this episode, Andrea Hiott and Lynn Nadel continue their ongoing talks about memory. This time they explore the intricate workings of the hippocampus, focusing on its role in bridging spatial and temporal gaps. They delve into how memory, navigation, and cognitive maps are interconnected, challenging traditional views and opening up discussions on the dynamic nature of memory. 

Lynn shares insights from this paper, discusses how past research has evolved, touching upon philosophical perspectives from Kant and modern neuroscience findings. The conversation also briefly touches on the broader implications, including how understanding the hippocampus might extend to broader cognitive functions and societal interactions. There’s an in-depth ‘research ramble’ from Andrea at the beginning for those interested in the wider themes of this whole project, but you can also skip past that and go to the main conversation if you wish.

The main paper discussed here is The Hippocampal Formation and Action at a Distance

Previous conversations with Lynn and Andrea

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The Hippocampal Formation and Action at a Distance

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 Hey everybody. This podcast is about seemingly impossible combinations and this one is the doozy of love and power. It’s about the politics of care. Or love in politics. Can you hold those words at once? Can we? We might be surprised by ourselves.

This episode, hosted by philosopher and cognitive scientist Andrea Hiott, delves into the intersection of love and power in political and personal realms. Guest Jamie Bristow, with his extensive experience in the British Parliament and the UN, explores how mindfulness, consciousness, and inner transformation can reshape politics and society. Through discussing concepts like Eros, resilience, and ontological meta modernism, the conversation examines how personal and societal change can be navigated, holding love and power together to create meaningful transformation. The episode also touches on Jamie's journey from a corporate advertising executive to a 'legitimizing agent' for contemplative practices in politics, highlighting the role of faith, trust, and the evolving nature of consciousness.

Jamie is a policy advisor working at the intersection of inner & outer transformation, resilience and sustainability

Find Jamie and his work here

*Also the episode with Fotis and Johannes that also touches on themes of metamodernism

00:00 The Sacred Nature of Power
02:05 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
02:25 Exploring Love and Power in Politics
03:14 Jamie Bristow's Journey
08:41 Mindfulness in Parliament
18:38 The Intersection of Inner and Outer Worlds
31:51 The Role of Love and Power in Society
43:45 Exploring the Concept of Eros
44:23 The Broader Implications of Eros
46:33 Love as a Cosmic Force
47:43 Resilience and the Role of Love
52:51 Trust and Faith in Personal Growth
55:43 The Politics of Love
01:14:06 Navigating Modernity and Postmodernity
01:19:18 The Middle Way and Superposition
01:27:50 Closing Reflections on Love and Philosophy

The System Within: addressing the inner dimensions of sustainability and systems transformation
Mindfulness in Westminster: Reflections from UK Politicians
Reconnection: Meeting the Climate Crisis Inside Out
The Conscious Food Systems Alliance (UNDP) 
Power & Love: A Theory and Practice of Social Change by Adam Kahane
Political Emotions: Why Love Matters for Justice - Martha Nussbaum

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This episode, hosted by philosopher Andrea Hiott, explores the concept of embracing paradox with Lisa Maroski, author of 'Embracing Paradox, Evolving Language.' The discussion delves into how our language separates concepts, leading to binary thinking, and how questioning and reexamining these linguistic habits can foster a deeper understanding of interconnectedness. Using the metaphor of the Mobius Strip, Lisa explains the importance of holding multiple truths simultaneously and the potential for transforming our worldview. They touch on various topics, including the influence of language on culture, the need for a new way of thinking to address global crises, and the role of love and trust in fostering connection. The conversation encourages listeners to see beyond binary choices and embrace a more integrated, kaleidoscopic approach to understanding and caring for the world.
www.lisamaroski.com

00:00 Introduction to Paradoxical Thinking
02:54 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
03:23 Exploring Language and Cognitive Boundaries
04:08 Introducing Lisa and Her Book
05:21 The Mobius Strip Metaphor
06:03 The Complexity of Language and Culture
26:20 Dynamic Processes and Biological Insights
28:48 The Existential Motivation for Change
32:15 Exploring New Ways of Being
33:54 Interconnectedness and Environmental Awareness
38:35 The Power of Questions
48:40 Learning from Different Perspectives
51:45 Language and Collective Change
58:27 Embracing Paradox and Wholeness
01:00:40 Final Thoughts and Book Recommendations

L.E. (Lisa) Maroski didn’t intend to become an editor, it just so happened that she was good at helping people say what they really wanted to say, not what they wrote. After years of doing that for others, she turned her trade on herself, publishing a novel, The One That Is Both, in 2006 and Embracing Paradox, Evolving Language in 2024. Both books derive from a deep desire for language to be able to “do more.” A third book that continues this theme is in development. Having studied philosophy and psychology but working in medical editing and writing, she considers herself a generalist, one who likes to make connections between ideas. An avid dancer, she balances mind with motion, lofty thoughts with high kicks. You might find her dancing tango somewhere…

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Rethinking Everyday Care with Jérome Denis and David Pontille

In this episode of Love and Philosophy, host Andrea explores the often overlooked but essential realm of maintenance and care, diving into its philosophical, social, and political dimensions. Joined by guests Jérome Denis and David Pontille, accomplished scholars from France, the discussion delves into how maintenance connects with the theories of care, the work of influential figures like Bruno Latour, and the interdisciplinary field of Science and Technology Studies (STS). They unpack the intricate relationship between humans and objects, examining concepts like fragility, multisensory engagement, and the distinction between maintenance and repair. Highlighting the everyday labor involved in maintaining objects and environments—from subway signs to classic cars—the conversation underscores the need to recognize and value the unseen work that sustains our daily lives. The episode draws on rich examples, including the upkeep of the Paris Metro and the care of classic Mustangs, to illustrate the profound impact of maintenance on our understanding of relationships, both material and social.

The book is available in English and French from all major booksellers:
The Care of Things: Ethics and Politics of Maintenance

00:00 Introduction to Maintenance and Care
00:30 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
00:56 Exploring Science and Technology Studies (STS)
01:40 Bruno Latour and Actor-Network Theory
03:45 The Care of Things: Introducing the Guests
04:43 The Paris Metro Signage Study
05:08 The Philosophy of Maintenance
06:09 The Role of Maintenance Workers
07:34 Fragility and the Importance of Care
11:08 Multisensory Engagement in Maintenance
12:56 The Mundane Expertise of Maintenance
42:19 The Drama of Maintenance
42:50 Maintenance vs. Repair: A Philosophical Dive
44:08 The Heroism in Repair
46:59 John Oliver's Take on Infrastructure
49:10 Classic Mustang Maintenance
54:17 The Ambiguities of Maintenance
57:17 Care as Work: A Feminist Perspective
59:28 The Cost of Maintenance
59:58 The Myth of Autonomy in Technology
01:03:25 Personal Reflections on Maintenance
01:20:16 The Role of Love in Maintenance

John Oliver Infrastructure Clip

Jérome Denis is Director of the Centre de sociologie de l'innovation at Mines Paris-PSL.

David Pontille is Director of Research at Centre national de la recherche scientifique (CNRS) in Paris.

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 Buy L&P its first coffee

Neuroscience, Geometric Hyperscanning, and Real Time Relation

Andrea welcomes Nicolás to discuss the cutting-edge neuroscience technique of hyperscanning, which records brain activity from two or more individuals simultaneously during social interactions. They dive into how hyperscanning reveals brain synchronization reflecting shared attention, empathy, and effective communication. The conversation highlights the broader applications, from studying parent-child bonding and social disorders to advancing mental health interventions. The discussion also touches on integrating philosophical insights to better understand social interactions, emphasizing the importance of holding scientific paradoxes and envisioning a more holistic approach to studying human connection.

Watch Nicolás Hinrich's Active Inference Institute recorded talk here

Geometric Hyperscanning of Affect under Active Inference

On a Geometry of Interbrain Networks

Nico's homepage

Watch on YouTube

Read more about this on Substack

The Art of Asynchrony

00:00 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
01:03 Introduction to Hyperscanning
01:37 Mechanics and Applications of Hyperscanning
03:16 Neural Synchrony and Its Implications
04:36 Exploring Jung's Synchronicity
07:52 Active Inference and Social Synchrony
13:50 Practical Considerations and Future Directions
38:47 Introduction to Prisma and Hyper Scanning
39:28 Extending Prisma Methodology
40:55 Philosophy and Neuroscience Integration
41:51 Participatory Sense Making and Hyper Scanning
43:01 Holding Paradoxes in Research
46:51 Geometric Thinking in Hyper Scanning
52:26 Temporal Aiming and Synchrony
59:30 Neuroprotective Rituals and Mental Health
01:07:23 Balancing Science and Art in Research
01:16:04 Concluding Thoughts on Hyper Scanning and Care

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Moving Beyond Binaries in Education - A Conversation with Tim Logan

This bonus episode features a conversation with Tim Logan from his podcast The Future Learning Design. In this episode, Tim and Andrea are discussing advancements and challenges in education. They explore themes such as the limitations of traditional education frameworks, the emerging insights from 4E cognitive science, and the importance of embodied, relational and ecological approaches to cognition. They also discuss the disorienting yet exciting potential of understanding education as a living, dynamic process. Through it all, the conversation emphasizes the importance of love, attention, and awareness in reshaping educational paradigms. Check out Tim Logan's work with Good Impact Labs and connect with him on LinkedIn.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
01:49 Starting the Podcast Episode
02:43 Exploring Cognitive Science
05:16 The Role of Education
08:52 Challenges in Education Systems
13:19 The Future of Learning and Technology
22:38 Navigating Educational Metrics
30:54 Exploring the Teacher-Student Dynamic
32:13 Implicit vs Explicit Learning
35:33 The Importance of Context in Education
36:32 The Third Entity in Education
40:56 Sensing and Cognition
48:49 The Relational Process of Educating
53:47 Concluding Thoughts on Education and Love

Tim Logan is an education leader, connector and facilitator. Tim moves projects from innovative learning design to effectively executing ideas on the ground, swiftly. Bringing his extensive learnings and insights from a global career in youth work, teaching, school leadership and consultancy, Tim has worked with prominent clients around the world to develop new and innovative approaches to learning, well-being and youth engagement. He has most recently worked with International Baccalaureate, Nordic Bildung and Nora Bateson’s team at International Bateson Institute. Tim is also host/producer of the Future Learning Design podcast.

Tim on LinkedIn

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