“If it wasn’t for the ANC’s policy on the government of national unity when [late former president of Zimbabwe Robert] Mugabe had lost elections we wouldn’t have this influx of Zimbabweans,” says Maimane as he is quizzed by Sunday Times deputy editor Mike Siluma.

Zimbabwean citizens fled to SA because of economic turmoil and political violence, among other reasons, in 2007. SA had been a mediator in that country’s political conflict. 

According to census figures there were just more than a million Zimbabweans in SA in 2022.

The topic of undocumented migrants is dominating the political agenda in the run-up to the May 29 elections. Maimane proposes borders be secured and foreigners be legalised. He believes he can document foreigners in two years.

Maimane has criteria for foreigners wanting to become citizens: learn SA's laws, speak South African languages and don’t set up your own community in SA.

That’s just the tip of the wide-ranging conversation with Maimane in this instalment of the podcast. Maimane talks about a grand coalition of opposition parties; parties he can work with; solutions to crime, saying localised policing, metro police and private police should be merged; and the controversial National Health Insurance which he says is populist and timed for the election.

Don't take our word for it — listen, and share your views.

Production by: Bulelani Nonyukela.