Making Changes

Kim Figer’s husband Jon Jon died suddenly and unexpectedly, making Kim a widow at 32

Hours after her husband’s death, Kim went live on Instagram to tell the world. For years, people wondered how. How do you navigate devastation and go to work the next day?

Kim takes us through what life looked like after sudden loss — the low moments that brought her to her knees, and the unexpected miracles she saw in her life and her son’s when she finally let go. Kim’s story is a masterclass in what it means to surrender completely and see God’s guidance even in the wreckage.

Episode Timestamps

00:00               Cold Open: “Why Does It Feel Like It’s Almost Perfect?”

Hours after jonjon died, Kim went live on Instagram. And for years, I wondered why.

Now I know.

It wasn’t just about her grief. It was about everyone else who lost someone that day. A son who lost his father. A mother who lost her son. Friends who lost their friend.

Even in that moment, Kim was already surrendering.

Kim didn’t choose this change. But she chose how to respond. It wasn’t ever easy… some days she struggled, some days she found herself on her knees — but she kept responding.

Surrender over control. Prayer over panic. Gratitude over bitterness.

And in that surrender… that’s where she kept seeing the miracles.

Like Kim says, Change is an opportunity. Opportunity to seek God in every moment of your life… even the ones that break your heart.

If Kim’s story moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear that surrender isn’t giving up… it’s finally letting go and leaning on God to guide you where you need to go.

For more Making Changes, visit incmedia.org or find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

Watch: How Do Christians Respond to Suffering – https://incmedia.org/how-do-christians-respond-to-suffering/

Losing a loved one suddenly? Watch Part 4 of the CODA series, “The Year of Change” – https://incmedia.org/growing-up-coda-a-year-of-change/

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host: http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo

Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast

Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

“If you had a list of a thousand things that I would do with my life, being a minister was not even on the list.”

After finding God at Church Of Christ, joining the ministry was the last thing he wanted. Everyone kept suggesting it. He kept saying no. “There’s absolutely no way.”

Then came the overnight change. He went to sleep with zero desire for ministry. He woke up wanting to be a minister. “Literally going to sleep, not thinking about anything, waking up the next morning. I want to be a minister. What?” God changed his heart overnight.

Years later, his son Dontae would not only join the Church Of Christ, but follow him into the ministry, something Brother Barry never planned.

This is what happens when God rewrites your plans.

If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, make sure to press pause and go back to part one.

Episode Timestamps

00:00               Cold Open: “It Wasn’t Even on the List”

Sitting across from him today, watching him tear up over that video from his son, I realized Brother Barry’s story was not just about a seeker finally finding his answer.

It’s about what happens when you let God change you. Because the changes we make don’t just affect us. They ripple out to everyone watching. Our kids. Our families. People we don’t even know are paying attention.

And maybe that’s what we can all learn from Brother Barry’s story. We don’t get to see the full picture of what God is doing. We just have to trust that wherever He guides us, even when it makes zero sense, even when it’s to a place that wasn’t on our list of a thousand things, He’s writing a story bigger than we can imagine.

If Brother Barry’s story moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. And remember, your change doesn’t just uplift you. It uplifts everyone watching.

For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Watch https://incmedia.org/stories-of-faith/

Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak.

Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo

Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast

Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Brother Barry has had many labels in his life. Son. Jamaican. New Yorker. Navy man. Husband. Dad.  Minister of the Gospel. Host of Face the Truth. But if there’s one label that changed everything else. it’s seeker.

This is the story most people don’t know about Brother Barry… the journey of a seeker who was looking for truth in all the wrong places, until God led him to the one place he did his best to avoid.

Episode Timestamps

00:00               A Seeker’s Opening: “Could This Be It?”

Thirty-five years later, Brother Barry still tears up thinking about that first Bible study, the night he couldn’t sleep because he thought: could this be it? After years of a chaotic childhood, unstable homes, and churches that left him more confused than when he walked in, God led him right to the door he’d been passing every single day.

But what he didn’t know was that his story was just beginning.

Because God had a calling waiting for him that would blow up every plan he had for his young life. Now, if Brother Barry’s story spoke to you, or if you know someone who’s in the middle of their own secret journey, share this with them.

For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC Media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo

Watch Want to Find God? https://incmedia.org/want-to-find-god/

Interested in attending a Bible study in the Church Of Christ? Set a time to speak.

Connect with the Making Changes Host http://instagram.com/aliwgarciapablo

Rate & Review: Spotify and Apple Podcasts

Follow the show: Instagram http://instagram.com/makingchangespodcast

Visit our website: incmedia.org/making-changes

Brother Ronnie David:  How do you tell your mom and dad you’re not going to be with them anymore? We both moved up closer to the chapel in Atlanta, but now, it’s not a two hour drive. It’s a 20 hour flight now, if you want to see us.

Aliw Pablo: It’s part 2 of our episode with Brother Ronnie and Rowel David, who are CODA, or also known as Child of Deaf Adults. In this episode, we’ll be talking about growing up CODA and how that prepared them to be later called into the holy ministry. We’ll find out how they came to the difficult decision of leaving their parents, who are both deaf, behind.

Brother Ronnie David: I was shaking. What I said was, you know, we’re going to be leaving, because we’re gonna go study in the ministry now. And I braced myself because, you know, I know this was a shock for her. We never talked to her about it. She didn’t even talk to us about it. It was never discussed it, we’re going to do this.

Aliw Pablo: You’re listening to Making Changes, a show about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by your side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.  Today’s episode is perhaps one of the biggest life changes we’ve ever talked about.

Brother Ronnie David: Her words will be etched in my mind forever, I will never forget. Right, Rowell?

Aliw Pablo: Two young men who have been their parents interpreters all their lives—at the bank, in school, in the workplace, at Church.  Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel have been their parents’ advocates and liaison to the world. But despite their deep love for their parents, they decided to answer God’s call to enter  the holy ministry. The stories they will share may shock us but certainly inspire us, on what happens when we have a change in perspective. What happens when we put our fears away, when we replace fear with confidence and trust in God instead, so that we can make room in our lives for His plans? Let’s listen in.

[Show open]

Aliw Pablo: When would you say that you both started to feel the calling into the ministry?

Brother Ronnie David: There was one worship service I do remember. And the minister did say one thing that really stuck out to me, which was, “Even if you’re thinking about it, that’s already a sign.” And I remember after the worship service saying, “I’m thinking about it right now. But does that mean it’s a sign, like, should I join now? There [were] three other brothers in the local [congregation] who are talking about it. And our resident minister announced it after the worship service: “If there are any brothers who would like to join, please meet us in the sanctuary this afternoon at three o’clock,” something like that.

But I do remember that three o’clock though. All I remember is when I entered that door, I saw my brother on the other side. And you know what? At that point, I wasn’t surprised he wanted to join. But there’s a reason why when the minister mentioned years before, that if you’re thinking about the ministry, it’s a sign already, until now, until that point, why I didn’t join right away, it was because I was kind of worried about my parents.

I mean, they are good and faithful, but like we mentioned earlier, they didn’t have the best kind of jobs, I’ll admit. It was very labor intensive. They spent a lot of hours just to be able to make ends meet. We didn’t have the best life. I’m not going to sugarcoat that; it was really rough. There were hard times. In my mind, I was like, “Okay, me and my brother, this is where we[‘ve] got to have the comeback story. We’re going to get great jobs, you’re going to provide them a great life, and, and we’re all going to have big houses. And we’re going to tell them, “Mom and dad, we did this for you. We love you, you know.”

But that Sunday at 3 p.m., that was kind of a different idea at that point. “Okay, now who’s going to take care of mom and dad?” I remember looking at my brother. We didn’t say anything, though. We joined. The minister had us sign a form, or we all prayed after. And I just remember, me and my brother already discussing, “We’re not going to tell Mom and Dad yet.” I don’t know. Why didn’t you want to tell them, Rowell?

Brother Rowel David: I think for me, personally, I think it was because who knows if this is even going to go through. And who knows if we would even get approved? You know, this is just a pre-application. And so because, just like what he said, we were worried [about] who’s going to take care of mom and dad. I’m sure you know, in a regular person’s (way of) thinking they would—as parents who are deaf, who depend on their children, they would probably think the same thing. And so for us, it’s like, why would I want to put them through the worry? this may not even go through. So it’s like, you know, I guess it was one of those times where it’s like, we’ll cross that bridge when it comes.

Aliw Pablo:  But you both hadn’t talked to each other at all about the ministry until you saw each other at the chapel that day?

Brother Ronnie David: Oh, yeah, no way. We never spoke about it at all.

Aliw Pablo: So, tell us about how your parents found out that you’re both joining the ministry.

Brother Ronnie David: Because they announced it after the worship service one day. They said, “Okay, through the guidance of the Church Administration, these brothers were accepted to join the holy ministry.” And they mentioned all the names. And you know what, for a local of less, a little less than 100 people at that time, a little less than 100 brethren, to send five brothers at one time. I was pretty…it was a lot.  You could look around, their parents crying, you know, aunties, uncles, friends, cousins. It was super emotional. The only ones who didn’t feel it were probably my parents.

Because they’re looking around wondering, why is everybody crying? Did something bad happen? I remember telling, like, the others, please do not say anything to our parents. Because it was still in my mind, who was going to take care of them? I don’t want to… I didn’t even want to think about what we’re going to say to them. They eventually (found) out. I remember we were in the car, and my mother did bring it up. She said, “Is it true what I heard guys? Is it true you both went to join the ministry?” And, honestly, I think we were both speechless. We didn’t know what to say.

Brother Rowel David: If you remember I turned around, I  looked at you and I said, “Did you tell her?” And then you turned around, you looked at me, and you said, “No. Did you tell her?” You know, and I don’t know for me, because (she’s) deaf, of course, she didn’t hear us say that. But we were trying to have a conversation, we’re trying to get our stories straight so that we can figure out how we can tell her.

Brother Ronnie David: Then there was a mom on the side, “I know you guys are talking to each other. I see you.”

Aliw: I see you talking about me.

Brother Ronnie David: But I’ll tell you what though, it was just kind of… it was quiet. Because how do you tell your mom and dad you’re not going to be with them anymore? How do you do that? Especially when we’re young, I mean, I think I was still young. I was like, 21, my brother was 19.

And I do remember, like, I was shaking. I did tell her. I said, “Mom, Dad, so…” I didn’t apologize, what I said was, “You know, we’re going to be leaving, because we’re gonna go study in the ministry now.” And I braced myself because, you know, I know this was a shock for her. We didn’t…we never talked to her about it. She never even talked to us about it. It was never discussed that we were going to do this. But her words will be etched in my mind forever. I will never forget, right, Rowell? She said, “You know, I always prayed for this. I always hoped you guys would join.”

Brother Rowel David: I think at that point, it really, I’m sure I can say this on behalf of both of us that—that was the moment for us where it’s like, “If this is what they want, what’s going to stop us?” You know, what… there should be nothing that would stop us, you know. I remember we had a conversarsation. We were sitting there in the sanctuary and we were talking to ourselves and we were saying, you know, “Why did we even think that we could take care of them better than God?” Like, we were so worried about who would take care of mom and dad, you know. We’re trying to go to the ministry, and we forgot what they have been teaching us our entire life, which is that God is always watching you, and God will always take care of you. And so if they were taking care of them, if God was taking care of them, before we even came into the picture, what makes us think that they won’t be able to do it without us?

Brother Ronniel David: You have to keep in mind, because the situation at the time was, we were both working not only to take care of ourselves, but we’re also still taking care of our parents. I mean, I even quit school, because I couldn’t afford going to school and taking care of the family, as well. So I took off time from school just to focus on working and saving a little bit more money. And at that age, too, you can only imagine how it’s unfortunate, but I (didn’t) remember this simple thing that our parents have been teaching us all our lives, which is that God is there, and God will take care of you, and trust in God.

Brother Rowel David:  And that and that was always our answer. That was always our answer when people would say that, you know, who’s going to take care of your parents when you guys leave? We would always say, “God will. God will take care of them.” Because that’s what they taught us. That’s what they taught us and it’s the truth. It’s the truth. We’re not going to let anything stop us.

Aliw Pablo: Getting to the Philippines and studying in the  ministry was one thing, but their trials and challenges have just begun.

Brother Ronnie David: If I could just put it in perspective, when I came back from my first year in the Philippines, coming back, I did lose a good bit of weight. I did. Me and my brother both did. And you know, a parent’s intuition. They know what’s wrong. And they would ask us after that first year, okay. After that first year, we came back and they saw how we looked. People asked us, “What do you guys do? Do you exercise?” We’re like, “Yes! Diet, exercise—it’s amazing.” My mother would ask us, “What happened? Why did you guys lose so much weight? Why did you get so skinny now?” And she looked at me and I told her, “We’re running a lot, Mom. You know, basketball.” And she said, “No, really. What happened?”

Aliw Pablo: The truth is, it wasn’t too much basketball that caused both brothers to lose so much weight. With very limited allowance with money they had saved while working prior to joining, they lived off of 5 pieces of bread everyday—which was about 30 pesos a day, equivalent to a little more than 50 cents in US currency.

They never told their parents the kind of diet they were on, but a mother’s intuition is always right. They were surprised that one day, they began to get an allowance from their mom and dad. Remember, their parents had very humble jobs. Their mom did the laundry at the local hospital and their dad was a furniture mover. So, being able to send their sons extra money was definitely a surprise.

Brother Ronnie David: We did so much better. Eating wasn’t a problem. And then we get our tickets to go home, and we get to the airport. And we’re on our way home. I’m so excited to see my bedroom, you know, to see my old stuff. And we’re driving, we’re driving, and then we miss the exit. And I wonder, “Mom, Dad, where are we going? You missed the exit, home is this way. And my mom said, “oh no, no, we’re going to go to your Tita’s first. We’re going to your Aunty’s.” I said, “Alright.” So we get to our Aunty’s house, and I see my mom’s stuff there. And I said, “Mom and Dad, why (are) your stuff here? Why is our stuff here?” And it was then when my mom told me, she said, “We want you guys to succeed in the Ministry. We sold the house. We sold the house so you guys can succeed. You’ll be ministers one day.”

Aliw Pablo: To the brothers’ shock, their parents sold their home—gave up the only thing they owned, all for the sake of their sons’ being able to finish studying  in the ministry.

Brother Ronnie David: And right there I was thinking, “Mom, dad, what about your life?” And you know my mom, she’s like a broken record. She wouldn’t stop saying it, “You know, we trust in God, right? We trust in God.” I told her, “Mom, it’s only our first year in the ministry. There are 3 or 4 more years left, mom. What are you doing? Why would you guys sell your home for us? You moved in with our Tita, you don’t have our own home, anymore. Why would you do that?” And they said, “Because it’s more important that you guys finish your studies and become ministers. Because maybe in the future, you can help (other) deaf people, too.

Aliw Pablo: Their parents Ramon and Raquel David had sold their house to live with relatives to support their sons in the ministry. But their sacrifices didn’t stop there. Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel found out later that there were months that their parents skipped out on paying some bills just so that they would have something to send to their sons.

Brother Rowel David: When it came to us trying to finish the ministry, that’s all the more, they did everything we could just so that we would be able to finish.

Aliw Pablo: So, in the end, they took care of you, more than you being worried about taking care of them.

With God’s help, their parents’ prayers were answered. Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel David were both ordained in the holy ministry at the same time in Rome, Italy in July 2019. All their parents’ sacrifices paid off. Both their sons are now ministers of the gospel. As of this recording, Brother Ronnie is the resident minister in the local congregation of Bellmore, New York and Brother Rowel is the resident minister in  Newport News, Virginia.

Aliw Pablo: When you look at your childhood, when you look at your mom’s reminders, ‘God’s eyes are big,’ when you look at everything you’ve been through, how was it a preparation for what God already had in store for you today?

Brother Ronnie David: I think, number one is, only God could plan out something like that. Like, I’m 30 years old right now. And I look back every year, like, only God could have planned out something from so early on. Because like me and my brother had been saying, the values we learned as children, not even understanding the worship service lessons, like, that young, until now have been the same. It’s always been the same. We haven’t changed.

My parents, I could count on my hand, how many times they actually gave us life lessons, verbally or through sign language. They never really talked about it like that, or spoke about it that much. It was just they showed us the way they lived. And then that’s how we followed.

Brother Rowel David:  I think even, even outside of that, you know, with even just dealing with life, with everything that we went through. You know, we saw the finances of our parents growing up, we knew how to budget here and there, even when it came to that aspect….

Aliw Pablo: It’s important that this is the first time these two brothers had ever sat down like this to tell their life story of growing up CODA and growing up with very little. When they look back at their life and what it took for them to get to where they are today, making sacrifices was all they knew. As they reminisce, more and more stories pop up in their minds.  They took us back to the time when they moved out of their home to find better jobs. Remember, they grew up in a small town in Milledgeville,  Georgia, about 2 hours from the local congregation of South Atlanta. There weren’t much job opportunities there for them in their small town, so they moved closer to the city to be able to help their parents out financially.

Brother Rowel David: When we moved out after you know after my brother graduated, we were both on our own. Well, you know, after I graduated there were times when we would guard the chapel for five, six nights out of the week.

Brother Ronnie David: We never mentioned that to our parents, we had nowhere to go. We never mentioned when we got our apartment. Yeah, we got our apartment months later.

Aliw Pablo: Wow! So you lived out of your cars, and just on people’s couches, and guarding?

Brother Rowel David: We did. And then we were given a job. With every blessing we got, we always changed our prayer to, “I’m going to do more.” So, for example, in the beginning, we were guarding the chapel because it only felt right. And then we feel—and then God blessed us with the job. Because of that, you know, we had a job, we had more money, we were able to do more. So we would dedicate more time to God. We would, you know, take up more offices in the Church.

Brother Ronnie David: I thought we were living our best life. Going to Church all the time, going to activities, to choir practice, I loved it.

Brother Rowel David: And we would have conversations and we’re like, you know, it’s crazy how we’re able to do so much for the Church now. You know, that’s because growing up, our parents taught us so much, that that’s where we should be, we have to do everything for God.

Brother Ronnie David: I knew God was always watching us. Always. At 21 years old, still. God is always watching.

Aliw Pablo: That’s exactly what I was going to say, you know. A lot of people would have been like, “I’m finally out of the house.” You know, “I don’t have the responsibility to,” you know, “take care of my parents, because I’m not in the same house with them anymore. I’m free, I have freedom. Let me just go live my life for once.”

Because really, even though by the time you both moved out, you were adults, you were playing the role of an adult even as early as seven or eight. So, a lot of people would have been like, it’s time for me, especially you’re two young men, you know. But what was it? What was it?

Brother Rowel David: God gave us a lot of experiences throughout our life to where we learned from them. And I know that you mentioned, you know, our entire life, we were always giving, giving, giving. Because that’s what we, you know, that’s what we had to do. But I feel like it’s because of some of those experiences, that we had to experience firsthand. It only felt right, you know. A personal experience that I had…and I remember I was getting ready for school. And my mother, she called me, she goes, “Hey, I’m going to go get some gas. Do you want to come with me?” And you know, we pump gas, we go and try to go pay. And I see her, she’s up the counter. She’s counting these Jolly Rancher pieces. She goes 1,2,3…10. And I said, “Mom, you shouldn’t be eating that. That’s bad for your teeth.” And she goes, “No, this is what I’m going to eat today.” And I said, “Why? Why?”  And she goes, “We don’t have any money.  And so I’d rather buy 10 of these for $1.00 and eat one every hour, so that I could be okay, rather than just buying one thing with $1 and only eating that once, and then be hungry a few hours later.”

For me that left me speechless. I go to school, I get free lunch, I eat. She even makes sure I eat before I go to school. When I get home, there’s something there that I can eat. And then she’s eating that all day.

I remember (when) I got home, I just cried my eyes out. Because I’m thinking, I’m like, you know, they’re doing so much just to take care of us. But again, those experiences like that really taught us and really humbled us to where even if I’m 18 and I’m leaving the house to go get a job, this still is not about me. It’s not about me, it’s about them. Those experiences really, really molded us to have that mindset.

Aliw Pablo: At any point in your childhood, especially, I would think in your teenage years, did you ever think, “Gosh, why? How did I end up with this card?” You know, like, “How did I end up with so many challenges? Why couldn’t I just have had “normal parents”? Why couldn’t I just have had a life where we didn’t struggle so much.”  “Why me, God? Why us, God?”

Brother Ronnie David: All the time.

Brother Rowel David:  Many times. Yeah.

Brother Ronnie David:  You know what? I’m not not even going to sugarcoat it. There were times I would tell my mother that. “Why us, mom? Why do you have to work at a job like this and only make this much? Why does dad have to work at this place and only make this much, and we only have this much. And this is all we have?” You know, it’s really sad because, I mean, being the older one, I had no one to look up to.

Because number one, I didn’t know anyone else who had deaf parents. I didn’t know how to handle the situation. Number two, I didn’t know how to react when there were times when I saw how some of our friends were living.  They have things, they have certain… or they can do certain things with their families. And we never did that. And I remember explicitly, you know, telling my parents, you know, “Mom, Dad, I’m not going to be like you guys, when I grow up. I wouldn’t have a real job.” I’d say stuff like that. “I’m going to have a good job, I’m going to be able to do things. And not like what you guys are doing.” And you know what?  I will never…Until now, I still feel horrible about that. Because my mom would always just say, “You know, we’re just trying. We’re still trying to take care of you guys.”

Aliw Pablo: So the show is called Making Changes. What do you think was the biggest change in perspective that you had to make, that your situation basically inspired you to make? To go from, “Why us to why not us?”

Brother Rowel David: Looking back, I think one of the main things that I learned was, and our Executive Minister says it all the time, “Everything happens for a reason. God has a plan. Everything happens for a reason. You just have to trust that plan.”

And so growing up, again, after the fact of going through everything, you realize, I had to go through that. You know, something hard comes through, something difficult. And the first thing you’re going to think of is, “Okay, what’s God wanting me to learn here?” Because that is just a stepping stone or a stepping block towards the next you that you can be, or the next you that you will be, that God wants you to be. And so, you know, me realizing that after the fact that that was the change from me. Understanding, you know, even though coming from a silent family, wherein your parents don’t talk, you know, coming from that situation, having to learn, you know, and understand how it is to be someone who is hearing, and understand how it is to be someone who’s not hearing. And then even applying that to everything else that happened in our life. It really does, it makes everything so much clearer when you’re able to know and understand that, “Hey, this is just something that I have to go through.”

It’s like what the Bible says that the problem you’re going through is a problem that everyone else is going through as well. And no one is, just to put it very bluntly, no one’s special here. Everyone has cards that they’re dealt, and you just have to find a way through it. And honestly, the way that you get through it is by trusting in God, because He’s the only way that we can get through. And I feel like that was the biggest thing that I took growing up.

Aliw Pablo: Brother Ronnie?

Brother Ronnie David:  But, honestly, one thing I would say is just do your best to understand what’s happening. You know, we live in a time now where even 30 second YouTube clips are too long. Sometimes people have to scroll over, right? They can’t even wait for it to finish. We live in a time now where everything’s moving. Especially, it’s so crazy for me to think that I’m not part of the younger generation anymore. I’m getting up there now.

And I look at some of the younger ones, I’m like, “Wow, man. Your focus is on so many things at one time. But is your focus on Church still there? Is that still a big focus for them? And I think after all these years, I really came to an understanding that we have to understand or we have to not take for granted what we have right here. Give it that 30 seconds, give it that minute, give it that whole lifetime, give all your time to it. And then we’ll get it. Because, like for us, when you’re going through each phase of what was happening at that time, each phase of hardships at school, hardships at work, hardships of being away from the family and even going to the Philippines and some struggles there.  At the time, you don’t understand it. But you  just got to… just keep going, just keep going through it. And in return, for my parents, to connect there, we may not understand what they’re telling us at the moment. Because I would have never known that my parents are teaching us: prepare early for worship service. I would have never known my parents are teaching me, to focus on the worship service. I would have never understood that my parents are teaching me: Church first. Sacrifice. I would have never understood that my parents are teaching me– do what you can for God, especially, when they made a huge sacrifice in their lives for us.

Listen whenever our Executive Minister’s teaching, and thinking, it’s not the same thing. There’s always a purpose to what’s being taught to us right here. Then, the understanding comes, and then you realize, wow, I almost wasted that. So,  if there’s one thing I could say is just really try to understand everything that’s happening now, because God wants it to happen for you. And God isn’t a God of confusion, he’s a God of peace. He’s really trying to get us there. We know where our true peace is.

Aliw Pablo: How have your struggles and your challenges helped you to become the kind of minister you are today…when you speak to families, when you speak to parents, to kids who are having challenges with their parents?

Brother Rowel David: I would say going through all of that helps us relate to them even more. You know, for example, we may have brethren that live an hour and a half, two hours away from the chapel. And they tell me that they’re like, you know, it’s hard. It’s tough. And because I went through that, I’m able to say, I understand what you’re going through, and I understand the struggle. But it’s just like what the Bible says, those weak moments of ours, those are the times wherein God’s power can be shown to us and so, you know, the fact that we were able to have those experiences in our life and we were able to, they feel those things…

Brother Ronniel David: It was a couple years ago, I had a sister approach me say, she really opened up about her parents. And she was like, “Brother, it’s like, my parents aren’t listening to me.”

And I said, you don’t say. I’m glad we’re talking right now, sister. She told me, she feels like her parents have a disconnect. I was telling her, you know, you need to really give it some time, give it some time.  Your parents lived an entire life before you came into the picture. I’m sure they’ve got something good to say. I’m sure they have some kind of life experience to give you, just give it some time. And I think that’s what it was with our parents too. God’s plan does work out.

Aliw Pablo: Now that you…when you..you know, Brother Ronnie, you talked about that one time you’re in high school and there was a guest, and you couldn’t sign well enough for them to be able to understand. And now that you are a minister, and you know how to sign and what does it feel like now when you do preach? Or do you share the gospel, preach the gospel, with those who are deaf and are just now being introduced to the Church?

Brother Ronnie David: When my brother and I first got into the school for ministry. Back then it’s called the College of Evangelical Ministry. Through God’s grace, we were blessed to be able to receive assignments in the worship service to be able to interpret for the deaf in the different local congregations within the district at the time. As we said, it was Filipino sign language that we mostly knew that was our home sign language. So in America, that didn’t fly. But when we were in the Philippines, we were the most fluent when it came to sign language.

Praise be to God, we were able to baptize a few, we’re able to get the community. Again, praise be to God, honestly. Because at that point, I’m wondering why are we able to work at something so fast and so efficiently? It’s only because of our upbringing,

Brother Rowel David:  I remember specific moments, there would be times when, you know, we would have Bible studies with the deaf. And then they would go through certain problems. And this is how great our mother is. Is that for me personally, when I couldn’t figure out what to say, honestly, I would text my mom and I would say, “Hey mom, can you describe real quick?”  I know my brother would agree if my mother could speak, she would say a lot.

Brother Ronnie David: She did that at a deaf school. I won’t forget it. And we try to talk to the teacher. She had a classroom full of students who were like, “Yeah, we’re having this evangelical mission, this Bible study, study of God’s words. We’re going to be interpreting.  Could we invite you all?” And they’d be like “Ahh, we’ll see, we’ll see.” And so I looked at my brother, my brother looked at me. Alright, let’s call mom.

She did her thing.

Brother Rowel David: And the whole class ended up going.

Aliw Pablo: Wow, this is in the Philippines?

Brother Rowel David: Yes.

Aliw Pablo: She was part of your missionary work on the other side of the world.

Brother Rowel David: Always. Always.

Aliw Pablo: It must just thrill your parents, that when they see that from video streams, that sign language is a staple. Like it just from waiting for 18 years and 95th anniversary. That to see now that you know, when the Executive Minister speaks, he makes sure that they can understand as well.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, they could easily be like, thank God, they’re not, they could easily be that person that says, “Oh, we should have already had this. Why didn’t they do this earlier?” But all they say is, “Thank God. We’re so thankful that the Church Administration is thinking about us. We’re so thankful that God’s blessing us with this.”

They never complained. Even back then right, Row? They never complained that there was no sign language, never complained. There wasn’t an interpreter when we were kids, up until when it became more prominent. They never complained.

Brother Rowel David: Actually, to go along with that, there were deaf people that our parents met and they will try to bring them in. Those deaf people would say how come your church doesn’t have interpreters? How come your church doesn’t have translators?” You know, “How come?” You know, “What about us?” And what our parents would always say is, “It’ll happen, just not right now.” You know, “It’s not yet time for it.”

Aliw: So they would bring guests, deaf guests, to evangelical missions, to Bible studies, knowing full well there was no translator. But they just wanted the guests to experience it.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, it’s funny, they brought hearing people too. My mother brought hearing people too to our chapel two hours away from home. That’s something else. I just remember that.  You remember that, Row.

Brother Rowel David: Until now, until now, she’ll message me from time to time. And she’ll say you write to me a note, I’m trying to invite my co-worker to our Bible study, tell her that I could easily go to her house, or she could come to my house and, and I’ll just connect on our laptop to their TV, and it’ll be WebEx and then tell them that I’ll feed them to dinner. And, and you know, and so, of course, you know, I’m going to type out the text message so that she can copy it on paper, and then give it to her co-worker. So yeah, it’s not they, they don’t allow that disability to stop them at all.

Brother Ronnie David: There have been times when we were younger, back in high school, people come to the door. “Hello, we’d like to introduce you to our Church,” right. And would show videos, would show a magazine. My mom would say, “That’s so nice. Wait, have you seen this (God’s Message)?”

Aliw Pablo: She’s always ready.

Brother Rowel David:  Yes. They would even come in. And she’s trying, you know, me and my brother were young. We’re shy. You know, we were not yet that strong to talk about that. And, but she wouldn’t stop. She would get to the point where they’re trying to leave. And she wouldn’t let them, she’s like, No, no, no, let me feed you first so you can finish reading this. But you know.

Aliw Pablo: Wow. Your mom is a firecracker. I would love to meet her. I mean, that is the talk about no excuses to anything, anything in life. What advice would you give to families who may have someone who is deaf, and are struggling right now and probably aren’t able to see the light at the end of the tunnel for now? What would be your advice to them?

Brother Ronnie David: Number one is, above all, is–pray, pray, and pray with them. Make sure that they’re with you. Because from experience you already know. I didn’t understand why my mother was trying to pray for us. I didn’t understand why they felt so much about it, why it was such a big deal for them. But number one, I’d say pray. Honestly, you don’t, you don’t even have to understand at the moment. This as long as that starts up and begins. When God starts working, He starts working.

Brother Rowel David: Really lead by example, and take advantage of all of the things that the Church Administration is giving us. You know, not just, you know, of course, when it comes to the different tools that we have for sign language, and whatnot, but even just the simple as the activities that are being done. You know, for example, if the children are deaf, parents, you know, bring them to those activities, show them because, as a young child, you know, they may not be able to do like what my parents did, and sit in a worship service for an hour in complete silence, not exactly the point. But to be able to show them that the chapel or the place of worship is a fun place to be, and that there are people there who are willing to take care of you, even though they’re not your family, that plays a huge part, and will be a huge impact in the life of a child, especially for one that’s deaf, because being deaf, you feel you already feel so, so much on the outside of everyone.

That’s what the families need. And that’s why the Church Administration has all of those activities in the Christian family organization. It’s to keep the brethren and the children, you know, always remembering that this is where they need to be.

Aliw Pablo: Through their experiences, Bro Ronnie and Brother Rowel are actively involved with the Christian Society for the Deaf or CSD – a group that the Church Administration established to help the deaf community. There’s even an app that can be downloaded for anyone who wants to learn how to sign.

Brother Ronnie David: Everybody can learn sign language, everybody can learn this language.  And it’s not a waste of your time, you’re learning it, cause it’s definitely going to help someone down the road. It’s definitely going to help someone.  You want an example, our parents, you know, when me and my brother left them, that was two less people they could actually talk to in this life. But that’s not an issue anymore.

There’s so many brethren in the Church that can talk to you now, because there’s so many brethren wanting to learn sign language and learn the culture of it and get more involved. And if more people are more involved, that means more opportunity for those who are deaf, who maybe don’t have the same upbringing or the same kind of situation my brother and I had, they would be more involved with Church too.

Aliw Pablo: We know that you’re busy and thank you so much for taking this time to be able to just sit down and tell us your story. I have to say, this is one of the best stories I’ve ever heard. So thank God for allowing our paths to cross and praise God for giving you such a beautiful life script, right? To be able to share it now years later with so many families, and so many kids and parents, and also tribute to your parents for being able to instill the kind of faith that they were that they did to you. And now you’re helping the Church in such a big way. So thank you so much, brothers.

David Brothers: Thank you, Sister Aliw. Thank you so much.

Aliw Pablo: What a story…what a life, huh? Special thanks to Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel David for sharing their stories, their life lessons and essentially everything  they learned from their  parents with us. If there’s one thing that really stuck out to me in hearing all of their stories – it’s this.  Sometimes, it’s not always the words that we tell our kids, it really is our actions. It’s the consistent behavior and habits they see growing up that will have the biggest impact.

If you’d like to see photos of the David family and the full video interview of this episode, log on to incmedia.org/making-changes. Special thanks to Rose Guillermo for the ASL interpretation for this episode.

If you enjoyed this episode, please, share it with anyone and everyone – there are so many nuggets of wisdom in these last 2 episodes that we can all take with us while we do this thing called “life.”

Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes on whatever platform you’re listening from – Google, Apple podcasts, Spotify or the INC Media app. And we would truly appreciate it if you could leave us a review!

Thanks for listening and may your change, uplift you!

[Show close]

Brother Ronnie: And you know what, there is even one specific moment that I remember which is, the minister is giving—he’s wrapping up the lesson, he’s getting very spiritual; he’s giving the bayubay (advice).  Brethren are feeling it. And I look over at my mother, and I kid you not, she’s crying. And I don’t know why. I’m thinking, what are you hearing? What are you listening to? What were you getting from this? 

Brother Rowel: You know, again as a child…what would go through my mind is, you can’t even hear, you know. Why is this important to you? Why does it matter? You can’t even hear. But as a child seeing that, and then finally being able to understand—it’s like, ok, let me stay awake maybe there’s a reason why. 

Aliw: When I first learned about Brother Ronnie and Rowel David’s story, right away, I had so many questions. I was just so curious about how they grew up and became the people that they are now. You see, they’re brothers who are both CODA, an acronym for Child of Deaf Adults. They grew up in Georgia and are now both ministers of the gospel in the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ. 

Brother Ronnie: I remember asking her afterwards, like, Oh, why are you crying?

What did the minister say? And she said, “I don’t know, but I felt something. I was feeling something. And it made me feel like crying.”

Brother Rowel: When me and my brother would talk about it, we would always say they really did worship, depending on the Holy Spirit, you know.

Brother Ronnie: It’s one of the biggest lessons we ever got from them. And again, they never explained that to us. They never said anything about the Holy Spirit. They never put that into words but it’s based on the way they live, that’s how we learned it. 

Aliw: From INC Media Audio, you’re listening to Making Changes, I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo. Today’s episode format is a bit different. This is a 2-part series where we’ll sit down with Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel to see what it was like to grow up CODA and how that shaped their faith. This 2 part episode is so layered as you will see and feel. It’s about the struggle of growing up CODA, love for their parents but also the frustrations from the perspective of two young boys whose lives were filled  with setbacks and struggle.   Let’s listen in…

Aliw: Hi, Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us. 

Brother Rowel: Thank you, Sister Aliw.

Brother Ronnie: Thank you so much.

Aliw:  We’ll start off by asking, what would you say? At what age, would you say that you realized that your home life was a little bit different from the rest of your friends in school or wherever?

Brother Ronnie: It didn’t really hit me all at one time. It just kind of, eventually, I understood that our situation growing up is very different from other people. Like, for example, when we would go to the grocery store, and we’d help our mom pay. You know, we’d give the cashier the money, or if we have questions, we would talk for our mother. Same thing with going to the doctor’s office—my mother would want to tell the doctor something and the doctor tells us to tell our mom and we’d tell our mom. And then even when he came to school. The teachers are telling us okay, I need to talk to your parents, which have home phone numbers, I can call them. They call us later on, and I’m the one answering the phone. So, it was a gradual thing, I don’t think it was a specific age, but, the longer or the more we grew up with our parents the more I realized it really is different from other people.

Bro. Rowel: For me growing up, I thought that everyone did sign language to their parents. I mean, yes, we had aunts and we had uncles, we had grandma and grandpa that we would speak to but for some reason, you know, of course, the mind of a child growing up, you just think, yeah, but when it comes to your parent, you do sign language. And so, you know, finding that out, noticing that about the other children, how they would speak to their parents, you know, it obviously showed me that it was different. But you know, the crazy thing

is that, yeah, I noticed it. But then right after it was like, okay, we’re just different, you know? My situation isn’t like their situation.

Bro. Ronnie: It’s funny because you kind of forget you’re doing sign language. You don’t even know you’re doing sign language anymore. We could literally just be talking to our parents and switch over to just talking or voicing out our opinions or whatever. It’s all one language at one point so…

Aliw:  So, let’s back up a bit and give you a bit of their background. Their parents, Raquel and Ramon, were both born deaf, they met in the Philippines, got married in the Church and their mother migrated to Georgia first where the rest of her family were. We all know how hard it is to start a new life in a new country but how much more not being able to hear. Their parents both understood and signed Filipino Sign Language, but not ASL or American Sign Language. The brothers have some memory of what it was like for their mom. 

Brother Ronnie: And back then, you know, websites, chat rooms, or Skype, all that didn’t exist. So, she really just kind of stayed at home. Her life was more like just observing things. It wasn’t really a community, (or) communicating with people, socializing, or talking to people, she would meet deaf people along the way, here and there. But there was still that lack of communication because they could never keep up with each other. They didn’t have phones or whatever, she didn’t have her own cell phone at the time. So, it was more on her just watching and looking, just waiting. My father…he came along a couple of years later on…

Brother Rowel:

My parents, when it comes to them, they’re—a very good trait they have is that they’re able to adapt to a lot of people, a lot of situations, and be able to find their way through. For example, our mother, she may be speaking with someone, and they don’t know sign language, but she’ll find a way to get her point across. It wasn’t until, of course, me and my brother, (when) we came along, that’s when she started using us just to make it easier. But even before then, yes, she had our aunt, our uncles and our grandparents, but if they have to do something, they would find a way to be able to (get) by.

Aliw: So, would your mom write what she needed to say? And then just show it to people?

Brother Ronnie: Exactly. She always had a paper and pen on her. Here’s a crazy experience she had. I actually remember her telling me about this. So, I’m the firstborn. And my mother—she wanted to go visit my father back in the Philippines again. She traveled to the Philippines by herself. You know, going into an airport with me, talking to the stewardess, trying to find out what her gate is. And you know how hectic an airport can be…

Aliw: Right! 

Brother Ronnie:… And going transferring from this flight to this flight. And still, until now, it gets me, how was she able to do that? I mean, she didn’t have a cell phone. She didn’t have a—she didn’t text anybody. Because she was able to get to the airport there in the Philippines and still from there, find my family without a phone or anything.

Aliw: Yes, that—just finding those that will pick you up is so hard with the crowds of people. 

Aliw: So growing up, you saw that your parents, your mom, specifically, never used her disability as an excuse.

Brother Rowel: Even though after, you know, that process of finally understanding that they’re different. Even after that, she would always tell us, “No, I’m normal. I’m normal, I just can’t hear.” That’s what she would always tell us. 

Brother Ronnie: It’s funny even until now, I don’t think she would consider that as a disability.

Brother Ronnie:  So, she would teach us the normal things like drink water, or go clean, you know, clean the dishes, or go home apples, stuff like that. My brother’s favorite: food, you know, stuff like that. But it’s funny because my aunt’s, my uncle’s, I want to say, they don’t really know sign language like that. I want to say they don’t really know that well, but

they can all talk, they can all fight, they can all laugh, they can do everything like regular siblings.

Aliw: Their parents were simple people with humble but demanding jobs in the small town of Milledgeville, Georgia. Their dad worked as a furniture mover; their mom, she worked at the local hospital cleaning clothes. But both parents, despite being deaf and couldn’t speak, made sure their two boys were raised well. 

Aliw: Okay, so when you are in , as little boys, you know, how were you disciplined as little kids 

with you know, most parents would yell, they’d get mad? What was that for you?

Bro. Rowel:  I’d say it’s very, you know, it’s one thing to get loud. Especially as a kid, it’s one thing to hear your parents get loud, but to see it, like to actually see it because they’re

all, it’s all visual with them. It’s all facial expressions. And so when they’re mad, like you could you could put a wall in front of us. And you could tell by our voice, you’re mad, but then seeing it face to face? Oh, it’s scary. It is. But you know, I will say this, you know, not trying, you know—of course, we weren’t angels growing up, we were boys growing up playing around here and there. But I’d like to say that she didn’t—both my mother and our father—they didn’t really have to discipline us too much. But I feel like that’s because our mother really put the fear of God in us. My mom would always tell us, I may not be with you, but God sees you. You know, she would always say that.

Brother Ronnie: I have to add to that story because I know exactly what my brother’s talking about. When he says (that) my mom said that God’s watching you—it’s because, again, my mom is visual. She’s visual. She can’t tell me what it means to hear. She can’t explain that to me. So, when she would tell me my brother, God’s watching you, I remember specifically she said, “God,”—this is a rough translation from sign language—”God has big eyes. Always watching.”

Brother Rowel: Yes. 

Brother Ronnie: And you know what? It actually makes sense. It’s not wrong. I mean, God is watching us. And as a young kid, I think that was actually perfect. 

Brother Rowel: And so yeah, you know, especially as a kid growing up, we’re like, “Hey, God is always watching us.” We don’t want to do anything bad. We don’t want to do anything, you know that that’ll get us in trouble. And so, the times that we did get in trouble, yeah, she it was very scary, you know, seeing that people get scared because their emotions are there. But you know, God is good. And, you know, he really used our parents to really put the fear of God in us. 

Aliw: How old were you, would you say, when your parents, your mom, started to give that analogy to you that God has big eyes?

Brother Ronnie:  It’s something she would tell us very pretty often. So often, it’s like, what you said, I would always remind myself that, when something’s about to happen, or there’s an  opportunity for some mischief. But, in the back of my head, Oh, hold on now, God’s watching. God’s watching. So, I can’t remember when she first told us, but it was, literally, a life lesson.

Brother Rowel: It was always constant. Always. It was almost like a bedtime story. She wouldn’t read stories. She would remind us, “Hey, before you go to sleep, remember, God’s watching you, wherever you go.” 

Aliw:  As we begin talking about their spiritual upbringing, I began to wonder, how did their parents worship when it’s only been in recent years that the Christian Society for the Deaf was established in the Church of Christ?

Brother Ronnie: You know, the story she would tell us is (about) our great grandmother back in the Philippines. We just know that somehow, some way, she was able to instill in her that our faith is important. Our membership in the Church Of Christ is everything. Because she would always tell me stories, like she’s almost bragging. She said, “In the Philippines, we walk to the chapel, we wake up very early: 2 a.m. We get up, we get ready. And we go to the chapel. We’re always at Church.” To see her so excited, and so—she was so proud of it, the fact that she was such a strong member. It really laid a foundation on me and my brother, of course too to think that, okay, this is something important. We’ve got to pay attention to this. 

I became 12 first, my brother, a couple years later. And I started to think, how does it benefit her? The worship services, the Bible studies? Because on top of worship service, we also went to Bible studies. And I would think, what is she getting from all this? Obviously, she’s not hearing anything. And when it came down to I know, she’s not lip reading or anything. So, what exactly is so important about this? And yeah, that kind of led to me and my brother kind of getting a glimpse of interpreting back then just a little bit. 

Aliw: So, at what age were you starting to sign for her in worship service?

Brother Rowel: In worship service?

Brother Ronnie:  It’s actually..never in a worship service. 

Brother Rowel: It was always after the fact. It was always after— that the parents would always ask us, “Okay, so what was the lesson about?” It really pushed us to try because just like what, what my brother mentioned, you know, seeing how important it was to them, you know, those times wherein we’re not able to answer. You know, and then seeing the disappointment on their face, you know, it hits and it hurts. And so, those moments like that, even that was a teaching moment for them, teaching us— “hey, pay attention in the worship service. Listen, so that you can help me out, too.”

Brother Ronnie: You can only imagine, though, from an eight year old, in the adults worship service. She’s asking, and you can’t keep saying, “Oh, it’s about God. It’s about Christ. It’s about God has big eyes, Mom, who’s always watching you.” You know, you can’t always keep saying that, so… Yeah, it definitely was a lesson learned, like them always asking us what the lesson was about.

Aliw: Was it eight, I mean, was that the youngest you can remember when your mom started depending on you to explain to her what the lesson was about in the adult worship service?

Brother Ronnie: I would say even younger. I would say even younger. 

Brother Rowel: I’d say if I can, just a personal experience. I have a clear memory of, you know, I don’t know how old I was. But obviously, I was young. And I remember being, you know, sitting beside my father, and I keep trying to lay on his lap. And then what he does is— my dad keeps waking me up and he tells me, stay awake. Listen. You know, again, as a child, I’m like, honestly, what would go through my mind is, you can’t even hear, you know, why? Why is this important to you? Why does it matter? You can’t even hear. But you know, as a child seeing that, and then finally being able to understand, you know, it’s like, okay, let me stay awake. Maybe there’s a reason why. But yeah, that was, you know, just what my brother said, we probably can’t think back to a specific age, or even a bracket, only because that’s what we’ve, you know, we’ve been having to do, ever since.

Aliw: So, did that mean you would attend children’s worship service ? And then adults’? 

Brother Ronnie: That’s correct. 

Aliw: Wow. So then you’d tell them too, what you learned in CWS, as well. 

Brother Rowel: Of course.

Aliw: As I listen to Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel reminisce on their childhood, I can see it in their eyes. Hearing each other reflect on what their childhoods were like, they, too, are in somewhat disbelief on the  spiritual responsibility they both carried as young boys. But there was one specific instance that really woke up Brother Ronnie; that this was not just about translating. 

Brother Ronnie: You know, there was a—just from my experience—It’s funny how it is because, just to give you an idea, my mother would ask us constantly now, it’s not just at the ride home from Church. I remember being at the gas station, and she would ask me, “Hey, what was last Sunday’s lesson about?” And I wouldn’t have anything to say. I’ll be completely honest, back then, I was still young—even as a teenager, you know, every little phase here and there, (I’d be) paying attention, and even my faith growing; it was still growing. It was still really young back then.

But there was a particular moment when at Church, there was a visitor, and the visitor was deaf.  A sister had met a deaf guest, and she brought him to the Church. Obviously, there are no interpreters. One of the choir members found this or found me. I was walking by myself and she said, “Hey, come upstairs, there is a deaf person there. They’re asking if someone can help relay to him the Bible studies, what the Minister is preaching about.” The minister—so there’s preaching, and I’m just at a blank. To the point where he’s talking and he’s preaching and I’m just trying to spell out “B-i-ble” I was so slow, I couldn’t keep up. 

And you know what, it hit me that I don’t even know what he’s talking about, the minister. And I’m not gonna—I’m not exaggerating. I was in high school. I wasn’t a little kid anymore. I don’t even know what the Minister is talking about right now, what the topic is, I don’t understand it. And I remember after that Bible study, I said sorry to the visitor. Sorry, I had a hard time. He said, “it’s okay.” And walking down the hall after that, I felt so low because I was like, wow, I really disappointed this guy. I really wasn’t able to relay the words of God to him. And in my mind, I was thinking, is this what I do to my parents every single week? Is this what I’m doing to them? I’m not giving them what they’ve been yearning for and begging for and wanting every single time, which is to hear God’s words? 

That’s when for me, I realized, you know, it all connects now. And I really have to pay attention. I really need to start learning now. Because not only did this person— I’ll be honest, we didn’t see him after that, and I felt bad about that. But even more so with my own parents. They never even get to hear the lesson, but they’re always asking us. That really left the imprint on me. It really made me think twice about that.

Aliw: I could tell this experience really affected Brother Ronnie. It’s almost as if he, along with Brother Rowel, started to understand how much their parents trusted and depended on them, when it came to their faith. Still, they looked to their parents as their examples; their role models on how to take care of their relationship with God, and the time they spend with Him.  

Aliw: So, this is a good time to point out that getting to worship service was not an easy feat for this family. When they were growing up, the closest local congregation was South Atlanta, which was 2 hours away from the small town where they had lived.

Brother Rowel: We grew up in Milledgeville, Georgia. 

Brother Ronnie: So our worship service in South Atlanta was on Sundays at 10am. Okay, so, Saturday. Saturday—my parents would tell me and my brother that night, “Okay, guys, get your clothes ready, get your Church clothes ready, get your after-Church clothes ready. Get your Church choir stuff ready for CWS and all that.” So, okay, we get ourselves ready. Then, on the next day, we woke up at 3am- 3:30 a.m very early. And they will tell us Okay, everyone, we’re going to be leaving around four or 4:30. So we get up bright and early, get in the car or the van. And we drive those two hours to get to the chapel around 6 or 6:30 a.m. And like I said, the worship service was at 10 a.m. You know, some people may say that’s a little early. And I will tell you the truth, me and my brother thought the same thing. We thought that was extremely early. But you know what’s funny, they always told us,  “We have to,  we have to be early.” We’d always ask, “Why. Why are we early?” But they never told us why. 

Brother Ronnie:  (Then) there was another year when we were driving to the chapel, the tire (blew). But the fact that we left early we’re able to get the tire fixed and still make it to the chapel early, because my parents had this mindset that it’s  the worship service – prepare the best possible way, nothing will ever stop us from worshiping God. And the funny thing is, they never said any of that. They just did it. They just were the best examples for us at that time. So after years and years of that, even till now, I find myself, Okay, worship services. 8pm. Gotta be there at 2 p.m.

Brother Rowel: It’s true, because I’m the same way. Worship Service is at  7:30, we’re going to be at the Chapel by  four o’clock. With our parents, they really did lead by example, every single time. They didn’t have to say it because they showed it. And that’s what we were able to take with us.

Aliw: So, I’m curious, how were you able to pray as a family?

Brother Ronnie: Our mother,  when we were younger, specifically her, she would get us together – It was always 7pm at night. Every 7 pm, at night, she’ll get the family together, me, my brother, and my father. And she’s like, “Okay, we’re gonna have our family prayer, just watch me.”  And we watched her pray. And she did really well. She prayed for everything. She thanked God, she asked, to (Him) to give us our needs, what we need in this life, prayed to Christ, and then everything in the name of Christ. She did it all. 

Brother Ronnie: At that time, it’s kind of whatever,  when you’re an eight year, a ten year old. It’s nothing, it’s a  normal thing for us. But now,  when I think about it, like wow, like, that’s how important it was, that we had to pray. And that she made a way that we still had a family prayer or a family devotional prayer every single night.

Brother Rowel: Towards the time when we were, you know, of age, it was almost like a worship service for them.  We would have family prayers, and it would only be me or my brother praying, and they would just  bow their heads, close their eyes, and that’s it. And then when we’re done with the prayer, we’d tap them on the shoulder. And they’d be okay with that. I guess it was almost,  we trust what you’re saying, and we know that you’re praying for the family. And so if you’re able to pray to God, then I know that you’re praying for us as well. And so even if…even though they weren’t joining in the prayer, for me personally, just knowing that,  it’s very humbling. 

Brother Ronnie: But for them back then, there was no set way on, for example, the correct way to do a prayer in sign language. My brother said they would close their eyes. Nowadays, the deaf are told to keep their eyes open, so they can see what’s being signed. But back then, you know, they tried to do their best just to make sure that we still maintain that function, which is a family devotional prayer. Until now, that still gets because, again, they adapted. They didn’t want it to be that there’s a reason why we can’t be a normal family; a normal Christian family – doing what we’re supposed to do. They didn’t want any excuses, we made sure we did what we had to do.

Brother Ronnie: If I could add to that, even if we just did a prayer, that’s one thing, but the worship service, that’s just another field. I do remember this. I remember looking at the minister,  and looking at my dad, and looking over trying to see my mom. And I’m telling you, their eyes were glued to the Minister. Again, I have to tell you, they don’t speak, they don’t read lips—they don’t do any of that. But their eyes were glued on the minister. Now we know, there could be any reason for someone to not pay attention, even doze off a little bit, (and) not focus on the worship service. And it can be whatever to them. But for them, what I learned was (to) never take it for granted. Never take it for granted. 

I mean, for them,  they want it so bad—to hear the lesson. So bad. And for other people to take it for granted and not listen. Take advantage of the fact that we have ears and we can hear the words of God like that—no struggle at all. When for them, back then,  there was no interpreter. There’s no formal training for sign language, so they couldn’t get the entire lesson like we’re all blessed to do. Yet, they’re focused. Their eyes are there, fixed on what the minister is saying. 

Brother Ronnie: And you know what, there is even one specific moment I remember which is the Minister – he’s wrapping up the lesson. It’s getting very spiritual,  brethren are feeling it. I look over at my mother, and I kid you not, she’s crying. And I don’t know why. I’m thinking, what are you hearing? What are you listening to? What are you getting from this? I remember asking her afterwards, like, Mom, why are you crying? What did the minister say? And she (said), “I don’t know. But I felt something. I was feeling something. And it made me feel like crying.”

Brother Rowel: When me and my brother would talk about it, we would always say they really did worship, depending on the Holy Spirit. 

Brother Ronnie: One of the biggest lessons we ever got from them. And again, they never explained that to us. They never told us about the Holy Spirit. They never put that in words,

but just based on the way they live, that’s how we learned it. 

ALIW: For over 18 years, their parents worshiped with no sign language interpreters, and yet, they would leave extremely early to make that 4 hour drive back and forth to each worship service. Then during the 95th anniversary celebration, their prayers were answered. They saw an interpreter on the big screen, Sis Rose Guillermo, from  Bellmore, New York. 

Bro Rowel: And the moment my parents saw that—it was a huge venue, huge—but the moment that my parents saw that there was a sign language interpreter on the screen, they did everything they could to find (her). It was like at that moment, they didn’t want to settle for just seeing them on the screen. They were like, No, I’m going to find where that sign language interpreter was. And I’m going to sit right there. And that’s what they did. They looked  all over. 

Brother Ronnie: Let me re-emphasize that. We lost our parents that day. 

Brother Rowel: We did. 

Brother Ronnie: We didn’t know where they were. 

Brother Rowel: I think it was like a 10,000 theater venue. It was a crazy situation. Because when they finally found her—Sister Rose at the time, she didn’t know that there were any deaf brethren. She was honestly signing because her parents were there, who were not members—

Brother Ronnie: Let’s put it like this. My brother mentioned that there were no deaf members. But when she met them, this is where the story just got –  it was just beautiful.

Go on, my brother, so she said that they just met, and then she met my dad and then what happened?

Bro. Rowel: So, mom and dad, they go to her. And, after speaking with sister Rose, after the fact she’s telling us, “I saw them come up and they just sit down in front of me.” Maybe like, you know, obviously a few feet, but they sat down in front. And they waved at her. And sister Rose is telling us, “At first, I’m like, “Okay, hello.””

But then after that, she goes, “Are you deaf?” And my parents are like, “Yes! Yes we are.” So then from that moment on, it just  sparked and the Holy Spirit just came in. And for them, it was just so overwhelming because, again, they’ve been waiting for this for so long. And as I mentioned earlier, they weren’t going to settle. Even from where they were sitting, they could easily see the screen and the sign language interpretation was there, but they weren’t going to settle for that. If they could be right there and they could get it face to face, they would. And that’s what they did. 

Bro. Ronnie: If I could add, just to put it in the context. I was 18 at the time; I, specifically, remember, I just turned 18 that year. So, we can safely say that for 18 years, this is the first time that they’re hearing the lesson. The first time that they’re hearing the words of God in 18 years—from the last time—they probably had a lesson back in, from the interpreters in the Philippines.

Aliw: In the Philippines they were getting an interpreter.  There was sign language in the Philippines?

Bro. Rowel: There was,  it was more than what it was here.

Bro. Ronnie: Definitely. I want to say the same thing. It was definitely starting up. It wasn’t like what it is now but it was just ministers here and there who were learning it trying to adapt.

Aliw: Definitely before CSD was established? 

Bro. Ronnie: Most definitely.

Bro. Rowel: I don’t know about my brother, but I remember we were both in the choir. And I remember just seeing it. And to see the face, from my mother, okay. But it’s always different when you see a man cry. It’s always different. And to see the overwhelming face of my father from the beginning until the end—and the way that we describe it is, you know, they were just filled with the Holy Spirit. Like they’ve been waiting for this for so long, and they wanted it so long, and so finally, when they finally had it, they just couldn’t hold it in anymore. They just couldn’t hold it in. And for me, I’ll never forget that –  to know, especially for one who really wants it and can never get it. And then finally, when they have it; when the worship service ended, it was almost like a, please don’t go. It was like a—please stay—because that’s how much they wanted it, and that’s how much they benefited from it.

Aliw: Whew, it’s dusty here! I think that so—I’m simply moved, simply moved. I think that the fact that your parents’ love for God or their faith, in 18 years, minimum, right, po? In 18 years, it never wavered. It never weakened. It only stayed stronger. As proof, as you said, Brother Rowel, seeing your dad, you know, filled with so much emotion, in tears. It’s something he had been longing for for so long. And I think that is such a testament to the depth of their faith. I mean, anyone can have faith. But the depth of someone’s faith, that’s when it’s revealed, right?

Aliw: Brother Ronnie, what was that like for you, seeing your father be that moved, when he finally got to, you know, see or understand or fully benefit, perhaps from a worship service because now there was signing in that worship service.

Bro. Ronnie: There was one specific day I remember. I walked in, and I saw my dad. He’s sitting on the couch, and he’s kind of bent over and I noticed him signing. (And I thought), “Who was he talking to?” And I was going to tap him on the shoulder, until I got up close and I realized his eyes were closed. You know, Sister Aliw, there hasn’t been many times that I’ve seen my dad pray. There haven’t been many times.  

But one thing is, when I saw that he was praying, and what he was praying for; because praying, for them, isn’t saying words in your head because they don’t say words, right? They only do sign language – that’s their language. So when they pray, they sign out what they’re saying. And to see what he was saying, “Bless my family, bless my children.” 

Bro. Ronnie: My dad doesn’t speak too much about his faith. He does not say too much about the Church. You don’t hear him say anything much about it. But to know that no one else was at home. I got there early, my brother was still at school, my mother was still at work. But to get there and see that and just know that we’re going somewhere. I always knew my mother was strong in her faith, but to see my dad growing like that, to the point where he’s praying, not with the family but by himself, he’s just praying by himself. 

Bro. Ronnie: I really—till now it gets to me that deaf people can be regular members, too. They can learn to have the same faith as all of us. You don’t have to be like my mother, that you had this faith instilled into you like when you’re super young, growing up all the way, but you could be a brand new member, newly baptized, and you could still have that faith. It can be taught to you. You can feel it as well. So, it’s like what my mother was saying. To see my dad in that way—It really has a big impact. And it really sh ows me that when it comes to those who are deaf, they can also live a normal Christian life inside the Church of Christ, just like anyone else.

ALIW:  In our next episode, we’ll continue our conversation with Bro Ronnie and Bro Rowel David. And this time, we’ll talk about a different chapter in their lives – the ministry. How were they called, and I’m sure you’re all wondering, just as I did – how did they tell their parents ?  And how did their parents react?

Stay tuned for part 2 of this story. And if you’d like to see photos of the David family, the full video interview of this episode, log on to incmedia.org/making-changes. Special thanks to Rose Guillermo for the ASL interpretation for this episode.  

If you found value in what you heard today, please share this with a friend or anyone you know that could use this story in their life. Stay up to date with all our new episodes  and follow us on our instagram account @makingchangespodcast. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you!

What happens when your skeptical neighbor becomes your sister in faith? For years, Kim said, “I don’t need church. God is everywhere.” But one Sunday, she chose to attend a worship service in the Church Of Christ.

That decision changed Kim’s life and also deepened the faith of her friend Aliw, host of Making Changes. It’s the story of how God moved the pieces in their lives to bring them together and bring them both closer to Him in ways they never expected. Finding God was just the beginning. Real peace comes when you choose Him daily.

00:00 – “When You Believe, Faith Doesn’t Die – It Only Grows Stronger”

Kim’s change wasn’t just about joining the Church; It was about understanding that membership is not a destination, but a doorway into deeper spiritual maturity… a deeper connection with God…and a deeper purpose in life.

If this story has moved you, or you know someone who needs to hear it, share it with them. And don’t forget to subscribe to Making Changes wherever you listen to podcasts. And remember, change can also be a transformation that makes you a path for others to find their way to God. So make that change.

For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org, the INC media app, or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Connect with the Making Changes Host

The bond their parents instilled in them would carry an older brother through seven years of patiently waiting… and be solidified in one night when the three brothers prayed together, now bound by something deeper than blood.

This is a story that proves some relationships are worth praying for, no matter how long it takes.

Episode Timestamps

Eighteen years later, Harmony, Aries, and Adonis still gather after every Sunday worship service to pray for their parents. They’ve learned that the most profound changes don’t happen overnight – they happen one invitation at a time, one prayer at a time.

So if you’re waiting for a loved one to change their heart…or know someone who is… share this story, and remind them that God’s answers are always… always worth waiting for, no matter how long it takes.

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host 

Watch Want to Find God?

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Ez thought she had everything under control. From the moment of diagnosis, Ez shares her powerful journey from needing control to complete surrender, letting go of everything she thought mattered and turning her pain into service to God and others.

00:00 – The Journey Begins: From Control to Surrender

Ez started her journey believing she could control everything…but after her cancer diagnosis she realized her power wasn’t her ability to plan every detail in her life. It was surrender. Surrender to God’s will. Surrender to God’s plans.

From telling God, ‘I trust you’ in her darkest moment to becoming a deaconess serving others in theirs, Ez discovered that letting go of what she couldn’t control gave her access to something far more powerful – purpose, peace, and the ability to transform pain into service.

If you’re struggling to control something today, remember Ez’s words: ‘Change is an opportunity.’ So, let go and surrender to the change God has in store for you. And if you’re a woman listening to this or know someone who needs to hear this, please – take action on what Ez learned the hard way. Fight for your health. Be your best advocate.

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host 

Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

At their lowest moments, Mary and Rashad couldn’t have imagined that their story was just getting started. That the same circumstances that nearly destroyed them would become the foundation for something beautiful.

This conversation explores the transformative journey of Mary and Rashad, who faced significant challenges and ultimately found redemption through faith. They discuss their experiences with hitting rock bottom, the importance of intentional prayer, the role of community in healing, and the commitment required in relationships and parenting.

00:00  From Rock Bottom to Redemption

God didn’t wait for them to clean up their act first. He met them right there in the mess and showed them the way out.

And it wasn’t some overnight miracle. It was messy. It was work. It was choosing God even when their hearts could have chosen an easier way out. But through all of that messiness, their story shows us what’s possible when we let go of the brokenness and surrender completely to God.

If Mary & Rashad’s story resonated with you, or if you know someone who’s been trying to control their own story instead of letting God write it, share these two episodes. Sometimes we need to hear that surrender isn’t giving up – it’s finally letting go.

For more Making Changes podcasts, visit incmedia.org or find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host 

Watch Part 1 of Mary & Rashad’s Story

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Two broken people seeking for answers find each other in pain. Church hurt, religious trauma, and childhood abuse bring Rashad and Mary together in their desperate search for healing and truth and in the process, find God waiting for them.

00:00 The Journey Begins: Meeting at a Casino

But their story doesn’t end here.

In part two of this episode, you’ll hear what happens after Mary called the minister, Brother Mike, their baptisms, and how they learned that true freedom isn’t about having no rules – it’s about joining God’s club and following His way. Their transformation from from choosing pain to choosing God, proves that sometimes the most beautiful stories come from the most broken beginnings.

If Mary and Rashad’s story resonates with you, or if you know anyone who’s been choosing their pain over God’s healing, share this episode. Sometimes we need to hear that God can write a better story than we ever imagined.

Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Connect with Aliw Garcia Pablo, the Making Changes Host 

Rate & Review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.