Who is really creating a crisis over the debt ceiling and why? Congressman Mark Pocan takes listener calls on this issue and more.

Plus- Thom reads from 'State Capture: How Conservative Activists, Big Business, and Wealthy Donors Reshaped American States and the Nation'.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.