In the latest episode of Radical Reformers, Andrew Laird meets Becca Dove, Head of the Camden Centre for Relational Practice and Transformation and Simon Parker, Executive Director of Resources at Bath and North East Somerset for a rich, reflective conversation about making relational practice the norm in public services.

They explore what it really takes to embed relational ways of working across whole organisations, not just at the frontline. Drawing on their personal journeys through journalism, policy, think tanks and local government, Simon and Becca reflect on why relationships are foundational to better outcomes, stronger cultures and more sustainable public services.

The conversation moves from theory to practice, with examples from Camden and B&NES, including neighbourhood working, community-led approaches, relational budgeting and partnership models that grew out of the pandemic. Becca and Simon also grapple honestly with the tensions and challenges: inspections, budgets, evidence, and how to make relational change stick beyond individual leaders.

Above all, this episode makes the case that relational practice is not a “nice to have”, but a practical, intuitive and increasingly necessary response to rising demand and tightening budgets.

As Becca says, “honest and compassionate relationships have to be the first priority on which everything else is built”.

In this week’s Radical Reformers, Andrew welcomes two exceptional local government finance leaders, Rob Powell, Executive Director for Resources, Warwickshire County Council and Nina Philippidis, Executive Director of Resources and Deputy Chief Executive, Gloucestershire County Council.

Local government finance is facing pressures unlike anything we’ve seen before - but with the right leadership, there are also opportunities to reimagine how local government functions and the role it plays.

Nina and Rob share powerful insights about what its really like to lead and make tough decision in local government against a backdrop of frequently changing policy and ever tightening budgets.

Here’s a taste of what they cover:

- Multi-year settlements: Do they truly change how councils plan or is the ultimate impact more limited?

- Thinking beyond the organisation: Why leading for a place rather than for a council is essential.

- Investing to save: How finance directors balance short-term pressures with the long-term need for prevention and innovation.

- Local Government Reorganisation: The big opportunities ahead - from simplifying structures to tackling deep-rooted challenges like health inequality and long-term worklessness.

- Leadership and careers: How local government finance is far more inspiring and impactful than people realise!

This conversation is packed with honesty, practical wisdom, and forward-thinking optimism about the future of public services.

All the buzz is about relational public services – and rightly so.

In this week’s Radical Reformers, we welcome not one, but two experts in the subject, Professor Hannah Hesselgreaves and Professor Chris Fox from the Policy Evaluation Research Unit at Manchester Metropolitan University.

They explore the role academia plays in the development of public service reform and public policy, and how it should play a deeper, more relational role in public service reform, far beyond traditional evaluation.

A key theme is the value of involving academics early on as learning partners who help test assumptions, shape interventions, and co create knowledge alongside practitioners and people with lived experience.

This episode coincides with the publication of a research paper on “Policy Priorities to Support Relational Public Services”. You can access the full report here - https://mmuperu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/429/2025/12/Relational-Public-Services-Policy.pdf

Hannah and Chris are leading lights in relational public services, and this episode is for anyone working in public service reform, systems change or place-based leadership.

Radical Reformers is back! Andrew Laird kicks off the new year in conversation with Jason Strelitz of the Health Foundation and formerly Director of Adults, Health & Communities at Newham Council.

Jason brings a wealth of experience and insight having worked on the Marmot Review into health inequalities and also the Grenfell Recovery programme. He’s also the author of a great book – "Same Storm, Different Boats" - which is a powerful account of the COVID-19 pandemic response in Newham.

In this episode, Jason and Andrew discuss the importance of building trust and genuine partnership with communities in order to support better, healthier and more fulfilling lives. Jason explains that improving public health is about understanding the full spectrum of challenges faced in a "place" and then distributing power and resources as widely as possible. 

As we have discussed before on Radical Reformers, the relationship with communities changes when we move from “This is what we can do for you” to “This is what we can do together.”

In the latest Radical Reformers episode, Andrew Laird welcomes Des Murray, Chief Executive of North Lanarkshire Council and Chair of Solace Scotland. Des shares his personal journey from growing up in Lanarkshire to leading the council in his hometown, highlighting the power of local roots and the value of a generalist perspective in leadership.

He explains how North Lanarkshire’s “one plan” approach integrates housing, economy, infrastructure, and digital strategy to deliver real change for communities. The council’s success, he argues, comes from aligning all partners behind a shared vision and focusing on outcomes that improve lives, not just statistics.

Des emphasises a need to steer away from our obsession with immediacy and that meaningful change comes from long term vision, tough decisions and the bravery to address bias in all its forms to achieve the best for the people that need it most.

It’s a powerful reminder that visionary leadership, local knowledge and honest conversations are essential for public service reform.

Across the UK, adult social care is in crisis.

This episode of the #RadicalReformers podcast brings you a rare social care success story.

Rachel Law and Gemma Murphy are two of the all-female leadership team at PossAbilities CIC, an adult social care social enterprise based in the Northwest of England.

With a team of 800 operating across multiple council areas, PossAbilities is bucking the trend. Rachel, Gemma and the team not only deliver outstanding services but consistently achieve financial sustainability which enables further investment to support the community they care for.

In this episode, Andrew Laird explores the source of this success, including a small, innovative and courageous executive team, a very thin middle management layer, not constantly assessing people and diversification into areas like building their own residential care accommodation. It really is #RadicalPlaceLeadership #RelationalWorking in action.

The PossAbilities team recently had a visit from Baroness Casey’s commission team - and we learn about what they are exploring in that important work.

This is an inspiring conversation and there are lessons to be learned for all public services. Could it be that the resources public services need are there – they’re just not focused on the right things..?

This week on Radical Reformers, Andrew talked to Adrian Brown, Chief Executive of the Windfall Trust, to explore how artificial intelligence will continue to reshape public services.

Adrian provides us with a grounding in AI and how it will inevitably touch every aspect of our lives. Most of the discussion is focused on the awesome opportunities and worrying risks that AI poses for public services. While AI might help us navigate complexity, understand data and speed up services, we must not lose sight of what it means to be human and the importance of building genuine relationships.

The pace of change is rapid, and public services must adapt quickly to keep up. Those working in public services are currently faced with the huge challenge of weighing up risk versus reward in an environment where AI is evolving at breakneck speed (even in the time it has taken you to read this!).

Can we risk having essential public services reliant on a technology we don't fully understand... can we afford not to?

If there was ever an episode to spark debate among your peers, then this is it!

In the latest episode of #RadicalReformers, Andrew Laird talks to Helen Bailey, Chief Executive of Sutton Council. Helen brings the rare experience of senior roles in both central government and local government and her perspective on the ‘bridge’ between central policy and local delivery is invaluable.

It’s an extremely timely discussion with the renewed interest in the concept of ‘Total Place’, as Helen was in the Treasury when Total Place was first explored. She encourages local leaders to see themselves as conveners of place, not just statutory service providers and urges us all to challenge current solutions and the material difference they’re making.

Helen also reminds us that mistakes are inevitable in public service delivery and that leaders must remain curious and brave enough to try and learn from new things.

We love Helen’s optimism and hope you’re as inspired as we are to “Look for the gaps, look for the cracks, look for the opportunities. Ask questions about the solutions that you’re presented with that don’t seem to work”.

This week’s Radical Reformers guest is relational working pioneer, Helen Sanderson, known to us as a leading thinker, researcher and doer on person-centred working.

Helen talks about her work setting up Wellbeing Teams in places like Wigan and Thurrock and discusses her ongoing work with the Changing Futures Northumbria team, playing a pivotal role spreading the learning from the great work being done there.

This episode includes some very practical examples of what it takes to make person-centred support real. Spoiler alert – it takes a lot of commitment, a lot of effort and the bravery to “work out loud and share what you’re learning as you do it”.

As with all great minds, Helen flips the script and considers how we change the “what is the matter with you” conversation to “what matters to you”, to deliver services that make a real difference to people’s lives.

The episode is peppered with the names of some fellow radical reform rebels, so we’d be remiss not to mention them: Hilary Cottam, Mark Smith, Donna Hall and last week’s guest, Gary Wallace.

Radical Reformers is back! Listen in to Andrew Laird’s insightful conversation with relational working legend Gary Wallace, a public health specialist from Plymouth City Council.

In this episode, Gary comprehensively debunks New Public Management, highlighting its weaknesses and championing relational working. He shares his expertise on systems thinking, human learning systems, and the importance of creating a healthy system where all the bits of the system work together to support people.

Gary's approach to relational working is a masterclass in itself, offering valuable insights for public-facing practitioners, commissioners, and leaders.

Gary talks about making impactful change and continuous learning throughout this episode. Trying to make big changes can be daunting and seemingly impossible - so we thought it was really powerful when Gary said “Even if you can't change the way your service works, you can change the way you work as an individual.” And that’s where all great change starts really, isn’t it?