Lunch with Leon

A prolific writer of articles and visible on social media, Philip Gerhardt is this week’s dining companion on ‘Lunch with Leon’.

Currently General Manager - Route Performance at Arriva London, Philip is ‘destined for great things’ says Leon Daniels, who charts Philip’s rise through the industry since joining as a trainee 12 years ago.

In a conversation that the “younger generation would do well to hear,” reckons Leon, they chat about the transformation of the transport industry and new technologies – a real passion for Philip.

He explains why the newly-announced National Bus Strategy “opens so many doors” as he talks with passion about transport and its future.

“We have a responsibility to take people in the industry on the journey with us” says Philip as he explains how data “can really change how we look at the world” and deliver even better performance.

Whether demand-responsive travel (DRT) will ever become mainstream is mulled over, while Philip reveals how he spent his spare time in lockdown trying to break travel apps.

“We’re on the cusp of greatness in transport,” he adds as the conversation moves onto the possibilities of dynamic scheduling using real-time data. Will this, they ponder, lead to the possibility of live automated bus rescheduling on hi-frequency services?

Before wrapping up, they offer advice for young people who are thinking of joining the transport industry. What would Philip say to someone who is weighing up, for example, whether to go into retail, computer games, banking or something else? 

Describing his experiences, Philip concludes by talking about how to make transport attractive to young people as a career choice.

“Make it as clean and simple as possible.” That’s the guiding principles that Prof John Miles Director of Research in Transitional Energy Strategies at the University of Cambridge, reckons we should focus on for transport.

He’s no ‘boffin’ either, but also gets his hands dirty in the real world working with global consultants, Arup, and has first-hand knowledge of many types of transport schemes.

He tells Leon Daniels what’s wrong with Milton Keynes, and talks about the opportunity-charging bus project in the city.

Swiftly scything through all the jargon, he cuts to the chase to set out the pros and cons of all the different energy types used to power vehicles; which ones have the edge and why.

In an informed and objective analysis, he looks at what is possible. Throwing down a challenge to elected mayors looking to solve congestion, he sets out why it’s not an impossible solution.

The Great Persuader

“It’s about kicking down doors and taking people to see things,” says Andrew Braddock, about how to change the views and perceptions of those in charge, over lunch with Leon Daniels OBE.

Andrew – a public transport pioneer, who had a long and distinguished career with the National Bus Company and then Transport for London - chats with Leon about what we could do to change transport for the better.

He knows all about making change happen as when working in London he was the first pathfinder into the world of accessible buses, something that’s now universal and taken for granted. 

Under his watch, the UK’s first buses accessible for people with disabilities were introduced and he knows how hard it can be to change established views.

They talk about the possible ways out of the current pandemic for public transport, and Andrew argues why the general media’s predictions of the amount of working-from-home (WFH) in the future are exaggerated.

Andrew and Leon mull over how to replace the tax revenue from fuel duty, as the UK moves to an electric car future – and that opens up a bigger conversation about the ‘honesty’ that voters need to have about tax.
And, in a wide-ranging conversation they also cover topics as diverse as asparagus, cherries and trolleybuses…

Anna Whitty MBE is the Chief Executive of Ealing Community Transport (ECT), which provides safe, accessible and affordable community transport to people unable to use mainstream transport due to mobility or other difficulties, or because ordinary public transport is unavailable in their area.

Formed in 1979, it now offers its services across not just its West London namesake borough, but also in Cheshire, and Dorset.

Anna tells Leon how community transport serves people who ‘fall between the gaps’ of mainstream provision and are the ‘hidden heroes’. 

The independent charity provides a door-to-door service for those who can’t use public transport. Anna explains why door-to-door – rather than ‘kerb-to-kerb’ – is so important.

They chat about ECT’s role in providing accessible transport during the 2012 London Olympics, and how it demonstrated to the world what a good accessible transport network looks like.

They move on to chat about how improvements in customer service and operations have been made, including MiDAS (Minibus Driver Awareness Scheme) and the high standards ECT sets with regards to recruitment and training of drivers. 

Anna closes by explaining how her staff pulled together to help community in need during the first Covid lockdown.

Doing amazing things for autonomous vehicles…

In a trans-Atlantic lunch – with one guest in California and the other  in the UK – Leon Daniels meets with dRISK. 

Chatting with CEO Chess Stetson in California and Business Development/Programme Manager Rav Babbra in the UK, they talk about their work with the government-owned Centre for Connected and Autonomous Vehicles (C-CAV).

We hear how they have been tasked by the UK government, through the C-CAVS to build the ‘ultimate driving test’ – not for human drivers, but to test self-driving cars.

Their test will determine that autonomous vehicles (AVs) are not simply ‘as safe’ as those driven by humans, but much safer than human drivers.

We learn that the test is being used with current AV technologies, to establish how we can get to a ‘vision zero’ (for accidents) in the UK.

Leon asks why it is acceptable that 1,500 people a year in the UK are killed by human drivers, yet critics say that AVs must have zero accidents?

He discusses why people are not as outranged by existing UK road deaths as they should be, given that 1,500 deaths a year wouldn’t be acceptable in industry or commerce, for example.

Chess opines that the UK’s ‘zero vision’ towards accidents is a “World-leading vision and a much more holistic approach to safety than many other places.”

He explains how the driving test for AVs will be used by the DVLA/DVSA when an AV is to be certified for use in the UK.

Like the UK driving test for humans, the AV version will present a range of scenarios to test the AV.

We learn how, using Transport for London (TfL)’s 1,000 traffic CCTV cameras, dRISK has been capturing ‘edge cases’ - high-risk incidents - and re-creating them in the simulation environment to see what the AV will do. 

And, he poses the oft-asked questions: Will an AV stop for a child running out from behind an ice-cream van, or will it kill it? Other questions discussed include telling the difference between a real human and a dummy.

Chess explains why an AV will be able to recognise that a child dressed in a costume as a green traffic light, is recognised as a child crossing the road, not a green traffic light, even though it’s a situation the AV has never come across before.

“AVs predict what’s going to happen, not what has happened – and they can do that now already – for example, how to deal with the guy in the chicken suit at a level crossing,” he says.

The wide-ranging conversation turns to the ‘naked highways’  - ones without physical traffic signs and traffic lights – as the AV ‘talks’ with the infrastructure and receives instructions.

The thorny subject of cyclists and their interaction with AVs is mulled over. Says Chess “Cyclists and human drivers never get on; AVs will be able to negotiate their way around them.”

Then they look at how automation will develop. Will it be a progressive change, or an overnight switch from manually-driven cars to AVs? This leads onto to the increasing automation of existing new vehicles, with systems such as lane keeping and emergency braking already mandatory.

The move to full automation in commercial vehciles is examined, and the reasons for hub-to-hub trunking with trucks being the most likely first-adopters.

The wider applications for automation are explored, with its use to de-risk the entire transport network. 

We discover that already dRISK’s software is used to re-route human driven vehicles to reduce risk. What would be the positive effect on fleet managers if by rerouting, they could reduce their accident claims by 10% in a year? How artificial intelligence (AI) uses data to plan routes that are safest at certain times of day, is explained.

Rav discusses how the integration of AI into transport is no pipe dream, and talks about how dRISK re-purposed its ‘object detection’ software for Covid, to take feeds from TfL’s roadside CCTV cameras.

In this new guise, AI counted people and vehicles, to see the effects of lockdown and monitor social distancing. The results are fed back to councils which can establish if the measures it put in place, for example barriers for pavement widening or space for tables and cafes, are working or not. It can also identify hotspots, for example at pedestrian crossings, where reducing the wait time reduces pedestrian congestion.

The conversation concludes with Rav talking about two surveys that are currently open about fleet managers’ opinions on the risks of vehicle routing, and the public’s opinion on AVs.


The Risk Survey - https://www.research.net/r/driskedgecasesurvey

The Public Opinion About AVs Survey  https://www.dgcities.com/drisk

D-RISK project website - https://drisk-project.org/

dRISK.ai company website -  https://drisk.ai/

Everyone’s take on the National Bus Strategy is different, but who better to comment on it than Thomas Ableman. 

With a career in bus, rail and now the founder and CEO of Snap Travel Technology – a virtual coach company which has run 25m passenger miles without any coaches or drivers – he sees all sides of the issues, especially on ticketing integration and local politics.

He also runs the The Freewheeling Podcas‪t‬ which aims to be a platform for fresh voices and unconventional thinkers. Over lunch with Leon Daniels OBE he discusses the 21,000 words bus strategy – and importantly what’s not in in – plus, why bus company share prices didn’t move after its publication and why there was not a collective ‘gnashing of teeth’.

Thomas looks at the implications of the marriage of the words ‘discretionary’ and ‘funding’ in the document and explores whether the promised £3bn is vulnerable to future cuts. The strategy sets out the direction of travel – which is great news for those already in partnership – but, says

Thomas, in areas such as Luton that could be very different, and he explains why. “There’s lots of talking to be done by people who haven’t talked for many years,” he adds. Leon and Thomas mull over what could happen in local authority areas where the balance of power drifts between two parties – with just one or two councillors’ seats making the difference – and why a planned bus lane could change the balance of power.

Moving onto the affects for areas where there is no strong political leadership, Thomas adds that the Government has ‘weaponised’ dishonesty as a tool of leadership. He also reckons that there are dangers for the transport industry in thinking it’s “on the side of angels.” They also chew over the big missing item from all the Government’s slew of recent transport announcements: How do we replace the £3.8bn of fuel duty, as we move to net zero? Pondering the likelihood of road pricing and the possible options, Thomas sets out why it needs to be started now and “can’t be a policy in five years’ time.”

Other aspects that touch on buses, but have been ignored by the strategy are debated, including how to deal with the “inter-departmental chasm” that sees major schemes, such as planning for hospitals, schools and business parks, “failing the bus industry.” Thomas explains why a statutory duty to consult about bus services as part of the planning process should be a statutory duty, in the same way as it is already for cycling. “It would be an easy win as a lot of the improvements, especially before making the planning application, are zero cost.”

He concludes by talking about why bus fares pricing should follow coffee shops and fast-food places, leveraging contactless and enabling incremental price changes, so that the bus industry gets to the same place as TfL is, where people don’t complain – or even notice – about the detail of TfL fares.

The many questions about how we reach net-zero

In a special edition, Leon Daniels swaps notes with Sara Sloman, who hosts sister-ITT Hub podcast Talking Net Zero. 

In a wide-ranging, engaging and lively chat we discover Sara’s ‘all-time gripe’ about ‘all-things-green and sustainable’, but they start by talking about a bottle of wine, before moving onto the controversial residents’ parking scheme in Bristol. 

Designed to encourage people out of their cars, rather than driving to within a mile of the city centre and then parking on residential streets the scheme’s introduction was the source of much angst. 

This question gives rise to the topic of forcing people to change their travel behaviour.

It seems that whatever you do in transport, it’s often just ‘shunting the problem’, reckons Sara: “It’s coastal erosion with cars!”

Local politics come into play and the challenge that metro-mayors face of four-year terms – and having to rely on a second term, and being at the mercy of shifts of change in public opinion – means that four years is not long enough to do anything in the transport sector, we discover.

Leon recalls advice he gave to London Mayor Boris Johnson, and asks if mayors are ready to make really tough decisions within the first few weeks of taking office.

This leads to a discussion about the ‘short term of everything’, the need for consistency and why ‘engineers are biting their nails’ when announcements are made.

Are we too hung up on on-street charging and is the on-street charging issue overblown, Leon asks Sara, before they chat about micro-mobility and why people on eScooters are happy. “You never see a jogger smiling,” observes Leon, while Sara explains the importance of how travel makes you feel. “Does it put a smile on your face?”

She explains the enjoyment of a journey, how underrated bus travel is for the ‘pleasure of the journey’ and why sustainable travel ‘gives you your life back’.

Is the solution for certain occasional travel car clubs? Sara and Leon swap tales about their car club experiences which include an egg, rubber gloves and an underground car park….

With a starter about rail, main course about commuter travel and dessert on the bus industry, this week’s Lunch with Leon sees him talking with career busman, author and controversial straight-talking commentator Roger Davies.

Roger sets out why transport needs ‘clean fixes now – not projects that give proclaimed benefits in the 2030s and beyond’.

He argues: “We should be concentrating on what needs to be done now, rather than grandiose schemes that deliver way into the future, if at all.”

They also debate whether home-working will lead to more off-shoring of jobs and why he believes airlines will recover quicker than rail after Covid.

The impact on  buses of what he calls the ‘higher education industry’ - due to universities being big local economic players and major buildings owners – should not be underestimated, he says.

Roger and Leon conclude by talking about the benefits of home working to local economies and why the industry has big opportunities for the integration of buses and logistics.

“Public transport is social justice. There’s never a better time to remind us nationally why we’re doing what we’re doing,” says Laura Shoaf, MD of Transport for West Midlands (TfWM) and newly-appointed Chair of the Urban Transport Group.

A planner by background, Laura has extraordinary energy and is a huge force for good for public transport internationally, as well as in the UK. 

Talking with Leon Daniels over lunch she explores what the future holds: “Every crisis has an opportunity. How we come out of this with a functioning integrated transport network that’s still affordable and reliable, is challenging in a way it’s never been challenged before.”

“We cannot afford to have a car-based recovery. We must have a green recovery,” and she sends a clear set of messages to the government.

“As an industry, we need to lobby government, saying ‘you need to make sure that in ‘building back better’ our networks are fully functioning and supported.”

They chat about what the Government’s forthcoming bus strategy might hold. Laura says she’s hoping for devolution of Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG) as “we can get better outcomes, the more funding and powers that are devolved to us.”

Highways for all: From careers to automated vehicles.

Sue Percy, CEO of the Chartered Institution of Highways and Transportation (CIHT) for past nine years, has long been Leon Daniels’ ‘go to’ person for a “sensible view on the whole highways and transportation business” and she’s also a key person for driving forward education and qualifications in this sector. Adds Leon: “She never lets me forget that our highways and transportation industry is about people.”

Over lunch they chat about their shared ambitions to get good people into our industry and she demonstrates her optimistic view about the future.

Sue talks with passion about the need to invest in people and their qualifications, to ensure that we can deliver for society – “it’s not just building a road or railway,” she says.

“The language about how we talk to young people is important – it’s about things that matter to them,” she explains.

“They’re not going to want to talk about laying the surface of a motorway, they want to talk about things that really excite them like the environment and digital, for example. And all those things, highways and transportation deliver on.”

Expanding further, she sets out a strategy: “We’ve got some fantastic role models in our sector and we need to profile them. 

“We need to stop being timid with our voice and much more vocal in this wonderful sector about the careers you can have.”

She adds that it’s about “how we talk and portray ourselves” and says that the sector needs to “make it clear that this is profession that you can access at any stage in your career, regardless of educational attainment. It’s about access for all.”

As lunch draws to a close they talk about autonomous vehicles and debate at what pace their introduction should take place.