This week Andrew Laird welcomes Dez Holmes, Director of Research in Practice and Strategic Director for Practice and Programmes at the National Children’s Bureau.

They discuss the role public services can play in making growing up great again! and why so many of our systems struggle at the point young people turn 18.

Dez challenges the myth of a neat shift from ‘child’ to ‘adult’ and notes that for many people adulthood arrives earlier (caring responsibilities, adversity) or later (new responsibilities, work, family), but our systems often behave as if it happens at the same fixed point for everyone.

Complex problems don’t respond well to linear plans which pretend we can predict outcomes upfront. Andrew and Dez explore what it looks like to test a hypothesis, adapt in the light of evidence, and create the safety to learn.

Above all, in this episode Dez reminds us that frustration with the system should never overpower hope and we must always ask ourselves: “what impact is this having in people’s lives?” and not just “what have we delivered against the plan”?