Man Up / Man Down

John-Paul Davies is an experienced therapist running a full-time private practice from his home in Cobham, Surrey. However, he made this change having worked as a solicitor in the City of London for the first half of his career.

While working in the legal profession, John-Paul began experiencing severe anxiety, so decided to seek therapy. Discovering the positive effect it had on him, John-Paul decided to train in psychotherapy and leave his law career behind.

John-Paul explained that there is greater awareness of mental health, and the symptoms associated with it, which means “therapy has less of a stigma and is more in the public consciousness.

Which means more and more men are seeking therapy.

However, the question remains, can you sustain the same lifestyle as a lawyer?

The golden cage is something we have discussed with several of our guests – who have left a well-paying career to find something more spiritually rewarding.

We discussed the injustice that therapy, nursing or most public services jobs are paid poorly compared to other careers, that mean a lot less for the greater human good.

John-Paul said that status, money and acquisition of resources are the primary drivers we’ve had since the development of mankind.

However, these drivers, aren’t as necessary for survival in modern society. This is one of the reasons why an increasing number of middle-aged men are coming to therapy. The constant hustle to be better than others, chasing the next ‘high’.

John-Paul said that rather than reacting to external sources, therapy helps you to understand yourself and find one’s true meaning and purpose in life.

We continued to discuss how men form opinions based on societal pressure and how therapists can help men in their middle age (and anyone) with an objective opinion.

We also discussed the fine line between, banter and bullying and how banter can be damaging to mental health.

Volker mentions a scene from the Tom Hanks film ‘Philadelphia’, where the main character says he changed his decision to come out as gay, after his senior colleagues made homophobic jokes in the sauna.

John Paul has published a self-help book, ‘Finding a Balanced Connection’ and has written about a range of wellbeing and psychological topics for various magazines and websites.

John-Paul also now has a YouTube channel and podcast, where he discusses how he made his career change, what life is like as a therapist and advice on a range of mental health and wellbeing issues.

If you want to find out more about John-Paul, click on the links below:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-paul-davies-30721330/

Website (contains social media links): https://www.thistrustedplace.co.uk/

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@JohnPaulDaviesTTP?si=1FJYkKV2hOzQ2IHA

Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2067601

Link to our LIVE EVENT in BRIGHTON on the 28th of November.

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This was a special episode as it was the very first time David and Volker had recorded an episode in the same room. But we also had four guests.

With us were Nathan and Gavin who run Talkclub in Haywards Heath. Talkclub is a about getting men together to talk and listen. This is an organisation that was set up (by another Gavin) after one of their friends committed suicide. Often, suicide can be prevented by simply talking. Of course, there are bigger issues and more underlying issues that play a role, but if men just store things up and don’t talk about their issues, then this isn’t helping their mental health at all.

We were also joined by Adam and Chris, two regular Talkclub members. Obviously, we don’t discuss any private issues they might normally discuss. Volker attended a session before, where he and others really opened up about things. However, our mission was to showcase how the session works, why Talkclub is beneficial and to remove a barrier of anyone attending any of the Talkclub sessions around the country.

If you don’t have Talkclub in your town, it’s easy to set up your own. You find all the information on the website www.talkclub.org – including a TED talk from one of the founders.

When the sessions happen, it is all about sharing how well you are feeling, between a zero and a ten. Volker reflected on how he opened up in front of some random blokes. Having a safe space where you can share anything good and bad that happened.

Chris and Adam were very kind to share their experience. They know each other well and are neighbours, and that’s not a problem. Also, they share things at the club rather than burdening their partners with problems they have, which means it can take pressure off a relationship.

Both Chris and Adam explained that the hardest step was pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and taking that step through the door. And while getting things of your chest is a form of therapy, Chris and Adam explained that they had become much more mindful and attentive listeners in all aspects of their lives.

Nathan explained that when the ‘universal group’ speaks about a big change, that’s when things usually change for men, and of course women as well. Whether that is the first child, or for all of us lockdown, which could be classified as a trauma for everyone if you wanted to see it that way. The uncertainty it created for everyone has a huge impact.

But it’s not about comparing oneself to others but to support each other. It’s not about trying to give advice to someone but just letting someone know that you have listened and “heard” what they are saying.

Talkclub is a place where you can find a community to talk and listen. You are part of it, but there is no competition or pecking order. It’s also free, whilst for a therapy session you have to pay. It’s about putting more tools in your toolbox to better cope with the everyday stress of life.

Please check out www.talkclub.org

If you are in the Haywards Heath area, please contact Nathan or Gavin via https://www.theunsaidspace.com/talkclub they meet on Wednesday nights.

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Ruth Devlin's career in the health and wellbeing sector started over 30 years ago as a registered nurse, training in Edinburgh. She is passionate about taking a holistic approach to health, which is reflected during talks or when giving treatments as a reflexologist.

She founded Let’s Talk Menopause in 2012 and works across all sectors providing informative talks. She is the author of a book entitled Men…Let’s Talk Menopause and regularly contributes on a variety of platforms, including radio & various podcasts.

Menopause is when women stop having their menstrual period, and technically begins 12 months after their last period. Essentially what happens is oestrogen levels decline leading to an imbalance of hormones. There is a hormone replacement therapy but that’s not for everyone.

There are 34 symptoms for the menopause, from sweating as though you have just come off a squash court within a few minutes (which is obviously highly embarrassing women if it happens in a public place, such as your place of work), to feeling more emotional.

However not all women suffer the same symptoms and they can differ in severity from one person to another – for example, some women don’t have any hot flashes at all.

It can also affect your tissues and therefore your vagina as well, resulting in less interest in sexual intercourse. That’s why Ruth wrote the book, which Volker has now read in preparation what might be coming his or any men's way.

The psychological impact of menopause cannot be underestimated. Ruth says its integral to be sensitive and not make fun of your partner when she’s experiencing symptoms. Showing understanding to a partner is important at any point, but particularly when the hormones are in imbalance.

From a workplace perspective, Ruth said companies need to have an inclusive culture to open the conversation about menopause. Many women are still at work aged 45-60 and additionally they might have older parents, teenage children whilst trying to keep their level of competency. This can prove a huge challenge, and workplaces are encouraged to support women.

There are too many stigmas associated with menopause and for women under 40 they might have a premature menopause, resulting in similar symptoms, yet often workplaces and partners aren’t aware of it. It’s important to adjust policies and ensure the support for women in the workplace. And it’s like any health issue, we need to speak more about this!

Important: Don’t compare symptoms of your wife’s menopause to your mate’s wife’s menopause down the pub – it’s different for everyone. Be kind.

Useful links:

https://www.letstalkmenopause.co.uk/

Free menopause diary

https://www.womens-health-concern.org/

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/

https://www.daisynetwork.org/

https://eveappeal.org.uk/

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Dan Flanagan is the Founder @ Dad La Soul - an award-winning social enterprise that exists to orchestrate a revolution in the way that the stories and struggles of the 6 million dads in the UK are seen, heard, and supported.

Dans’ career spans 20 + years working across a range of start-up and multinational media agencies, creating campaigns for brands including Barclaycard, LG (UK), The White Stuff, Cancer Research UK, and Disney.

 Having spent the last seven years in the not-for-profit sector, he is now a respected thought leader in the men's mental health and fatherhood field and was awarded Judges Choice at The Social Entrepreneur of the Year Index. 

Dad La Soul has invested more than ten thousand hours in partnering with tech innovators, co-working spaces, local authorities, university research teams, youth music charities and social housing providers to help tackle these issues from the inside out.  

Dan works for the cause and not the applause and won an award from Rishi Sunak. 

He grew up realising that men don’t look after their kids or weren’t given the chance to. There were no men and toddler groups, no men toilets with baby changing facilities and no children products saying ‘recommended by men’. 

That’s what Dan wanted to change. 

84 men under the age of 45 are lost to suicide each week, and one of the main reasons is that men don’t talk. This is one of the reasons why Dan set up Dad La Soul, but not as a self-help group but as a group to get men together to talk. 

Like the Men Shed (season 1) where men get together to fix things, and that’s when they start talking. That’s who we are. 

Dan used to take his kids to toddler groups or school, and he got a lot of funny looks. Dan said there were a lot of assumptions made, none of which that he was just a single dad – overhearing comments such as “he must have be a widower, as men work during the day.”

“There must be something wrong if a man goes to a toddler group, probably chasing after the yummy mummies.”  

David said that he had similar experiences being a stay-at-home dad – not always being openly welcomed to all the mum dominated environment.

Dan now runs dad and kids’ groups, of which, he says, 65% of men probably got pushed into the group by their partners, who see the benefits and gets some time off themselves.

Dan says the sessions involve It’s anything from robotic workshops to play dates, sometimes they play football or have a few (alcoholic and non-alcoholic) beers. It’s all about having a good time. Yet they also have the open conversations about substance abuse and grievance. The group ranges from people on benefits to 6 figure incomes.

Everyone is welcome!

The events take place monthly, currently in Worthing and Brighton. The frequency is going up and Dan is launching new locations in the next few months too. Payment is voluntary and no questions are asked whether you can or cannot pay. It’s all about the community.  

If you want to get involved either as a volunteer or just visit, go to the website or contact Dan ([email protected]); website: https://www.dadlasoul.com

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Gill Caleary's career spanned 18 years in the highly competitive realms of retail and airports. Throughout her journey, she worked in senior commercial position for various organisations such as M&S and group owned and independent UK airports.

As a female professional, she often found herself as the only woman at the table.

However, at the age of around 39, Gill experienced unavoidable internal turmoil marked by questioning, confusion, disconnect and a sense of suffocation in both her professional and personal life. Overwhelmed by these emotions, she reached a breaking  and calmly decided to deploy the emergency slide, exiting her established path, with no whistle, life vest or light for attracting attention.

However it wasn’t the instant relief she expected. She then totally fell apart - emotionally drained, burnt out, and mentally battered.

In this episode we discussed her journey - how hitting 40, resulted in her questioning what she was doing and her decision to work as a consultant, non - executive professional, and coach.

She guides and champions her clients through the process of confronting their own angst and success while fostering self - reflection, self - awareness, and the courage to be authentic. She realised that she was empty at the end of her days and ended up resigning.

However, instead of enjoying some time off, she fell into a big hole, not knowing what to do and had a real crisis of confidence. On the outside she hid her problems and kept up appearance, but her husband realised she was struggling mentally.

Traumatic experiences from her childhood had started to bubble up too. Gill found herself in a bad place, literally falling apart,not getting involved in anything, not wanting to leave the house. She then started therapy.

Gill realised that all her previous roles required an element of coaching and that she wanted to focus on this element and gain more qualifications.

While studying for her master, she felt imposter syndrome in a big way. So what is imposter syndrome?

Imposter syndrome can be lack of self-confidence, it could be self-doubt, but the key is that there is a profound fear of ‘being found out’. The feeling that someone might burst through the door and tell you ‘We found you out, your time is up’. There is an underlying belief that you don’t have the capability to do your job.

The challenge, David pointed out, is to quantify whether you have imposter syndrome and fear, or whether imposter syndrome is just ‘normal anxiety’ that we feel when we start a new job for instance.

As a coach, Gill is conscious to not label anyone and points out that it’s rare for two people explain imposter syndrome in the same way.

Gill says that there is still a huge challenge to get more people in the workplace to talking honestly about their feelings and mental health.

Gill says a very broad description or symptom of imposter syndrome can be typified as when

Someone notices the love for their job has gone and they feel a “wee bit sick of themselves”. Where the incongruence of being a leader and when you’ve got to where they got to isn’t working any longer, and something has to change.

If you feel like this could be you, feel free to get in touch or reach out to Gill via LinkedIn or her website.

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Hello all,

After a (we think) well deserved break, we are back with season 2!

A very exciting journey ahead, with lots of interesting guests and solo episodes lined up. 

Thanks for over 4,000 downloads of season 1.

First guest episode going live next week!

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This is the wrap up of Season 1 of Man Up / Man Down.

Thank you to all our guests. We had a lot of fun, and we now have big plans for Season 2.

Enjoy this episode and hear you again in September for Season 2.

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Albertina Fisher is the co-founder of Revive Sex and Relationship Therapy. Albertina specialises in psychosexual and relationship therapy, working with people from all backgrounds, sexual and gender orientations, relationship types, and disabilities.

She helps individuals and couples with sexual concerns and relationship issues.

Albertina has particular skills in working with sexual problems, including:

• Relationships where sex has stopped.
• Where there are differences in levels of desire.
• Conflicting sexual interests.
• Problems relating to sexual functioning, such as vaginal pain or erectile difficulties.

These issues often arise due to life changes, such as pregnancy, birth, bereavement, illness, and ageing. However, sometimes couples do not have any such specific problems, they just want to have better sex!

From Albertina’s point of view, it is better to discuss sex in correlation with a relationship, and have both partners in the therapy room at the time room. Usually there is something that doesn’t work, and that’s why men seek her advice. Whether that is erectile disfunction or premature ejaculation or where partners cannot reach the climax during sex.

Or partners have a different feeling about sex in the relationship and they cannot make it work without having someone like Albertina involved.

Albertina explains that sexual issues are down to pressure we put on ourselves, which kills the passion.

Women don’t necessarily come through penetrative sex, which puts pressure on the relationship. She explains there should be more ‘fun and relaxation’ in the bedroom and to just enjoy yourself more.

When couples first get together, they are happy to try new things out. However, as we get older, become complacent about our ‘sex routine’. Albertina says we also often have unrealistic expectations from pornography. So men have a fictional idea of the average size.

As with anything in life, we need to keep sex fresh. This becomes more difficult if both partners work hard, and as David suggested, pass each other like ships in the night. The conversation of ‘let’s try something new today’ is out of question if you barely have a chance to have any type of conversation.

Albertina explains that nothing is more important than sitting down in a relationship and discussing sex. Whether it’s a discussion around sex toys or expectations, whether it is watching porn together or making more time for each other. However, Albertina made it clear that she thinks scheduling sex isn’t an option.

Yet, she does suggest scheduling time for intimacy, but this doesn’t have to mean sex. This can be just spending time together, enjoying hobbies you used to enjoy, cuddling  on the sofa, cuddling naked on the bed without intercourse.

She said the trick is to take away any pressure and take a “see what happens approach.” She also explained that it’s rare that both couples feel desire at the same time but there is such a thing as responsive desire.

This involves creating an environment that fosters desire but again, it’s a balancing act between not creating pressure, managing expectation and seeing where it goes.

This approach helps you feel more like lovers than roommates living together.

However if you have very different sexual drives and tastes then that is something that definitely needs discussing with an expert if it’s significantly impacting the relationship.

Volker enquired whether he would still get it up at 90, and how sex changes from teenage sex to couple sex at 90. But we need to broaden the definition of sex, and understand that this can include everything from a stand up quicky in the kitchen to lying naked together without penetrative sex.

Volker mentioned at the end that as today’s society we can now get sex on demand via apps, e.g. location based buzzers to inform you that someone wanting sex is in the vicinity.

Obviously, a relationship is based on more than just sex, but how is this impacting future generations’ relationships?

You can find out more about Albertina and Revive Sex and Relationship Therapy here:

http://www.revivesexandrelationships.co.uk

Resources Albertina shared:

Websites and apps

https://amorus.net/

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/spicer-sex-ideas-for-couples/id1335558932

https://xconfessions.app/

https://mojo.so/about

https://www.omgyes.com/

https://www.dipseastories.com/

Ted talks

The secret desire in a long term relationship

The surprising truth about desire everyone needs to know

Books

Come as You Are: thebestselling guide to the new science that will transform your sex life: 1 (Come

As You Are, 1)

Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships

Mating in Captivity: How to keep desire and passion alive in long-term relationships

TV programmes

Sex, love and goop on Netflix

How to build a sex room on Netflix

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We met Matt Pattison when he put a post out about a course on mindful eating on Leapers. Matt is the founder of TEN - The Experience Network / Anatomy HCD & MeetingProof. He describes himself as:

• A Mentor/Consultant to many - mid-tier Managers to Vice Presidents/Board members. Primarily on matters of Design, Strategy and Entrepreneurship.
• A Chartered Human Factors specialist.
• A Presenter and Documentary film maker.
• An accomplished speaker for audiences of 50-2000 and stuff like that. 

David and Volker went through his programme to slow down their eating. The course, Slow the Fork Down, can be booked on Matt’s website with a 50% discount for Man Up / Man Down listeners.  Just follow the link.

• Take control of your relationship with food.
• No diets.
• No punitive rules.
• You are how you eat [not just what you eat].

Matt works a lot in design for medical devices and does consulting for bigger companies on how to utilise apps, and how to improve them. However, his real passion is about preventing diseases and how that can be done via apps.

As we discuss eating, we also discuss whether meal substitutes actually work and are healthy for us or not. We should slow down and need the chewing rather than just.

Matt also stopped caffeine, reduced his alcohol consumption, is an avid runner and it feels a bit like as if he is experimenting with things that improve his life, make it more mindful and then comes up with a design for it.

We have a vivid discussion on work life balance, and how we judge things differently as we are getting older. A realisation that we need more space, work less, being less stressed, drink less and look after us. We value family more and our connection to friends and family. As Matt points out we don’t put PPE on for our minds, but we probably should.

You can contact Matt on [email protected] or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattpattison/

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We welcome experienced founder and CEO, Ollie Henderson, who pivoted his career while juggling the pleasures and pressures of raising a young family. Living in North London with his 3 kids and family, he used to run a digital agency. That’s how Volker and Ollie got to know each other.

Finding he needed a change, he exited the business in 2020. Not knowing what he wanted to do, he started writing about what his life should look like. Having had several burn-outs, he decided that his life needed to be more balanced.

But that was easier said than done. The more Oli explored it, interviewing over 1,000 people for his book, Work/Life Flywheel: Harness the work revolution and reimagine your career without fear, he realised we can’t balance work and life. But that’s not what we should actually be aiming for. A bold statement. 

Oli believes that work and life need to work together and move things forward for both your career and your life. People need to see progress and how things move forward. 

People that are middle aged tend to contemplate changing their career, and question whether they are fulfilled in their job and the time they spend with their family. Does life look like you envisaged it growing up? Are you stuck in a rut doing what you feel you have to do? 

Ollie now works less but gets more done. Working flexibly, he works early mornings around his family. In his book he calls it ‘mindset’, thinking about what is important now and what does one want to achieve in the long run? 

And sometimes one needs to make a bold decision and to sacrifice family time for a big exit. But what is guaranteed in this world, and what is worth giving up? As David pointed out, we often end up in golden hand-cuffs. 

Ollie has a set routine in the morning where he doesn’t take meetings in the morning to get deep work done. By 12 pm he has worked a full day, which means anything he gets done in the afternoon is a bonus. Whilst Volker still loves his early mornings and works all the way through to 7 pm. He enjoys working, but it feels wrong doing that much work sometimes, but why not if you enjoy it?

As Ollie points out, he is now in charge of his week and therefore it makes it easier for managing his time and focusing on the important things, whether that is work or family; he is also a big napper, similar to Volker who couldn’t function without his lunchtime nap 🙂 

David pointed out that we might have more of our working life left than we have done already. We will be living a lot longer and the classic 3 stage life of education, work, retirement will not be the same anymore, living a multi-stage life. 

The book, ‘The 100 year life’, puts more emphasis on how our lives are changing as we live longer and we highly recommend reading it. Ollie also thinks that the CV is outdated and he discusses this extensively in his book.

Ollie's weekly newsletter and Top 10 Careers podcast, Future Work/Life, provides news and analysis to thousands of people interested in the future of work, covering subjects like creativity and innovation, data and technology, peak performance and workplace culture. 

He's the author of the Amazon bestseller, Work/Life Flywheel: Harness the work revolution and reimagine your career without fear. You can find him on LinkedIn.

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