Making Changes

Growing Up Coda: A Year Of Change

[Chatter] 

[ Show opens]

Sister Aliw Pablo: Alright, ok we’re all ready? 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hello Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowell, it’s been a while since we’ve seen you last. 

VO: Believe it or not, it’s been a year since we published the very first episode of the CODA series, where we first met Brother Rowel and Brother Ronnie David both CODAs or children of Deaf Adults and ministers of the gospel in the Church Of Christ.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Ka Ronnie, do you want to sit up a little bit? 

[laughter] 

VO: So much has happened with the David family since we last talked. So we thought it would be worthwhile to catch up. And because September is Deaf Awareness Month, what better time than now.  

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hello, Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel, it’s been a while since we’ve seen you last. 

Brother Rowel David: Hello, Sister Aliw.

Brother Ronnie David: Hello, Sister Aliw.  How are you?

Sister Aliw Pablo: We’re good. How are you doing? How are you both?

Brother Rowel David: Well, doing well, doing well.

Brother Ronnie David: Doing great

Sister Aliw Pablo: We just wanted to check in with you both and see how things are and just the impact and the feedback you’ve gotten from the CODA series, 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Would you say that there are people that you may have known for a long time, and after seeing your stories and hearing your stories, were  there things that they were surprised to learn?

Brother Ronnie David: I’ve had a lot of brethren who from my past local assignments, they texted me, they called me and they said, “I didn’t even know. I had no idea.” Because the thing is, we don’t put this out there. It’s not something that, “hey, hello, my name is Ronnie and my parents are deaf.” For them, one thing that got me was they said, “I see why you did the things The way you did. I see why.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Your story, you know, the CODA series was—is really a family story. And I am so curious to know have parents come up to you? Have kids come up to you? As far as helping bridge that cultural divide, generational gap, whatever gap happens as we grow older?

Brother Rowel David: You know, some are coming up and asking, you know, “what, do you think we shouldn’t do if, you know, this is the situation. You know, my child is going through this, do you think you can help them with this and that?” And so, I feel like because of that video, because of that series, it’s opened up a lot of doors. It’s actually opened, like, in the sense of parents, now seeing things in a different way as well. Because now they’re seeing things that you know, hey, this could be affecting my child, or me not doing this could be hindering them in this way.

Sister Aliw Pablo: One thing too, as far as opening up conversations, I’m curious as far as faith sharing, how has the feedback been from brethren who do have friends who are hearing-impaired and and how have they shared the content with them?

Brother Ronnie David: You know, it’s funny, because I feel like some brethren never thought about inviting a deaf person to a Bible study. They never thought about inviting a deaf person to listen to the words of God. But that’s an option. And that’s definitely happened to us sharing faith now. And it’s brought an—it’s gotten to the point where, even for those of the local I was assigned in, we were having a Bible study, we had about maybe eight or nine deaf there, so brethren are joining and they asked me so you know, Ka Ronnie we actually know some deaf my neighborhood, in my area. Can you do a Bible study over here? And I said, Sure. Exactly what it is. Because you know what? People feel more confident enough to invite people who are deaf now because they see that they have the opportunity also to hear God’s words. It’s even in the sense of learning sign language as well. Because through the CODA series now they’ve seen the other apps and the other, you know, videos that the Church Administration has produced. And now it’s branching out into the—you know, we—I’ve had some brethren come up and say, “yeah, I changed my major to communication,” you know, “to be able to help, you know, to learn more sign language as well.” And so it’s really, it’s impacted a lot of people in so many ways.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Well, praise God, praise God. And we hope that the wonderful thing about the CODA series and the story of your family is that it’s timeless, you know. That this can be watched five, ten years from now, and the stories and life lessons in your families can resonate for generations to come. But I should also point out, you’re all together today. I know that people may think you’re in the same place now, but why do you happen to be together and were able to do this interview and you’re in the same room?

Brother Ronnie David:  That’s true. We’re actually we’re blessed today to have a special gathering that was approved by the Church Administration for the ministers and not just the four districts that are here but all over the East Coast. So it was also a blessing for us in another way, which my brother and I were able to see each other. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: So it’s been a year and one of the things I never got to ask you both of this, but you know, our Part Three, there were some really profound intimate moments with your parents that you were able to say that you both have said you’ve never said before. And I know that for a lot of our viewers who watched it, that ending for Part Three is what got them. It just tore them up. It just—they just said, “I didn’t expect that at the end. Why didn’t you tell me? I should have had a box of tissues.” And I could tell from the reaction of your parents that they too were really shocked and moved by what you were able to tell them. So I was curious to know after that interview, what did they say to you? Brother Rowel you were in the same room with them.  But what was it like after that interview?

Brother Rowel David:

I’ll say you know… that my parents are people of few words, I’ll say it like that. even though they—my— especially my mother, she can sign away forever. But after the interview, it was more—you know, of course, deaf culture—more on action. We Just went up and hugged. Hugged, and then of course when my mom came up and hugged me, my dad came up, and it was just hugging for a good couple of minutes, saying I love you, this and that. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: No words needed.

Brother Rowel Pablo: No. None at all. It was a good moment. It was a good moment. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Ronnie, you obviously weren’t in the same room. But what were the conversations like after that interview, but also after they actually watched it? And watched the whole thing put together?

Brother Ronnie David: It’s like my brother said, it was.. it wasn’t only words. You know, my mother called her favorite son and I answered. She just told me she loved me so much. Because you—(laughs) you know what, for her, her and my dad, we don’t talk about our life to each other. We just live life with each other. So for us to confront it and view it and look back, I think that kind of opened all of our eyes. So she told me, she is thankful that we’re all together. And that we’re a family that was blessed to be together by God. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Ronnie can you repeat what you just said? “You don’t do life together…”

Brother Ronnie David: It’s like we, we never talked about our life together. We Just live life together. And it was probably the first time that we actually looked at each other—our faces, talked to each other and actually had a chance to look back and say, wow, this has been our life the whole time, and imagine the blessing it was to actually relive it with each other. And to see wow, you know, all those things we went through, whether happy, sad, good or bad, it was a blessing in the end because look at where we are now. And I think that’s where all the love came from and the fact that we really took a moment to say I love you to each other in a different way than we ever had before.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Being able to have that time and that moment to be able to do that and to look back a year later, if you can share with us what’s happened in the last year,

Brother Ronnie David: So, maybe a couple of months afterwards, just to go ahead and put it out there, I don’t know why but very suddenly our father passed away. And that was very tough. That was tough. Especially because we just had this opportunity to really open up to each other for the first time ever. I’m 32, my brother’s 30. And for how many decades that we lived life together, right, and for the first time ever we opened up to each other. And then one of us is gone. So like that definitely was… the sadness, the sorrow that was definitely there. And it’s not going to be something that still comes to mind and our hearts. We won’t stop thinking about it. But that’s the biggest trial we’ve experienced since we had done the CODA series.

VO: With no warning, their beloved dad, Brother Ramon David, suddenly passed away in mid April of this year. 

VO: It was here that Brother Ronnie recounted their last moments with his dad. Their parents were in New York, visiting Brother Ronnie and his wife and had just finished attending worship service in a local congregation where Brother Ronnie was assigned to preach. It was on their way home when Brother Ramon suddenly fell ill and later passed away. 

Brother Ronnie David: …the last thing I think about is, thank you, dad, for that last lesson. You teach a man how to finish his race. That’s exactly what we’re going to do. Because I hope that’s the way I finish my race, too. I’ll be on duty. I’ll still be genuine, genuine faith and love to the Lord God and live my life for God. That’s exactly what I want. So even though it was tough, it was—it was so sad at the moment at the time until now. I mean days later, weeks later, years later, for sure, we’re still going to feel like this, but at the same time, we’ll never forget that. He never had to say anything. He just lived his life to the end and he told us to really finish our race.

Sister Aliw Pablo: I remember Brother Rowel we were texting, I think it was just the day after your dad had passed away and I remember that your text was… the first thing you said is, “God is so good, because I got to see him just a few weeks ago and he got to see my brother. And I remember thinking at that moment that you both had, have had such a tough childhood, just struggle after struggle. But the fact that your mind, your heart automatically goes to the good with even the most painful situation, that that’s the first thing you think about a day after your dad had passed is such a testament to what your parents have taught you both. You know because that’s not something you learn overnight, you know, to be able to do that, to to be able to train your brain to go to where—to find a positive and everything, that is a lifestyle. That is a  lifestyle. And the fact that you both said that your father still taught you a lesson even the day that he had passed away—Sister Rose had actually sent me a picture—you know sister Rose and I were texting days after that, she had sent me a picture and it said and I don’t remember Brother Ronnie you can confirm, but it seem—sounded like your parents were with you, you had a Bible study with some deaf students? Was it that same week? So was that the same trip?

Brother Ronnie David: That was the exact same trip actually. Can you imagine the day before that we had a Bible study? And for some brethren they thought it was kind of late, it was at 9pm but we were there at chapel going over God’s words, going over the lessons. It’s amazing. All the deaf had so many questions and the beauty of it was that my parents were there. They were able to witness, they were able to mingle a little bit. And it was so nice seeing my dad talking to them, asking, “What do you think? What did you think about it?” And you never hear him say stuff like that. I’m sure the CODA series plays a big part in that because he is like wow, this is something that needs to get out. So maybe he felt the urge to do my part or that’s what he thought about it, and it was  great. It was great to see. We had about I want to say almost ten, ten deaf visitors and you know what, almost all of them are Bible students actually, currently right now.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Wow.

Sister Aliw Pablo: We saw that at the funeral of your father, there were some beautiful flowers there from the Executive Minister. Tell us a little bit about that.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, it was so overwhelming to get the kind of support we had. On an emotional level it was amazing to see so many brethren reach out. Brethren that talked to us like we were family.

Brother Rowel David: There were so many people that came out, from all over, we didn’t even expect them to come through. Just to show that they’re family..and actually there were even those that we didn’t even know, but because of the CODA series they came out to support. 

Brother Ronnie David: And probably one of the best things ever is to know that God is comforting us. Once you make that corner and we turn in, and you see all these flowers right there, right beside where my father was flowers from the Executive Minister, and it’s like such a great reminder that Ka Eduardo does think about all of us. Doesn’t matter how many people join the Church, how many members there are. So many, he is still thinking about all of us. And that’s why when I saw that, I said, you know, this is what it’s all about. The Church really is united. People say what they want but the Church really is united. And you can see how our Executive Minister, it’s amazing what he can do. That out of his time, out of his busy schedule and all that he still made time and showed love to us. That’s just another, like, everlasting reminder that God will take care of us. 

Brother Rowel David: our Executive Minister, he does this for the entire Church. And yet still, he can reach out, and he can show that love. It meant, it meant the world to us to know that he’s, he’s taking his time to make sure, to let us know that he’s there helping us, that he’s there supporting us. It really did mean the world. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Witnessing your mom firsthand go through something so painful, losing the love of her life, what are the lessons that you’ve learned, continue to learn from your mom today? And how to deal with loss but also what true love really looks like and feels like?

Brother Rowel David: I remember when she left New York, she flew into Georgia with Ka Rose. And I was blessed to be able to be there and pick them up from the airport. And when we were driving, we stopped over to grab something to eat. And I turned around and I looked at her and I said, “Are you okay?” And she said, “I miss dad.” And I told her, I said—because I know her—and I said, “Mom, it’s okay for you to cry.” And she said, she looked at me, she goes, “No.” She said, “People tell me I have to be strong, I have to be strong.” And I get that, you know. And I’ll say that that’s one thing that I took from that is that, yes, we do have to be strong. But of course, when it’s just us. I told her I said, “Yeah, that’s fine.” I said, “In front of everybody else you can be strong.” But I told her I said, “Right now it’s okay for you to cry,” and she just, she let it out. 

But even then, like I said, she was showing us— and it’s what we preach as well, we know that—and our Executive Minister has said it before: to die as a member of the Church Of Christ is such a great blessing. It is. I mean you know we talked about, just like what Brother Ronnie said earlier, we’re going to experience sorrows. We’re going to experience pain because we’re still here on earth. You know. Dad doesn’t have to go through that anymore. Dad doesn’t have to experience that anymore. The next time that he’s going to open his eyes, the Bible says he’s going to be in heaven. He died as a member of the Church Of Christ. It’s a blessing. And so we preach that, you know, yes, be strong. But that’s something that I took is that, man, even though she’s going through that heartbreak, she’s still upholding what we preach in the worship service, that you’ve got to be strong. And that’s, you know, that’s, again, she really leads by example. She leads by example.

Brother Ronnie David: Especially the day after it happened. No one got much sleep that night. And the thing about it is, I know it must have been a shock for her. It must have been so surreal that this happened. Then, I remember she was saying, “Okay, look you need to be strong now,” which—those were very nice words to come from a parent, especially when something tragic happens. But those words, I play in my head when I need it. She was crying when she said it. She was hugging my arm when she said it. I really think about it now when I need it. Those moments where I do feel sad about it. So that’s one thing we’re definitely getting from her that she doesn’t have to say it, she just shows it. And regardless of what’s going to happen, she will be strong. She does that by showing us that she’ll continue serving God, performing her duties, and fulfilling what she’s always been doing, being a good number inside the Church.

Sister Aliw Pablo: With your mom, what, like you mentioned earlier, that she’s always just moving and doing and serving. How do you think her being activeness and continuing to do her duties in their Church that is helping her in her healing and her grieving at this time?

Brother Rowel David: Most definitely, I would say that it’s helping her remaining active in her duties inside the Church. We’re seeing her, she is—and she recognizes it as well, that she turns to that for comfort. She does. And you know, we’re so thankful, of course, to our Almighty God and to the Church Administration for having all of these different activities going on back to back to back. We’re thankful because it gives her the opportunity to involve herself in those things. She’s able to stay busy doing those things, doing the things that she loves, and then it keeps her mind away from thinking about those moments of being sad. Because of course, just again, the human in us, we’re going to be sad for years to come. But the fact that she can be able to make herself busy in those things that she loves, which is her services in the Church, it really does do her well. It does her well. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: How about for the both of you just on a personal note how tough it must have been to do the first worship service preach the first worship service after losing your father? And guiding brethren to be strong during the midst of challenges and experiencing it yourself in the middle of your own pain and in your own grief? How were you able to—were you able to stand up in front of your congregations and do the same?

Brother Ronnie David: Personally, and this is from the both of us because both of us admitted it to each other. I mean, we don’t have decades of experience inside the ministry. At the end of the day we’re still our parents’ children, and for us to still perform our duty, like we were talking about, still lead in the worship service, those are moments too, where you feel like how am I gonna do this? How am I supposed to do this? I mean, I know my head’s not in the right place, my hearts all over the place. How am I supposed to lead in the worship service? And you remember your mom and she is grabbing on your arm crying, “You have to be strong, you have to be strong.” You know what, it really makes you… I don’t want to say that you need someone to pass away to lose a loved one to feel closer to God. I don’t want to say that’s necessary but I want to put it out there, is that those moments actually are such a positive because it makes you—it really does make you feel closer to God. It really does. And [the Bible] says, it reminds you this life isn’t perfect. This life isn’t everything to us. What we’re supposed to do in this life is what we’re about to preach right now in this worship service, which is we’re supposed to let everybody know, remind everyone that this is what we need to do right now in order for us to get right here, which is our salvation. So, to tell you the truth, the worship service, you feel more deeper, you feel more entwined with the lesson. You definitely feel the emotion, but of course, you keep your composure. But at the same time it’s almost like you understand life a little bit better now.  We have a better way of saying it right?

Brother Rowel David: Yeah, I know in the first worship service that I officiated after it happened, that was one of the applications that we used in that worship service, which was for the parents. The only time that you have to teach your children is now because there will be a time that you won’t be there anymore. But you want to make sure that your children are okay. For the children, it’s important that you listen. That you listen to what they’re teaching—and you notice what they do, so that you can be able to follow that example. Because just like what he said, what we always preach, you have to do now  in order to be able to get to where we want to be, which is that eternal life that is salvation. 

Sister Aliw Pablo:  And how is your mom doing? How is Sister Raquel doing?

Brother Ronnie David: You know, Sister Aliw, it’s like you’re asking us a question that you already know the answer to. I’m only saying that because what she’s doing now is this—don’t be surprised—she’s going to worship service, she’s going to Bible studies, she’s going to the general cleaning of the place of worship that they have, she’s going to all the functions, and the activities and then she ends her day by texting us what she did at Church today. 

Brother Rowel David: There was one day she called me on FaceTime and she says randomly, she says she had just come from a general cleaning. And she said, “See, even though I’m by myself, I’m still going to do what God wants because that’s what God wants us to do.” And I told her I said, “That’s good.” I said, “I’m glad, I’m proud.” Because she hasn’t stopped. She won’t stop.

Brother Ronnie Pablo: You know if I could add to it.  But we won’t make her sound like she’s not human, alright? She definitely does have her moments. She texted us the other day, “It’s me and your father’s anniversary today.” And obviously there’s this type of feeling that she has and the feeling that we have about it, and we try to keep our heads up, we try to keep our chin up, try to focus on the good, focus on the positive and focus on the happiness and the love. But there are moments where she texts me, it really breaks my heart. Few words you know, just simple words like “Cry. I’m sad.” You know what, it’s amazing because she texts me this, obviously it breaks my heart. I’m sure she sent the same to my brother, it breaks his heart, and we both feel sad at the moment. But there’s a very spiritual aspect about this that really came to light, is that, I mean we’re supposed to feel sad. And we’re supposed to feel sorrow, sadness and all that. We’re supposed to, it’s biblical. Because the only time that stops is like what it says in Revelation is 20:1-4; the only time there’s no more sorrow, the only time there’s no more pain, and the only time that God will wipe away our eyes is when we get to heaven. And I remind myself that—that’s what this has all been about. So we got to go to heaven. We have to make it to heaven. This really isn’t our true home, is it?

Sister Aliw Pablo: Despite the hurt and the pain of losing your dad, but knowing that a few months before that, you were able to say what you did to him—things you weren’t ever able to say at all growing up—what does that say about the importance of saying what we need to say to people we love?

Brother Ronnie David: You know it’s so tough because yeah, you wish we could have been saying this our whole lives. We wish we could have been open like this to each other. And some people may say it’s unfortunate that it was only then that we said it. But like I said earlier, like what we believe: we just said what we were already doing. It was nothing new to us. It was just nice to be able to look at each other and reflect on it. But being able to express your love for your loved ones, I mean, obviously, we take it so much more seriously now than we have ever had before. I mean yeah, there were times where we do a whole day’s work. We do office work, we do Bible studies, chapel, we go to worship service. It just takes a few minutes or a few seconds just to know with a text. Text mom, “I love you.” We don’t need to start a conversation. I just want you to know, how are you doing? Did you get some sleep? Are you drinking water, you know. And you know what? One of the things that really hit us both is it really made us have a realization. Because for some people they may say, you know, it really was unfortunate that just now that you guys are really admitting this to each other But the way I look at it is, it was actually really hard at first—and this is us being completely human right now—it was really hard at first because we couldn’t take it. It’s very harsh on us because it’s our dad. We just had this CODA series. Because even for us we’re thinking the same thing, like why did we just now just say something, like why didn’t we just now open up to each other? And then you know what? The hard thing is like when we  pass, we start thinking the most human feelings ever like, “Why, God why? Why now? Why did it have to happen now?” And then you remember, us God-fearing people, God never makes mistakes. He never makes mistakes. And for some people that hurts. That hurts to think that. So my parents had to die or my loved one had to go. God never makes mistakes, it’s true. And You know what else, God has our best interest at heart. God really loves us. God cares for us. And when we really think about it, there’s a reason why it happened. It is all part of God’s guidance and at the end of the day you start realizing you know what, I need to trust God because know what, God never makes mistakes. There’s a reason why it had to happen. 

VO: “God never makes mistakes.”– He’s right, it’s a lesson I’ve had to learn over and over again, as well. But it’s also a lesson that’s hard to learn if you’re only focusing on the challenges you’ve had to face. So Brother Ronnie reveals a special blessing their family was given, as well. 

Brother Ronnie David: And if I can go ahead and mention it, I was, I mean I want my brother to mention it—but just for me on my part my father passed away in April, my nephew was born in May. And it means so much because… and I would text my brother—me and my brother, just to let you know we don’t even text like that. I know he’s busy doing his duty, he’s busy fulfilling his ministry, I’m over here doing my ministry. We don’t text each other. We don’t feel the need because we know love will always be the same. But I remember texting him, you know, I’m just glad that at least we have someone come in when dad leaves. Because God loves us. He doesn’t want us to hurt that long. He doesn’t want us to go through that much pain. He is going to give us a little bit of comfort too. He is going to take care of us emotionally. That’s when—that’s when my brother—

Brother Rowel David: Just you know that’s… that text message he’s talking about is something that I hold on to, something that I tell other people about all the time you know, dad passed away, a few weeks later, Timothy comes into the picture. And a lot of people they—you always have those people that say, oh, it’s sad that he wasn’t able to meet his lolo. It’s sad that he wasn’t able to meet his grandfather. But what I always say, I always go back to that text message, it’s that—”but it’s okay.” You know, yes. You know. And I’ll put this in as well. God is so good because right before our dad passed, we were together. I was able to be with him because of, you know, different worship services. I was able to go visit him. And then a few weeks later or two weeks later, he’s able to be with Ronnie. And so, he was able to see both of us. He was able to be with his family until the end. And that’s what we’re thankful for. That’s what we’re grateful for is that even after the CODA series, he knows how we feel, we were able to talk about it. And then he’s able to be with us multiple, you know—and again, we don’t see each other all the time. And yet we were able to be together because of God’s plan and God’s graces, and He let my dad go at the end of that. He was able to experience it. And then yes, a few weeks later, you know, we’re still hurting, we’re still grieving. Until now we still are. But it’s just like what he said, God sees that and God comforts as well. I think his—what his text message was was, “Timothy came at a perfect moment, the time when we needed him the most and we’re able to find that love again.” And yeah, I, you know, I hold—I’ve never told him that. This is us again, expressing ourselves in front of the camera, in front of you, and not to each other.

Brother Ronnie David: We should do this more often.

Sister Aliw Pablo: I think this is a pattern here.

Brother Rowel David: But yeah, no, I’ve never told him that, but I hold on to that text message so much, because it’s so true. I was having that conversation with my wife just a couple of weeks ago and I told her I said Timothy couldn’t have come at a better moment. Because it really was at a moment where we really did need him. And at this point, we’re able to be together and he was able to meet his uncle. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: So, you met him for the first time on this trip? So that was yesterday, right, because you just saw each other yesterday? Can you tell us, because I just get a kick out of his name, what is your son’s name, Brother Rowel?

Brother Rowel David: Timothy King David.

Sister Aliw Pablo: That’s so cool. 

VO: And while the deep pain and grief of losing their dad is still there, the presence of joy of the newest addition to their family cannot be denied. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: Brother Rowel, now that you’re a dad, what lessons are you going to pass on to your son that Brother Ramon had left with you?

Brother Rowel David: You know it’s great because I mean, first and foremost, of course, all of the things that my dad did for us, I want to be able to do for him. Because I—and you know, our Executive Minister reminds us as ministers all the time—that we have to be able to lead by example. That’s exactly what you know my dad did for us. It’s funny because now that I do have Timothy, I find myself waking up earlier. And I’m the one that does this and does that, puts this into the van, and does this and does that. And I think about it and I’m like, my dad used to do that. And I’m doing it because I saw him do it. He took care of us without us knowing. Just did it. And I, for sure, that is something that I want to be able to show, you know, yes teach of course, but teach it by showing him that this is what you do. For—you know, especially as you know, I want to say I want to be able to teach him how to be a man in the sense that we take care of our family of course first and foremost, I’m going to teach him, you know, that just like your granddad, you will have to continue to put God first. You know, that was something that our dad always did—us living two hours away from the chapel, he would always wake up early. You know those cold mornings when you have to make sure that the car is heated up—

Sister Aliw Pablo: The East Coast with snow and everything.

Brother Rowel David: You would wake up early and he would make sure that the car is clear that he would turn on the car so it would heat up, and this and that and. So that we could be able to leave on time. Or has it my mom, we always left three hours before the time we have to leave, he would do it. And it’s because we’re talking about God here. God is always first and that’s something that I wanted to teach. And that’s something that we took from our parents that one hour isn’t enough to be early.

Sister Aliw Pablo: September is Deaf Awareness Month and having heard the feedback from listeners from viewers and also having lived as CODAs, what would you like for people to know about the community?

Brother Ronnie David: You’re looking at the community right here. I think, you know, they can really benefit from this. You know, there are people, they want to share their faith. So just putting out effort to try to communicate or even trying to learn a little sign language here or there, it really helps out. And even if you meet someone who is CODA, you know, they’re talking and they’re chatting to their parents while you’re sitting and all that, even showing you know a little sign language there is a great impact because for people who are CODA like myself and my brother, I mean, just seeing other people who give effort to want to be able to speak to our parents, that means a lot in itself, too. So the fact that it’s going to come out in September or we’re going to be able to show people this is in September, it’d be really nice if everyone gave some type of effort towards it. There’s a lot more deaf people around than people think. Not that they are trying to hide. They don’t say much. But go and put the effort in to try to say something to them if you do see them.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Now that the Church is, you know, we have CSD (Christian Society for the Deaf), we have the app, we have a website, to know that your father left when he did. He went from, right, the 95th anniversary where there was nobody and he was just floored to see one person, Sister Rose, signing. And to know that he had finished his race at a time when he saw, when he could see the progress of the Church when it comes to the deaf community, how does that make you feel as his sons?

Brother Rowel David: I’d say for lack of a better word, happy, because you know, you saying it just brought back, just brought back a lot of memories. The fact that our dad was so happy to see one person signing. We don’t, we don’t get that a lot from our, from our dad. We don’t. And then to know that he was able to see how it is now, it—you just know that he was happy and that made—I’m trying to say it for both of us.

Brother Ronnie David: I mean, it also makes us happy to know that they’re not the only deaf inside the Church because throughout the years, you know, she sees an interpreter then you find out okay, she has parents who are deaf, they eventually became members. I remember thinking about the time that my parents both took oath as deacon and deaconess looking back at it is like wow, that really was something because they’re signing back the oathtaking to my cousin who was interpreting for them during the oathtaking.

Sister Aliw Pablo:  Let’s go back to your mom. How is she as a grandmother, Brother Rowel? How is his sister Raquel as a lola, as a grandmother?

Brother Rowel David: She’s happy. She’s happy. She’s one of the first things she said was that she knows that dad would have been happy and dad was excited to see Tim. And I guess for me, of course, I would love for Timothy to have met my dad. But just to know that he was excited. My mom was telling me that apparently he was telling everyone in their local area about Timothy, how he was excited to see his first grandson, this and that. And that’s all she would say in the beginning. You know, of course she’s not close to us right now in the distance but she’s always asking for that picture and that photo of the baby, you know. She is always asking just to be able to see him. She’s happy. She’s happy. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: And lastly, to wrap up our interview, brothers. Thank you again for taking the time. We know you have a long drive back for both of you but just to close our interview, Can we get—can we meet little Timothy King David? 

Brother Rowel David: Yes, of course.

Sister Aliw Pablo: And his global debut?

Brother Rowel David: He was here earlier before and then he was sleeping  and then we took him off, and he woke up. And we were like, oh, he knew, he knew he was gonna be on camera. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: He’s like, “let me be camera ready”. Oh, I see his hair. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. 

Brother Rowel David: This is Timothy King David.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Hi, Brother Timothy King David! Can we zoom in on him? What’s the best part of being a dad Brother Rowel?

Brother Rowel David: You know, after a week and a half being with him, someone asked me that. And I really thought about it for a second and having Timothy has been the closest feeling I’ve had to the Ministry. The feeling I get in the Ministry, you can’t compare it to anything. It’s a different feeling that God gives you when you’re helping in the holy Ministry. And I think after those late nights, you know having you know having to take care of Timothy and everything, closest thing I could feel. the closest to that fulfillment feeling, you get it whenever you’re taking care of him. Yeah. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: And your heart just melts no matter how tired you are.

Brother Rowel David: Always. Always.

Sister Aliw Pablo: Always. 

Brother Rowel David: Crying, and in the moment you get the bottle to him and he stops and just looks at you? Enough. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: So at what age would you start teaching him sign language?

Brother Rowel David: You know, we’ve actually already started looking into it. And we’re wanting to go ahead and start.

Sister Aliw Pablo: He’s like, you’re too loud, dad, you’re too loud. 

Brother Rowel David: Yeah, no, we’re looking—we’re already starting to look into it and I’m thinking I think around six months is when we’d actually start trying to implement. But for sure, we want to be able to teach him sign language and honestly my mom is already trying.

Sister Aliw Pablo: To teach him. 

Brother Rowel David: Already trying. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: I bet he’ll be a fast learner. He’ll be your interpreter when he is older as you‘re preaching, Brother Rowel.

Brother Ronnie David: It’s in the blood, po, he’s doing it right now. There you go. 

Sister Aliw Pablo: He is doing “I love you”? Aw, look at that stretch.

VO: And there’s no better way to end this episode than to see the hope and love a child brings to a family. Timothy may not have met his grandfather but we hope one day,  this CODA series will help him know who his grandfather was and the legacy of faith he left behind.

Special thanks to Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel for taking time out of their busy schedule to sit down with us and of course, to Sis Rose Guillermo, Timothy’s other grandmother for doing the ASL translation.

If you haven’t seen the CODA series, log on to incmedia.org, or on the INC Media app or anywhere you get your podcasts, to listen or watch the 3-part series.

On behalf of the Making Changes team, thanks for listening  and may your change uplift you.

Aliw: Hey, it’s Aliw. It’s now August, and here, where I live, in the Bay Area, the weather’s getting cooler, and our days are getting shorter. You know what that means, summer’s winding down and it’s almost time for students to head back to school. So, this episode is for students! Specifically, college students who are leaving home for the very first time. 

And even if you’re not moving, but are still about to go to college, I understand that that change is profound and challenging in itself. I’m a mom of two college students, myself, so trust me, I know! 

These are the challenges that Marielle and Chanelle talk about in this episode, and more specifically, trying to hold on to their Christian faith while they’re in college. We’re bringing back this episode from our first season because what they talk about is timeless. 

I want to thank them both for being so honest and brave during this conversation, and letting us all be a part of it. And I hope you’re able to share this conversation with someone in your life who’s about to face this milestone. 

(music fades in)

Marielle Magno: Why I liked University of San Francisco is because I could still easily go home. It’s not that long of a commute. But I’m also far enough to be pretty independent, but still be close to home. 

Chanelle Amoguis: That must be exciting. What are your feelings right now? You know, thinking about dorming and moving?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Meet Marielle and Chanelle. Marielle is an incoming college freshman, sitting down and talking to Chanelle who graduated college last year. 

Marielle:  So like, while you were in Korea, um, how, how did you like to stay true to your faith and not be easily tempted and influenced, while dorming and being away from home?

Chanelle:  That’s a good question. 

Aliw: Studies show that there’s a growing trend that reveals that some college freshmen aren’t just preparing to say goodbye to their families. They’re preparing to say goodbye to their faith as well.  With newfound freedom and away from the eyes of their parents and temptations everywhere. What can one do to keep their Christian faith strong and thriving while away in college? 

Chanelle: Setting boundaries is so important. And you have to constantly tell yourself like, this is a line and this is a line that I will not cross.  And they say “will not” instead of “cannot” because if you say “cannot” it’s like you’re restricting yourself. But if you say “will not” that puts you in control of your decision… 

Aliw:  So, today we’re having that tough conversation. Is it possible to remain as a true and faithful Christian while away in college? A phase in life that the world says is a time for exploration and self discovery? Or could college actually be a time that can bring a person even closer to God? I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo, and you’re listening to Making Changes.

[Show Open]

Aliw: Marielle was so excited to be asked to be part of this podcast. She starts her freshman year at the University of San Francisco in the Fall. She’ll be getting advice from Chanelle from Hawaii, who moved 1000s of miles away from her family, and studied in South Korea. We’ll hear about real life experiences and real world advice from one Christian to another and learn tips on how to navigate around the changes that come during this part in young adulthood but always with God by their side. Let’s listen in.

[Music ends.]

Marielle: Hi, Chanelle. Thank you so much for being here to talk to me today. 

Chanelle: Hi, Marielle. I’m so happy to talk to you today. I’m excited. 

Marielle: Yay, me too. I’m so excited as well. So nice to meet you. 

Chanelle: How are you?

Marielle: I’m good. How are you?

Chanelle:  I’m doing great. It’s a bit hot over here, so I’m sweating a little bit in nervousness and excitement. But I heard you graduated recently. Congratulations!

Marielle: Thank you. I graduated. Thankfully, it was an in person graduation. So I gotta have it in person. A lot of students, so 800 students to graduate class. And you got too?

Chanelle: I did, I did. It’s like during the pandemic back in 2020. So we didn’t have an in person graduation, unfortunately, because you know, the pandemic was pretty new. So everybody was just like on lockdown. I graduated from the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Yeah, I know. It’s a pretty big school. And I also heard that you’ll be moving away as well. Where are you going?

Marielle: Yeah, I’m going to move to the University of San Francisco, which is just like around 40 minutes away, but I’ll be dorming there.

Chanelle: You’ll be dorming there. So this is your first time being away from your family. 

Marielle: Yeah, it is. Did you move away for school too? 

Chanelle: I did. I, yeah. When we look back on it. I just remember all the good memories and the fun times I had, but it was back in 2017.  I studied abroad in South Korea for a semester. 

Marielle: And what did you study? 

Chanelle: Um, basically all things: Korean language, Korean history and Korean culture. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, and I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity come to me by a friend. He told me that there’s a scholarship that hardly anyone applied to and if I did it, there’s a high chance I’d get it. I just had to turn in paperwork, pass the interviews, and yeah, they pretty much paid for everything. You know, you have the whole experience. 

Marielle: That’s so cool. That’s awesome. 

Chanelle:  And Kpop is a great motivator, you know, and learning new languages, which is what helped me for my major in Korean.

Marielle: Yeah. So what was it like dorming especially in a different country too?

Chanelle: For me dorming in a different country. It was very exciting, very terrifying. But the terrifying didn’t come until later, you know. When I first heard it, you know, all that excitement washes away any types of fears, stresses that I had because of this, like the idea of studying abroad into a country that you’ve grown up wanting to travel to– to visit, ever since you’re a kid, like, in my case, especially, it’s just like, no, this is I’m all in. No problems here at all. So yeah, I was very happy. And my parents were excited for me as well.

Marielle: So like, while you were in Korea,  how did you like, stay true to your faith and not be easily tempted and influenced while dorming and being away from home?

Chanelle: Oh, that’s a good question. For me, I really surrounded myself with friends who shared the same goals, and respected my values and boundaries. And one of the biggest culture shocks that I’ve seen firsthand was the drinking culture in Korea. Like it’s so common that you see it in Korean dramas, pop culture, even among the most popular k idols, they promote it in their advertisements, like it’s become normalized. And it hits you when I, as a student, of course, my friends would at the time, my classmates would ask me to go out and, and hang out and drink at the bars with them. Like they do it every day. Not saying that all Koreans drink every single day. But you know, it’s hard when there’s influences left and right, even more so there. And it’s not just Korea. It’s everywhere around the world. 

Marielle: Yeah, exactly. 

Chanelle:  Yeah, it’s easy to get caught up and distracted with influences around you. But you, keeping that awareness of your boundaries… Setting boundaries is so important. And you have to constantly tell yourself, like, this is a line. And this is a line that I will not cross and I say “will not” instead of “cannot” because if you say “cannot,” it’s like you’re restricting yourself, but if you say “will not” that puts you in control of your decision that this is something you’re not going to do. And don’t be afraid to tell people “no.” Don’t be embarrassed if your values are different from others, because sometimes, you know, you think that they’re going to react weirdly or they’re going to look at you differently. Like, no, really, like if you just say no, they’ll be like, okay, because sometimes it’s just as simple as that. And if they ask why it’s, you can just tell them and they’ll be like, okay, cool, I understand it’s fine. You know, and if they keep pushing, maybe these are the types of people that you shouldn’t be around. So you know what’s right from wrong. And don’t put yourself in a position where your boundaries are compromised. 

And honestly, I’m just really grateful for the friends and family I’ve made in the local of Yongsan and Ansan. Shout out to them. They were always there to keep me busy in my duties in the Children‘s Worship Service or even in INC Radio and attending all of the activities there in Korea, it was so amazing. It really kept me away from those types of influences and reminded me of the foundation of my faith.

Marielle: Wow, I really, Oh, wow, that’s really good advice what sticks out to me the most is “to not be afraid to say “no.” Because yeah, I’m like, I really value friendships, especially even in high school where I already know everyone. But now I’m going into college where I won’t know anyone. Even in my high school. Oh, no one there is going to USF. So I’m going to be surrounded by new faces. And I would, of course, love to, like make some friends. And I’m not gonna lie, sometimes I do end up just so for them to stay my friend, I’ll end up doing certain things like, okay, sure, I’ll do this with you. But it isn’t anything bad. But I would just really want to stay friends with people. So I just really like the advice you say about making sure you have your own boundaries for yourself, and knowing who your right friends are for yourself. Who has a good influence on you.

Chanelle:  I completely understand Marielle because I was like you at that point, too, you know, like, I was passive. I didn’t know how to stand my ground. Yeah, but you know, once you make that first step, everything else will be easier.

Marielle: Okay. Yeah. Cause also I’ve been praying to just like to make sure that…this to God that this is going to be a positive experience for me. And, like, I can tell you right now from the college applications to right now in my USF endeavors, like God has literally been there for me and his timing with all of this college things is so perfect. Cause even from the SATs. I hate taking tests. So even in my devotional prayers,  at one point, I was like, “God, please just let the SATs disappear, so I won’t have to take them anymore.” And the next day, they cancelled because of the pandemic. So I was like,  yeah, I mean, so I didn’t have to take the SAT. And then skip to when I’m starting to apply for colleges. And I decided to apply to seven colleges. And I got rejected from five of them. And waitlisted, actually to USF. And I actually got accepted to the one that I least wanted to go to. So, you know, I was definitely a bit sad, and I was praying to God, like, “please just let this be a positive thing for me and for it all to work out for me.” And then I decided to go to the other college that I got accepted to, and wait out the USF waitlist. And actually, at one point, I stopped praying about USF because I got a bit let down and I was just really sad. And I told my dad that and my dad said, “No, keep praying about USF even if it’s just waitlisted, you still have a chance.” So I was like, Okay, sure. So I put USF back into my Devotional Prayers. And the next week, I got a text from USF saying that their space is open in their school, and then I got accepted. So I literally got accepted into the school that I most wanted to get into. And then the school that I least wanted to get into. But at the end of the day, like I got accepted in the school that I wanted to, and I was like, like this, it’s just so shocking.

Chanelle:  You know, in those types of situations, those are really like lessons that came from God, where you kind of teach you like to be patient or any types of things. So I’m so happy for you. And I’m so excited for you. So what are you going to end up studying? And how far are you going to be away from home again?

Marielle: So I’m going to be studying Nursing, which, and I was surprised too, because I know that their nursing program is really competitive. So God really blessed me with that as well. And I’ll be like, 40 minutes away from home. And also why I liked the University of San Francisco is because I could still easily go home. It’s not that long of a commute. But I’m also far enough to be pretty independent, but still be close to home.

Chanelle:  I see, that must be exciting. What are your feelings right now? You know, thinking about dorming and moving?

Marielle: Oh, well. Funny you asked that because like this morning, I got an email. Oh, 20% off like all mattresses. And, like the beddings. I mean, right now I’m pretty excited for it. There are moments where I’m either going out with a friend, or just kind of out by myself. And I kind of like, you know, think about my family. And just like okay, even my sister was like, oh, when you were out with your friend, Daddy said that this is what it’s gonna be like when you’re out in college. And I’m just like, Oh, yeah. Did you get homesick in Korea a bit?

Chanelle: Um, you know what, because I was so excited. It actually didn’t hit me until later. When I think towards the end of my scholarship program. When everybody’s leaving classes or finishing and like I had to move out of my dorms and into an airbnb to stay until my flight was out. And you know, when I experienced that loneliness that’s when everything started hitting me and you know, falling on me. Because, moving is stressful to begin with, you know. Yeah, so at that time, like, as soon as I got settled in the airbnb that I was going to stay at, I just, I cried it out, honestly. And I cried a lot. And I can easily laugh about it now. But when I look back and think about how much better I felt, I realized that allowing yourself to accept those emotions, and feel it’s a great way to exercise healthy coping mechanisms like your mind, and may want to focus on healing and getting rid of that pain. But the physical act of crying also allows for your body to catch up to those emotions and express that pain because you know, when you have heavy feelings of sadness, or any deep negative feelings, it affects you physically. And I know that there’s an ongoing stigma that expressing your emotions means that you’re soft, or it’s something to feel shameful about. But it’s important to accept those emotions and just let it out. Otherwise, you might turn to other negative vices or influences that would make things worse, you know, and we’re taught as Christians to pray and give all of your worries unto God, every single thing that you’re stressed, you’re worried about you like, from happy to bad, like you tell you tell it to God. And if you can be real to God with everything you’re going through, why not also be real with yourself and face what’s in front of you instead of avoiding it? And that’s what I had to learn and deal with while I was dorming away from my family as a student.

Marielle: So I also wanted to ask, while you were in college, what did you major in?

Chanelle:  So early in high school, I already decided that I wanted to do Journalism. And I’ve been doing Journalism all through my community college years up until University, but at the last minute, I changed to Korean.

Marielle: So how did you manage to balance studies, extracurriculars, and church duties and activities all at the same time? 

Chanelle:  I’m going to tell you, it’s not easy. 

Marielle: So you’ve been asking that question. Oh, I feel the stress already.

Chanelle: Yes, right. Well, as someone who has gone through it, for me, it was understanding what my priorities were, and knowing the full scope of each of my responsibilities, so I can gauge what I need in order to accomplish all of my tasks. I’m going to admit, I’m not like the best multitasker but I always try my best. And I used to be so strict with the schedule that I wrote in my planner to help me keep organized and I organized every single day down to the minute like I would finish this class at this time, I would go to work at this time, all of that I would have, you know, devotional prayer at this time. But, you know, no matter how well you plan, unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way. And how I reacted was so bad, I used to malfunction or freak out when a class gets moved up and an appointment gets rescheduled, or when two activities conflict with each other. But what I did is like, once I reminded myself, that it’s not my fault, and these things are out of my control, it opened my mind for a new solution to tackle the issue at hand. And you know, that’s also when sacrifice comes in. And sacrifice, it’s never easy. That’s why it’s called sacrifice. But you have to prepare your heart for times when you’re gonna have to make a sacrifice and choose between two things. And that’s also why I have my daily prayers. And in my prayers, I always make sure to ask God for the knowledge to prioritize what’s important. And I also pray for the strength I need to make those sacrifices because it’s gonna take a lot of strength, I’m telling you to make those difficult decisions. And you know what, you never know, God will open up a plan C that will make everything fall into place. 

Marielle: And so even though it was hard to juggle it all with duties in school, why did you decide to try and do it all? 

Chanelle: You know, I always felt that it was worth it in the end. You know, for one, it kept me away from doing bad things. Two, school benefited me for my career, my future and giving me the education I needed and performing my duties gave me the spiritual encouragement and upliftment that I needed to continue on in my current life, like the teachings that you hear in the worship service, or in any of the activities, they’re there to guide you on how life is how life will be like. And I, even though it’s so hard it was. So it was such a struggle, just knowing that God always had my back. He was always there answering my prayers, and granting me blessings, whether I knew it or not. He was always there to make sure that I was okay in whatever decision I made, as long as I stayed close to Him. And I remained in constant communication with God, because I know that, you know, as we’re taught in the Worship Services, God will always guide you to a bright path. And that is something I want. You know, like, of course, who doesn’t want bright paths? Of course, you know, I have to make the sacrifices. So there are more benefits to doing so.

 Marielle: Sophomore year of high school, I started to do devotional prayers. And now like, I can’t sleep unless I do my. Yeah. And all I know is that like, at the end of the day, like, every single workout when God is like, on my side, and whenever God is with me, everything will work out. Like my friend, he’ll tell me, well, everything works out for you. Luck is on your side. And I was nodding in my head. I was like, it’s God. Like, this is all God. Like, every single thing that’s happened, and every single thing that I’m thankful for, it’s all because of God. And that’s why I always just thank you in my prayers, like, oh, thank you like, because it all worked out for me. Of course, like, there were times in High School where I just didn’t know what my future was going to be like. And I was definitely scared. But eventually everything worked out and everything will work out in the future, too. How crucial do you think it is to have lots of Church friends, while in college to help you stay strong in your faith?

Chanelle: Oh, I think it’s completely important, it’s most important to a lot of Church friends, because one, who wants to be lonely?  It’s okay, if you want to be alone, but loneliness is different. And you need those friends to be there to support you through every up and down that you have, especially when there are times when it’s difficult for you, yourself to see the positive and things. And having those Church friends, they are the ones who share the same values and understand your boundaries, you all are on the same path in life. And at the same time, you can also trust them to call you out whenever something bad happens, or when there’s something that you shouldn’t be doing. You know, we all need those friends to tell us like, what kind of friends would we be if we allow our friend to do something that would harm them? You know, and we can always trust that our Church friends would be the one to take care of us and make sure we’re not gonna do anything that’s going to harm us physically, emotionally, especially spiritually.

Marielle: Yeah, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here, as Binhis, as teenagers in the Church, we have a deeper understanding of each other. How did you deal with learning philosophies or other beliefs that went against our Christian beliefs? Like, for example, like philosophy classes that may question God’s existence? Yeah. And literature also questions God’s existence as well?

Chanelle: Yeah, that’s a really good question. And funnily enough, I did take a philosophy class, and I did take a world religions class. Well, I really just took it with a grain of salt. Because in the end, you know, you can learn about all these interesting religions, where they came from, and philosophies or, you know, kind of way of life. I understood where my faith was, I knew, like at least, you know, through the Bible studies that we’ve taken before we even got baptized, that already sets the foundation and basis of who God is and where God came from. And I think what a lot of people don’t realize, whenever it comes to having questions about your faith, or about the Bible, especially in my world religions class, you know, like, I was so curious about how other religions came to this conclusion or how, you know, why they believe that God is their God, you know, and the one thing we take for granted as members of the Church of Christ is asking. Just ask the Minister, that’s all it is. Don’t come to conclusions on your own because if you ask a Minister, these are people who have studied the Bible for years and have gotten certified on that. Who would know better,  would be a better source of knowledge than the Ministers that we have? They’re always there ready to answer all your questions. And we actually encourage it. And, you know, I was so grateful that, you know, one of my overseeing CFO Ministers was my source of asking, asking questions, and he would always answer them, and he was always patient with me. So that really helped me to understand and strengthen my faith all the more.

Marielle: Wow. Yeah. In my literature classes, and the books that we read, too. There’s, like my literature teacher, he was like an atheist. And he was pretty vocal to the class about it. And everyone else was pretty vocal about their beliefs, too. And when we would read certain articles about it, and like religious studies, like my eyes were reading, but my mind was like, I know the truth. 

Chanelle: Yes, you have that knowledge? 

Marielle: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much Chanelle, for your time. And for your amazing and helpful advice about college. 

Chanelle: No problem. It’s truly a pleasure to have met you. And to talk about these things. I think it’s really important to bring up, especially for incoming college students like you.

Marielle:  Yeah, your advice really, really helped me. And I’m going to think about it all the time. And when I start school, I’ll remember this, and I’ll listen back to this podcast and hear my weird voice. And I’m really happy and appreciative that I got to do this with you.

Chanelle: You know what, if anything, I’ll always be here. Feel free to message me on my socials. If you need help, advice, talk about Kpop or learn phrases. I am here for you. I appreciate you. 

Marielle: Thank you so much. 

Chanelle: Thank you. 

Aliw: Hi, guys! 

Chanelle and Marielle: Hello. Hi

Aliw:  I’m listening and I can tell Marielle, how much you really, I know you guys just met for this podcast. But when I first asked you if you wanted to be part of this podcast, you were so excited and eager. How important is it, especially for incoming freshmen, to get this kind of insight before starting this new chapter in your life? 

Marielle: Oh, well, I really wanted to have more guidance, and more articulate and clear advice and stories to hear about this too. So I could actually hear what you experienced as well. Like, this actually comforted me. And it really made me feel secure as a member who will be exposed to a lot of worldly things.

Aliw:  And for you Chanelle, what piece of advice do you wish someone told you about your freshman year that could have helped you that you now share with, you know, students like Marielle that’s about to start college?

Chanelle Aoguis: I wish someone told me to keep your mind open, but keep your heart guarded. It’s so easy to get carried away with the excitement of starting out as a new place that you might lose a sense of yourself in the midst of exams and meeting new people. But also be on guard from people who probably focus on too much fun or have different priorities from you. Just protect your heart at all times, protect your faith, because those values are what makes you shine the brightest.

Aliw: That’s a good one.

Marielle: That’s a really good one. 

Chanelle: I wish that someone told me to be prepared for change. That phrase itself is, you can easily take for granted. But Had I known all the changes I would have gone through in the start of my whole college career, it would have helped a lot because you know, as people were constantly learning and growing and developing as their own individuals, you know. Our opinions that we have had before may change now and our outside surroundings may change. We may also lose a few friends along the way. But the one thing that remains constant is yourself. So you should love yourself throughout this whole process of changes. And as we’re preparing for change, we always should make sure to leave room for God’s will. That is what has helped me the most, that is what has helped me with my perspective and how I should carry on through life with every trial that I’ve gone through. And you know, as long as I place my trust in Him and I talk to Him with my heart in every single prayer I know that I’ll never truly be alone.

Aliw:  Speaking of change since our podcast is called Making Changes. What do you think is the biggest change that you went through in your four years of college meaning the freshmen, Chanelle? 

Chanelle: Oh, my goodness. 

Aliw: And then the college graduate, Chanelle. Within those years, what do you think was the biggest change in you that either you had to make or just naturally happened? 

Chanelle:  The biggest change that I’ve dealt with, from you know, my freshman self, to my graduate self is my relationship with God. As a child–like growing up, you know, I’ve always understood where my faith was, and who God is and what role He played in my life. But in my college years, I’ve felt loneliness, deep, deep sadness, and feelings of being miserable, that I had no one to turn to. And that really forced me to, pushed me to talk to God at all times, and in leaning towards God. And in being patient with the lessons that he has taught me. It really has helped me with their perspectives on how I should view the world, how I should be the future. And you know how I am supposed to be at my very best self.

Aliw: Would you say that college is a time in someone’s life where it can either bring you closer to God in your case, or bring you further away from God? Do you think college is that pivotal time in someone’s life? They can do either or, and so it’s really about the choice of making or making that choice to consciously draw closer to God. But it has to be a conscious choice to do it?

Chanelle: Yes, I agree. College is one of those pivotal moments in your life, only because of the amount of temptation that is there. Like it’s so concentrated within your college years that you’re always gonna have to fight, not to say that there won’t be other pivotal moments in your life, but college is the one you should definitely look out for if you do decide to go to college.

Aliw: Well, I learned a lot. But I just want to say thank you guys. And I think that you both . We hope that this conversation is going to help a lot of college students listening out there who may be quietly struggling, right, and we hope that this little conversation will help them. Will help everybody strengthen their faith in some way. So thank you guys for your time. And good luck, Marielle, in college in the fall, and Chanelle, we’re so happy that you’re part of our INC Media family. And God has definitely carved your path for you and even brought you closer to Him. So thank you guys. 

Chanelle: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity.

[Music starts]

Aliw: Thanks to Chanelle and Marielle who were kind enough to open their hearts to us for this episode. And as always, if you found value in what you heard today, share it with someone starting college in the fall.  And if you’d like to see the faces behind the voices, check out our Instagram account @MakingChangespodcast. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

[Music ends]

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Brother Eric, thank you so much for joining us. And before we bring on our guest that you’re going to thank, can you tell us a little something Brother about who you’re going to be thanking today?

Brother Eric Waterman: Today, I’m thanking Brother Bob Pellien.  I met Brother Bob Pillien back in 1989, he introduced me to my beautiful wife and then he married my son, and he’s been there on all the important occasions of my life and always been there whenever I needed him, good times, bad times, storms and sunny days and rainy days. You know, just a real solid brother, a really nice friend, you know, could never count your blessings. But he’s one of the greatest blessings of my life.

Aliw Pablo:  From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. 

Hi everyone! Welcome to season 2 of Making Changes. I know it’s been a while we’re really excited to share this new season with you. You know, it’s not surprising that everyone who works on this podcast loves to hear stories about big life changes, the pivotal moments in our lives when everything begins to shift. But lately, we’ve also been talking a lot about those friends, acquaintances, sometimes, complete strangers—those individuals who become instrumental in making these big changes in our lives. And that’s exactly what brought us to season 2 of Making Changes. 

We’re calling this our “Thank You” series—it’s basically surprise phone calls or video calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life, and it’s a chance to say thank you. 

Today, we’ll hear from  Brother Eric Waterman, a minister of the gospel who will be talking to a friend and fellow minister who has had a great impact in his life for over 30 years. Let’s listen in… 

Brother Eric Waterman:  Good morning, Brother Bob. How are you there? 

Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Eric! Nice to hear from you, Brother. We haven’t talked in a long, long time. How have you been? How’s the family?

Brother Eric Waterman: Oh we’re very well, Brother. 

Brother Bob Pellien: So are you getting old yet?

Brother Eric Waterman: Yes, I hit the big 65 last year. So I’m officially a senior citizen. So I have my senior moments now. So but I try, I try my best to be happy. 

Brother Bob Pellien: There you go.

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, I just wanted to take the moment to really from the bottom of my heart, really, thanks for always being there. Always being a great friend. And always for the constant reminders, the advice, your kindness, the care, the counsel. You know, you’ve counseled me with my mom, with my ministry and my membership with my wife, with my family and with my kids. I mean, whenever I needed it, it just seemed like I got through to you, you know, and like, you were you were the cavalry, man. You were always you know, when I was surrounded, and the Indians were all around me, you would always just say, Brother, you know, we’re sending the cavalry. And every time you know, it was just there. And, you know, that’s what friends are for, you know, to the good times.

Brother Bob Pellien: We really consider you Brother Eric, a very dear friend and an important part of our family and our life too. But no need to thank me because it’s God that is good. You know, and you know that as a Minister, and I’m sure you tell that to members of the Church all the time. It’s God, that’s good. You know, and if ever I have shared anything with you, that has helped you or then I join you in thanking God for that, because, you know, you’ve been awesome for the Church, you have touched the lives of many and you know, if you consider me even a small part of, of your life and becoming who you are, well, I join you in thanking God for that. You’re pretty awesome, too. And I’m glad to see that you’re there and happy and performing your ministry, like you are, you know. Must be the upstate New York in you, I guess.

Brother Eric Waterman: Well, I don’t really know, you know. The work ethic, you know, you really set the bar quite high. And when we used to do our landscaping projects and those… 

Brother Bob Pellien: You remember that?  

Brother Eric Waterman: Yes, those improvement projects Brother Bob was like the ‘energizer bunny’ never slept and he’s always on the go, go, go. There’s always something to do, something to repair, something to paint, something to plan. And then we always were able to get on the road. (audio fade, conversation under VO)

Aliw Pablo: And with that, these  two brothers who are both from New York, went down memory lane and went thirty years back and began recalling  everything from gardening projects at the chapel compound, to long drives to visit local congregations…to late night pecan pie a la modes.

Brother Eric Waterman: And then do you remember the late night counseling sessions at Denny’s with the pecan pie and the alamode?

Brother Bob Pellien: I remember those days. We couldn’t finish the day without swinging by at the end of the day, usually like midnight. Get our pecan pie ala mode. Don’t forget the ala mode. You got to have a little vanilla ice cream there with that, right?

Brother Eric Waterman: How about the old days when you did the recording upstairs in CWS (Children’s Worship Service) Chapel of LA, that little room with one machine with one camera? 

Brother Bob Pellien: Oh, yes, yes, that was, that was a different time. The Church media Brother Eric now has really, really grown since those days, I tell you. Since those L.A. days when we used to be up there and that second floor and behind the LA chapel. 

Brother Eric Waterman: And that big tape machine with the big thick tape. The big…

Brother Bob Pellien: 400 pounds thing. Yes.

Brother Eric Waterman: You always inspired me. And then those were after days of planting, doing landscaping, doing visitation, doing all kinds of things. And then we’d go there in the middle of the night because of the traffic in LA. And then you’d record. And then those were the miracle moments where really God guided us home, holding on to the steering wheel as you were making your way back home. 

Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, I’m very thankful to you, too Brother Eric, because you stuck with me, during all those late night works at the studio there in LA along with Brother Ed Maranan. You know, we were a good team. And I am thankful that you are always there to point the camera in the right direction. 

Brother Eric Waterman: Everything was new to me.

Aliw Pablo: And it was at this point in the conversation when Brother Bob went back to that very first day they met in 1989 when Brother Eric was a guest at one of the worship services that Brother Bob officiated. Based on that first meeting, no one could have guessed this is how it was all going to turn out. 

Brother Bob Pellien:  You know. It’s so thrilling to see you having joined the ministry and come so far and and since then, because when you first arrived and we were doing our bible exposition or it was a worship service maybe, but I remember coming out to the lobby, reaching out my hand you know, you were a newcomer there, reach out my hand, shake your hand, welcome you. Before even saying “Hello, nice to meet you.” Any kind of normal thing. Do you remember what you said? I remember, remember it explicitly. You said not like “Hello” or anything…you said, “I’m not staying, you know, I’m just here because of this guy that I drove. I’m not staying so and I won’t be here again.” But well, you know, I remember thinking to myself, well, “That’s what you say right now. We’ll see what God says, you know?” And sure enough, again, I don’t know if you remember so but the next day, you were there! You came back!

Brother Eric Waterman: And that was a two hour drive from Newport. You know, with the traffic, I had to go through three freeways. And then everybody that knew me said, “You’re out of your mind. You’re going to East LA, you’re on the beach, why would you go to East LA, there’s no purpose there.” So I remember the Bible studies upstairs. You know, when you have the overhead. Brother Bob this is a true story, huh? I thought everybody in that room was a Bible student.  Come to find out, I’m the one turning the overheads. I’m the Bible student. And all the others were the officers of the church that were there. It was a really enjoyable time there. And I learned a lot about…

Brother Bob Pellien: You did that for the whole time I was assigned there in San Gabriel Valley. You were, you became, you kind of adopted that duty to help make those slides and project them up on the screen while I was reading the verses. You were pretty awesome at that.

Brother Eric Waterman: And I really thought that this is the only way of God’s plan for me to be saved. It’s got to be the end of days, you know, I’ve already experienced three lifetimes before I met you. I mean, I had a really colorful life. It was quite a blessed life. And then “No, brother, you’ll have to wait another month.” And I’m like, “Oh, but what about the Holy Supper.” And so anyway, we waited another month, and then I got baptized, and then the last Holy Supper was up someplace in Washington. So brother, Bob, I remember that I was excited to get baptized, and then all my sins be forgiven me. So the one day I got baptized, and then the next day, I’m asking to be forgiven of my sins. And I remember the Minister saying, boy, this brother must have had life before. So I really thought that it was the end of days. And it really, I’m just amazed because you used to always say, “Just watch Brother Eric, just watch the Church and its growth.” And you used to say that to me all the time that “you ain’t seen nothing yet.” So when I came over to the Philippines in ‘91,  I was like a fish out of water. I had no idea what to expect over here and I was able to meet the Executive Minister and shook his hand and we were able to go to the museum. And it was really a surreal moment, you know, and I walked into the museum and Sir, Brother Eraño Manalo was asking me why are you here, Brother? And I said, “to show the Administration my heart.” And it was really from that moment on, you know, and even on my ordination, Sir, Brother Eraño Manalo was saying, “you might be wondering why you’re here.” And I was like, “Yes, I’m the last one that I thought would be here.” And he said, direct to me, it felt to me every time you know, he talks it seems straight to the heart. Same with you. You know, that’s why I kept coming back to the worship service. You know, there were 200 people in that congregation. But every time you preached, it was like, man, pow, right between the eyes. And you know, the truth is something that we can’t deny. You either are in it, or you’re not in it. And I had to realize that really, God was having a purpose and plan. 

Brother Bob Pellien: You know, Brother Eric, one of the most wonderful things in my life, is watching someone like yourself and watching yourself specifically, from the moment you said, I’m not here for any reason, I’m not coming. I’m just driving this and I was Wilfred Mercurio, I remember, and I’m just driving for him. And, you know, I’m not, I’m not here, I want, you know. From that moment, until the moment when you so dearly wanted to attend the holy supper and be baptized. And, you know, watching that transition, you know, watching you go from that person who was so insistent, I don’t need any baptism. I don’t need anything I don’t need. I’m not here, you know, and then you just, I don’t know what happened overnight while you slept or whatever  because you came back the next day, and there you go, like, what’s this all about, you know, what’s going on here, kind of thing. 

Brother Eric Waterman: Well, Brother Wilfred, he came down the next day, and I lived in a guard gated community with a you know, the intercom and camera. In those days, you know, you kind of didn’t let anyone into your neighborhood or your house. And he stood outside my house until I answered the door. And I’m like, oh geez!  So he really missionized me and really tried his best.

Aliw Pablo: Listening to both Brother Bob and Brother Eric reflect on what they’ve gone through all these years, I couldn’t help but notice how grateful they are for one another—they have that kind of friendship that one could only hope for. 

Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Eric, you know the memories that I have in the early days with you are memories that I will cherish forever. You know, I’m so thankful and so thankful that our friendship has continued to blossom over the years. And I’m so thankful that you and your son now are in this Holy Ministry, and have been helping the Church Administration do all the things that you’ve been doing. God bless you for that. And what a great blessing you’ve been to the Church.

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, I just like the thank you again. You know, you’ve been a role model to me. I remember so many times you taking under your wings, so many people that were complete strangers to you, you know there were those that we sought out that were lost, you bound up that which was broken.

Brother Bob Pellien: Like I said, you know, I don’t take any of those things to myself, you know, I’m thankful to God that if ever I had such kind of impact on anybody, it’s God who has been there and doing that. We’re just, we’re just a mouthpiece. We’re just an instrument that I and I know that’s what you teach to the ministerial students under your care nowadays, and congratulations on being trusted with that great duty by the Church Administration. 

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob,  really, I appreciate everything that you’ve done for our life and for so many. And I know you’re just a humble guy, and you just will say that I’m just serving God but really, words can never express how much I love you, brother.

Brother Bob Pellien: Those are very kind words, Brother Eric. We love you, too. Give a hug to Sister Geralyn and Brother Cameron and Brother Tristan the next time that you see them. And I know you got a Worship Service you need to get to. So get to it. Get to it. And God bless you, Brother Eric. God bless you.

Aliw Pablo:  Thank you brothers for letting us be part of your conversation. And it really is truly inspiring, brothers seeing the kind of love, friendship, and respect for your duties and for each other, and for those under your care. But, Brother Eric, before we go, we are just, with everything that you’ve mentioned, brother, with, you know, over 35  years of friendship with Brother Bob, what would you say Brother has been the biggest change or impact that Brother Bob has had on your life?

Brother Eric Waterman: He taught me what integrity means.

Brother Bob Pellien: That is such a nice thing to say, Brother Eric. God bless you. And you’ve shown your fair share of integrity and honor. And with all the Ministers in the Church doing that the world will learn it from true Ministers.

Aliw Pablo: And Brother Bob, your friendship has lasted decades. What would you say, Brother Bob is the importance of friendships like these? Why are these types of friendships important, especially when you’re in the ministry? And you’re able to share your ministerial journeys together, brother?

Brother Bob Pellien: Well, you know, I never had a son. And I would, I would see everyone that comes in like part of the family, you know. Brother Eric became part of our family. You know, you have the same birthday, of course with our daughter, Naomi, and they, every year she actually puts a big stuffed animal that you gave her on the chair at the table and always says that’s Brother Eric, you know.  Sometimes, some people just are the mirror of what you hope to be and what if I had a son what I would hope my son to be, you know, grow and become someone with honor, with integrity, with strong faith, with a love of the Church Administration, you know, and Brother Eric, is that. How could you not be a friend to someone like that? You know, how could you not love someone like that, you know? If everyone knew that depth of Brother Eric’s love as well, they would consider him a friend too, if they had the chance to be. And I’m honored to be counted as a friend of Brother Eric.

Aliw Pablo: Special thanks to Brother Eric Waterman and Brother Bob Pellien for sharing the story of their friendship and a special bond of brotherhood that has withstood the test of time. Now is there someone that has made a huge change and impact in your life that you’d like to thank? We’d love to hear from you! Send us a dIrect message on our instagram account  @makingchangespodcast, and we’d love to connect you with an old friend, classmate, teacher or anyone who you want to thank.

If you enjoyed what you heard today, be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you’ll always be up to date with our latest episodes. And while you’re at it, feel free to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. As always, thanks for listening and may your change uplift you! 

Aliw: Hey everyone, it’s Aliw. For this month, we wanted to feature this special episode, between father and son, who are both in the holy ministry. If you haven’t heard this conversation between Brother Donald and Brother Daniel Pinnock, I guarantee it’ll leave you with a smile on your face, and you’ll pick up some worthwhile life lessons, as well. It’s a moving and candid conversation between father and son about being dads, and devoting their lives to the Church. 

Brother Donald Pinnock: You know, what’s really strange, son? When we visited you in France, when we went to Marseille, and you were preaching in—

Brother Daniel Pinnock: Oh man, I totally forgot about that…

Brother Donald: …in Tagalog, and also English. I’m sitting there listening to my son preaching Tagalog and also slices of English and French at the same time. And it was just like, wow. But I did notice, I really noticed that for you, I wasn’t there, because you were really concentrating on the brethren. And I could, I could also feel that the love that you have for them.  So, that just made me even prouder, I suppose, and now, I’m telling you,

Brother Daniel: Well, like father, like son, Pop, it’s all the mercy of God.

[Show Open]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No matter where you are in the world, there is one thing we have all experienced together, change. This pandemic has forced us out of our comfort zones, and has pushed us into a new norm. And we simply surrendered and figured out a way to thrive. I’m your host, Aliw Pablo, and welcome to Making Changes, a new podcast from INC Media Audio. In this podcast, you’ll hear honest conversations between two people who are on the same path to change, but are in different stages in their journeys. And we’ll learn how they’ve navigated their way around their new normal, but always with God by their side. 

On today’s episode, you’ll meet a father and son who have both decided to devote their lives in the holy ministry, Brother Donald Pinnock, assigned in Toronto, Canada, and also the host of the INC Media show, The Solution. We’ll be talking with his son, Brother Daniel Pinnock, currently assigned in Val-d’Oise, France, just outside of Paris. Today, we’ll learn about this close-knit father and son relationship, and they’ll take us back to their journey and how they answered God’s call to devote their lives to the Church. Brother Daniel who calls his dad, Pop, will seek advice from his father, on parenting his two young sons, while living a life in service to God and others. We’ll be flies on the wall as they share life lessons they’ve learned along the way. Let’s listen in.

Brother Daniel: Hey, Pops, thanks for sitting down with us and having this kind of conversation with me. How’s everything there?

Brother Donald: Good, son. It’s great to talk to you. You know how much we miss you and the family.

Brother Daniel: I miss you and mom, too. Please give my love to mom and Chantel.

Brother Donald: Always.

Brother Daniel: First off, Pop, try not to cry, okay? 

Brother Donald: I can’t promise you anything.

Brother Daniel: Right off the bat, Dad, I just wanted to say, thanks. I’ve never really had a chance to, you know, say thank you for the advice and guidance that you’ve given me throughout my life and throughout both my pre-ministry and ministerial life. So you still continue to give that kind of advice. So I still want to express the kind of gratitude and know that when it comes to everything you’ve taught me up until this point, and all the advice that you still give. I’m always taking it to heart and I try my best to follow it. So, thanks for all of that, Pop.

Brother Donald:  And even if you didn’t say thanks, and it’s a labor and fruit of love. You know how much your dad loves you and your sister. So, you know, love motivates everything that we try to do. We try their best as parents for you. 

Brother Daniel: So far, so good, Pop, with God’s help.

Brother Daniel: Let’s take it back a little bit, Pop, when it comes to you joining the ministry. I figured that’s where we could start because that’s what we have in common right now, aside from families.  

Brother Daniel: When it comes to you joining the ministry, Pop, and I know you’ve explained it to me before, but I guess my question right now is,  when it comes to what you had to give up, to join the ministry, because at the time if I remember correctly, you were already married, you had me – newborn, you already had a job. So you were established as far as you know, living your life, as a member of the Church Of Christ. You had a duty or duties in the Church, you were performing them. So what was the, what was the reason or the catalyst for giving that up, to join the ministry? Was there any specific mindset that you had at the time?

Brother Donald: I think looking back, even though I had a, let’s say, a rough upbringing. I learned a lot, I experienced a lot, and all thanks be to God. But little by little, He started to channel me towards the Church. And, you know, eventually becoming a baptized member of the Church in 1985. And inside the Church, that is when I started to experience real progress when it came to my life. 

Brother Daniel: Okay

Brother Donald: I started to be more successful. Yes, by the time I was a member of the Church, I was already in my career as a graphic artist. I mean, the most important void within me was filled, when I became a member of the Church. That was a lot. That was 99%, we can say that I became a member of the Church that filled the void within me, because before then, I just felt empty. 

Brother Daniel: Okay

Brother Donald: But I became a member of the Church, I became full. However, there was still a part of me that was seeking more. 

Brother Daniel: Okay

Brother Donald:  Seeking more when it came to my life. You may have heard the expression, ‘The purpose of life is a life of purpose.’ Before I found what my real purpose was, yes, it was nine to five Monday to Friday, you work, you save up, you plan to get a house, you have your family, you work hard, if you’re lucky, you pay off the house that you get your retirement and enjoy the last decade of life. But I just couldn’t see myself doing it. I really couldn’t see myself doing it. There was no compulsion. It was almost drudgery to drag myself out to, again, a career that was paying. But at the same time, there was just something that was missing inside.

Brother Daniel: Okay. 

Brother Donald: And I was a CWS [Children’s Worship Service] teacher. And our dear Brother Pastor Palacios, he was the resident minister there in Toronto. I remember after a class, he said, just out of the blue, he says, “Who knows, you may join.”

Actually, what happened was we finished the class and I was walking out of the chapel there in Toronto. And I started walking towards the bus stop. I was taking the bus at that time. And all of a sudden, I heard that inner voice saying who knows one day you’re going to be a minister. And I started laughing to myself. I really did. I was laughing to myself. So that’s ridiculous, me a minister. But then, as time went by, I really started to, dwell on 

Brother Daniel: The idea 

Brother Donald: Of being in the ministry. Which was something, before then, I would never ever think of, to the point that we went to the Philippines, in 1990. Myself and  your mom spent some time and we visited Brother Erano G. Manalo. Me and your mom, we spoke and we said, “Okay, I’m going to ask permission if I could study in the ministry.” 

Brother Donald: And at the end of the visitation, he turned around, he says, 

“Yes, you can study in the ministry.” 

Brother Donald: So that changed everything. 

Brother Daniel: Okay.

Brother Donald: That changed everything that was 1990. And yes, I could see that it would be very difficult. But at the same time, there was something that was really driving me.

Brother Donald: Maybe like father, like son. 

Brother Daniel: Which is crazy, Dad.

Brother Donald: It’s as if that need for purpose that you had was like, through heredity, was just installed. 

Brother Daniel: Do you remember when I told you I was joining the ministry? That 

Brother Donald: Yeah. But that was maybe a week or so after you graduated from university. 

Brother Daniel: Yeah. 

Brother Donald: And then you and I went out, we to a Vietnamese Pho. Well, we went, and we sat down. It was probably a long time since we had a father and son discussion like we did there. And it was because of course, your mom

Brother Daniel: Gung ho

Brother Donald: Gung ho. She wanted you…

So more or less in that conversation, if you remember, we talked about pros and cons, there’s no real cons, per se. But there are certain realities that have to be accepted. Again, when the Administration goes, you go there, you go there, there’s no complaint. When it comes to discipline — we make a mistake, we fall short of expectations, and there’s a discipline there,iIt has to be accepted. So in many ways, it’s like you’re, you’re entering into the military, but this is a holy military. So it’s the holy ministry. 

And some of what I went through, I relate to you in that conversation, and I told you at the end, more or less, son, whatever your decision is, I will accept it wholeheartedly. But don’t join the ministry, because I’m in the ministry. It can’t be, it has to be because you feel that God is calling you. And you should also understand that it’s a lifetime commitment. It’s not just a trait now, you don’t like it.  Okay, I’ll take off because, that’s really doing a 180 in ways you’re turning away from God. 3

Brother Daniel: In truth, you didn’t just sit down and talk, do you remember, you wrote me a letter about that? You don’t you don’t remember that email? Do you?

Brother Donald: I sent you so many.

Brother Daniel: You don’t remember that email though? 

Brother Donald: Did we have email in those days? 

Brother Daniel: Yes we had email. How far back do you think this was, Pop? This was less than 10 years ago. I’ve been a minister since 2017. Four years, now going into 2021. But you wrote me an email, right in the same week that I was graduating, that’s where you listed out, like what you mentioned, 

Brother Donald: Do you still have it?

Brother Daniel: Yes, I’m looking at it right now. I printed it out.

Brother Donald: Really?

Brother Daniel: Yes, I saved it, Pop

Brother Donald: Send me a copy.

Brother Daniel: I’ll send you a copy afterwards. But I’ll read you one part just to see if it jogs your memory. But the first part right there it says: 

“I’ve been wanting to write to you for some time, but as usual, so busy. Anyway, I’m taking a little while here to mention a few matters. You’re reaching that stage of life, when you have to make serious decisions concerning your future. You’re about to step out of being a student per se and into manhood, the path that you take in life will be based on your decision, even though overall God will have known already.” 

Brother Daniel: And then that’s where you go and talk about, you know, life in the ministry, which you’ve experienced, and then life outside of the ministry, and what you’ve experienced. But that letter was before, our sit down there at the Vietnamese restaurant.

Brother Daniel: It was nice, it was a nice prep for entering the ministry. 

Brother Donald: And you had job offers remember?

Brother Daniel: Yes, ,that was but that was like God’s way of testing if I really wanted to go to the ministry, because that was right around the time when it was time to enter the ministry. 

Brother Daniel: Oh, here’s one for you, Pop because we’re talking about going into the ministry. So I decided to join, I was chasing that purpose in life as well. that was a big one for me, because that was a big point that you always instilled in me in Chantel. That was to always love the brethren and take care of them, and I figured, with all the love the brethren have shown us, what better way can I help them, then, to help them in their services to God, so why not be a minister? 

Brother Daniel: So going into the ministry now, with all the reasons that were already laid out. I’m trying to get my mindset around how different it must have been me studying there versus your time. What were some of the biggest aspects of studying in the Philippines you had to deal with, Pop? Aside from the obvious, you know, language, difference in culture and food? What would you say, if you can remember, or like the biggest challenges or the biggest adjustments that you had to make as far as studying, actually studying now, in the ministry?

Brother Donald: The biggest challenge for me when it came to my studies was being alone. Being the only black man in a school of hundreds and hundreds of ministerial students, I was the only black at that time. That’s an old brother Greg, a good, best Friend.. He’s a best friend in the ministry. And I really miss that guy, 

Brother Daniel: I miss brother Greg, Pop.

Brother Donald: He really helped a lot in those years, because we used to spend a lot of time together, after class and everything. But what compelled me was, especially when, before I entered the ministry was, here’s this glorious Church, doctrines – watertight, solid; there was just absolutely no new poll or leak when it came to the teachings. And it’s like, wow, people have to know about this Church. And especially people of my kind, meaning to say, non-Filipinos, but fellow blacks – they need to know. 

And, my purpose was just developing. And it was, getting into fourth or fifth gear was going turbo by that time. So even when I went there, in fact, if I can just retell this I don’t know if; in fact, I’m sure I told you, but when you were one year old, your mom was still a choir member that I have set up for the choir because I had to, spend more time when it comes to preparing my studies. So as an overseer, and one worship service in Toronto, I had to babysit you. And near the end of the worship service, we’re in the nursery. All of a sudden, you started to have convulsions, to the point where your eyes were rolling to the back of your head, your lips turned blue. And you were listless and it was right at the end of the worship service. So I just kind of ran out of the nursery and I’ve just virtually shouting for somebody to help. 

Brother Donald: Fortunately, there are a couple of sisters who were  nurses, they came. They tried to help out but still you seem very listless. And in fact, I was afraid you’re gonna die. And we went into the office, Brother Raniel Serrano, the Minister, called me in and he prayed for you, and immediately you started to return to normal. 

But I will never forget that there was that proverbial voice inside that said, “The life of your son is in my hands, you do what I tell you to do.” 

And the reason why that happened was because a couple of months before I started to have doubts, I started to hesitate because I said to leave all my friends, I was going to leave a well paying job – we were just at a point of buying our first house. And I’m thinking, are you crazy gonna leave all this behind? 

Brother Donald: And let’s face it, life there in the Philippines at that time, especially for a foreigner was going to be very, very difficult.

Brother Daniel: For sure.

Brother Donald: But then because of what happened in that worship service, that removed every single iota of doubt that I had. I was there, even though I was the only black man, still I was so focused. I knew God wanted me to be there. And that was, that was everything. I knew he wanted me to be there to study in a ministry. And that’s why, glory be to God, I was able to stick it out. And now, looking back and seeing so many ministerial students of different cultural backgrounds, there’s a great joy in my heart, and especially when it comes to seeing my son as a minister. I mean, can’t be happier.

Brother Daniel: How about now, 30 years later? What’s been the drive to keep you performing that duty? Because I’m just starting and I haven’t even hit five years yet. So I’m trying to picture in my head, Pop—what, five times four? Four more years? Or sorry, four more times? Just five years? What’s the drive that’s kept you performing that duty, the way that you’re expected to as a minister?

Brother Donald: Love—love of God. And because I have all of these years in the ministry, I can look back. And I, you know, I can see the condition, and also the position of the Church in the 1990s. 

Brother Daniel: Okay—

Brother Donald: …and here I am in 2020, you know, I mentioned earlier when it comes to seeing all of these non-Filipino ministers coming from virtually every cultural background in the world; the houses of worship, all of these congregations. here in Toronto before when you were growing up? It was normal for ministers here to have eight worship services a week to conduct eight—so six to eight worship services a week—because we were short, few in number. 

Brother Daniel: Oh, yeah. 

Brother Donald: … few a number. But definitely love, love of God, love of the Lord Jesus Christ—because we’re seeing all of these prophecies being fulfilled, and of course, love of the brethren. You really get to care. But if I’m going to point to one delightful aspect of my ministry, no matter what it has to be preaching, I love to preach. 

Brother Daniel: It’s crazy that you say that, because for me so far in my ministry, you know, preaching the words of God, the way the Church Administration taught us to preach. That’s like—that brings the most fire; the most drive to my idea of the ministry—is being able to preach.  And that’s where it feels the most—it’s so flowing. It helps that what we’re preaching is the truth, and we see it happening. And you can see it being fulfilled in our lives and the lives of the brethren. That’s  what adds to that love for preaching the words of God, and sharing them with people. 

Brother Donald: Yeah, I just always look forward (to it) until today. You know, it has always been taught by the ministers in the past, that you should always consider every worship service assignment, as not only your last, which is very important, because it could be your last; but also an opportunity for you to deliver a perfect message. And when I say a perfect message,  it is not just words, per se, but words that will impact the listeners coupled with the gift of the Holy Spirit. So, that can’t be done unless you know your way of life when it comes to your prayers—your devotional prayers—and also when it comes to studying the lesson. But I just love to preach. I just want to help the brethren to just stay firm, bring them closer to God and deliver them to Him, you know? We’re just mouthpieces. 

You know, what’s really strange son was, for example, when we visited you in France, then we went to Marseille. And then you were preaching in Tagalog and also English.

Brother Daniel: I totally forgot about that! 

Brother Donald:  Now I’m sitting there listening to my son preaching Tagalog, and also with slices of English and French at the same time, and it was just like, wow. But I did notice—I really noticed that for you, I wasn’t there. You were really concentrating on the brethren, and I could also feel the love that you have for them. So, that just made me even prouder. Now I’m telling you,

Brother Daniel: Like father, like son, Pop. It’s all the mercy of God. 

Brother Donald: You were in Canada. You had to come back because of your paperwork. I believe the visa that you had in France was only good for a year or so?

Brother Daniel: No, it was three months. It was three months. 

Brother Donald: So, you had to leave the country. And you came back to Canada. And of course, they gave you a worship service assignment. And then we were graced with sharing a worship service. 

Brother Daniel: Yeah—

Brother Donald: It was in the locale of Markham. I remember we were both sitting there as father and son, and then I gave you the nod for you to stand and start to preach. And while you’re preaching, it really felt as if I was looking in the mirror. It’s like I was looking back in time at myself. And you even sounded like me!

Brother Daniel: First of all, as far as the preaching when I was even in my studies, and I was preaching out loud, practicing, there were times where I stopped myself.  I said, man, I’m starting to sound like Pop. Like , I can see exactly how he says it. And I guarantee you, Pop, I can do the same exact intonations that you do on certain questions or certain verses, like, for tone for tone, I could match you. That’s how it for me was God’s way of showing like, you know, your, your Donald Pinnock’s son. So for me, it was a point of pride.  That first worship service assignment, Pop, for me was a big time blessing. 

Brother Donald:  Yeah, those are memories that God gifted us with, that I’ll cherish. I’ll cherish until my last days.

Brother Daniel: What advice would you give me about raising these two munchkins who are super crazy—

Brother Donald:  [laughing] You know, those early years of the child’s development—it’s like,  placing them in the car, without giving them instructions. For sure they’re going to crash in the lake, have accidents,  make mistakes. You know, Christian discipline, it’s really important. And you also have to create it, where you’re able to have that warm relationship with your children. You know, the open lines of communication, talking to them as if it’s an older brother to a younger brother, sort of thing. That’s why, you know, I just love—I really enjoy what we have, because we can just talk, we can laugh, and we can joke. 

Brother Daniel:  And I’ve always told everyone this, you’re a minister, before you’re my Pop. But you’ve always done that balance of, you know, of raising me and Chantel,  to recognize that you’re a minister. You are going to discipline and raise us and correct us based on the teachings of God. But that love of being our father, always was and always will be there. We always felt it. So that’s—I’m hoping I can give that kind of balance, as well.

Brother Donald: I’m sure you will, son. Do I have regrets? I have to confess, yes. And the regrets are, when it comes to not being able to spend more time with you, and your sister, Chantel.

Brother Daniel: It always worked out, Pop, because that’s when, believe it or not, me or Chantel—we were always the most proud of you, and we knew where you were.  We never even when we talked about it—if Chantel even remembers from back in the day, we would talk about you being gone either for, you know, being in the locale or out of the locale like you mentioned, and it was never with any regret on our end. 

Brother Donald: As a father, I suppose, that’s where the regret is. So, my advice to you, as much as possible, even though there are circumstances that you will not be able to control, but as much as possible, try to be there.  Spend some real quality time, talking, laughing with your kids. It’s everything.  Time is that commodity, you know, one second goes by, and you can’t get it back.

Brother Daniel: I guess in closing, Pop, I mean, thanks for joining me on a trip down memory lane. And I just want you to know that I’m always praying and I’m always thankful to God, for blessing my life with parents, who not only love me and Chantel, but you know, raised us to, to recognize God. I mean, being born inside the Church, that was a grace that no one really controls. So, all praise, all glory to God for that. And what God has done to give us parents that raised us to know God, and to give importance to what God wants, to serve Him— enough that, you know, the son enters the ministry and my sister’s an active member and officer. So, I’m always thankful to God for that. And my prayer for you and mom, especially in these golden years of your life together, is just the best of health and that you keep being a minister that, you know, God can keep using to help the brethren.

Brother Donald:  As for me, son, I’m really, really happy and fortunate. I pray for you and your family. Every single night, on bent knees,  that God will keep all of you safe and that He’ll bless you in your ministry. Yeah, we miss you all. We love you all. And again, I’m very proud of you, son. 

Brother Daniel: I miss you too, Pop. 

Brother Donald: I’m very, very proud. 

Brother Daniel: God’s good, Pop. Thanks so much.

Aliw Garcia: Hello Brother Daniel and Brother Donald. It’s so nice to listen in, and just simply be a witness to the love that you both have for each other.

Brother Daniel: Thanks for having us! 

Aliw Garcia: What was so beautiful about listening to your conversation is, not only do we feel the love between the both of you, but the friendship. You know, we can really feel that you’re not just father and son, but you really are best friends and best buddies. 

Now, Brother Daniel, I know that you’ve kept the e-mails and you have kept all the advice that your dad has given you through the years. But would you be able to point out the one thing that you always hear, one piece of advice that is constantly in your head, as you go on as a father; as kind of like your moral compass,  as you go on in your ministry.

Brother Daniel: The one I guess voice that I could always hear, Brother Donald, my dad, saying is, to trust God. It’s shown so much in everything that he’s done and has happened in his life. Like, from the beginning, we’re talking, just becoming a member of the Church of Christ. Why? Because he trusted God enough to believe his words. So, he joined the Church. Why did you join the ministry? Because he trusted God enough that when he saw certain signs, aspects of his life, he answered the call, he joined the ministry. You know, he trusts God enough to, to love the brethren through the hard times, and to see what God did in return because of that love and care for the brethren. He trusts God enough to always remind me to, you know, submit to the Church Administration. That’s why we follow the lead of the Church Administration, because that’s what God wants us to do. And that extends to my family, and raising these kids now, and having my own wife and and my own ministry—that will always be the reminder that I’ll remember from Brother Donald, my Pop, as far as being a father now and being a minister, is to just keep trusting God. Keep trusting his words that the Church Administration never gets tired of reminding us, that God will be the one to prove that that trust was well founded. And he’ll prove it multiple times. I’m sure of it.

Aliw Garcia: And Brother Donald, you know, I, myself, I am from a ministerial family, and like you mentioned there was really something special about the bond between, you know, ministerial families, and just this call of duty. You talked about sharing a podium with your son, which, you know, I have to say, not a lot of ministers and their ministerial sons can honestly say they’ve been able to do. Can you describe the joy of having a son serve alongside you in the Holy ministry? What does that feeling like? And what is life like, you know, with that kind of shared purpose?

Brother Donald: It’s extremely surreal. You feel another level of spirituality. It goes beyond chance, beyond luck. And you really understand that this is God’s will. Just to be with Daniel, sharing a worship service, was amazing. To sit down in the congregation when I was on family week, and again, listening to him preach, was also, you know, so heartwarming. I can’t really—I can’t really ask for much more.

Aliw Garcia: Now, wasn’t that just a heartwarming conversation? Thanks again, Brother Daniel and Brother Donald for taking the time to share your stories and life lessons. 

And if you found value in what you just heard, please share it with your dad or your son, and let them know you’re thinking about them. 

Now, be sure to subscribe and stay up to date with new episodes of Making Changes. And we’d love it if you can leave us a review on whatever platform you’re listening from. For more inspiring content, log on to incmedia.org,  or download the INC Media app. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Aliw: Hi everyone! It’s Aliw. We wanted to bring back an episode that hit a chord with so many of you. In case you haven’t heard this conversation between Felix and Robert, this is a must listen. It’s a deeply personal conversation between two men who went  against all family traditions and the courage it took for them to stand up for what they believed in.

Felix: My question, Robert, was…like how would you still be able to talk to them—even if—when they still denied your invitations?

Robert: Well, when you’re inviting them to come to a Bible study or join worship service, or you know, to come and listen, and you’re noticing that that’s a point of tension, right? Because then all of a sudden, the conversation doesn’t go quite the way that you wanted it to. And you have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right? Be present, as the son, as a brother, as you know, as the nephew, or whoever the relatives are, that are there.

Felix, you’re not alone. There are stories like this, all throughout the church in every country. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Today’s episode is about making big life changes – big enough that it affects your relationship with your family. Meet Felix, a listener who we met on Instagram. He recently found the truth in the Church Of Christ but is having challenges in his relationships with his family. Felix will be talking to Robert who joined the Church Of Christ over 20 years ago, who also experienced his own set of challenges with his family but have now found peace with them.

Let’s listen in.

Robert: Hey, Felix, how are you?

Felix: I’m doing good, Robert. How about you?

Robert: Oh, well, it’s good. It’s always good to be able to meet and talk to, you know, other members, even though you cross the country? You know, we’re also tightly knit.

Felix: Yeah, so basically, my questions were, you know, now that I’m a member of the Church, you know, even though when I was going through Bible studies, I was always, I was still facing persecution. Basically, it was last year where most of the time of 2021, it was very, very heartbreaking because of being persecuted by my own, even by my own loved ones. So my question is to you, you know, being persecuted at home, how did you still continue to communicate with your family?

Robert: Well, it’s—how long have you been in the Church, Felix? 

Felix: I’ve been in the Church for seven months?

Robert: Seven months? Well, that’s, it’s a wonderful blessing. You know, persecution is a hard word. It’s a tough word. Because often, it comes from a place where people think that it’s, it’s coming from a place of being mean, right? And a lot of times what it is, it’s just confusion or lack of understanding, you know, about what’s going on. And then, you know, of course, when they don’t understand and it comes across, in a way that you know, you might be feeling like persecution. And I’ll just share a little bit about, you know, my background, right? I’m the only member in my family, that’s a member of the Church. I was baptized back in 1989.

Aliw: This is when Robert opens up to Felix about his past. Robert begins to share how being raised Catholic, being an altar boy and doing all the rituals, suddenly didn’t feel right for him. As a young adult, he began church hopping from the Baptist church, then Pentecostal, then explored Evangelical Christianity, then became a born again Christian. 

Robert: But you know, as most people find out, there was just a lot of ad libbing that was going on. And it wasn’t really as scripturally-based than what I was needing in my life. So I finally found the Church Of Christ, you know, and I was introduced to it and went through all the Bible studies, and I asked a ton of questions to the Minister that was giving me my Bible studies. And a lot of it is because I’d spent the last—at the time, I was only 24—24 years of my life in one religion. And when you spend that much time, and you’ve accumulated that much experience in history in that one religion, you’re going to have a lot of questions. So I asked a lot of questions. And really, everything that was given back to me came straight from the Bible, it was exactly what I was looking for. Then, you know, they didn’t try to interpret anything they didn’t try to, you know, cover everything up as a mystery. It was exactly from the Scripture.  So when I obviously became a member coming from a family that was devout Catholics, it wasn’t something that was looked upon very favorably. Right? Leaving the church. And when that happened, a lot of what you’re probably describing as persecution was happening to me. They didn’t understand, you know, why I would leave the religion that I was in for 24 years at the time. It was hard for them to understand why this transition, and all of the different things were changing about me, you know. I was living a different life, so we didn’t celebrate a lot of the holidays that the Catholics would celebrate, right? So, I wouldn’t be involved in those and I think that that’s where some of that comes from, right? Because they just they don’t understand, 

And a lot of people are afraid of things that they don’t understand. And that’s what turns into what we perceive to be persecution. 

And what I found is that through that whole point, there was a point where almost up to two years, we didn’t talk. For two years. That’s a long time. 

Felix: You and your family?

Robert: Yeah. And I lived in New York, they lived in California, And the one thing that I did is I just never gave up trying to show that, you know, that I’m still reaching out that I still want to communicate, that, you know, because I’m in this religion, now, it doesn’t mean that I don’t love you. That you know, your family, you know, you’re still my family. 

Aliw:  Two years. Robert spent two whole years reaching out to his family and getting very little in return. I heard shock… and maybe even fear, in Felix’s voice. As if he’s picturing what might happen to him. But then, Robert tells Felix when his family finally reached back out to him. 

Robert: And it took just never stopping and reaching out in what finally turned the table when my mom got really sick. And they, you know, my brothers and sisters reached out to me, because, you know, at that point, we didn’t know what’s going to happen. And, you know, thank God, she was okay, she recovered. But that really is what sort of started the communication over again.

And it’s just, it’s difficult, but they’re gonna say things that may not sit well with you. And you just have to remember that it’s not—they’re your family, they love you. And all of that they’re just coming from a place of not understanding and not knowing, so they might say things that hurt, but just you know, remember you’re still going to continue to love them

Felix: I’ll be honest with you because, I would tell my little brother I’m trying not to remember all the negative things that they said about me because, trust me, it was really hard.

Robert: I know. 

Felix: Like I said, I’m just trying to stay strong and continue on putting them in my prayers. Because when I was at home, every day, me and my little brothers, we would just look at each other, we wouldn’t talk. Me and my mom, we would have arguments, you know, like, whoa, why did you join this church and then my dad after, when he came back…He told me straight up to my face, like, I don’t want to join your religion, put that in your head. And you know that every time at the worship services, it’s always giving me signs of me, wanting them to invite them, but when I have a chance to invite them I feel everything, you know, falls apart. So you know, that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do is just trying to be more positive.

Robert: Well, that’s the right attitude to be positive. Because, you know, I’ll tell you, right now, Felix, I’m still the only member of my family that’s a member of the Church. This is 32 years, right? And, but I will tell you that when we first started, I was much like, in the same situation where they didn’t want to hear anything about the Church, and it’s because they didn’t understand.

You know, you have all these feelings, like you’re, you’re doubting yourself, like, you know, why is this happening now? And, you know, why are they so angry? And why is it that they can’t understand. And that takes time, right? You have to know how to create a balance, right? Because you want to spend time with them. But you don’t want the time that you spend with them to always be awkward, right? So if I know I’m going to spend the afternoon with you, and if I know that the minute I walk in the door, the first thing I’m going to talk about is how they need to leave their church and join my church, that’s going to create kind of an awkward space, right? So you, you have to kind of create this balance where they know that when you’re there, you’re still present, you’re still Felix, I’m still your son, I’m still your brother. And then when the opportunities come up, when you start to see opportunities, and God’s gonna show you when those opportunities come up. That’s when you can talk about, you know, hey, you know, we’ve got this activity we’ve got, an activity that you know, that they’d enjoy, you know, something, something that’s maybe less formal, because it took almost two and a half years, I think, before, I was actually able to get my mom to come to a Bible study, which finally came, and then when she comes to visit us when we’re living in Atlanta, and even here, she joins us in the worship service. Because now we’re at a point where she respects my faith, because it’s the faith that’s raising her grandchildren. 

So she respects it. In the end, I leave up to God, because now you know, as members of the Church, our job is just to invite, right? We’re not the ones that are going to convert anybody, all we can do is introduce them. And if we introduce them to the Church, and we pray, it’s God who’s going to call them. 

Aliw: As Felix listened, there was one thing that he needed help in dealing with that frankly, is a challenge for everyone….rejection. 

Felix: My next question Robert was like, how would you still be able to talk to them, even if, when they still denied your invitations or talked down on you?

Robert: Well, when you’re inviting them to come to a Bible study or join worship service, or you know, to come and listen, and you’re noticing that that’s a point of tension, right? Because then all of a sudden, the conversation doesn’t go quite the way that you wanted it to. And you have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right? Because when you’re with them, and you want to spend time with them, be present. And, you know, provided that the gathering isn’t like a celebration or something that you know is against the doctrines, you can be there and be present, you don’t have to, to always be trying to get them to come to an activity or listen to the Bible study all the time, because that’s where a lot of the tension comes from.

The thing that really made the biggest difference was when they started to see how my life changed. Because I was a member of the Church. My outlook on life was a lot more positive, you know, it was a lot more optimistic. I, you know, didn’t cuss, I didn’t do a lot of the things that I used to do when I was younger, and they started to slowly see that change. And that’s really where I think they started to understand that, you know, being a member of the Church, even though they didn’t understand the doctrines or hear anything, yet. They knew it was good for me. It was a good influence. And it was even more so after we had our first child and my mom and my relatives saw how they were being raised in the Church. Respectful, industrious. They were, you know, always willing to help, it doesn’t have to be you always trying to, you know, I need you to come to Bible study tonight, I need you to come to Bible study. And, try to do that. So that way they can at least see that being a member of the Church was actually a good influence. And it’s affected your life in a positive way.

Felix: I remember telling my mom that every time I’m at the Church, I’m always happy. 

But when I’m at home, I’m not happy. Because I told her that at the Church, I always see love all the time. I would go to work. And then if there’s an evangelical mission or worship service, I would always go, you know, I would always, I would always come back home with a smile. But then every single day, I was in a very bad mental state because there was no love in the house, you know what I mean? So, my question is, how can you bring that love that you have at Church at your house? You know what I’m trying to say?

Robert: Yeah, you know, what, you’re already doing it, Felix. When you go home, you go home, with a smile on your face. And, you feel—if I’m guessing, you feel like, you know, when you leave the evangelical mission is that your life has purpose, and that no matter what you’re going through, you know that there’s a solution, right, you know, that God has your back, no matter what. And when you go home, you’re bringing that love and that feeling already that optimism and the positivity, what you have to try to avoid is, you know, engaging in, you know, discussions that if you know that when you start to talk about it, it starts to escalate, right, and things start to get heated, you have to try to avoid that. Because when emotions once emotions get involved, especially when it comes to religion, it’s sometimes difficult to dial it back down.

Felix: Yeah. 

Robert: And you sometimes have to remember, you know, how humble our Lord Jesus Christ was. Imagine that, right? With everything he was able to do, how humble he was.

And, you know, redirect them if you can, because you can’t forcibly change how someone feels sometimes, as much as you want to. You sometimes just have to wait and pray. Because God can do things that you and I could never imagine would have happened. Yeah. Right. You have to believe that if you pray hard enough, and you really pour your heart out in your prayers. And you show God how much you really want this, that you just continue to just, you know, be who you are.

Felix: Yeah, that’s, that’s one thing I’ve always been reminded of at the worship service is to renew our lives and to live the way He wants us to live.

Robert: Yeah, I mean, you have to really be just so, you know, so many years after my baptism, but I realized, like, how I lived my life before I was baptized, and then how God out of the millions of people chose me. 

Felix: Yeah.

Robert: Gave me this chance, right. It’s like, the ultimate job that you’ve always wanted, that you didn’t know you could interview for. And, you know, all of a sudden, here you are in the Church. And you and I recalled, you know, when we were in our early 20s, against all odds, right? Because our families weren’t supporting it. They’re not supportive of it. But yet, we’re here. And, you know, we made the choice, because it’s the right choice and we never have any regrets. Never have any doubts, and just keep living your life, the way that God means for you to live it.

Felix: Yeah, exactly. And that’s, it’s like, when I hear it’s like, it’s always refreshing, you know, I love to hear that.

Aliw: Then, Felix brings up the topic that’s been the most difficult for many new members of the Church to deal with… with their families – the annual holidays.

Felix: And when it comes to light with holidays, such as Christmas, I think it was last year, I told the one of the brethren like, Hey, is it okay if I can, night guard at the at the church because I don’t want to, be I don’t want to be at the house celebrating Christmas with my family, because I might be, I might be tempted or you know, because usually, it’s always drinking or partying to like, three in the morning, right?

I ended up going back home, but spending time alone in my room while the others were celebrating and doing things downstairs. 

Robert: I’ve been there. I’ve been there, Felix, I, you know, it’s when you’re when you’re the only member in your family, it’s hard. It is. It’s not easy. It’s a test. It’s a test of your faith because you’re surrounded by that, right?

And it’s a tough thing for them to understand. But eventually they will, that it’s got nothing to do with you not wanting to be a part of the family. But they have to respect and that’s all, you know, it’s gonna get to a point where you’re not asking to convert them, you’re not wanting them to become members necessarily, but you want them to at least respect your faith. The same way that you respect theirs. But you want them to respect your faith and respect the choices that you make as a result of it.

Felix: I’ve been through so much last year with persecution, I know, we have to face more, all of us, we all face it. You know, the person who faced it even more was our Lord Jesus Christ, you know, he, even he’s been, he’s been hated by almost the whole world. So we have to face it too. But you know…

Robert: And imagine the choices He had to make…He made some difficult choices. And the choices we make pale in comparison to that. But you know it to us our choices, and our persecutions, and our trials are just, you know, there’s something we have to deal with,

Right now is a very difficult time when you’re a new member. But just don’t give up. You know, just be patient, keep praying, and, you know, God’s gonna be the one to call them. You have to believe that. 

When you’re inviting people for missionary work, everybody has a number. And what I mean by that is that sometimes people have to be invited five times, sometimes they need to be invited three times, sometimes they have to be invited 100 times. We don’t know what that number is. The only thing that we can do is keep inviting. Because imagine if that person’s number was 100 and you stopped at 99, because you said I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to invite them anymore. But their number was 100. And you were only one number away, one invitation away for them to come and listen. 

But you know, just don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re doing, you’re doing exactly what you need to do, which is just to invite and when you invite and if they say no, what you should be feeling is good that you still had that love for them to want to invite them. It’s when you don’t want to invite them anymore and you’re like, nah, nevermind, that’s when you should start worrying.

Felix: Okay, yeah, yes. That’s what I that’s what I feel because every time I invite my dad—with my dad I either watch INC posts on the on the app or invite him to the Evangelical Mission or it can either be an excuse or he doesn’t want to but you know, like I said—

Robert: There’s so much content INC Media. I always dig through the libraries to find something that I know is going to mean something to them. 

It doesn’t always have to be about trying to convert them or trying to get them into a Bible study. You just want them to become familiar, because remember, the way that you feel that they’re treating you it’s just because they don’t know. And our job is to educate them, and to let them know what the Church is all about. 

Felix: Thank you so much, Robert, for, you know, being in this podcast with me, you know, like I say, you know, I just met you just know, I feel like, I can say if I’m in the future, I can go back and be like, Okay, now, I’m a very strong man, strong man with a very strong faith as well.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix. 

Aliw Pablo: So Felix, how does it feel to be able to hear from someone who has been in your shoes?

Felix: Makes me feel like, you know, I’m not the only one out there, you know, so I’m really happy that he shared what he’s been through. And the advice that he gave me.

Robert: 100% Felix, you’re not alone. You are not alone. There are stories like this, the stories about people like you and I, all throughout the Church, in every country. So believe me, this is not just a me problem. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw Pablo: And, Robert, if there was one piece of advice that you could say was the ultimate game changer, that you could really see the change in your family in the way they started to treat you, speak with you, when you invited them or when you even talked about religion, what would it be?

Robert:  Just one: it’s when they realized that my being a member of the Church of Christ didn’t mean that I didn’t love them anymore, that I didn’t still count them as my family. 

And it was that love that I have. That makes me want to continue trying to invite them. And I needed them to see that. It took time for them to finally realize that, you know, I’m still Robert, I still love you. You’re my mom, you’re my brothers, you’re my sisters. But this is my life in the Church, and I want you to be a part of it. And I’m not going to stop inviting you.

Aliw Pablo: Do you think it’s possible to to stay true to your spiritual identity and still be able to, you know, still maintain really strong family connections? Is it possible?

Robert: It’s, it’s possible. And it’s not something that is very easy in the beginning. But because your spiritual identity is something that when you’re a new member of the Church, you’re still trying to form, you’re still developing it, right? And your identity builds. The longer you are in the Church, the more active you are in the Church. You know, you stay active, you attend the Bible studies, you listen intently in the worship services. And you consume as much education as you can, you know, and that’s how you start to really build and reinforce that spiritual identity. But you’ve got to be able to create that balance that says But when I’m with my family, and we’re making connections—You’re not prohibited from doing that. Just because you’re a member of the Church Of Christ doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden have to cut all ties with your family. Because that’s not what God wants. Right? He wants us to be the reason that your family is attracted to the church because they say, wow, look at the difference it made.

Felix: And we still love them no matter what. My prayer is just to love more because like I said, even in the scriptures, it says, you know, even your own loved ones would even hate you. But you know, all we got to do is just love him. Pray for them. So, like you said, so you know, we’re members, and I’m still your son, I’m still your brother and will always love you no matter what.

Robert: Yes. And don’t—you know, in your mind, no matter what’s going on in the moment, just make sure that’s what’s sitting in your mind is that you know, ‘Mom, I’m talking to you, we are having a tough conversation, but I love you.’ And sometimes it’s a hard thing to say. But you know, you want them to know that that’s how you feel.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you both. Thank you both for a really enlightening conversation. And thank you for sharing your heart and the life lessons, Robert and Felix, we hope that what you heard from Robert today is going to help you in your own spiritual journey.

Felix: That’s what I’m trying to do is just be more positive. You know, just keep inviting them if you never know when God will call them to the church. So you know, it really helped me out.

Robert: It was a really, really great meeting . You know, I feel like I’m meeting myself 30 years ago, 20 years ago, maybe just 20 years ago. I don’t want to be that old.

Felix: I feel like when I’m his age, I’ll be in his shoes, giving the same advice to someone who is in my shoes, at my age.

Aliw Pablo: That’s right. And it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you both so much. Thank you so much. And we know that just from this one conversation, you’re going to help so many people who are going through the same things you’re going through Felix who may be quietly struggling, and we hope that this conversation has given them hope, has given them inspiration…to just keep loving, keep trying and to just never giving up. So thank you both so much.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Aliw, for having us.

Aliw:  Special Thanks to Felix and Robert for taking the time to share their journeys and life lessons with us. Now if you know someone who may be going through what Felix is going through, please share this episode with them to give them courage and find peace during what could be the best change in their life but also a very difficult transition in their lives.  

For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

TEACHERS AS PARENTS

Aliw Intro: Hey, it’s Aliw. This month, we’re showing our appreciation for moms…and teachers. So what better way to do that than sharing this episode from Season 1, it’s a conversation between Melissa and Arienne, two moms, who are both teachers, and are raising three children of their own. 

I remember the first time I listened to Melissa and Arienne, they talked about the challenges they had faced while teaching remotely at the height of the pandemic..while taking care of their kids at home, at the same time. It sounded like A LOT! But you know, even at that point, I could still hear how much they loved being a mom, and how much they cared for their students. And that’s pretty remarkable! So we want to say thanks to Melissa and Arienne for spending time with us, because we know how busy moms and teachers can get! And also, for opening up about the struggles they faced during one of the toughest periods of our time. Melissa and Arienne, thanks for doing what you do. 

[music comes in]

Arienne Rusgal: Remote teaching is pretty hilarious. 

Melissa Benedicto: I agree.

Arienne: The things that you say now, “Turn on your camera, right?” “Mute please.”  

Aliw Pablo: Meet Melissa and Arienne, two teachers who are also moms.

Melissa: Please don’t bring your iPad to the bathroom. Don’t share too much information when you come back from the bathroom, please.

Aliw: They both were forced to adapt to the drastic changes the pandemic brought at work and at home. Studies show that women in general have taken the hardest hit during this pandemic, many having to leave the workforce due to the overwhelming pressure of juggling it all — working and being a mom. So today, we’ll talk to Melissa each with three children of their own and how they’ve managed to thrive during a very difficult time when the lines between being a teacher and a mom at home are often blurred.

I’m Aliw Pablo. Welcome to Making Changes, a podcast about two people on the path to change but are in different stages in their journeys.

(Show Open)

On today’s episode, Melissa and Arienne open up about the challenges of wearing two hats at home during this pandemic. Melissa has three children, two teenagers and an 11-year-old while Arienne asks Melissa for advice on teaching remotely while caring for three kids under the age of 3 at home.

Melissa talks about how after 15 years of teaching, the challenges of a virtual classroom made her think about possibly changing her career but she’ll tell us what it was that made her stay. We’ll be flies on the wall as these two moms talk openly about what they learned about themselves and the changes they’ve had to make in perspective as educators and as moms. And they’ll tell us about the big part that God played in their lives during this uncertain time. Let’s listen in.

Melissa: What’s up fellow mom?

Arienne: I’m so glad to talk to you because let me tell you, it is so hard to be a mom and a teacher right now. And just being able to talk to you is just giving me already a sense of relief here.

Melissa: You know, being able to talk to adults, sometimes is relaxing and therapeutic.

Arienne: Yes. I just kind of wanted to get your thoughts and some advice on some stuff, just because, you know, especially with a pandemic, and having three kids under three and trying to teach from home and trying to teach online while they’re crying downstairs and just trying to do it all. It just hasn’t been easy. Like, I just feel like I can’t do it all. I don’t know how to be that super mom. I mean, what do you do?

Melissa: Other than cry in the corner on a daily basis. I kid, but just realizing that you… Just knowing that you can’t do it all, you know.  Just unloading and allowing other people to help you. It took a long time for me to like, not need people. And I’m not saying I don’t need people right now.  But that’s what family is for.  Just know that it doesn’t fall on you. And we share the load. What grades do you teach again, Arienne?

Arienne: I teach a four or five combo. but it’s pretty much from 8:00 to 12:30 in the morning. But I mean, trying to teach a combo in the classroom is already tough, let alone a combo on the screen. So there’s that added pressure too.  And what do you teach again, Melissa?

Melissa: I teach Special Ed. And it’s from kindergarten all the way through eighth grade. So multiple combo classes. A ton of different personalities and perspectives from the spectrum. So, it’s difficult to do everything online, which is why I was grateful when we opened up our school. And we started with our Special Ed students, because they were the most in need of in-person support.

Arienne: Right? You can’t give that same kind of… I don’t know, you just can’t really give that same kind of love and attention when they’re tiles on your monitor.

Melissa: Yes, especially when you’re meeting them for the first time Arienne these are kiddos you saw, the first day of your teaching online so…

Arienne: What was this distance? like physical distance and just emotional distance? I know you’re back in person but what was the hardest part for you teaching remotely?

Melissa:  Chasing my students, because they come from low socio-economic backgrounds. And so if they’re not showing up on zoom, I’m finding ways to have to reach out…which is why having them in person physically having the bus go pick them up, and bringing them to school that was the connection that my students had. And so when that started, I was obviously back in person, but my own children were virtual, still. So that created a challenge, because, you know, I’m teaching in my classroom, and then I leave my kids behind. Yeah, and they’re older, they’re older. But, you know, trusting that they’re going to be okay, that you did what you needed to do to make sure that they were provided for that was also something that was a struggle.

Arienne: My room, our bedroom has kind of become my classroom. There are some perks right? I get to make them breakfast, I get to be with them at breakfast, and  I can take my breaks and go downstairs and see them and just check to see how they’re doing. If, you know, worst case scenario, if you know everyone’s crazy and everyone’s crying, then I can bring someone into the bedroom and throw on, you know, some some movie and they can just sit and chill out and and watch while I’m teaching but,… you know, trying to be a mommy and teacher at the legit exact same time, it’s so hard. You know that you are these things like 24-7 no matter what, but when they’re mushed together, literally in the exact same room, it’s so hard to differentiate between the two. But remote teaching is pretty hilarious.

Melissa:  I agree.

Arienne: The things that you have to say now, that you never would have said in the classroom? “Turn on your camera, right?” “Mute, please.” Like what else do you do? What else have you said?

Melissa:  I’ve said, “please don’t bring your iPad to the bathroom. And if you do, turn off your camera and mute,” you know.  “Don’t share too much information when you come back from the bathroom, please.”

Arienne: You know, there is so much to do but I got to be IT. But with the virtual class, you’re IT all day, every day. And you’re like, “I can’t hear you. I can’t hear you.”  And you’re telling him, go, “Go to the 3 dots at the bottom, press that says “yes” everyday. But I think you know, one of the things that kind of kept me going during a class meeting, there was one kid who was saying,  “I appreciate you because you have a ton of kids, but you still teach us.” It really does warm my heart and it helps me feel a lot better, that even though I’m teaching in front of a screen, that they could still feel that I care. 

Melissa: Virtual for me was just the most difficult. As it progressed, it just was so depressing. Because I, you know, we didn’t do student teaching through zoom, and this is not what I signed up for you know, I said that a lot. And as much as… give me the most difficult student and the most difficult class any day over, over virtual. And so it was during this pandemic that I really after, like 15 years of teaching, I thought, maybe I should do something else. Maybe I should change careers, because this is not what I trained for. And it was one of the realizations, like you said, those comments that our students say that all they need is connection. If that’s the only connection I have with my students, then I’ll do that, even though it’s difficult, but I have thought about changing careers. 

Arienne: And I think that’s, the harder part too, is because the lines are so blurred. Right now, I can’t. I don’t have a schedule. Whatever happens with the kids, like, if someone’s in a bad mood, like there goes that schedule. But you know, 1, 2, 3 am is kind of the time that I’ve been finding to lesson plan, to get my slides ready for the day after because now we can’t teach without slides, right? How did you survive? I know you were in the classroom when your kids were young? How do you get from being a mom of babies, and still be the kind of teacher that you expect yourself to be? How do you do both? 

Melissa:  Juggle. Yeah, it was, you know, when you’re in it, I’m sure 10 years from now, you’ll be like, how did I do that? Because I’m at that point because I’m like, Oh, I hear Arianne. Wow, I was…I was that. How did I do it? That’s what I’m thinking of when you’re talking about these things. Because it is, you’re in the moment. You do what you need to do, right?  Quick story about when I first started going back to the classroom, and my kids are big. They are…. I have a 11-year old, a 12-year old, and sophomore in high school. So she’s 15. One day, I came home, and they looked like someone had been crying, right? And then I knew something had happened but they didn’t want to tell me. And so finally, I talked to my oldest and I was like, why are you guys so quiet? Why are you not telling me something? And I kid you not. It took all of me not to just feel like the worst mom in the world. But she was like, you come home so tired. We don’t want to bother you with this extra thing. And I’m like, but It’s okay. And I took a step back. And I was like, I need to watch my face, what  I say.  You know what made me realize  — wow, I’ve got great kids that know, right, that they can kind of empathize and try not to become a bother even though I need them to tell me these things. But I’m like, wow, you know, this, all this like teaching, right? It shows, it does show up.  And like when they become older, and they, you know, they’re out of diapers, and you’re finally done with breastfeeding your last one, you’ll take a step back and be like, wow, these are awesome kids.

Arienne: As hard as it is, like, I would not trade these years. For, anything, you know. I remember, like, talking with my husband, and you know, we were wondering, like, what are we going to do about childcare? Like, if both of us have to work, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? And then, boom, the pandemic hit. Everyone had to work from home. And there was like, this answer, right? I mean, it’s so… it’s such a hard time to live in. But it’s, I don’t know, I feel like it’s kind of brought a lot of families closer. 

Melissa:  Yeah. You hit it on the nail– families closer because you wouldn’t have thought this was the solution to your no childcare issue but this has brought your family closer. I am virtual all day on Wednesdays. And my son cooks for us. Wednesdays, yeah. We don’t ask. He just figures out what, you know what’s to be made and he cooks for his siblings and me because …

Arienne: I cannot wait for that. But how are you able to hold on to your offices [in the Church]  and still, have your kids and teach and do the whole thing?

Melissa:  Well, it’s, it always is, like what you put first. And you know, what I realized, as my kids are now like, in their teenage years, it’s what they see that counts, right? So I want them to grow up knowing that wholeheartedly, I perform my duty as choir member, because I love it. It’s something we took oath for. Right? We took an oath for and know that we are going to fulfill it wholeheartedly and them seeing that, even though they see that I’m tired, right, even though they see that I come home, allows them to realize that they can do the same thing. And so that pushes me not only for the love of my duty, but for the love of my children as well, because I want them to continue to be officers as well. Not because mom is pushing them. But because they love it too.

Arienne: Performing is almost like a form of self care, I think. And listening to you about what our kids see. Like I know our kids are pretty young to the point that they will have pretty few memories of right now. But I do remember to like my mom when she had my little brother she went back to the choir right? Right away. And so it was no question in my mind, about coming back to the choir after having our oldest, after having our second, I think I went back two weeks, two weeks after having my first one because we were prepping for a special worship service. And I had to make sure that the choir was ready. So my mom being a choir leader, too, like she totally understood, so she would take him and then we would go to choir practice. And then it was two months after my second one, and even then I remember like, just itching, itching, to go back. But a lot of it really is self care and like, I feel renewed and I feel strengthened and everything when I get to go and like teach the choir and listen to the hymns and all of that kind of stuff. I almost feel like when I get to go to choir practice, when I get to serve God on my own without any interruption, that I come back a better mom. Or I hope I come back a better mom.  You know,  it’s so much better than like, going to go get your pedicure and coming back, right. I mean, that feels good already, like getting your hair, your nails done and coming back home to the kids. But yeah, there’s like no other feeling. Maybe it’s just because I feel like a load is lifted. So that when you come back home to the kiddos, they need you to be strong. You’ve been strengthened, I guess.

Melissa:  I completely understand. That’s definitely one of the reasons why I continue. And I know that now as you know, mother of teenage children is that they, they see mom, and you know, I now perform with my eldest daughter in the adult choir who loves it, and who cannot wait to come back to the chapel, and put on her choir robe and sing in the choir loft. And I know that that’s not something that I pushed for her to do. It’s the love that she has for it. And so, you know, it’s therapeutic but also so much blessings. 

Arienne: That’s what I want from my kids too like, I want them to see us performing, you know, day in and day out and realizing that the reason we have what we have is because we dedicate so much time to God and our duties. 

Melissa:  Yes, so Arienne what did you learn the most about yourself as a mom through all this through all this crazy pandemic?  

Arienne: The biggest thing that I learned is you can’t do it all. And it’s okay. That I have to allow myself some grace. I know that like you know, postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety is real because I feel like I live it, especially right now after having the third one, I didn’t really feel it too much before. But … and it’s been hard, it’s been a challenge to get out of that mental state of “I’m not doing enough.” But you know, hearing you, talking with friends, praying and praying and praying and praying is little by little reminding me, you know, that you don’t have to do it all. What’s the biggest change that you had to make during this time?

Melissa:  I’d have to say I know that God is always with my family, and blessed my family. But during this pandemic, I didn’t know how much it would take out of my mental capacity. Because I was like, at a point when I thought I can’t, I can’t do this. I can’t handle it. I’m right here. He found a way to like, take away the load somehow. And allow me to just…okay, I think I can do this. As moms we are pretty resilient. We say this about students all the time. Oh, you know, they’ll bounce back. They’re resilient. But as educators, as moms, we’re resilient ourselves. And I know this because of this pandemic. I’ve done things that I didn’t think I could do. So that’s that’s the biggest, biggest change. 

Arienne: Thank you so much for your advice. And for just, you know, talking me through I think I’ve had a lot of “aha” from this conversation. 

Melissa:  Me too. It’s always great to grow together. 

Arienne: Yes. 

Melissa:  Through conversation. So thanks. thank you so much.

Aliw:  Hey, moms, Melissa, Arienne.. Thanks so much, you guys. Thank you so much for doing this. And, you know, first, I have to say I, there are frontline workers and there are  essential workers. And teachers — We don’t give you guys enough credit. You really are in the front lines. And you really are essential, like  on so many levels. And you’re right, I think, I forgot which one of you said it that you go from one job to the other. Do you feel like you’re mothering consistently because you’re also mothering other people’s children when you’re at work? What do you think, Melissa?

Melissa:  Yes, I agree that the mothering has no boundaries. So I cross the threshold of my classroom, I’m mothering. I cross the threshold of like, my home, I’m a mother. So, you’re constantly teaching and showing and caring for and whether it’s my own children, or others, it’s what we were put here to do. It’s been a challenge this pandemic, however, God has shown us that we are resilient.

Aliw: Resilient, indeed.  Arianne, you mentioned that once you became a mom and like you said it was prayers and prayers upon prayers answered and this is really what you’ve always wanted. Do you see yourself being able to have enough energy to keep teaching in the future like with because you’re really in the thick of it all? 

Arienne: I do wonder that all the time, whether I’m going to have enough energy, I mean, my own three are exhausting to say the least. They are exhausting already, let alone having to go in with a class of 33, another class of 33. I love kids and I knew I wanted to be a teacher since I was 14. Just like being in the choir is part of my identity. I feel like teaching is part of my identity. And I want my kids no matter what they decide to do in life, well, most things anyway,  I want them to follow their passions as well so that when they are older, they would love whatever it is that God gifts them with. And I feel that if I stopped teaching, then I would show them that it’s kind of okay to give up your passion, too. And I want to be that role model for my own kiddos that no matter how hard it is to do what you love, you should still do what you love because God gave you those gifts of whatever it is — I guess, in this case of teaching, of showing, of molding and that kind of deal —  for a reason. 

Aliw: No matter how tiring it is and no matter how tired you are, right, as moms, what is the difference when you do something you love?

Arienne: I think there’s a huge difference between doing something that you love versus doing something just for the sake of a paycheck. But we go a little bit above and beyond when you love something. I mean, it’s the same thing with the Church, right? We’re there all hours of the day or all hours of the night and you come home and you’re exhausted but feel full, right? You feel satisfied and uplifted because you are doing something that you love.

Aliw: Your students are so blessed to have you both as teachers, because just listening to you both we can tell just how much you truly love what you do as teachers, but also how much  you really do care for your students. And of course, your babies at home. So thank you guys, thank you so much. And I hope you get some sleep, Arianne. And, Melissa, I hope you get through the teenage years. And you will. And thank you so much for sharing your stories and your heart with us. 

Arienne & Melissa: Thank You.

Aliw: Thanks Arianne and Melissa. Now, if you found value in what you heard today, share it with a friend, a fellow mom or a teacher that you know could probably use this right now.  Stay up to date with new episodes of Making Changes with these different platforms  — Apple, Google podcasts, or subscribe to the INC Media podcasts on Spotify or you can download the INC Media app.  You can see the faces behind the voices by following our Making Changes podcast Instagram account.  Thanks for listening to Making Changes and may your change uplift you!

Cómo mantenerse positivo frente a la negatividad hoy

Hermano Juan Fisher: Hola queridos amigos, están viendo El Mensaje.

[gráfico en pantalla]

Hno. Juan Fisher

Ministro de Evangelio

 El año 2020 está siendo debatido por expertos en varios campos si este fue el peor año debido a la avalancha de calamidades, dificultades, disturbios civiles, discordias entre países y diversos problemas. También son pesimistas sobre lo que sucederá a continuación, ya que consideran el efecto duradero que la pandemia puede causar en el futuro, lo que indica que nos enfrentaremos a días más oscuros por delante. Tal pesimismo sobre el futuro alimenta el miedo y la ansiedad entre muchas personas.Ahora, dos años después, todavía nos rodea una tormenta de pesimismo, pero ¿debemos ser pesimistas? No, hermanos. ¡Por supuesto que no!

¿Cuál es la explicación bíblica de todos estos eventos catastróficos que están sucediendo alrededor del mundo? En Isaías 24:5-6, 3-4 (Dios Habla Hoy) también:

La tierra ha sido profanada por sus habitantes, porque han dejado de cumplir las leyes, han desobedecido los mandatos, han violado la alianza eterna. Por eso, una maldición ha acabado con la tierra, y sus habitantes sufren el castigo. Por eso, los habitantes de la tierra han disminuido, y queda poca gente. La tierra será totalmente arrasada, totalmente saqueada. Porque esto es lo que ha dicho el Señor. La tierra se seca y se marchita, el mundo entero se reseca, se marchita, y el cielo y la tierra se llenan de tristeza.

Isaías 24:5-6, 3-4 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: El Señor Dios ha dicho que la tierra sufrirá y se debilitará, se marchitará y quedará arrasada y saqueada. ¿No es cierto que esto es lo que podemos observar? ¿Queridos amigos, cuál es la razón por la que esto será experimentado por el mundo? “La tierra ha sido profanada por sus habitantes.” Lo que es más aterrador es que la condición que experimentó el mundo en el año pasado puede ser un presagio de cosas peores por venir. Pero, ¿hay todavía esperanza para el hombre de no perderse para siempre?  Hay esperanza, queridos amigos. El Señor Dios mismo ha dicho a los hombres qué deben hacer para que Él regrese a ellos y mejore sus vidas. En Malaquías 3:7 (Dios Habla Hoy), escuchen por favor:

Ustedes se han apartado de mis preceptos, como se apartaron sus antepasados, y no han querido obedecerlos. Yo, el Señor todopoderoso, les digo: ¡Vuélvanse a mí, y yo me volveré a ustedes! Pero ustedes dicen: “¿Por qué hemos de volvernos a ti?”

Malaquías 3:7 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: El Señor Dios tiene una invitación para todas las personas. Se fijaron Él dijo: “Vuélvanse a mí.” Aunque la gente se ha burlado de Sus leyes y no las ha guardado, Él les da esta ventana de oportunidad para que regresen a Él y Su promesa también es cierta: “Me volveré a ustedes.”

¿Cómo uno podrá volver al Señor Dios para que Dios también vuelva a Él? Uno debe cumplir el plan de Dios que llevará al hombre a la prosperidad y no al desastre. Leamos Jeremías 29:11 (Dios Habla Hoy), escuchen por favor:

Yo sé los planes que tengo para ustedes, planes para su bienestar y no para su mal, a fin de darles un futuro lleno de esperanza. Yo, el Señor, lo afirmo.

Jeremías 29:11 Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan: Los planes del Señor Dios son para el bien del hombre y no para el mal, planes para su bienestar, paz, esperanza y un futuro brillante. Por lo tanto, cuando se trata de la forma de vida de uno, especialmente en sus servicios que rendimos al Señor Dios, debe estar de acuerdo con Su plan. Aunque puedan afirmar que nunca dejaron al Señor Dios, sostienen las buenas obras y el servicio a Él, si no está de acuerdo con el plan de Dios, no los llevará a un futuro brillante sino al desastre y la destrucción. Si uno puede ser capaz de cumplir el plan de Dios, no hay ninguna razón para que uno sea pesimista. Uno tendrá la esperanza por las cosas buenas que el Señor Dios tiene reservadas para él. ¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios que debe cumplir, y eso es para recibir un futuro próspero y bendito? Eso es lo que vamos a discutir después de este breve descanso.

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El justo será siempre recordado;  ciertamente nunca fracasará.

Salmos 112:6 NVI

Hno. Juan: Hola queridos amigos, gracias por acompañarnos aquí en este programa, El Mensaje. La avalancha de desastres en 2020 hizo que la gente fuera pesimista sobre lo que sucederá en el futuro. En la primera parte de nuestro estudio aprendimos que, aunque estamos rodeados de terribles eventos que pueden causar gran temor sobre lo que está por venir, todavía hay esperanza de un futuro brillante. Hay una razón para que uno sea optimista en medio de la negatividad. ¿Cómo se puede lograr eso? Uno debe volver al Señor Dios a través de cumplir el plan de Dios que nos llevará a Su futuro brillante prometido.

De la misma manera que se está cumpliendo Su profecía de que este mundo solo empeorará y terminará en ruina, también Su promesa de un futuro bendito para aquellos que cumplan Su buen plan. 

¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios que debe cumplirse para recibir un futuro próspero y bendito? Efesios 1:9 (New International Reader’s Version traducido al español), escuchen por favor:

nos mostró el misterio de su plan. Estaba de acuerdo con lo que él quería hacer. Era lo que había planeado a través de Cristo.

Efesios 1:9 New International Reader’s Version (traducido al español)

Hno. Juan: El Apóstol Pablo aclaró que el Señor Dios es quien tiene un plan. Esto fue planeado por Él a través del Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cuál es el plan del Señor Dios a través de nuestro Señor Jesucristo? Leamos el siguiente versículo, Efesios 1:10 (La Biblia de Las Américas), así nos enseña las Sagradas Escrituras:

con miras a una buena administración en el cumplimiento de los tiempos, es decir, de reunir todas las cosas en Cristo, tanto las que están en los cielos, como las que están en la tierra. En él

Efesios 1:10 La Biblia de Las Américas

Por lo tanto, el plan de Dios es que todos sean reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cómo se reunirán las personas en Cristo? Aquí en 1 Corintios 12:27, 12  (Weymouth New Testament traducido al español) también:

En cuanto a vosotros, sois el cuerpo de Cristo, e individualmente sois miembros de él;

Porque así como el cuerpo humano es uno y tiene muchas partes, y todas sus partes, por muchas que sean, constituyen un solo cuerpo; así es con la iglesia de Cristo.

1 Corintios 12:27, 12 Weymouth New Testament (traducido al español)

El Apóstol Pablo aquí se dirige a los verdaderos cristianos de Corinto, aquellos que son capaces de cumplir el plan de Dios de que todos sean reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo. ¿Cómo pudieron ser reunidos en el Señor Jesucristo? Él dijo: “En cuanto a vosotros, sois el cuerpo de Cristo, e individualmente sois miembros de él.”

Por lo tanto, las personas deben ser miembros del cuerpo de Cristo. ¿Qué enseñó el Apóstol Pablo acerca del cuerpo de Cristo? “Porque así como el cuerpo humano es uno y tiene muchas partes, y todas sus partes, por muchas que sean, constituyen un solo cuerpo.” Aunque hay muchos miembros, se los considera como un solo cuerpo: el cuerpo de Cristo. ¿Cuál es el nombre del cuerpo de Cristo? Él dijo: “Así es con la Iglesia de Cristo.”

El amor de Dios por las personas y Su deseo de que las personas tengan un futuro brillante es tan grande, queridos amigos. No hay discriminación aquí. Todos tienen la oportunidad de tener un futuro brillante, la única condición es cumplir el plan de Dios: que las personas se conviertan en miembros de la Iglesia De Cristo. 

Para que este plan se lleve a cabo, el Señor Jesucristo enfatizó la importancia de ser uno con Él en virtud de convertirse en miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo. Esto es lo que dijo en Juan 10:7, 9 (Revised English Bible traducido al español). Escuchemos, por favor:

Entonces Jesús habló de nuevo: “En toda verdad os digo: Yo soy la puerta de las ovejas.”…Yo soy la puerta; cualquiera que entre al rebaño por mí, será salvo…

Juan 10:7, 9 Revised English Bible traducido al español

Es un requisito que la gente debe entrar al rebaño o redil a través del Señor Jesucristo como la puerta. ¿Cuál es la gran bendición en cumplir este mando del Señor? La salvación prometida. ¿Cuál es el rebaño donde la gente debe entrar a través de Cristo como la puerta? Leamos en Hechos 20:28 (Traducción de Lamsa):

Por tanto, tengan cuidado de ustedes mismos, y de todo el rebaño sobre el cual los ha puesto el espíritu santo como supervisores para apacentar la iglesia de Cristo, la cual Él compró con su sangre.

Hechos 20:28 Traducción de George Lamsa

Hno. Juan: La membresía en la Iglesia De Cristo, entonces, es el primer paso para satisfacer la intención del Señor Dios, porque la mera membresía no es suficiente. Los miembros son instruidos a cumplir algo para que el Señor Dios permanezca en ellos. 1 Pedro 1:15 (Dios Habla Hoy); escuchen, por favor:

Al contrario, vivan de una manera completamente santa, porque Dios, que los llamó, es santo;

1 Pedro 1:15

Dios Habla Hoy

Hno. Juan:  Por lo tanto, a los miembros de la Iglesia De Cristo se les manda que en su conducta diaria y forma de vida, mantengan la santidad. El Señor Dios espera que no retrocedan ni se ajusten a los bajos deseos de la gente de este mundo. Ninguna cosa material, prestigio, fama y semejante en este mundo podrá igualar la salvación prometida. Entonces, aunque los estándares morales de este mundo maligno  se están deteriorando, tanto más es obligatorio que vivamos en rectitud porque esto nos llevará a la salvación. Aunque todavía estemos viviendo en este mundo problemático y lleno de caos y dificultades, el Señor Dios hizo una promesa a Su pueblo para que no teman ni sean pesimistas. Job 11:14-18 (La Biblia De Las Américas) expresa este deseo del Señor Dios:

si en tu mano hay iniquidad y la alejas de ti y no permites que la maldad more en tus tiendas, entonces, ciertamente levantarás tu rostro sin mancha, estarás firme y no temerás. Porque olvidarás tu aflicción, como aguas que han pasado la recordarás. Tu vida será más radiante que el mediodía, y hasta la oscuridad será como la mañana. Entonces confiarás, porque hay esperanza, mirarás alrededor y te acostarás seguro.

Job 11:14-18 La Biblia De Las Américas

Hno. Juan: Aquellos que apartan el mal y la iniquidad de su hogar, pueden caminar firmemente hacia el Señor Dios sin temor. Ellos olvidarán su miseria. Todo quedará en el pasado. Estarán seguros y se sentirán confiados porque hay esperanza de que el Señor Dios bendecirá su existencia diaria en este mundo. 

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Narradora:  Las luchas diarias en Haití han impactado un área de mayor preocupación: la educación de los niños. Los informes muestran que 

“Más de la mitad del país vive con menos de $2 al día, por lo que es muy difícil para las familias ahorrar suficiente dinero para enviar a sus hijos a la escuela.”

Narradora: Pero para el fundador de una escuela, su nueva esperanza lo inspiraría a compartirla con las familias de su aldea y su escuela. Solo uno de los numerosos lugares a lo largo de Haití que forma parte del crecimiento de algo mayor en sus vidas.

Exempt Jean Charles: Hay muchos padres que tienen dificultades de pagar para sus hijos, por eso no todos pueden pagar para la escuela primaria o una educación formal a una edad temprana.

Narradora: Exempt Jean Charles, anteriormente un predicador protestante en la Escuela Bautista Bethesda. La escuela que fundó para familias con niños en el remoto pueblo de montaña de Découvert. Esto se hizo para ayudar a proporcionar la educación que tanto necesitan las familias que sufren debido a las dificultades económicas que continúan en Haití.

Exempt: (en criollo) La escuela actualmente tiene 155 alumnos. La colegiatura para que ellos vayan a la escuela es 350 gourdes haitianos [equivalente a $3.50 USD].

Narradora: Continuando con las luchas que enfrentaba su escuela, conocería a otro maestro llamado Dieunel Joseph. Y en su conversación sobre educación, surgió otro tema que cambiaría la creencia de Exempt sobre la fe que defendía como protestante.

Exempt: Aprendí acerca de la Iglesia De Cristo del Hermano Dieunel Joseph. Lo que me hizo ser miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo es escuchar todas las enseñanzas fundamentales que se sostienen en la Iglesia. Anteriormente, me enseñaron muchas cosas en mi antigua religión. 

Pero luego, descubrí que fue un error seguir esas cosas. Entonces decidí continuar y ahora 

Soy un miembro de la Iglesia De Cristo.

Narradora: Esa decisión llevó a que más personas en Découvert aprendieran el verdadero evangelio y agregaran una nueva congregación local. Pero incluso mientras se desempeñaba como diácono principal y cambiaba el nombre de su escuela para reflejar su nueva fe, las dificultades para la educación de sus alumnos aún persistían. Hasta que llegó oportunamente la ayuda a través del proyecto Cuidado de la Humanidad que encabezada por la Fundación Félix Y. Manalo: una donación que dará a todos sus alumnos un año de escolaridad sin costo de matrícula.  

Tereze Doizon: (en criollo)Damos las gracias por la ayuda que recibimos porque nos ayudará mucho. Antes no podíamos hacer uniformes para nuestros hijos y pagar su educación. Ahora con la ayuda que recibimos de la Iglesia, nuestros niños ahora podrán asistir a clases.

Hermano Camy Agustin: Cuando ayudamos a nuestros prójimos, a nuestros compatriotas, nos ayuda a difundir más la buena noticia. 

Narradora: Y este fue solo uno de los muchos eventos que la Iglesia De Cristo realizó para atender a las necesidades de algunas de las comunidades de Haití.  Durante un período de 5 días, los ministros del evangelio viajaron a diferentes lugares para proporcionar paquetes de alimentos a través de los eventos de Cuidado de la Humanidad, al mismo tiempo que brindaban la oportunidad de compartir el verdadero evangelio a través de las misiones evangélicas dirigidas por el Ministro Supervisor, el Hermano Esteban Inocencio. Jr. en el Distrito Eclesiástico del Caribe, no sólo proveyendo para las necesidades materiales de la gente, sino más importante, sus necesidades espirituales.

Hermano Christian De Leon: (in inglés) Es la voluntad de Dios que Él quiere que todas las personas se salven, pero deben llegar al conocimiento de la verdad. Seguimos uniéndonos con nuestro Ministro Ejecutivo para enseñar las palabras de Dios en todos los lugares, en todo el mundo, particularmente aquí en el Distrito o en el Caribe.

Narradora: Con muchos llegando a conocer y aceptar la verdadera fe, también se llevaron a cabo bautismos en lugares como Kachon, Découvert y Petit-Goave. Ese crecimiento resultó en el establecimiento de más grupos de servicio de adoración en Les Palms y Kachon, atendiendo las necesidades espirituales de la creciente familia de la Iglesia De Cristo en Haití.

Hermano Esteban Inocencio: (en inglés) El crecimiento de la Iglesia es imparable. Ha sido profetizado en la Biblia que cuando Dios obra, nadie puede detener esta obra. Y esto es ciertamente una clara manifestación de la obra de Dios. Estamos en las mismas montañas de Haití. 

Narradora: Y con el crecimiento de la verdadera fe, más y más personas en Haití tienen la oportunidad de recibir la mayor ayuda que puedan tener en sus vidas.

Hno. Esteban: (en inglés) Favorece aún más, el crecimiento de la Iglesia, sabiendo la gente lo importante que es la Iglesia De Cristo para el logro de la salvación porque esa es la ayuda más grande a la humanidad que jamás podemos ofrecer a la humanidad.

Exempt: Todas las personas están felices y yo también estoy muy feliz porque la Iglesia De Cristo nos está predicando el evangelio y está ayudando a la comunidad a crecer.

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Hno. Juan: Esto es lo que también queremos que experimenten, especialmente en estos tiempos difíciles y complicados. Ojalá que puedan unirse con nosotros en la Iglesia De Cristo para tener la esperanza en el futuro bendito prometido por el Señor Dios, no solo en esta vida, y muy especialmente, en recibir la salvación y la vida eterna. Queridos amigos, continuamos extendiéndoles nuestra invitación para que continúen escuchando las enseñanzas que sostiene en la Iglesia De Cristo. Pueden visitar nuestros sitios web en incmedia.org/espanol. Si tienen preguntas, escríbenos o visiten una congregación cerca de ustedes para conocer más sobre la Iglesia De Cristo. Soy el Hermano Juan Fisher. Gracias por estar con nosotros en este episodio de El Mensaje.

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Hablen con un Ministro del Evangelio hoy

incmedia.org/estudia-con-nosotros

ENGLISH

Brother Juan: Hello dear friends, you are watching El Mensaje. The year 2020 is being debated by experts in various fields on whether this was the worst year due to the onslaught of calamities, hardship, civil unrest, disputes between countries and various troubles. They are also pessimistic on what will happen next, for they consider the long-lasting effect that the pandemic may cause in the future, indicating that we will face darker days ahead. Such pessimism about the future fuels the fear and anxiety among many people. Now, two years later, there is still a storm of pessimism surrounding us, but should we be pessimistic? No, brethren, of course not! What is the biblical explanation for all these cataclysmic events happening all over the world? In Isaiah 24:5-6, also 3-4 (Good News Bible):

The people have defiled the earth by breaking God’s laws and by violating the covenant he made to last forever. So God has pronounced a curse on the earth. Its people are paying for what they have done. Fewer and fewer remain alive.  The earth will lie shattered and ruined. The LORD has spoken and it will be done. The earth dries up and withers; the whole world grows weak; both earth and sky decay. 

Isaiah 24:5-6, 3-4 Good News Bible

The Lord God has spoken that the earth will suffer and will grow weak, decay and lie shattered and ruined. Isn’t it true that this is what we can observe? Dear friends, what is the reason this will be experienced by the world? “The people have defiled the earth by breaking God’s laws.” What is more frightening is that the condition that the world experienced last year may be a harbinger of worse things to come. But is there still hope for man for him not to be forever lost? There is hope, dear friends. The Lord God Himself has told men what to do so that He will return to them and make their lives better: In Malachi 3:7 (Amplified Bible), please listen:

Even from the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you, says the Lord of hosts. But you say, How shall we return?

Malachi 3:7 Amplified Bible

God has an invitation for all people. Notice He said, “Return to me.” Though people have scorned His laws and have not kept them, He gives this window of opportunity for them to return to Him and His promise is also certain: “I will return” to you. How will one be able to return to God so that God will also return to Him? One must fulfill God’s plan that will bring man to prosperity and not disaster. Let us read Jeremiah 29:11 (Good News Bible), please listen:

 I alone know the plans I have for you, plans to bring you prosperity and not disaster, plans to bring about the future you hope for.

Jeremiah 29:11 Good News Bible

Hno. Juan: The Lord God’s plans are for man’s good and not evil—plans for his welfare, peace, hope, and bright future. Hence, when it comes to one’s way of living, especially in their services rendered to God, it should be in accordance with His plan. Even though they may claim that they never left God, they uphold good works and service to Him, if it is not in accordance with God’s plan, it will not bring them to a bright future but to disaster and destruction. If one will be able to fulfill the Lord God’s plan, there is no reason for one to be pessimistic. One will be hopeful for the good things that God has in store for him. What is the Lord God’s plan that must be fulfilled to receive a prosperous blessed future? That is what we are going to discuss after this short break.

BREAK  

Verse Graphic (Psalm 112:6)

Surely the righteous will never be shaken; they will be remembered forever.

Hno. Juan: Hello dear friends, thank you for staying with us here in this program, El Mensaje. The onslaught of disasters in 2020 caused people to be pessimistic on what will happen next. In the first part of our study we have learned that, although we are surrounded by terrible events that may cause great fear of what is yet to come, there is still hope of a bright future. There is a reason for one to be optimistic in the midst of negativity. How can one attain that? One must return to the Lord God by fulfilling God’s plan that will lead us to His promised bright future. Like how His prophecy that this world will only get worse and will end up in ruin is being fulfilled, the same is His promise of a blessed future to those who will fulfill His good plan. What is the Lord God’s plan that must be fulfilled to receive a prosperous blessed future? Ephesians 1:9 (New International Reader’s Version), please listen:

he showed us the mystery of his plan. It was in keeping with what he wanted to do. It was what he had planned through Christ.

Ephesians 1:9 New International Reader’s Version

Hno. Juan: Apostle Paul clarified that the Lord God is who has a plan. This was planned by Him through the Lord Jesus Christ.  What is the Lord God’s plan through our Lord Jesus Christ? Let us read the next verse, Ephesians 1:10 (New King James Version), the Holy Scriptures teach us:

that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

Ephesians 1:10 New King James Version

Hno. Juan: Hence, God’s plan is that all be gathered in the Lord Jesus Christ. How will people be gathered in Christ? Here in 1 Corinthians 12:27, 12 (Weymouth New Testament):

As for you, you are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it; For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all its parts, many as they are, constitute but one body; so it is with the church of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27, 12 Weymouth New Testament

Hno. Juan: Apostle Paul is speaking here to the true Christians in Corinth, those who were able to fulfill God’s plan that all should be gathered in Christ. How were they able to be gathered in Christ? He said: “As for you, you are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it.”

Hence, people should be members of the body of Christ. What did Apostle Paul teach concerning the body of Christ? “For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all its parts, many as they are, constitute but one body.” Though there are many members, they are considered as one body only—the body of Christ. What is the name of the body of Christ? He said: “So it is with the Church of Christ.” God’s love for people and His desire for people to have a bright future is so great, dear friends. There is no discrimination. Everyone has the opportunity to have a bright future, the only condition is to fulfill God’s plan—for people to become members of the Church Of Christ. 

For this plan to be brought to fruition, the Lord Jesus Christ emphasized the importance of being one with Him by virtue of becoming a member in the Church Of Christ. This is what He said in John 10:7, 9 (Revised English Bible):

So Jesus spoke again: “In very truth I tell you, I am the door of the sheepfold. … I am the door; anyone who comes into the fold through me will be safe. …

John 10:7, 9 Revised English Bible

Hno. Juan: It is a requirement that people should enter the sheepfold or flock through Christ as the door. What is the great blessing in fulfilling this command of the Lord? Salvation. What is the flock where people should enter through Christ as the door? Let us read Acts 20:28 (George Lamsa Translation):

Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood.

Acts 20:28 George Lamsa Translation

Hno. Juan: Membership in the Church Of Christ, then, is the first step in satisfying God’s intention–for mere membership is not enough. The members are instructed to fulfill something for the Lord God to remain in them. 1 Peter 1:15  (Good News Bible):

Instead, be holy in all that you do, just as God who called you is holy.

1 Peter 1:15  Good News Bible

Hence, members of the Church Of Christ are commanded that in their everyday conduct and manner of living, they will uphold holiness. God expects them not to slip back nor conform to the base desires of people of this world. No material thing, prestige, fame and the like in this world will be able to equal the promised salvation. So even though the moral standards of this evil world are deteriorating, all the more it is incumbent that we live righteously for this will bring us to salvation.

Though we may still be sojourning this troublesome world full of chaos, difficulties, The Lord God made a promise to His people for them not to fear or be pessimistic. Job 11:14-18 (New King James Version) expresses this desire of our Lord God:

If iniquity were in your hand, and you put it far away, And would not let wickedness dwell in your tents; Then surely you could lift up your face without spot; Yes, you could be steadfast, and not fear; Because you would forget your misery, And remember it as waters that have passed away,  And your life would be brighter than noonday. Though you were dark, you would be like the morning. And you would be secure, because there is hope; Yes, you would dig around you, and take your rest in safety.

Job 11:14-18 New King James Version

Hno. Juan: Those who put away evil and wrong from their home, can walk steadily forward to God without fear. They shall forget their misery. It will all be in the past. They shall be secure and feel confident because there is hope that God will bless their everyday existence in this world.

Narrator: The daily struggles in Haiti have impacted one major area of concern, education for children. Reports show that “more than half of the country lives on less than $2 a day, so it’s very difficult for families to save enough money to send their children to school.” But for one school founder, his newfound hope would inspire him to share it with families in his village and his school.  Just one of the numerous places throughout Haiti being part of the growth of something greater in their lives.

Exempt Jean Charles: (in Creole) There are many parents who have a difficult time paying for their children. That’s why not all are able to afford Primary School or formal education at a young age.

Narrator: Exempt Jean Charles, a former lay Protestant preacher at Bethesda Baptist School.  The school he founded for families with children in the remote mountain village area of Decouvert.  This was done to help in providing much needed education for suffering families due to the ongoing economic hardship in Haiti.

Exempt: (in Creole)The school currently has 155 students. The tuition for them to go to school is 350 Haitian Gourdes [equivalent to $3.50 USD].

Narrator: Continuing to deal with the struggles faced by his school, he would meet another teacher by the name of Dieunel Joseph. And in their conversation regarding education, another subject matter came up that would change Exempt’s belief about the faith he upheld as a Protestant.

Exempt: (in Creole) I learned about the Church Of Christ from Brother Dieunel Joseph. What made me become a member of the Church Of Christ is listening to all fundamental teachings upheld in the Church. Before, I was taught a lot of things in my former religion as well.  But then, I found out that it was a mistake in following those things. Then I decided to continue and now I am a member of the Church Of Christ.

Narrator: That decision led to more people in Decouvert learning the true gospel and adding a new local congregation.  But even while serving as a head deacon and changing the name of his school to reflect his new found faith, the hardship for his students’ education still remained.   Until timely assistance arrived through the Care For Humanity project spearheaded through the Felix Y. Manalo Foundation:   a donation that will give all of his students a year of schooling, tuition free. 

Tereze Doizon: (in Creole) We say thanks for the help that we received because it will help us a lot. Before we weren’t able to make uniforms for our children and to pay for their schooling.  Now with the help that we received from the Church, our children will now be able to attend classes.

Bro. Camy Agustin:  When we help our fellow men, our country people, it helps us to spread all the more the good news. So people will be able to see how much we show our love to them. It’s a good help for them as well.

Narrator: And this was just one of many events Church Of Christ held to address the needs of some of Haiti’s communities. Over a 5 day period, ministers of the gospel traveled to different places to provide food care packages through Care To Humanity events, while also giving the opportunity to share the true gospel to be shared through evangelical missions led by the Supervising Minister, Brother Esteban Inocencio Jr. in the Ecclesiastical District of the Caribbean, not only providing for the material needs of the people, but more importantly, their spiritual needs.

Brother Christian De Leon: It is God’s will that He wants all people to be saved, but they must come to the knowledge of the truth. We continue to unite with our Executive Minister to teach the words of God in all places, all throughout the world, particularly here in the district or in the Caribbean.

Narrator: With many coming to know and accept the true faith, baptisms were also held in places like Kachon, Decouvert and Petit-Goave.  That growth resulted in the establishing of more Group Worship Services in Les Palms and Kachon, providing for the spiritual needs of the ever growing family of the Church Of Christ in Haiti.

Bro. Esteban Inocencio: The growth of the Church is unstoppable. It has been prophesied in the Bible that when God works, no one can stop this work. And this is indeed a clear manifestation of God’s work. We’re in the very mountains of Haiti. 

Narrator: And with the growth of the true faith, more and more people in Haiti have the chance to receive the greatest aid they could have in their lives

Brother Esteban: It even furthers the growth of the Church, the people knowing how important the Church of Christ is for the attainment of salvation because that is the greatest aid to humanity that we can ever offer mankind

Exempt: All people are happy and I am really happy too because the Church Of Christ is preaching the gospel to us and is helping the community to grow. 

[end video segment]

Brother Juan: This is what we also want you to experience especially in these trying and difficult times. May you join us in the Church Of Christ to be hopeful of God’s promised blessed future not only in this life, most especially, the attainment of salvation and eternal life.

Dear friends, we continue to extend our invitation to you to continue to listen to the teachings upheld in the Church Of Christ. You may visit our website, incmedia.org/espanol. If you have questions, write to us or visit a local congregation near you to know more about the Church Of Christ. I’m Brother Juan Fisher. Thank you for being with us on this episode of El Mensaje.

Growing up CODA Part 3

Aliw Pablo: It’s been a few months now since I’ve met the David brothers, Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel from our Growing up CODA Series. And you know, I remembered when our team here worked on their story. We wondered, will other people, even if they’re not part of the deaf community, relate to their story? Will our listeners gain as much as we did from their story? Well, turns out, we were in for a surprise.

…what stood out to me is how the parents continued to attend worship service for more than 18 years despite not being able to hear

I’m a choir member, So the fact that there’s no music in their worship…still makes me cry.

Because music, the hymns that we have are basically prayers.

That’s what I thought of because for someone who has been hearing all their life, how many times have I taken that for granted?

There is something for everyone in their story and every bit of it was so inspiring!

Aliw Pablo: For the past few weeks, we’ve heard from a lot of you through text messages, comments and direct messages on social media like these:

Thank you so much for sharing such wonderful and inspiring story

…how move I was listening to your life story

Aliw Pablo: And we get it. Many of you, like us, have been completely immersed in the first two Growing up CODA Episodes. So immersed that some have even told us that you’ve listened or watched the first two episodes a few times. 

The kids watched it first and they told me about it… I’ve watched it a couple of times already and I still cry about it! 

Aliw Pablo: And you told us about your biggest takeaways and how these lessons are making an impact in your own lives. 

…and that showed me how God has His ways of showing His love 

…sacrificing yourself so that your kids could have more, could have better…

Aliw Pablo: We heard you. And honestly, we were just as eager as you to meet their parents. 

You’re listening to Making Changes. I’m Aliw Garcia Pablo. It’s a show about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way. But always with God by our side. It’s part three of our Growing up CODA Series and our season finale. Today’s episode is like no other.

Hello, Brother Ramon and Sister Raquel!

Aliw Pablo: And yes, today you will meet the parents, Ramon and Raquel David, who are both deaf. The two people who raised Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel to be the Ministers of the Gospel they are today. And we’ll also be joined by Rose Guillermo, who will translate for us and as you’ll soon learn, is now a part of the David family in a way that only God could have planned. 

Aliw Pablo: Are you recording your video Ka Rose, po?

Rose Guillermo: I think it is on. 

Aliw Pablo: In this episode, you’ll hear from our viewers and listeners who had their own set of questions for the family, specifically for the parents. So many of you wanted to learn more about them, like how do they meet? Or how did they come to that decision to sell the house? And how do they have that kind of faith?

Brother Rowel David: They are very nervous. 

Aliw Pablo: They are doing great. 

Brother Rowel David: That was one of the things that she mentioned. She said, I don’t know what to say. 

Aliw Pablo: So before we get started, you’ll hear a lot of “po” in this episode. “Po” is a term of endearment in the Filipino language used when showing respect to the one you’re talking to. And you’ll also notice us addressing one another as “Brother” or “Sister” or “Ka” short for Kapatid in Filipino. It’s the way we show love for the Brotherhood in the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ.

Aliw Pablo: Brother Ramon and Sister Raquel so nice to finally meet you, for agreeing to be with us on part 3 of Growing up CODA.

Raquel David: Yes, when I saw the invitation, I’m very happy. And also seeing everybody here, my sons, so I’m very grateful. 

Brother Rowel David: When we first told her about the interview, and that everyone wants to meet them she said, ‘Why us? We’re not the only deaf people. Why do they want to meet us? And you know, but they’re very nervous.

Aliw Pablo: How does it feel, po when you watched the episodes po? How did it feel watching, po your sons and hearing their stories?

Raquel David: When I saw my sons I’m truly, truly touched. Very inspired on how they tell the story. And it made me cry. So thank God, I’m very very happy and very proud of my sons.

Aliw Pablo: Which part hit you the hardest Sister Raquel? Which part touched you the most from the stories they told?

Raquel David:  You’re just going to make me cry.  Well, I can still feel the reality of our stories and how my sons grow up. And I’m deaf you know, and I cannot believe it, that they are now Ministers. And this is really God’s gift. I know that God helped my sons and where they are right now. And this really made me happy and very proud. So I really thank God for this. So I know that God will always take care of my sons and their family. He will never forget us. And I truly, truly love God. 

Aliw Pablo: Truly, truly love God. This is a statement that their mother Raquel said over and over again, in this interview. Her deep love and respect for God is truly undeniable. And that alone explained it all: how the boys were raised, how she worshiped, and how she lives her life every day, with no excuses, and with no fear.

And then it was time for them to answer your questions. And because this special episode is for you, our listeners or viewers, I wanted to start with what shocked many, if not all, who listened to part two.

This question is from Jan. She’s actually one of our producers here at INC Media, and who helped us in this recording.

Jan: My question is, when we found out that you sold your house, po, what were your prayers like? What made you decide, okay, we have to sell the house and what were your conversation with your husband? Like, was it easy? Was it an easy decision? Was it a hard decision? Because I cannot even share my french fries with my family, but you sold your house. So tell me how, how did that come about, po?

Raquel David: It’s a lot of stress. It worries me a lot. I know how difficult life in the Philippines is not having enough food. So that came to mind. You know, with Rowel, he got sick, too. He did not tell me that he got sick when he was in the Philippines. He was hospitalized. And I didn’t even know. Nobody told me. How would you feel? You know, I’m the mother. And so I have a niece who told me, you know.

I asked her basically what’s going on in the Philippines. And I’m asking her why I’m feeling this way. I cannot sleep at night. And so I’m asking them, you know.

And finally she told me, but my son being in the hospital. That worries me a lot.

So as soon as I got home, I prayed more. I know, we don’t have a lot of income to support my sons. And so we came to the discussion, we have to sell the house.

And so I continue to encourage my sons to just continue with their studies. I wanted them to continue to become a Minister. And that will make me happy. And we will just be patient. We don’t want to do anything that will ruin their studies. And so I constantly ask for help. So we decided to just move in with my sister and sell the house. That way, I’ll be able to save some money and you know, find ways and means on how we can support my sons. And now they’re doing very well. Thank God.

Aliw Pablo: You know, I must have heard the story about Raquel and Ramon’s decision to sell their house at least a dozen times while we were editing the story. But just like you, I’m still so moved. But let’s back up a little bit. And let’s learn more about Raquel and Ramon before they became parents. Here’s another story that so many of you wanted to know.

Denise: What is your love story, po? How did you meet? And how did you fall in love? That’s all, thank you again.

Aliw Pablo: Before we start we just wanted to mention one thing we learned while producing this episode, which is that both mom and dad were actually not born deaf. As kids they had both taken medication that caused them to lose their hearing. Mom Raquel was a few months old when she lost her hearing while dad Ramon was six years old when he lost his hearing. But anyway, back to their story.

Raquel David: So initially Ramon wanted to be friends with me. And I turned him down right away. He asked me if he can be my boyfriend. And I turned him down right away because I’m an Iglesia Ni Cristo and he’s not a member. So I walked away. I kept on turning him down and I refused to have any relationship because I’m an Iglesia Ni Cristo.

Aliw Pablo: What was it about Sister Raquel that you saw and you like? Why did you like her?

Raquel David: Yes, answer why?

Ramon David: Well, she’s a woman who’s very religious. And I liked that better than the other girls that I saw. She always goes to church.

Aliw Pablo: Eventually, Raquel transferred from a deaf school to a hearing school. Then one day, a knock came at the door.

Raquel David: So before visiting my house, he kept on asking our friends and classmates where I live. And so he got accompanied by someone to visit me at home. And while I’m at home studying, you know, for my homework, my niece answered the door. She saw someone at the door. Saw someone who was very handsome, and told me that there’s someone, a guy who’s at the door.

And I still refuse to see who said that door. And when I saw it’s Ramon, I told him, ‘I don’t have feelings for you. And I don’t want to be in a relationship. I just wanted to continue with my studies. Go home. I don’t want you.’ And he insisted on knowing me. And I told him, I’m a member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo.  A long time ago, this is the sign for Iglesia Ni Cristo. And he did not understand what Iglesia Ni Cristo is. And he became very curious about it. He wants to know more about the Church. And I told him, ‘Well see for yourself and find out for yourself. Look for it.’ Please go home and look for it. So I basically did not help him to find this. But he’s the one who searched for it. I don’t even know what he did. But I think he just did it on his own looking for the Church.

Ramon David: Yes, I actually wanted to go to the Church, you know, because I wanted to be blessed too.

Raquel David: So he went through the doctrinal lessons and he was baptized. And then he came back to my house, knocked on the door and told me that he was baptized.

Aliw Pablo: I thought she had no clue. She had no idea that he was doing Bible studies on his own.

Raquel David: Well, when he knocked on the door and told me that he was baptized, I did not believe him. I thought he was joking. And I asked him, where did he get baptized? And he said, ‘in the Iglesia Ni Cristo. There was a man, a Brother in the Church Of Christ who invited me and you know, guided me and I got baptized.’

I came here to see you. But I still did not believe at that time that he was baptized.

Ramon David: I got baptized in Templo Central in Quezon City. 

Aliw Pablo: And he did. A former Catholic, Ramon began attending worship services in Templo Central in Quezon City, Philippines. He had Bible studies and was eventually baptized. And soon, his dad also joined the Church. So from there, Raquel, now welcomed to being courted by him, and eventually, they got married.

Meanwhile, her parents had petitioned her to come to America. And then it was her time to go. But she was two months pregnant with her first son, Ronnie.

Raquel David: I was very concerned because I had to move to the United States. And so I decided to always pray for help, for guidance when I leave the Philippines for the US. 

Aliw Pablo: What did you pray for? 

Raquel David: I was worried about my worship service. How am I going to get to the worship service if I’m here in America. And you know, that was my concern. I was relying on my parents. Where will we go to church? 

Aliw Pablo: Once Raquel arrived in America, she and her family would travel to Charleston, South Carolina, for worship service, a five hour drive. But with her persistence to be able to worship consistently, Raquel found a way.  

Brother Ronnie David: They were able to find other members across Middle Georgia. And then they decided to have it there in the house in the beginning, and eventually moved on to a YMCA when they grew bigger and so on, so forth became Atlanta, then South Atlanta, North Atlanta. But yes, po it did start there in our house. 

Aliw Pablo: So Sister Raquel was an instrument for the Church to basically have worship services in the whole state of Georgia.

Faith can truly move mountains. The brothers even talked about when their mom first came to America, not knowing yet where to worship. She would still get dressed on Sunday mornings and be in her room and pray. Or when she first had Brother Ronnie as a baby, she would leave the house and walk just keep walking, just wanting to be out looking for the nearest Iglesia Ni Cristo House of Worship.

Her faith was so deeply rooted that no one could pull it, change it, or weaken it.

So a lot of questions, a lot of people.. this is the comment that we got a lot of… is how in the world did both Sister Raquel and Brother Ramon…how in the world did they, did they stay so strong in their faith for 18 years?

Number one, first not having a place of worship when they first arrive, but also not having an interpreter? How do they stay that strong in their faith? And not you know, get lazy in their services or get complacent? Why? Why were their faith so strong all those years? 

Raquel David: Because I always felt that I always wanted to go to church, and I don’t want to miss any worship services. I always go to church because I know that God is the only one who can make me feel better. I don’t want to just miss any worship services and be complacent. I want to go to church and do my service because I really, really love God. Ronnie and Rowel, you know, my family will tell them to stay home and I said ‘no.’ They’re gonna be with me to go to church. They are still my sons. And they will follow me and they will go to church. And so we were always together going to church.

Aliw Pablo: Where does her love for God come from? How did she become like that? How did she become so faithful?

Raquel David: I think this is a lot of respect for God. I feel that deep inside me I always dream about God. It’s just that I feel He’s always by my side. Regardless of what trials and difficulties I am experiencing, that’s how I always felt. That’s always been my feeling. 

Aliw Pablo: It was at this point that I realized while listening to Raquel and how she passionately talks about their deep love for God without saying a word. Perhaps it’s because living in a silent world and often in a lonely world, all her life, that God has been her constant companion in her thoughts, in her dreams, and in every breath she took. Being an outsider in a hearing and unpredictable world, God had been the only one she could rely on.

And as she spoke, we can see how deep faith carried over to her children. Here she talks about how prayer has been a staple in their home, and how she began to tell her boys that God has big eyes.

Raquel David: I know there’s a lot of things going on in school. I don’t want them to copy whatever’s happening in school or any peer pressure. So I always remind them not to listen to bad things. When they go to school, cover their ears. And you know, don’t use bad words. I keep on reminding them, advising them that God is always looking at you. And so don’t ever do that.

And so, later on, what I did, I just constantly reminded them that God is almighty, that they can see him everywhere they are. And so I constantly advise them to always pray, and God will take care of them. So they better be good. So even if I’m not watching, I know that God is just all over. Because I know they’re very young when we started praying to God. And you know, we always have that as part of our lives.

You know, with Ronnie, he inspired me, Ronnie probably is about one year old.

And that night, you know, I told Ronnie, I have to kneel and pray.

And Ronnie was just looking at me. I was on my knees, and he was just watching me and trying to copy me. I didn’t know that he was copying me when I said, Amen. And I looked at Ronnie, he was still praying. And he was holding his hands. He was praying. And it really gave me goosebumps, inspired me to see him praying together with me. And then we slept. I did not teach him, he was just doing it himself. That’s a big inspiration for me to see. So I continue to really, really ask God for help in everything that we do.

Aliw Pablo: But at this point in the interview, we wanted to go back to that life changing moment they had during the 95th anniversary.

What it was like to see you Sister Rose is to see an interpreter for the first time

in America, in a worship service, what was that like for them?

Raquel David: Well, I was just trying to be part and participate in the event.

My husband, Ramon keeps on telling me there’s a sign language interpreter right there on the screen. And I did not see an interpreter. But then my husband, you know, told me to just watch the screen. I did not actually understand a lot of American Sign Language. It was not as clear as before. However, I was just grateful.

Ramon David: So when I saw the interpreter and I saw her on the screen, I decided to get closer to the interpreter. My wife is very shy, and she doesn’t want to go in front. So I went to the front.

Raquel David: I’m not shy. I was with my friends and my sisters sitting down with all my group in my local. You know, we sit together and we talk.

I am shocked. I felt like I’ve been wanting that for so long. I had to sit and really, really pay attention. I did not pay attention to anything. It was a beautiful interpretation. I just love watching. I could envision the church having an interpreter everywhere I go.

Ramon David: Well, I know I’ve been waiting. I’ve been needing a sign language interpreter. So I’ve always wanted to see one. During the 95th, I cannot see from afar, so I had to move forward to see the interpreter right in front of me. That’s what I did. 

Aliw Pablo: I was also really curious about Rose’s version of this pivotal moment.

Rose Guillermo: Yes, 95th is one of the most memorable moments of our lives.

I do have my deaf friends and my parents that I was inviting. They were not members yet of the Church. And one of the reasons we requested for interpretation because I have a lot of dear friends who wanted to go to the 95th living in Washington, DC. 

Aliw Pablo: So just when you think that the story of this family cannot get any more special. Well, you see at this point during the 95th anniversary, the Davids didn’t know Rose, the ASL interpreter. She was from New York while the Davids are from Georgia. What they did not know is that Rose is also a CODA (Child Of Deaf Adults.) She had been trying for over two decades to share her faith with her deaf parents and her friends in the deaf community. And so every chance she could, she would always sign and translate for them in church activities or Bible studies or worship services. And as you’ll soon hear, the way that the lives of these two families will now be intertwined forever is proof that there is no such thing as coincidences.

Rose Guillermo: So we have like, probably about 10 deaf visitors. And it was, it was a moment wherein I told myself, I’m gonna rest a little bit since the main event is over.

And I’m going to sit. So I walked away from the camera, and I saw an empty chair. And there’s a man who, a Brother who was just standing right there with the chair holding on to the chair, but he was not sitting down. He was just standing there and holding on to the chair. So I asked the Brother, Brother, you know, he has the ribbon. When you have a ribbon, you’re a member of the Church. So I said, Brother, are you going to use the chair? And then this Brother started gesturing. So, I said, what? You’re deaf? And then he said,’ Yes.’ So right away, I got my goosebumps knowing that we have a Brother, who’s deaf. I’ve been dying. I’ve been dying to see deaf people in Church. Primarily, my parents were not members at that time. And it’s here on the 95th anniversary. And then he started saying (sign language). When he did that, I started crying because I’ve never seen a Brother, who’s a member, (has the ribbon) and also a deacon at the same time. Who was deaf. That was the first time we’ve ever met. And I said, Where’s your family? Oh, my wife is back there, back there. Bring her over, I’m going to introduce you to my parents. And that’s when it happened.

Aliw Pablo: Even though they didn’t know it yet, this would be the moment that God took their paths and joined it together, making their lives completely intertwined forever. Meanwhile, eventually, Raquel followed her husband, Ramon, and found a seat in front of Rose.

Raquel David: And so in the beginning, like I said, I did not understand fully well, American Sign Language. However, you know, we’re in constant communication with each other. And so I kept up with my ASL skills now. So finally, it’s an open communication for us using this language. 

Aliw Pablo: Now, before we go into the details of how both our families became one big family, let me tell you about our awesome ASL interpreter Rose, who up to this point, had never met another deaf church member. Well, she has her own story to tell.

Rose Guillermo: I’ve experienced so much persecution from my parents. And it’s very difficult when there’s a barrier when it comes to communication. So I have to keep up with the skills of signing. So that one day, they will also be part of the Church Of Christ. And so seeing someone who’s deaf and a member and who’s a deacon, that means my parents have hope. They have hope of getting saved. They have hope of becoming a member too one day. And they did.

Aliw Pablo: And because she’s a CODA herself, she related to the brothers instantly.

Rose Guillermo: But if you have deaf parents, the bonding of the children, the hearing children are just there. We share the same feeling, you know, when you’re…

sometimes you have to explain again and again to our parents what we are trying to say. And we might have our facial expressions, but that’s actually just, you know, explaining it further for them to understand. It’s part of being CODAs. It’s a bond, you cannot just take it away. It’s just there. And so the minute we met each other, it was just that. And ever since then we’re just supporting one another.

Aliw Pablo: But here’s the thing. Rose didn’t meet the brothers till a week later over a video call. In fact, according to the brothers after the 95th celebration, their parents didn’t even tell them they met the interpreter. Meanwhile, what both sets of parents did not know is that their kids had actually met each other at a youth group or Kadiwa gathering the day before the 95th anniversary without knowing how their two worlds would eventually be joined as one. 

Rose Guillermo: I have four daughters. Brother Ronnie and Brother  Rowel met my children. From my understanding, they were bragging, they were so proud of their parents that my daughter said, ‘Oh, yes, my mom is the interpreter in the Church.’ And Brother Rowel said, ‘Oh, yeah, that my mom is deaf.’ So it’s, I don’t know, from my envision it’s happening all at the same time I met the parents while my children met each other. 

Brother Ronnie David: And then it wasn’t about a week later. That’s me and my brother, we were at home. I see my mother she’s talking on… They had this TV phone for deaf people. And I see my mother just going off talking. She’s all excited and all that. You see, like guys come here, you meet this person, in this family.

So then we go over there. I believe Ka Rose is doing the same thing saying, Hey, you guys, get over here. Get over here, you guys. And when we all showed up on the screen, I’ll let my brothers take the rest.

Brother Rowel David: I mean, that’s basically it. We all saw each other on the screen. And we were like, ‘Hey, we met.’ And then the parents were like, ‘No, we you know, we met as well.’ And you know, it just happened this show… 

Aliw Pablo: Okay, we’ll cut to the chase. Brother Rowel, actually ended up falling in love and marrying Rose’s daughter, Crystal. They’ve been happily married now for four years.

Sister Rose is now your… 

Brother Rowel David: My mother-in-law. Hello, Mom 

Aliw Pablo: Your mother-in-law..

Rose Guillermo: I don’t know what God’s plan is. But I’ve always wanted my daughters to just marry a Minister. 

Aliw Pablo: Did you really?

Rose Guillermo: Yes.

Aliw Pablo: Oh, wow. Look at that. Oh, wow. 

Rose Guillermo: It was… we always say it was really meant to be when Brother Rowel finally asks for this. I was like waiting.

Aliw Pablo: So you were… she was waiting more than her daughter was. Oh my goodness, what a beautiful story. So really all around everyone’s prayers were answered. 

And as only fate and God’s plan would have it. These two families are now one big happy family. Oh, and there’s more. Brother Ronnie is currently the resident minister in Bellmore, New York, the same local congregation that Rose and her family are in. Coincidence? Nah, always God’s plan.

Rose Guillermo: One thing Sister Aliw I can tell you is that I am the first one in my whole side of the family to become a member of the Church of Christ.

My only prayer is to have my parents become members too because of their disability. That was the first thing that was on my mind. And now that I have the David family, as part of my family, then it made me more inspired. That I’m not alone. You know, that God did not abandon me in this endeavor for the deaf people because we have the David family who’s going to be there to advocate for what we want to do. It’s something that I believe that God gave us to do, a responsibility for us to do. Sister Aliw, until now I don’t know if I’m making an impact. But seeing my parents being in the church after 27 years of persisting on inviting them and turning me down so many many times, turning me down many times more than when they said yes to doctrinal lessons.

Aliw Pablo: 27 years. Wow. What made you keep going, what made you keep going?

Rose Guillermo: Love for them. Love for the deaf. That’s why I continue to be a professional interpreter because I know whatever I’m feeling for my parents right now I’m also feeling it for the deaf community, for my deaf friends. It’s the only thing I can offer them. And so whatever I gain I already made a promise to God whatever skills I have right now, I’m definitely going to be sharing it with everyone because it is just to share my faith. That’s the main goal to bring more souls into the fold, whether they are deaf or hearing. They should also have the chance they have souls, they should have a chance to also hear God’s words.

Aliw Pablo: Both of Rose’s parents were baptized into the true Church Of Christ, and are also as much of a part of this extended family. Hearing Rose say, ‘I’m not sure if I’m making an impact’ is such a testament to the kind of heart she has of wanting to serve and help.

What started as simply translating for parents in 2005 has now evolved to being a Certified ASL interpreter or translator. She’s the pioneering member of CSD or Christian Society for the Deaf here in the States. Today, she teaches ASL classes as part of the New Era University Certification Program. 

Rose Guillermo: My cultural background with the deaf community helps a lot, po when it comes to that. And so the Church Administration’s advice was to still study. Get certification, get the experience needed, and move from there. So we God’s help, po I was guided properly, and finally got that approval from the Church Administration allowing me to be an interpreter in the Church. Because they already saw the need for the future for the deaf community and for those people who really wanted to be saved.

Aliw Pablo: In the end, God heard the prayers of Rose and Raquel. These two women whose mission and goal were always to help save people and be of service all for God’s honor and glory. He heard, He listened, and He answered.

Sister Raquel, your sons had mentioned that you had told them that you wanted them to be Ministers so they could help the deaf community. When you see your sons on the CSD app, we saw them… when you see how your sons are not just preaching the gospel, but are also able to help save the souls of the deaf, you know, in the deaf community, how does that feel like for you? 

Raquel David: Yes, I’m more excited to invite my deaf friends. I don’t have much, but I wanted to invite more because of that. I want my deaf friends to be saved too.

Aliw Pablo: So your sons told us Sister Raquel, that you have no fear.  You will invite the deaf, you will invite the hearing, the speaking. Where do you get that bravery? Why are you so brave and so courageous and you never let being deaf hold you back from sharing your faith?

Raquel David: Well, I want to show them a good example. So I keep on inviting. It’s just the way it is. And at my job, you know, I also know I also invited them you know…7 of them actually, I invited. They’re not deaf, they’re hearing. Constantly inviting. I just want to ask them you know, I mean even if they refuse my invitation. It’s OK. And the next thing I do is I invited my deaf friends using my video relay. I will invite them, call them you know, just listen to Bible studies.

Aliw Pablo: At this point in our interview, I think Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel would like to say something to you. First, Sister Rose.

Brother Ronnie David: You know, Ka Rose, ever since the 95th and just knowing that my parents were getting interpretation, it was already a big thing back then.

But to see that it just kept on going, and it never stopped. You kept on interpreting.

If I could share Sister Aliw, even after we, me and my brother will come back on breaks. There was one time even Ka Rose visited, she surprised my family, her daughters and she was able to interpret in the worship service in one of our breaks. And I just remember that it meant so much to my parents. Ka Rose I just want you to know it meant a lot to us too. We need to see that because even for us that first year, our prep year in school was very tough. And you need all the inspiration you can get.

And see when in terms of my parents, that was just another reminder, that was just something else to tell us that we need to keep on going. And to see that everything is keep on doing for the Church. Until now, you still are interpreting in the worship services. Even later, after this podcast, we’re going to be having a study of God’s word, an Evangelical Mission sponsored by the Christian Society for the Deaf, and we already have confirmed guests, and we’re excited to see them, it just blows my mind that until now, we can still work together like this. And God’s allowing it, you know, even for me myself to be in your local as your Resident Minister, you as my Head Secretary. And we can go out there in the field, and we’re just trying to bring in as many souls as we can. It’s just, it’s amazing that we always talked about this before. And then we’re finally doing it. So Ka Rose, thank you so much. And also thank you for helping my parents. To go so long without receiving the words of God. And what little spiritual advice he could give us, which was more than enough for a little spiritual, or religious or Christian or biblical knowledge they had, has expanded tenfold, because of the way you were able to help relay the words of God to them through interpretation. So not only did it develop more for me, my brother, but even for my parents, thank you so much, Ka Rose, it means a lot. 

Brother Rowel David: Just like what Kuya Ronnie mentioned, that inspired us as well. Until now, you know, for me, I thank God all the time, because He’s allowing my brother to be able to be there with you in your local congregation. I’m thankful for that because I know that there, I know that the work they can do together, will be able to help so many more people like our parents. And so thank you so much. And of course, you know, I can’t, I have to be able to say thank you as well for accepting me to be your son. It’s a blessing, it is how much you’ve inspired us. And then now to know that I can be able to call you mom, it means a lot. So thank you.

Rose Guillermo: I’ve been looking for a son. So sometimes my children are very jealous that I am very much into my sons than my daughters. So thank you for taking one of mine. Thank you, thank you, you are an inspiration to all of us.

We did an interview with Brother Ronnie and we were just talking about that. Time flies. He was just a student before, before we met him, he was not in the ministry yet. And now he’s a full-fledged Minister taking care of our local congregation. So we’re very, very blessed. So praise be to God. Thank you so much.

Aliw Pablo: Of all the local congregations of the Church in the world, we’re talking 1000s. And God placed brother Ronnie, in your own local congregation, Sister Rose. There is no doubt that there is work that God really wants you both to do together. So that’s so beautiful to see.

And, you know, before we end this Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel, can we just say thank you for sharing your parents with us. Because we know they’re your biological parents. But we feel like watching the stories you’ve told us.

I know a lot of members in the church that watch your story feel like they are being raised by your parents too, because of the lessons that they gave you that are sticking with people that have watched you that you may never meet in person ever. But they know your story and your life story and how God has worked

your  life, your challenges, all for the good that you know that we’re obviously seeing today? Is there anything Brother Ronnie, Brother Rowel that you would like to tell your parents? I mean, now that you know, your stories out? And is there anything that you’d like to tell them in hindsight now that you are full-fledged Ministers and grown adults and grown men about just the impact that they’ve had on your life as far as raising you the way that they did?

Brother Rowel David: Would you want me to go first Ronnie, are you?

Brother Ronnie David: You go first.

Brother Rowel David: Well, first I just want to say before I think then I just want to say thank you to the Church Administration and this podcast, because it’s giving us this kind of opportunity. You know, growing up, we being children of deaf adults, we don’t always have someone that we can, you know… that communication barrier is tough. And so we don’t always have that opportunity to be able to express our feelings and emotions. But then through something like this, you’re giving us an opportunity to be able to really say thank you. You know, we’ve never really done this,

when it comes to our parents, until it means a lot to be able to actually do it. And so for Mom and Dad, thank you. Thank you for the example that you gave us.

You know, that one of the questions that the brethren asked earlier was, you know, how was it that you were able to raise two boys to be able to become ministers? And I know, you know, for everyone that’s watching, you know, if you notice my mom, and dad, they didn’t really answer the questions directly. But that’s just because that, you know, even when it came to raising us, they never raised… I guess, I guess we’ll say they never raised us directly. It was always indirect with what they were teaching us. You know, it was always that example, that example about prayer. It was when we were young, we were one, two years old. That’s how we were all… she was already teaching us that, that example that she gave us. So you know, if there’s anything I could say, it’s just really thank you for being the best example that we have.

Because everything we do now, everything we are, it’s because of the example that you gave us. And so thank you. You know, even though we’re in the Holy Ministry and we may not always be able to be together. But just like what you always taught us, we know that God is always taking care of you. So I just want to say thank you for always teaching that. Thank you, mom.

Brother Ronnie David: Hey mom and dad, thanks for letting me be your son.

You know, it’s funny. Yeah. Hi, mom. You know, it’s funny. This is me talking to you right now mom and dad. Our life has been so simple this whole time, just to remind you how simple it was. She just wanted to see us. And I know my mom, she wasn’t mad at me that we weren’t spending time. We went a whole week together. And we ate together one time. Not even at home, we didn’t have dinner or breakfast or anything. We went out one time to eat because I was just so busy performing my duty. That’s exactly what she wanted to see. She’d never complained the whole time.

Even though we’ve seen each other nowadays is once in a moment, you can even say once in a lifetime. And even nowadays, whenever I’m preaching, I always think about the younger ones. And I want the Kadiwa and Binhi, the younger generation to really, really take our membership seriously. We only get this life once. We only have one chance. And whenever I preach, whenever I think about them, I always think about what my mom would say to me, what my dad would do for me. Because it really did stick in my heart. And for some of them that are going through problems with their kids, or problems with their parents, and my families come to me and say we’re having problems with each other. I tried to tell them just take it back, take it slow.

You got to sit back and realize God is doing something for you. Because even till now, even though I’m a full-fledged Minister, even though I have my own local, I’ve been part of the district. My mom still takes her time to message me every once in a while and say, ‘Hey, did you eat anything today?’ Did you get enough sleep? Did you get a drink? And my mother, I just want to say thank you so much for teaching me that.

I’m so thankful that I can live my life inside the church. And that it could have went bad really fast. It could have went the wrong way. And I’m growing up now where I see a lot of my friends aren’t with me. They don’t hold on to their membership. Unfortunately, some of them let it go. And their parents said everything they could to them and they didn’t listen. I’m so thankful you didn’t say that much. And I’ve never forgot. And I just hope I can be like that to my kids one day. Because sometimes I’m scared when I see this life has to offer to younger people. And if younger people are already going through such a hard time. How can I take care of my kids? What if I don’t have the words to help them get through what they’re going through or even stick to their faith but you mom, dad, like you need to say much. But here we are now. And I hope I can be good parents that you are to me and Rowel. And I beg God to He’ll continue to strengthen you too because until now, you’re still my inspiration, mom, dad. You still remind us of what we need to do. I thank God that He blessed us with parents like you. 

Raquel David: Thank you very much. Thank you for telling all these stories. I’m truly grateful and very happy that my sons are also here today, being together with them.

I know I’m gonna cry again. God bless both of you. God bless. You stay strong, and we’re very proud of you. Thank God

Aliw Pablo: This was one of those interviews where we just didn’t want it to end. It’s an interview I’ll never forget.

Special thanks to the David family for this life changing experience for anyone who has been moved by their life story and immovable faith. Thanks, Rose Gullermo, our ESL  translation. And for still patiently helping us in this whole CODA series. And a special shout out to Jojo and Diana Gallevo who are the voice dubs for Ramon  and Raquel David.

Well, we hope that you enjoy this episode and please share it with anyone you know who could use some hope and faithful stories like this today. That wraps up Season 2 of Making Changes. Thanks for listening and watching and just being part of the story with us for this Growing up CODA series. We’ll be back in a few months with a new season. Meanwhile, be sure to follow us on our making changes podcast Instagram account, and we would greatly appreciate it if you could leave us a review wherever you get our podcast. 

Making Changes is hosted by me and co-produced and co-written with Michelle Beretta, edited by Mike Bigayan and Christine Affenir.  Original music by Lauren Santos and Daniel Quitalig. Graphic design by Jason Salazar and Doctrinal guidance by Brother Joe Velazquez. 

Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Raising CODA

Aliw Pablo: Hi Hershey, how are you?

Hershey Cruz: I’m good. How are you?

Aliw Pablo: I’m good. I’m good. I’m so glad that you agreed to do this with us. But you know…

Aliw Pablo: This is Hershey. A wife and a mom of two beautiful kids, and a very close family friend of ours. And since meeting the David family from our episodes on growing up CODA or children of deaf adults, hearing their story made me think about Hershey. And here’s why.

Hershey Cruz: I am currently deaf, that’s how I identify. But I was not born deaf. I was born with perfect hearing. I’ve been a choir member since I was 8 years old. It wasn’t until my mid to late 20s when I noticed the change in the way I heard and understood sounds.

Aliw Pablo: We’ve heard from so many of you since our Growing up CODA episodes. Thank you so much for your comments and feedback. We heard a lot from moms and how it resonated with you. Well, today on this bonus episode, we’re talking about raising CODA. We’ll introduce you to Hershey, who’s in the same shoes as Brother Ronnie and  Brother Rowel’s mom, Raquel. We’ll hear about the challenges of being a mother with hearing loss. We’ll get an inside look at the deep struggles of what it’s like to raise kids as a deaf mom today. And how meeting the David family and our ASL interpreter Rose Guillermo has completely changed her perspective on her new normal, which is a completely silent world, and sometimes a lonely world.

Hershey Cruz: People would call me from across the street. So they would go up to me, “Hey, I was trying to call you but you didn’t hear me.” I said, “You were? No, I didn’t hear you at all.” You know, so during that time, people just thought I was always daydreaming. I was…

Aliw Pablo:  From INC Media Audio, you’re listening to Making Changes. A podcast about changes we go through and the life lessons we learned along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. 

Aliw Pablo: Today’s episode is Hershey’s story. She grew up hearing but with no medical explanation. She began to slowly lose her hearing until finally a few years ago, everything went completely silent.

Hershey Cruz: What I was telling God in my prayer was how will I get through that situation if I can’t hear your words of advice during the worship service?…

Aliw Pablo: She’s still able to speak but she can’t hear herself speak. Just a note though, today we’re talking to Hershey through Rose, our ASL interpreter. And in case you have a hard time understanding Hershey as a podcast, feel free to watch the video version on the INC media app complete with subtitles in sign language. Oh, and in case you haven’t seen Growing up Coda parts one and two yet, there may be some spoiler alerts towards the end of this podcast. Heads up. So come meet Hershey.

Hershey Cruz: Eventually, I started feeling like something was wrong, but I didn’t relate to hearing loss. I thought it was my brain.

Aliw Pablo: Then one morning she woke up and she felt like she was wearing permanent earplugs. When she would talk she could barely hear the sound of her voice. Then a specialist confirmed it. Her hearing loss was only getting worse until finally, she could no longer hear her husband Clint’s voice or her children’s voices. But there was one thing that truly frightened her.

Hershey Cruz: I think one of the most painful things to accept about my hearing loss was at that time was not being able to hear the hymns in the worship service. And not being able to understand the minister while he’s preaching.

Aliw Pablo: For a while she thought that maybe sitting in the front row would help her read the minister’s lips in the worship services.

Hershey Cruz: I tried my best, I was looking at the choir, I was looking at the minister. And you know, I closed my eyes. And I really felt like I was in almost, I was in an almost empty room, because I could barely make anything out. So I remember sitting there and I was crying in my seat. And I took advantage of that hour of sitting there in silence to pray. And I really remember this so clearly, I was crying because I really wanted to be a part of the worship service but not being able to hear anymore. I just felt so separated, you know, but in my prayer, I was telling God if I never hear my family again, I’m okay with it. It’s okay. I’ll accept that. But how am I supposed to live if I can’t, if I can’t hear the words like, you know, when we attend the worship service, that’s where we get our source of strength and inspiration. So what I was telling God in my prayer is how will I get through this situation, if I can’t hear your words of advice during the worship service, because it’s what makes me strong. So I finally said in my prayer. If this is your will, please give me peace of mind about it. Because right now, I’m just not peaceful. I don’t know what to do.

Hershey Cruz: But I continued to worship with my family, knowing that my faith always brought me to worship and I know that God knew what was going on. And I just had to trust that whatever was happening, there was a part of a bigger picture that I didn’t know at that time, and I just have to trust that.

Aliw Pablo: And just like Ramon and Raquel David, Hershey worshiped relying solely on the Holy Spirit. And just like how the 95th anniversary was pivotal for the David couple. For Hershey, it was the video stream worship services with our Executive Minister Brother Eduardo Manalo, that gave her so much hope and lifted up her spirits.

Hershey Cruz: And when the closed captioning came up, in other words, the subtitles, I was so happy because that was the first time ever, in a long time, that I would be able to completely understand by reading the caption. What caught me by surprise was in the corner of the TV, I saw a sign language interpreter, a brother interpreting and I thought to myself, wow, you know, the Church Administration, they are providing Interpreters for the deaf. You know, whoever’s watching and whoever is deaf can benefit from that lesson from the Executive Minister. So I thought to myself, it was like an ‘aha moment.’ Maybe if I learn sign language, in the future, I can request for an interpreter in the worship service. 

Hershey Cruz: So after that moment, after that service, I started to look up the ABCs on YouTube. And started learning slowly, you know, and moving forward after that, and my local started learning with me. A lot of the brethren started learning sign languages with me to help me, to show their love and support for me. And since then CSD was established in my district. And now I’m getting sign language interpretation every worship service.

Aliw Pablo: Wanting to learn ASL opened up a whole new world for Hershey, especially since it was becoming more and more difficult for her to communicate with her family and to just be a mom. And the everyday things of just knowing her children’s everyday needs became a struggle.

Hershey Cruz: I remember when I first started learning sign language there was about maybe it was five years ago, and my daughter was only five. She was crying because she was trying to tell me something. And I remember I just couldn’t hear her. And she just started crying. And finally, I was able to comprehend that she was trying to tell me and that she wants to buy pencils at school. During this time, I’ve already learned sign language together. So I thought it was also a moment of truth for her because she realized she needs to, she needs to sign, she needs to learn with me. Because that’s the only way to communicate with me at that point. The biggest challenge as a mom, not being able to hear them, especially when they’re sick, for example, like my son was sick, and he wakes up in the middle of the night crying. And my husband has to wake me up. Because he doesn’t want dad, he wants mom. And I can never hear them crying. You know, that they need my help. They’re in another room. Someone has to get me. I don’t know, I still identify myself as a hearing person sometimes. And over the years I had to learn that I had to change that. Because I am not a hearing person anymore. I cannot hear ambulances. I cannot hear the fire trucks. And I remember there was this one time I was driving and I remember I looked in my rearview mirror and my daughter said, “Mom, look outside!” And I’m like, Oh, there’s this fire truck right next to me. And he was getting so angry with me because I did not get out of the way. I was the only person in the lane.

Aliw Pablo: And with her son Colin who’s on the autism spectrum and his nonverbal, learning and knowing ASL has been a game changer for her.

Hershey Cruz: I remember there’s one instance where we were in the kitchen and he was trying to tell me something. And I said, “Colin, I can’t hear you. I’m sorry.” You know I was trying to explain to him. But he went in front of me and he said(making hand motion) Oh, You want a cookie? Hold on, I’m going to get you a cookie.” And he said “yes. I want a cookie!” (signing)  Now he can sign basic things like that.  So even with me and him, it’s really, our relationship is really challenging, but also a learning experience for both of us until he realizes that I can’t hear him. Those are the challenges I face as a mom.

Aliw Pablo: Well, first off, I want to, I want to raise my hat off to you because that is what you deal with on a daily basis. We can only imagine how tough it must be but yet, looking at you, you know, you’ve all, I’ve known you for many years, and you’ve always had such a positive outlook, you know, on life and always with a beautiful smile. So you’re a mom with a son? How did the Growing up CODA episodes when you watched it, what went through your mind? And how did you feel?

Hershey Cruz: Well, first of all, five years ago, when I started my deaf journey and learning sign language, I remember texting you. “Do you know anyone in the church who is going through what I’m going through, like the deaf community in the church?” And you told me, “Yes, I do. Sister Rose from New York. She was raised by deaf parents.” I remember texting her. And I remember telling her that I am losing my hearing and I need to learn sign language. And she started telling me that oh, you know, I’ve worked for, I’ve worked with deaf and the blind. You work with deaf and blind? What? You know already in my heart. You know, me going through challenges but there’s other people in this world who are going through bigger challenges than me and she was telling me stories about it. And then she went on to tell me about there’s a deaf couple in Georgia who are deacon and deaconess. And they’re very active. They don’t have an interpreter for many years now but they’re so active, they continue on in their faith. And right now their sons are in the ministry. Really! I have so many questions in my head. Because you know, how do you  navigate as a deaf couple raising two hearing sons  and then they’re now ministers. You know me from me, I have two little kids that I’m still learning as a parent, not just as a parent, but as a deaf parent. So knowing this story, that there’s another family out there who has been through it longer than I have, it really inspired me.

Aliw Pablo: And that’s how she met the David family. God began to give her people to help her on this new journey, a new chapter in her life. It gave her hope and guidance, and how to raise her kids as a deaf mom.

Hershey Cruz: And I remember whenever people asked me how, how did you get through your hearing loss and I would always mention that God, sends me people to help me to overcome and the David family was one of the families that really made me see that you do not need to hear to be able to feel God. And I remember finally meeting their mom, I was able to get her phone number and I video chatted. And she’s such an awesome, down to earth individual. And I told her that I just lost my hearing and I’m still learning and she would teach me signs and she was so patient with me and we would chat through the years. They also told me stories about how their mom had paint that big picture about how God’s eyes are big. You know, having two little kids I always wondered how am I supposed to teach my children, you know?  I’m still learning. When you use sign language, and you paint the kind of picture with your hands, it’s very impactful because you use your hands, you use your space to show your child. You use your facial expressions, you don’t use your voice, but they see you paint this big picture about how God can see everything. You know and that’s exactly how I’ve been trying to teach my daughter too so their parents set an example for me through the years just by knowing those stories. 

Hershey Cruz: So you know, when I watched the CODA video, you know, I only got bits and pieces from the David brothers five years ago. Bits and pieces but when I saw both episodes of the CODA series I was just amazed because I did not know the full story. And not only did they have to overcome so much as a deaf  couple by raising two sons but they had to struggle.  They struggle living in America, living in a hearing world, and not being able to have anyone to talk to, not being able to communicate, and knowing that the mom and dad, the mom and dad (were) able to navigate through this, and they made it look so effortless. 

Aliw Pablo: Yes. 

Hershey Cruz: They did not use their disability as an excuse to not be able to do anything; they did everything they possibly could. And every aspect of their life, you know, financially, teaching the children, just everything working hard.

Aliw Pablo: Which part in the both episodes do you think hit you the hardest?

Hershey Cruz: There are many parts. One about, one of the things that David brothers mentioned was just feeling, crying during the worship service and feeling the Holy Spirit and the kids were wondering why are they crying? You know, sometimes I don’t hear, sometimes I don’t have an interpreter when I go to church, right? But it’s what you feel in your heart. It’s not just about the interpreter, but it’s about the Holy Spirit you feel in your heart. And I really, that was very relatable to me. Very relatable to me. And also, I think it was when they were explaining  how the parents sold their house just to provide for them in the ministry and they just had no idea. You guys sold the house? What? You know, I can’t even imagine the hardship they were going through. It was so touching.

Aliw Pablo: And just like how Brother Ronnie and Brother Rowel were there for their parents. Hershey’s daughter Caitlin has been her liaison to the world.

Hershey Cruz: And you know, I always tell stories when people ask me about my daughter because when we’re out, she is my interpreter. Right now she loves that I’m not sure how she will do in the future. But right now she loves interpreting for me. But at times when I’m by myself and especially during the pandemic, I have to wear a mask and I can’t see if people are  talking to me, I just can’t. So what I did  is I ordered a pin that says I’m deaf and I have it attached to my bag or have it somewhere where if I see them, if I see that person I’m talking to, I point to it.

Aliw Pablo: And I want to know how much of a help has Sister Rose been to you in your life because she’s the first person in the church that you met as far as in the deaf community in the church. I know you share a special bond.

Hershey Cruz: Well, Sister Rose is so very, very special to me because I will tell you right now she is my first sign language teacher. So I remember contacting Sister Rose. Sister Rose I don’t have any idea, I don’t know if I can understand. So she’s…knowing Sister Rose she said, calm down first of all. You’ll get through it.  It’s gonna take time.  She was teaching me one by one each individual read. And then by the end of that session, I realized that she was teaching me Doxology! From the very moment I met her when I first met her she’s always just been so helpful. And she introduced me to her parents.

 (Video of video chatting)

Aliw Pablo: But I have a question. And I don’t know Ka Rose, if this is a technical question, but is it common for people like Hershey, they can lose their hearing but they can still speak or for some when they lose their hearing they also lose their speech.

Rose Guillermo: So this question is for me?

Aliw Pablo: Yes, it’s for you. Since you’re the expert.

Rose Guillermo: My father was born deaf. He can never voice. He never knew anything about voicing, he can call me “ost” instead of “Rose” and cannot pronounce it. I have to touch his neck, let his hand touch my neck. Rose, I wouldn’t try to feel the vibration sound, but he would not be able to do it. So because he was born deaf. But my mom, she can count in Tagalog: Isa, dalawa, tatlo, apat…. She can do that. So it really depends. But with Sister Hershey who lost her hearing at a later time. And she’s already an adult. So she has the ability to voice and that’s why, you know, she can keep that. Actually, it’s an advantage for her to use her voice still. Even though she has hearing loss. 

Aliw Pablo: That’s true. Hershey, when you speak, you said you no longer can hear your voice. Do you then just feel the vibration in your neck? Do you feel that?

Hershey Cruz: That’s a good question. I can’t hear my voice at all. And I mean you know sometimes people tell me I’m too loud or too soft. But I have no idea. So sometimes, now at present I understand why other people just want to turn off their voice. Because it’s just easier for me to turn off my voice and sign. But the challenge is I have to use my voice to people because it’ll make communication easier even though I turn it off for my own comfort. I can’t turn it off. No and yeah, I couldn’t.

Aliw Pablo:  Do you feel something here? Do you feel even though you can’t hear but do you feel a vibration? No?

Hershey Cruz: I can feel the vibration if I touch my throat. This is the same with my son. What I mean with my son and when we’re attending the worship service, since he has autism he tends to, he tends to blurt things out, right? So, I have to keep my hand near his neck. Because I can’t hear him I will know he’s talking because I feel the vibration. And yeah, that’s a challenge too for me with my son. 

Aliw Pablo: We’re so glad that Hershey is still willing to use her voice to communicate and connect with others to create awareness about Deaf culture. As a side note, I was surprised to know that after all these years, Hershey and Rose have yet to meet in person. But it’s obvious that they share a very special bond. What do you think, you know, the name of our show is Making Changes. What do you think was the biggest change in perspective that you had that allowed you to now accept your reality and what God has handed to you?

Hershey Cruz: My biggest change I think the biggest change in me is knowing that the unknown even though it’s scary, trusting God and putting Him first no matter what. I think that was the biggest change in me, because you know, when you’re going through something scary, it’s so hard. It’s so hard to trust. It’s so hard to move forward from the situation. But when you really pray hard, and you ask God for guidance, and He shows you things that you’ve never seen before, He shows you miracles in your life that has never happened to you before. It really shifts our perspective with just not trusting what you know. Not looking at the scary thing that’s in front of you. But just looking ahead. This is good for you. And you’ll find out later why.  But if you ask God to take away that fear, He’ll take it away. And He did. And that’s all fear is. It’s something that you want to keep because you don’t know what else to do. But when God takes that away, even though your situation is exactly the same? You’re happy. And that is something that I’ve always carried with me and realized through my own experience that God is the One who gives you peace of mind if you ask.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah, you have all these extended family members now in your life.

Hershey Cruz: Yes, and I remember I started with you Sister Aliw because you are the one who connected me to Sister Rose who connected it to Davids, who connected me to everything, you know. If it wasn’t for my locale at that time in Irvine, if they did not jump at the chance of learning Sign language with me… they helped me to immerse even though we’re all beginners. They helped me to immerse, they sat with me in the sign language section and little by little you know, I was picking up church signs, I was able to understand 70% of the lessons and it became 80. And right now it’s up to 99% now. 

Aliw Pablo: What is the difference between that Hershey that was first given that diagnosis to who you are today?

Hershey Cruz: I would say back then, I was just scared. I was constantly scared, I was constantly hiding. I remember telling my husband at one point, “Clint, you know what, I can kind of hear your voice now. But one day, there might be a time where I will not hear your voice anymore.” And I told him that was one of my biggest fear. And it happened. But by the time it happened and I couldn’t hear his voice anymore, sign language started to be more frequent in my life. And CSD started in my local (congregation), and God just did so many things, so many people to just take away that fear, for people just constantly gave me guidance. What became one of the scariest moments of my life became my biggest blessing. You know, you would think that, oh, you know, people would look at me and say, “Oh, I’m so sorry, you lost your hearing.” Maybe at that time when I first lost it, I would probably be okay, yeah, me too. But now, I can’t even regret that I lost my hearing. I’m just so thankful that I did because I met so many wonderful people, so many inspiring people. And at the same time you have that… I have that happiness too in my heart that you know, when people tell me that I’ve helped them in some way overcome theirs (challenges). And that is something that I’m also thankful for if my challenge became someone’s strength, just as the David family was my strength, then everything I had to overcome was worth it.

Aliw Pablo: “Everything I had to overcome was worth it.” she said. You know, I’m just in awe of Hershey’s strength and her positive perspective, despite the challenges that she faces every day. And you know, there is a glimmer in Hershey’s eyes when she speaks. I could feel the inner peace in her like never before and I thought this is what answered prayers look like. Thank you, Hershey, for sharing your story with us. And thank you to her mentors, the David family, and Sister Rose for helping guide her through all these years. It really is a small world, isn’t it? Well, we hope that Hershey’s story brought you peace and hope and dealing with whatever challenges you’re going through today. And be sure to share this episode with a friend who could use Hershey’s story to lift them up. And by the way, stay tuned for growing up CODA Part Three coming soon. You don’t want to miss our season finale. I’m so excited for you guys to hear part three. So be sure to follow us on our Instagram account at Making Changes podcast so you will know when part three drops. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.