Frank Cirillo teaches both Kyokushin Karate and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in a town of 26,000 people. Here's how he built 250 students and achieved financial freedom by combining traditional and modern martial arts.

IN THIS EPISODE:

1. How Frank started teaching BJJ as a white belt because no instructor was available
2. Why combining hard-style karate with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu created unstoppable programs
3. The pricing mindset that transformed Frank's business after 18 years
4. How small-town dynamics actually work in favor of premium martial arts programs
5. Why parents said "it's about time" when Frank finally valued his expertise properly
6. The business advantage of being a multi-disciplinary martial arts expert

TRANSCRIPTION

George: Hey, it's George Fourie.

Welcome to another Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast.

So this episode is one of my favorite episodes to do, which is a bit of a blend of a case study, but then also a deep dive and getting to know some of our Partner members a bit better.

So, welcome to the call, Frank Cirillo.

How are you, Frank?

Frank: How are you, George?

Great to be here.

George: Awesome.

Cool.

So, I was just looking, we started working together back in October, and I wanted to bring you on.

You've had some great success and achieved some great milestones in your business, but I want to, I guess, have the conversation that we don't typically have on the calls and get to know the entire journey, how this all began and so forth.

So we can just kick it off right at the beginning.

Who is Frank Cirillo?

Frank: The deep question.

George: The deep one.

Frank: Well, mostly Frank is a family-orientated person.

Everything I do is for my family.

And now we've got a granddaughter in the mix who's a week old as well.

George: Congratulations.

Frank: Thank you.

Thank you.

That's a bit of a life changer right there.

When it comes to martial arts, I've been doing it.

I started kind of late because I started in my teens, and I've been doing it ever since: judo, karate, and then much, much later into my adult life, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

We are from an isolated area in country New South Wales.

So, it had its challenges as well.

The information that we sort of were taught from my past instructors was, I won't say limited, but it took a long time to get any updated information, which I was hell-bent on fixing when I took over; I was hell-bent on fixing that.

So lots and lots of travel and trying to work with some of the best in the country and overseas so I could bring, to become more well-rounded for myself and to be able to offer much better services, much better martial arts here in Griffith and surrounds.

And it's been a really long journey, but it's finally starting to pay dividends.

We didn't have any Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu anywhere near our area.

So that's a crazy story in itself.

Well, I don't know how many people out there, I'm sure there are, but there are instructors.

I went through two or three instructors till we found coach Anthony Perosh through a mutual friend.

He was fighting in the UFC at the time, and a mutual friend contacted him and then asked me to contact Anthony.

And he started off as we do as white belts, but we were instructing here as white belts as well and travelling back and forth to Sydney, following a syllabus, a little film clips, etc.

So yeah, it was very strange to be offering classes as a white belt, but there was no one here.

So we, there was a group of us, 10 or so people.

And what it is now is a whole bunch of us; like anyone that walks in now, they don't know the difference because we've got our black belts.

So no one asks anything now.

And now we have little kids' classes, intermediate classes.

I have an instructor who runs classes 50, 60 Ks out of town himself.

It's just been a real eye-opener that if you stick to things, it's amazing how things tend to pan out sooner or later.

And I'm so glad that we stuck it out.

It hasn't been easy.

It's been very hard out here and balancing two martial arts, very different from one another.

And they're hard, hard, hard martial arts.

I couldn't do it any other way after doing Kyokushin karate for so long.

It had to be something equally as hard and realistic.

That's really important to me.

Lifelong martial artist Daniel Jancek shares how fixing pricing and surrounding himself with growth-driven school owners helped him step away from his job and go all-in on his martial arts business.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• How a simple pricing mistake kept a 500-student school stuck.
• Why shifting from pay-as-you-go to real memberships created instant stability.
• The fear every school owner faces when raising tuition and what actually happened.
• How to identify the families who truly value your program.
• Why premium pricing increases commitment and reduces afterthought attendance.
• The power of building decisions inside a room of growth-driven school owners.

TRANSCRIPTION

George: Hey, it's George Fourie.

Welcome to the Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast.

Today, I am with Daniel Jancek.

How are you, Daniel?

Daniel: Good, George.

How are you?

George: Good.

Did I say Jancek?

Did I say it in the proper accent?

All right, cool.

So I'm going to give a brief intro, but I'm going to let Daniel tell the story.

This is sort of a cool part where I get to interview people that are in the Partners group.

We tell a bit of a case story, but I also get to chat about things that just probably don't just come up in conversation.

So it's a great opportunity for me to get to know Daniel better and just talk about his journey in martial arts.

They've had great success in martial arts over the last year, especially going full-time.

So we'll dive a bit deeper into that.

But yeah, welcome to the call, Daniel.

I appreciate it.

Daniel: So thanks for having me.

George: Cool.

So I guess just start right at the beginning for those of you that don't know who you are.

Just give us a bit of background on you, your journey, martial arts, and where you got started.

Daniel: Yeah, No, love to.

So yeah, I basically was a bit of an energetic kid.

I suppose you could say when I was really young, I had a lot of energy that I needed to release.

I'm a little bit aggressive at times.

I was not the most well-behaved kid.

So I got into football at a really young age when I was four years old.

And when I was about five and a half, yeah.

My mom and dad thought it'd be really good to get me into martial arts once a week.

So I brought a newsletter home from school.

It was like a newsletter pamphlet drop that I got in school.

I took that home to Mom and handed that to her and went for our first lesson.

And yeah, really never looked back.

So I'm 35 now.

Well, yeah, going close to 36.

It's been a good 30 years that I've been doing martial arts nonstop for.

I started as a five-and-a-half-year-old kid that thought it looked pretty cool.

I liked the logo.

That's what sort of got my attention.

It was a boxing kangaroo.

The rest is history.

Tom Lowe grew Horizon Taekwondo from 40 to 250 students after a year-long plateau at 200. In this episode we discuss how he broke founder-dependency, and rebuilt the school with stronger systems and support.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• The long plateau around 200 students and what helped shift momentum again
• The identity change required to stop doing everything alone
• How building an instructor team opened space for growth and balance
• How conversations with other school owners fast-tracked decision-making and confidence
• The value of shared insight from a community of school owners facing similar growth milestones

TRANSCRIPTION

George: Hey, it's George Fourie.

Welcome to another Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast.

So today I've got a guest with me that we've probably got a long overdue catch up.

We have been working together for around four years, I think I looked earlier, since about August 2021.

So Tom's come a long way with Horizon Taekwondo.

And yeah, we just want to go back on the journey.

How it all started, who Tom is, and where he's at right now in his martial arts journey.

So welcome to the call, Tom.

Tom: Thanks George, nice to be here.

George: Good stuff.

So we've got to start at the beginning.

Who is Tom Lowe?

Tom: I'm Tom from Adelaide in South Australia.

I've got a wife and two kids; one's 10, one's 3.

And I've been running my own martial arts club for about four and a half years now.

George: Four and a half years, cool.

So we didn't actually then start working; we started working together pretty soon after you opened up, right?

Tom: Yes, correct.

George: Cool.

Okay.

So let's, before we jump into the business and the nuts and bolts, give us some context.

Like how did the martial arts journey happen?

What made you decide on going ahead with the school?

Getting martial arts leads but they keep disappearing? You're not alone. Most martial arts school owners blame "tyre kicker" leads, but the real problem is your follow-ups. Here’s the exact automation system that fixes it.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• Why calling leads "tyre kickers" kills your martial arts business growth
• The 60-second automation system that stops lead ghosting
• How Amanda turned 11 martial arts leads into 7 premium signups ($83 cost per student)
• The martial arts marketing follow-up sequence that works across email, SMS, and voicemail
• Why Facebook's Andromeda algorithm changes affect your martial arts school ads
• The content strategy that creates higher-quality martial arts leads

TRANSCRIPTION

The world of martial arts marketing, marketing your martial arts school.

So let's say you're running ads at the moment; it could be through Facebook, through Google.

They typically take a different pathway or a different strategy.

So maybe we'll lean into Facebook for now.

But regarding leads in general, let's say you are running a campaign and you've got lead enquiries coming in and they just ghost you.

So you're all excited, you get a lead notification, see the phone number, and perhaps you pick up the phone and call them.

No answer.

You try to message them.

No answer.

So what's the deal?

Are all these leads just notoriously bad?

Is it just a distraction?

Is it too hard to get hold of people?

I'm recording this close to December right now.

Are people just more distracted than ever, and it's hard to get hold of them?

Or are they just all the leads, martial arts leads, just tyre kickers?

There are a few things that we can consider here.

And if you are in the scenario where you're getting leads and they are ghosting you, there are a few things that could be wrong.

Number one, I think I want to address the mindset around leads.

And a lot of times I hear school owners talk about how leads are tyre kickers, and it's not typically their fault.

Because let's say you're running a campaign and you've got one lead notification, two, three, four, and you can't get hold of anybody.

And four leads in, all of a sudden your entire mindset is shifted.

You feel here's another time waster.

Why Facebook’s latest update is changing how martial arts ads really work, and what school owners can do to stay ahead without relying on agencies.

 IN THIS EPISODE:

• How Facebook’s Andromeda update reshapes martial arts ad targeting and what you should do first.
• Why your content strategy has become your new targeting system.
• The unseen cost of having no control over your Facebook ads.
• How building martial arts ad campaigns “from the mats up” can lift your results fast.
• Adapt your martial arts marketing as AI starts guiding ad targeting.
• And more.

TRANSCRIPTION

If your martial arts Facebook ads are tanking right now, then listen up.

This is for you.

Welcome to the new Facebook algorithm update.

Now, you might have been seeing fluctuating ads all your life.

This is a little different though.

This is very different, and I urge you to pay attention to this Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast episode because I'm going to be going through what's changed, what's different, and how you should be approaching this from the ground up, all the way from your organic social media strategy all the way through to your ad campaigns.

So it's definitely time to not bury our heads in the sand anymore and depend on other people to just press all the buttons for us.

It's got to start from the ground up.

So this episode, I'm going to be covering what's different, what's changed, and how we are going about it with our martial arts school and our clients and helping them elevate their ad campaigns from the ground up.

Let's get stuck in.

So first up, a little bit of context.

I saw this update release back in December, and initially it was just for e-commerce brands, and so I didn't really pay much attention to it.

Almost all martial arts school owners are disappointed with their agencies or have a horror story to share. Here’s how I see both sides of the story

IN THIS EPISODE:

• The flawed martial arts agency model of overpromising.
• The unrealistic "microwave expectations" about martial arts marketing.
• The power of the marketing-to-mats feedback loop.
• The strategic mindset shift from focusing on cost to focusing on return.
• The advantage of an "open book" martial arts marketing approach.
• And more.

TRANSCRIPTION

I want to talk about everything that, in my opinion, is wrong with martial arts marketing.

This is coming from two sides, from both sides: the agency model, the delivery, the expectations that get promised in the market space, and then on the flip side, how it's perceived and the expectations from martial arts school owners of what it is and what it's not.

And then there's the inevitable hamster wheel of disappointment that it just never seems to escape.

So, who has not had a bad experience with an agency?

Everybody talks about how their agency sucks and they're terrible.

Is this true?

Yes and no.

I feel it's on both sides.

Now, in my last videos and a few things that I've distributed, I've mentioned my dislike for the traditional agency model.

And I'll tell you a little story.

Here's where this started.

This is now going back. Oh, it's got to be at least five or six years ago.

I always feel like I get timelines wrong.

Behind-the-scenes of 15 cash-boosting martial arts marketing strategies inside Martial Arts Media™’s Partners community, and how you can get access.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• Timetable efficiency that actually simplifies martial arts marketing.
• The secret to using AI that goes far beyond simple social media posts.
• A simple conversation framework designed to dramatically increase your sales.
• How a single, non-marketing element of your school can make all your marketing and sales easier.
• A powerful campaign that can generate a massive cash injection for your school in just a few days.

TRANSCRIPTION

I just finished uploading a video for our private clients in our Partners group and I thought, "Hang on, maybe this will be useful for you to check out."

So, for a little bit of context, if you've been following me for a while, you know I talk about Partners, our community where we help martial arts school owners grow with their marketing.

If this is your first time tuning into the podcast, I've been working with martial arts school owners for just over 13 years.

I've helped more than 400 martial arts schools generate more than 25,000 trials.

And so, we've got a lot of resources, tools, and strategies that have worked and been refined over the years.

So, I was going through our members' portal.

The goal was to do a bit of pruning, see what's been working well, who's watched which resources, and also plan for a few sessions coming up next month.

Now, as it stands right now, there are 139 courses and playbooks, but those are layered with multiple sessions inside those 139 sessions.

I was going through and I found 15 sessions from about the last year that are just real moneymakers.

If you implement those, they're going to bring massive results to your martial arts school.

And so, I wanted to bring them to life in case some of our members missed them or they weren't on the live calls.

I just did a quick video breaking them down, what they are useful for, and where they can be used.

And I thought, "Well, hang on, why don't I just share this with you?"

So, depending on where you're watching this video, if you go to martialartsmedia.com/159, that's the number 159, it'll take you to this episode, and I'm going to include that video breakdown about Partners in that video.

Why most martial arts school owners are struggling with Facebook ads, the influence of AI, and how to take back control of your results. 

IN THIS EPISODE:

• What’s really changed with Facebook ads for martial arts schools
• The downside and power of AI 
• The agency trap that keeps school owners stuck and returning to zero
• A 5-step framework to improve your ads from offer to follow-up
• The pitfall of not aligning your martial arts marketing strategy
• And more

*Bring 50 Enrollments Into Your Martial Arts School Every 90 Days Need help growing your martial arts school? Watch Training + Take The Assessment

TRANSCRIPTION

Do Facebook ads still work for martial arts schools?

Or has that ship now sailed?

Maybe, maybe not.

Well, I want to dive into what I see is working, what's not, and the challenges that are coming up in the market space right now.

It's not necessarily just ads; it's market sophistication and a whole lot more.

So, let's jump in.

First up, do Facebook ads still work?

100% yes.

Where's the problem there?

Why are costs going through the roof?

Why are results tapering down?

Why is it harder to get hold of people when you get leads?

And then when you get leads, why is it even harder for them to show up?

The truth of the matter is, market sophistication has evolved.

And as times change, we have to level up.

So, there are a few things that I see are making a big impact in the market space right now.

First up, let's talk about the big one: AI.

AI is magic.

How Australian Martial Arts Academy's head instructor turned chronic fatigue into a leadership edge - driving growth and retention at a top-tier school.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• The Belt-By-Belt Recovery Story That Changed Mark’s Life (And His Students')
• Walking Away From Medicine To Pursue The Martial Path Full-Time
• The Hidden Energy Technique That Helps You Show Up Big—Even When You’re Running On Empty
• How Teaching On Crutches Inspired A Wave Of Black Belts To Keep Going
• The Sales Strategy That Works As Well In A Kids Class As It Does On The Phone
• And more

*Need help growing your martial arts school? Apply Here.

TRANSCRIPTION

George: Hey, it's George Fourie. Welcome to another episode of the Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast. So, today I'm speaking with Mark Loughran from the Australian Martial Arts Academy.

So, episode 156—155—I’d been chatting to Hakan, Hakan Manav, and Mark’s name dropped in there quite a few times. So I thought I’d bring the man on himself to have a chat about 18 years in martial arts. 

He’s also one of the head instructors at the Australian Martial Arts Academy, and one of our featured speakers at the Partners Intensive that’s coming up in June, depending on when you listen to this.

But with that said, welcome to the call, Mark.

Mark: Thank you very much. Great to be here. 

George: Good stuff.

We've only just recently met as well. So I'm going to take this as a blank canvas and a conversation just to tap into your genius, the things that you do. So if we had to start from the beginning, who's Mark, how did you get into the industry? Let's go from there.

Mark: Yeah, that's a really interesting story, actually. My journey into the martial arts industry started as a recovery piece. Flashback to 2005, I was graduating high school.

So, that makes me feel like I’m starting to get old now, everyone I’m teaching was born after that year. Flashback to that time, I graduated high school and got presented with a couple of opportunities.

One was from my parents. They said, “If you want to go further and study at university, you can do that,” because my dad worked as a Deputy Vice Chancellor at James Cook Uni. I grew up in Townsville, in Far North Queensland.

And they said, “If you want to go to university here, go for it. Stay at home, it’s free, all good.”

And they said, but if you want to go away, pay for it yourself. And that was the deal. My brother had the same deal.

He was a couple of years older than me. And he got himself a full scholarship to Melbourne uni. And he was like, Townsville was too hot.

I did the exact same thing, except I went to UNSW. So I've got a scholarship to study medicine at UNSW and went down there, started that journey and ended up getting really sick towards the end of my first year with glandular fever. 

And there was a whole piece of trying to identify what was going on there, because I was really sick for quite a long time. I ended up with chronic fatigue syndrome, which I still have now, 19 years on.

And I still battle that every single day. My sort of path into martial arts started about a year after I got really sick with that. I ended up bed-bound for one to two years.

Part of my recovery, actually, I should backtrack a little bit. I was doing high-level athletics at a national level at that time as well. I used to play A-grade tennis and represented Queensland in different sports when I was in high school.

I was always an athletic person. And then, for someone to go from that to completely bed-bound, it was a big change and a big struggle. So part of my recovery from that was, there is no treatment.

It's just management. Try and do some exercise. What have you never done? And so I thought, Oh, I've never tried martial arts, always been interested.

Following up on Episode 155, Hakan Manav shares martial arts staff development strategies to build a high-performing team - giving you the freedom to scale and grow.

IN THIS EPISODE:

• How to transition from solo instructor to building a scalable team

• The first hire that can make or break your martial arts school's growth

• Why letting go is essential for business expansion and instructor success

• A proven framework for training and promoting instructors from within

• How to turn parents and adult students into valuable team members

• And more

INVITATION: If you’d like more info about working with me in and Hakan in Partners Mentor, Just message me ‘Mentor’ on Facebook and I’ll send the details over in a doc (no sales call required) Send Message On Personal Profile >

TRANSCRIPTION

George: Hey there, it's George Fourie. Welcome to another Martial Arts Media™ Business Podcast. So, this week I've got Hakan back on the call. Good day Hakan.

Hakan: Hey George.

George: In the previous episode 155 and you can check that out if you haven't, martialartsmedia.com/155. We spoke about the four obstacles that Hakan and his family overcame over the last 43 years to build their 1800 student strong academy.

And so this week we thought we would dive deeper into these obstacles. Thanks for jumping on again, Hakan.

Hakan: Pleasure to be here. Thank you

George: We spoke a little bit about the product. We spoke about staff development, personal leadership. Let's loop into staff development for this call. Let's just dive a bit deeper and look at the things to watch out for. 

Why should we even be doing it? Which direction to take when scaling your school? 

Hakan: Absolutely. Once the product is nailed and you've got a great thing people are coming back for in terms of the actual martial art that you're teaching. The next step we want to think about is how we can deliver this at scale. For a number of reasons? 

First of all, we love what we do. But there are days that we might feel ill or we might want to go on holiday, or we're going to be away for various reasons. So you need the classes to be running at the same acceptable standard.

So we've got those obvious reasons, but I want to touch on a personal experience that we went through as an academy. I'm going to say about 25 years ago now.