Trump bashed the pope and Vance said, I’m with you, Donnie. Ben riffs. Mark Wallace weighs in. Much political and theological discussion ensues. A distinction is drawn between Trump and Trumpism. That is, a distinction between a thoroughly despicable human creature and his thoroughly despicable I-got-mine ideology. The former is an embarrassment even to those who subscribe to the latter. Mark is a businessman and podcaster in Chicago.   

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