Making Changes

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Hi, Jerikka, how are you?

Jerikka Nahibuan: I’m great. How are you doing?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I’m good. I’m good. So, first I wanted to start off by saying, what did you think when you first got the message that someone wanted to thank you?

Jerikka Nahibuan: Oh, my gosh. It was so–it’s such a nice surprise. Like, obviously, I do my job and then patients say thank you. They come and go. But like, you don’t really get called out for something like that very often. So it was such a nice surprise.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.  So we’re continuing our  “Thank You Series”  – it’s basically surprise phone calls or video calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life. This time, you’ll hear a thank you from a patient.

Jerikka Nahibuan:  I don’t even know who the patient is. I think I have some suspicions. I have a couple of people, like, who could it be? But like, I don’t know who it is. So it’s a really nice feeling.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You guys see patients when they’re not doing so great, and especially as a physical therapist, and  once they’re better, they kind of go off into the world and, you know, continue on with their life. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So, today you’ll meet Jerrika, a physiotherapist or also known as a physical therapist  who is about to be surprised by a patient who says Jerikka changed her life and continues to make a difference in her life today.  Let’s listen in.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I’m glad that you’ll get to feel and hear the impact and change you’ve made in this person’s life. So without further ado, here’s your patient that wants to say thank you.

Jerikka Nahibuan: Yeahhhh!! Marilen! Hiii!!!

Marilen Barreda: Hey Jerikka! 

Jerikka Nahibuan:  Hi, how are you? 

Marilen Barreda: I’m good. How are you?

Jerikka Nahibuan:  I had a feeling. And I’m like, who would it be? And I’m like, Marilen, this is totally something she would do.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Did you, did you think it was her? Was she on your list of possibilities?

Jerikka Nahibuan: She was definitely on my list because this is totally something that she would do. She’s always thanking me. She’s always making me feel appreciated.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So I’m going to go ahead and give the floor to Marilen. And Marilen, let us know, tell everybody why are you thanking Jerrica today?

Marilen Barreda: So I just want to thank you, Jerikka, for agreeing to do this and coming on to the Making Changes podcast. You know, when…

Jerikka Nahibuan: Hold on, you’re making me cry already.

Marilen Barreda: You know, when I first heard about this segment with the Making Changes podcast team…

Aliw Garcia Pablo: This is Marilen, or Len, as I know her. She’s one of my co-workers here at INC Media, and she’s also a nurse. A few years ago, Marilen got into a terrible car accident which really scarred her physically, but also emotionally. But Jerikka was patient in helping Marilen recover from the accident and conquer her goals.

Marilen Barreda: I think when I first met with Jerrika, like I told her already from the get go, like, I’m not an easy case for you. Yeah, she’s like, what? What are your injuries? And I said, “So from my accident, I fractured half my face. I have an entrapped nerve, so I can’t move half of my face. I can’t feel anything. And then I have really bad nerve damage on the right side of my body.” Right? So, she’s like, Oh, that’s a lot, right? And she’s like, “That’s a lot of work.” And then she’s like, “Okay, so I have to meet with everybody and we have to work together.” And that’s when I was like, “Oh, this is different,” right? This is like…this is I’ve never heard someone say that. Oh, wow, she’s really going to study what’s wrong with me to help me. And then afterwards when I told her, when I found out about my heart condition too, she’s like, Oh my gosh, this is another thing. So just one thing after another. She’s just researching about it and helping me. And that was amazing, right? Thank you so much.

Jerikka Nahibuan: Marilen, you’re making me cry so early in the morning. Yeah, well, thank you. I, definitely, like you’re right, you’re not an easy patient, but you’ve come such a long way. From the first day I met you till, like, now, like, you’re so much stronger mentally and physically, like, you’re a completely different person. And I’m like, so proud of you, and I know you’re thanking me, but, like, I’m thanking you for putting in the effort because you had to show up, like you didn’t have to come to the therapy when you didn’t sleep after your overnight shift, but you did. And like, I wish I could take all the credit, but like, it’s not just me. Obviously, we have like a whole team that’s taking care of you, but like, that’s all you. And this is something I really needed to hear, especially, like, the past couple weeks. Like, obviously I’m on leave, so I don’t really talk to adults anymore. I just talk to my baby and my dog. So this is really nice. But you are one of the patients that I love, and this is exactly why I do what I do. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So let’s back up a little bit – As a nurse, Marilen is used to being active and always on her feet. But after her car accident, and all the injuries she sustained, this changed how she was able to live her life and look towards the future. And on top of that, during her recovery, she learned that she also had a heart condition. 

Jerikka Nahibuan: There was no doubt in my mind when I first met you that you should ever change career, that you should ever change what you’re doing, because that was the goal.

I wanted you to do what you love doing, and I can see how passionate you are about being a nurse. I mean, you even advanced in your career during the time that I’ve met you. Now that you have two jobs. So it’s like, there was no doubt in my mind that you would stop doing what you were doing. That would have never once crossed my mind. When I met you a couple of years ago, you were completely different from the person you are today. You’re so much stronger.

Marilen Barreda: Yeah. And I like to think that, like, you really helped me, like, listen to my body and you really look out for me as well, especially. I know, it’s not just you, even the team. You guys really look out for me, even though like I can be stubborn —

Jerikka Nahibuan: Oh, yeah, 

Marilen Barreda: Yeah, I can be stubborn, right?

Jerikka Nahibuan: You’re supposed to work out, but you’re (also) supposed to rest. And I think the rest component was something that she wasn’t getting. Like, the first thing I would ask her when she’d come in, like, did you sleep today? Did you, did you get rest because your body’s supposed to recover. If you’re not sleeping… I would lecture her every single session. That’s the first thing we talk about is sleep. Not even like, did you do your homework? Do you do exercises? Did you sleep? And she’s like, yeah, for like 20 minutes in the car before I got here. I’m like, go home, sleep. But I think maybe her stubbornness–I’m kidding. But she just had a lot of injuries. There was a lot. So, you know, in school you learn, okay, a person comes in with an ankle sprain. You know, it’s very straightforward. You know, therapy’s a little bit easier. But when you have so many issues going on, you know, it’s just a little bit hard to treat.

Marilen Barreda: I know, like when I got out of the hospital too, you messaged me. You’re like, you know, you have to really rest. So, don’t think about doing rehab right away. You know, you didn’t have to. You didn’t have to talk to my surgeons or anything, but you really worked together with them. And I appreciate that you took the time to do that. You took the time even before my surgery. You guys got me ready. I appreciate that, too. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  And as if recovering from the car accident wasn’t hard enough, Marilen found out that she would need open heart surgery and Jerikka was by her side, every step of the way. 

Jerikka Nahibuan: You are a superstar like not many people can go through all the things that you have gone through and be who you are today. Like obviously like, yes, you’re my patient, but over the past couple of years, you’ve become my friend. So when you were telling me that you (need to have) heart surgery, like everyone at Strength N-U, we were like praying for you. We were going through it as if a family member was going through a heart surgery. So, like, we all care for you, not just as a patient, but as like a really close friend. And that’s the great thing about therapy is that you have all these conversations, you get so close to like we’ve gotten so close. Like, I feel like I know, like, all about your life other than just your injuries. So like, obviously we care about you. And so talking to your surgeons, messaging you, like that was just me being a friend, you know, not a therapist because we really care about you.

Marilen Barreda: And I remember I remember, before my surgery, like hours before—because like leading up to my surgery, I was just worried about how my family was going to be. I was just preparing them and I wasn’t really preparing myself, right? But hours before my surgery, I remember getting that text from you. You’re saying like, you know, I’m really praying that like, your surgery goes okay. Don’t worry about anything. Everything’s going to be okay. And that was the first time that, like, I was really thinking about myself, like, wow, like someone’s thinking about me, right? Like, and it didn’t really hit me till then, right? Just hours before my surgery. So, like, that meant a lot to me. Thank you.

Jerikka Nahibuan:  You’re welcome. You’re welcome. And I know you, you’re the type of person that puts other people before yourself, as a nurse, with your family. So, like, that was what I wanted. I wanted you to just focus on yourself. And I think by focusing on yourself, that really helped with your recovery. But yeah, that’s just you. You’re just the person that, you know, cares for other people, but I’m glad, though, that text like, you know, it helped because I was really worried and I was really thinking about you. And as soon as you got out, I’m like, You’re good. She’s good. Yeah, I’m grateful for you. You’re grateful for me. I’m grateful for you.  

Marilen Barreda: I can’t stop crying.

Jerikka Nahibuan: I know. But, you know what? Yeah, obviously, like I’m like it’s me as a person, but like, I just obviously had a baby. So, you know, my hormones and my emotions are extra. 

Marilen Barreda: I’ve been saying, like, after surgery, I just like, I don’t know what it is, but it just opened me up with so many emotions. So, like, I can’t stop. I can’t stop with this. And that’s the hard part, right? Like before the surgery, I’ve been able to, like, hold my emotions in, but since after surgery, it’s just like coming out. I don’t know what it is.

Jerikka Nahibuan: But that’s good, though. You–having heart surgery is not, like, is not easy. That’s a serious thing. Like, I don’t think people realize what you went through that–it was serious. So, it kind of just puts your perspective on things, on life, differently, right? So, I mean, embrace all those emotions. I mean, when I see you next we can both cry, hug each other. That’s how I feel and that’s totally fine. But yeah, embrace it because you went through an experience that not a lot of people have been through. And I’m really proud of you.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  I’m gonna jump in here. And if I can ask you, Jerikka…you mentioned that Len wasn’t the easiest patient, and I can only imagine the kind of mindset that Marilen must have been in when she came to see you, having been told you had to change your career. “No, it doesn’t look good for you,” and all the kind of negative, you know, feedback she was getting from other specialists, right? But, when did you start to see the mind shift change in Marilen? Not only as she started to become physically stronger, but was there a point that you kind of started to see a glimmer of hope and positivity in her after some treatments?

Jerikka Nahibuan:  I would say, from day one, you know, like when I first met Marilen, and she told me about her career and I knew that she was working out with other personal trainers and like just her who she was like, I knew that her hearing, you know, that other specialist that told her to stop doing what she loved to do, like that was not going to cut it for her, which is probably why she changed therapists in the first place, right? But I knew from day one that her personality and her—I knew she was stubborn from day one. And I’m like, this is someone that’s not, you know—I’m going to have to, like, drill into her that she needs to take it easy. But it’s just, after maybe like the first couple of sessions, I knew that she was not a quitter and that she was going to be one of the patients that was going to push through and be successful in therapy. And that was what told me from the beginning that she really wants this and that she’s going to get things done no matter what. She’s not going to quit her job. She’s not going to stop exercising, doing things that you love, like kickboxing, working out. You know, like I just knew from the beginning. But like she said, she’s stubborn. And because you said that, I can say it too, you’re stubborn. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But it sounds like she’s stubborn and in a positive way where she just didn’t want to rest. So she was stubborn in that way.

Jerikka Nahibuan: But that’s important, too. I remember our first assessment, like, it was not straightforward. Normally, assessment, you figure out what’s going on, have a plan in your head. But I remember in our first assessment it was long as she was explaining all her injuries. And I’m like, I don’t know where to start. What do I start with, like head to toe and I had to swallow my pride and yeah, I’m going home and do my research cause I don’t really know what we’re doing right now. So, you really just have to admit like I’m not really sure, so I need to go home and do some research. So, Marilen definitely kept me on my toes and you know, kept on adding more things you know with the surgery but that’s okay, we got through them.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And Len, you mentioned before that when you first walked into their facility, what was the level of strength you have, or did not have?

Marilen Barreda: So, it was funny because when they do initial assessment when you go in their facility and coming into their facility when they assessed me, I couldn’t even lift a wooden stick. And that was embarrassing for me. And they said, “You have a lot of work to do.” And I was like yeah, I couldn’t believe it. And when I saw Jerikka, I told her, “I’m not an easy patient for you.  There are so many things wrong with me. I’m not an easy patient. And then from then on they really made me work, even until this day.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So for you, Marilen, what was it that–you said that other specialists were saying, you know, weren’t as positive or hopeful, but what was it when you met Jerrica—could you already tell from the get go, like, okay, I’m going to get a different kind of care with this team?

Marilen Barreda: I think what stood out was when Jerikka told me, you know, I’m going to gather our team and talk to everybody and we’re going to discuss the care that you need so that we can work together and put together a plan so that we can get you to the goal that you need to accomplish, get you functioning and mobilizing again. And I was like, wow. Like I didn’t hear that–because before I’ve been hearing like you have to change (your) career, you know. You’re not going to be able to function again. And for me to hear like, they’re going to help me get to the goal that I need to get to, right? Like, that was music to my ears. And like, I couldn’t believe it. And it was a long, very long journey to accomplish. But they’re going to help me get there. And it’s still a struggle. But, you know, like with Jerrika—she was determined to help me get there. So, that was a big thing for me. And I was very shocked, and I didn’t know that it was even possible to do, so, that was great. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And in one sentence, Marilen, what would you say is the biggest change that Jerikka has had on your life and on your recovery. 

Marilen Barreda:  Biggest change…I think she was very patient and understanding to the needs that I  needed to accomplish, and I needed to reach the goals that I needed to reach. So, I’m very appreciative for that. I’m very grateful. I don’t know, one sentence is not enough. One sentence is not enough for all the work that she’s done. But I know that for her patience and understanding every single time that she’s helped me, she’s treated me, I’m very grateful for that.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And Jerikka, how do you–and I’m sure Len is not your only patient–but how do you have so much care? I mean, to be able to tell a new patient that you’ve just met, “look, I’m going to get our whole team together and we’re going to help you.” And that’s someone that you just met, right? Where do you get, you know, all the compassion and care that you are able to kind of spread out to all your patients? Where does that come from and how do you not get burnout? You know, because most people in the medical field today, let’s be honest, right? They’re really getting (burned out). So, how do you keep inspired and still in the place of being able to give and care?

Jerikka Nahibuan: I think it’s just like me as a person, like I just care. That’s why I got into physiotherapy in the first place to help people. And not save lives necessarily, but to help people live their lives. And it’s just me as a person. That’s the reason why I got into this in the first place. And with regards to just burning out, like I don’t–sometimes I don’t see my job as a job. I go to work and because I love what I do, sometimes our sessions, sessions with clients, like clients like Marilen, like I don’t feel like I’m working, we’re chatting, we’re doing therapy, but we’re, we’re having a good time, right? So when you put yourself— when you put your mind in that perspective where you don’t see yourself as working, you’re just doing something that you love, you lessen your chances of having a burnout. And also, I mean, you practice what you preach, you exercise, you have a good balance. And, you know, there have been times where I have felt like I was on the verge of having a burnout, like I was exhausted, mentally, physically. But you just have to take a step back and take a break. But it’s also just waking up, going to work and thinking, yeah I’m going to work a 12 hour shift, but I’m going to do it. Well, you go to work–so you can go into the mindset that I’m going to just work from 9 to 9, or I’m just enjoying my day. Do what I love, talk to people and not see it as a job. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So, you talk about really that mindset, right? It, not just a job, but doing something you love and helping people. How much of therapy, physical therapy, would you say is really physical versus mental? Like, how is all of that connected in recovery and getting stronger?

Jerikka Nahibuan: Well, people would say that, it’s probably like 90% physical therapy and 10% mental therapy, but it’s maybe a 50/50, maybe even more on the mental aspect because so like, let’s just say the therapists that Marilen would’ve seen, they’re an amazing physiotherapist. They have all these certifications, maybe better than me, but because they were telling her that you can’t do this, you can’t do the workout, you can’t do your job. That mental aspect took over. So that’s why it was unsuccessful.  For me, probably doing the same physical aspect as all the other therapists being as efficient in the physical, physical sense, if I don’t have that connection, that mental aspect, the motivation, telling my patients that you can do this, therapy is not going to work. And if the patient doesn’t have that trust in you, they don’t believe that what you’re doing is going to work, then it’s not going to work out. They’re not going to get better. Like it’s that rapport that I think every health care professional needs to develop with that patient, that level of trust and a certain level of motivation that things are going to work out if you really try. Because like I said, like at the beginning, it was all Marilen that was doing her homework to exercise and showing up. And that is not the physical sense, but that’s the mental aspect of therapy. That’s maybe more important than the physical aspect. And if somebody is telling you you can’t do this and this is not going to work out no matter how hard you try, stop doing it altogether–like, you’re not going to get better. So, just having a strong, strong mind and strong, like the will to get better, that’s going to increase your physical abilities.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  And Len, I know you’re a very, you’re a very faithful and spiritual person and I know that you prayed a lot, you know, during your recovery and even with the heart surgery before the heart surgery and after, how much would you say that…what would you say, that, Jerikka, is an answer to your prayers?

Marilen Barreda: Definitely. I prayed a lot. And I think God helped me find the rehab clinic to help me in my recovery. God helped me to find Jerikka, for her to work with me to help me in my recovery.  To help me get back into my line of work, even in INC Media, right? Because I wouldn’t be able to function and live my life. Right. And it’s (only) through prayer, definitely. And I know it’s only with God’s help. I know that. And I’m thankful every day (for) that. And I know there’s conversations that Jerikka I would have about that. And we would always talk about that. She’d ask me as well. And even before my surgery, she would always bring that up, right? Like, definitely. And I’m thankful for that. That God really played a big part during this whole time during my recovery.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And Len, you know, you’ve had your share of like, you know, like Jerikka has said, you’ve had your share of struggles that not everyone goes through. You had a car accident and then, you know, your heart surgery. What would you say is the biggest––you mentioned that your heart is much more open now, like literally. Like what would you say are the changes you’ve gone through with these experiences, what are the a-ha moments you’ve come to realize and how has it changed you as a person?

Marilen Barreda: I think just to really be appreciative of my life, to appreciate everybody that’s around me, to appreciate everybody that’s helped me during my journey. Not just be distracted with work, but be more grateful, you know, because yeah, just to be grateful for what I have, be grateful for everybody that’s been helping me in my life, (like) Jerikka, who’s helped me in my recovery, grateful for my family that’s been supportive as well. And not just to be distracted with work, but really like to focus on what’s important, you know, with my work in the Church, work on myself and my health because, you know, life is very precious, right? So just to focus on what’s more precious in life. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Well, I’m so glad you both connected.

Jerikka Nahibuan:  Yeah, well, thanks for bringing me on this podcast. I feel so overwhelmed with emotion. Thank you for believing in me and not giving up in me and my therapy. And, you know, we care about you. Everybody at  Strength N-U. We care about you. And we’re going to have more goals in the future. But again, thank you for just making my day. It really means a lot to me and it reminds me why I do, what I do. So, I’m really, I’m really grateful.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And now you’re back to kickboxing or what is your strength level now?

Marilen Barreda: I’m still, I’m still trying to get there. I am just lifting 15 lbs on my chest area, but on my legs, I can–I can do more, but I’m getting there. I’m getting there.

Jerikka Nahibuan: But I saw you do a class? You did a class. 

Marilen Barreda: Yeah.

Jerikka Nahibuan: I visited the gym, so I’m on mat leave. I’m not working right now, but I visited the gym and I saw Marilen, doing a really high intensity class, and I was like, that made me so happy seeing her. I mean, she just had heart surgery just in September and she’s doing a class, like that’s rare, that is so rare. I was so proud of her and like, I was watching you and you did amazing. I remember telling my mom, I’m like that’s her, that’s the one who had heart surgery, and she’s here. I was so excited, like, (it) just made my day. But she’s..she’s you know, kicking like all her injuries in the butt, like she is doing amazing. She’s doing things that people who didn’t even go through an accident, didn’t have heart surgery, like they can’t even do, so she’s doing amazing.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Well, thank you both. And we’re so proud of you, Len. We’re so proud of the, you know, just the strides that you’re going through and everything you’ve been able to overcome. And we’re all cheering for you. You know, we’re all cheering for you. And we know the best is yet to come.

Marilen Barreda: For sure, thank you. 

Jerikka Nahibuan: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Thank you, guys. Special Thanks to Jerikka and Marilen for being part of our Thank You Series. You know, this episode just goes to show what a difference one person can make in changing someone’s life and their perspective on life. So if you have someone  that you’d like to thank for making a change in your life, send us a message on our Making Changes instagram account @makingchangespodcast. We’d love to hear from you  and maybe even have you both on the show!  

If  you enjoyed  what you heard today, please share it with a friend and we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on whatever platform you’re listening from. Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes.  For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ), log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app. 

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

Parenting Children with Special Needs

Aliw:  Hey, it’s Aliw. You know, one of the biggest milestones in a person’s life is raising a child.  And we’ve tackled that topic on Making Changes a few times, most recently with our episode Dads with Autistic Kids. But we wanted to hear more from parents with special needs kids. So, today, I want to share with you an episode of Faith and Family, another podcast from INC Media audio.

In this episode of Faith and Family, two moms, each with a son with Down’s syndrome, have a conversation about what life is like with a special needs child, and how to overcome special needs parent burnout. But also the life lessons that’s changed their perspective in this beautiful journey.  Let’s listen in.

Mariel Gutierrez: Hi everyone, you’re listening to the Faith and Family podcast, a Christian family community that aims to promote Christian values for every phase of your family life. I’m Mariel Gutierrez. This week, we have two moms, each with a son born with special needs.

Maribel Aquino: Hi, my name is Maribel Aquino from Pomona, California. I have a three-year-old son named Brennan.

Acelyne Parco Sagabaen: My name is Acelyne Parco Sagabaen from Burlingame, California. My son is Jaxson, and he’s one year old.

Mariel: Acelyne’s son, Jaxson was diagnosed with Down’s Syndrome during pregnancy, and Maribel’s son, Brennan was diagnosed at birth. Down’s Syndrome is characterized by intellectual and developmental delay due to a chromosomal disorder. Despite these challenges, a growing number of people with DS live independently and are able to find employment.

Maribel: Three words to describe Brennan. Number one, he is brave. He’s sociable and diligent. He is brave. Actually looking back, my husband and I were thinking, “There must be a reason why we named him Brennan because the meaning of this name is brave.” Brennan is sociable. He gives a hug to everyone he meets. He lights up the room with the sweetest smile. And Brennan is diligent. Until now has been receiving therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy, and then now speech therapy. And he works so hard and he doesn’t complain.

Acelyne: Three words to describe Jaxson. Jaxson is strong, and loving, and mellow. Maribel, what’s a fear that you had when you first found out about Brennan’s diagnosis? And looking back what would you tell your old self about that fear?

Maribel: More than anything else, I feared for his health, and I feared for his life. You know, those unanticipated health issues. When we learned about his congenital heart defect, we were so scared. And looking back, what will I tell myself, I will tell myself that everything will be okay. Learn to let go and let God take control of everything. And everything will be okay. I remember where during NICU (newborn intensive care unit) days hospital stays, I kept telling myself: “Nothing God gives that we cannot handle.” I kept on repeating those words in my mind. And it helped me get through all those difficult situations.

Acelyne: I had fears of—I had a lot of fears when I found out about Jaxson’s diagnosis, like, I had fears that people wouldn’t include him or love him just because he had a disability, like, I was so scared that people would leave him out. And I also had fears of having the ability to care for a child with a special with special needs, because I  had no idea how to care for someone with special needs. I’ve never been in that situation. I also had fears of having enough time and resources because before being a mom, I felt like I had no time, or I didn’t have enough time for myself. So when I found out about his diagnosis, I kept thinking like, how am I going to take him to his appointments? How am I going to take care of him? And how do we have enough financial resources to bring him to all these specialists and doctors? I was just so scared.

And I also had fears about the future like who would take care of him if something happened to myself or my husband? Like will he be able to take care of himself? I don’t—I just didn’t know.

Looking back, I would tell my old self not to worry. Don’t worry about anything. You may feel nervous and scared but we have a God that can help us through anything. He’s the greatest provider. Maribel, I feel like there’s definitely more worried that parenting challenges, right? What do you think the most rewarding thing is about being a mom of a child with special needs?

Maribel: Raising kids is not an easy task. It takes a village; more so if they have special needs. For me, the most rewarding aspect of being a parent to a kid with special needs is that we get to see, experience, and feel God’s miracles firsthand in our lives. Through Brennan, we see God’s love and power. There’s just so many, like I have a long list of answered prayers. We felt so much closer to God. And this beautiful journey, although it may be challenging, and for others, they may see it as inconvenient. It could be an [unconventional] kind of parenting, but the rewards are so much greater and it outweighs all those challenges.

Acelyne: I love that you said that Maribel! Because like Brennan is three years old now and Jaxson is still one. So I’m still really new to being a mom, how do you find the strength to keep going?

Maribel: If I may share this one experience? The very first surgery. One Monday morning, I received a call from the NICU doctor. Nine o’clock. The doctor told me that they’re going to do the surgery. It’s called exploratory laparotomy. It’s a procedure to open up the abdomen to fix or find out what’s causing the problem. Brennan was few weeks old. We didn’t know what the problem was. He kept vomiting. That Monday morning when they called us, [they said] they’re going to do that surgery on that same day. I was bawling. And I thought I’d lose my mind.

I was so overwhelmed. I didn’t know what to do. My husband was already at work. I was by myself. I ran to our living room. And then I knelt down and prayed. The doctor was even worried about me because you know, when she was telling me about the procedure and explaining my sense of hearing stops, because you know, like, she was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. But all I heard was there’s a surgery, you know, they have to do the surgery.

During the preparation, I remember the nurse asked for the waiver for me to sign, right? Because I couldn’t sign it. I couldn’t take any longer. I ran to the restroom. And then I grabbed a clean toilet seat cover. I laid it flat on the floor. And then that’s where I knelt. I said—I just surrendered everything to God. It’s His will, whatever happens, you know? “Just give me the strength that I need.” But there’s hope. I mean, I’m praying that he’ll make it.

And then after that, I went back to his room and then signed the waiver form. And then yeah, that they did the surgery after two or three hours and then he’s back. That first surgery, and then here comes another one. And then the third one. He was under the knife nine times. You thought it would get easier. No. Another major surgery was the heart. But thanks be to God. I mean, because of His mercy and compassion, look at Brennan now. He has come so far and we’re so grateful to our own Almighty God. So what’s the most rewarding aspect of being a mom to a child with special needs?

Acelyne: I feel like the most rewarding part is seeing him grow and seeing him like smash all his goals, even though it may take him a little longer than typical children. Seeing him accomplish one goal and how happy he is, it just makes me so happy. Seeing him grow within a community that loves him. So I’m so happy that he gets to grow up inside the Church Of Christ because the community inside the Church is so strong and supportive, I wouldn’t know what I do without all the brothers and sisters in the Church Of Christ. They love him so much and I love seeing how much happiness he brings them, and to know that he’s not a burden.

So that’s that was also one of my fears that he would be a burden to myself or he would be a burden to me and Jones, my husband, or my family, or be a burden to other people. But it was the total opposite. He’s not a burden he’s a ball of love. He’s the total opposite of a burden he’s such a blessing to us and such a blessing to our family and He’s truly a gift from God, that’s a great source of happiness to us.

Acelyne: So, Maribel how do you overcome special needs parent burnout?

Maribel: Okay, this may sound cliche, but I strongly believe that you cannot pour from an empty cup. So, we have to take care of ourselves, so we can take care of others, right? So how can we take care of others if we’re sick? So we have to be physically, mentally, and emotionally fit, with proper nutrition. Also, I try to squeeze in exercises.

We cannot underestimate the value of “me time” because our needs matter too! Our needs are important too. Also, communication with the spouse or family member. And it’s also an important thing is [to]  find a support group. Try to look for resources that are offered within the community. And most of all, pray. Pray that because we have God as our best friend. He is always ready to listen 24/7. Okay, how about you Sister Acelyn, how what do you do to overcome the parent burnout being a special needs parent?

Acelyne: Like you, I absolutely believe that “me time” is so important to overcome special needs parent burnout because, I mean, almost every day we go through therapies and driving there and making sure he making sure Jaxson eats and gets changed and cleaned before therapy and after therapy. [My husband and I], we make sure that we set aside some time to go for a walk just to go outside and get some vitamin D and feel the sun on our faces because we’ve been indoors taking care of Jaxson all day. I love that my husband also allows me to get a massage. I mean simple things like that or just [getting] boba after a therapy like that really helps us out, so we don’t get burnt out. Setting aside time to meditate at the house of worship, and making sure we have that moment of peace and silence, meditating and resetting our mind and our bodies and really get rid of all that built-up stress that we may have throughout the week and be renewed.

Another thing we do to overcome special needs parent and burnout is asking for help when we need it because really, taking care of a child with special needs, it’s like another a whole other job, it’s like a full-time job. So whenever someone offers us help, and we need it, we make sure to take it because we might overstress ourselves or might be mentally drained, because of all the appointments that we have to go. And we make sure to treat ourselves with anything that we like, like even just doing some, doing a hobby that we like to do. So for me, one of my hobbies is reading. So even just a few moments to curl up in a corner and, and read a book or learn a new language, something fun. Spending time to go out for a dinner every once in a while, that that really helps us.

My prayer for Jaxson is for him, to grow up strong, for him to know that he’s loved. For him to understand his purpose, and for him to know that he has a purpose and he’s not worthless. I want him I pray for him to grow up knowing God’s words, to grow up knowing that he’s a loved servant of God, and a loved child of God. I pray he will always be protected from any harm and danger and to grow up with good health and, and the ability to serve with all his heart. That’s my prayer.

Maribel: My prayer for Brennan is that God will give him the strength to overcome all these challenges, because there’s just so many unanticipated health issues with Brennan, you know, like just a simple cough and cold for a typical child to recover for a week, but with Brennan, it may take few weeks, two months, and sometimes it could even mean hospitalization. We fear that you know, like, because hospital life is difficult. Every day we do not take for granted every single day that we are home. We are thankful we are home, because that means he’s healthy. We are home, that means we are not at the hospital. And [in] our prayer, we are thankful to God because we have him. He’s alive. He’s been through a lot, but he is with us. God continues to entrust Brennan to us and that is a very big blessing to our family. This journey, it’s challenging, but it is very beautiful. It’s one thing that I would not trade anything in this world.

Mariel: Thanks to Maribel and Acelyne for sharing tiny snippets of what life with a special needs child is like. You might be surprised to find out that it sounds similar to your own parenting journey, even though you may not even have a child with special needs. Parenting a child with developmental or intellectual disabilities used to be very stigmatized, but thankfully people with disabilities are more advocated for in society today.

I’m Marlel Gutierrez, thanks for listening to the Faith and Family podcast. Don’t forget to like and subscribe and follow @incmedianews on Instagram for the latest on incmedia.org.

Dads with Autistic Kids

Aliw:  Hey, it’s Aliw. Since April is Autism Awareness Month, we’re bringing back this episode, Dads with Autistic Kids. This conversation was an eye-opener for me, and for so many of you as well. It’s a very personal conversation between two dads on what it’s like to raise kids on the autism spectrum. You know, it’s not everyday that we get to hear two men open up and be vulnerable about fatherhood and family life. So I’m grateful for Mike and Jay for letting us in, for having this conversation, and we hope this  helps other parents with autistic kids, feel less alone. 

Jay: Good morning. 

Mike: Good morning. Can you hear me? 

Jay: Can you hear my audio?

Mike: Yeah. 

Aliw: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. 

Mike: Hi, Jay. How are you?

Jay: Hi, Mike. I’m good. How are you?

Aliw: Today’s episode is for dads. Today we’ll listen to two dads who have found themselves adjusting their plans in parenting upon finding out that their children were diagnosed with autism.  You’ll meet Jay from Australia whose 4 year old daughter, Layna, was  recently diagnosed with autism, and he’ll be talking to Mike, who will be passing on what he’s learned from his experiences with his 8 year old son, Mateo, who was diagnosed at 22 months.

Mike: What time is it over there right now?

Jay: 12. Just after midnight. 12:18.

Mike: You look so awake.

Jay: Helayna is very active at this time of night. We usually don’t sleep until 4AM. That’s a good day. Yesterday it was 5AM.

Mike: I hear you, bro. I hear you.

Aliw:  So, what happens when a dad realizes he now has to pivot his parenting styles and strategies when his child has such an active mind that they rarely sleep, or are non-verbal and have to navigate through a whole different way of communicating and interacting? How does one cope with an unexpected diagnosis that changes their lives in an instant? Here’s Mike and Jay.  Let’s listen in.

Jay: Hi, Mike. 

Mike: Hey, Jay.

Jay: Thank you so much for taking this time to sit down with me, and basically, answer a few questions that I’ve had since, you know, my having a daughter that has been diagnosed with autism, and you having I believe a son, Mateo. I would really love to hear, like, your insights to my questions, being further down in this journey than I am. So thank you so much for taking this opportunity with me.

Mike: No, thank you, Jay. It’s great to meet you. And I say thank you because it’s important for us to share our stories. When we share our stories, we help one another. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is great.

Jay: I wanted to ask – how did it start for you?

Mike: For Mateo, he was formally diagnosed shortly before he turned…shortly before he turned two, when my wife, Myra, had started to notice some things about our son when it comes to what we would normally see as milestones for children his age for toddlers. And I just remember coming home from Church. And, you know, I can see that something was troubling her. And then she just simply said, “I think Mateo is autistic. I knew nothing about autism to begin with…

(audio fades)

Aliw: And that was the start of their journey. From that moment of a mother’s instinct, they began to see medical professionals and months later, by the summer of 2015, their beautiful boy, Mateo was officially diagnosed as autistic. 

Jay: So how was that emotionally? For the both of you?

Mike: It was the weight of reality settling in. It had been this up and down journey of like, does he really have autism? Are we just overthinking this? Is he just missing some markers, some milestones? And it’s our fault, because we haven’t done enough with him? I don’t know. Right? So when we finally received that official diagnosis, I remember when we were just walking back from the doctor’s office to the vehicle. I don’t remember us actually talking on the way back to the vehicle. And it’s just when we all got inside the car, and Myra and I, we just looked at each other. And both of us were just so teary eyed. It was that moment of acceptance that this is our son. And he comes from God. 

At that very moment, we had a prayer, thanking God and helping us really begin to understand not only our son, and what his journey could entail, but thanking God to help us understand the kind of journey that we need to take as a family.

Jay: We have our daughter Layna. Currently four years old. And she was two years old also when she was diagnosed, when we had our, you know, the regular checkups that she had just to make sure she was hitting her milestones, that’s when the nurse noticed some signs that led to autism. 

I think that was the biggest struggle for us, that we didn’t have a definite answer because of the pandemic causing a lot of delays. We had to see three different professionals just to make sure that the diagnosis was correct. And when she was officially diagnosed, it was already like a breath of relief for us. But when we first found out that she might potentially be on the spectrum for autism, it was, I would say, very heartbreaking for both Gem and I. 

It’s really different, when it actually impacts your family directly. And Layna is our first child. We had all these dreams that we were thinking about. And then when we already had an idea of what challenges somebody with autism could have. And when we find out that our daughter will be facing those challenges, you know, it crushed us a little bit. That’s putting it gently. It crushed, crushed us a lot. 

I guess the question I want to ask is, what would you say to another dad, in particular another father that has just been told that their child is on the autism spectrum? 

Mike: I would have to ask, what in particular with your situation, your dreams for your child? What in particular was heartbreaking for you, and for your wife, when you found out?

Jay: We had dreams of, I guess…I guess the conversations that we would have, and the, you know, the adventures that we would have with her, as she grew up older, and, you know, for my wife, it was also things such as for her, eventually, going, walking down the aisle and being a grandma, for my wife and us being grandparents.

The first month, it was really a lot of prayers. And really, it was, through those prayers, that we were able to find the courage to face what we needed to face, to do what needed to be done. 

Mike: From your original question, somebody who just finds out that their child is on the spectrum, and then they might be feeling lost? You know, I would let them know that—I would argue that you’re actually not lost. But once we get that official diagnosis, well, now we know. 

Jay: That’s right. It was really God who stepped in and helped us change our mindset.

Mike: And this is actually something I had to remind my mother, not too long ago. And you know, my mother, she loves her grandson to death. And she keeps sharing with us how she’s always praying for her grandson. And what’s interesting is that she, in her prayers, would say that. To help Mateo become normal. Right? And I had to remind my mother. You know what, Mateo… this is his normal…

But I think instead of feeling lost, at least now you know, the direction you needed to take. Right? And it’s not easy. It’s never going to be easy. And it’s too simple to say you have to accept it. This is who they are. 

Aliw: You know, I can’t say that I know exactly what Mike or Jay have had to go through, but as a parent, I can definitely understand that fear that sets in when you receive life-altering news about your child, fear of what’s to come and the never-ending questions that keep you up at night. 

Jay: So, we have those questions such as “Will my child ever be able to speak?” And “Will they be able to look after themselves?” “Will they be able to find love?” Because as parents, and even before we even found out any of this diagnosis for her, our concern was always like, make sure that she’s prepared and she’s ready to face life by herself. 

Mike: You know, in my case, it’s like I had that thought, “Is my name going to be carried to the next generation?” Right? Because he’s my only son, like how, like, how selfish and how archaic is that thought, right? 

Jay: It’s like, how are they going to be when we pass away? Will they be able to understand the things that they need to do, and especially as members of the Church Of Christ, will they be able to comprehend what they need to comprehend so that they can remain inside the Church? 

The question I have for you, Mike, is what do you tell yourself so that you can find the courage to continue doing what you need to do, and just to and carry on?

Mike: Simply, we have to get him to salvation. We can dream and we can wish, we can pray for our children to gain a certain understanding and skills that will help them in life. But everything that we will be dreaming of, everything that we would be praying for, all of those are necessary for our child, in the end, to get to salvation. 

So, that is the one thing that just being a Christian dad, you can research parenting books, you can look up on websites on how to be a great father and all that, but we keep hearing it in the worship service all the time, we keep hearing it from ministers, God already gave us the blueprint in the Bible. Right?

I remember Emirick Haro, she mentioned this in a Faith Speaks that she did a long time ago, she was talking about her son. And I just remember her mentioning that she came to the realization that her son doesn’t really belong to her, or her husband. Her son Russell actually belongs to God. Right? And Mateo, our son – he came from God. So, we have to get him to salvation. What is it that we can do to help him so that he can grow to love God? 

Interestingly enough, we started this prayer a long time ago. It was on the heels of a video streaming worship service. And, if I remember correctly, it was an ordination of new ministers. And I remember holding Mateo in my arms that day in the prayer for those newly ordained ministers. It hit me. Why can’t Mateo be a minister? From that point on, that has been our prayer for Mateo. 

Jay: Wow.

Aliw: Jay, being a son of a minister himself, was quite surprised at the dreams and aspirations and prayers Mike had for his son, Mateo. 

Mike: Sure, we want God to help him to do the things that we do, so that he himself can actually grow up to take care of himself. But if the goal is to get him to salvation, praying for him to become a minister? What does that require? Well, he needs to learn how to speak. He needs to learn how to socialize with people, he needs to understand other people, and therefore to be able to understand their problems, he has to ultimately comprehend the words of our Almighty God, right?

Jay: Right. Yes.

Mike: And ultimately, he has to grow to love God. That’s going to get him to salvation. Right. So that has been our prayer for our son. 

Jay: It’s really just follow the path, follow the blueprint.

I think fear plays a big role in needing to do the things that we need to do. Sometimes, I guess we second guess ourselves. It’s like, are we doing the right thing? Is this really helping Layna?

Mike: Yeah. 

Jay: And that’s kind of why we have a lot of late nights is that the majority of the time her energy is really high. She is always so happy. Right? And it’s very hard to calm her down. But when she’s down, when she’s sad, oh, you’ll know it from a mile away. 

Mike: Absolutely.

Jay: And it’s hard, she can’t tell you why she’s not feeling happy. And you have to, you know, we’ve learned a lot by looking at her nonverbal cues, being able to learn a lot more of that. It’s still a guessing game for us. 

Mike: We’ve been seeing it in Mateo, how we need to communicate with him to be an active listener. Being able to read his body language, so that we can address what might be bothering him.

Aliw:  And it was in this part of the conversation where what started off as thoughts of fears of the unknown, now slowly transitioned to the blessings that they’ve begun to see in their marriages as a result of learning and dealing with the autism diagnosis. 

Mike: Over the years we’ve discovered how we need to be better for each other as husband and wife. It could be a challenge for husbands in general, but to read body language, and then to be an active listener. I know it’s our first impulse to try to find a solution, and just fix it. Right? Because we’re fixers, that’s what we do, we fix things. But a lot of the time, we don’t need to be the fixer, we just need to be the listener, we just need to try to understand what’s happening. So in being able to do what we need to do to help us strengthen our relationship with Mateo, in turn, it’s helped us with Micah, our daughter, and in turn, it has also helped Myra and I as husband and wife.

Jay: Over these two years, our relationship has gotten stronger, because not only has our communication skills have become better, it’s, you know, seeing the cues, our patience has gotten better. And overall, just being able to show that love, you know, and having that energy through how you say your words. You know, when we have those bad days, we want to make sure that we’re also in that place of love before we say anything.

Parents who have children who are neurotypical, you know, someone that doesn’t have autism, their child is able to say what they want to say when they want something, or what might hurt or whatever. Whereas with autism, they can get easily overwhelmed with a new environment.

For example, when we bring her to the children’s worship service, right, and there’s, you know, it’s quite loud, there, there’s a lot of children and sometimes before, while you’re waiting for the worship service to start, and even after, the children are quite loud and happy, in general, but for her, that is hard for her to get used to at the moment. And that’s one of many, but one of the triggers that can start off a bad day, because she’s not able to express it. 

But would you and your wife together, when you have those bad days, when you aren’t able to console them, eventually becomes overwhelming for you, slowly, when you realize that, how do you and your wife work together to get through it?

Mike: Essentially, we talk it out, we have to talk it out. So, if ever Mateo is having difficulty regulating his emotions, like negative emotions as if he’s not feeling good at all, we can ask him questions. If he reacts to it, then, hey, maybe that’s what actually bothered him. And then we can smooth things out. If he doesn’t react to it, then we’ve got to keep asking him. 

And you’re probably finding this with Layna as well. What could be bothering them at that moment actually probably didn’t happen at that moment. It may have been something that happened a few hours ago, it may have been something that happened maybe a couple of days ago, or maybe even last week. But it’s only at that moment that they are expressing their feeling of what happened to them. It’s so important to make them feel safe, that they can share.

Aliw: You know, just listening to Mike and Jay, I could sense that they wake up each day not knowing what to expect, especially since they rarely get much sleep due to their children’s energy. But whatever day they’re having, good or bad, they’re constantly and patiently working to get to the root of the triggers their children have. 

Jay: And it’s like, it’s just a lot of this trying to be a detective, trying to figure out what it is.

Mike: Absolutely.

Jay: So, do you guys do anything differently whenever you have the good days with Mateo? How do you celebrate those good days with him?

Mike: Every day, they’re little celebrations throughout each and every day. Celebration is even in the form of he just wants us to get off our phone, or get off our screen, and just sit with him. Because he just wants to feel that connection. He doesn’t need to say the words “Hey, Mom, Dad, you’re on your screen too long. Pay attention to me.” He blocks our view of our screen. So it forces us to put our phone down or whatever. And then he sits on our lap. And then he’s face-to-face with me, giggling and laughing. And it’s like, “It’s my time now.”

There are times where Myra and I, we’ll have a very animated discussion. You know what he’ll do? He’ll come between us. He literally will grab our hands and make us hold our hands. 

Jay: Oh, wow. 

Mike: And then he’ll make us face each other. And then he’ll make us face him. And then he’ll start giggling. 

Jay: Layna actually did something, not quite like that. This was one of those very early mornings, where she’s very happy. It’s 3am, (she) doesn’t want to go to sleep. Gem was watching something. And Layna went up to her, looked at her phone, and Gem thought, “Oh, maybe she’s interested as well at what I’m watching.” She leaned over, pressed the pause button, (and) put the phone away. 

Mike: Wow. 

Jay: It’s like, I guess in a way, she’s telling mommy to “pay attention to me,”  right? 

When she does things like that. And then she looks at you with her big round eyes. It’s like, she doesn’t have to say it, you just know it. We celebrate when we get those moments with her.

What are some, you know, difficult truths that you’ve faced over the past six years of having to tell other people, explaining to them your child’s diagnosis? And did you have to do anything particular to overcome those?

Mike: One difficult truth is that, even though Mateo can’t use words, he will express himself vocally and he can do so loudly. Right? Very loud.

Jay: I can relate to that.

Mike: Even though there might have been these weird or uncomfortable glares or stares coming from others, it’s still important for us as a family to make Mateo feel like, “You know, maybe you’re a little bit loud. But don’t worry about what other people may be feeling at this time. Because we want you to feel comfortable wherever you’re going to be, wherever you go.” So it’s not so much talking to other people and trying to get them to understand Mateo.

Jay: That’s what we eventually figured out – that it’s really her being happy. It’s the way that she expresses her happiness. So we shouldn’t be ashamed of that. 

Mike: Wherever he is, if he’s at home, if he’s at Church, if we’re out and about, he knows that we’re not going to change our tone or the way that we speak to him. So that will lend to that feeling of safety for him. That, “Yeah, we’re going to talk to you the same way that we talk to you at home, dude.”

Jay: Thanks, Mike.  

Mike: No, thank you.

Jay: Thank you so much for answering the questions that I had. It really helped, gave more insights to it, and what to expect, and things that I was unsure of. Thank you for giving your explanation being further along in this journey. It really gives us that hope. It’s really been a great discussion. Thank you so much. 

Mike: Thank you. This has been so awesome. And just being able to share stories, and just being able to verbalize just really just helps me like reflect at the same time. This is almost kind of therapeutic as well.

Jay: I was about to say. You’re actually the first dad that I’ve spoken to, at length, about, you know, autism having a child with autism. And it’s been, like you said, it’s been therapeutic. It’s been good.

Mike: Awesome. Oh, that’s, that’s so great.

Jay: Thank you again, Mike.

Aliw: Mike and Jay, I just want to thank you both. It was really heartwarming, actually, Jay, to hear you say, this is the first time I’ve spoken to another dad. And with everything that you guys talked about today, Jay, what would you say was your biggest takeaway?

Jay: My biggest takeaway would be how Mike highlighted, how when we have our prayers, and we pray to Almighty God. It’s really about our child, and changing and shifting our mindset, that we are still parents, they belong to God. And we’re just there to lead them to salvation.

Aliw: Yeah. And for you, Mike. Well, you’ve been on this journey for, you know, eight years now, Mateo’s eight. Have you ever talked, talked it out, talked it through with another dad the way you did today?

Mike: It’s the same thing with me. This is by far the most, aside from Myra, the most that I have talked about my son, and our family life. And it was truly therapeutic, to really just not only hear, but to feel those ideas that have been in my head, and in my heart for eight years. So, thank you.

Aliw: Why do you think it’s just as important for dads to get emotional support?

Mike: Silently suffering. Right? Part of that, because as a head of household, as a father, as a Christian dad, like, you’re expected to, to provide for your family, but that’s not just materially. You have to be there emotionally. And if you want to, if you’re somebody who’s always kept your emotions in check, you’re not going to be the leader you need to be. It’s important to talk freely in that way with your spouse. It’s important to be that active listener for your spouse, but especially for your children.

Aliw: So you’re both functioning with no sleep. I admire the fact that you are both and your wives are so much more in tune with your children, as opposed to parents who may have quote, unquote, normal kids. Those good days, where they’re not having a tantrum today, or those good days, while they actually, you know, slept for five hours instead of just two you both take these small moments, these micro blessings. And really, never taking them for granted and realizing, wow, this is God’s blessing for us today. If autism was not in your life, how different of a dad would you be?

Jay: Somebody once said to me that we’re blessed with special children because we’re special parents. But I like to say, or I think what we’ve started to see is that it’s our children that helped us to become special.

Mike: We’ve come to learn how to communicate with Mateo, how to try to understand him, how to help him. This is what we are supposed to do as parents anyways. And I mentioned this before, it’s also helped us in how we have been raising our daughter, as well.

Aliw: You both talked about how autism has helped your communication with your spouses, has helped you be more aware in using the right words, and you know, energy and empathy with your child, so how would you say your journey has also changed your relationship with God?

Mike: Our prayers have to shift. Even though God knows exactly what we’re thinking, but to take what’s so deep in your heart, and to just lay that out for God to receive? I think that’s another big change. Being a man, if you’re going to be emotionally accessible for your family, all the more you have to be that way to God. As a Christian dad, everything that I do, everything that I say, every mistake that I make, is going to impact my entire family. So what are you going to do? You can’t get them to salvation if you don’t keep working on your relationship with God. Because you’re accountable to Him for the sake of your family.

Jay: I don’t want to say that I wasn’t as trusting before. But I feel like I’m trusting even more to God’s plan. As long as we have our complete trust in our Almighty God, and we remain faithful, we have our prayers, and we continue our, you know, our devoted services to Him, He’s going to take care of us, He’s going to take care of Layna. 

Mike: We continue to grow in our prayers. The thing is, though, we can’t stop serving Him. And you know, and over the last couple of years, and in part of the needs of our local congregation because of this pandemic is, you know, I just felt encouraged to do more to help out my local congregation as well. God’s given you so much, what can you do more for him as well?

Jay: That’s another thing I just realized also. You’d think that someone who’s just found out that their only child has been diagnosed with autism, and the challenges that’s presented in front of you, you’d think that oh, they won’t have time to take up any more duties. And for both Gem and myself, we’ve actually taken up extra duties in, not only in our local congregation, but also for our district.

Aliw: Thank you both. Thank you so much. My kids are older, but I’ve learned a lot from what you both have shared, and I think that there’s so many parents that can really learn a lot from this, whether or not they have children on the spectrum. So, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing your heart. And thank you for trusting, Making Changes to tell your story. 

We’re glad to have been able to help you with your therapy and you will be getting the bill in your email. I’m just kidding. Thank you guys. 

Jay: Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Aliw.

Mike: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Aliw: Hope you both get some sleep!

Aliw: Special thanks to  Mike and Jay  for taking the time to share their stories and life lessons with us. And if you found value in what you heard today, please share it with a friend or a dad who may be experiencing what Mike and Jay are going through. And we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on wherever platform you’re listening from. Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes.  For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church Of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app. 

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you. 

Making Changes: Expressions of Gratitude

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Tita Bong, how are you?

Tita Bong: I’m fine, Aliw. Thanks for having me.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, you’re so welcome. We invited you today because nearly 30 years ago, you did something for us. And it was so simple. I’m sure you never even thought about it.

Tita Bong: That’s way too long ago. That’s a long time and you think at my age I’ll remember that, right?

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through, and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia, Pablo.

Aliw Pablo: Today, we’re continuing our Thank You Series, which are surprised calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life. It’s simply a chance to say thank you.

Aliw Pablo: And this time, it’s my turn to show my gratitude. Today, I get to thank someone who was responsible for my love for Broadway musicals. Okay, but first, let’s set the record straight. I can’t sing. But you know, there is something about watching live stage musicals. It’s the stories, it’s the writing, it’s the music. It’s really storytelling at its finest. And my husband, Jason, I mean, I would, we would have never discovered our love for stage musicals together, and passed it over to our kids, if it wasn’t for this person you’re about to meet. And all this because of our aunt Eva, or who we fondly call Tita Bong. Come meet her!

Aliw Pablo: Theatre for stage musicals. Do you remember what year that was…kind of?

Tita Bong: Oh my gosh, what show was it?

Aliw Pablo: It was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. I think it was 1993, 94 was definitely mid-90’s. And I was in college, I think at the time and you know, and we had never, you know, Joy, and I, you know, my sister, we’ve never really been exposed to musicals, or live stage or anything. And I remember you asked us, Hey, do you guys want to go usher and we’re like, usher? Oh, sure. And, you know, you even allowed us to bring our friends. You allowed us to invite their friends. It was all free.

Aliw Pablo: So Tita Bong was a paid staff Usher at the theaters here in San Francisco. And when they were short staffed, they were allowed to invite volunteer ushers, and all we had to do was pass out playbills and show people to their seats. And once the show started, whatever empty seats there were, it was ours.

Aliw Pablo: But you exposed us to musical theater that I don’t think we would have ever been exposed to. I mean, Filipino parents don’t necessarily encourage their kids to go watch musical theater. But it’s something that, you know, Jason and I, we both really loved it. It was our first time seeing any kind of musical theater, we pass it down to our kids. And now that the Church has lots of stage musicals. I really believe that that’s why our kids are so excited every time there’s stage productions in the church, because we had exposed them to musical theater. And it’s all because you had exposed us to musical theater. So 30 plus years later, Tita Bong I just wanted to say ‘thank you’ for that.

Tita Bong: Oh, my goodness, you’re most welcome. I haven’t done it. I mean, that was back in. I started back in 1981. ‘81 was when I first started at the theater and like you for an initial introduction like that, I was hooked also.

Aliw Pablo: Right. What was your first musical?

Tita Bong: My very first musical, which I did not usher, but I was exposed to was the… I was in London on a training program. I was brought to… we were brought to see Fiddler on the Roof in London.

Aliw Pablo: Fiddler on the Roof. That was your musical.

Tita Bong: Yes. That was my very first musical introduction to the theater. I mean, and from that day forward, I mean, just like you, I was hooked. But I started ushering at the Theater in San Francisco in 1981. I lived in a residential hall close to the theater and one day my friend said that there was an announcement about the theater next door, which is that the Golden Gate Theatre was looking for ushers. I said, usher? Okay, so usher.  When I got to the theater, jeez, I saw the theater– huge.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, it doesn’t look much from the outside, but when you go in?

Tita Bong: Yes, it was huge.

Aliw Pablo: What’s amazing for me is being able to see what they can, how in two hours, they can tell a story that transcends time, in a small stage. And yet you’re basically, you know, run back in time transformed and the storytelling and the music, right? And it’s just you’re enthralled as you’re watching it versus watching it on the screen. For you, what has it been? How have you been able to have such a love affair with stage musicals all these years? From Fiddler on the Roof. You know, starting from the late 60s.

Tita Bong: Yes, that was. I love music. I mean, I love music, I am happy to sing. I play the guitar. Well, I played the guitar. So I really like music. And it’s just amazing how those characters come alive on stage. It’s just the things that they do on stage and backstage. It’s just amazing.

Aliw Pablo: For as long as I know Tita Bong, she’s always worked at the theater. But this was the first time I heard about all the famous people she’s met who’ve come to see the shows.

Aliw Pablo: So I’m sure you’ve seen all sorts of different things. You know, having worked in the theaters for 40 years or so. Have there been any interesting instances you’ve had with different people, maybe even famous people?

Tita Bong: Yes, yes. There was one I was… I was ushering in the orchestra in the middle of a row. I saw Robin Williams.

Aliw Pablo: Wow.

Tita Bong: And I saw Oh, Robin Williams! And Robin, just instantly said, ssssh, you know, motion to me to be quiet. Oh, and one person that really left a good impact on us, the ushers, specifically, was Lena Horne. Lena Horme made it a point to give us each an autographed picture of all the ushers. We asked why, why of all the people and we learned that she was an usher when she was, before she was a big star.

Aliw Pablo: Big actress, yes. That’s so sweet.

Tita Bong: So she had this special place in our hearts for ushers.

Aliw Pablo: And also, I kind of want to just pivot to how you know, when I started watching musical theater, you know, there wasn’t anything like that, really, at the time in the church. I remember the very first any kind of stage musical type that we got to see here was a 30th anniversary, which was in 1998.

Tita Bong: Right. I remember that.

Aliw Pablo: So that was a big deal. That was a big deal, right in 1998 for the Church to be able to rent this huge I think it was the San Jose Convention Center. That was the first time that we rented a venue that big for us to put our own show, ‘98. And now, my kids, they’re always in stage productions of the Church’s. What can you say about just how music has evolved in the Church, but specifically, stage productions in general in the Church from the time when you were growing up in the Church to when I was growing up to how it is now you know in 2022 or in the 2020s?

Tita Bong: Yes, I mean, in fact, I was so impressed. I think the first time I saw it I was watching the productions of the Church. Now I said, wow, we’ve really evolved because I think during our time, we even had to rework only presenting Filipino folk dance. Yes, so I think eventually when I saw that it was starting to have all these new songs. Some of them were even written by the kids, the brethren now. I was impressed. I was so impressed.

Aliw Pablo: At this point in our conversation, we’re able to reflect on how far musical production has come in the Church Of Christ. And I’m so glad that my kids are able to be part of all these amazing creative projects..

(song lyrics)”…please send us a Minister to teach us. Who can lead us in our name…”

Aliw Pablo: I know, in the Philippines, they’ve done, you know, productions like that already in the arena with the orchestra playing as a full on musical on any of their stages much bigger in the arena, right? Then, for example, in the theaters here, and here, you know, it’s now they think about it, the very first musical we had here in the States was 30 years in the West, which was in 1998 and I did the video directing for it. And I have to say, had you not exposed us to musicals in 1993, if I hadn’t seen those musicals beforehand, it would have been really scary. And then fast forward to the 50 years in the West, which we had here, just, you know, four years ago now.

…give me patience to wait for you to act, the right to fight for the faith…

Aliw Pablo: It has really helped a tremendous deal in being prepared for, you know, video directing those types of productions.

Tita Bong: Yes. And I think it’s the exposure, the exposure to such productions that produces also the interest in the youth to create their own musicals, you know, and I’ve also seen how the Church’s orchestra?

Aliw Pablo: Yes. Yes.

Tita Bong: That is so impressive. We have so many talented musicians in the church, when I saw that…

Aliw Pablo: Oratorio

Tita Bong: Yes, I saw that. Oh, wow.

Aliw Pablo: And we had that in the Philippines in the arena. But the one in New York, we just had one a few years ago in New York.

[oratorio bit]

Aliw Pablo: You know, it’s really amazing, right? How far music transcends all generations and, you know, thank God that we’re doing the same thing and exposing our youth to those types of productions.

Aliw Pablo: But just, I just wanted to say thank you, Tita Bong for walking down memory lane with me today. And I, you know, I know I’ve said thanks before, but I wanted to publicly thank you for being here.

Tita Bong: My pleasure.

Aliw Pablo: The impact, and really the change in us being exposed to musical theater in a way that we would have never been exposed to had it not been for you back in the nineties.

Tita Bong: I’m glad I made an impact on you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, too.

Aliw Pablo: I want to entitle this episode as Thank You for the Music.  But thank you.

Tita Bong: Thank you.

Aliw Pablo: We’ll see you soon. We’ll see you soon.

Aliw Pablo: Special thanks to my aunt Eva, or Tita Bong as we call her. And I’m glad that 30 years later, I’ve been able to not just say thanks, but to really reflect on the huge impact that her one gesture from decades ago has had on my life. And we’ve all had those moments, you know, where someone does something kind for us that we never forget. But sometimes we don’t always get to see that person again to say thank you. So here are a few stories from our team here at INC Media Studios, and the people they’d like to thank for changing their lives.

Michelle: I want to say thanks to Miss Nancy Ecker. She was one of my English teachers in high school. And she was a fantastic teacher who made books come alive for me, as nerdy as that sounds. But I remember when I was in grade 11, she would recommend these books for me to read. During winter breaks and spring breaks. She would lend me these books from the book room. And they were just books that helped me as a teenager. You know, I was going through a lot of like, teenager stuff at that time, very angsty. And those books kind of helped me deal and understand what I was going through. And she was also really encouraging when it came to my writing. She was very supportive and really encouraged me to pursue literature and writing post high school right after high school. And I took a few detours. But, you know, I eventually ended up here and INC Media, telling stories, connecting people with stories and writing about what matters most to me. So thank you, Miss Acker. Thank you for your encouragement. Thank you for being such an amazing teacher and leaving that mark with me. Up to this point, thank you.

Renezen: I want to say thank you to a wonderful stranger named Adriana from Petaluma, California. I wanted to thank her for the kindness she showed me on October 13, 2001. I was at the San Francisco International Airport when I got the news that my dad had passed away from a sudden heart attack. I was stunned and in shock, did I yell out,did I cry. I’m not really sure. To be honest, the details are a blur to me. But what I do remember is Adriana walking over to talk to me, she must have heard or seen my distress. And instead of turning away she came over and introduced herself. She asked me questions about what happened, where I was from and told me she was from Petaluma. She stayed with me until it was time for me to board my flight home. That was the last time I saw her. I think about that moment from time to time, and of the kindness and warmth she showed me at that moment. I hope one day I can thank her in person, but this will have to do for now. Thank you Adriana.

JJ: I would like to thank my high school teacher, Mr. Green, he was actually my teacher for computer science and computer engineering. And back in those classes, he would actually enroll the students in the class in competitions for computer programming, robotics. The way he would help us and teach us approaching these competitions was how to tackle problems differently. He was very encouraging for us to find the solution now in our own ways. He really sparked in us the ability to search for ourselves instead of providing answers for us. And it really helped me in my way of looking for solutions to problems and problem solving.

Christine: I’d like to thank Emma Solberg and her family. I met Emma Solberg in junior high. And her family would take Emma’s classmates, including myself, to different trips up and down the East Coast, for art galleries, for museums, and also to Shakespeare festivals. And that opened up to me the world of you know, literature and the arts. And that’s what I think pushed me to become a film studies major, and make the arts part of my career.

Brother Joe: I wanted to say thank you to Miss Taffy Patton, an elementary school teacher whom I had long ago. She helped to spark in me a love of learning that continues to this day. She helped to nurture my creativity. And I can honestly say that her genuine concern and personal approach to teaching, would help to inspire me to also take that path that led me to becoming first children’s worship service teacher as a teenager, and now minister of the gospel. She was more than just a teacher. She was a great mentor, and a great friend. And her enthusiasm for guiding her students towards not just understanding the material, but in achieving excellence is one which all teachers, whatever subject they happen to teach, can learn from. I know that I certainly have. And so thank you so much Miss Patton, for everything that you’ve done. For your great influence in my life, and in the lives of many students who have been truly blessed and fortunate to have encountered you in their studies.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories of change and gratitude. Now is there someone that has made a huge impact in your life that you’d like to thank? We’d love to hear from you. Send us a direct message on our Instagram account at Making Changes Podcasts. And we’d love to try and connect you with an old friend, classmate, mentor or anyone who you want to thank. So if you found value in what you heard today, be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you’ll always be up to date with the latest episodes. While you’re at it, feel free to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Thanking My College Counselor

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Jan.

Jan Valerio: Hello.

Aliw Pablo: Can you believe it? You finally made it on the Making Changes podcast.

Jan Valerio:  I know.  (singing) Some people wait a lifetime for moments like this.

Aliw Pablo: I didn’t know there was a singing contest on the podcast.

Jan Valerio:  That’s why they won’t ever let me man a podcast. But now that I have the chance I’m going to sing.

Aliw Pablo: This is Jan, a senior producer here at INC Media. And today, she’s gonna thank someone who she hasn’t seen in nearly 20 years.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, do whatever you like. So tell us who are we talking to today?

Jan Valerio:  Today we’re talking to Sheldon TaKwata, who I like to call Mr. T. He was my college guidance counselor. And he was the one who helped me dream myself out of Kalihi. A small town in Hawaii. I never thought I was gonna leave the islands.

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.  Welcome to season2!  Whether you’re listening to this while driving, working out or walking the dog, we’re so glad you’re choosing to spend your time with us!  So we’re starting this season with a “Thank you Series”  – it’s basically surprise phone calls or video calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life, and it’s a chance to say thank you.

And today it’s Jan’s turn, who was born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii and we’re calling her community college counselor  Mr. Sheldon Tawata, also from Hawaii.

Aliw Pablo :Are you nervous about seeing him? When was the last time you saw him?

Jan Valerio:  I know last time I saw him was when I left Kapiolani Community College.    But yeah, he helped me to reach my goals. Having the opportunity to say thank you to him. It’s actually kind of exciting.

Aliw Pablo: So in one sentence, How did Mr. T change your life, you think?

Jan Valerio:  How did he change my life? He changed my life in a way where there were I could see opportunities. I  really started taking school seriously after I met him.

Aliw Pablo: Okay, well, I think it’s time let’s, let’s go ahead and see if Mr. T is online.

Jan Valerio:  Okay, I hope he remembers me. It’s been a long time.

Aliw Pablo: All right. Let’s see if Mr. T is on. Thanks, Jan.

Jan Valerio:  Thank you. Thank you for making this happen, Making Changes podcast.

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Sheldon. How are you?  Thank you so much, Sheldon, for agreeing to do this, you know?

Sheldon Tawata: No, it’s my pleasure. Oh my gosh.

Aliw Pablo:  Yeah. Were you surprised though, that you get a random call about a former student from years and years ago?

Sheldon Tawata: You know what you told me the year? I couldn’t believe it was that long ago but it still, seems like yesterday, we’re sitting in an office together trying to figure out her leaving Oahu. Which is mind blowing still.  think as you probably know, any youth leaving Hawaii, that’s a huge, huge step, but huge.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah. Jan refers to coming to California as coming to America. Because, you know, the mainland for her is America. You know, moving to… Yeah, it’s a big step. It’s a big step.  Well, without further ado, here’s your former student, Jan Valerio. Jan, come say hi.

Jan Valerio: Good morning, Mr. T!

Sheldon Tawata: Oh, my God!

Jan Valerio:  This guy is the man.

Sheldon Tawata: So leading up to this day, you know how images come up in your mind? You think, Okay, this student did this, or this student did that. And I don’t know why this image stuck in my mind. And this could be true Jan form. But she probably won’t remember this. But when she was at KCC she would have her scooter on campus.

Jan Valerio:  Yes.

Sheldon Tawata: And go from one class to the next. I thought, too. Is she that lazy? And just joking?

Jan Valerio:  No, that’s true.

Sheldon Tawata: But I thought there was no one, no one on campus that did that. And so when I saw that, I thought, That’s Jan, you know, didn’t really,

Sheldon Tawata:  That’s the true Jan form. Like she is who she is she is going to do what she’s going to do. She doesn’t care what other people think. That’s Jan.

Jan Valerio:  Yes, Mr. T, yes, I did have a scooter. I can’t believe you remember that?

Jan Valerio: I barely remember that. But now that you bring it up, I’m like, Yes, I did scooter on campus all the time.  So I wanted to thank you, Mr. T. for being part of this podcast when Aliw said that the theme of the podcast was a Thank You series. You were the first person that popped  into my head.

Sheldon Tawata: Oh, my goodness.

Jan Valerio:  Because I’m being honest with you. Every time I find myself, in a spot where I’m like, man, you know, I’m in a good spot in my life. I love what I do. I always think back to how Mr. T believed in   me, because I have to, I don’t remember, if I told you who I was in high school, I wasn’t a good student, I did the minimum. And when you’re doing the minimum, the teachers I grew up with, they would say things like, “you know, if you don’t have good grades, you can’t go to college.” “If you don’t have good grades, you can’t go to even a vocational school, you can’t do this, you can’t get a good job.” So in my head, I was always thinking, there’s no opportunities for me because I, I wasn’t motivated. My outlook was small. So the only thing people were telling me was like, go to community college. But my grades and my confidence were so low that I was thinking, what if a community college doesn’t even accept me? Until one day during the summer before transitioning to KCC (Kapiolani Community College.) There was a little dream in my heart, like I had bought a camera. And I was starting to film things and putting things together. I was like, this is interesting, maybe, maybe there’s something for me here in broadcasting, or I knew I had to do broadcasting or film. And then I remember walking around campus, (Audio fades)

ALIW VO: It all began with a flyer that Jan saw on one of the campus bulletin boards that had a happy face on it that made her go see a counselor. That’s how she first Mr. Sheldon Tawata who encouraged her to check out SF or San Francisco State University to pursue a major in Broadcast Journalism.

JAN:  And you said, “Have you heard of SF State?  I said, “No, but that sounds fancy.” And then you said, and then you said, “I actually came from there.” And I looked at you with bright eyes. And I was like, Oh, this guy came from the mainland, he knows he has experience he can teach me. So you’re giving me this whole two year plan for me all these classes to take. And then at the end, it was kind of overwhelming for me, This was the first time you even looked at me. And you’re like, Jan, this requires some hard work. I looked at you and I said, “Okay, you think I can do this?” And then you said, “Can, Jan, can.” And then I said, this is the first time anyone has ever told me, “can,” because in high school, they said “can’t.” But after talking to you, and you said, “Can” I was like, maybe, maybe there’s hope here. And then I walked out of that of your office thinking. Maybe it’s just today I feel motivated. But then you emailed me and you said, Hey, how’s it going? Come to me once a week, so we can make sure you’re on the right plan. So I started coming in once a week.

ALIW VO:  And from there, what began as once a week counseling session, became 3x a week for Jan. Everytime Jan had challenges with her classes and felt like giving up, Mr T would tell her  “just stick to it, Jan” and he even found a tutor for her for classes that she was struggling with.  And   when it came to financial aid assistance, he helped her fill out all the required paperwork and even told her what to expect once she moved to the San Francisco Bay Area.

Jan:  “…where you’re going to live Jan?” And I said, “I don’t know.” And you said, “I used to live in Westlake it’s foggy there. But it’s okay. And it’s close to SFC, you can take the BART.” I was like, “What is BART?” They don’t have Aloha the bus? And then you said, “No, I may have BART it’s like a train” and I said, “I’ll take that train, mister?” You’re like, “yes.” Like you never sounded annoyed. You’re so encouraging. And then you just, you just helped me. And it’s, what…20 years later, I always think back to how blessed I’ve been in being able to have this career. I work in nonprofit. We work for Christian media. And it’s been such a blast – this journey, doing the job that I love being able to have the college degree to help in this type of meaningful work. So I’m thankful to you. And I actually this is very full circle for me, Mr. T, because Aliw is actually the one who introduced me to this type of work. So she was the one who planted the seed in my heart, and you’re the one who helped me execute it. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you went to SF State, I feel like it was all aligned, and God made it happen this way. And to think I never thought that I was going to leave the islands. I never thought I was going to leave Kalihi. But God had other plans. And He allowed me to cross paths with Aliw and you. So I’m thankful actually, to both of you.

Sheldon Tawata: You know, what’s amazing about that story is I always, I don’t know, maybe this is the reason why I’m on high blood pressure  medicine because every time I meet with students, I want to make sure that they are doing the best for themselves. And the thing for me, even as a parent, you want to intervene, you want to dare I say control, because you just want to make sure that folks are living a healthy and fruitful life. And so to be on the sidelines, I gotta tell you, super stressful. And so when you mentioned “Hey Mr. T I think I want to go to the mainland.” I was like, “Okay, let’s go.” But my palms are sweaty, and my blood pressure’s high. But in my but I think like with all of us, there’s this degree of faith, right? You just have to just kind of believe. But the fact that you’re in this place right now makes me so unbelievably happy. Because the thing that I feel people don’t know what they have inside themselves is resiliency. And that goes a long way. And so Jan, if you think if you can think back to the moment, not the moment you bought your… Well, let’s think back to that point. Think back to the moment you bought your plane ticket. Was it a one way ticket or two-way? Was it a round trip or one way?

Jan Valerio:  It was one way.

Sheldon Tawata: What did that feel like?

Jan Valerio:  Honestly, I was scared. Because like I said, like you even mentioned, this is a new place. This is why I’m leaving everything I know. And do they even speak my language too? Will they understand Pidgin? Will I learn English? But…

Jan Valerio:  But yeah, like, buying that plane ticket was scary because it is a leap of faith. But I kept thinking, you know, God brought me to this point. Mr. T believed in me. But you know, there was a time where I was here after six months, and it was foggy an d I was like, “Ha, I’m gonna go home. I know more money for  my financial aid is running out.” But I’m gonna come home as a loser. Nah. I don’t like come home as a loser. You know, I’m gonna stick it out. I’m gonna stick it out.

Sheldon: So at your six month point, like what made you push through?

What really pushed me to stay. I was able to get a tuition waiver for SF State that allowed me to pay my tuition. I went to the registrar’s office to see how much it would cost because my family was having financial difficulties at the time too. I’m waiting for some crazy amount. And they the lady at the registrar’s office said $3, and I was like, what?”  $3! I said these four full time classes. And she was like, yeah, $3 and Mr. T, I kid you not, I had $5 in my pocket. And I gave it to her. I didn’t question her or anything. I went home…

Sheldon Tawata:  And you got change back then.

Jan Valerio:  I got change back. When I went home, I checked my status online. And it said that I got a tuition waiver, which is something I don’t remember signing up for how I got to this day, but I do know that it was through my prayers, because I kept praying and I said, you know, God, should I stay or should I go, and this was a clear sign for me to stay. And so, being at this point right now, I’m like, after that I was like, I just gotta keep going. I just gotta keep going. Because the signs were clear, like having you helped me. And then once I was here in SF, having that tuition waiver, it was like, all signs point to “yes.”

Sheldon Tawata: Oh my gosh. So as you probably know, I’m still working with youth.  So this past August, I think I will make 20 or 21 years at KCC.But in the mean, there’s what’s neat about my job, everyone has a story to tell and what makes being in my profession such a gift is that I get to hear everyone’s story. But what always fills me is when they talk about it. s word up again, as resiliency when I hear their story of how they’ve overcome all these challenges and just kind of push through. It’s just simply amazing. It’s just I can on a deeper level understand because I too, similarly, I went to Roosevelt High School, I wasn’t supposed to graduate. I was told to go rake leaves instead of go to class. I was told I’m better off just hanging out in the vice principal’s office versus the classroom. I understand what it feels like to be told you can’t do this. Understand that attention is sometimes taken away from you because you don’t shine like the others. But to me, I just have this heart felt natural connection for those who have to fend for themselves, who have to dig for resources, because it’s almost a survival thing. And to watch them struggle, which is very uncomfortable for me. But to then see them succeed is like the best gift ever. And so, knowing that, when…

Jan Valerio:  You say it’s a gift for you, it’s also like a gift that keeps on giving. And like, like, it’s been years, but I still remember you. And every time I think of you, I’ve always I always think you have been such a great blessing in my life. And it’s, I’m always an advocate when younger people are like I’m lost or whatever. I’m like, talk to your college counselor. Talk to your guidance counselor. But yeah,  talk to someone, talk to someone. It helps.

Jan Valerio:  Yes, yes. Thank you, Mr. T.

Sheldon Tawata: It’s my pleasure. And oh, my goodness, this couldn’t have been a better day… better year. You know, this is just amazing.

Sheldon Tawata: Thank you. Again, I can’t thank you both enough for this opportunity to be here.

Aliw Pablo: Well, I’m just going to jump in. I know Jan’s really modest and she’s not going to tell you these things, but coming from Kalihi, Jan has traveled the world just to find stories to tell. We’ve gone to South Africa, we’ve done documentaries there. We’ve gone all over Asia. We’ve gone we’ve gone to Australia, and maybe after this Jan was shared with you, but coming from Kalihi, a girl who doesn’t really speak English. She’s actually our producer. She’s our senior producer for one of our shows called Faith Speaks and it’s basically a TED talks for young people. And, you know, she helps write and coach them, helps do their story arcs and mold their stories and so, yeah, she’s really come a long way. And what she’s been able to contribute to the world, to us here at INC Media and to the people whose stories she’s told you know, that’s the impact from you, making time, sitting down with her a couple times a week, and making sure she worked hard and got the sand out of her hair. And just went to work. But what I wanted to ask Mr. T, see, I’m gonna call you, Mr. T now, is that OK?

Sheldon Tawata: That’s totally fine.

Aliw Pablo: Okay…you mentioned that you’ve been doing this now for over 20 years?  What is it that keeps you mentoring and helping students like Jan, and those who are lost and helping, carry them, and telling them, “look can, can, can,” you know, and just giving those three letters makes such a huge difference?

Sheldon Tawata: You know, I truly feel that we have this, we have this huge bank of change agents. And some people know it, some people don’t know it. But I feel like every person I meet, they have the ability to make this place, make this world a whole lot better in whatever, whatever contributions they make, be it in media, sport, whatever. And I think when I see that spark happen, like in Jan’s case, when she just kind of saw the potential that’s out there, that, to me, is the motivation. And to see that as my job, I mean, if you can imagine my job is to see people grow into the person that they want to be. And I think that’s what keeps me going. And, Jan, I know, were you and your sister the first in your family to go to college? Did your parents go?

Jan Valerio:  Yes, we’re the first. My sister went to college, and my mom was like, “are you gonna go to college? Are you gonna make something of yourself?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” But yeah, it was a big deal.

Sheldon Tawata: Yes, even though I still meet with youth today, where that conversation at the dinner table doesn’t happen, like, what do you, what do you see yourself five years from now? Where do you see yourself 10 years from now? I think the conversation is more, how I am going to pay the bill tomorrow. And so to hear that, I mean, it crushes your heart. But when you see those that just work hard. They embrace reality, and then they try to make that shift. Yeah, that’s what keeps me going.

Aliw Pablo:  And also, to your point that the conversations happening at the dinner table isn’t so much about college, but rather, how are we going to pay the bills? In fact, there’s studies right, that show that less and less kids after, during because of the pandemic, or going to college, because of the financial strains that pandemic has brought to families. How different or how much more challenging is it today to work with students because of how much of the world has changed also, higher rates of depression and things like that, mental health compared to almost 20 years ago, during Jan’s class?

Sheldon Tawata: Certain things are just totally changing. It’s becoming okay, now, how do I redefine everything? Now I, because I don’t know what the future truly looks like. And so to me, conversations I had with Jan are very different now because it’s more, how are you able to reshape the next, the next move or how you better reshape what your next plan is going to be?  Folks always had the ability. But now more than ever, you have the ability to be even a huge change agent because you can rewrite the script now.And so knowing your tools that you have, whatever passion that you have, how can you make it your own now because again, you can write your own script, And to see them struggle with that it’s still stressful. But to see them come up with possible solutions is also exciting. I mean, I only saw Jan, up until like, maybe her third year of college. And after that, it’s like I had to let her go, I had to let her kind of venture, I gotta let her fly. And then it’s like, Okay, I hope she’s gonna be okay. And so that’s hundreds of students like that. It’s like, okay, I have to let them go. And then just see how they do. But I always tell them, I’m always on the sidelines for you. And if you ever need to come back to reconnect, to just be a soundboard, I’m more than happy to just kind of hear your story. But that part of even now watching them take flight, in light of everything that’s happening in this world– but also kind of a joy to see what they’re going to do.

Aliw Pablo:  As a counselor, what would be your advice to students who may be listening to this, but maybe they don’t have a guidance counselor to help them. But what would be your advice for the first step in them wanting to create a change to start their future?

Sheldon Tawata: Talk to Jan and own a scooter. Nah, just joking. That seems to be the secret. But, I think it would be…talk to someone, it may not have to be a, like a college counselor or guidance counselor or whatever, but someone you trust, someone that, you know, won’t pass judgment. And having that space where you can lay out all your ideas on the table, and just have a dialogue. I think that’s where it starts. Because then you’re then in a place where you are, again, free of judgment, and you’re just kind of flowing with your thoughts. And then I think that’s a start.

Aliw Pablo: Would you say that God put Mr. T in your life for a reason? When you look at the path that God has laid out for you, how much of it was divine guidance, you think?

Jan Valerio:  Oh, definitely. I prayed a lot about my future. And I remember the moment I was inspired to do the work that I wanted to do. I started praying and that’s when I met Mr. T.  And I believe God sent him there. He was a blessing in my life. God put him there.

Aliw Pablo: Well, this was so awesome. I want to thank you both. And you know, Mr. T, when she spoke about you, she just had such, you know, like, a glimmer  in her eyes and so you should have seen her eyes when I said, hey, guess what he called back. He’s got to be on this show. So you know, you said she’s made your day, she’s made your year. I think for Jan, it’s even more so, huh, Jan? This is your dream. This was your dream, number one to be on the podcast. And number two, to get Mr. T on.

Jan Valerio:  Mr. T, I always work behind the camera behind the scenes. I think they think I’m a liability or something when I’m on so, now I’m on!

Aliw Pablo: You can attest to that of all people right, Mr. T?.

Jan Valerio: And I’m so excited to share this platform to be able to thank you because you’re not I know when I left. I said thank you. I emailed you when I left. I said thank you. Maybe five years afterwards, I emailed you again. And I was like, thank you. But I think I will never we’ll never stop being thankful for what you’ve done for me. Like I said before, in high school. There were a lot of can’ts. You were the only one who said “can.”

Sheldon Tawata: Thank you so much, Jan. This is very special. Thank you. Thank you.

Jan: Thank you Making Changes for making this happen!

Aliw Pablo:  Special Thanks to Mr T and Jan, for being part of our thank  you series. Gosh, this episode just goes to show what a difference one person can make in changing someone’s life.

So if you have a “Mr T” that you’d like to thank for making a change in your life, send us a message on our Making Changes instagram account. We’d love to hear from you  and maybe even have you both on the show!

If  you enjoyed  what you heard today, please share it with a friend and we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on whatever platform you’re listening from. Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes.  For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo  Church of Christ,  log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

No Transcript Available

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Hi, everyone, welcome to Episode 10 of the Making Changes podcast. Episode 10 already! I can’t believe it. Well, we just want to say thank you to all of you who have listened and have messaged us to say how much certain episodes have moved you and helped you go through a change in your life. So as we close out Season One of Making Changes, we wanted to do an episode that looks back at all the conversations we’ve had, and some life lessons that have been learned and shared. And it’s been great hearing from our listeners on our Making Changes Podcast, Instagram account. And here are some of the messages that we received from you on some changes you’re ready to make.

[Music starts]

Merck: A change I am ready to make in my life, just to become more physically active. 

Mia: …is to only take on what I can handle. And I really, really want to do the best and everything that I set my mind to.

Morgan: I heard a saying on the radio the other day, and they quote, “When a flower doesn’t bloom, you fix the environment around it. Best change you can hope for can only come from God. However a change in the scenery and perspective can replenish your hope.”

Brainard: One thing that I want to change is finding the balance in my everyday schedule.

Kath: …less overthinking, work less, and pray to God. 

Also, more planning and sticking to it with discipline and not insisting on my devotional prayers. 

Michelle: In our society, we tend to shame people a lot. And I don’t want to do that anymore.

[Music ends]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: It seems at the time of quarantine has really helped people to step back and look at parts of their lives that need changing and improving, especially when it comes to relationships. And speaking of relationships, we’re going to do something a little different in this episode. My co-host today is Martin Zerrudo who’s going to tell us about the exciting new season for Heart & Soul, another very popular INC Media podcast. 

Now, Heart & Soul is a podcast about real conversations with people around the world about love and relationships guided by the words of God. So I thought it would be kind of neat for us to reflect back on Season One of Making Changes while talking about what we have to look forward to for the new season of Heart & Soul. So join me in welcoming Martin Zerrudo. Hey, Martin.

Martin Zerrudo:  Hey, Aliw. Man, thank you so much for having me. First of all, congratulations on the amazing Season One of Making Changes. Really amazing. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Thank you!

Martin Zerrudo:  Oh, you’re very welcome. No, thank you. It’s refreshing content for all of us who have yet to kind of look at life through that kind of lens or perspective or filter. So it’s, it’s really interesting, every single episode and you know, since we’re on the topic of Making Changes, and quarantine and pandemic…

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No, I was going to say, well, here in California, where we’re from, you know, things are kind of opening, have opened up actually. And we’re kind of slowly moving back to normalcy if that’s what we want to call it, new normal, but I know they’re in Toronto, where you’re at, you know, you guys are still pretty much in quarantine, aren’t you?

Martin Zerrudo:  Yeah, we’re not making any changes at all. We’re staying exactly in the same place.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  No changes, huh?

Martin Zerrudo:   No changes, no change, no color changes, no zone changes, or stage changes. We’re just, we’re just staying at home changing our clothes, I guess what we’re doing. So I mean, I think hopefully, we’ll get there in some shape or form of normalcy. But in terms of those changes, what would you say to yourself in the craziness of this past year and a half or so, what has been the biggest change for you?

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  You know, when quarantine started, right? Last year, I think, I mean, there are so many statistics that show that people really got to spend time doing things they wouldn’t normally have time to do. So I think for me, one of the biggest changes is obviously number one, I’m spending more time with my family, talking to my kids more, my husband more and you know, thank God, we still really like each other. And, I think the biggest change is just also making the conscious effort to actually go for a walk every day. And that’s actually when I really got into podcasts was during quarantine because going out for going out on a walk with a dog and just having more time for self-improvement things whether it be really making the time to work out, making the time to journal and praying more, quarantine has really forced us to stop and think about things that we normally didn’t have time to think about. 

Martin Zerrudo: For sure.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  I know you guys are still in quarantine mode. But what has been the biggest change for you this past year, you think? I mean, you’re still a newlywed, you know…

Martin Zerrudo: I am. We’re still in year two. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Year two. A newlywed in quarantine. What was that like?

Martin Zerrudo:   So we got married in 2019 in October and then a year and a half of pandemic. So within this pandemic, I got married. Me and my wife–we started off in my bedroom on a twin bed in a townhouse with like, seven people, so super cramped. And then we moved twice in the pandemic. And then and yeah, so it’s been a lot of changes.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: A lot of changes

Martin Zerrudo:  A lot of changes, but you know, what I think I’ve realized is–the love has changed. I think the love between family members: you’re around them more often, because you’re at home, the way that you communicate, and the way that you live your individual lives in the same space has affected the way that you interact so much. But the love changes because you kind of grow in understanding, and definitely in patience. Whether it’s me and my wife, getting to know each other in this new stage as a married couple, between me and my brothers, and my sister-in-law, me and my parents because we all lived in one space at one point. Yes, so the love changes. But I think in a positive way because it kind of forces you to explore areas of your relationship with your parents and your siblings and your family and your friends that you never would have had this pandemic now forced us in these unique living situations or restrictions or methods of communication. 

Like I never thought there would be so much value just looking at my friends like looking at you, in this video call even though it’s just digital. That means something now to so many people because we haven’t been able to see each other because he can’t fly, he can’t travel, he can’t go out of your home or your city. So yeah, the love has changed. But I think it only enhances, and kind of makes you, just realize how special the physical time face to face time and the ability to spend time with people, how much that really matters.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I think when you say the love has changed, the love has made us definitely more grateful for the people that we still do have in our lives. For both of us, we’re blessed that both sets of our parents are still alive and with us. And so I think, you know, during the pandemic, my parents are both retired and they live three blocks away from me with my sister. And so, you know, they really couldn’t leave their home for a long time. And, you know, there was such a protectiveness that we then take on when it comes to our elderly loved ones, right. And so I think overall, the loss of life has made so many people just change in perspective and gratitude and appreciation, and making time to actually to think about that, you know, and for us in our family prayers, we often say that, “may we never take for granted any of Your blessings. Whether it be the small blessings or big blessings…” because there’s really no small blessing…

Martin Zerrudo: For sure.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: …since tomorrow is never promised.

Martin Zerrudo: And a great way to kind of appreciate and never take for granted that kind of blessing. It’s just being able to talk about it.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes.

Martin Zerrudo:  Talk about what it’s somebody who maybe has never heard of those blessings that you’ve gone through or that you’ve received. And so when it comes to the Making Changes podcasts and those kinds of conversations, and the blessings that your guests discussed, what would you say or do you have a favorite conversation or episode about those kinds of perspectives and blessings?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Gosh, after every episode, we always say, “That’s my favorite episode.” 

Martin  Zerrudo: That’s the best one. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: That’s the best one, right? And I think that’s what’s been so great. The blessing of this podcast is we, in one season, tackled, kind of some really, really depressing types of subjects, whether it be grief, death, chronic illness, homeschooling your kids as teacher moms, our most recent one is moving away from home and college. I think there’s not really so much that they’re really depressing, but rather, topics, or conversations, that not a lot of people are having because they’re hard, because they’re sad.

Martin Zerrudo: Right.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So I think every single one is a favorite episode simply because it’s a conversation that we need to have. Maybe some people may not want to listen to it right now because it’s too heavy. But when that time in their life comes, they’re going to have to face grief. We hope they remember Oh, wait a minute, making changes did an episode on that. Let me take a listen. You know, and it’ll still be there and they’ll still be relevant. But talking about relevancy. I think our most recent episode about, you know, being strong Christians while away in college, I think for me, was a favorite one because I’ve got two college kids here at home. They’re not moving away from home. But they’re at home. And I really, and they listened to–one of them listened to it. And I also think it’s because of just where I am in my stage in life, where I have a lot of friends who are right now facing the empty nest phase, right? So I just really feel like that episode is a favorite, because it’s going to help so many people.

Martin Zerrudo:  You know for sure, there are so many different methods of saying goodbye in different ways in which you’ve had to say goodbye, especially in this last year and a half. But particularly with that episode, where you’re saying goodbye to your kids because they’re transitioning to another stage in their life. What are some of the fears that you have, as a mom knowing that eventually, they’re going to want to have to leave the nest and venture off and start that next space?

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  You know, as a parent, there are so many different fears, depending on the stage of the child, right? When they’re walking, you’re fearful that they’re going to grab something and put it in their mouth that they shouldn’t have. And then they’re going to choke and all that stuff. And then now they’re walking, now they’re out in the world, in school, and you’re worried like, Is someone going to bully them, and then they’re in high school, and you’re worried about peer pressure. So at every stage as a parent, there are always worries. So I think right now with where they are in their lives, I’ve told them this directly, too is that sometimes the fear is, they end up being a person that we don’t even recognize anymore. Like, wow, you’ve changed so much, I don’t know who you are, is this the child we raised? Are they going to remember everything we’ve tried to teach them spiritually–when it comes to faith, when it comes to values when it comes to dealing with people when it comes to dealing with problems because this generation of kids, they’ve grown up with, everything they could ever need and want in life, right? Versus, for example, the way my husband and I grew up, right, we, you know, they always say, with every generation, the parents always want to give their kids more than they ever had. 

Martin Zerrudo:  Yes

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  So I think the fear is for them to take for granted what they have. And not take time to look at the blessings and only focus on what they don’t have. Because for me, if you have gratitude, you have gratitude to God, your gratitude to those you love. That is more powerful than whatever struggle or suffering you’re going through. Because gratitude is what will ground you back, pull you back, rein you in, to really step back and have the perspective of like, man, I am still blessed.

Martin Zerrudo: Definitely.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I may be going through A, B, C, and D. But look at the overall picture. I am so blessed. So one of my biggest fears is my kids won’t have grit in life, and easily break.

Martin Zerrudo:  Right.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  And not be able to know how to handle struggles and failures. So that’s it. Strength, right? I always pray for strength for them. And to make the right decisions and to always choose wisely.

Martin Zerrudo:  Definitely. So many lessons: a lesson of gratitude, a lesson of strength. Were there any other lessons? Or was there one lesson when it came to your guests? Or a conversation that you had on Making Changes that really helped you? Or did those conversations really support those lessons of gratitude and of strength and resilience?

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  You know, I think with every episode, even though our guests didn’t necessarily all know each other, right, but if you listen to their stories, their stories are so similar in the sense where yes, I was a nurse in the middle of a pandemic. Yes, it was hard. I was worried. You know, my kid got sick. I was worried. Am I gonna get the virus and that… but I just made sure I prayed before my shift, after my shift, and then I just had that confidence. Or another episode, you know, yes, I was diagnosed with cancer as a 10-year-old. Yes, it was hard. I went through this, this, and this, but I prayed, and I knew that God was with me. So now I am much braver than I thought it was going to be. 

So resilience, I think resilience and bravery and courage, the number one, comes in different shapes or forms. It can come with a nine-year-old child diagnosed with cancer, or it can come with a seasoned nurse, dealing with a very busy Hospital in New York who,  just inundated with COVID cases. But at the end of the day, no matter what the person’s life context is, it’s the faith of that person, how it grows and develops, but that every challenge that our guests went through, even though it was hard at first, in the end, they were thankful for it.

Martin Zerrudo:  Nice. And you know, it’s funny, there are so many more stories of thankfulness out there. And so when you look back at this First Season of Making Changes, what would you say you’ve been most thankful for? And what do you have to look forward to for the next season?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Honestly, I’m just thankful that people were willing to sit down and talk. And some of them we met for the first time on the podcast. I was just thankful that people were willing to share their stories. And that I’m thankful that we have this platform. We have this platform to talk about things that are hard conversations that maybe people aren’t having within their small circles. But if it means that they can listen to this podcast and get the advice that they can get, while they quietly struggle, then I feel like we’ve, this podcast has done its job and really strengthened people’s faith, strengthened their resilience and their courage and faith, faith in God overall. 

[Music starts]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Martin, what was your favorite episode of Making Changes? Oh oh, now we’re going to test you.

[Music ends]

Martin Zerrudo:  Man, well, you know, I have to say, the most recent one only because it just makes me recall a time. So I went to college, two times, for two completely different majors. None of which I’m really doing. But that’s okay. That’s a different story. It’s a different podcast episode. But I remember I didn’t really have a set group of friends, I didn’t really always hang out with only you know, hey, you want to hang out after class. I was just there for the course. 

Take the class, take the test, whatever, and then leave. Take the exam and then leave, hand in the assignment, then leave, go to the lecture and then leave. On the last day of college, they like, “Hey, we’re all graduating from this program now. Do you all want to go to the restaurant and eat?” So I was like, “Okay, cool. I’ll go.” I don’t really hang out with those people. But I went, I’m like, “Okay, now we’re not going to see these guys again, probably. So let’s just, let’s all eat.” And I’m just, we’re all having fun. And I’m like, “Okay, I’ll loosen up”, and I’m making some jokes, and they’re laughing. And they turned to me, and they’re like, “Martin, how come you didn’t hang out with us more during these last four years?”  And for a second, I was like, “you know what I should have, right? Because this is so much fun.” 

But then it made me realize sitting there in that restaurant like my goal was never to create a new or find a new community of friends–is nothing wrong with making those connections. There’s nothing wrong with relying on each other to get through the challenges of post-secondary life, whether in university, a community, a trade, school, whatever. It’s hard, and it’s obvious you’re in the trenches together for four years. 

So you’re seeing these people going through the same thing. So you rely on one another. But for me, I already had that. I had that with my brothers and sisters at Church, I had that with my loved ones and my friends in the Church Of Christ. I had that. So I guess I didn’t really need to do that. And then the second time I went to university, I did even less, I barely talked to anybody else. And I just wanted to go to class and then I left. When I listened to that episode, where one person went to Korea and another was moving, so they can go to the University of San Francisco, you can really tell from one of the guests, the one who’s about to go to university, she’s like, wide-eyed and super excited and ready to go. And the other one, who has already gone through that experience, is much wiser than it was like, yeah, this is what you see around you. There’s a drinking culture in Korea, and everybody’s going out all the time. And I totally relate to her because that was never, that doesn’t really it’s not really your objective. It’s like one of those things that they sell you like, hey, college is gonna be the best years of your life, you’re gonna have new experiences.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No. That’s a really great point. You know, as members of the Church, I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about being part of our INC family is that we already have that, right? We have that in our different local congregations. But I’m glad you bring that up. Because that was one of our questions in the podcast, how crucial is it? To have friends in the Church while you’re in college? You know, because I think that’s one of the things that if you don’t have that if you don’t find that community in the Church with like-minded Christians, young Christian friends, you’re gonna go look, go look for it elsewhere. Lucky for you and me that we have that because we didn’t need the college experience to provide that sense of community for us.

Martin Zerrudo:  Absolutely. And I just want to point out there will never be a moment for anybody in this world who ends up going to college or university where you will be 100% prepared. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, not directly related to college, but you know, your whole thing about looking for answers and being confused in life, whether it be in college or just life in general. You know, our very first episode of Knowing the True God with Ahmad and Naima was, I’m so glad we started the season with that episode because it was really profound, you’re really talking about seekers, right? People who are siblings who didn’t know the other one was seeking, right, but just… everyone is going through something and they think listening to this is definitely one of my favorite episodes, listening to these two siblings who absolutely adore each other, absolutely respect each other. And just that act of love right, that Ahmad shared with his sister that totally completely changed her life.

That was really profound to kind of sit back and listen to them, talk about it, and reflect and recount what that time of their life was like. And I think with this show, that we do a lot of reflecting. And a lot of reflecting on things that some people may not have actually spent time thinking about. You know, even the episode with Brother Donald Pinnock and his son, Brother Daniel, they’re at two opposite ends of the world. But when they were talking for the podcast, it’s like they were right there and just picking up from where they left off, because they’ve already had such a strong bond. But you know, it’s again, it’s those conversations that if people aren’t having them, we hope they do. We hope they have them. We hope they have that conversation with their dad or their mom because they listened to the sweet and honest and really loving conversation that Brother Donald and Brother Daniel had so there are so many. And then like with Ahmad and Naima hopefully someone actually messaged us and said, “Hey, because of that podcast, I reached out to my brother, who I haven’t talked to…”

Martin Zerrudo: No way.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. “I reached out to my brother, who I haven’t talked to in a while.” So, wow, okay, I didn’t think that was going to be one of the impacts or the results of it, but praise God, right? That it was able to have that kind of impact on people.

Marin Zerrudo:  So what do you have coming up for next season?

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  Well, we don’t have all the episodes lined up yet. But we are hoping to explore topics like conversations for women in the workforce. How do you assert yourself as a competent and confident woman but still, as a God-fearing servant of God? Like, how do you do that in the workplace? So we’re hoping to get a mentor and a mentee since this is really what the show is about. And also, we’re hoping to explore conversations and how people have dealt with racism in any, or any kind of prejudice that people may be experiencing, and still, be an honorable Christian through it all. And honestly, I don’t know how many seasons we’ll have with the show. But there are endless hard conversations that are waiting to be told and heard. And, God willing, it can help so many more people out there. So you know, that’s us for Making Changes. But you know, as we close out our season one, you’re starting your new season of Heart & Soul. And I know you have so many fans, Heart & Soul hardcore fans that are just waiting to hear what new conversations they’re going to be listening to. So what’s up for this new season of Heart & Soul?

Martin Zerrudo:  Speaking of reflecting, the show has been around for over five years. And over five years now. And shout out to Lois Paula, who’s a co-host of mine, for the podcast. And you know, five years later, we’re still talking about love.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: That topic will never go out of style. 

Martin Zerrudo:  Never. Because somebody falls in love and gets their heart broken every single day. You know, and for members of the Church Of Christ, especially in 2021, speaking of love changing, oh man, talk about how much it’s changed. The method of communicating how we feel, communicating how we don’t feel, how that relates to romantic feelings to feelings between friends, between somebody who has a different belief or faith in you. And so in terms of our next season, some of the topics that we cover to Dear Future Husband, Dear Future Wife, was an amazing social media post that we put on our INC Media News Instagram account where we just asked, “Hey, leave a message to your future husband or future wife, you may, he may find someone they may be able to look back on this one day when you find that special person. And what I hear through the grapevine is that there were a couple of couples that were formed from that Dear Future Husband, Dear Future Wife post.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes, I did hear that as well.

Martin Zerrudo:  So we turned an episode around or we created an episode around that conversation, of the kind of person you hope to find and the role your faith and trust in God plays in finding, the one who God intends for you to be with.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: ​​Do you think from the conversations that you’ve had all these seasons of Heart & Soul do you think that movies and media in general, do you think it’s really kind of tainted, the people’s view on the realities of love and relationships?

Martin Zerrudo:  Yes, I think it’s a great question because when you look at RomComs, is it art imitating life? Or is it life imitating art? And that I guess, that permeates our relationships because should I act this way cause I saw it in this movie, so I guess I have to be that so that when you start seeing that in movies and TV shows, then, of course, members of the Church Of Christ watch that and say, “Hey, is that normal? Hey, is that okay?”

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But do you think that going back to that question of change, in just perspective in social media, I think more so now, it’s not even so much the influence of movies, but just social media in general, people’s friends. Do you find that those who are not in relationships and because of social media, they see their other friends who are in relationships or who are getting engaged, and they’re not, do you think that in itself actually has a stronger impact on people more than your usual Hollywood movies?

Martin Zerrudo: For sure. Because there’s this concept of FOMO (fear of missing out), right? You watch a movie once in a while, great, you might feel like “Man, I wish I was the leading person in that movie. I wish I was going through what they’re going through.” But then we’re now in 2021, you go through your phone, and it’s like, what, six hours a day where you’re seeing what everybody else is doing that you feel like either you should be doing or you’re missing out on fear of missing out. And a lot of that when we’re talking about relationships definitely falls under FOMO of wanting to be with someone as well, because all my other friends are with people. 

And so one of our episodes, Is God Leading You Into a Relationship. And one of the topics or sorry, that topic really addresses the process in which you’re finding out with this person is whether or not you guys are a good fit. Are you forcing it? Or is God showing you red flags? Because it’s funny when we talk about the things that we pray for, and things kind of just falling into place. God didn’t force you into a good position or good part in your life, he didn’t force you into a great job, he didn’t force you into a good place in your life. So why would he force you into a relationship? And yet we see that happening all the time, where two people are like, “Oh, I don’t know if this is gonna work out but let’s just keep going. Let’s just figure it out as we go along.” But why force it when every other blessing in your life that came from God wasn’t forced?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And I think that’s what I love about Heart & Soul is because there are questions that provoke thoughts that really make you go, “Hmmn.” That really makes you stop and think and reassess right? Reassess your actions, reassess your feelings. Reassess your relationship in a way that is still of Christian value and Christian in nature versus listening to what the world is telling you to do.

Martin Zerrudo:  Definitely, definitely. And you know, these conversations, they happen already, in a bus stop, they happen in a coffee shop, maybe not so much right now during the pandemic, but they happen. And there’s so much insight that you can gain from that. 

Now, imagine if you had that conversation and there was a minister there to provide biblical verses to contextualize God’s teachings and the things that you’re going through every single day. And, you know, five years and running, that’s what Heart & Soul has been able to do is really take those day-to-day conversations you’re already having, and add that spiritual guidance to steer us in the right direction. Because I’m never going to say even though I’m the host and the producer that I have answers. I’m never going to say that my advice, or that I’m ever going to give advice to our listeners, it’s really just a conversation. And the guidance at the end really is the star of the show is the words of God.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. And I think that’s what’s so great about it is that at the end of every episode is that you do have that spiritual guidance, and it feels like the Minister is right there next to you, I mean, they’re in your ear. But yeah, it has, it’s such a, you know, you’ve provided such an intimate setting when it comes to the listeners and to where they really feel like they are the subject, that the advice being given on the show is specifically for them, into them. So, kudos to the Heart & Soul team. 

Martin Zerrudo: And I just want to say thank you, thank you so much. But you know what, at the end of the day, kudos to the Church Administration, really, I mean, for all the different ways and platforms that this could have been addressed. They’ve allowed us to use podcasts, so that whoever may be listening to this episode right now, wherever you may be around the world, hopefully, in whatever stage you are in life, that this content is helpful to you, that’s inspiring to you. 

And I just want to say whether it’s Heart & Soul or Making Changes, the intent of the content that we created in INC Media Services is the same and that our content is just a method of providing inspiration so that they can have a stronger and healthier relationship with God in His teachings. So whether it’s Heart & Soul, Making Changes, The Solution, I’m very thankful that it’s able to exist in the platform and in the world that is INC Media Services and CEBSI because that’s why we wake up in the morning and produce the content that we produce, is to be of service to people like, whoever may be listening.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: We are just, we are so, so blessed. And we are indebted really, you’re right. We’re so indebted to the Church Administration for allowing us to have all these shows and all these platforms, and to be able to reach out to brethren all around the world, in whatever stage they’re going through, whatever season they’re going through in life. Well, thank you so much, Martin Zerrudo for taking the time…

Martin Zerrudo:  Thank you.

Aliw Garcia Pablo:  to have a heart and soul conversation with me because I feel like we just had one. No, but you know, you and I, we go way back, and you are a true friend. And we work together, day in and day out. And we really do wake up in the morning feeling so grateful that we get to create such life-changing content for people and be able to share it, right? There’s just nothing more fulfilling than that. 

Martin Zerrudo: Absolutely. I do have one last question. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. 

Martin Zerrudo: If I may? 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Go for it. 

Martin Zerrudo: If we were on a Making Changes episode right now, which we are I guess, and I’m younger, Aliw Pablo who used to work at that newsroom going through that footage with her hand manually, going through scripts manually, what would you say to her? What would you say has been the biggest change from that Aliw Pablo in that newsroom to the one recording a podcast right now at home?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow. That is a good question because…You know, it’s funny because I went into TV news because I wanted to tell stories. Yes, I was this, really young, wide-eyed, and bushy-tailed 19-year-old working newsroom. And then I found out oh, my gosh, this is so… my stomach would turn you know, every time I go into the newsroom because it’s a really stressful place.

People aren’t very nice during live shows. But, there was one thing that someone told me back then when I was an intern, and I was bulking tapes, bulking tapes is where you’re just erasing tapes. That’s when they were using tapes for the photographers. And he said, “You know, if you want to make it in this business, don’t ever be afraid to ask questions, because someone will always be more willing to help someone who is going to ask a question versus someone who thinks they know everything.” And that piece of advice, to be honest with you, really carried me through working in TV news, working in the advertising world, before working for the Church full time. Because to this day, at age 40, I’m going to be 48 years old, right? I am constantly wanting to learn. I am constantly trying to learn new things. I mean, you know this, I’m constantly sending you stuff like “Hey, check this out. Listen to this podcast I heard, read this article I just read.”

But there’s something about just wanting to constantly learn and always be relevant and always be of service. And mind you that young girl in the TV newsroom, I didn’t know, I was going to end up working for INC Media Services. I didn’t know that that’s what God had planned for me. But I feel like that, you know God, allowing me to meet that person. And putting that piece of advice in my mind has carried me through all these decades of being, I consider myself a creative servant, and being able to really create content for the sake of serving and for the sake of helping others. 

And so I would have never guessed in a million years that this is where I would be. But also I would have never guessed in a million years just how amazing God would be and he would answer all my prayers and make all my dreams come true. And my only prayer and my only dream at the time as a young person was to be able to tell stories. I first started working for the Church and I think I told you this, my only dream at the time was I want to be able to hopefully one day tell stories of people, of brethren all over the world. And who knew the internet was going to come around. And to this day, this year, this month is my 22nd year of working for the Church Of Christ full-time. And we’re still telling stories. 

[Music starts]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Thank you so much, Martin. You are truly a joy to work with and a friend I love to chat with. So thanks for making the time and good luck. Good luck with the new season of Heart & Soul. I will definitely be listening. 

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much. 

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So everyone, be sure to tune in in the new season of Heart & Soul which you can listen to the INC Media app or Google or Apple podcasts and even though we are taking a break from the Making Changes podcast, be sure to follow us on our Instagram account, Making Changes podcast for updates on when season two will begin. See you next season and thanks for listening and may your change uplift you

[Music ends]

Sophia Espiritu: So I wanted to ask you, what do you think is the funniest thing that you did at the hospital that kept you busy and let time pass by?

Myla Cunanan: When I was in the ICU, I was always making slime. So I opened up a slime shop where nurses and doctors would stop by and get slime from me.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Meet Sophia and Myla, perhaps the two most amazing young ladies I’ve had the privilege of knowing.

Sophia: Well, there is a lot of boring time spent in the hospital. I did have a lot of hobbies at the time, I used those adult coloring books. And I would make lions with vibrant manes.

Aliw: They are childhood cancer survivors, philanthropists, and just overall inspiring young people. But on second thought, I don’t think the word inspiring will do justice in describing them.

Myla: So, we did have a band aid drive, where I donated different kinds of band aids to the hospital. I also had a book drive, where I collected a lot of books and donated it to the school in the hospital.

Sophia: Well, in 2018, the same year I got diagnosed, I felt like for my 10th birthday, I want to give back to the community. So then I was trying to think of something unique, like, okay, a lot of people give out candies, and they do give out quite a few things at the cancer center. So I wanted to not repeat that same thing.

Aliw: Whatever it is you’re going through in life right now and maybe you need a pick-me- up. Make the time to get to know these two faithful young souls and I guarantee you, they will give you the kind of change in perspective that we all need to be reminded of during those tough days. And, oh, these girls, they’ve had their share of tough days. 

[Show Open]

I’m Aliw, and you’re listening to Making Changes. Today’s episode is a pretty special one. Because it’s not often that we get to meet people like Myla and Sophia. I’ve known Myla for many years now, and Sophia, I’ve yet to meet in person. They’ve never met each other in person either. But they’ve led such parallel lives that when Sophia’s mom heard of Myla’s story, after Myla was in remission from her cancer, Sophia had just been diagnosed. And so their families have been a support system for one another. 

Today, you won’t just meet two young ladies, but they’ll give us insight on how to help a loved one or friend who may be going through a sudden life changing ordeal. They’re going to give us tips on what to say, what not to say, and what love language to use during such a difficult test in someone’s life. You will surely laugh and cry. So get your tissues ready. Let’s listen in.

[Music ends]

Sophia: Hi, Ate Myla, I’m so glad to be talking with you today. Do you remember the time that we first met? I remember when my mom told me about you and we watched your story.

Myla: Yeah, I remember the first time we FaceTimed. I felt very happy that you reached out to us. And I was glad that I was able to connect with you and just was able to help you.

Sophia: When we did, I just felt glad to connect with you. And glad that I could talk to another family that had such a similar experience in the hospital. I’m so glad we’re both happy and. healthy. And we both beat cancer and congratulations on the kidney transplant that you got. 

Myla: Thank you!

Sophia: So altogether, how long do you think you spent in the hospital?

Myla:  Well, I’ve been in and out of the hospital since 2014, until I had my kidney transplant, but probably about two to three years altogether.

Sophia: So how do you think cancer changed you?

Myla: How did cancer change me? It made me more positive. Also, it made me grateful for a lot of things, like you. And most of all, I trust more in God now. And yeah.

Sophia: Yeah, I think cancer definitely changed me. I feel like I don’t think it made me braver. This is a hot take, but I think it just showed me how brave I actually am. Not to flex or anything. And I feel like after that, I just realized how grateful I am for everything. Like, the day before I was supposed to start chemo, I just remember like, “Wait, I’m not gonna be able to go to a buffet again” because you know, like, there are a lot of germs at buffets. And I mean, everyone at my church, they always had celebrations at buffets. So just after that, I definitely wen to more buffets. So I, it definitely changed my perspective on the world, but for the better. Well, I’m glad we got to talking. And hopefully after this pandemic, I can come over to California, and just give you a big hug.

Myla: Me too. I hope we can see each other in person soon.

Aliw: Hi, guys. Hi, Myla. Hi, Sophia. How are you? 

Myla and Sophia: I’m good. I’m good. 

Aliw: And as I’m listening to you guys, I I feel like I’m listening to two very wise, young women. You don’t even speak like your age, because you’ve been through, you know, you’ve been through more than most adults, you know, two, three times your age would have gone through. But you know, I just wanted to ask Myla you were 10 right? When you were diagnosed with Sophia, you were 9- 10 or so? You’re nine. Okay. 

So do you think your friends treated you guys any differently? Once you got sick? You know, because you guys weren’t able to hang out with your friends as much as you used to before especially with having to be careful, having the need to be careful, right with germs and things like that, that you guys mentioned. How was it like? How did your friends treat you differently if they did while you were sick? 

Sophia: For me, I feel like I just remember that first day after I was in the hospital. And I was diagnosed and I came into the classroom. And everyone shouted my name like “You’re back!” And actually someone at my hospital comes to the school and can talk to your class or your grade about this thing. Like they were able to find a way for us to connect. And I feel like my friends–they were able to understand they were third graders but they were able to understand enough. I’m glad they still treated me basically the same except for that little being more careful. Other than that, we just still had fun together.

Aliw: What about you Myla? I know you were in the hospital much longer in and out but how did your friend stay connected with you? 

Myla: My friends and classmates were definitely very supportive and understanding with my cancer. Some of them will actually come to the hospital and visit me which is really nice. 

Aliw: Oh, nice. 

Myla: Yeah, some would send cards or gifts and my class, my whole class, my fourth grade class, and my teacher, they actually took time–part of their class, just shopping for hats, different types of hats for me. 

Aliw: Awww, that’s so sweet.

Myla: Because they knew that I was gonna lose hair, of course. So they chose different styles to see which one I would like.

Aliw: Oh, that’s really sweet. What would you, you know, if there were other kids who maybe they have a friend, or maybe they have someone close to them who’s  battling an illness, whether it be cancer or anything else–What advice would you give to them on what they should say? Is there a right or wrong thing to say to someone?

Sophia: There’s nothing really wrong to say, because most people that have illnesses, and you’re saying something to them, you know, they know that you’re just trying to help them. But I do feel like there are some things that can be improved upon, like… 

Aliw: Such as? I like how you said that can be improved upon, such as?

Sophia: You can talk to them about what’s happening, but you don’t have to smother them, you don’t have to be like, you don’t have to be their parent. In retrospect, you don’t have to come over like, oh, how are you? Oh, Here, take this, take this, take this. How…do you need me to call the nurse or something? Are you okay? You can ask them occasionally, like, “Oh, hey, how have you been?” Just like you normally would, they might talk about the illness or not. But don’t just be cool about it. Just be relaxed about it. Don’t be so upfront about the illness because again, they’re still just a, they’re still a regular person. And I don’t have any way to end that. 

Aliw: Okay, just just be yourself basically.

Myla: Like, Sophia, you know, just be yourself. And just talk to them like you regularly would. Because, you know, just because we’re sick, it doesn’t mean we’re different. So just treat them regularly, and try to be positive.

Sophia: A lot of people tried to be very serious, like, especially the doctors and the nurses, they come in like, “Hey, how are you?” with those pity eyes, as we talked about the pity look, and they’re going to be very serious. Like, it’s almost as if they’re afraid to be happy. But then, I feel like on the other hand, you really need a good mix of those things. Because since that happens, it feels like it makes them feel like they’re sick. Really. It makes them think, “Oh, I’m sick. I’m not supposed to be happy and be laughing.” So if you can walk in to your friend’s hospital bed, say, and don’t walk into the hospital bed, walk into the hospital room. 

Aliw: Wow, that’s deep. Don’t walk into the hospital bed. Walk into the hospital room. Okay, you’re gonna have to clarify that a little bit. 

Sophia: No, that’s just don’t walk into bed. 

Aliw: Oh, you mean like literally don’t want a bed. 

Sophia: Don’t walk into the hospital bed, walk into the room. 

Aliw: I thought you were being symbolical or something. Okay, got it. Got it.

Sophia: If you’re able to laugh with them. If you’re able to make jokes then it’s like, “Oh yeah” It’s like, “we’re friends.” We’re able to communicate. And that helps them think like, “Oh, yeah” I’m, as I said before, “I’m still a regular person.” I’m not labeled as that sick person. I’m labeled as a person, just a person.

Aliw: So we’ve done other stories of both of you before. Myla, we’ve done Stories of Faith on you and Sophia, you’ve done a Faith Speaks. And in your stories, you’ve both said that you never felt alone. You know, during your ordeal during your treatments when you were hospitalized. Can you tell us? How come you never felt alone? Like what was it that was going on inside you that you knew that you never felt alone? Who wants to go first?

Sophia: That feeling when God is with you, it’s just a feeling deep down in your soul. Like a 1000 teddy bears, the big ones from the carnival, the big ones that you need a lot of points for, but just 1000 of those wrapped around you. And I feel like that can be put in many different forms. 

Like, sometimes it’s just by yourself when you’re having some of some thoughts like you’re thinking, and then you, all of a sudden you feel this, you get this wave of warmth and care. Sometimes, it’s when it’s with other members of the Church. Whenever I’d go into the worship service, when I had cancer. Everyone was checking up on me. And they were like, “Oh, hey, are you okay? Are you okay?” And I’d be talking to them. Like, they just care for me in so many different ways, actually, like, especially actually the anointing of oil, which I’d get. I think every week, the minister would have an anointing of oil with me. And again, just this feeling like these people are caring with me, what is caring for me, God is helping me and caring for me through this tough time.

Aliw: What about you, Myla? What were your prayers like? 

Myla: I’d ask for strength and for courage to help me overcome my sickness and my pain and to be healed. So that and so that I have strength to serve God. 

Sophia:  My prayers, just guidance, really guidance. Because before this, I was just like this lunatic who would be running around. It’s a much different feeling once I was diagnosed, and it’s like, okay, now we have like, next the next level of life, and now we need to just get past this part. Like, let’s just keep going.

Aliw: When you were diagnosed when you guys found, you know, heard the word cancer, and you’re you’re just a kid, you know. Myla you were 10, Sophia you were 9. Did you ever think, like, “God, I’m just a kid. I’m only 10 and I’m only nine. And I’ve got this big adult, you know illness?” Um, did you ever ask “Why me God because I’m just a kid. I’m just a little girl.” That ever cross your mind?

Sophia: Barely. Maybe if it did just a second or just a minute, until I realized that I was worshipping the true God. So this wasn’t for bad reasons. If anything, it was just a test, or just something physical that happened. It was just going to be a test. And I’m not the only one. Like, I know that Ate Myla went through this. So then I realized that it’s all going to be okay, we’re just gonna have to see how the road is going to be until we reach our destination, healed. You know?

Aliw: Destination healed? How about you, Myla? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

Myla: Not really, maybe for like a brief moment. But I just thought maybe this is God’s will. This is God’s purpose for me. And, and He just wants…and it’s just a trial in our life that He wants us to overcome.

Aliw: And when you, Sophia, when you met Myla, or when you saw Myla’s story, and you were going through your ordeal, and she had already, you know, had passed her treatments and everything. What did you think when you saw her look at her? She’s doing fine. What kind of hope did that give you?

Sophia: It made me think that again, I’m not the only one. And if I do get past all of this, I also won’t be the only one. But that’s because of God’s help. And again, seeing Ate Myla and all these other kids even. And I would hear, overhear them. I’m in the lobby, I overhear them. Like, “Okay, we’ll see you next year.” And it’s like, “Whoa, that kid, he’s already done. Like, he’s not going to be here for another year?” And just seeing a bunch of people and hearing all these stories about like, “Oh, all of these guys got past that. So why shouldn’t I and especially, I’m a servant of God.”

Aliw: What advice would you have for someone your age, that may be going through something tough?

Myla: To always be prayerful. Pray for strength and courage and always trust in God and what He could do for you.

Aliw: Sophia?

Sophia: You know, when the movies, when it just pauses, it just freezes. Like, don’t just stay within like that one room and keep thinking thoughts to yourself, or you’re gonna go crazy. Get other people, talk to other people, even the nurses if you have to. Just go talk to the nurses and your doctors. I feel like since we had this experience that happened in our life, I want to become a doctor when I grow up. So I feel like that empathy will help with those patient encounters, like being diagnosed with cancer, it’s like, “Oh, you’ll be fine. I went through the same thing.”

Aliw: So Sophia said she wants to be a doctor because of her experience to help others. What about you Myla? Have you thought about what you want to be when you grow up?

Myla: I always wanted to do something that had to do with kids. So I thought about it back then, like before I was sick I always wanted to be a teacher. But after my experience, I want to be a child’s life specialist. They’re kind of like a mix between a social worker and the school teacher. I guess I mean, that’s how I could describe it. They stopped by and they will give you like, if you need… if you’re bored though, like give you stuff to do. If you need someone just like to stay with you in the room. They would stay with you. Or sometimes like when I would have like a big surgery coming up. They would call the child life specialist to explain things and just like to help you be calm about it. 

Aliw: Now, in a way, if you never had cancer, do you think that you guys would have thought about these things? As are your future and what you wanted? 

Myla: Not at all. 

Sophia: No, I don’t think any…Well, maybe the doctor part, but not anything close to, like where I am now, none of the experience or the feelings or if I didn’t have the cancer, I wouldn’t be here right now on this podcast for the cancer episode, right? And I wouldn’t get to meet you, Ate Myla. I wouldn’t be all over. I wouldn’t have been on Channel 4. That was a good day. I left early from school.

Aliw: Well, I just want to thank you both. You know, I’m so excited to see what kind of life you both are going to live as adults because as young people, you’ve already done so much. And you’ve impacted so many lives. And I’m really, really excited to see what else God has in store for the both of you. 

If you’ve already gone this far, and the courage and the faith and the bravery that you have. I feel like after listening to you, both people will feel like they can tackle anything. They can overcome anything with God by their side just by listening to your stories. So thank you. And I wish you guys the best in this school year and finishing up the school year. And good luck with the rest of your high school Myla. And Sophia, good luck with the rest of middle school. I know that you guys always make the best, right? You guys have taught us to always make the best of any and every situation. So thank you. Take care you guys. Bye. 

Myla: Thank you. 

Sophia: Thank you.

[Music]

Aliw: Aren’t they great?  Such wisdom and such young hearts. If you want to hear more from Sophia, you can watch her Faith Speaks episode as she talks about being brave. And you can learn more from Myla in previous Stories of Faith and Blessed Moments episodes all right here on INC media.org. Now if you want to see more of both their community service projects, check out INCGiving.org. 

As always, if you found value in what you heard today, please share it with a friend and don’t forget to subscribe to the INC Media app, Apple or Google podcasts. And while you’re at it, maybe you can leave us a review. And if you want to see the faces behind the voices, check out our Instagram account Making Changes podcast. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

[Music Ends]

RJ Dela Cruz: I got into this field because I wanted to help. You know, I was an accountant before, and I really was looking for that part of myself to help someone in the time of need and..

Aliw Pablo: Meet RJ, a surgical ICU nurse from Los Angeles, who made a career change and found himself in a new field at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.

RJ: I feel like the nursing school, it prepared you for the boards, but you know, once you get out onto the field, I felt like I was a deer in headlights, my first few shifts.

Warren Sabino: Oh, trust me. Yeah, I’m surprised that I did become a Nurse.

Aliw: RJ talks with Warren, a cardiac ICU nurse in New York with 20 years of experience and shares some advice on how to get through tough days in the nursing field.

Warren: You know, I remember one of the older nurses who retired already, they used to tell us, “Don’t take any of these things home with you.” I pray multiple times before my shift, during my shift, and then after my shift.  It’s just one of the ways that helps me cope.

[Show Open]

Aliw: Welcome to Making Changes, I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. On today’s episode, we’ll hear from RJ and Warren, two nurses from the opposite sides of the country. At the time of this recording, we were in the middle of the second surge of the pandemic here in California. They’ll talk about the challenges and changes this pandemic has brought to the lives of nurses but also the frightening reality of what happens when the patient is your child.  We’ll be flies on the wall as we listen to what helps them cope, seeing the frailties of life each and every day, for the sake of helping others. Let’s listen in.

RJ: Hey, Warren, it’s really nice to meet you. You know, they always say that no one knows what you’re going through when you’re a nurse, except for another nurse.

Warren: Well, it’s a pleasure to meet you and to talk to you RJ, as well. I know, being a nurse definitely is stressful, but also rewarding. But I’m glad to talk to a male nurse as well.

RJ: I feel like they’re seeking out male nurses now. In my cohort, because I’ve only been a nurse for about a year and a half. So fairly new. 

Warren: You’re a baby.

RJ: I want to be as experienced as you one day. I wanted to ask you, Warren. So I was wondering how it is in New York right now?  How is the state of the pandemic?

Warren: As you know, like when the pandemic hit, New York was one of the first cities that really got affected by it. And, you know, we were really suffering for those first few months. And at that time, we didn’t really know what to expect. So it was really kind of nerve wracking, you know, I never, in my 20 years of experience, ever experienced something as serious as this virus.

RJ: Just looking in, in the beginning from California. I have to admit, I was kind of skeptical. I was thinking, what most people thought. Oh, it’s just a really bad case of the flu. And then, when you actually see your first COVID patient, it opens up your eyes, you know.  You don’t understand the severity of it until you see it in person. 

In the beginning, we changed my unit. I’m a surgical ICU nurse, and we changed our unit to a COVID unit. And we changed it for about maybe three, four months in the beginning. And then our cases went down. So we converted back to a surgical ICU. And then the second wave came. Did your years of experience as a nurse, did it prepare you at all for something like this?

Warren: Well, I mean, I think when it comes to this pandemic, I think no amount of experience can prepare you for something like this. You know, I’ve seen things and done things that I never thought I would do as a nurse. And you’re used to being in pressure, stress, high stress situations, as well, I’m also a cardiac ICU nurse. You know, your experience does prepare you for but because of how unique this situation is, how we have to gown up and take the necessary precautions to protect ourselves first. 

RJ: Yes.

Warren:  You know, that was a change, like, when you’re an ICU nurse, a lot of  time is very important. And, you know,  especially when patients are not doing well, minutes, seconds are very valuable to have to stop and gown up and take that time away, and to take care of these patients who were really, really sick. I mean, it was, it was definitely a change and a different experience as a nurse. You know, our unit can only hold 20 patients, but when it was at the height of the pandemic, we were doubling people in rooms,

RJ: Wow.

Warren: If you see this picture is unbelievable, because in the hallways, you see all these IV poles with multiple IV pumps flooding the hallways.  We’re like the nurses are all over the place. You know, when you see how crazy and how busy… I mean, when I look at it now, now that it’s a little calm down here in New York, I just kept like, all of us are like, well, I can’t believe that we went down that whole thing.

RJ: Yeah, I think we kind of did the same. Or we’d have the IV tubing and everything extensions. Outside of the room. We also had the vents outside of the room at one point, or they were extended outside. So that was new. 

Warren: Wow.

RJ: Yeah, so I don’t know. Like you said, now you look back at it. It’s like, how did we do that? Yeah, how do we manage that? But we did.

Warren: Well, it can be overwhelming. But you know, you go through it. But someone who’s just starting out with only a year and a half of experience. And I couldn’t even imagine how they must have been feeling or dealing with it. Because like you said in LA it’s one of the hardest hit right now. How are you handling things over there?

RJ: You know, it’s been tough as a new nurse, but you have to realize what, or why you got into this field, you know. I got into this field, because I wanted to help. You know, I was an accountant before, and I felt like I wasn’t helping anyone. And I really was looking for that, that part of myself to help someone in the time of need. And I felt that this profession really does that, especially now because this pandemic, you can’t, your family can’t even be in the room with you.  You have iPads, you have FaceTime, you have, actually like zoom meetings with family members who can’t be in the hospital and you’re like, the patient’s family. And it’s been pretty tough. But to that point, I feel that I’m able  to stay afloat by our faith and our family. I guess in a way it was good that I’m new, cause I don’t know what normal is as a nurse yet. So, it’s like throwing someone that doesn’t know any better.

Warren: That’s a great way of looking at things actually. I never thought of it that way. I mean, like, being new to get that experience.

RJ: It was pretty hard. In the beginning starting as a fresh nurse in the ICU. Actually, the cases in California are slowing down. And now that I’m gaining patients that are non-COVID, it’s kind of weird, surreal, because, like you said, the putting on the protective equipment and the mask and the gowns, and now that I walk into a patient’s room, that’s not a COVID patient without all that stuff…

Warren: Right.

RJ: I feel strange. I feel like am I protected? Am I doing this right?

Warren: I totally agree. I mean, even after this whole pandemic is done, we’re all talking about it at work,  it kind of changed. I can’t imagine taking care of patients without a mask and a shield. It might not be COVID, in the future who knows what other, I mean, I don’t want to think that way but, you know, it’ll change the way we take care of patients. 

RJ: Yes. 

Warren: Who knows what else will be there?

RJ: Yeah, I don’t know about you but before COVID hit, I hated wearing a mask in a patient’s room. Even in the hospital, I hated wearing a mask. But now I feel like I need to.

Warren: Totally. I mean, sometimes I would do things not patient care, but things in a room without gloves. Now, I can’t even imagine, like not putting on gloves the moment you walk in a room now. 

RJ: Yeah.

Warren:  Going back actually, if you don’t mind me asking if we can just for a second. 

RJ: Yeah. 

Warren: You said earlier that you were an accountant before? 

RJ: Yes. 

Warren: Then you went into nursing. And so how did that happen? How did you become a nurse from being an accountant? I know, you said, you wanted to help people. But how did it become nursing?

RJ:  You know, I’ve always had this interest in the medical field. But I was stubborn about… Let’s face it, Warren, there’s a stereotype about Filipinos being nurses. And I was so stubborn about that. I was like, I don’t want to fall into that stereotype. I resisted it for so long. But I was stuck, I felt stuck in Accounting. So jobs were being sent overseas and I have a family. You know, honestly, it’s been a blessing, because probably a lot of people during this pandemic have been laid off. And I feel like I probably would have been laid off. If I didn’t become a nurse at this time. Yeah, it’s a blessing.

Warren: I agree. More than ever. At this time, it’s a good career choice, RJ.

RJ: There’s no turning back now, Warren. 

Warren: I know.

RJ: Honestly, we’re both in ICU and for me, there was one point where I would come into work, and there would be a patient who would just pass away every shift. And that was tough. I was taking care of this patient for at least three weeks. And that was my patient for every shift. Because the family requested me. And in the end, he passed. That really affected me. And it’s so hard to think about this now, because the family was so grateful. They even wrote me a nice letter and saying, thank you for just being there when we couldn’t because of all that COVID stuff.

Warren: I don’t know, I don’t think you can ever get used to someone dying on  your shift. You know, there are those situations where you kind of know there’s not much you can do anymore for patients. You know, I remember one of the older nurses who retired already. They used to tell us, “Don’t take any of these things home with you.” Like any of these, like when it comes to… don’t let it weigh you down.  If you can save someone’s life, you’re trained to do that. Just trust in what you’ve learned. And what I do is I always just pray every…I pray multiple times before my shift, during my shift, and then after my shift. It’s just one of the ways that helps me cope with kind of experiencing all that and not letting it affect me to the point where it affects who I am and what I do.

RJ: You see these COVID patients, a lot of them personally, the ones that we see, they don’t have anything really wrong with them, except for COVID. COVID is real. It doesn’t discriminate against anyone. We get patients who are young, and they’re in their early 20s, you know?

Warren: Actually, in the beginning, my son actually was affected. 

RJ: Wow!

Warren:  My youngest son, yeah, he was 12 at the time. He came down with a fever. And of course, at that time it’s alarming because that’s one of the biggest symptoms that you have to look out for. So when it happened, I was just like, we were kind of hoping it was just something—nothing too serious. It was just like, maybe just, like a 24 hour thing, it’d go away. And then my wife called me in the middle of my shift, I went to work. And she’s like, “He has a 104 fever.” And I was like, “What?”  You know, obviously I was kind of nervous about it. Because we’re in the middle of [a] pandemic. So, everyone in the hospital has COVID and no one wanted to spread it. So they told you know, don’t go if you can handle the symptoms at home. And he was my son, I can tell he was getting like when he sleeps, his breathing was labored. And he was just so tired. And he couldn’t even walk to the bathroom. Or if he did, he’d be so tired. If so we finally brought him in. And then the doctor,  they took some blood and they couldn’t get a blood pressure on him. 

RJ: Wow.

Warren: They were like, yeah, they were like, he doesn’t look good. I think we’re gonna send him to the ER. So he would stare me blank in the face. And he was like, “Dad, I can’t see.” And I was like, “What?” I was like, yeah, so then I was like, “Okay, sit down.” We had to [lay] him down.  We had to call an ambulance to get him to the hospital, just to the hospital. But all I could do in my mind was pray. 

I was praying so hard. When we got to the ER, in the Emergency Room and then all of a sudden they asked to, they wanted to get his weight. So they stood him up. They couldn’t get a blood pressure at all. And then they were like, you know what, “Sit back down.” And then they finally got one that was like 60 over 40, 30. And then all of a sudden, they called like a mini code. So then all of these doctors and all these nurses start rushing in. And of course, I’m from the ICU, of course I know what’s going on. 

RJ: Yeah. 

Warren: And I know what they’re about to do. But then, you know, my son just looked at me and I just looked at him, I just I go, “you’re fine.”  I was like, “they’re just gonna give you some medicine, you’ll be fine.” I just kept looking at all like maybe like five or six people were putting on IVs, giving him fluid, giving him… putting monitors on him. And then when it really hit me, they started bringing the intubation tray in and central line placement kits, all those things that you do when you get into an emergency and I was just like, “Please God.” Like, “please.” But he was a trooper, he would just look at me, I just [looked] at him. He never lost consciousness. He was just kind of, I guess, a little nervous. But I would just say, “Oh, you’re fine. No, you’ll be fine. No worries.” Finally, they took us up to the pediatric ICU, I guess during that time, they seemed like kids that were having, not COVID, but I guess they were labeling it the Kawasaki disease? 

RJ: Oh, yeah. 

Warren: Cause it was like presenting like that. But I think now they named it, what is it?  The Multi-system Inflammatory Syndrome. But after a few hours, he made a quick turnaround.  During that whole time the only thing other than that we can think of to do was to pray like I, you know, we would call some of our ministers. And I [called] every minister I can call. 

RJ: Yeah. 

Warren: Because when it comes to us, that’s the real solution, the real solution, the real treatment for us. So, I had like multiple prayers and only after a few hours, he recovered quickly. Yeah, all his medicine, they were able to go down. Like, I think we were probably in the ICU a total of two days.

RJ: Wow.

Warren: And our doctor and his cardiologist are all like, “wow, like, it seems like he never even had it.” Like, he’s great. He’s doing well, and there’s no restrictions. Like, he’s doing well. Thank God, that was probably the scariest thing that ever happened to me in my life—it’s because of that. You know, it’s just different. It’s so different when it’s your own family. As nurses we know how to take care of these patients, we know what to do. But when it’s your own family, it’s just a different experience. Like, it’s unbelievable.

RJ: When it hits close to home like that, you feel a little helpless and you just got to trust in your faith in God and just keep praying.

Warren: Totally. I mean, if it’s just, you know, God has always been good. And, I really believe that He was there for him and for our family, because even with, like, when it comes to myself,  I mean, I’ve been exposed. I mean, not exposed but dealing with COVID patients so closely, though, these almost a year, not lucky, but just blessed to be…

RJ: Exactly.

Warren: I don’t have to worry about that.

RJ: You know, I pray all the time, before every shift, before I leave the house, that God is with me. Asking for guidance, and especially to help me when I feel stressed out or any anxiety. As a new nurse, I definitely get anxiety just thinking about going into work. You know, what am I going to see today? What’s going to… what kind of patient is going to be thrown at me or what kind of situation is gonna happen at work that I don’t know how to, or that I’ve never experienced before.  But, all I do is pray and I know that there’s nothing that’s going to happen, that if He’s with me that I can’t handle. 

RJ: How do you think that this whole pandemic has changed you as a nurse, and a person in general?

Warren: You know,  just being more aware. I mean, it made this happen so quickly, and out of nowhere, and it just shows how delicate life is. Being a member [of the Church Of Christ] really puts us at an advantage. When it comes to dealing with what’s happening in the world and like during this time you’re even closer to God.

RJ: It just made me appreciate everything more. You know, it just appreciate your family, appreciate being able to have, like you mentioned more in the faith that we have. You kind of take these things in life for granted that this pandemic has pretty much brought to the forefront of your mind like, “Wow, I’ve been so blessed.”  I’m going to try not to take any of that for granted.

Warren: And no matter what situation– if it’s the pandemic, if it’s something life threatening, if it’s anything that happens, it’s just knowing you’re a member and knowing God is on your side, you can take on anything.

RJ: So, hey, Warren, I just want to say thanks, and I really appreciate you taking your time to talk to me and as a new nurse, just having someone to talk to about all this, it’s really been a blessing. So thank you so much, Warren. 

Warren: I was such a…I really had a good time talking to you. You know, I wish you all the best in your career and your family life. Hopefully, when this thing gets figured out, if I ever go to California, I’ll come see you guys.

RJ: Definitely, I’m 15 minutes away from Disneyland, Warren. So come on over.

Warren:  Nice. Will do will do.

[Music]

Aliw: Hey, Warren, and RJ! Gosh, listening to you guys, you know, all of these images come to mind when you guys are talking about your real life situation in your hospitals or just being with the patients that you’ve had. We can only imagine how challenging your every day must be. Now, RJ talking to Warren, what do you think was your biggest takeaway from your conversation today with him?

RJ: You know, even for Warren, this pandemic has been new. But although he has 20 years of experience, the experience helps, but Warren, you still rely on your faith and your family to get through this.

Aliw: And Warren, what would be your advice to anyone who is studying to be a nurse, especially now that the world has completely changed, you know, so much from this pandemic? Any pieces of advice you’d want to give that may be different from when you started as a nurse 20 years ago?

Warren:  My advice to anyone who wants to become a nurse—I say do it. It’s very rewarding. If you have that passion and if you have direction where you want to help people, I would definitely say, keep on it. And you’ll know, you won’t be disappointed with it. 

Aliw: Well, I just want to say thank you both for your time. And for being at the frontline during this terrible pandemic. And we pray for both of you and your health and your safety and your families. And, in case you don’t hear it enough, we just want to thank you for doing all that you do. Thanks, guys.

RJ: Thank you for connecting me to Warren. It’s been great talking to you.

Warren: Thank you. I really enjoyed this experience. And it’s really uplifting. So, thank you.

Aliw: Thanks to RJ and Warren for taking the time to talk with us. And we’d like to thank all the nurses and frontline workers who have been such a tremendous help to families during this pandemic. 

Now, if you found value in what you heard in this episode, be sure to share it with another frontline worker or another friend who could use this conversation in their life right now. Be sure to subscribe to the Making Changes podcast on Apple or Google podcasts, or download the INC Media app to stay up to date with new episodes and check out our Making Changes Instagram account so you can see the faces behind the voices. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

Michael Robinson: I never wish for anybody to be in the positions that we’re in, right?

Jason Pablo: No. 

Michael: We always want best for others being able to have that certainty that our mothers, our loved ones pass, and that there is a time that will come to see them again. This is just a timeout? Timeout, you know, it’s this short period of time that you know, we’re just waiting to see them again. And I relished in the fact that when my mother passed away, these things… 

Jason: Yeah

Michael Robinson: Whatever is happening in the world right now could do nothing, could change nothing about who she was, and what she stood for in regards to her faith.

[Show Open]

Aliw Pablo: No matter where you are in the world, there was one thing we have all experienced together–change. This pandemic has forced us out of our comfort zones, and has pushed us into a new norm. And we simply surrendered and figured out a way to thrive. I’m your host, Aliw Pablo, and welcome to Making Changes, a new podcast from INC Media audio. It’s part two of our episode on loss and grieving. 

In part one, we heard the story of Jason and Mike, who both cared for their mothers battling chronic illness who eventually passed on, they talked about the challenges of seeing their moms physically deteriorate, but how the change in their prayers is what helped them get through their ordeals. 

On today’s episode, both talk about the values their moms have passed on to them, and how knowing that they will see their moms again, is what helps them fight through the pain of loss. Let’s listen in.

Michael Robinson: That’s one of the great things too Jay, you know, I think about the legacy that my mom leaves behind. And that’s left in us. 

Jason: Oh absolutely!

Michael Robinson: I started thinking about all the things that she taught me. And of course the good values of just being a good person, you know, because we weren’t in the Church of Christ. I grew up in the Church, but she was converted. And I started thinking about all of these values that she taught me that were of course given through the Worship Services in the church and those few days before, and just holding her hand, and she’s taking her last breaths, which is, it’s still a horrible sequence of images in my brain but over time, it’s gotten better and better. But I really felt like because of the mercy that I was asking, it’s like, “God, please just give me mercy to accept your will, give me the strength.” 

The fact that I was next to my mom when she was taking these last breaths. And she was actually able to attend Worship Service, even though just hearing, but it was a video streaming of our Executive Minister. And it was such a timely lesson, because it was about the fight until the end, and trusting God, that He is on the job, that he will do what is good for you. And once you accept that, no matter what happens, only good things will come to you. And I wanted to share this little piece with you, Jay, because I don’t know if you had an experience like this, but the nurse was with me. And as she left, I’m saying these words to my mom in her ears and , “Mom, we will see you again. We love you. Remember, you’re a member of the Church. You’re blessed. This isn’t the end.” And once she passed and took her last breath, the nurse said to me, “Well, at least she’s not in pain, and she’s in heaven now.” And that made something clicked so hard in my brain. Where I said to her, “Well, as a matter of fact, no.” And my brother, our I’m sorry, my co-worker, he came there, he was there already, Gary, and he recorded me on his phone talking to this nurse for 30 minutes about our faith. 

Jason: Right. 

Michael Robinson: Because that’s one of the things in perspective that I want to say “change,” but it became even more highlighted in my mind. The way that we see death is entirely different…

Jason: Right.

Michael Robinson: from the way the world sees death when someone dies. You know, yes, we celebrate life. We remember them. And the living works so hard to hold on to those who have left behind. And I’m not saying that’s wrong. You know, we concoct so many things in our minds, to help us…

Jason: Cope—

Michael Robinson: …to cope, to console ourselves, to get by. But the fact of the matter is, is that being in the Church and seeing that path that God prepared for my mom and I—Not only to spend time with each other, but for me to truly repay her, and caring for her, even in her darkest hours–It taught me a great sense of humility. We know that our parents are not just gone, they’re resting, there’s something better that’s coming for them. And it just made me think, “Well, how bad do I want to see them again? How bad do I want to see them again?”

Jason: Well, you know, first of all, I do need to say that I think your mom, and my mom, they’re cut from the same cloth– just very, very hard, loving people. I mean, my mom, I always described her as that when she loved you, boy, she would go out of her way to take care of you. But again, the prayer was all about, “God, she’s in your hands, will love you no matter what, you know, I just don’t want to see your suffering anymore.” And a day later, that was when she was no longer awake, and the only thing keeping her alive were the machines and the medicines that she was on. 

My mom was, you know, she and I were very close and to lose her it just made me realize that you have to really let your kids know how much they’re loved by you, as a father, by you as a parent, because that’s what my mom did. I miss her very much. But like you said, I’m inspired to be able to one day see her again, which makes me work even hard during the performances of my duties. 

One, so that my kids can see that. But two, just so we could all get there. And you know, I do treat that differently as a member of the Church, because death is but a rest. And we’ll all get there, as long as we hold on, and I’ll be able to see my mom. And one day again, along with my younger sister and along with my nephew…

Michael Robinson: Yeah, I never wish for anybody to be in the positions that we’re in, right?

Jason: No.

Michael: You know, we always want the best for others. And, whether you’re in the church or not, people face death, people get ill. People, unfortunately, become part of unfortunate circumstances, whether it’s calamities that happen. I mean, COVID that’s going around now, right? 

Jason: Yeah.

Michael Robinson: You know, it’s a part of life. And we’re involved in that, too. But, you mentioned it, being able to have that certainty that our mothers, our loved ones passed, and that there is a time that will come to see them again, because that’s what our faith is. Our faith dictates that. And, it’s proven that this is just a, what do we call this? A timeout? 

Jason: Yeah. 

Michael Robinson: It’s timeout, it’s this short period of time, that we’re just waiting to see them again. And I relished in the fact that when my mother passed away, that these things here in the world– pain number one, this physical, emotional bodily pain, would never grip her again. 

Jason: Yeah.

Michael Robinson: Whatever is happening in the world right now, could do nothing, could change nothing about who she was, and what she stood for in regards to her faith. Yeah, with the passing of my mom, I not only became stronger and my resolve because I said, I want to see my mother again. But I trusted God more.

Jason: Yeah, no, definitely. You know, once our moms kind of finish their course. You know, they became the lucky ones. Yeah, they had to suffer through it. They had some pain to endure. And they did. Probably, I mean, I know both you and I wish that we could have been in our mom’s places where we just kind of like take the pain away from them. But you know what, God did that for us. And you and I, as members of the Church of Christ, we definitely treat death differently. Because our parents–because our moms have died as members of the Church.

Michael Robinson: And just like your mom, she fought till the end. I remember bringing my mom to the House of Worship. Every time that we go to the Worship Service. I go in the room, get her clothes, put her clothes on. I put her foot drop brace on, tie her shoes, I will get her wheelchair ready with a cushion and a pillow that she specifically wanted. Because she kept saying, I want this pillow and help her out. I put the wheelchair in the back of the van, and then repeat the whole process all over again. And Jay I know, I’m waiting for you to tell me with your mom how that all was. I’m sure you had experiences.

Jason: Everything you said was dead on but because my mom, because of her condition it was a show. I mean, it was us getting ready for a show, you know, you had to give her a bath. You had to get her ready. 

Michael Robinson: Yes. 

Jason: Lay out her clothes. But the thing was, and this is how I knew my mom was still in there, my mom still cared about worshiping and how she worshiped because we would lay her clothes out. And you could even with her trach he’d be like, she’d be telling us, “No, not that.” 

Michael Robinson: Not that color. 

Jason: And then like my sisters would grab earrings. And she, of course she’d go up. What are you doing? These are not the earrings that I want. I want another. So you know, like you said it was just a big show to get your mom, wheelchair up into the car. Get into church, the brethren would you know, the brothers and sisters at church would come and kind of greet her. And, you know, my mom is really happy to see them. She’s exhausted. But you know, she’s still trying to say “hi.” But you know, I just remember that getting the wrong clothes and having the wrong earrings. My mom would not want to get ready unless it was right. Because, again, she was going to worship service and she wanted to worship God in the way that she wanted. She wanted to look right for Him.

Michael Robinson: Even I imagine that that time Jay, like they were on that hill. And they’re making all this effort. And I would even say like and, that’s one thing that I learned from that experience was that because our mothers are like, they don’t I’m not saying they didn’t care, but they’re like, “Hey, I gotta worship.” And imagine that you, the caretaker, are going to stop your mother from worshiping God is almost saying, “God, I don’t think this servant of yours should worship” like that. 

Jason: Exactly, bro.

Michael Robinson: I mean, “Wait, am I really gonna do that? Because I started realizing my responsibility as a son. Like this was now the added bonus to my relationship with my mom. I was now responsible for her to worship God. And so you know, bringing her to Worship Service, even though that was the only time she went out of the house! 

Jason: Exactly, bro. 

Michael Robinson: Like this the only time and she would not get in a wheelchair for anything. You know, if it was the day before, she’s like, I’m not doing anything, I need to rest this whole day for the worship service. But they knew, even to that point, they were so ill-stricken. And we talked about this before, you know, we all could have made excuses, and would have had the right to, but they still fought. If they’re fighting and they have such little that they’re able to do yet they’re still fighting? Why not more us? Yeah, that’s why I’m just grateful. 

I’m thankful for the faith that we have. The faith that we live by in the Church Of Christ. And honestly, Jay, I’m thankful to you as well, having this outlet to speak about this, because, for me, and you’ve been there, losing a parent, and it’s still kind of fresh, but just having someone else to be able to talk to about it, give their perspective. And, you know, it all boils down to, we really do think differently, from what the world may think about it, and because of these experiences, it changed us for sure. It changed us, but it changed us for the better. And it changed us for the betterment of serving God. Thank you so much, Bro, I really appreciate your time. 

Jason: Oh, no. I enjoyed it.

Michael Robinson: I forgot to ask you, oh my gosh, this just popped in my head too you know, like your advice that you would give, for others because our situations were different still but, what would you say to others and such?

Jason: It’s just that, the best place to be is in God’s hands and in living under God’s will. We may not understand why certain things happen. The good and definitely the bad but at the end of the day God knows exactly what He’s doing. And feel good about being under God’s will because you are always taken care of. God always knows what we need. Whether it’s you know, whether it’s a moment of sadness, like losing a mom, losing a parent. It teaches us something about ourselves, which makes us better as Christians. But God’s always doing that for us. Everything that happens in life, God’s will is at work. That would be my advice to everybody.

Michael Robinson: And I’m going to take that personally, because I love that line you just said, everyone who’s listening, “Feel good about being in God’s will.” That is the phrase of the day. Only feel good because nothing else will go wrong. And I can’t thank you enough. Jay really can’t. 

Jason: Oh, thanks man. I appreciate it, bro.

[Music]

Aliw: Gosh, I felt like I wanted you guys to talk forever. Like you guys, one minute you’re making me laugh. And the next minute you’re making me cry. That’s how this listening to two big burly guys talk about their moms. It’s like you guys are like these big teddy bears. But you know, what’s been so great is just listening. You know, listening to you both and and your mom’s we’re so blessed, to really have been loved by sons like you and having been loved and cared for by you guys. And, I know I got to meet your mom once Mike in Florida. 

Michael Robinson: Yeah. 

Aliw: And, and I know, and you know this, I would text you this all the time that how blessed your mom was to have you. As you know, you are going through all those difficult times taking care of her because like Jason said, it was just you and you and I always told you, “You got to take care of yourself, because you had two little kids and then your wife.” 

And, I also really got to see how much my mother-in-law really loved Jason, and up till the time she passed away. He’s right, she was always concerned about us, even though she was the one that was in pain and suffering. But, it’s rare to have to hear two guys talk about their feelings, and talk about their love. 

Jason: We’re big and burly. So you know, we’re okay about it.

Michael Robinson: Teddy Bear.

Aliw: It’s just rare. But you guys really, you know, thank you for being so vulnerable and letting your heart out there. But, grief is not something easy to talk about to begin with, but to have two guys talk about grief is like a whole nother level. But what do you think, Mike, what do you think your biggest takeaway from Jason was? In our conversation today?

Michael Robinson: Well, I think one of the things you just said, being vulnerable, I think the premise of the things we talked about, didn’t make me feel vulnerable, or to think that I was going to be in a vulnerable place. Because it’s honest, it’s real. And I mentioned, even earlier, the one thing that just popped in my head with Jay was saying is that feel good, that you’re in God’s will. 

And hearing his story about knowing that sometimes we want to know what God’s will is and, and we believe it’s what’s best for us. And even to the point and I connected with Jay so much when he said, “I don’t want to make that decision.” And when we trust in God to know that He’s going to provide, even if we had to make the decision or not, He’ll give us that strength to do it. 

But I’m just even speaking to Jay, with someone else, you know, it’s always good to speak to someone else who’s experienced something like you did. I mean, our circumstances are different in certain places. But, we’ve all experienced the same loss. And I’m very thankful for listening to Jay’s story, too. I’m happy to hear that there’s another guy that really loves his mom as much as I to what extent we would go to, because I used to think like, “Am I loving my mom too much because you have a family too.” But just hearing Jay–it reassured me even more that what we did was right. And it wasn’t because we just loved our mom. But, we know what’s good to God. And we know what His will is, and when we apply ourselves to it and make ourselves part of it, versus thinking what we think is best. Not only do we have good things, but we’re more calm, we’re at peace.  And that was my whole endgame here. 

In regards to my mother passing and I’m sure with Jason to know that we had peace and everything that we did. And having this conversation gives me more peace about it, knowing that moving forward that even though I do miss her, yes, you know, I have a fellow brother who also firmly believes we’ll see our mothers again. And it’s not just our mothers who will see each other’s mothers again and each other. 

But yes, feeling good about being in God’s will–That’s the biggest thing that I love what Jay just said, because it really brings me peace about everything that has happened, and to never be upset with God, but to be even just more thankful. And, to know that I passed this part of the trial in my life and when other ones come, we know we can feel good, because God’s will, it’s just being done for all of us.

Aliw: And what about you, Jason, what was your biggest takeaway from Mike?

Jason: My biggest takeaway from Mike was that, we’re always gonna question how, if we’ve grieved enough or during the time, have we done enough? The answer to all of that, that I’ve learned from Mike is that God has always allowed us to do exactly what we needed to do for our parents or for our loved ones, for that matter. You know, and even after death, our parents are going to live through us because we love our mothers so much, we’re always gonna wonder if we’ve done enough for them. We’ve grieved enough for them. Now that they’re no longer here. But I want to say that we only question that because we love them so much.

Aliw Pablo: Thanks again, Jason, and Mike for taking the time to share your stories and life lessons. And if you found value in what you heard today, please share it with a friend who is dealing with grief during this time. And we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on whatever platform you’re listening from. 

Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes. For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC media app. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.