MAVEN

We don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we're doing? In this episode we talk about VISIBILITY and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance and also, quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you are focusing on the right priorities and initiatives. You should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one people think of when needing help! We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;11 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle.

00;00;28;15 - 00;00;58;22 We don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on. Why and when do we let others know about what we're doing? In this episode, we're talking visibility and why this topic is important for many people in advancing their careers, being recognized for great impact and performance, and also quite possibly even more importantly, to ensure you're focusing on the right priorities and initiatives, you should expect that not everyone will be able to recognize or see your value unless you have intentionally put yourself out there to be the one they think of when they need help.

00;00;58;25 - 00;01;17;23 Listen in as we discuss how to be consistent, lead by example, and drive change with both yourself and your organization. We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;17;24 - 00;01;26;28 David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, good morning.

00;01;27;20 - 00;01;38;04 Morning, Chris. I am so excited to get talking on this topic. Right. And is really making this stand out to everybody because it's about visibility.

00;01;39;01 - 00;01;56;28 Visibility, how to be seen. How do you want to be seen how do you not want to be seen? That's a good one. So this is coming off the heels of our last one where we were talking about networking, and I think close to that was relationship and this one's visibility. So what do you got, David?

00;01;58;04 - 00;02;19;20 You know, Chris, I think there is a lot of people run into this challenge is that you're working your tail off, you're working 80 hours a week. You know, you're getting all these things done, you're closing all these deals, you're delivering all these results. Yet No one, you're not getting rewarded for it. You're not being recognized for it. You're you feel like you're not being compensated for it.

00;02;20;01 - 00;02;26;09 Well, sometimes the root cause of this is you have no visibility. No one knows what in the world you're doing.

00;02;27;27 - 00;02;51;08 That's a fact. I mean, those are the things that you really need to understand as far as why you're doing. It's one thing. Well, first of all, nobody should be doing 80 hours a week, but you got it. Context extra effort, putting in time. What you need to understand is where you're putting the time and how it's driving impact to the greater good, to the business, to the organization.

00;02;51;08 - 00;03;07;04 To the team or what have you. And then making sure that not only do people know about it for updates and the relevance of how it ties back into those goals, those organizational goals. But more importantly, from an individual perspective, how do you acknowledge your performance and how you're contributing?

00;03;08;06 - 00;03;35;19 Absolutely. You know, I think as you think about how many companies like Oracle or Google and many others be used in OKRs, you know, objective objectives and key results. Right. So you say, okay, it's about results as impact Now, if your results and impact are not visible, if they're not clear, if they're not documented, if they're not evangelized, if they're not shared, then how can it really how can it be a measurable result?

00;03;35;25 - 00;03;50;20 How can it be a major impact? Right. And so I think this is sometimes the kind of art and science of sometimes, you know, having great careers and great performance is thinking about not just about what you do, but also how you share it.

00;03;52;04 - 00;04;18;22 It's good Segway. So how you share it. So it's it's it is, of course, what you're doing. It is, of course, why you're doing it. But if you're not letting people know whether they're on the team or not, depends on the relationship, which we talked about, how you're connecting with others on the relevance So if you're working with a virtual team, things that we already know is the best practices, you're going to work with the team and communicate effectively to be able to give the team updates.

00;04;18;29 - 00;04;44;24 Here's what I'm doing Maybe we're talking a little bit about that. Maybe we're more focused on, again, the the way that you're perceived in others and providing the value. And so you can not necessarily get the credit for credit sake, but be acknowledged for the work that you're putting in that's contributing to these factors that eventually lead to some of the things that we're talking about, contributing to those OKRs, contributing to the goals, contributing to the team.

00;04;45;12 - 00;05;02;00 But then when it comes to performance, it comes to performance management It comes to recognition for that performance and in compensatory reasons or promotion periods and things like that, it's, it's, it's all working together so as necessary.

00;05;02;21 - 00;05;22;09 I agree. 100%. And I think sometimes I get stuck with a basic, you know, and best practice is that everything you do should be documented. Right. So I think it's like, let's go back to our military days, right? Everything you perform, right? You you have checklists, you have tasks, you have missions, right? And everything. There is a result and it's documented.

00;05;22;18 - 00;05;42;26 It's not just kind of, you know, past my mouth, right. Or, you know, kind of tribal songs and things like that. You documented it is documented for a reason, a so that people can actually learn from it, you know, be you can measure and evaluate the results and see how people can be recognized, rewarded, you know, acknowledged for great work.

00;05;43;06 - 00;05;50;13 And sometimes it's not just about what others do. It's about how you initiate it. Right. And it becomes part of your practice.

00;05;51;29 - 00;06;17;12 Right. I think that's a that's another key point here. And as basic basic fundamentals I guess, is the way to kind of illustrate the key components, how do you initiate it? One, probably goes down and do a conversation of this is the beginning of a fiscal year, the beginning of a project or beginning of an idea. Hey, I'm thinking about doing this.

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;37;15 What are your thoughts? And you're pulling people in and now you're beginning to pass the ideas back and forth. You're sharing some pads that can be taken for these types of things, and then you're trying to find and identify, well how many resources are going to be necessary for these types of things, how much work is involved, what are the costs?

00;06;38;03 - 00;07;09;28 What are some of the restrictions and some of the elements that or the the variables that we need to consider before we get into that? Because that also is a way that you're being able to express the depth of your thoughts or your skills and your ability to know how to bring in others to help accomplish the goals, which is a factor like today in today's world where there's a lot of hybrid activities in these certain careers, where many years ago it was very niche, very specific.

00;07;09;28 - 00;07;31;19 Now, you know, the workforce is looking for people that have a diverse skill set that contributes in a much broader way for the team or the organization. So initiating how you initiate is part of that disability. It's saying, Well, this person seems to have a good, deeper understanding of our business needs in our business. Let's talk more.

00;07;32;21 - 00;07;51;21 I think, Chris, you bring up a great point is and maybe sometimes the soft skills, right, to a degree. So I think is that, you know, certainly a high tech sector we see this is you can have great technical skills, but you also need to have a soft skills, things like in a communication presentation. But this is things that fall into visibility, right?

00;07;52;01 - 00;08;09;12 You may be the best developer in the world. You may be the best lessee. Machinist, right. You may be the best engineer. Yet, if you don't know how to communicate to these things, you don't know how to share these things. Right. Those are the soft skills. And this is what holds back a lot of people sometimes in their careers, right?

00;08;09;13 - 00;08;30;05 In their performance, you know, in their recognition of the results. You know, those things and this is something that we really want to, you know, courage to think about you. Now, some ways, I think that, you know, I know we have, you know, probably thousands of non veteran military listeners to our podcast. Some people like are David, I don't I don't want to follow your military methods.

00;08;30;05 - 00;08;52;15 We don't have that in our company. But I say, well, where do you start? So sometimes you start with very simple things. Going back to a topic that we've mentioned a few times here, and our podcast is networking, right? You know, never eat lunch alone. Never have coffee alone, right? Yes. Sometimes build your network and show their network on the results if they're not secret and proprietary, you know, you know, to your company.

00;08;52;15 - 00;09;07;12 But like in your network inside your company and broader issue chair, look what we did. You know, look at the results here. Look at this. And the impact right in sharing it. And eventually you can start to build and grow that network and natural recognition and visibility can come from that.

00;09;09;01 - 00;09;34;06 That's a good point. It it it just goes to show how important networking is through the networking. It builds the connections to be able to establish yourself and your maybe your reputation or your skill set precedes you. But everybody understands better about what you're able to offer. And now I mean, I think this is the we're talking about the very beginning phases of visibility is to say, do people want you working with them?

00;09;34;28 - 00;09;56;12 How are you presenting yourself? And some of those things you just thought you just talked about, right? You introduced how you communicate everything begins with communicating, whether it's the written verbal doesn't matter. There's all of these indicators. You're saying, well, this person is giving me the impression that they know what they're doing. They know how to do it.

00;09;56;27 - 00;10;15;09 And that in itself, the work that you're doing is a form of communication, if you will, because now it's going to be word of mouth. And so I think that reputation that's built off of successful accomplishments to include some failures, I mean, we we know that we want to fail because that's the test I'm saying. Is it going to work or not?

00;10;15;21 - 00;10;43;15 We just need to understand how to fail. You know, I think the one thing that we understand most and you just talked about it was civilians or military veteran affiliated communities matters less. The whole idea is, well, when I have these skills, how do I communicate my skills to make them relevant to the topic or to the others that are looking for these type of skills to be included in that team dynamic or in that team discussion is is somebody that we want to be a part of the team.

00;10;44;07 - 00;10;53;28 So I'll park it here. But the transferable skills, how do I communicate what I've done in order to have the proper visibility of what I'm capable of doing and how I'm going to contribute?

00;10;55;08 - 00;11;25;18 Yeah, Chris, to build on a little bit, thinking about it's you know, I'm a big fan of Crawl, Walk, Run, right? You know, and starting things. I feel like, well, this doesn't, you know, culture does not exist in my company. We do. No one else does this well, sometimes I would say lead by example, right? Many companies, whether using Slack or Microsoft teams or KUDO boards and things like that, even though it's not necessarily given yourself kudos, it's maybe in giving others kudos lead by example, start in building that culture.

00;11;25;18 - 00;11;47;19 Right. And you know, many other people saying that, wow, I saw, you know, Jane, Doe doing some great work. I want to recognize and call it out in encouraging others over time. Right. How becomes part of your team and company culture and then it gets easier, easier for people to be visible, easier for them to kind of share in a results, easier for people to be recognized for that.

00;11;47;19 - 00;11;52;07 So I think that's one thing that we always ask and recommend people lead by example.

00;11;54;15 - 00;12;23;06 No, that's that's a great example and that's a great example of how to be seen without putting the spotlight on you. And sharing credit, advocating for others my personal opinion is the proper way. I think at some point we all need to understand that everybody sees what's happening. I don't think there's a lot of people that are fooled or tricked into thinking that somebody else is doing the work.

00;12;23;27 - 00;12;50;25 And the one that actually did it isn't going to get the credit. I think everybody over time is going to be able to see that the ones that did the work are the ones that are probably the most quiet in a humble way. Right? Not necessarily literally quiet, but it's just a matter of understanding that they're you know, they're silently acknowledging that they contributed, but they're more focused on giving the accolades to the team.

00;12;51;08 - 00;13;18;04 That way, everybody else is getting seen as being able to deliver and so I think that there's another part of the visibility component you have to really understand. You know, there's there's self advocating and then there's self when you how would you say it? Self gratifying, maybe, you know, where there's going to be a time and a place where you're going to have to explain your accomplishments in that setting.

00;13;18;04 - 00;13;32;07 It's because somebody is literally assessing whether or not you're going to be able to meet the expectations before they bring you in to start something with them that's not the same as what we're talking about. It's this is becoming now your footprint.

00;13;33;18 - 00;13;50;24 Yeah. Chris, building up on that right is I think there's always way to start things very easy and early, you know, whether regardless of your role, like with your manager, you know, very simple. I've learned this maybe you know, 15, 20 years ago, right? Is like every week you know is that your manager manager may not want it or not.

00;13;50;24 - 00;14;13;01 Right. You say, hey you write three to five bullets, hey, this is what I got done this week. This is what I'm going to do this week. And whether you're managing replies to it cares about it every single week you say, here's what I got done this week. And over time you'd be surprised everyone that of how addicts give that mail, that sort of accomplishments well will become to your manager and sometimes your skip levels and others.

00;14;13;07 - 00;14;34;04 Right. And then you can build upon that. Right? And I can't recommend this even more, you know, to to anyone. It's amazing is that once you build a rhythm, you know, a music beat, if you will, are drum beat, right? People will very quickly become addicted to it, start marching to it, no pun intended. And I can say also building upon a little bit is I've been writing for many people that know me.

00;14;34;04 - 00;14;52;03 I write what's called the weekly dossier you know, the status mail newsletter. No, because people delete those. But I read the dossier, whether anyone reads it or not, I write it. Every company I've been at. Right. And eventually people start to follow and they want to know what's going on, you know, what they accomplish, what the results, what they said, just go read the dossier.

00;14;52;13 - 00;15;02;29 But people amazingly will start marching to your music and your drumbeat when you start it. It won't happen overnight. It won't happen in one week to week, three weeks. It may not happen for a couple of months.

00;15;03;12 - 00;15;13;19 And that is actually an interesting dynamic so it's a matter of understanding. Well, why why would you do that one? I'm assuming you do that because you love to do it, right?

00;15;14;00 - 00;15;32;21 I do it not so much at first. What, Nick? Actually, I'll be open and honest if I go back many years ago, people. What in the world are you doing, David? What are you getting done? What are your team doing right And so I initially I did to solve a problem, right? But over time, you know, I've managed large organizations.

00;15;32;21 - 00;15;50;25 It's about what is your team doing? And so those of us in a cybersecurity, people know that security is always a black box. Right. And no one knows what in the world you guys are doing. Why we're paying you so much. Why do you have so many people? Well, we start doing some things and making it open. People get to you know, are quite thankful for it.

00;15;50;25 - 00;16;14;02 And they recognized, well, why do we have this team So I think it evolved for me over time. But I realized that just like especially, you know, the other point of distributing organizations around the world, hybrid organizations, you know, people working remotely, you've got to overcommunicate. Otherwise, there is no visibility if we're not in the same office. Chris, how in the world do I know what in the world you're doing?

00;16;14;29 - 00;16;50;16 Yep. And that's that's where it intersects because, you know, to do to do something for a personal preference because it's love it it's what you love to do. And then when it becomes sort of depended on, I guess you can say dependent upon now people expected yeah. I guess the challenge would be now it becomes more laborious and there's a temptation now to to have an expectation to where some people if it's not sincerely or organically something they want to do, that consistency begins to fade because now it's an expectation.

00;16;51;08 - 00;17;00;28 But in your experience, David, when you when you when you do that, what do you think is the number one driver for you to continue to write your dossier?

00;17;02;07 - 00;17;20;18 Well, from myself is the fact that more and more people sign up to read it and receive it every week or so. That's an insight in itself. But I'll give you going back to another element, as you mentioned, about, you know, careers, performance, you know, performance review cycles. I go, oh, what in the world did I do this year?

00;17;21;07 - 00;17;40;14 Should I be exceeded should be outstanding, right? Or whatever. What do I write down? Well, you know, if you had a nice little record of a weekly mail that you wrote every week or a couple of bullets every single week of all your accomplishments for the year, it gets really, really easy to write your performance review for the year because you've already documented everything.

00;17;40;18 - 00;17;43;20 Now just cut and paste. Believe it or not, it can be that simple.

00;17;44;20 - 00;18;18;24 Got it. And that's that's what I was going for because it's there's a duality in it. You're it's self-serving, but it's not self centered, right? You're doing it because it's going to provide value down the line and noting, documenting or updating, you know, in whatever form, whether it's writing it in a notebook and then eventually transposing it into digital format or if you're taking notes digitally, all of those things carry into that as an opportunity for us to understand maybe what you're thinking, you know, anybody out there wondering, well, I want to do it, but what's the point?

00;18;18;25 - 00;18;40;09 Well, the point should begin with you. You're doing it for you. And the whole point is it matters less what other people think. The second is, if you're going to do that and then you're going to share it with others, Then what we talked about is you have to be effective with it and then tailor it to the needs of the audience where it provides a perceived value and that value.

00;18;40;10 - 00;19;09;24 David gave a good example in his area of the industry. It's very specific. Security is no joking matter. So you have to make sure that you're still abiding by the facts or the the common issues that will help others understand it while you're doing it for you. And make it relevant. Even though, you know, like David was saying, there's things that sometimes people will read or won't read, but it's there if they need it.

00;19;10;03 - 00;19;27;22 I think that's the key especially when you're putting in the effort and you're working with others. And there is going to be a need at some point to understand what's going on, to be truthful we don't need to know what's going on 100% of the time, but 100% of the time we need to know what's going on, if that makes sense.

00;19;27;22 - 00;19;31;02 We just have to pick our times. And when we're looking for those updates.

00;19;32;07 - 00;19;58;23 You're spot on. Chris, I'd like to bring up another point on, you know, sometimes being visible, you know, kind of documenting things, sharing it is some some people actually may fear this, but it's actually one of the most important things is if you're not visible and you're not sharing it and being public about it, then you often can miss what you may be doing wrong or that you may be working on the wrong things or you may be focused on the wrong priorities.

00;19;59;10 - 00;20;18;28 And when you're overly visible about things, it's really easy to get feedback in people. We will not say, no pun intended, they'll attack it. Right. Those are things you want to know about can you imagine? We've seen people throughout their careers is that, hey, they're working on something for three or six months and then time comes to review cycle or other things.

00;20;19;15 - 00;20;37;20 Chris, why in the world are you working on that? No one wants that. And it's well, well, why don't you tell me? I had no idea that's what you're doing, wasting your time on that. And those are so important, right? It's just like mistakes. You want to be open about it, you want to learn from it, but you want people that are very quickly saying you're focusing on the wrong things.

00;20;37;27 - 00;20;48;13 These are the wrong priorities. Why is your attention not you know, when you're focused on X, you want that invite in by being visible at this, it can be a major asset to you.

00;20;49;09 - 00;21;23;26 That's it. So I couldn't help myself there habits, right? If you're the habits of what you do and that's what people see in that consistency, then it becomes more transparent. It becomes easier for others to understand what what's missing. And so if they if they see that there's constant if there's information that's constantly being put out there, that's giving the opportunity to assess the activity in any relationship.

00;21;23;26 - 00;21;53;15 I don't care if it's family or professional or in matters less. I mean, I don't know how many types of other relationships there would be, but it has it depends on the ability to to to communicate effectively if the visibility is going to be key and how you're going to be viewed, then I think from your example where I couldn't help, it is be the habit that means do it consistently, do it sincerely, and then you'll be seen, right?

00;21;53;16 - 00;22;08;10 This is visibility. You'll be seen as somebody that has the discipline to continue and the willingness to receive input because you're putting the information out there, it appears that you'd be willing to receive information that can help everybody be better.

00;22;09;22 - 00;22;29;13 Absolutely. You know, I think is like I know Chris, you're probably, you know, followers on a number of people on TikTok and Instagram reels and things like that. Right. Well, you're following the people who are pretty consistent with their content, right? You don't you're not the, you know, following people. They're just one, you know, video hits, right? You're following the people are consistent and things you like and you're continue to follow them at the same time.

00;22;29;13 - 00;22;36;08 Those people know when they go off kilter, right? They're going to know very, very quickly and get that feedback. And this is what it's all about.

00;22;37;17 - 00;23;08;29 The personal algorithms, I guess, is the way to say that. It's with that consistency, people know what to expect and I think that's key, right? It becomes a dependency that because of what you're able to provide and you're demonstrating the consistency that allows people to know who to go to. Right. So ultimately, I think we've lost a number of steps here to key in on because we're we're doing a couple of trajectories on the side, what we can do and how we can do it.

00;23;09;23 - 00;23;41;24 But how you're seeing through that dependency that that consistency allows people to when an opportunity comes up, they're going to think of you. And I think that's what we're talking about here is mostly as you're making we call it networking call making connections, you can be socializing. It matters less. The point is when you're connecting with other people, regardless of the reason, hopefully it's sincere and it's less self-serve thing in the sense of it's always in it for you, more so it's in it for you so you can help the team, which is different.

00;23;42;25 - 00;24;07;09 I think the thing that the consider is as you're going through, people understand who their go to is. If it's in a particular area you've developed over the years, that you've become a very specific you know, subject matter expert in these critical areas you'll be thought of. And so if you're project based in a project comes up because not all the projects are the same, but when one does and they think of you, that's the point.

00;24;07;09 - 00;24;37;03 And the way they think of you is through that consistency of being able to be an effective communicator, it's tailoring your information to somebody or anybody. So they have an ability to piece things together over time because it's not the one hit wonder that we're after. It's over time they're able to see these little nuggets and then piece together a little puzzle that says That's the puzzle of somebody that has these skills, these attributes, these elements that I want to be I want to include as a part of the team to help me accomplish what I need to do.

00;24;37;04 - 00;24;55;24 Now, Chris, I'd like to take it to the next level, right? I think about the consistency of the visibility. And, you know, I think from an element of leadership is when you have the visibility, you have the consistency, you have that audience, right? Then you have the opportunity to drive an agenda, to drive a direction, to drive a strategy, right?

00;24;56;00 - 00;25;17;00 Because now you have a natural followers. You have natural listeners. Right. And very carefully. Right. I'm not saying that from a malicious perspective, but like people like you can actually start driving an agenda in a direction and a strategy now because of that, that voice. And so it's just like, you know, singers or music music, you can slightly kind of take things in a slightly different direction.

00;25;17;08 - 00;25;30;11 You can send a message, right? You can push in certain topics, right? And it's amazingly how powerful that can be when you build that visible, consistent, you know, kind of audience and message.

00;25;32;16 - 00;26;11;12 You hear that that was the can you just opened on driving change. So as we sit here and we talk about things through observation that we experience and we want to now influence a different way of doing things, being driving change, change management or anything to influence different outcomes because you've presented yourself in a way where people trust it, they find you to be a dependable contributor, selfless in the sense of wanting to serve the greater good or the greater team, the organizational goals, having a right construct and value systems, they start to trust you if you're able to.

00;26;11;12 - 00;26;43;25 Now, put together the information and have it point towards something that will help deliver even better results through ideas, sharing now you have a seat at the table. You're right. I think this is one of those things that, you know, you're able to truly understand the depth of its power. As you mentioned, and then leverage that not to exploit it, but you want to actually leverage it to be able to help others rally around your ability to see things differently and then now contribute in in bigger ways.

00;26;44;11 - 00;27;05;08 Absolutely. You know, another element of this I maybe should have mentioned earlier is that let's think about some of the great leaders right? You know, in our work thinking about in life and thinking about in the military. Right. And so I know your favorite historical general in the Army was, you know, patent right. Is that do people love leaders that are just completely opaque?

00;27;05;14 - 00;27;24;08 You have no idea how they make decisions. They have no idea what their principles are. You have no idea on what their agenda is. It's pretty hard to do. But when they're very when they're very open, transparent and clear, right on where they're going, what the goals are, how we're going to do things right. People, it's so much easier to follow is so much more motivating and it's so much more productive.

00;27;24;08 - 00;27;29;10 Right. And that's what because they're visible, they're visible, open and they're transparent.

00;27;30;05 - 00;27;57;11 You know, and relevant. And then there's more we can add on to that. But if you're all of those things and in my mind could be a timing thing, but either way, maybe you don't get looked at the same. So let's briefly cover that. So immediate gratification now that we have these these contributing factors, you know, I'm I'm understanding my dynamic, my my environmental dynamic, right where I am, either in the workplace or in the community, it matters less.

00;27;58;13 - 00;28;23;10 I'm learning how to present myself. We talked about personal branding. That's a form of communication. I'm presenting myself to be a valued member of society, of the team, of the organization. I'm communicating effectively. I'm identifying what the leaders within that community needs to see in order to have what they need to be successful in driving mission and moving things forward.

00;28;24;09 - 00;28;46;00 I'm getting better at that. I'm practicing and I'm more consistent now. I want something in return. What are your thoughts on. Well, David, I want it tomorrow. I want it today. If I'm doing all of these things you told me last week and I'm doing it right, I want to get what I'm deserving today. My thoughts on that.

00;28;46;18 - 00;29;06;17 Yeah, great question. And I always like the answer. Back with the question. Right. So it's just kind of going back to a manager, right? He was saying your manager, your script level, your organization saying that instead of seeing a statement like I'm having this amazing impact on the organization or on customers, I always ask the question, is this the most important thing to our customers?

00;29;06;25 - 00;29;28;07 Is this the most impactful project in our entire organization? You know, question mark at the end about? And then basically because you've asked the question, there has to be an answer or someone will drive an answer. No, David, that is, you are worthless. No, David, you're not working on the right things. No, David, you know that's the wrong priorities or it is it is amazing.

00;29;28;07 - 00;29;50;03 Right? So it's getting a little of that visibility and validation. Right. You know, on that. And sometimes but you never assume like, you know, Seinfeld never assume. We'll leave it at that. But the element is you want to validate and sometimes you validate not my making statements by asking questions. And they will devise some answers. And then you can realize, oh, I am working on something important.

00;29;50;03 - 00;30;01;12 I'm going to keep focused on this or no, maybe I'm working on the wrong things and taking the wrong approach. And that's just as important as, you know, driving. You need to get the communication feedback.

00;30;02;05 - 00;30;24;21 To great Segways and can't say that they're closely aligned to the visibility compartment, but I guess maybe they could be. We'll make it that way. Why? Because you and I are driving the narrative in this conversation, so validation the point of that is to make sure that you're on track. We're confirming, you know, hey, here's what I'm seeing of what you're delivering.

00;30;25;04 - 00;30;50;15 I'm observing or you're intentionally providing me this information in my best in the best of my ability, in my position are my view how I play a role in this particular relationship. Here's what I'm saying needs to happen. Great job here. Needs a little bit of work there or something. Else. And then the second thing you say, well, questions, it's more discovery.

00;30;50;24 - 00;31;14;28 Great. Thanks for giving me that information. Here's my question or here are my questions. I think this is probably a separate podcast in itself. How to ask the right question. But if you think about that dialog that's occurring after that, now you're beginning to understand how the relationship element is supposed to work through the visibility characteristic or that action.

00;31;15;13 - 00;31;38;02 You're providing information, you're providing visibility to others on what you're doing, and it's either delivered in the actions or the written form or through word of mouth. At some point, there's follow ups that need to occur because that's going to now get into the depth of what's really needing to happen for it to continue to move forward. Otherwise it becomes stagnant.

00;31;38;02 - 00;31;45;15 Like most things untouched, it becomes stagnant and then it loses its relevancy. Why? Because it's out of the time of when it was relevant.

00;31;45;26 - 00;32;05;18 Yep. I think we always have to ask the hard questions, and I am excited to, you know, that Will, you know, that's probably our next podcast, right? But you know, they validation is that is this having is this having the same expected results between what I think and you think or the team thinks, right? And in asking people that and be open about that and being ready for that feedback.

00;32;05;18 - 00;32;27;07 Right. And I think that is really helps you to know by being visible, helps you to know are you prioritizing properly, are you investing the right way in a way, those type of things. And I think many people don't understand that that's sometimes the most important task they can in being visible is asking questions.

00;32;28;16 - 00;33;02;02 Yeah, I think I think, you know, and maybe in closing here we're going to want to down with some of these these thoughts if you're not driving your visibility for yourself, of course, learning how to do it effectively like we talked about somebody else to do it for you. Right. That's the thing. If you're if you're sincerely and organically putting in the right work the right way, understanding that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes and we fail and you know, some decisions because they're uninformed or for whatever reason, too risky and doesn't land where we wanted it to.

00;33;02;02 - 00;33;29;10 And, you know, we have to pull back and reassess. If you're not going to advocate for yourself to start with, then you have to invest an enormous amount of trust into somebody who will. But then you become dependent on somebody's ability or willingness to be able to do that. And when it doesn't align with the timelines, don't complain because the factor is, is you're not doing enough on your own to be able to push out what people need to see from you so they can see you.

00;33;29;29 - 00;33;50;21 Increase their spot on. And it comes back to the word, I think, not just visibility, but execution. Right. And, you know, it will lead me to, you know, this podcast, you know, book recommendation. Right. You know, to have solid execution. Right. You need a visibility. Right. And execution is really the discipline of getting things done. So, you know, book by, you know, Larry Cassidy and Ram Sharon.

00;33;50;21 - 00;34;11;17 Right. Is that how can you execute on a strategy? How can it execute and mission if you're not visible and don't communicate? It's a spot. That's exactly what's going on here. Right. And so I think that's part of our our mission as part of our responsibility is to be visible. Right. And it's also our opportunity to lead. Right.

00;34;11;17 - 00;34;13;25 By being visible and encouraging others to do the same.

00;34;14;14 - 00;34;41;13 Right. Yeah. And we can unpack that all day. The type of leadership, the styles of leadership the the the type of leadership, informal, formal, everybody is at some point influencing something. So that can be, by a loose definition, a leader right, wrong or indifferent. It's a fact. You just want to you want to be more you want to be geared more towards the right way to do it than just being reckless in how you're making decisions and including people.

00;34;41;13 - 00;35;04;02 Because just because you want it to be something different than the sincerity, right? The role is you're well, we just talked about your influencing others in a way that has them making decision. So if you're doing it the wrong way, it is the wrong way because you're not doing it for the right reasons. And I know I'm being cryptic in that, but not so much.

00;35;04;02 - 00;35;17;03 I think everybody will understand the context of it is you got to put effort into doing things that carry high moral ground and value systems. So it's bringing people together then then eventually leading people apart.

00;35;18;08 - 00;35;34;06 You know, Chris, I think that's a great summary. At the same time, I think people are going to have lots of questions, you know, on, on this area. And I think that's probably should be our next podcast is really what type of questions to ask and how to ask great questions. And I look forward to meeting up and discussing that next.

00;35;34;22 - 00;35;52;15 Likewise. Yeah. It's great to get on these and do these seemingly quick hits, but this wasn't so quick. I mean, we actually we did ramble for quite some time here and I think it was good. I think we got hopefully covered the ground we wanted to. So, David, it's always a pleasure to have you here talking about these things.

00;35;53;11 - 00;35;59;11 Yeah, thanks, Chris. And I really enjoy, you know, getting the feedback from the community as there as our listener base grows.

00;36;00;04 - 00;36;03;25 Yeah. So give us feedback. All righty. One, keep moving forward.

Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we're trying to influence others. As we mentioned in our previous podcast regarding relationships, one of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose, what we want from each interaction, and what do others need to commit to our requests. Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. David Cross @MrDBCross on X -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;29;01 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle.

00;00;29;07 - 00;00;47;06 Why should I invest my time in it? Who is this person and what is expected of me? Communicating for impact is our topic today, and we cover the importance of recognizing the things we should focus on to bring value to others. We all may relate to the challenges we face when we're trying to influence others. And as we mentioned before in our previous podcast regarding relationships.

00;00;47;10 - 00;01;04;08 One of the most important steps we can take is to prepare. Being mindful of our purpose and what we want from each interaction is to see what others need to commit to our requests. Listen in as we cover the basics on steps to consider for becoming an asset to others through communication, we have all we need to become the person we want to be.

00;01;04;09 - 00;01;23;11 Let's remember how to connect with others when sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David, what's happening?

00;01;23;28 - 00;01;30;10 Chris, I've been waiting for you because I've no patience when it comes to doing these podcasts, so here we are.

00;01;30;21 - 00;01;45;18 I appreciate your patience. That's actually a form of what we're going to talk about today to say I'm sorry I'm late. You now say something to the end of thank you for your patience. Communicating for impact. That's what we're talking about today.

00;01;46;10 - 00;02;07;01 It's a big topic is very, very important. Right. And certainly one of the things that I've kind of stressed over the years and been one of my my major attributes is right. Is communication right. And going back to my days at Microsoft. Right. They had to think we program the Bill Gates and I spent spend a lot of time on it.

00;02;07;01 - 00;02;26;28 But I actually Bill Big Gates every year we do these things. We papers. In one year, I was awarded one of the top 30 papers of the year to Bill Gates. And what was it about? It was all about success in a distributed teams and the success that I found after my experience working overseas as an expat was it's all about communication.

00;02;27;05 - 00;02;35;09 That is how you can make a team successful. That's how you can be successful. And it's one of the most important things that people forget about, especially even in the high tech industry.

00;02;36;01 - 00;03;03;18 Yeah, that's a good point. I think it's one of those things taken for granted where we often think that one would assume, you know, what I'm talking about, and that's based off of, again, perception based reality PR or PR. I guess is a nice little acronym, but maybe trademark that I think a lot of what plays into that is there's an assumption right out of the gate and we we draw these conclusions based off of those assumptions from some reference.

00;03;04;03 - 00;03;31;12 Right. Were you recalling an experience that you've had to say, I'm speaking with the senior vice president today? I assume he knows what I'm what I'm talking about. So I'll start with X or I'm I'm guessing she's heard what I've what I've come to talk about. So I'll start with, you know, this. And we and we conclude these things and we approach oftentimes approach the situation with that assumption.

00;03;32;05 - 00;03;57;12 And there's a disconnect. I mean, there's often a disconnect because we also have to, you know, introduce these these phrases of, you know, well, let's take a step back. You know, these trendy phrases that people saying, well, if you're getting to that point, it's probably safe to say that you could have done it differently, probably even say you could have done it better if you stop assuming that people in the roles that they're in know what it is that you're trying to achieve.

00;03;58;27 - 00;04;28;23 I think you're spot on. And certainly I think your favorite character in Seinfeld, Kramer, says, like, you never assume, right? I'm not going to draw it on a board. Y you never assume right? But we remember that. And I think it's actually one of the relevant challenges, especially now that we're operating electronically and virtually right you know, working from home, working remotely, email slack teams, those type of things, is that it's easy to assume that your target of communication has the full context that you do.

00;04;29;06 - 00;04;35;04 But that's actually one of the biggest mistakes and risks yeah.

00;04;35;24 - 00;04;52;23 And there's a process. So in the, in that you've mentioned that you have the 30 papers, you, you had one, but can you maybe walk us through some of the things you did to prepare and through through your experiences to be able to kind of narrow down how do you start to think about communicating for impact?

00;04;53;13 - 00;05;19;16 So one of the things I learned about especially distributed teams, certainly here at Oracle and Google, Microsoft, all the company's been at right is we're very distributed. It's we're not one side Right. And a big part of being successful from a leadership perspective, you know, from an engagement perspective, from, you know, from a good operational perspective is about communication and so I go back to my days of high school drama.

00;05;20;12 - 00;05;56;05 It is that, well, you have to announce CAA, take your word and exaggerate your emotions when on the stage now because otherwise people may miss what you're trying to say. But it applies to business as well is so that you actually need to overcommunicate, especially in a distributed world. What I did and I learned many years ago this may be go back and to be, you know, almost like gosh, almost 15 years ago I write a weekly mail.

00;05;56;23 - 00;06;06;10 It's called that weekly dossier. It's not a newsletter. It's not a status mail because what do people do with newsletters and status matters? Chris, what do you do when you see one.

00;06;07;08 - 00;06;08;25 To that have a.

00;06;08;25 - 00;06;09;13 Tendency.

00;06;09;13 - 00;06;10;06 To ignore it?

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;33;09 Yeah, exactly. That's why it's called the dossier. Now, what I do for all my teams is for my team, for other groups that I work with, you know, stakeholders and things like that. I write a weekly mail, same format, same time every Friday I send it out. It's got news, it's got the information, it's got decisions. What the team is doing, it builds this musical rhythm, the drumbeat with everyone.

00;06;33;10 - 00;06;54;02 So they always know what's going on. And people ask, David, What's going on with X? Or Did you make a decision on why? I always have one answer. Did you read the dossier? And then people almost get addicted to this. And it's very, very important, especially in these distributed environments, and how you can build this rhythm and connection using communication that everyone can rely upon.

00;06;54;07 - 00;07;01;11 And it's amazing of the impact that you can have about how effective you can be. And it's all about communication.

00;07;02;17 - 00;07;27;04 It is and even then, right? So it's kind of breaking it down. So credibility, I think, plays a part in that. Right? And so we joked a little bit about newsletter, but maybe not, but if you're receiving something from somebody, you know, it becomes now a value proposition is what I'm receiving from somebody a from somebody that I find to be a value to me and there's levels to that.

00;07;27;04 - 00;08;03;24 And then it's saying, well, if it is a box check. Yep. And you say, well, what is it? Then again, the content now is, you know, you, you associate it the value and say, well, is this something that I'm going to invest in reading? So we talk to you and I talk. The last episode that you and I got together on was about relationships and we and we blew through a bunch of different scenarios that established now a point to where, you know, you individual with other individuals or a group of people have established a certain level of understanding with each other form relationship, the type of relationship matters.

00;08;03;24 - 00;08;35;22 Well, if the type of relationship is allowing you to now find each other to be credible or bringing some value, then you would invest in that. And I think that's part of this other effect of communication is the investment. Do I want to invest time in what is being delivered? So have you ever experienced in anything that you've done, David, where you thought that you had that level of understanding with the relationship to be able to communicate like that and you found it to be different than what you had expected?

00;08;36;11 - 00;09;02;21 Absolutely. I think this is, you know, coming back to our are a note about assuming things, right? Is if you fire off a communication, whether it's verbal or an email, a slack message, those type of things, is that in sometimes when it's virtual or electronic, you're maybe not you may not be receiving the indicators is how you're communicating when is being received right?

00;09;02;29 - 00;09;28;26 Is it being understood? Is it actually being perceived the wrong way? Are you offending someone and this is one of the challenges as well with communication. It's not just about the sending. It's also the receiving and understanding that and this is important that you need to ask is did did I send makes sense. Did is the information I'm providing of value to you?

00;09;30;09 - 00;10;00;15 Is it do you have any feedback? Right. In communication? And I think it's when we're in person, we have the visual clues and other things. It's much easier to understand oh, it's clearly my communication is a value and being received warmly or no, I'm created a problem. And I think that's one of the things you always have to check are in different types of virtual and electronic communication is you may not have that asynchronous or that, you know, the dual, you know, kind of feedback loop yep.

00;10;00;28 - 00;10;32;14 You touched on it, I think, and thanks for introducing that. It's the reading room. So, you know, assumptions, presumptions, and implications, you know, there's some point where we're going to we're going to create a truth for ourselves for whatever reason, in order to make us feel confident and comfortable or to to convince us that there's something else that's needing to shift or pay attention to how we invest in that thought now comes with, you know, being able to understand why, why, why am I doing this?

00;10;32;14 - 00;11;02;16 Why? Well, first of all, why am I communicating? Second is what's my intention or what am I expecting to get out of that communication? And then the next thing is, well, during that communication or that interaction, whether it's the visual, right, whether you're on video or in person, the body language, the environment, you know, there's subtle hints that you can understand based off of being more skilled at recognizing those those alterations in body language and visual aids.

00;11;02;16 - 00;11;28;28 Right. You know, you have to you have to learn what those could indicate. And then then a verbal component to where now like old school stuff where you're on the phone, you can't see anything. You now be connected to the audible component. And the thing about telephony You know, the the roles in which people have live in live in day to day through the phone where they have hundreds of calls a day.

00;11;29;11 - 00;12;08;04 Those are probably the most skilled at being able to recognize how the call is going from that, those putting those reps in to know how am I seeing or how am I hearing something shift and know what to say next. So when when you go through your examples, there's a clear indicator that something didn't go as expected What are some of the elements that now you can incorporate or the skills that you can understand that you either need or maybe emphasize on how to pivot from an expectation when you made that assumption that there was value on the receiving end, but it doesn't appear that it's being received as intended.

00;12;09;00 - 00;12;39;21 Great question. I think one of the things, Chris, is that you're saying being a great communicator means you're a great listener. And I think coming back to your exact point, especially when we don't have the the visual clue sometimes. Right, in just audio. Now, I'll come back to your question in just a moment here. But first, I want to say that coming back to relationships, like you and I know each other very well and we can detect and you know, when there's a change of voice or tone in our voice, because we know it.

00;12;39;21 - 00;12;59;21 Sure. Because we've got a strong relationship. But it's much harder when you don't have a relationship with someone and you don't have visual clues, your only audio. It can be much more difficult. And this is sometimes why people say doing a zoom call or other things, you really want to encourage doing visuals so that you can get to know each other a little bit better because you don't have as much context now coming back to you.

00;12;59;22 - 00;13;18;18 Your other question is being a great communicator. When I say this, being a great listener and this is where questions come into play is if you're if you're expressing you have an unknown audience or an audience you don't have a strong relationship with, or the full context is that you may share information, but then you ask questions right.

00;13;18;18 - 00;13;39;29 And listen, because sometimes you want to say, did did I make sense in what I just said? Does that fact Is that the same fact to your understanding? And you're asking questions and gives you an opportunity to listen, to understand how is the communication being received? Is it coming around with it coming across correctly and those type of things?

00;13;40;26 - 00;14;09;01 You said something right there, the implied self-awareness. So I feel like maybe there's a subset that before you're able to ask the questions, the self-awareness that plays a part, the emotional intelligence that plays a part in recognizing what you're good at. Let's talk a little bit about that really quickly is when who says you're a good communicator? How do you how do you come to realize whether or not you're a good communicator?

00;14;09;26 - 00;14;34;29 Well, you know, it's very thought provoking. I think we in some ways you're a good communicator saying that is then that is when you have lots of listeners and lots of people asking for you to communicate. In some ways, I could say that. Well, I must be doing something. Okay. If I'm having, you know, lots of people sign up to receive my dossier because it's an opt in if no one is signing up to receive it.

00;14;35;00 - 00;14;48;02 And then I'm like, hmm, my communication, it may be faulty or had zero value or doing something wrong. And then you can ask those type of questions So that's very Thought-Provoking, Chris.

00;14;49;00 - 00;15;18;10 Well, thank you. I think it comes from what what you now just again, you're leading us down the path, right? So it goes maybe as Sekulic comes back to who's invested in listening, who is coming to you for help, who is coming to you to ask this questions? Who's coming to you to engage? And if if you can now do a risk assessment and then realize at some point there's got to be some switch that flip to say no.

00;15;18;12 - 00;15;42;06 Maybe a common reality. Right. Somebody might resonate with this. I do it. I mean, it resonates with me because oftentimes I'll reflect and say, hey, I think I'm underutilized or hey, I think I'm not being X, you know, whatever I'm realizing that there's something that isn't making me as busy as maybe I should be or as I think I should be.

00;15;42;22 - 00;16;06;03 I think that's the catalyst to understand. Well, is it a meeting or is it a something else thing? Because the questions that you're saying once you've know, say, graduated to that point to understand that there's questions needing to be asked. I think you have to ask those to yourself first and then you can now qualify yourself to go out and seek understanding.

00;16;07;03 - 00;16;28;13 You know, what is it exactly that I'm trying to get from the things that exist or don't exist? You know, what's the effect of my communication method? What's the effect of my message? All those types of things. And then asking the right questions. So no sidetrack from from the path you were taking us. But how do you how do you come to learn the right questions to ask?

00;16;28;26 - 00;16;30;05 You know, you gave some examples.

00;16;31;03 - 00;16;58;20 You know, the right questions to ask is I think is really about validating or expressing your you know, what you are communicating in a way that people will answer. Right. So in some ways, if you make a statement, right, it's about asking a question about that fact or that information. Right. And that will that really, I would say is false, but it encourages someone to answer saying that.

00;16;59;08 - 00;17;23;01 Does everyone agree that, you know, this this data is correct and that will it will drive. It's like the art of influence that will drive an answer or, you know, and you want to almost you want to state things in a way in a question that that people will want to answer. You know, it's almost trying to be controversial.

00;17;23;01 - 00;17;31;04 Sometimes, right. In that really helps you to draw out that that that feedback that you're looking for. Got it.

00;17;31;09 - 00;17;59;26 So so finding a way and it's I believe that what you're saying is implying that there's an interest. So there's people that are invested to be around each other in order to have the existence you know, without getting overly philosophical is to say you're here. So there seems to be a willingness to be here. So to make it interesting is the types of questions where they have an interest in answering because they're invested in I guess the outcome is the best the best way to say it.

00;17;59;26 - 00;18;24;10 So I mean, I'm thinking conflict resolution, problem solving, brainstorming. You know, at some point people are interested in getting to the bottom of it to come together, which I think is the ultimately the goal is to bring people together to do something, whether it's to have fun or, you know, you know, read the newsletter or the dossier or to solve problems So what is off the top of your head?

00;18;24;10 - 00;18;30;03 What would be a good book that can help us shine light on a path that we can take to learn?

00;18;30;10 - 00;18;54;26 Well, I mean, back to this this session, you know, one is the art of influence, right? And the art of art of influence really provides all these techniques mainly about communication in that how you can get what we say is reciprocity, right? Is you want to do things in a way that forces someone in a respectful, friendly way to return.

00;18;54;26 - 00;19;19;25 Right. Or to respond. Right. And that's a big part of communication, is that when you get people to respond, you know, that they're understanding it or they're accepting it, they're going to value it. The other book I'd like to recommend is, you know, Jerry Weisman presenting to Win. Right. And it's really about the art of telling a story, because sometimes I think people are, you know, can communicate.

00;19;19;25 - 00;19;31;26 But you need to often tell a story, especially when you're trying to have impact. And there's a lot of art and science in that as well. So those are my two recommended recommendations.

00;19;32;15 - 00;19;53;03 That's good. Those are good ones. I've heard of both of them. I think I dabbled in the first one, but the book, the book that I'm referencing in a lot of times in connecting dots, that comes by way of influence. It's a book, The New Science of Leading Change. And there's I think there's a couple I don't I don't remember there being just one author.

00;19;53;03 - 00;20;13;07 I think there's a couple of them that work together on it. But influence are the new science of leading change and in that is connecting dots. So as we're talking about communicating effectively or communicating for impact. You talked about it being a being a good listener includes a lot of different ways of doing that. How you demonstrate doing that.

00;20;13;08 - 00;20;54;29 I mean, sitting there, you know, some skimming off the top of what some suggestions would include would be to, you know, the eye contact. If you're, you know, in front of somebody, you know, the nodding the body language would interpret or try and be translated and assumed to be, oh, they're engaged, they're paying attention. Are there other methods that will kind of go down a level of depth to where you can be credible in being an active listener is, you know, reciting or summarizing something that, you know, so what you're saying David, is this and then I repeat what it is a summary that I've heard you say in a way that resonates with me.

00;20;55;09 - 00;21;26;11 And then it kind of the things that you're looking for when you set it reciprocity. So now I'm relaying it or volleying it back to you, like, this is what I heard. This is how I interpret it. Did I get that right? That is why I bring up influence because it's connecting dots. And I think that's what we're talking about is in the dance that we do of communication, whether it's written or verbal or visual, whatever it is, we're saying something It's it's being able to now reciprocate the level of effort that goes into what's happening.

00;21;26;26 - 00;21;49;28 And we walk away with something of value. And in my way, what I what I love to do is connect the dots and see how critical thinking plays a part in communicating for impact because now we're talking about one thing, but maybe it's now connecting to other things that we've talked about in the past or we should be talking about as as somebody in your position.

00;21;50;08 - 00;21;51;13 How important is that?

00;21;51;23 - 00;22;14;12 It's very, very important trait is that because of often we say we can say we have a loud voice that needs to have lots of impact. If you don't have the validation, you don't have the adoption and understanding, right. That means things can go wrong and awry very, very quickly and very, very, you know, in a very bad way.

00;22;14;13 - 00;22;42;22 Right. And we can see that throughout the world. Where someone says one thing and intended another. And really, well, now they everything's gone wrong. Right. And the perception the choices, the decisions, you know, can go completely off track. And that's why it's so important, I think, to sometimes even test your communication when it's going to be when it's needed to have major impact.

00;22;43;01 - 00;22;49;02 Major results is sometimes you may need to test it before you deploy it into production, if you will.

00;22;49;16 - 00;23;10;21 I like the flow because as you were talking about that, I was thinking, well, what happens next and the test or the impact or the effect comes in, what happens next? So, you know, we we talk about things. You know, we prepare to talk about things. And then through that, through that action, we learn. We're supposed to learn things, right?

00;23;10;21 - 00;23;30;15 I mean, that's the you know, maybe it's an unwritten expectation that, you know, as you go through things, you have lessons learned, hopefully, or mindful enough to appreciate what it is that's being learned or as a possibility, an opportunity to be learned so you can grow so you can get to know each other better so you can do all of these types of things.

00;23;30;15 - 00;24;06;24 But some of the elements also include outside of that moment. So after the newsletter or the dossier sent, after the engagement, after the Zoom meeting, after the on site meeting, after the face to face interaction, whether it's at a coffee shop, or somewhere else, how important is in this scheme of communicating? How important is what happens next? And when do you think the intervals are that you engage with others as you communicate, as the relationship grows?

00;24;08;08 - 00;24;38;16 Well, in some ways, though, I, as I was hinting at earlier, is I try to keep it a regular rhythm, like saying that part of it just like the newspaper or newscast or other things is you want to have a regular rhythm that's very consistent because then people can bet on it, they can count on it, but also it can give you the opportunity to make corrections, corrections or adjustments or pivots so that, for example, if you're if it's a random communication like oh boy, I made a mistake, like, all right, how are you going to correct that?

00;24;38;17 - 00;25;05;07 You know? And then it becomes very obvious and, you know, sometimes damaging in itself versus no, you can always update every week, like, oh, there's been a slight change, but everyone knows that they'll get those updates and that regular format, regular timing, and it's easy to make the errata or the changes or corrections. And that's one of my recommendations is build the rhythm, build the cadence of the music and people will align with that drumbeat.

00;25;06;03 - 00;25;39;23 That that's that's not only a one of the most relevant statements we've made at the moment, considering this is a podcast where listenership, probably as a result of the rhythm in which we deliver these, is an influence on how much activity we can report through the analytics. How often are people listening? Well, the more consistent you are in delivering the more of a repetition, the more repetition that gets into somebody in an expectation.

00;25;39;23 - 00;25;49;19 And so the randomness, I think, is one of those qualifying words that says if it feels random, they'll perceive it as that and probably take less interest. Would you agree?

00;25;50;27 - 00;26;03;26 100% right. If you can bet on something and that's going to be there, you you embrace it, you, you take it on versus it being random. Like I don't know if it's ever going to come back. Why should invest my time in it?

00;26;04;22 - 00;26;29;15 There it is good. All right. So to to summarize. So, you know, communicating for impact, it involves many things, but much of it has to do with an interest and then withdraws the investment. And that comes by way of oversimplifying. It comes by way of being credible or somebody finding value in it, whatever it may be and whomever it comes from.

00;26;30;06 - 00;26;50;08 And then it has to do with the engagement component of saying you know, are you are you listening to what I'm saying? Are you hearing what I'm not saying? Or is there is there an element of where you seem to demonstrate an understanding of me as a as an individual expressing to you what it is that I think we should be talking about?

00;26;50;08 - 00;27;09;19 And then how do you demonstrate the understanding in that comes in many ways, many forms. But, you know, the frequency in which the engagement occurs, I think is as a is a key point, because if you want to keep the momentum going and be relevant with it to respect the interaction, then you'd want to find that rhythm. And that could be different.

00;27;09;20 - 00;27;26;21 It depends on the whole ideal situation. You know, it could be hours, days, months, weeks. It does matter. It just it's relevant to whatever the situation is. And in closing. David, what do you think we can do for next steps to test it, as you say?

00;27;27;12 - 00;27;48;20 I think one of the things that everyone, you know, needs to think about is what is your rhythm? Right. And because some people will be daily, some people weekly, some people are monthly, but I think is build their rhythm right. And within that rhythm, then you say just like everything is like, okay, what is your development cycle? What is your test cycle?

00;27;48;20 - 00;28;04;15 You know, what is your feedback cycle? You know? You know, your release cycle, right? Beta, traditional project management and communication is exactly that. Even though I'd say it's small. What you mean after project management, if you really think about it, when especially things of impact, you want to have a full cycle.

00;28;05;01 - 00;28;33;09 Got it. Spoken like a true developer. I'll take a different twist and just say how you make them feel. You know, so if the test for me and the challenge from all four meet all of you, myself included. David, do you find somebody today that you haven't reached out to check in on them and try to uplift how they feel, try to be a value to them today and then see how you can collaborate in a way that makes a difference in their lives as well as yours?

00;28;34;00 - 00;28;36;03 Fair to say it is.

00;28;36;25 - 00;28;57;26 I think things for summarize are really well. I hope people get some value from this and I'm thinking for our next episode, you know, we're talking about relationships. We talk about communication. But Chris, you brought up earlier and I think we should have a next episode on this about visibly witty, right? The people. You can be the greatest technical person or the greatest, you know, engineer, the greatest, you know, craftsman.

00;28;58;03 - 00;29;08;18 But if you have no visibility then how can you be successful? And then it comes down to relationships and communication. So I think that should be our next episode.

00;29;10;04 - 00;29;20;10 Time. Stay tuned. Same Bat Channel. No. All right, David. No, I think that's on the docket for next. And on that note, keep moving forward.

We can't do it alone. Relationships are important. There isn't much else one could say that counters that. In this episode David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize specific feelings that may occur during this process. We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;29 You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS, chief information security officer within Oracle.

00;00;29;10 - 00;00;52;01 We can't do it alone, and we know relationships are important. There isn't much else one could say that counters that in this episode. David and I touch on the basics of why we should all work towards understanding the considerations of why we need to develop different types of relationships, how we may approach others with compassion, empathy, and purpose, and what we should include in our toolbox to recognize the specific feelings that may occur during this process.

00;00;52;01 - 00;01;13;18 We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. David's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn David Cross.

00;01;13;18 - 00;01;14;14 How's it going, sir?

00;01;15;09 - 00;01;23;12 It has been too long, Chris, that I've been dying to get us going and our next episode is on the podcast and I know the audience has been waiting for us.

00;01;24;09 - 00;01;26;18 We had to take some time. You did a little bit traveling, did you?

00;01;27;14 - 00;01;49;00 You know, I am David Cross Travelers dot com. I do love my travels. And hey, my last big trip, right, was to France and I went to Normandy in Omaha Beach. So definitely check it out. And I will say, as the veteran, right, it's an amazing experience. And I was even able to conduct the, you know, the ceremony at the cemetery that is there.

00;01;49;00 - 00;02;00;16 It Omaha Beach or the Normandy. Right. It's quite an honor. And it's something if you ever have the opportunity, I think as a veterans, it's kind of a place we must all visit that How long do.

00;02;00;16 - 00;02;10;09 You plan that trip? That sounds like something that you had to spend some time thinking about. How are you going to how are you going to go and how long are you going to spend time? Was it much thought or was it last minute?

00;02;11;11 - 00;02;27;02 No, I thought about it for a year. It's one of those things that I didn't make the deal with my wife that she had to visit Paris for the first time. But that I get to visit Normandy for the first time. So we made the deal. And like I said, you know, it's all about relationships and thinking about that.

00;02;27;02 - 00;02;29;11 And, you know, sometimes there's like little give and take.

00;02;29;25 - 00;02;50;07 A little compromise. That's a good segue way. And don't think that I just let you slide over that shameless plug of David Cross travels. That was a good one. You didn't say your blog one yet, though, so we'll wait for that. Relationships. Yep. So, folks, you know, we've been talking about lately a lot of the things that go on.

00;02;50;07 - 00;03;22;23 Right. And so we can look at it from different perspectives, you know, the importance of relationships. Why do you have. And I think both David and I in our own ways, independent of each other. David just alluded to that here. But, you know, you have you have you have some categories that you're split relationships up in to say, oh, it's a work relationship or it's my, you know, my circle of five where it's my closest friends or my closest The board of directors, you know, there's types of relationships that we're going to we're going to talk through today.

00;03;23;11 - 00;03;42;08 And and maybe just kind of well, we're just going to talk about them because the value is relative to the perception of you and how and how you can understand things for you. Maybe some nuggets, maybe not. But it's just one of those banter podcasts for this episode. So, David, I don't know, where do you want to start?

00;03;43;06 - 00;03;58;21 I don't know, Chris. There's always, you know, as being our veteran podcast or even rights. I trust veterans. But I think an element let's think about the relationship that we've built, you know, from the military. Right. And how that affects our lives, how it affects our relationships and going forward. Why don't we start there?

00;03;59;12 - 00;04;21;28 Yeah, it's a good one. Let's talk about you. Me, right. So you're you're a senior vice president in cybersecurity. Or in security? You and I met a couple of years ago, not through our own doing. We were put together based off of the relationship we had with our passion, which is veteran affiliated focus. And then through MAVEN, military affiliated, better employee network.

00;04;23;10 - 00;04;45;25 We have roles and positions. And so my role to help lead that with a strong team. You were also brought in from an executive sponsor to support us in the in that capacity. And so from that couple of years ago, we drove some some solid initiatives that set a good foundation for others to now continue on with relationship building.

00;04;45;25 - 00;05;07;07 Right. We we've given a good ground for relationship building in the network and then yours in mind evolved into, well, what can you and I can do further to further that which leads to this podcast. And we've randomly, not randomly, but you know, at certain intervals we'll keep in touch and check in and say, what are we doing?

00;05;07;08 - 00;05;23;07 Let's do this. And like today was somewhat spontaneous, you know, but I didn't that start with expectations maybe. You know, clearly we were introduced I didn't have an expectation of meeting you. I had an expectation on the role that you were in that evolved into other things. What about you?

00;05;24;18 - 00;05;40;15 Well, Chris, I think I think that I did have an expectation to a degree is saying here I am joining a veterans related group. Right. In that expectation, what can I expect from you? Right. And so that I said, well, we were not in the service together. We're not in the same unit together. We're not in the same war together yet.

00;05;40;16 - 00;05;59;10 But we're both veterans. Right. And so an expectation of what are your principles right? How are we going to operate? Right. The natural sign, I think, is just like when our active duty, you know, even your Army, Navy, Air Force, we know how to operate in that. You now have this great baseline of how we start and operate.

00;05;59;20 - 00;06;09;27 And that's a major advantage I think sometimes veterans have with each other and others are members of the service and it builds a relationships to the next level and different relationships.

00;06;11;17 - 00;06;31;19 Yeah, because so so it so it comes with the expectations and if you have a significant other a partner or a friend, a close friend or family member, you know, we we hear this often is like no expectations. You know, I'm I'm with you. No expectations. There are some and you talked a little bit about the value systems and things like that.

00;06;31;19 - 00;07;07;19 There's some things that are just assumed and taken for granted. That generally speaking, we don't want to hold somebody to to our perspective. And so we we hopefully allow others to be themselves and that's part of the relationship, the good with the bad, you know, if you're going to use an example. And but when you're brought together unexpectedly, you know, that openness to to have that flow begin of the dialog, the connections, you know, in this case, you mentioned the commonality stripping away the other factors that were less important at the moment.

00;07;07;23 - 00;07;25;26 You said, well, we're veterans. We don't have a lot of these other things in common, but we do have that and that's where we'll start. And I think that's the one of the key elements as we kind of just go through the idea of what a relationship definition could mean to everybody is commonality. What do we have in common?

00;07;27;01 - 00;07;44;00 What do you think some of the challenges are in getting to that part to where you can strip away the other factors of wants and needs from an individual perspective and saying, I want I want to talk to that person because of whatever, or I need to talk to that person for whatever. Or you just bump into somebody and you didn't want to talk to them.

00;07;44;00 - 00;07;47;29 You didn't need to talk to me. Did you expect it? What do you think some of the caveats are?

00;07;49;07 - 00;08;05;19 Great question. You know, I think an element is that sometimes you think about it, it's like what's the icebreaker? How do I get my foot in the door? You know, how do I open up the conversation? And sometimes when you don't know somebody, you don't know actually how to do the opening, right? Sometimes that's what things adventure's like.

00;08;05;23 - 00;08;23;13 Okay, we have some commonalities. I can start with something. I could say, hey, you're in the army. Great. Now, I was like, Oh, what unit were you in? Oh, great. Instantly, you've got a starting point with knowing nothing else, right? Other times you've been meeting that. Well, let's say we're not even we're not veterans like. All right, Chris, what do you do?

00;08;23;13 - 00;08;44;27 Right. Okay, you do you watch movies, you know, it gets awkward, uncomfortable, right? Because you're guessing what to do. And I think part of it as people is, is maybe sometimes just like networking or trying to get a job, do some research. Well, is Chris on LinkedIn? Oh, is he on other social media oh, he's a fan of movies.

00;08;44;27 - 00;08;53;26 Ah. Oh, no, he's a golfer. Oh, great. Now I have an opening to Chris and you go golfing this past weekend. Wow. What an opener. And that's what it's all about.

00;08;55;16 - 00;09;29;05 Yeah. You learn, you learn something about somebody so that the idea that you can, you know, one, be mindful enough to realize that you might have to do put some effort into the beginning. Right. And nothing is easy, I guess it's safe to say is starting a conversation until you practice, right? You have to kind of do it frequently and often in similar scenarios to build the confidence to be able to know that you're going into it unexpected in the outcomes, but just trying something and then going from there.

00;09;29;05 - 00;09;53;29 So fluidity, I think is another factor that weighs into that. So you started it, you had an initiation, now you started the conversation and being fluid on the on the response to now what that is what are some of the things that happen in, in, in your space in doing that? Because you're in your role, in your professional role, it's is it become somewhat of an expectation that you do networking of too often?

00;09;55;04 - 00;10;12;29 Yeah, it's very, very important I think is certainly in the security space. And my role is really to be able to make a connection with customers. I think one of the things I certainly found here at the company is that you need to build a community because especially it comes to security. It's about trust and so how can you trust someone when it's opaque?

00;10;13;09 - 00;10;36;25 You need to have transparency and openness. You need to have a connection. And so part of it is like you may have to start building those connections and building a community, you know, and starting the conversation sometimes can be challenging. But that's how the security community is successful is by building the connections, by sharing information. And I think that's very similar to what you're describing with relationships, right?

00;10;37;06 - 00;10;47;17 I think, of course, you think about recruiting, right? You know, how do you get someone that is maybe not interested in your company to even have a conversation with you? What's your trick?

00;10;48;21 - 00;11;15;17 Yeah, that's that's that's a good one. It's something that's acquired. I pause there because it's a hard it's a hard question, right? It can be you can easily respond to that with something because you have an incentive. And so now your goal. So you're if you're if you're goal minded and you're you orientate to say, well, here's what I'm going to get out of it in that specific capacity, then there's your driver.

00;11;15;17 - 00;11;48;14 And now you know that you have to do something regardless because you can't you can't get what you need to earn unless you do. So I think there's I'm going to answer that in to two ways. One in a recruiting element, right? Or when you're trying to get something from something you have a motive. The thing, though, that I can say with with all honesty is the transparency and the sincerity manifest itself in the things that you do before you even say anything.

00;11;48;23 - 00;12;27;27 Right. Your approach to body language, just your general being, I think. And this it's maybe weird to say, but I think it's just a matter of, you know, some people will see that and immediately just not be interested in beginning the conversation. Let, let, let alone reciprocating anything that you're going to try to do. So I think what wins is realizing that part, which is the second component is getting getting yourself to understand how to be sincere and genuine in what you're trying to do for the right reasons, because I think that's the language that you can't necessarily speak verbally unless you share it.

00;12;28;10 - 00;12;49;17 And then it then it becomes then and then there's a risk there because then it's not it's probably less humble if you say it versus just be it. So I think, you know, the way the way that I think about approaching people to want them to come be a part of something, the tribal component, which I think we all want in some capacity, we want to belong to something.

00;12;49;22 - 00;13;04;28 That's the connection. And I think that's the thing that gets me to understand more about how to do something is because it's going to be that connection that you talked about earlier, what you call it a commonality. But there's a kind of a human connection that allows us to be at least for that moment, interested in the same things.

00;13;05;07 - 00;13;23;07 I have something that I want to share with you because I think it's good for you and we can we can we should talk about it and then that becomes the second component is because now that you have that engagement, you know, you certainly need to hold the conversation to be able to communicate effectively, to share the goodness that you want to share.

00;13;24;12 - 00;13;40;19 Yes. Let me build upon that. Going back to I think our relationship is a we're veterans and ultimately is in the military to say, what's the mission what's the target? And so when I didn't know you, I said, Chris, what's our mission? What are we going to do? Right. Once we know that, like, okay, we have a common goal, we're going to go after it.

00;13;41;05 - 00;13;59;11 Now let's put it aside. We're not the veterans. We're not military saying, all right, what is the person's mission? Might be a little hard or just really figure out what's in it for them when you understand what's in it for them. What are they looking for? And that's the target. That's what you're going after. And understanding that right is really what it's all about.

00;13;59;24 - 00;14;07;08 And when you do that, then you can really align and build a relationship because you may help them achieve that mission, that goal, that target.

00;14;08;18 - 00;14;29;00 Yeah. What's in it for them? That's good. So that's that's a simplified way of sharing the same idea. So that's what that's what David's good about when we have this relationship. So how do you how do you understand that? What's in it for them? You got to be curious. And I think that's the other element is at some point you're going to be more curious than not, whereas before you're probably not looking at it.

00;14;29;00 - 00;14;52;12 The mindfulness is not the thing. It's part of your life because of whatever reason, you just you just focus on different things. I think it's a life stage thing. So when you're curious about that, that interest in seeing what's in it for them, you have to learn what it is, right? And that's the engagement part, right? So what I get excited about is being able to engage with people just for the pure, simple fact of it's an engagement that's it.

00;14;52;12 - 00;15;24;01 I don't I no longer have an ulterior motive unless it's driven towards an observation that screams to me that maybe in this interaction they could benefit from something else. I know I benefit from it. I already accepted the fact that I'm going to walk away better feeling good about talking to somebody else. Because you have to. Right. In order to feel like you're a part of something, you have to it's one of those social animals that you just naturally do.

00;15;24;03 - 00;15;43;29 There's variations can only be careful here, variations of that, the levels of intensity and how you do that. You know, I mean, we can talk about how you're, you know, extroverted, introverted and all these personality types and things like that. There's certain levels to that. I'm just saying for you, how it makes you feel is also just as important because that keeps driving you towards wanting to do it.

00;15;45;04 - 00;15;59;22 So, Chris, this makes me want to ask you a question about is what you're describing. Isn't that just like paying it forward? Right. Is like whether you're trying to help someone connect with someone, are you just really the real the principle of you pay it forward because you never know in the future when you may need something in return?

00;16;01;04 - 00;16;26;03 Yeah. Yes. Yes. Always looking behind you and around you to see if there's something you can do for others. Absolutely. I mean, ultimately, that's that's most of where the joy comes is doing for others. But it's also having the understanding that, you know, when you do that, you're actually doing something for yourself. But the key is to not get caught up in how it benefits you.

00;16;26;03 - 00;16;34;06 I think that's the trick and understanding that paying it forward shouldn't surround and how you feel about it as much as it how it makes others feel.

00;16;35;02 - 00;16;52;20 Absolutely. You know, going back to, you know, what my first job is, I left the military. My first manager is he said, you know, David the most valuable thing you can always do is make other people feel great and other people feel great, make other people great helping them. And because you never know when the time comes, when you need the help, you need the leg up.

00;16;52;20 - 00;17;22;06 Right? You need the army picked up off the ground. Right. And is building up these set of cards over time is is quite enormous. Right. And I think that's what everyone should think about, right? It's not a debt that you're paying. It's actually a credit that you're building. It's quite amazing when the unexpected happens or the unknown happens or an opportunity happens and you realize, oh, my gosh, that person that I helped, you know, five years ago, ten years ago, and I need something there for me.

00;17;22;12 - 00;17;26;29 And they're so willing because they remember what you did for them. And that's what relationships are all about.

00;17;27;27 - 00;17;50;29 Yeah. The people remember how you made them feel. That's certainly an element that that speaks volumes. The you know, the interesting part in all of this I think the underlying factors, everybody needs something from somebody. Right. But if I could say this and have it makes sense, that would be great. You don't have to say it out loud, right?

00;17;50;29 - 00;18;17;16 You don't have to say it. We all need something from somebody. So if we're working and it's a work relationship and I have to go to somebody else, some people will say, you know, don't, don't, don't go to somebody else only when you need something. That's a fair point. Unless that's the type of relationship that you have that it's grown to be that way to where you've already gone through the bumps of building a relationship, forging the relationship in ways that allows that to be the case.

00;18;18;04 - 00;18;52;03 Or you increase the risk of it just being one of those things that now people will avoid. Right? You could be that person that people avoid. You only come to me when you need something and that's it's one of these books that we talk about. That's the taker, right? That's somebody that's a taker. There's giver and taker. So I think there's that that element of humility that goes with that, too, where there's at least a common understanding that how you're going to leverage your relationship with the individual for the type of relationship you have, that it can be that because reality is we all need something from somebody we just don't want to keep.

00;18;52;03 - 00;18;54;14 Like what you're saying, keep taking money out of the bank.

00;18;55;17 - 00;19;26;28 You know, another angle on that is sometimes I think I never want people to fear of being a taker asking for things because I actually one of my observations over many years in the studio space the the high tech space, whatever it is, people are often hesitant to ask for help. They're hesitant to ask a question. And sometimes the I say the weakest person or the people that could could actually be the most successful are the ones that asked for the life ring.

00;19;26;28 - 00;19;41;05 They ask for help. And I think we should encourage that, is that there's the takers that are taking advantage of things. And those are the people that really should be takers because they just need to ask for it, ask for help. And that's how our company can be successful when people help each other.

00;19;41;21 - 00;20;08;12 Yeah, that's a good one. So let's unpack that a little bit. So one mindfulness is key. We've mentioned it a couple of times. Self-awareness from mindfulness, you get the self-awareness of recognizing who those people are and that comes with now a developed skill to be able to recognize how you can help somebody come out of that. Right. And that's what I was kind of inferring earlier, where some people just aren't naturally you know, outgoing.

00;20;08;12 - 00;20;33;09 And so it takes a little nudging. That's, I think, probably built around a lot of what you'd said about trust. Right. And so you know, there's David Brooks had written a book, The Second Mountain, and inside that it's talking about in a relationship and in a related social crisis. And it talks about the loneliness, crisis, distrust, the crisis of meaning and then tribalism.

00;20;33;09 - 00;20;54;02 So there's some elements in here that kind of surround or circle what we're talking about, too, where mental health is a component. You no doubt insecurity or discomfort. You know, there's a lot of folks that that feel like they're going to be in a position when they ask for help. And those are the things. That's why we talk about the circle of trust, right?

00;20;54;02 - 00;21;17;22 The five, five closest individuals that you keep there because it keeps it tight. They know you best. Each one has something that's helping you do something. It's different than the other. It's that kind of a sum of five, if you will, as I've heard some friends call it, that that's a good a good point of saying, you know, how do you recognize when somebody in your relationships is needing something when they're not asking for it?

00;21;19;23 - 00;21;40;29 So kind of building upon the theme here of, you know, our books, because I know our audience love our book recommendations on this month, going to kind of a theme describing here is, you know, people not sure they're you know, maybe not confident in pastor you know, my book of the month recommendation. It was the mastery manual by Robin Sharma.

00;21;41;11 - 00;21;55;00 It's really an amazing book that I highly recommend to everybody in thinking about how do you become to lead? How do you become great right And the mastery manual is is something that I highly recommend to to our audience for this podcast.

00;21;56;20 - 00;22;02;15 Talk a little bit about that. What is that what it's kind of the the Cliff Note version of that.

00;22;04;02 - 00;22;24;07 A big part of it is I think sometimes it's about stepping out. Right. And an element is that you are going to lead, you are going to take charge. Right. You it it's not about being extroverted or introverted, those type of things. It's really about it really kind of everything of setting your goals right is that the element is which I agree with, is like you get up in the morning, right?

00;22;24;07 - 00;22;38;25 Is like, okay, who's the leaders? The people you get up at 5:00 in the morning, and you set your day, you set your schedule. Right. And I think some of the benefits I remember the days of like, yep, when is when is the the roll call wearing and when is the duty section right? 7 a.m. you can't be late.

00;22;39;16 - 00;22;56;05 You're going to get up early. You're going to be prepared for it, giving your uniform all those benefits like David, how how can you be at the top of your game every single day is like, yeah, because I was trained in the military. Right. And it's a big part of it is you have clear goals. You set them down and you go after them, right?

00;22;56;06 - 00;22;59;17 And you build in the structures that you need to achieve that.

00;23;00;24 - 00;23;27;04 Yeah. And so there's some self-actualization that comes inside of that it seems then that, you know, one, you have to figure out what you want to do. There's some of us that still haven't figured out entirely what we want to do. So we're kind of just floating around and then we just, you know, we take opportunities, right? And then we say, well, I don't, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I'm going to say, yes, and I think that's the other factors.

00;23;27;20 - 00;23;53;01 You know, some of what you're saying is you have to say yes when you're hesitating, when you have doubt. If you've done diligence right. And you're confident enough to say, well, I'm still unsure, but at some point you have to make a move. And so you say yes, and then that would help you be aligned now with outcomes, knowing that that's the self-discovery comes through that exploration after you say yes.

00;23;53;01 - 00;24;18;01 And I think that that's a key element of relationships today. I was having a conversation with one of my friends and she had recommended that I go on LinkedIn and connect with somebody else. And I didn't hesitate. I if you're making the recommendation, I'm going to go do it and I did it. You know, it's, it's a habit that comes, it's formed based off of saying having said yes and the risk assessment, right?

00;24;18;01 - 00;24;35;24 Because you can be risk averse, which is something I learned from David several years ago. On taking you step out of my comfort zone. I consulted with him. I pulled him aside because our relationship was I'm like, hey, you've been doing this, you know, and you have more experience around these areas at this level. What do you think I should do?

00;24;36;11 - 00;24;59;29 And is I the summary is what do it. But we have to remember that sometimes we we need to be risk averse but we don't want to overdo that. So we have to know how we're going to be able to calculate it effectively and then, of course, be ready for what happens after that. And that was one of the greatest advice that I've received from David is, you know, in order to step outside your comfort, you got to say yes.

00;25;00;08 - 00;25;20;09 But you have to understand that the things that happen after that, you're not necessarily going to be able to plan for. So just roll with it enough to be able to understand it and then continue on through it until you're out of it. That way, you can now become more comfortable with making a decision later you're growing.

00;25;21;29 - 00;25;50;07 I think I'm kind of taking this you made me think about it for a minute. That is that we all have relationships and connections, but we also need to nurture them because, you know, over time we never know when's the next time. We may need help, we may need a push, we may need the insights is kind of like we go through phases in our careers or our lives and seeing that of going back and looking at the relationship saying, well, we probably all over time, you know, some of us a little older said 20 years like, oh, I know an expert in this.

00;25;50;07 - 00;26;08;26 I know someone that inspired me in that and when the time comes, you go one, you should nurture and maintain those even if you don't need something yet. But in the future you may. So you also never know. And maybe they need help. They just maybe they're not asking for it. Right? And I think that's a big thing that we should always think about.

00;26;09;02 - 00;26;18;07 Why do you and I, you know, keep our relationship? Right? Because we like we think there's value. We're there. It's great having, you know, your your buddy when the time comes, you've got the backup when you need it.

00;26;19;01 - 00;26;34;08 Yeah, it's a good point. And I like how you said that you never know when somebody else is going to need you. So if you think about that, let's let's ponder this real quick. Do you ever walk in down somewhere, are sitting in your chair? You just you know, doing nothing. You sit in there and then you think of somebody.

00;26;35;14 - 00;26;55;15 I'm always curious as to why that happens. And there's been a time when, you know, I get a phone call and some of us may have had had this happen to you. It's happened to me twice. And I vowed, never have it happen again. And I'm do my best because if it comes up, you answer the phone because you don't know who's on the other end of it.

00;26;55;15 - 00;27;15;17 That's literally a call for help. But the other thing where this intuitiveness for I don't know is called is it instinct or something where you get this feeling that somebody pops into your head or haven't spoken to so and so and so long. I now it's no longer really a question as to what I'm going to do it more often than not because not for everybody.

00;27;15;18 - 00;27;34;01 It's not for everything. More often than not, I even place a value on it, which is limiting. So I'm somewhat of a contradiction, but not I'm saying they popped into my head for a reason. I should reach out. So I do my best to try to do that. It just depends on the mindset I'm in. And sometimes I'm not where I want to be or need to be.

00;27;34;13 - 00;27;54;19 But because of that, that's literally the thing that I'm using similar to that of a phone call saying why I thought of this person. I should I should reach out because I've already told myself I haven't in a while. And I think that's the connection that we can't explain as to how we can check in on people to make sure that we're nurturing the relationships.

00;27;54;19 - 00;28;06;09 Because if you're not physically around them on a constant basis, you don't know when they need you or not because they might not be asking or because they can't. Either way, I like I like what you brought up.

00;28;07;12 - 00;28;30;13 You know, I think in building upon that a little bit is I think there's some challenges that are vague. How many people send holiday cards every year? I think that number is dying or going away, you know, more and more of the years. Right. But at the same time, I still think about well, every year I get a lot of sometimes, whether it's on LinkedIn or other social media or, you know, quick email or a tweet or something that say, hey, David, how's it going?

00;28;30;14 - 00;28;50;24 Hope you as well with you. And you start think if you really think about this, I you know, I'm kind of glad they did that. That means they're maintaining that connection, even though I maybe forgot about it, but I never know when I may need it. Right. So then it makes me think, you know, is maybe I should just do that is kind of having my little things have just keeping that connection warm because you never know.

00;28;51;05 - 00;29;11;17 It may not be tomorrow, I mean, a year from now, maybe ten years from now. But when you keep those warm connections, especially people that it maybe it's ten years ago that you did some great things together. Life changes, right? We've talked about one of our podcast, you the unexpected. You're not aware and you always want to have that whole squad and a whole unit behind you when the time comes.

00;29;12;17 - 00;29;12;27 Yeah.

00;29;13;14 - 00;29;29;13 Now that's that's that's that's the way to think you know it's using the information that you have realizing that you don't have it all. So then you do put some effort into to try to get some more information to say, is it me? What should I be doing? How should I be doing? It? Is that should I do that?

00;29;29;23 - 00;29;54;16 Maybe. I mean, the whole thing is it's in your head. You're thinking about it. What are you going to do about it? And the worst case scenario is you land on saying, I'm going to pick up the phone, I'm going to shoot a text, I'm going to send an email, I'm going to knock on the door. More importantly, with your neighbors, here's the sarcasm with your neighbors, knock on their door, get to know your neighborhood and the community.

00;29;54;16 - 00;30;00;08 I mean, you just redefine what community means and then apply that and get to know everybody around you. I mean, because why not.

00;30;02;03 - 00;30;16;17 Without question, Chris. I mean, things have been quiet for a while, but like the you know, the zombies, we don't know when they're going to show up. And if your neighbors aren't there right now, you know, you can only store so much water, some food and MREs. Chris, I'll leave it at that.

00;30;18;13 - 00;30;20;01 Got it. All right.

00;30;21;12 - 00;30;40;18 So, Chris, you know, I think this has been a really, you know, a great conversation, right? I think is that is we don't know what's going to happen in future. Right. You know, whether it's zombies, you know, whether it's, you know, a climate change, you know, whether it's a change in or jobs. Right. But I think it's about a, you know, thinking about how you build trust in how you build connections.

00;30;40;18 - 00;31;00;21 How you nurture and maintain the bonds that you made over the years. Does as veterans write things about your units in many years ago, you know, reconnect with them, you know, just keep it warm. A very simple, you know, a simple call, a simple email, a message on Facebook, those type of things. But always look at the network.

00;31;01;01 - 00;31;10;23 Paying it forward. Right, is because sometimes the unexpected can happen to us. And it's great having those connections, those relationships, when the time we need them.

00;31;11;24 - 00;31;41;10 Yeah, that's that's sound advice. I mean, that's what it means. Let's let's just say like this, what else are you doing where you can't do that? You know, and I think that's more of a philosophical question. You know, it could be a rhetorical you can use it for whatever else. But ask yourself, if you're not doing anything, you know, at the moment, why not use that that moment to reach out to somebody and think about how they might be feeling and how that could spark something else.

00;31;41;10 - 00;31;59;10 And the motive is to do that. Right? And yeah, you might get something out of it for sure. You're going to feel good. You get that, that's for sure. Or maybe you won't because maybe maybe there's a risk in when you do that that there's some unfinished conversation that hasn't happened and things like that. However, it's still there.

00;31;59;19 - 00;32;17;22 So now you can you can face it, you can work through it, and then, you know, you can have closure of some sort. So that's the other part of it. So I mean, let's be real. There's some that some other relationship activities that components to consider. But I think generally speaking is, you know, we have people around us, we've engaged with people, we've interacted with people.

00;32;17;26 - 00;32;33;27 You know, there's people that have come in and out of your life at some point to where there's value in the immediate minute. Right. And that in that moment, there's there's immediate value. And then there's times when you haven't realized it yet. And that's to what you've been saying is there may be a time when you need each other or one of you needs somebody else.

00;32;33;27 - 00;32;54;24 They know maybe maybe they're even serving as a connection. Right. And I think that's the thing, you know, is people point nice to other people is also part of the path. So yeah. So I guess this is a good touch base. Touch base. I appreciate your time, David. And you know, for anybody out there that wants to connect with us, you know, you got to cross that.

00;32;56;00 - 00;32;56;26 What is it called now?

00;32;57;17 - 00;33;03;21 David Cross Travel Scan Me, my blog that talks about all the zombies around the world. I wonder.

00;33;04;09 - 00;33;09;04 What. Yeah, that one I was talking about, whether it's Twitter, but that and then.

00;33;10;26 - 00;33;13;26 And then Mr. TB Cross ad on Twitter.

00;33;13;26 - 00;33;18;10 So yeah. Yep. And then say one more time.

00;33;19;01 - 00;33;21;18 Mr. DB Cross at Twitter.

00;33;21;27 - 00;33;24;10 And then your your blog, your travel blog.

00;33;24;26 - 00;33;26;22 David Cross travel scam.

00;33;27;05 - 00;33;41;13 Yeah, you should go there. I checked it out. I mean, you know, we, we talk about it. It's funny now because we talk about it, but there's some good stuff there. I mean, you definitely do some traveling. How often do you travel in the air, do you think.

00;33;42;07 - 00;33;55;10 Well, at least I try to go at least, you know, two big trips a year. You know, the comet kind of threw things off a little bit. But, you know, definitely, you know, you know, three to four times a year because it's really my personal passion and things like that. And it's connecting to more people around the world is amazing.

00;33;55;10 - 00;34;07;16 The people I've met around the world that I have friends in Australia that I met on a tour. Right. That will be friends forever. And I never know if I need help. And our flight gets canceled in Melbourne, Australia. I know who to contact.

00;34;08;02 - 00;34;22;06 Yeah. Then there's that. Right? So got it. All right. Well, David, and then you can always find me on LinkedIn. I think we'll say that in opening too. But it's been a pleasure What do you think we should talk about next?

00;34;23;22 - 00;34;45;04 Good question. What should we talk about next? You know, I think it's I think there's an element is I think we're we were mentioned before about challenges is then why don't we talk about moving up, right? You know, how do you strive to the top? Right, right. And let's say what motivates people? How do they get there when there's obstacles and barriers?

00;34;45;04 - 00;34;47;26 Right. You know, let's maybe we can even have a guest join us.

00;34;49;13 - 00;34;59;17 I like that. All right. So maybe our next episode is going to include career trajectory and how you move move to where you want to be. Maybe that's that'll be the episode name.

00;35;00;02 - 00;35;00;14 Love it.

00;35;00;28 - 00;35;04;06 All right, David, appreciate your time as always.

00;35;04;06 - 00;35;05;19 Chris, I'm looking forward to the next one.

00;35;06;10 - 00;35;08;07 All right, everyone, keep moving forward.

Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance, nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do. Mindset, nutrition, movement, and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better, and move towards very specific goals, nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition, and supplementation into digestible, easy-to-consume, tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/ - [email protected] - [email protected] - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;09

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this fifth episode of our XO series, I am joined by our guest, Jana mason, senior performance dietitian at XOs.

00;00;28;12 - 00;00;59;12

Potentially one of the most overlooked aspects of overall human performance. Nutrition is an absolute necessity in anything we do mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery needs to be an integrated part of our efforts to sustain and improve our activity levels. As we consider wanting to do more, think better and move towards very specific goals nutrition is key. Listen in as Jana breaks down foundational nutrition, meal timing and composition supplementation in the digestible easy to consume tips for us all to use and pass on to those we love from individuals, athletes to businesses or military.

00;00;59;12 - 00;01;19;17

Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. Jan Contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Good morning Jana. How's it going? Good morning, Chris. How are you? I'm doing great.

00;01;19;20 - 00;01;42;21

Doing well, thanks. And before we got on here, you said. Yeah, it's a sunny day here in Florida and. Right. Yep. It's been. It's been very nice. It's been very hot. So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks, we'll start the downward trend. So we have some nice cool mornings. The falls great here, but the summer is a little brutal at times.

00;01;42;23 - 00;02;15;24

Oh, I bet. Yeah. The humidity probably going to dial in to how the environment or the external elements affect our nutritional focus here. Yeah, they definitely do. See what I did there? Segway chai try and nutrition to everything. All right, everyone. Today we're talking about nutrition with Jana mason from Exos and running out of Florida. So we've had previous episodes where we've had an introduction with Anthony Hobgood, who's also talked about some other topics like training and daily movement.

00;02;15;24 - 00;02;41;23

And then we've had some information on the model itself, the human performance model with Stephan Underwood and we've also had an episode for this one with About Sleep with John Stemmerman. And so today we're talking about nutrition and how it ties in to the things that we've already discussed and then also introducing some things that we haven't yet probably introduced as something that we should no matter what we do.

00;02;41;23 - 00;03;22;20

And who we are and in one of our jobs or interests or goals are how we need to factor in the realities of what nutrition does or doesn't do for us, depending on what we're trying to achieve. So Jan and I will kick it to you. Yeah, absolutely. I think nutrition is one of those things that when people do set a goal, especially like a weight loss goal or maybe even change in body composition, goal nutrition is kind of like one of the last things people consider, which it really should not be, because you're definitely going to get to your goal faster if you kind of hone in on your nutrition.

00;03;22;23 - 00;03;50;26

And even even Anthony, I was listening to the podcast that you did with him. He talked a lot about nutrition. And when we're working with athletes, our coaches do a great job of telling them like, Hey, you're going to run a faster 40. If you dial in on your nutrition because the other guy who is just as gifted as you are, this is the thing that could put you over him.

00;03;50;27 - 00;04;23;19

So yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize not only like if it's a weight goal or a body composition goal, like how nutrition can affect your, your mindset, your mood, your energy levels, like the tire, the energy you have at work. But also when you get done with work and you have, you know, a family to take care of or kids to play with nutrition and play a very vital role in changing your mindset.

00;04;23;21 - 00;04;49;23

So I know Stephan, when he was he was speaking with you, he talked kind of like a high level overview of our human performance model that we have at Exos. And he did speak about how you do have to have mindset, nutrition movement, recovery seamlessly integrated so that you can meet your your goals efficiently and optimize your overall cognitive and physical performance.

00;04;49;23 - 00;05;15;02

So he did a good job, I think setting the stage there for Anthony and and John. He'll speak about sleep in myself and then the others to follow after myself. So that was great. And then Anthony, he spoke a lot about sustainability and I'm definitely going to talk about that in in this segment because it is really key, he said.

00;05;15;02 - 00;05;42;05

I liked when he said, do the simple things savagely well, but do them consistently because you could do the simple things savagely. Well, but if you only do them for a short period of time, then you're you're going to revert back to your old ways. And that happens all the time with nutrition. I get clients all the time here that, you know, they're like, Hey, I want to do something.

00;05;42;06 - 00;06;04;14

Just fill in the blanks for a restrictive diet. I want to do a keto diet or a very low carb diet or I want to fast whatever, whatever it may be. And I'm like, okay, well, that's that's great. Well, let's talk about what you've done in the past, what your goals are. Has this worked in the past? Is there in barriers?

00;06;04;16 - 00;06;30;04

So just asking a lot of questions, seeking to understand. And sometimes we come to the revelation, Oh, well, this didn't work in the past and actually it was only a short term success. And then I ended up gaining all my weight back or whatever it was that they had said as a goal. And then we come to the conclusion, okay, well, maybe we need to set a different nutrition game plan.

00;06;30;12 - 00;06;59;00

Or it could be like, Oh, well, this has worked for me and it has been sustainable and successful, but now let's figure out how do we optimize it and fine tune it even more. So I'll definitely want to touch on the sustainability of nutrition and just making sure you're doing something that's going to fit your lifestyle and also help you get to whatever or that goal is that you set.

00;06;59;03 - 00;07;19;05

So that being said, I want to start off with three key points. I kind of wanted to break it down, make it easy. I used to have this soccer coach growing up that always said when we try to get like fancy with our our footwork, he always used the terminology kiss, which I'm sure you've heard of. Keep it simple, stupid.

00;07;19;11 - 00;07;56;17

So I always start out with my nutrition talks, keeping it as simple as possible and then we'll dive into a little bit of deeper conversations and I'm sure we'll have some side segments off of these three points. But three points for anybody that's listening, we're going to first talk about foundational nutrition. So what is foundational in nutrition? We're going to hit on sleep and hydration because these really are the things that you have to get right before we even want to consider changing what we're eating.

00;07;56;19 - 00;08;27;11

They're basically the fundamental things that we need to make any type of body composition change or weight change. They affect our mood or energy. They affect everything. So we're going to start with the foundational pieces. The second thing we're going to talk a little bit about meal timing and meal composition. So like what things go in a well-balanced meal or a snack and then maybe even the cadence of the timing of how we eat those meals and snacks.

00;08;27;14 - 00;08;53;10

And then the last thing, which is the most specific, is supplementation. So talking about those things that maybe we need to fill in the gaps because we just can't do it through the food that we're eating. Or maybe we even have like a medical history of a deficiency or we are a high performing athlete and it's really difficult to get all of the nutrients that we need just from the food.

00;08;53;12 - 00;09;15;23

So we're going to kind of start off in that order are foundational. So are most basic fundamental things. Kind of like Anthony spoke about. You have to be able to fundamentally move without pain. That's the most basic thing. So we're going to start with basics and then we'll work our way up to a little bit more specific, if that sounds good.

00;09;15;25 - 00;09;36;16

Sounds good to me. I mean, that's kind of introducing the opportunity to ask a couple of things along the way and then connect dots and things like that. So that's great. But I do like how you all have all of you have consistently used the terms in each of these conversations, which helps with the kind of the mindset of understanding the discipline that goes into the consistency.

00;09;36;16 - 00;10;04;26

You know, and I'm not trying to split hairs on this or being very specific on this meaning, but the trust that's developed through the staff or through the coaches or through anybody that's helping you change how you do what you do, you look for these subtle things, subtleties. That's what I was looking for, is the subtleties. You're looking for it, and the language you're using is the consistency as far as seeking to understand, doing the things savagely.

00;10;04;26 - 00;10;28;02

Well, that is funny because you can say I crushed it on my workout a month ago. I haven't worked out since. Yeah. So it's this memory of of success, right where you're like, Oh yeah. And then you don't do it again. So yeah, I'm curious and, you know, I'll do my best to try to not interject before you make your point, but let's go.

00;10;28;05 - 00;11;20;16

I feel feel free to interject. I can definitely get off on some tangents so I'll try to stay on track a little bit here. So Foundation, we're going to start there. Sleep and hydration. I tell my clients, my athletes, these are the two most important things that we need to do and have right before you even come to me wanting to change you up your your meal plan or your game plan for your nutrition, people don't realize how much impact that these two things actually have on the nutrition choices we make and then also on our recovery from whatever the demands of the day are our movement and then also trying to change body composition.

00;11;20;17 - 00;11;42;07

If that's one of our goals or change our weight, because there are a lot of physiological and metabolic responses that happen when we are getting enough sleep or and we are hydrating well or vice versa if we're if we're not getting enough sleep and recovering as well or drinking enough water. So I'm going to start with the sleep.

00;11;42;07 - 00;12;14;23

I knew there's going to be a whole segment with someone that's a lot more intelligent than I am on sleep, so I'm going to keep it kind of a high level and trying to mostly focus on the nutrition piece of sleep. So generally speaking, recommendation for sleep all of these recommendations to that, I'm going to say during this segment are and I would say General recommendations like this is a starting point.

00;12;14;23 - 00;12;53;14

So I want people to know that not everybody is going to fit within these general recommendations because everybody's different. So sleep requirements, 7 to 9 hours approximately a night. Why do we need to sleep? Obviously, this is the time that our body and our mind are going to repair and rebuild themselves. We can go out and Anthony can take somebody through an intense workout, maybe they do in two days, but if they're not getting adequate sleep, then they're not going to reap the benefits from the repair, the muscle building that Anthony just took them to go through that workout.

00;12;53;17 - 00;13;21;16

From a cognitive standpoint, stresses illnesses like sleep is where we're going, going to come back. Those things. So from the nutrition standpoint, let's let's get to that. A lot of things are going on when you are getting adequate sleep. So growth hormone, this is a hormone that's going to be released when we are getting enough sleep. So this is needed for every tissue in your body.

00;13;21;16 - 00;13;42;12

So if you're trying to make any type of, I guess, quote unquote gain, you want to make sure you're getting adequate sleep. So this hormone is releasing properly cortisol, which I'm sure John talks about a lot in his sleep section. This is one of our stress hormones, and it's a catabolic hormone, meaning that it's going to tear you down.

00;13;42;14 - 00;14;09;02

So if this is staying chronically elevated while because we're not getting enough sleep. So it's chronically elevated mostly through the day because probably the demands of life outside of sleep are going to increase our cortisol levels as well. Then we're not going to be able to rebuild or repair as optimally as we would if we were getting that adequate sleep.

00;14;09;05 - 00;14;39;26

A couple other hormones that I wanted to throw out there, which are more thyroid and hunger regulation hormones, there's two in particular ghrelin and leptin ghrelin is our hunger hormones. So basically this tells us we we need to eat, eat more. This is actually going to be increased when we're not getting adequate sleep. Leptin, which is our satiety hormone, telling us like, okay, you've had enough, let's stop eating.

00;14;40;03 - 00;15;11;07

This is decreased when we're not getting adequate sleep. So if you have these two hunger regulation hormones that are kind of out of whack telling you to eat more, but not giving you the signal that you've had enough, then you are more apt to overeat and eat more calories than maybe you need for the day. So all of that is kind of something that you can't see physically but is internally happening.

00;15;11;09 - 00;15;41;18

So you can see how this would lead to not making body composition changes, which by what I mean by that is losing body fat. If that's your goal and or building muscle or weight loss in general, you're just not going to get there as fast if you're not getting that adequate sleep. Got it. So real quick on that one, since we're there and think about that because I'm thinking about myself as always, a little vain.

00;15;41;21 - 00;16;08;21

Just kidding. But if I'm thinking about the types of fat now when we're talking about sleep and we're talking about nutrition, the combination of those things to allow, you know, not to have as much cortisol and these other things, your body recovers and so on and so forth, the differences between fat. So when we're talking from here, I don't know if you're going to cover it or not, so we can understand the different types of fat so that you have the the rolls on the side and whatnot.

00;16;08;27 - 00;16;32;23

And then you have the I think it's visceral stuff inside. I don't know how the other way to say around your organs, you run to organs, different things, different way to lose that and different way to focus on how we can manage that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And actually chronically elevated cortisol levels are associated with higher like abdominal fat.

00;16;32;23 - 00;17;05;11

So that fat that for men, for example, is predominantly where your fat goes, which is more associated like cardiovascular disease and things like that. So like high blood pressure, cholesterol, all of that can be affected by the cortisol levels. So yes, losing the fat, that is not necessarily. And in indicative of a healthy, I guess, lifestyle or healthy biomarkers.

00;17;05;14 - 00;17;40;03

Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to touch on here, a couple things actually. So what is asleep Disrupter? The biggest one, and I think pretty much everybody knows what it is. Stephan touched on it in his segment to alcohol. So if we are drinking alcohol consistently before bed, the alcohol basically it's going to wake you up when it starts metabolizing.

00;17;40;06 - 00;18;15;02

So if you're you know that you have to be like game ready the next morning, whether it's maybe a sporting event or you have some type of like physical activity you have to be prepped for, or it could be more or if you need to be sharp in on your game for some type of conference that you have to speak out or whatever it may be, a meeting, the alcohol may be one of those things you just want to consider limiting that night before you have to be kind of game ready.

00;18;15;05 - 00;18;40;22

That's the biggest one there. I do want to talk a little bit about what can what things because I don't want to get too far into all of the other things that you can do to to get better sleep, because I know John will talk about that. But from a nutrition standpoint, because I get asked a lot like what things can I eat or drink before I go to bed to maybe get a little bit of better sleep.

00;18;40;24 - 00;19;01;29

So there is three things I'll touch on here. One is pretty, I would say pretty obvious, although I say pretty obvious in that I realize a lot of people don't know some of these things that I'm saying, but like a herbal tea. So like camomile that's relaxing. Tart, cherry juice, concentrate. So this'll help tart cherry juice in general.

00;19;01;29 - 00;19;41;03

Or you can take pills. There are supplements for it, but if you want to go the cheaper route, I would recommend the tart cherry juice concentrate. This helps with recovery, but also helps with natural melatonin production so that you can get into more of a restful sleep. You only need about two ounces of the concentrate. I usually tell people to go that route if you're going to do it, because if you do just the 100% tart cherry juice, then you would have to drink about 16 ounces equivalent to the two ounce concentrate, which is a lot of juice and may not fit into your overall calorie or carbohydrate needs.

00;19;41;05 - 00;20;04;05

And then the last thing is magnesium. So magnesium helps with muscle relaxation. You can get this again, you can get this from a supplement. But if you want to go the food route, which I would always recommend food first, nut seeds, legumes, dark chocolate, even, which is kind of a nice dessert. They all are good sources of magnesium.

00;20;04;05 - 00;20;32;03

So you could have something in your dinner or if you're doing a nice snack, maybe that's high magnesium containing food. So those are three. There's more things that you can do. But I thought I'd point out by just a few of people want to want to try that if they're having some difficulty sleeping, maybe try that before going the route of more, I guess, extreme ways of getting to sleep, whether that's medication or whatever it may be.

00;20;32;05 - 00;20;51;01

Yeah. Now that's good. And and because it's the flow of thought that I'm having, I'm like because you said concentrate. And I was like, where would I immediately and where would I get that? How much trouble is it worth? How much is that going to impact my ability to go find it and then and then be consistent And then you said versus the juice, which is 16 ounces.

00;20;51;01 - 00;21;14;10

And immediately I was thinking that what you said impacting the other areas of concerns of calories and sugars and things like that. So I like where we're going, That's all. Okay, Awesome. Yeah. And and with any of these little, like tips that I'm giving out, just I would say just experiment because you never know what's going to work for you.

00;21;14;10 - 00;21;39;07

Some people love taking tart cherry. Do some people just prefer taking magnesium before bed? So you kind of have to play around, see what works for you. Maybe it's nothing nutrition related. It could be something else. Like in your environment that's disturbing your sleep. So I'm trying not to get into that as well because I know there'll be a more in-depth segment on that.

00;21;39;09 - 00;22;07;13

Okay, So we have sleep. That's number one, hydration. Number two, which is tied with sleep, is our foundation is the hydration piece. And so I want to touch a little bit on that before we move on to the actually talking about food. So general recommendations, again, this is a starting place. We can go above it if needed, but a half an ounce to one ounce per pound of body weight.

00;22;07;14 - 00;22;32;01

So that's typical recommendation. So if you're a £200 person, you want to drink at least 100 ounces of water a day as your minimum. Now, if you are in a hot, humid environment like Florida, your needs may go a little bit higher than that. If you're training twice a day or maybe you're training for Ironman or whatever it is, you also may need a little bit more.

00;22;32;02 - 00;23;00;04

Maybe you're at elevation, you're going to need a little bit more. So you do have to consider the external factors. But if you use the half an ounce to an ounce, that's a pretty good, I would say, place to start. And honestly, a lot of people struggle with this. And I think it's just because people don't think about drinking water and they get busy or they're like, Oh, it's a hassle because now I have to go pee and I have meetings all day.

00;23;00;06 - 00;23;33;10

But honestly, it's one of the easiest upgrades we can make with probably the most significant health impact. I mean, you think about your body and how much of your body is water like it's a large percentage of your body like up to 70%. So it's got to be important, right? We need it for our cognitive function. So like making sure being focused, being productive, we need it for transporting oxygen and nutrients to our working muscles, our sales.

00;23;33;15 - 00;24;00;03

If we have an injury, obviously we need water to get those nutrients to the injury site so that we're healing faster. So we need it for everything. We need it for absorbing our nutrients in our organs. It's so important and people just don't think about doing it. So I have to want to have to reinforce it and then to I have to come up or we have to come up with like, well, how can we increase water?

00;24;00;03 - 00;24;29;08

Like what are some practical tips? So we'll kind of talk about those things. And I will say like we can also include any naturally zero calorie beverages in that in that as well. So we can include like unsweetened teas, sparkling waters, we can include some coffee. Even So if you're drinking black coffee, I tell people that's perfectly fine, you know, maybe two, 300 milligrams, which is probably 2 to 3 cups, depending on the brew.

00;24;29;11 - 00;25;15;00

Like you can count that towards your overall hydration. But I would recommend like, let's try to make most of that water and then everything else is just kind of like a cherry on top. So yeah, so cognitively we're going to be better off. I always show, especially if I'm given a PowerPoint presentation to like a corporate setting, I will show these images, these MRI images of two different brains and on one side is a hydrating brain and all the other side's a dehydrated brain and there are blatantly like significantly more black divots in the dehydrated brain, which is indicative of brain activity.

00;25;15;05 - 00;25;43;28

So you can see like from an actual image of a brain when you're dehydrated, how unproductive or uncreative or focused that you're you're probably going to be if you're dehydrated. I do think people get very used to being in a dehydrated state, and that's kind of like their norm. And they are like, Well, I feel fine and I'm drinking 20 ounces of water, so why should I increase my water intake?

00;25;44;00 - 00;26;18;22

But I will tell you, like when I do come across clients that are very low in water intake, which is most of them, when they start slowly increasing water in their day, they will feel a difference whether that's mood energy, like mental clarity, physical performance too. So if we're talking about an athlete or even like a weekend warrior, someone just working out daily and that sweating from a physical standpoint, you are going to be faster and sharp or you're going to be less prone to injury.

00;26;18;22 - 00;26;48;19

If you're well-hydrated as well. I always tell people try to keep it under that 1% loss of body weight. When you are training. So I'll actually have I'm not a huge fan of like weighing every day, but I will have athletes especially maybe the first week they're here and say it is summer because it's super hot here. I'll have them weigh in before and after a training session just to see how much water weight they're losing.

00;26;48;22 - 00;27;12;18

And then we'll kind of do the calculation if they're losing too much waterway. So say again, £200. If they're losing more than £4 of of water weight, they're losing too much because they're already at that 2% dehydrated stage where they're going to start being more prone to injury and having a negative effects on their performance. So you can kind of do that yourself.

00;27;12;20 - 00;27;37;09

Just weigh in before and after your activity, see if you're drinking enough. Maybe maybe it's easier because you weren't drinking any and you need to just start sipping water throughout your workout or your competition. Maybe you were sipping on water all throughout your training competition and you're like, I can't drink anymore. Then then that's when you're probably going to want to consider adding in maybe electrolytes to help retain some of that.

00;27;37;11 - 00;28;07;28

The fluid that you're taking in. And there is all kinds of electrolytes ranging in sodium. So again, you have to kind of experiment nutrition, nutrition can be really frustrating because it's not always like black and white, but everybody's different. So it is a bit of an experiment at times. But yeah, water, water, drink enough water. Staying hydrated is going to be super beneficial to physical and cognitive performance.

00;28;08;00 - 00;28;43;17

I know I mentioned that to be in that big marker, but even at 1% dehydrated, you're not necessarily going to have a physical performance decline, but you will have more of a cardiovascular strain. So your perceived effort seems harder. So we don't we don't want that, especially if you're an endurance athlete or a triathlon or you're running a marathon and you feel like, okay, I'm in mile ten, and now I feel like this is a lot harder than it was, I probably can slow down.

00;28;43;17 - 00;29;09;16

So ultimately it is going to affect your physical performance. And I have to reinforce this with our military population all the time, like drink water because it does affect you. They have to be like mentally and physically sharp at all times. And it's really hard for them to to to stay super hydrated, even if they're trying. So get at it.

00;29;09;16 - 00;29;31;11

So the summary is you don't feel like drinking. It is probably the the awareness s of you should because the minute you say I don't feel like it is probably an indicator that you should and if the environment in the elements you understand where you're going to be, if you're going to change from where you normally stay in your house, you can go somewhere else.

00;29;31;14 - 00;30;05;07

Consider that movement itself with stress and other activities where your body's now responding to different places and different elevations and different atmosphere and all that stuff Drink, drink, water, fluids. Right. And and actually being inadequately hydrated can also affect your, again, cortisol level. So adding more stress is not good, right? Yeah. Got it. All right, cool. Dehydrator, quick note on this.

00;30;05;09 - 00;30;35;01

Again, alcohol. I know alcohol is falling in everywhere here, but I have to talk about it. Alcohol is anti diuretic hormone. So you're going to be losing more water and then added sugar. Actually, a lot of people think it's coffee when I always quiz people, they always think it's coffee, caffeine in and of itself. If you're drinking it at a moderate amount, say 3 to 400 milligrams a day, you should not be dehydrating yourself.

00;30;35;06 - 00;31;00;20

It's when people add added sugars or you're getting that like pumpkin spice latte. It's almost a fall season. So those things are going to dehydrate you because sugar is going to rob your cells of water. So just keep that in mind when you are hydrating, making sure that you're intentional about getting at least half your body weight in ounces of water.

00;31;00;20 - 00;31;25;17

And then you can add in other things as well. Got it. Yeah. Didn't think about that. And I'm glad you said that because I like my coffee and yeah, I don't know people. It's okay to have it. Yeah. And put stuff in it so. Okay perfect. So alcohol, water. Well alcohol, I mean it comes back to double down on the things that disrupt your sleep and then disrupts your.

00;31;25;17 - 00;32;00;24

Yeah. Okay. So it disrupts your sleep, disrupts your hydration which are your foundational things and we'll talk a second actually in the next piece about well, where does that fit in? So those are foundational sleep and hydration. And so now we're moving on to a little bit more specifics. It is probably what most people are interested in an end to talking about the mill composite in our macronutrients and micronutrients and then maybe the timing of that as well.

00;32;00;26 - 00;32;38;25

So before I dive into the different macros, macros, I do want to stress the under fueling problem. I would say 80% of the clients I see the tactical athletes, I see they chronically under fuel, which is actually a big problem if you're wanting to lose weight or again, if you're wanting to make those body composition changes. So building up muscle or reducing some of that body fat.

00;32;38;28 - 00;33;20;19

And I know I say that and I and I talk about the tactical population a bit because a lot of those at Oracle probably have been in the military at some point in their career. But I feel like that's something that a habit that you pick up when you're in that lifestyle, that sometimes you carry over and you continue to undo your fuel after you're out of the military, and especially because you're less active for the most part, then you feel like, Oh, I need to continue to cut calories, but that's not necessarily going to help you get to the weight goal or the body composition goal that you want to get to.

00;33;20;21 - 00;33;49;14

I've seen plenty of people that there will go over, say, like a 24 hour recall. And I don't I'll notice that they're barely eating, you know, 12, 1400 calories. And I'm like, hey, this is probably not enough fuel to optimize your physical performance, your energy, your cognitive performance. So let's try to actually up your calorie. Even though I know you want to lose weight.

00;33;49;14 - 00;34;21;05

Let's just see what happens and we'll up the calories and then people start losing weight so that I just want people to be mindful of like restricting calories to a certain extent does not always equal weight loss. So it's trying to fuel your body with the things that are going to optimize your cognitive and physical performance. So we're going to we're going to kind of roll through those macronutrients and some micro nutrients.

00;34;21;07 - 00;34;57;22

Whenever I'm talking about this section, I always start out with my favorite rule, which is the 8020 rule. And I think this brings us back to the sustainability that has been woven through all of these segments, because I have found that when we take an approach that, okay, 80% of the time we're going to fuel our bodies with what it needs to reach our goal, what it needs to be like, peak physically, mentally, but then we're intentionally going to allow for that 20% of time where we just have foods, say, nourish our souls and not necessarily our body.

00;34;57;25 - 00;35;28;12

We just enjoy eating them or drinking them if it's alcohol. So I do find that that's a more sustainable approach when we are not so strict and we do allow ourselves some of that, some of those foods in the flexibility to intentionally put those into our diet. So kind of keep that rule in mind as I go through some of these different macronutrients.

00;35;28;15 - 00;35;57;16

All right. So We're going to start with carbohydrates, everybody's favorite carbohydrates. When I speak about foods, I like to speak about them in a way that shows like how this food is going to benefit from a cognitive standpoint, a health standpoint, a physical performance standpoint. I don't like to say this food's good, this foods bad, because we know that all foods can fit into a sustainable diet.

00;35;57;16 - 00;36;23;04

You just want to be intentional about it. So carbohydrates, these are the foods that are going to be our preferred fuel source for our brain. So if we need to be cognitively sharp, incorporating carbs into our diet, it's a good thing. And then also it's our preferred fuel source for any high intensity activities or long duration activities. So from a physical performance standpoint, also carbs are our friends.

00;36;23;10 - 00;36;59;07

We want carbs in our diet. So what is a carbohydrate? It could be anything from a fruit, a grain, it could be beans, legumes. The key is to focus on unprocessed or minimally processed carbohydrates. So like our starchy veggies, the sweet potatoes, peas, corn, things like that would fall under unprocessed, more minimally processed would be more of like whole grain breads, pastas, brown rice, wild rice, black rice like that.

00;36;59;09 - 00;37;28;11

Those are going to be higher in fiber, which helps with cholesterol. It helps with satiety. So if we're trying to watch, you know, the calories that we eat, it helps us go for longer, helps with digestion. So lots of good things about fiber. And then also if you are eating minimally processed or unprocessed foods, you typically are eating things that are lower in added sugar, which the added sugar, as we know, is a dehydrator.

00;37;28;15 - 00;37;56;03

And also it's an inflammatory. So inflammation is connected to like every disease that we could have. So we want to keep that under control. And then if we have an injury, especially, we want to make sure we're just limited in those added sugars. My rule of thumb is typically let's try to keep the added sugar to under five grams per serving and the fiber let's try to shoot for at least three grams of fiber per serving.

00;37;56;03 - 00;38;29;07

So we're looking at a nutrition label. You should have fiber and added sugar under the carb section on the label. Got it. Makes sense. Perfect. Okay, so let's roll on 3 to 2 proteins. Protein is important for building muscle mass, but also it helps with the integrity of our immune system. So the key here, make sure we have a quality protein source at every meal and even our snacks if we can.

00;38;29;10 - 00;38;53;27

It seems like a simple thing to do, but honestly, it can be hard because what are the most convenient things? Like when we're in a hurry, we're probably grabbing a car or a car mixed with a fat, not necessarily a quality protein source. So sometimes this can actually be one of the biggest struggles for people to get adequate protein in at breakfast or lunch or dinner or whatever it may be.

00;38;54;00 - 00;39;20;14

You only need about 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So typically, I tell people, let's try to shoot depending on your whole nutrition plan, if you can shoot for at least 20 to 40 grams of protein in a meal, then that's great. You're doing pretty good there. Protein. We used to have this old tagline, the the left legs, the better a plant proteins.

00;39;20;16 - 00;39;43;22

Then we have our seafood or no leg and I guess animals. Then we have our two legged animal. So poultry, so chicken, turkey and then are four legged animals. So if we kind of try to include all of those, the four legged animals are red meats. Okay to have, but maybe we have them a little bit less than our seafood or our chicken and turkey.

00;39;43;24 - 00;40;11;02

So we can kind of look at it like that. And and the reason for that is because of what so Well, you definitely want to, I guess with the bears that can be multifaceted and you want a variety of everything the plant proteins are going to have a lot of fiber. So that's adding something different that like your chicken and your turkey and a red meats aren't going to have.

00;40;11;02 - 00;40;36;01

So that's an extra nutrient. They're also going to be filled with, you know, different vitamins, minerals, maybe more micro nutrients. And then as you kind of work your way up, we have our fish. So like if we're focusing on fatty fish, which are like salmon, tuna, herring, mackerel, these are going to provide those heart healthy omega three fat.

00;40;36;01 - 00;41;14;06

So they have a little bit more benefits, different benefits in certain ways. Again, if you just don't like plant proteins, it's okay to have chicken and turkey maybe try to get in some seafood if you can. So some salmon each week, it's okay to have that most of the days. But it's really important to with anything and any of the macronutrients to make sure that you're having variety because variety equals different nutrients that your body good giving and getting so balancing it out so everything offers something different.

00;41;14;06 - 00;41;42;24

And if you're looking at at what the other things you're eating contain, you can do your own supplementation of you or what you're doing, the activity levels and things like that. Exactly. And then like I said, right. Me there's still is still okay to have you know, as long as there's no religious or restrictions that are placed on you, maybe by a physician but that's still going to offer you something.

00;41;42;24 - 00;42;16;27

It has this great iron, so good protein source. So yeah, variety is key with the proteins as well. Got it. Okay. Moving on to fats are our last two macronutrient that I also, I guess kind of like carbs can get villainized a little bit, but fats are great for you if you're looking at the molecular level. So like if you're looking at your cell, your cell membrane has made up of fat, so you need that.

00;42;17;00 - 00;42;41;01

You need fat for every cell in your body. And certain fats I mentioned in the protein section are going to give you a little bit more than other fat. So like our omega three fats, which are anti-inflammatory fats, they're going to give us a little something extra than maybe things that are higher in, say, saturated fats, for example.

00;42;41;01 - 00;43;08;19

So those are things like they're found in nuts and seeds a lot, too, like chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, avocado. Again, our fatty fish that I mentioned earlier, olives, olive oil, things like that are going to have those good omega three heart healthy fats. But also a big thing about the omega threes, too, is the cognitive benefit that has as well.

00;43;08;19 - 00;43;36;07

There's lots of research on that. So it helps our brain, our heart and then our cells. So we want to make sure that we're trying to diligently incorporate some of those omega threes in there. But again, we still want a variety of fats because nuts, seeds, all the different fats are going to offer us different micronutrients and things that we need to optimize our overall health.

00;43;36;09 - 00;44;03;08

The last food group R is our color section, so I always include fruits in here too and in our carb section. But veggies and fruits are going to fall into here and these are what we need to help support our immune system. So vitamins, minerals, micro, all the micronutrients, phytonutrients, antioxidants, all of that fiber or green fiber all fall into there.

00;44;03;10 - 00;44;27;24

But we try to encourage at least three colors or more on each plate. This can be really hard to do. So I usually tell people like, okay, well, let's just take an assessment of what we're doing currently. Is there one meal in your day that you're not getting any color on? And if there if you can identify a meal, then maybe we'll just start there.

00;44;27;24 - 00;44;54;16

Maybe there's multiple meals, but we'll just pick one. We'll start with one meal and then try to add one color on there and then maybe we try to move that to two or maybe we move to another meal so that we can get a color on every plate. Sometimes I'll even tell people like, Well, let's just pick one color and we'll focus on incorporating as many veggies and fruits from that one color into our week.

00;44;54;16 - 00;45;24;27

And then we'll change colors the next week because each color is actually indicative of something that get like a vitamin or a mineral that's given your body to function optimally. So like red foods are associated with cardiovascular health and white foods with immune health. So they all are going to play a different role. And if you're missing out on color, if you're missing all variety, you're probably missing out on some nutrient that your body needs to maximize your performance.

00;45;25;00 - 00;45;48;15

So in summarizing all of this to me have it makes sense. The key word here is balance through understanding. I'm just going to throw my little phrase in there because if you're deficient in one thing and you double down on the, say, the proteins, right, the leafy proteins, then it's also in the vegetation and area. So you have to be considered what else you're getting when you combine things on your plate.

00;45;48;15 - 00;46;07;20

Is that safe to say? Yeah, it's all about variety and balance at the end of the day. Yep. Got it. Yes, because keep it varied, right. And understanding what each of these are. I would imagine just the layman, somebody like me is going in there and this is what I like. And you led with this, you know. What did you use?

00;46;07;20 - 00;46;31;22

What have you done in the past and what's worked and what hasn't? So you can identify what you want for your habits that you don't want to let go of so you can have that compromised to help with the consistency you feel like you're getting what you want while you're offering what you need. Slowly shift into a more disciplined routine where you now are acclimated to selection of what you're going to do in that balanced diet, right?

00;46;31;28 - 00;46;53;28

Yeah. And exactly. Have you I guess from your your personal experience, like, have you ever tried to do a very restrictive diet or nutrition plan and you were able to stick with it for a little bit, But at one point you just kind of like fall off the bandwagon and then you just go crazy and just binge on whatever you weren't having.

00;46;54;00 - 00;47;13;18

Yeah, I did the keto, but I was also at that stage I was doing trying to train for a long distance running. Oh, okay. Good combo. Great. Yeah, it's perfect. If you don't want to do what you want to do, let me just feed myself all the proteins, no carbs, and then go run 15 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;47;13;18 - 00;47;35;05

That sounds like pretty miserable. So, yeah, don't self-diagnose. Sometimes you're going to need to ask for help and get somebody to help you understand what it is that you're doing. First day, second day, second week might feel good. After that, something's missing and you don't realize it's. It's the things that you've chosen to do over the most recent days or weeks, right?

00;47;35;08 - 00;47;52;26

That you forget like. Mm. And then you don't want to do it because you're not thinking about the things that are affecting your, your decision. I don't want to do that. I don't feel like doing that. Well, that's because it's cyclic. You're you don't feel like you want to do it because you're not doing it. So. Yeah. Yeah.

00;47;52;28 - 00;48;16;00

Okay. And a lot of these things either. Yeah, we don't know that we should be doing it because there is a lot of conflicting information out there, especially on nutrition or we just have forgotten because we've gotten busy. We have families and kids and work and all that. So it's really it comes down to being intentional with everything.

00;48;16;00 - 00;48;38;27

And food is something that you want to be intentional about. It's not something that you want to add is another stressor on your life. But if you just kind of sit down and maybe it is seeking out a health professional, a dietitian to help you with it, but if you just do it and kind of make out a game plan, yes, you will have to go back and refined it and refine it.

00;48;38;27 - 00;49;00;09

Like Stephan mentioned, learn, design, deliver and refine. You do have to check back in and make some adjustments. But once you sit down and do that, it will take out a lot of stress moving forward because you get in the habit of doing certain things. So yeah, so we're we've got our foundation, we've got our meal timing and composition.

00;49;00;11 - 00;49;27;22

The last thing that I kind of had that I wanted to talk about was the most specific, which is a supplementation of this is the last thing that we should consider you shouldn't be thinking about adding in all these things like ashwagandha or b-complex or whatever it is, whatever the newest supplement is out there, there is always something they all get asked about something new probably every week.

00;49;27;22 - 00;49;50;21

And I'm like, Hold up. I'm like, I got to go research because I don't even know what you're talking about right now. We got to have the sleep in the hydration and then the food dialed in and then, okay, then maybe we consider like, okay, we're still missing something that how do we fill in the gaps? And that's where, like supplementation may come into play.

00;49;50;24 - 00;50;15;13

This can come into play if we do have a know like medical history of being deficient in something, or maybe we are a high performing athlete and we just have more demands than I guess the average person from. It also can come into play though, just based on our lifestyle. I would always recommend food first, but sometimes we are.

00;50;15;14 - 00;50;49;26

We are very busy and it's better to get something in than nothing. So we might have to do like a whey protein supplement in our breakfast oatmeal because we we don't have time to make prepare an actual like hot breakfast. So lifestyle can always Yeah. Also kind of like dictate if we need supplementation or not. I guess I'll start with some every day supplementation and then we'll get into kind of Perry activity.

00;50;49;26 - 00;51;25;01

What what can we maybe do if you are active around a workout every day supplementation again, I mentioned plant or whey based protein here because I think this is a great thing that you can have on hand if you are very busy or you don't have time to prepare, say, like a breakfast. I use breakfast as an example because this is where I struggle the most, because I do have a 17 month old that I am getting ready in the morning, I'm dropping off at daycare, then I'm coming to work all day and also trying to fit some type of movement or exercise.

00;51;25;01 - 00;52;02;12

And so I stay relatively busy and I'm just on the go in the morning. So fitting in a breakfast where it's fast and maybe I can take it in the car with me or maybe I can eat it right when I get to work and I'm checking my emails in the morning. I think that having like a quality protein source on hand is not a bad thing, and that can be used as a meal replacement if you are getting all the macronutrients in there and the color, or it can be used as kind of like an accompanying thing or even a snack too.

00;52;02;15 - 00;52;29;11

So that could be an everyday supplementation. For me, Vitamin D is an important one, but the fat soluble vitamins. So it is one of those that you do want to go get blood work before you just start taking a lot of vitamin D. But I will say that most of the people that I see, if you are indoors most of the day or you live maybe in the northern hemisphere, most of us are a little bit low in vitamin D.

00;52;29;13 - 00;53;07;00

Also, the darker the your skin, you actually are more prone to be lower in vitamin D as well. So there's different considerations there. So that's a bit you might want to get checked out because that's going to play a huge role in your hormones, your mood, your energy, testosterone if you're male. So the very important vitamin A quality multivitamin, this this is basically if you struggle to get color in your diet, you're like, I just know I don't a lot of diversity in my veggies and fruits.

00;53;07;02 - 00;53;45;27

Maybe we need to fill in the gaps with vitamins, minerals and a quality multivitamin helps support our immune system as well. Especially, you know, it's this thick season that is like ramping up. So omega threes or some type of quality fish oil. Again, this is probably one of my foundational ones, just because there's so much benefit from a brain and a cognitive standpoint to just the information Harthill So trying to get a quality fish oil, omega 312, three grams a day is usually good enough of omega three.

00;53;45;27 - 00;54;20;08

So I would say those are pretty foundational. Now there's a million other supplements out there and some people may require probiotics or prebiotics, but those are usually a little bit more, I would say felt fine tuned if you need that based on, you know, your medical history, your digestion and things like that. Perry Perry Activity supplementation. I'm going to talk a little bit about, I guess, what we do here, the facility in Florida.

00;54;20;10 - 00;54;48;18

But honestly, I think the average, quote unquote, average Joe could also do this and benefit from it. But each morning I will set out a nitric oxide supplementation. So like a beet juice. So you can you can juice your own beets, you can find a quality beet juice supplement. But this is a vasodilator. So it's going to help increase your blood flow to get oxygen and nutrients to your working muscles.

00;54;48;18 - 00;55;14;18

So it's a great pre-workout to have, especially if maybe you're going out for a run or you're training for some long endurance activity. This would be a great pre-workout supplement to take. We also give beta alanine. So if you've ever taken a pre-workout that makes you feel a little tingly or itchy, it's probably the beta alanine in it, but we'll just give it straight up.

00;55;14;18 - 00;55;41;28

So I'm not adding in other things to that pre-workout. And this basically this will help with buffering the acidity build up in you, so it helps delay fatigue. So essentially, you can go longer or get more reps in and then caffeine. How do you want to touch on that a little bit? I do not give a stimulant when I'm giving out pre workouts to clients or athletes here.

00;55;42;00 - 00;56;20;25

Everybody reacts different to caffeine. It can act as a ergo genic aid. It has been shown to improve cognitive function like alertness, focus, also endurance activity. So that could be a consideration to do on the I would say recommendation because people are probably like how how much caffeine should I drink? 3 to 6 milligrams per EKG. So just to put that in more, I guess terms you can wrap your head around if you're a £150 person, that's probably going to be about 200 milligrams of caffeine.

00;56;20;25 - 00;56;52;23

So about two cups of coffee. And this is if you're using it as a ergo genic aid. So something that's going to help your performance. I will say some people don't respond to caffeine at all or don't respond well. It also can affect people sleep again. So I would not recommend doing like a massive amount or 200 plus milligrams of caffeine before like at nighttime or maybe even mid-afternoon.

00;56;52;23 - 00;57;26;27

Like I have to cut my coffee off about 12. So that doesn't disrupt my sleep. So that would be the only caveat there. But if it's in the morning that you're getting your training done, that could be something you consider to add your pre-workout. Post-workout Again, you do need do you need three things for Post-workout recovery? I say you want to rebuild a protein, refuel with carbs and rehydrate with water protein specifically again at quality whey or plant based protein.

00;57;27;04 - 00;57;34;22

You only need 20 grams of protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So try to shoot for at least that.

00;57;34;25 - 00;58;01;02

There is some smaller amino acids. I'm not going to get into everything, but particularly leucine, which is in most quality whey proteins. You're going to see a leucine amount in there. And this is the this is the actual amino acid that you need to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. So it goes through the entire process. So you want to make sure that's in there.

00;58;01;04 - 00;58;21;19

And then carbs again, the carbohydrates are going to be dependent on one. What was what's your goal? Do you want to lose weight, gain weight, maintain way? If you're wanting to gain weight, you're probably going to have higher carbs in somebody want to lose weight in your post-workout How does it fit into your overall nutrition plan for the day?

00;58;21;19 - 00;58;59;02

So if you ate breakfast before you worked out and it's hitting post-workout hitting about the time you'd have a snack, maybe do have a carb in there. It might just be your next scheduled snack or meal. It doesn't have to be a supplement as a post-workout recovery. But yeah, if you're doing something that's very long duration, say you're training for something over 90 minutes or a couple hours, then you probably are going to want to be intentional with refueling with carbohydrates to replace some of those glycogen stores that you kind of burn through.

00;58;59;04 - 00;59;22;29

Yeah, those those would be my top ones. There's there's definitely a couple other things that I'll add into shakes here. But those I don't want to give too many recommendations because some things could be affected by, you know, if somebody is on medication and things like that. So those have to be considered when you're looking at supplements because there are interactions with a lot of medications.

00;59;22;29 - 00;59;55;23

So. Got it. Yep. So I mean, it's a good flow and I like how you organize it all. It's basically it's understanding, you know, the plants, the plants, the food, whatever food stuffs you're going to have as long as you're again, sending it to where it needs to go through the hydration component. That last part of the supplementation, when you start to get into manufactured supplementing, there's your role in and I'm going to say this with caution, you're rolling some sort of dice because you got to know how much you're having in these other areas.

00;59;55;24 - 01;00;31;20

And you can go down that Costco aisle and see that whole row of stuff to choose from. And you're thinking, maybe I want this because I'm not feeling a certain way. And then you can double down on that and have too much of it. Safe to say. Right. And you got to know where it's coming from. Right. And yeah, I do the the supplement Haitian conversation in a in a general sense, I have to be cautious about it because you don't know what someone's medical history looks like or their current nutrition intake.

Did you know…about 50-70 million Americans suffer from some sort of sleep disorder? If you average less than 6 hours of sleep per day you are 7.5 times to have a higher BMI. Yes, sleep is important for a variety of reasons. Ever wonder how you may find ways to connect what you do and how it affects sleep and how sleep affects what you do? We have it here. This one is for all levels and is essentially an above-average explanation of how sleep works by walking us through layers of details to explain cause and effect, motor control, memory, focus, immune system…any kind of cognitive function and sets it up with actionable items to connect how to optimize sleep and performance. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-stemmerman-8a29969/ - [email protected] - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/

Today we're getting dialed into training plans and dig deeper into how we need to consider building foundations and how mindset, nutrition, movement, and recovery work together. If pain-free, functional movement is something you want to achieve, listen up, take notes, and go! Best quote I've heard in a while "It's the simple things done savagely well". Be consistent and find what works for you. From individuals and athletes to businesses or military…Be Ready as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - [email protected] - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;00

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized missions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. Thanks for listening. In our third episode of our XO series intended to break down the key ingredients of performance.

00;00;28;03 - 00;00;51;00

I'm joined once again by our guest, Anthony Hobgood, senior vice president of Methodology at XOs. Today, we're getting dialed into training plans and digging deeper into how we need to consider building foundations and how mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery work together. If pain free, functional movement is something you want to achieve. Listen up, take notes and go. Best quote I've heard in a while.

00;00;51;02 - 00;01;15;09

It's the simple things done savagely. Well, be consistent and find what works for you. From individuals, athletes to businesses or military. Be ready as we continue the mission to serve. Anthony's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;15;12 - 00;01;33;11

Anthony Welcome back. Chris Thanks. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, you got it. We got to bring you back. We had you first. You opened up. You gave us the high level summary of XOs, how it came to be. You told us a little bit about yourself, which gave us is the investment of the individual intentions.

00;01;33;11 - 00;01;57;26

The expertise comes from a place of experience. And so you bring that to Texas and clients and everybody that you're helping. But then talking about the different programs and things like that. And then we just had and in the second episode, talking about psychological drivers, performance capacity and functional state, which is a little bit deeper of getting a plan together, the things to consider before you start to improve yourself in different ways.

00;01;57;29 - 00;02;15;11

And if you're like me, where you can not do something for months and then remember that you used to do it that way and then go out and do it and never a good idea, because then you quickly realize that you're not what you used to be. That's true. So today, you know, we've got Anthony talking about the training plan and daily movement.

00;02;15;11 - 00;02;39;18

But that probably means that there's things that you will need to start with, with having the right mindset, taking things that you've learned from prior experiences, lessons learned. And I guess we're just going to get into it, right, Anthony? Yeah, let's do it. All right. I'll give it to you. Let's go. Yeah. So I would say that my my view of human performance and how do you take care of yourself?

00;02;39;20 - 00;03;08;24

Has strength has changed significantly over the last 20 years? And I say that because of, you know, the diverse experiences that we've had working at XOs, you know, working a lot with your your athlete population, whether it be young athletes all the way to veteran athletes. So, you know, training a college football player compared to training a 10 to 12 year NFL veteran, two very, very different individuals.

00;03;08;26 - 00;03;37;15

And so the lessons learned there also overlay to working with the tactical population by, you know, a lot of times was you know, I was telling that tactical guys who entered this week into our program you know you cannot model your training after the same model that the same approach that athletes take the training. Right. Because the way athletes train is not sustainable long term.

00;03;37;18 - 00;04;00;26

If you think about it, the average like if you're a really like if you're one of the best football players on earth, your career is over by the time you're 23, 24. Even if you go to the NFL, the average NFL career is three and a half years. 3.7, I think, specifically. So let's say you're 24 years old and you're done.

00;04;00;28 - 00;04;27;29

Well, if you're 24 years old in the tactical community, you're you're a baby, right? If you're 24 years old, you know, in special operations, you're the rookie. And so I work with guys in the military who are in their fifties. Right. Still still actively doing their jobs. Right. And so you can't take the same approach to training athletes as you train as you do in the military because of the you're dealing with something that's very, very different.

00;04;28;01 - 00;05;07;09

Now, here's what I've learned. If you if you want to if you want to improve your overall health, if you want to improve your performance, if you want to have sustainability, you have to be found like your foundation has to be the four pillars of mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery has to be. So, for example, right, if, if I want to again, health performance is sustainability, I need to be aware of and or have strategies around how I eat.

00;05;07;12 - 00;05;36;18

So nutrition, I got to fuel myself properly. I need to have a sustainable training program or daily movement plan. I need to have an understanding of the importance of recovery. So if we think of mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery, if any of those things is missing, then I'm not going to optimize my health, I'm not going to optimize my kids alignments and I'm not going to have sustainability working with the athlete populations.

00;05;36;20 - 00;06;02;04

They oftentimes don't have an issue with the training piece or even the recovery piece. But when you've had a six pack abs since you were the third grade and you've eaten whatever you want your whole life, usually nutritious is the area that's lacking. So we'll have these athletes come in. Chris that are minimal, like Greek gods, they took their shirts off and then just they just are they can literally be on the cover of a magazine.

00;06;02;04 - 00;06;29;14

They look so good physically, six pack muscle hanging off of them, and they have terrible diets. They're just genetic freaks, right? And they don't eat vegetables. They eat, you know, nothing but, you know, junk, fast food, whatever. And they look like that. Well, for those guys, improving how they fuel their bodies is one of their lowest hanging fruits to improve their health, their performance, and have sustainability.

00;06;29;16 - 00;07;02;00

Well, working with a tactical population, it's not difficult to get somebody on a good training plan. It's not difficult to get somebody in the population with good nutrition habits. The challenge in a tactical population is the is is the recovery. So I tell the guys who come in here is one of the lowest hanging fruit for you. It's how we can improve your health and your performance and have sustainability is that you have a better mindset around recovery and how you implement recovery.

00;07;02;02 - 00;07;31;17

When I say recovery, I'm not talking about just one stretching. Okay? Essentially, recovery is this concept of stress management, right? One of the one of the most important principles that we operate off of is work plus rest equals and adaptation. Right. And you've heard the example before where if you take your hand and you rub it on a concrete sidewalk, really aggressive and you never stop, you would eventually start bleeding.

00;07;31;19 - 00;07;45;16

However, if you rub your hand on a concrete sidewalk for a period of time, you allow to recover, you rested and you did it again. You rested it, you did it again and you rested. Your body would adapt to that adaptation by your skin.

00;07;45;18 - 00;08;09;08

So the question at hand is, okay, well, if my goal is to form a callus on my hand, what is more important, the work or the recovery? And it's really a trick question because the answer is no. They both on like without the without the stimulus, the work, I don't get the adaptation, but without the rest, I also get the adaptation.

00;08;09;11 - 00;08;37;13

Therefore, in my my mindset is that how I recover is equally as important as is my training. So my sleep habits are just as important as my workout, right? So that's very important, right? Because we will put a premium on training plans what we want, but then at night we'll go out and drink too much and stay up too late.

00;08;37;16 - 00;09;02;06

And then essentially I just wasted my whole week of training because of the weekend that I had it. So let's let so I like that. So let's pause on that one because that everybody is susceptible to that, right? No matter where you where you are, what you do, you're tempted to extend yourself for the luxury of convenience. Yup.

00;09;02;08 - 00;09;38;11

Right. So when we start to talk about natural behaviors, because you talk about similarities of somebody with the body that has the ability to just have that be in shape, appear to be in shape based off of just the the genetics. Does does genetics play a part in our approach to decision making? The ones that are constantly on the go, constantly feeling like they have to be active in order to, you know, feel like they're doing something specific versus what might be perceived as recovery.

00;09;38;11 - 00;09;55;12

Is sitting on a couch not doing anything to relax. It's not the same, right? It's just that's a way to do it. But that's not exactly what we're talking about, because that might be the perception people may have is when you talk about recovery, that means I have to slow down and not do something and I'm just not that type of person.

00;09;55;15 - 00;10;24;27

Well, I'll say this, that exhale, the gas coming in, your greatest to recovery tools that you have. There's lots of them. But number one and number two, number one is sleep. That is your greatest tool to match or stress management is sleep number. The second one is your program design, your training program. You cannot foam roll or coach job your way out of bad sleep habits in a bad training program design.

00;10;24;29 - 00;10;53;27

And what I mean, my training program design is that those my training program vary the stimulus of my body enough to where there's a natural my body has the ability to recovery due to the way I'm undulating or changing the stimulus over time. If I don't have that, if my training is just like a nonstop grind where I'm not very in the stimulus, I am essentially leading to an overtrained state.

00;10;54;00 - 00;11;13;15

I am not training is overtraining me and I don't have good sleep habits. But those two things are very foundational. Now, to answer your question, let me make sure I get this right. You asked the question, Do genetics influence my decision making process? Was that your question? Yeah. And that was it wasn't my best way of explaining it.

00;11;13;15 - 00;11;38;15

But it's just this is it the same as the ones that don't feel it? They don't have to eat right and all those things, but they still have that outcome. Are there types of individuals that don't need typical rest patterns that we talk about? So I would say this that I think your your mindset is what dictates the decisions that you make through your everybody has a hierarchy of values.

00;11;38;18 - 00;12;02;09

Can't escape that. Right. Right. So your values, your motivations, what your goals are, the hierarchy of your values, what you think more important, those things, what's what you feel is the filter at which you make decisions. Now come on, genetics impact that. Sure. So, for example, somebody who is a very like talented, physically fit or let's just say sort of fit.

00;12;02;12 - 00;12;27;16

Let's say you're naturally a phenomenal athlete. You've always been the best among your peers. You run the fastest, you're the strongest. Your skill level is really good. There's sometimes those individuals can tend to rely too much on their talent. So you see that with young athletes where they don't really work that hard because they are so physically gifted, which is really based off the genetic makeup.

00;12;27;18 - 00;12;54;10

They were always the fastest in the playground. They always hit the ball the furthest. They always, you know, they were just better than everybody else. So what I need to work on. Right. And so I think in a military mindset, I think, you know, again, I'm speaking from a civilian who's just worked a lot with the military. So I speak from a standpoint of learning from their world, not from my own experience.

00;12;54;13 - 00;13;25;17

But if you take somebody who, let's say, goes into some selection pipeline and you become a member of one of the most elite, you know, top tier units in the military, then there's a there's a mindset that is that is that is basically programed into you through that process. That is very necessary for that process. Like, you need to believe that you are ten foot tall and bulletproof if you're going to be successful in that world.

00;13;25;20 - 00;13;49;20

Yeah. However, believe in that like you really having that level of confidence, right? That I'm now ten foot tall, I'm bulletproof, I can do whatever because I'm, you know, fill in the blank, I'm X, whatever. Okay. Well, that's that's a great mindset to have. But if that mindset leads me to well, we can I can go out and, you know, we can that we work hard, we play hard.

00;13;49;23 - 00;14;06;14

So, you know, we work hard in a day and we're going to go painted on at night and have a good time. You know, it's like, okay, And I can handle that because I am who I am saying, Yeah, okay, you can handle that when you're teens, right? You think you can handle that, right? Young But as you get older, you can't.

00;14;06;14 - 00;14;28;10

That's that you can't sustain that you're thinking about right now. Like when I was in, when I was in college, my typical day, right? I'd wake of a 5:00 in the morning and go train to class all day, go to practice, come home with homework. And those many times where I was printing off papers for class at 3:00 in the morning because I procrastinated.

00;14;28;13 - 00;14;47;02

Right. But, Buddy, I would get 2 hours of sleep, boom, be up and I would training at practice and you would never know it. Not feel good if I get 3 hours of sleep now I feel like I had a flu for two days. It wrecks my world, right? So I actually was. I was. And I was 22 years old.

00;14;47;05 - 00;15;25;28

So anyway, the point is, you genetics have an impact on that decision making process. I think genetics has an impact on can have an impact on, you know, my environment, my mindset. Ultimately, it's the mindset that I have that drives my decisions around me. Got it. So and I'm just clarifying a point for all the the delusional folks out there, they think they can do what you just said and hit the gas all the time the same way even as your life's changes, your lifestyle, lifestyle changes, your life stage changes, as you get older, you have more experience, specific things where your body's taking impact.

00;15;26;00 - 00;15;45;15

It's not the case. No, it's you're going to you're going to burn out. And on the mental component, what I think affects obviously there's a connection. And I'm not an expert in any of this, but your mental state, there's an effect on your mindset when. Which is why we go through those exercises to understand where your limits are and things like that.

00;15;45;15 - 00;16;12;29

So let's let's let's talk a little bit about now, you know, transition into a little bit low over detail on typical let's talk about typical typical individuals in most scenarios. What do we think about when we're starting to talk about the plan and the mindset? Okay. So when it comes to the plan, you got you got to. Okay.

00;16;12;29 - 00;16;33;26

So, I mean, I think I said in order to have optimal health performance and sustainability, you have to be firing on all cylinders, mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery. So we're going to lean into the world of movement. We understand that in order for you to be healthy, you have to move. I don't care if you are 25 years old or you're 65 years old.

00;16;33;26 - 00;16;57;19

If you are sedentary, your health is going to go downhill. Period. Well, you have to be kind of big, I would say too. Broad categories of movement. One is, is physical activity. Physical activity essentially is I live a physically active life. I'm not exercising, but I do things in my daily life and get my heart rate up. That is a stimulus on my body.

00;16;57;19 - 00;17;16;26

So, for example, I had a I had a grandmother, a great grandmother who lived to be 101 years old. She had never she grew up she was born in 1902. Okay. She was ten years old when the Titanic sank and I mean, she was alive when I was in high school and I'd go talk to her. She was sharp.

00;17;16;28 - 00;17;42;07

She could she she could recite like she could recite. She had the entire I think there's there's entire chapters of the Bible she had memorized and she could recite them. And she was 97 years old. She had never been or seen inside of a weight room in her life. However, I don't think she ever had a television. She kept a garden.

00;17;42;10 - 00;18;14;12

She kept farm animals. She was super physically active every single day out in the sun, sweating. And she was not sedentary at all. Some of the point is, is like I if I if I don't train, I have to move to be healthy. That could be the form of physical activity for some people. So let's say, for example, that I was a my job was a I was a hunting guide in Montana and I helped people in the backcountry, you know, go in and locate Elk for hunting.

00;18;14;12 - 00;18;46;12

Right. And I walked up and down the mountains all day long. I don't need to go home and do conditioning, running treadmill. Right. Got it. You still see it? I do. Yeah. So? So there's a physical activity. However, if I want to. If I want to improve my body's performance level for anything, whether it be my job for sport or recreational activities, I need exercise.

00;18;46;15 - 00;19;16;05

And exercise is where I'm going to put a stimulus on my body on this human organism in order for a specific response or adaptation. So, for example, I want to improve my cardiovascular fitness. Okay, Well, then I there's a there's a recipe for improving your cardiovascular fitness that you need to expose your body to that stimulus, to that recipe in order for that adaptation.

00;19;16;08 - 00;19;33;28

Okay. Well, I want to get stronger. All right. Well, there's a recipe for developing strength, muscular strength. And I need to put that stimulus on my body in order for that recipe. So I look at it like baking. It's just like it's like baking in a kitchen, like a chef. You want to bake cookies? Okay, well, you need flour, you need sugar.

00;19;33;29 - 00;19;51;19

You need also kind of fat. You need what you need These ingredients. Okay. But you got to mix them together at this ratio, and you're going to bake them in the oven at this temperature for this duration. And then why you got to cook? All right, well, what is it that you want your body to be able to do?

00;19;51;21 - 00;20;19;28

What do you think needs to be elevated? Would it be strength, power, speed, capacity, endurance, whatever? Well, what's the recipe for that? And then you apply that to the body, to recovery. There's your adaptation. And so if you think about, like, a hierarchy of those things, I would say that, again, dealing with movement and specifically exercise, you want to improve your overall performance.

00;20;20;00 - 00;20;44;18

The foundation of human performance is fundamental movement. What that means is, Chris, that you're able to move functionally as a human being without pain. So think of pain free function. Right. You can bend, you can twist, you can squat, you can lunge. You can push, you can pull, you can rotate. Right now, you can do that without pain.

00;20;44;18 - 00;21;12;10

And it's functional. That's the foundation. Now, in terms of capacities, your foundational capacity for movement is your aerobic system. If you don't have like if you don't have you have floor aerobics, aerobic capacity. And again, for those who are listening right when you move, your body needs to produce energy to move. The energy molecule is known as ATP.

00;21;12;12 - 00;21;38;24

Right. So the sun here's something great. The sun shines on the earth. Plants through photosynthesis convert that to carbohydrate. Either we eat the plant or animals eat the plant. Long story short, everything you eat comes from photosynthesis. In a day, we convert that to an energy molecule called ATP that's necessary for movement. Okay, Now you can produce ATP in a couple of ways.

00;21;38;27 - 00;22;10;05

You can do it in the presence of oxygen. Right. And that is aerobic energy metabolism. So aerobic energy metabolism is very sustainable. I can just do that for long durations. Well, as the intensity increases, then it takes too long to use oxygen to produce energy. Therefore, I have to use other means. Right. I have to create energy in the absence of oxygen and that your anaerobic energy metabolism.

00;22;10;07 - 00;22;36;10

All right. So your aerobic energy metabolism is the foundation, the probably the most foundational performance quality that we need. And so if you're if you're out of shape. Okay, you haven't been running or haven't been doing anything for a while. And, you know, now I go upstairs and I'm breathing hard while doing interval training. At that point in time, I would say would not be the best place to start.

00;22;36;12 - 00;23;00;05

The best place to start would be doing some kind of longer, lower intensity type of work to build some aerobic capacity as a foundation so that now I can go do some more higher intensity interval work. But I need that aerobic base there. So your aerobic foundation will move that pain free functional movement is your foundation building anaerobic capacity base for movement.

00;23;00;07 - 00;23;24;19

Those two things set the stage for your overall performance. Okay, from there it is functional or whatever baseline level of strength that you need to do your life. So I'd say next thing in line with the big would be strength. And when I say strength, Chris, I'm not talking about getting under a heavy bar and how much can you bench press and how much can you squat?

00;23;24;25 - 00;23;46;00

Okay. That's a very relative term. Right. So essentially, how much strength do I need to produce the power necessary for my life? And that's very different for each person based upon their life is. But but yeah, I know I'm still kind of stamped on the spot here, but this is super important, Chris, because, again, it's part of your hierarchy of values.

00;23;46;00 - 00;24;06;11

Like you don't know what to do. You're sedentary. Like you're the trifecta, that you're overweight, you're sedentary, and you've been full of excuses. You're like, Man, I need to get up and get going. Okay? Right. Get up and start walking. So I'm going to go outside and I'm going to go walk for the next half hour to an hour.

00;24;06;14 - 00;24;23;02

And I'm going to build that into a habit. And as I start building these new habits, I'm going to start, Larry, more and more. But again, I've got to get up and get going. And your work system is like foundation to that. Got it. So thanks for that. And to anybody there that we're getting a little bit deeper because we're talking about incremental additions.

00;24;23;04 - 00;24;55;29

Right. So the fundamentals that you're speaking of, as we're just talking at high level and we're we're sprinkling in a little bit of this and that to give you a little bit more information that supports the idea of why do I like that? Because the ATP, the starting slow, you know, these elements of saying in a real world scenario where most of us now are technology focused to where we stop or we're looking down our natural body movements and repetition of that is conditioning our bodies to now shape itself with the the back, the neck, the hips.

00;24;56;02 - 00;25;13;26

So all of these things that are connected, I like that you're breaking it down that way because it's the element of understanding, because it can be discouraging. I'm focused on the computer. I'm sitting even though I have a standing desk, I forget to stand up all of these little things that we're just pushing off when we just talk about this like it's already July.

00;25;13;26 - 00;25;34;11

I can't believe it's the half of the year's already gone by. You look back and say, I haven't really done what I had usually had been doing physically for a couple of months now. And we did. We lost track of time. So let me go pick up where I left off and then I injure myself for that pain free component isn't real for me.

00;25;34;11 - 00;25;54;14

I always have pain now. So this is what you're talking about is starting to understand these things to where if you were gradually implementing something to get used to that the adaptation. Yep. Now you can move on to the next step and build from that. But if you start somewhere in the middle and your diet and your rest, all of these things aren't factored into that.

00;25;54;16 - 00;26;16;06

That mindset shifts because you're not seeing the returns that you expect because we all want that immediate gratification, right? So hopefully I summarize that. But that leads to the next thing that I think you want to talk about. Yeah. So when you think about where do you want to go? Yeah, get out of your mind that I want a quick fix.

00;26;16;08 - 00;26;36;03

Think to yourself, like, let's say, for example, that you feel like, Man, I need to lose. I need to lose £20. Okay, well, let your goal be. I want to be I want to lose that £20 a year from now. I want to be £20 lighter this time next year as a result of the changes that I make.

00;26;36;05 - 00;27;01;06

If you wanted to, you could go on some strict ketogenic diet or a very strict, more restrictive diet that's unsustainable for you potentially, and lose that £20 in the next six weeks. But however, a year from now I see you and you gained it back, What good was it? And that's the world we live in. And so everybody is like, Oh, how do I do this?

00;27;01;06 - 00;27;24;04

Like, no, no, no. Like what good is it if if like, I'm doing things that are unsustainable, even though it gives me some immediate results. But a year I said the best training program is not is whatever you're still doing a year from now. That's the best training program not on what what what New Year's resolution that I jumped on to in January.

00;27;24;08 - 00;27;52;05

I made some changes for my my cruise and I'm going on in May and then boom, by Christmas next year, I'm more of a way than I was in start in January. And so mindset being I'm going to look at this as I want. I want the few my my version of my future self, the Anthony that I'm going to that's going to be here in September, December next year, 2025, to be better than who used to do.

00;27;52;07 - 00;28;10;03

And I'm on I'm going to do that with a long term plans and will choose things that are sustainable that I can do with consistency and sustainability. Listen to me and I'm not anybody else. I'm like a lot of people were if I look at carbohydrates, I gained weight right when I was 20, when I was 25 years old.

00;28;10;03 - 00;28;36;22

Chris I could change the way that I ate and in a week I would look down on my stomach. I'd be flat like washboard body. Now I could change the way I eat my body as I'm turning 40 this year, right? So my body is changing. So I look at carbs and I start gaining weight. Well, like anybody else, it's like, Oh, man, I'm gonna listen to all these podcasts and you talk to the people around, you know, these methods around nutrition, and it's like, Oh, I want to go on the keto diet and see if I can, you know, make the changes are serious, make it.

00;28;36;24 - 00;29;00;19

Well, then I walk in a house one day after a week of doing Kita and my daughter has baked some cookies and she's so proud of me and she's like, Dad, dad, dad, you got to try this like I made this just for you. I mean, the cookie purist. Yeah, but I like that. Yeah. You know, it's because, you know, it's funny about that.

00;29;00;21 - 00;29;18;22

And I'm holding up a cookie for that same scenario happened to me yesterday. It's still sitting here because I took it. Because what you're supposed to. You should. Yeah, I haven't eaten it yet because I got to think about the things that you were talking about. I knew we were going to talk. I'm like, Why eat a cookie?

00;29;18;24 - 00;29;53;13

Well, here's here's the thing. I can have that cookie. I just can have 20 of them and I can't have it every day. Right? And so it's it's the simple things done savagely. Well, the point is, like, the thing I really I really harp on our tactic of population is sustainability. Because if again if you're a training program, if this is not something you can do a year or two years, three years from now and your training hurts you like you're training, well, I'll be honest with you, there's a there's a really good I listen to.

00;29;53;13 - 00;30;17;28

If you know who Pablo is, he was the guy. He's like the he's like the kettlebell guru. He was on the Rogan podcast a few years ago talking about training, and he said some really, really good things around training that I think is was really good because we don't we don't appreciate how much the powerlifting industry, bodybuilding industry has influenced the way that we train.

00;30;18;00 - 00;30;46;03

And so he fleshes that out. Then he also says, like you should when you a training program, you should feel energized and good after your workout, not destroyed in beat down and hurting after your workout. And he used an example. He said some of the greatest power letters of all time came. He he asked a question, How often do you think that they maxed out on their lives?

00;30;46;05 - 00;31;08;03

How often these power letters maxed out on their debt, left their squad to their bench? And the answer was only a competition, only time that they ever Max is a competition. Chris When I was in my high school college days, I maxed out every single time I trained like every day. I was like maxing out on something. Okay?

00;31;08;03 - 00;31;38;11

And so the concept of minimal effective dose when it comes to training is the is the answer. So if if if one Tylenol takes away my headache, why would I take the whole bottle? So what do I need from a training stimulus going back to the what? What are my goals? What am I trying to accomplish? What am I trying to improve my performance for some job or sport or competition or am I just looking for quality of life?

00;31;38;13 - 00;31;59;01

Like what? What am I trying to do here? And then let that guide again the decisions that I make around the type of stimulus that I put on my body. Yeah. And that I think that's where where we get into the the the intersect of perception and reality. Right. It's I perceive I need to do a bunch of things.

00;31;59;05 - 00;32;18;16

I don't know how long I'm supposed to do these exercises like a 20 minute you know this is like the late night TV ad you know, or, you know, the the snake oil thing where 20 minutes you can have abs like this 20 minutes a week or 20 minutes a day, you know, And there's a lot of doubt that's placed into these functional components to where it's different.

00;32;18;16 - 00;32;39;17

It's different than the traditional idea of what we've had. On how you have to do certain things to get to look or be perform in a certain way. So what are some of the basics that we have to start with to understand? Ed Because you've touched on it. Yeah, you know, it's the mindset, it's the plan, you know, what do you want to do?

00;32;39;19 - 00;33;13;18

The goals, the values. All right. So here's a really good here's a really good goal. If you are just looking at how do you take care of yourself and this is for anybody I need to shoot for 30 minutes of of exercise or I would say aerobically challenging exercise at least five days a week. Supplement that with 2 to 3 days a week of resistance training, which is anything that's pushing against your force, right?

00;33;13;19 - 00;33;39;08

Resistance is you're applying some kind of extra load in the body that you're having to move. You move against that choosing like large compound movements. Okay, So don't think of it through the lens of bodybuilding where, oh, I'm going to change. I'm going to go chest, chest today, triceps, chest and tries back. And guys, we won't train Maguire's Now think of training movement on a push on a pole.

00;33;39;11 - 01;09;18;27

I can push and pull my upper body. I can push and pull with my lower body. I can do it with one arm. I can do it with two arms. I can alternate arms. , I can push and pull my lower body with one leg or two legs. And so think of this idea of pushing, pulling in terms of your core.

00;33;55;18 - 00;34;18;05

You can you have two functions of the core. You have stability where I'm having to brace in Reservist movement. So think of like a plank. Then you have propulsive type movements and that's where I'm transferring energy through my core, through a series of flexing and rotating. So imagine me doing like a like a medicine, like a rotational medicine ball onto the wall.

00;34;18;07 - 00;34;38;11

If you look at how the core moves, the core does those two things. It stabilizes my spine, which is number one. So this number two is it transfers energy through my body. And so if I want to think of functional training, I want to train my core through stability or compulsive movements. I want to train the upper body in a lower body through a series of pushing and pulling actions.

00;34;38;13 - 00;34;55;25

Speaker 2

Now, there's nothing wrong with you isolating a muscle, right? You can do a calf raise, you can do a bicep curl. But that should be the the the sprinkles on top of the cake. It should not be the cake. So if my goal is meant I don't know what I'm like, here's an example. I'm going to I don't know where to start.

00;34;55;25 - 00;35;14;17

Well, I'm going to start walking for a half hour every day. I can that and I will do that five days a week. And then some will say, I could do that. I could do that every day, which you could, let's say minimal five days a week. It's 30 minutes of aerobic activity. And I want to do 2 to 3 days a week of some type of resistance training.

00;35;14;19 - 00;35;37;22

And that could start out with just mainly your bodyweight or even using something like a, you know, a TR x suspension where you're able to use your body weight. But you're you're you're you're using angles and levers to like potentially not even use your whole body weight. Right. And I'm doing pushing and pulling. I can just do upper body one day, lower body one day, or I could do a combination of upper and lower the total body the same day.

00;35;37;24 - 00;35;57;10

And so you can choose a combination of those things. But the goal is, you know, half hour, five days a week, 2 to 3 days a week of resistance training, maybe a goal to start with. Okay. So let's say like if I was going to give you like now from having said that, I gave you kind of the answer to the test part.

00;35;57;12 - 00;36;31;03

Let's walk through let's walk through my mindset around how am I going to develop like a training plan for myself? Number one is it starts with what's your goal? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to accomplish just overall quality of life? Then? Okay, Or like I'm to I'm in a general state of physical preparations. GPP It's a I don't need constant progressive overload if I'm just focused on quality of life.

00;36;31;06 - 00;36;55;07

If you're focused on quality of life, look at training the same way you look at brushing and flossing your teeth. When I'm brushing my teeth, I don't progress my teeth brushing from 2 minutes to 20 minutes. I do this. I do it for 2 minutes and I've lost because that's a maintenance activity. Well, if you're in a if you just look at the quality of life, you're training is more of a maintenance activity.

00;36;55;10 - 00;37;14;08

So I don't need to constantly do heavier weight, run further, run faster. I don't need to always keep pushing the envelope if I'm just looking for pure quality of life. However, if I'm wanting to move the needle right and I want to improve those factors, then I need progressive overload. So you establish that from that from the beginning.

00;37;14;08 - 00;37;34;28

That's important. Okay. From there you ask yourself this question How many days a week am I willing to commit to training? Is it once a once a week? Is it six days a week? What realistically can I do? And you schedule that in your schedule So.

00;37;34;28 - 00;37;46;17

That this pause on that one near to because because now we look at the time availability and the duration. Yep. This time of day matter to now factor in some other conditions and variables.

00;37;46;19 - 00;38;10;03

Oh man, I would not call myself an expert. And to answer that question, but I'll say this what time of day the do you feel like you can get that you can you can sustain it and get the most out of your training. So, for example, let's say that I think that it's best to wake up first thing in the morning and train in the fasted state.

00;38;10;05 - 00;38;29;18

Well, what if you don't? What if you're not an early morning person and you do that for the first week? Bye bye Week three, you quit because it wouldn't sustainable for you. Okay, then that wasn't a right thing to do. Okay, so what time can you do it? And you actually continue to do it, right? That's that's the most important thing in my opinion.

00;38;29;21 - 00;38;47;29

Got it. So if if I'm going to. But because it doesn't stop there. Right. Because your first question is how much time? And then in my head it's. Well, that time is dictated by my day. So if I'm looking at, well, in the morning, I can give you X number, but if I do it in the afternoon, I can do X.

00;38;47;29 - 00;38;57;22

But my whole days past I probably eaten some things. And so whatever I'm doing in the morning, my, my, my energy levels might be different. And so I'm also looking at that.

00;38;57;22 - 00;39;24;18

So yeah, so, so I would say that I think I think that for somebody who is in our stage of life, knock it out first thing in the morning is going to probably be the best thing to do because I have so many other things competing for my attention in my time throughout the day. Also, I train better again from a quality of life training plan when I have it meeting a ton that day, like I have a little bit of fuel in my body, but I'm not.

00;39;24;18 - 00;39;35;20

I haven't. It's not. I haven't had breakfast and lunch and then I'm going to go get a workout in. No, it's like maybe I go first thing in the morning or I do something mid-morning wrap before I eat lunch would be ideal. Well, that's.

00;39;35;27 - 00;39;39;14

That's you factoring in you. So we're talking about time. Yeah.

00;39;39;19 - 00;40;01;25

So for somebody else, they may say, well, I've got to be at work at 6 a.m. and I prioritize my sleep so I can't get up like Jocko at 4 a.m. and training. So I'm going to but I'm going to I'm going to make sure that I get off at 3:00 in the afternoon. So I'm going to I'm going to go train for 3 to 345 or 3 to 4 as I transition to go home.

00;40;01;27 - 00;40;05;03

And so you're going to find what time works for you is what I'm saying.

00;40;05;05 - 00;40;29;21

Yep. I'm and I'm just introducing the things that when you start to think about those times. Yeah, it's the other things about knowing yourself because it starts with yourself because creating the discipline through repetition, through the results and all those types of things. I'm just trying to make sure that we're all clear It's up to you. But you got to also you have to also consider other things when you land on that timeline.

00;40;31;26 - 00;40;33;14

Sorry to interrupt.

00;40;33;17 - 00;40;59;20

Yeah. So once you decide how many days a week I'm going to train, No, this something is better than nothing. So if you're trying to establish habits, right, if you're starting from zero one day a week is not going to move the needle for you. But one day a week is is stepping in the right direction. Right? So, again, depending on where you are, right, you've got to you got to start somewhere.

00;40;59;20 - 00;41;18;06

So I would say that in an ideal scenario, like I said, you're doing sort of five days a week, okay, But you're establishing how many days a week am I going to train on the onset? The next question is how long each day do I have? Do I have 30 minutes? I can commit, I have an hour, I can do it.

00;41;18;08 - 00;41;39;06

Right. But again, you scheduled this out. Put this in your calendar, put this on your phone, put this in your Google calendar. Right. My train these days at these times for this duration. And even if you say I don't feel like it getting up and still doing it, doing something, even if it's like I'm going to skip my workout, but just go for my walk that morning, build the habit of that becomes my routine.

00;41;39;06 - 00;42;03;07

I schedule it into my day. Okay, Now, once I've done that, this is what my goals are. Here's no John to accomplish. This is how many days a week an injury. This is the duration of those dates. Then it's a matter saying, okay, well then what am I going to do for that 60 minutes? Right. Well, you've got three big categories that number one is you need to warm up.

00;42;03;10 - 00;42;29;02

And two is you need to do need to train. Number three is you need to recover. All right. So let's look at the warmup. They think about your body like if you're going to you have to prime your system to go move. Okay. So there's a there's a three step process that we use for that. Number one is soft tissue.

00;42;29;05 - 00;43;02;17

Number two is mobility. Number three is activation. So the soft tissue is like maybe we use a foam roller, right? I want to I grab a form rule massage stick. I do something to maybe hit some key areas of the body as a way to create some like some like neural relaxation in the tissue. I'm opening a windows around, get more of my mobility work When it comes to mobility, if you look at the human body, the human body, Chris alternates between areas of mobility and stability.

00;43;02;19 - 00;43;28;17

And so the three areas of the body that you have to have good mobility are the ankles, your hips, thoracic spine. If you don't have proper mobility at the ankles, hips and a thoracic spine, that is going to significantly impact the way that you move. So I would do something to work on fit mobility, thoracic spine mobility or income mobility.

00;43;28;20 - 00;43;48;13

If you have poor hip mobility, you're probably going to compensate at the low back and order of the news. So you'll compensate above and below. So people that don't have good hip mobility typically flex of their spine when they should be flexing to their hips. So all of a sudden now I have low back problems because of lack of proper movement, everything else.

00;43;48;15 - 00;44;15;17

If you have poor or anchor mobility, oftentimes you're going to compensate at the knees and or the low back. So knees will take a hit, low back or thick and hip. If I have poor hip mobility and mobility, when I say income mobility, I'm talking specifically around primarily around ankle dorsiflexion. So if you look at the ankle thing of the ankle, you can almost think of the angle like a ball and socket joint, even though it's not technically ball and socket, that ankle is going to move 360 degrees.

00;44;15;19 - 00;44;25;21

Okay, It needs to have that movement. But the ankle dorsiflexion is very, very important in order for me to properly be able to absorb forces is underneath.

00;44;25;24 - 00;44;29;28

And that's basically your knee goes moves the toes and.

00;44;30;00 - 00;44;46;01

So you take it and if you were to go you to take a knee on the ground and let your foot flat down and see how far can I push my knee or my toe, that's ankle dorsiflexion. If you lacked that ankle dorsiflexion, then you're going to have issues.

00;44;46;03 - 00;45;00;09

Yeah. So what what I'm hearing in this point when you're when you're warming up is to consider these little things and how they when you're feeling it somewhere, it's probably not that place that you feel it is the cause safe to say it's starting somewhere else?

00;45;00;14 - 00;45;20;22

Listen, most of the time when people have like a tight low back where people have a tight move X, they're often their go to is, I want to go stretch my lower back and I'm like, No, no, don't do that. Your lower your lumbar spine needs to be stable. Your your hips need mobility and your upper spine, your thoracic spine need mobility.

00;45;20;25 - 00;45;30;01

And so if you have a tight low back, don't stretch your lower back, stretch your hips and stretch your thoracic spine, and that you will see improvements in your family with your lower back.

00;45;30;01 - 00;45;38;17

Those that's a common misunderstanding. Meaning over time, my shoes, my back is hurting up and then all of a sudden I'm focused on. So what you're saying is.

00;45;38;17 - 00;45;40;27

Here's what'll happen, though, Chris, is you'll make it worse.

00;45;40;27 - 00;45;42;05

I'm just going to say. Yeah.

00;45;42;07 - 00;46;02;22

Yes. So? So when the body senses so here. So. So think about it, right? If you walked on a on like a frozen lake, like walking on ice and tennis shoes, your body senses instability. What does your body do? Does it does it tighten or does it get loosey goosey, loosey? No, tighten up tightens up. Right. So your senses instability.

00;46;02;28 - 00;46;24;20

It tightens up. Okay. Well, your lumbar spine is an area of the body that needs stability. It is the highway of your nervous system, essentially. Right. It needs stability, lumbar spine. It's going to move, but it's not a lot of movement there. Well If you sense the body senses instability in lumbar spine, muscles around your spine will tighten up to guard.

00;46;24;23 - 00;46;43;15

So you let's say you go to bend over your body. Your body senses a like a like a shift or an instability in your spine bone. You'll see muscles start tightening up. You're like your cue. Your cue will tighten up. You're like your your glute me will tighten up. And oftentimes and those muscles tighten up. That causes a referral pattern of pain.

00;46;43;16 - 00;47;12;13

So, for example, you may have low back pain. That low back pain is due to the muscle in your glute like a glute. Me That muscle is like neurologically in a in a hyper tone position or state and that's causing the pain in your lower back. So actually if you got on a lacrosse ball or a medicine ball or a foam roller and you massage the muscles in your glutes, that would like that potentially could alleviate the pain you're feeling your lower back.

00;47;12;15 - 00;47;35;01

Now, this is this is again, this is me just saying gross generalization is right. So if you have back pain, there could literally be a thousand different reasons why you have back pain. Some of them could be serious and some of them could be minor, like I'm talking about. That could like, usually the things I'm talking about is when if you have back pain, but there is no mechanism of injury like you don't I don't remember hurting my back.

00;47;35;04 - 00;47;55;29

This is my back's really tired is bothered me most of the time. That's due to like neural tension in muscles that are above and below the low back. That could be due to poor movement to the hips or the spine that you could fix through, again, soft tissue of the hips, mobility of the hips. And again, hip. We're talking hip extension and flexion.

00;47;55;29 - 00;48;17;20

But specifically, hear me on this. If you lack hip internal rotation. So imagine you lay down and I grab your foot and I can twist your foot like I can rotate your leg and you're rotating your leg inward like your toe is going toward the other. Your toe is tilting toward the other leg. That's hip. I are like a lot of people who lack.

00;48;17;23 - 00;48;45;18

I are relaxed. Hip air. You're going to have issues with like squatting. So if you don't if you don't if your hips don't instantly rotate when you basically squat, you're going to typically create that mobility or compensated to low back after that. So going back to what I'm saying here, if I'm going to warm up the three areas and I want to make sure I got good mobility is your ankles, your hips and your thoracic spine.

00;48;45;21 - 00;49;03;21

Okay, Stay away from stretching your lower back. If someone's going to stretch your lower back, it's your physical therapist that has you on a table that knows what you're doing is you're not laying on the ground. Doing on a cross is a sling. Your leg across your body is trying to stretch it because you probably will make things worse by doing that.

00;49;03;23 - 00;49;10;10

I think I think it's at this point, everybody knows they messed up. Oh.

00;49;10;12 - 00;49;12;02

Yeah, I was very guilty of that.

00;49;12;05 - 00;49;33;12

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's it's the common thing. It hurts there. Let me, let me do this. And so I think that's and that's what Anthony I appreciate that level of detail because the reality is warming up is an element of what it takes to even do the walk before doing things because it depends on where you are in your life stage and your experiences of how your body's been traumatized or whatever.

00;49;33;15 - 00;49;44;24

Yeah, that you have to account for the little things first because of the fact that there's a it may or may not be the bigger muscle that is the that is the issue.

00;49;44;26 - 00;50;09;01

All right. So let's say you go for Urso, you want to go for a run, you wake up and you're like, Man, I just ate too much of you. I want to try to combat this. And so you just get up, all shoot on, push for time. I'm just going to tie my shoes on and go in about, I don't know, 100 yards into your run, your little back starts tightening up on you and you start feeling some knee pain on one side.

00;50;09;03 - 00;50;39;23

It's highly possible if you took 10 minutes, 5 minutes and did some ankle mobility work and you did some active range and most of stretching where you work through the pattern of like hip extension flexion to spine, if you did basically some dynamic stretches. One of them if you look at like world's greatest stretch elbow to instep rotate the hamstring so there's many things you can do if you took 5 minutes to prime the body.

00;50;39;25 - 00;51;03;13

Okay. Aside from you having like a, you know, injury or dysfunction in your running technique, chances are you were still better at that same point in time on your run than you would have felt if by just getting up and loosen up and go. But Chris Moore pushed for time, which we all are. What is the number one thing we skimp on your warmup.

00;51;03;16 - 00;51;19;23

Yeah. No, I was just going to say, you know, you got an hour, you have an hour for lunch, you're working, you know, you have that meeting and then you got to get in and out within the hour to not only do do your exercise, but then come back, get it, cool down and get back camera ready. Yeah.

00;51;19;25 - 00;51;37;01

So we do that. So again, just driving the emphasis, you know, in part of your plan, the little things matter. You can't just go all out thinking that I'm only going to do it today. I'll skip it today because the, the mindset again is that longevity, you know, understanding the impact of what happens. And I must say I relate to that.

00;51;37;04 - 00;51;37;26

No.

00;51;37;28 - 00;51;41;25

Go out cold and your knee starts hurting. Back hurts.

00;51;41;28 - 00;51;43;02

Yeah.

00;51;43;04 - 00;51;44;22

So we're warming up.

00;51;44;25 - 00;52;04;01

All right. So let's say you from your system, right? You've you've you've got your body ready to go. The next thing is you want to train. So what training stimulus are you going to put in your body for that day? Are you just going to do some cardiovascular work? Is it going to be is it going to be equipment based like conditioning?

00;52;04;03 - 00;52;18;08

Like I said, 30 minutes where you get your heart rate up and like a zone to where I can I can still carry on a conversation. But I don't like to ask, is it going to be that again? Choose something that you can do. Is it going to be go for a run is going to be any kind of any kind of equipment?

00;52;18;13 - 00;52;34;11

Right. Again, how you how you lay it out. If you said, I'm going to train, I'm going to train five days a week, well, five days a week, I'm going to three days a week. I'm going to do cardiovascular training two days a week. I'm on a straight train, potentially, whatever that looks like. You can make that happen.

00;52;34;11 - 00;52;54;27

But then so would you warm up? You're going to put the training in the sun. So let's say I'm straight training, okay? I'm looking for balancing out through my week all the basic movement patterns of the body. I need to push and pull my upper body or support my lower body. I can do it one arm or two arms, one leg or two legs.

00;52;54;27 - 00;53;15;24

So hypothetically speaking, I'm going to do an upper body pushing day that day here, lower body pulling. So I'm going to do like a dumbbell bench press. My pair that up and a circuit with a, you know, a kettlebell Romanian deadlift I can already out there doing that is a example of a lower body pull. You're training the back of your legs, right?

Picking up where we left off from our first EXOS episode with Anthony Hobgood, who shared the foundation of EXOS and a summary of the EXOS mission, Stefan breaks down 3 pillars of the EXOS methodology – Psychological Drivers, Performance Capacity, and Functional State. While setting us up with how he came to be in his current position, Stefan laid the framework for us to know how the role he earned brings people together who specialize in the variety of expertise necessary to tailor the treatments to the individuals and meet them where they are so they can get them ready. From individuals, athletes, to businesses or military…Be Ready as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - https://www.teamexos.com/athlete/military - [email protected] - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;03

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this episode of our EXOS series, I'm joined by our guest, Stefan Underwood, senior vice president of Methodology at EXOS.

00;00;28;07 - 00;01;01;06

Picking up where we left off from our first EXOS episode with Anthony Hopgood, who shared the foundation of EXOS and a summary of the EXOS mission. Stefan breaks down three pillars of the EXOS methodology psychological drivers, performance capacity and functional state, while setting us up with how he came to be in his current position, Stefan laid out the framework for us to know how the role he earned brings people together who specialize in the variety of expertise necessary to tailor the treatments to the individuals and meet them where they are so they can get them ready from individuals, athletes to businesses or military.

00;01;01;09 - 00;01;22;27

Be ready as we continue the mission to serve. Stefan's contact details are in the podcast Description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family. Stefan How are you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing well. Chris Thanks. Thanks for having me on and doing really well and playing.

00;01;22;27 - 00;01;39;12

Been on the road the last couple of weeks, so it's my first day back in office and it's good to be home. Yeah, well, traveling is nice, I bet, huh? You know, it's it's it's good. It's one of those things. Goldilocks grateful, right? Like too much of it starts to grate, but I also start to lose my mind at home.

00;01;39;18 - 00;01;57;22

Non stop the right amount. The right amount does the trick. I find. So yeah, I had a couple a couple weeks of travel to spend some time in Phenix with teammates, which was fantastic. And then I just got back from New York to work and again with the company and doing a doing a little bit of a course for one of our clients.

00;01;57;26 - 00;02;18;15

So back home now and ready to focus. But it's great to be talking to you today. Yeah, likewise. And I'm excited and thanks for for taking the time to do your schedule. I mean, that's just an example, I'm sure, how busy you are. So very grateful for your your time and affording us the opportunity to get in some details and pick up a little bit from where we left off with with Anthony on on the first episode.

00;02;18;15 - 00;02;48;02

And so for everybody listening, you know, EXOS is one of the leading organized nations in performance management. Today we have Stefan Underwood, who's a senior vice president of Methodology, that will specifically talk about the next pillar or the component of what makes us or gives us an opportunity to think about how we can be better in not only just in the things that we do from a physical component, but also the mindset and nutrition and all all those things coming together.

00;02;48;02 - 00;03;04;21

So, Stefan, if you wouldn't mind just and you can start from wherever you wish, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be where you are. Yeah, I appreciate it. So I guess we can start with that title you do there. Senior Vice President Methodology People look at me and say, What does that mean?

00;03;04;26 - 00;03;29;17

You know, it's not a common title. And I think that fits with my whole career. I keep trying to figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up, and 20 years later, I'm still sometimes trying to figure it out. But is senior vice President methodology what that means? We have this methodology team at Excel, so we have we are a group of subject matter experts, which basically means I get to hang out with people a lot smarter than myself.

00;03;29;19 - 00;03;51;29

I've got a team with quite a few PhDs and we built the team in this intentional manner where we want to have a set number of individuals with a truly deep subject matter expertise. We've got a Ph.D. in applied neuroscience on the team who's an expert in flow state. We've got a clinical psychologist on the team, an executive coach.

00;03;52;02 - 00;04;24;28

We've got a Ph.D. in rehabilitative sciences and dietetics. We've got physio, physical therapists, we've got strength conditioning coaches. So we've got these people who have a deep domain expertise. I think what I bring to the team and what I've been fortunate enough to lead this team is if we call them vertical thinkers. I've always been a little bit of a horizontal thinker, so that ability to tie concepts together to create this holistic approach to how we view any problem of human performance.

00;04;25;00 - 00;04;48;19

So whether that's working in our work setting and saying, listen, burnout in the workplace, it's a real thing. How do we holistically view solving the problem of burnout in the workplace or whether we're looking at our NFL combine program and saying, Hey, you need to run faster? We're like, What does it take to physically, mentally in nutrition, nutrition, aspect to recovery?

00;04;48;19 - 00;05;07;02

Like how does it work? Does it take to have an individual run a faster 40? And then the same is true with the work we do in the tactical space, which is actually where I came into the company 12 years ago, was to work specifically in the tactical environment down in Gulf Breeze, Florida with Anthony. We worked together in the same facility for years.

00;05;07;02 - 00;05;28;19

I love the guy. He's fantastic and we have a variety of programs down there working with the tactical population and helping them get back to hopefully an individuals getting back to a place where they can deploy or at least they can separate on their terms if they're not able to get back to a place where they can deploy.

00;05;28;19 - 00;05;46;20

So that's called our accelerated return to duty. That's through a benevolent fund called the Eagle Fund. So in all those different aspects of our company, we want to say, you know, what's the holistic approach to support the human in front of us? Like there's a person standing in front of us, they've got something that's meaningful to them and how do we support them?

00;05;46;20 - 00;06;16;14

And that takes everything from psychology to nutrition to movement to all the different things I mentioned. So that's what our methodology team is meant to be as that sort of central team of subject matter experts in our company. Got it. Nice tone of questions coming up. I can already feel it circulate in my head. What got you interested in this field when you first came in before Access kind of lead us up to that that passion or was it purpose or accident?

00;06;16;17 - 00;06;41;01

A little bit about a little bit of everything? It's a good question. So I feel like I was a kid growing up. Sports was my life. I felt most at home when I was moving. I came from a really highly academic family and my father's a really bright man with multiple degrees and my brother's got four degrees with a Ph.D. in quantum physics.

00;06;41;01 - 00;07;04;21

And I was at like, I almost all like the black sheep either. But I think what was cool about that was, you know, I credit my father a lot with not putting a pressure on me to be something I'm not and saying, listen and like it's that's it feels your fire. You have this passion for movement, sports, exercise, whatever get go pursue that like who cares what it leads to.

00;07;04;21 - 00;07;22;27

You don't have to think about what your job is going to be right now, but, you know, go pursue that. So I got into kinesiology with no idea what I would do with it. I did not have a career in mind and I'm not I've never been one of the people with a five year plan, ten year plan, and I'm not about that.

00;07;23;01 - 00;08;03;15

I'm the worst person for interns to talk to because I feel like I just wouldn't do the best work I could finding something I enjoyed doing. And when a door would open, I'd say, Yeah, that sounds good, I'll do that. I was the person who said yes to everything. And so as I as I walked through my career, starting off almost accidentally as a strength and conditioning coach, which was my background, starting 20 years ago, I started working with youth athletes like a lot do, moved to Indianapolis, Indiana, and got a great opportunity with a group, their constituents in sport performance, where they started getting exposed to some pro athletes and the first pro athlete

00;08;03;15 - 00;08;25;25

I worked with I remember was an IndyCar driver and like I know nothing on NPR, I've never driven IndyCar. I thought it was comical that they needed a strength and conditioning coach. I'm like, You're driving a car, buddy. Like the gas is on the right, brakes on the left, and I don't even know where your clutch is, but it made me step back and view human performance as a puzzle.

00;08;25;27 - 00;08;43;02

I said, What are the pieces to this puzzle? And I have always been a real curious and inquisitive person, so I stepped back and started investigating what an Indiana driver needed and what I learned, even though I had never driven any car, was, you know, through a heart rate monitor on them for for a race and learned it for two and a half hours.

00;08;43;02 - 00;09;08;08

His heart rate was humming around like 167 and understanding that he's pulling 4 to 6 g's for about 5 seconds at a time, every 18 seconds on repeat for like 2 hours. And so just to understand what are the physical and mental demands associated with with that sport, and I supported it. And I think that's one of the areas where I've maybe managed to carve out a little bit of a spot for myself in this industry.

00;09;08;08 - 00;09;32;21

Is, you know, the ability to step back and look at the puzzle and not necessarily being the person who has had to be in those shoes. I wasn't a football player that worked with football athletes. You know, my sport background is mostly rugby was the sport I played at the highest level and I've only worked with a few rugby players, you know, But so next up was Skeleton Athlete.

00;09;32;21 - 00;09;49;05

I worked with an Olympic skeleton athlete. Skeleton is for those that don't know, it's not a sport, it is an Olympic sport. The Winter Olympics skeleton is like luge. You're going down the bobsleigh track with your on your stomach going face first with no brakes. And again, I just started looking at what are the physical demands. You've got to start.

00;09;49;08 - 00;10;08;18

You've got to be able to sprint from these positions. You've got this long to accelerate a certain amount. Then you got to load onto your sled and then you're pulling G-forces. And how do you see you're in control? And again, just try and break the code, break a puzzle. So I was 15 years ago, I had an opportunity.

00;10;08;18 - 00;10;28;15

I was working in hockey at the time. I got an opportunity to head out to Colorado Springs, to the National Strength and Conditioning Association, to be the manager of their international facility, their governing body, for an industry of strengthening conditioning. And the two biggest contracts that they had that I would be servicing. One was in hockey and that's what got my foot in the door.

00;10;28;15 - 00;10;44;29

It was with a one of the top D-1 college hockey teams in the nation coming out of college. And then the other one was the Special Forces out of Colorado Springs. And I guess I said enough of the right things in the in the interview process. But I had no experience working with the tactical population at that point in time.

00;10;45;02 - 00;11;11;00

And I had not walked in their shoes, nor did I pretend to. But I had a big respect for the population and felt a calling to really dive in more with that population. And I was really motivated and inspired to be able to, you know, meet these individuals and work with them and feel that I was supporting them in a completely by accident and changed the trajectory of my career.

00;11;11;02 - 00;11;40;22

And I, you know, I remember making about to work with them for a bit of a in 14 years ago, 13 years ago, maybe when together I made an intentional decision, said I don't need to work with athletes anymore. I'd like to support this this tactical population. And and this was way back when, you know, civilian support or strength and conditioning was just starting to take off within the so called community that was called the T program.

00;11;40;25 - 00;12;13;08

I was part of helping with that and running that conference when I was at the NSA. Two or three programs to the Army were just kicking off. But every everything was there wasn't there wasn't even one centralized approach yet for support. And so I had a couple education courses that were sort of like a train, the trainer or individuals to come in and learn about holistic strength and conditioning and how to take care of themselves and how to carry that when they're deployed, how to continue to put that together.

00;12;13;08 - 00;12;38;14

And I managed to get a job that's when I joined EEXOS. It was company called Athletes Performance at the time, and I joined to head up our tactical education and very intentionally wanted to hear that population. And so, so all that is to say, I think I've got a lot of different opportunities in my career because I just always said yes and didn't know what door would open.

00;12;38;14 - 00;12;56;11

But when I found a door that I was passionate, poured myself into it. And what it led me to was this feeling of being a jack of all trades. And the negative side of that is the master of none, right? And I felt like I could sort of in a lot of circles, but it felt like a jack of all trades.

00;12;56;13 - 00;13;24;17

And I was speaking with an individual friend of mine that I've known for a long time, was a great coach and this was several years ago now. So when you got to stop using the term jack of all trades, that because that devalues what you bring to a team because people think in master of none and he said what you have is broad spectrum competency and that is absolutely an asset that you can bring to any organization or any team.

00;13;24;20 - 00;14;04;29

You have the ability to tie things together so you can see where this is going on most days. Years ago, I was asked by EEXOS to step into more of a leadership role. I don't actively coach anymore, but to lead this team of domain experts and you know, that can be intimidating. I'm like, man, I'm just I'm sitting here with the higher education managing a team of these, but I'm able to do and because of realizing this broad spectrum competency and how to build frameworks and how to tie type concepts together and tie threads together, all paired with a career of looking at a human in front of me and saying, whatever it is you

00;14;04;29 - 00;14;25;06

want to do, whoever you are, you know, relative to you, what's important to you and how do we get you ready for that? Let me understand. Physically mental, emotionally, what you're going through. And then let's just understand human bodies, the human body. So let's draw from that broad spectrum competency and say these are the things that we think it all about the most.

00;14;25;08 - 00;14;50;09

And what led to what we're seeing our methodology team and where I am today within the company. Sorry, a long answer. No, that that's perfect and that that latter part that does it I can see where you're going with it and it comes together from a natural, innate ability where some of us don't recognize and I think it's kind of cool that your dad had recognized that and encouraged it.

00;14;50;12 - 00;15;14;04

And of course, we didn't talk in detail about how all that went down. But just a simple recognition of how you were applying, what you wanted to do, how it evolved. And you certainly got you contributed significantly to where you are today because of that curiosity being allowed to just generate on your own curiosity and then identify things and then totally associate with the master of none concept.

00;15;14;07 - 00;15;43;25

And I really like that broad spectrum competency phrase. It sounds a lot better, doesn't it? I mean, I'm still in it for sure because it does. Yeah, right. Is it a thing like is that a term that because now you boxed it in and now we can call it a name? I think so. I mean, like I said, I got I got it from I got from a coach and I know that we're to the US national soccer team worked with some pro teams in your other and I don't I don't even know where he got it from but the same thing him, I had the same response.

00;15;43;25 - 00;16;11;08

I said, I'm feeling that yeah I means now how I describe myself because the psychology of it, it's it's more accurate and because of how, you know, people will use it. And this is what the episode's about and phrases and things. But, you know, when, when we have a way of thinking, I think it is attributed to a way of thinking of the past and how we just automatically, we intuitively resort to a phrase or a way of thinking based off of how we've been brought up to consistently use that phrase.

00;16;11;08 - 00;16;42;20

And now without even thinking, we just refer to it as it's something where it does become cliche. And a lot of people, when you're talking about it, that could be the thing that could now. And you talked about with ten group saying the right things at the right time that could prevent you from being brought into based off of your skill set into an element that you can leverage that skill set to improve not only the people around you but yourself, because how we refer to things because it does undervalue what you've learned along the way, right?

00;16;42;25 - 00;17;06;14

And so, yeah, I believe in that. And again, it's not about the phrase, it's about the element. And in the other part of it too is the horizontal thinker, the visual that that painted. When you said that immediately had me understanding exactly what it meant, because there are those types, there's ones that understand things in a way that they're very specialized in their thinking and they wrap that into the things that they do.

00;17;06;16 - 00;17;27;15

And then there's some of us who don't have that skill set develop that way, and we can see the field, if you will see the play develop with the players along the way and knowing how to and this is like team building stuff, right, which is that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when it's done, you go back to reference, you know, you're right.

00;17;27;15 - 00;17;42;15

We didn't go deep into what I think what my what I want my dad afforded me and I appreciate I am of that but like it's been a hard time. I remember so many of my friends it's like I'm in this point in life. I've got to figure out the next steps. I got to. I got to get married.

00;17;42;20 - 00;17;57;00

Like I got to meet a girl, I got to get married, I got to buy a house and I got out my career. Guess that's what we got to do, right? Like in whatever order is going to happen and Dad was really good about, like, man, like, sometimes you can let life come to you. I think you don't have to rush everything.

00;17;57;03 - 00;18;25;22

And and so here we are like, look, I always had a big chip on my shoulder. I was, you know, I'm surrounded by individuals with higher education. I said I came from an academic family, like if nothing more than just to stick it to my brother, who's got all these degrees in this Ph.D. in quantum physics. I always felt like I should do more and immediately see, I would have I would have been doing it for the wrong reasons, not because I would have just done a master's or in in exercise science.

00;18;25;24 - 00;18;48;26

And honestly, what would that have done for me? It would have done things for sure, without doubt, but it would have just driven me deeper into one area of expertise, which I don't think lends itself well to who I am realizing I am as a horizontal thinker. And and so now here I am in my forties, and I actually have now gone back to school and am pursuing a master's now.

00;18;48;28 - 00;19;27;00

But it's an organizational psychology. I let life come to me. I found a passion that next passion, organizational psychology. I'm continuing to build the breadth of knowledge that applies to different situations. And if I would have in my twenties and thirties done a master's, there's no way it would have been work for psych. But here I am now pursuing a master's in organizational psychology to understand organizations and teams better to layer on top of my unique experience and strength and conditioning and human performance that allows me to understand the individual better and to be able to come out of problems in large organizations from both ends, from the top down organizationally with the bottom model,

00;19;27;00 - 00;19;56;10

how are you supporting the people that make up that organization? And so I appreciate it. I didn't feel the need to rush in. So here I am with two kids and I need a career and traveling and peace and in a master's on the side. But it's something that I'm finding really engaging now. I got it. And then it's a philosophical approach that manifest itself in the relationships that develop as a result of what you do in your field, in your line of work.

00;19;56;13 - 00;20;27;15

Does it translate to your clients? Because when when you have that in performance where there's no immediate gratification as a result of lifting a weight one time and all of a sudden you're there, that's relations has to develop, so let it come to you. So talk a little bit about that philosophical idea of the lessons you've learned and how you're able to sincerely deliver that as a component to help others be successful in what they're trying to get to.

00;20;27;18 - 00;20;54;11

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so Carol Dweck, many know the name in the Book of Mindset has written about mindset and coined the term, you know, time, a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. And I've always said like if you're going to work in strength and conditioning, you had better have a growth mindset because the pure fundamental belief that with effort in time you get better and then we can tie in.

00;20;54;11 - 00;21;13;04

Angela Duckworth, where she was the person who coined the term grit or came up with the concept of grit, right. This idea that persistence in the absence of immediate reward, if you don't have those two things and strength and conditioning is wrong for you because you just called it out, I don't squat once and be like, Well, damn, I'm stronger.

00;21;13;06 - 00;21;37;00

We have to put in an effort to seek an adaptation, to seek a change. And so I think that has been a core lesson. That has been one of the themes since I started my careers, you know, 20, 20 years ago. It because inherently when you're working with humans, you've got to recognize there's not always this instant gratification and so you've got to give it time.

00;21;37;03 - 00;21;59;06

And so that's one of the key things that I think has shaped things for me. And then the other when it comes to what we are going to talk about today and how people can get ready for a goal or the next chapter or whatever it is and how it's individualized to them is everyone is an and everyone everyone is their own person with their own background, their own goals, their own, their own everything.

00;21;59;08 - 00;22;39;16

And so the larger the tool belt that you can draw, the better the chance you can understand them and support them. And I think that that's been the strength of this unconventional path I've taken through my career and being this horizontal thinker and being a person who is curious. But seeks breadth of knowledge. Right. As well as depth and didn't just pursue one avenue really, because when you when you really think about what is supporting people, there's a there's a book that's called Where Good Ideas come From and it talks about the the adjacent possible.

00;22;39;19 - 00;23;06;23

And so it's this idea of if you look at where many good ideas have come from, let's take developing the an incubator for premature baby. One of the biggest developments in pediatric medicine, you know, has hugely changed the survival rate of premature babies breast as a species, right. That came from a doctor visiting a farm and seeing what had been done for ages before it.

00;23;06;24 - 00;23;31;08

Little chicks under a heat lamp right. So the adjacent possible is this taking a field that is adjacent to your field or an area of study or an area of thought that is adjacent to where you are and learning from them? And that's where the best ideas come from, the best innovation. And so there's this analogy of if you're building a house, right, like I can have one room call that room strength and conditioning and just keep putting more furniture in the room.

00;23;31;11 - 00;24;10;11

But that's just like, that's a blue couch and to paying out for those couches or I can study you learn from engage in adjacent fields and I can add another room to my house, right. And grill my house that way. And I think that that's what I've done through my career. And so now when we're in this position where we want to help someone get ready for whatever is in front of them, having that breadth of knowledge spanning from multiple aspects of human performance above the shoulders, below the shoulders, getting into psychology, neuroscience, all these different things and have a breadth of it, it helps you create a tailor approach versus being the guy who

00;24;10;11 - 00;24;26;12

shows up. Where there's the old expression of all you have is a hammer. You know, everything looks like a nail if you've only got one tool. And then that tool just I mean, it becomes snake oil, right? Chris, Let me tell you about. I got a fix for you. Yeah, it's the same thing that I recommended to those ten people before you.

00;24;26;12 - 00;24;53;03

But like, I've got the solution for you and it just becomes snake oil versus being able to meet people where they're at, seeing them as an individual, going back to the problem solving, understanding problem of human performance. They're trying to uniquely sell it and saying, listen, we've got to have a construct, if you will, in Texas. We've actually my team has built a model of human performance that explains a human in the world doing anything like doing something in the world.

00;24;53;05 - 00;25;13;10

And the categories we need to look through of how to support them. You start being able to create an individualized approach like set it and have one meet the person in front of you and then say, All right, let's let's help you achieve that goal. And I get to talking to a friend earlier, and we were making a distinction between attachment and commitment.

00;25;13;12 - 00;25;43;23

And I can't help as you're talking about this, an attachment to an approach, how it how it was, how you feel it should be. And you're talking about adjacent ideas or possible possibilities, which I we're going to get into this is the segway into that is is developing a bunch of people that not developing a team with a bunch of people that when an individual comes in yesterday could be different than what they come in today with is like, oh, something's Pynchon me here.

00;25;43;23 - 00;26;07;01

Oh well, that wasn't in our plan. Go to the other room that you're referring to in the analogy, go to the other room, let's fix that first and then we'll come back to the already scheduled program, which is the commitment instead of the attachment into an original plan. Because a plan is just a plan. You're committed to the philosophical approach of meeting people where they are, which is, I love that.

00;26;07;03 - 00;26;32;22

So let's get into it. So let's talk about the methodology. Yeah, absolutely. So I referenced that we created this model of human performance. We said, I mean, as a company, again, we we work with a lot of different populations in a lot of different areas, but we said we've got to find a Reddit thread between that person who's sitting in a corner.

00;26;32;23 - 00;27;03;10

We're in room versus that person who's a roughneck on an oil rig versus that person who's a nurse in a hospital environment versus that person who's in a tactical environment versus that athlete who earns their money from spot on and on and on and on Right. And the one thing that unites all those examples is that they're human. And so if we can say, let's let's say, what are all the things that we know, like poring through the literature, we know about humans, right?

00;27;03;10 - 00;27;25;01

And by no means do we claim to have it all solved. But if we can start honing a bit of a checklist together, coming up with what our key buckets are to look at, in any situation, it can create a consistent way of thinking that does not lead to cookie cutter approach for people. So this is what I love about methodology.

00;27;25;01 - 00;27;48;11

Some people hear methodology and I think of it as cookie cutter. Okay, so methodology. So this is the way you work out. If I come to excel, you do these things and no matter who I am, you do the same things. That's cookie cutter. I don't like that. Absolutely not. Methodology does not mean cookie cutter methodology is the the structure, the construct, the approach we take to meeting everybody on an individual level as a man of one.

00;27;48;14 - 00;28;08;24

And so we start by saying they're human. We ought to look at the elements that they're putting in front of us, and there's a lot we will go to all of them on this episode, purely because it would take too much time or probably more people. Not everything that's exciting to me is exciting to everybody else. I've learned that my wife reminds me all the time, but what I would say that really matters.

00;28;08;24 - 00;28;41;29

There's three things that jump out to me when a person is standing in front of us, physically or figuratively. The first is understanding what we call their psychological drivers. It's their why write it and sort of break down that more psychological drivers. We really talk about understanding over time their values, their goals and their motivations. Now, I say over time, because if we don't have a relationship, it we just matter about what you deeply value the most.

00;28;42;06 - 00;29;03;09

Like that isn't necessarily the best approach to getting that conversation. But I can start a goals. What are you trying to achieve? And I don't need to know why that's important to you just yet. Now, in the long run, coaching you. If I can build a meaningful relationship and trust and in time understand why that is important to you, then that's an even more successful coaching environment.

00;29;03;09 - 00;29;29;12

But upfront, I just need to know what your goal is. In fact, this has this this slogan, if you will get you ready. And we did not want it to just be a tagline or a slogan like we wanted it to have a meaning. And this construct, this framework provides the meaning behind that. But the very next question after someone says, like, If X gets you ready, the very next logical question has to be will get ready for what?

00;29;29;14 - 00;29;52;24

I need to know your goal. Even if the goal is to run a marathon, there's a difference between I'm trying to run my first marathon, I'm trying to qualify for Boston. I'm trying to win an Olympic gold in the marathon. All three of those things are different, even though the goal is still running a marathon. So I need to specifically understand the goals and then in time understand your motivations and your values as we build a relationship.

00;29;52;29 - 00;30;20;06

So we call all that your psychological drivers. The goal is what gives context to everything else, right? It's where it tells us what you need to be able to achieve, what skills and abilities you have to have to be able to achieve that goal. That brings us to the next category in our I'm always told to put the science away, but like we've labeled and I'm told I'm not a good marketer, but we label it performance capacity.

00;30;20;08 - 00;30;45;07

But it's a fancy way for saying like, what are your skills and your abilities? And we categorize those skills and abilities, skills and abilities being things that are measurable and movable so we can measure them and we can influence them through training, through programs, and we look at performance capacity of a person across the domains of the movement, including mindset, nutrition movement and recovery.

00;30;45;09 - 00;31;09;21

So what skills and abilities do you have within recovery? Like sleep is a skill, you know, there's skill around how you sleep. It is something that with effort you can get better at. You know, I've worked with operators that came into us that opened up and shared like they would get one or maybe two sleep cycles in a night broken talk in 75 minutes to 3 hours of sleep a night for years.

00;31;09;24 - 00;31;34;29

And after a few months it showed that they were sleeping for 8 hours a night. And you want to talk about changing someone's life or helping them change their own life. They give someone their sleep back. Holy crap, it has an impact. It's feedback. Yeah, it's huge. So sleep is a skill. But then within movement, you know, you talk about things like how strong someone is, how someone is, how powerful someone is, right?

00;31;35;02 - 00;32;02;03

Within nutrition, we talk about things like their body composition or their gut microbiome, and then within mindset, we talk about things like their self-awareness. How self-aware are you? That is a skill, that is a muscle that can be flexed and you can get better at that. We can improve our inner awareness, right? Regulation. Self regulation. Again, that is something that can be practiced and you can get better at that.

00;32;02;06 - 00;32;20;29

That's been a big one for me as I get into leadership roles. I was always like year in, year out. My review was you wear your heart on your sleeve and we know when you're pissed off, you know when you're happy, you can't hide it. If you are annoyed with something that someone says on a call. But I identified early on, get ready.

00;32;21;03 - 00;32;36;27

Get ready for what? I didn't want to be an emotional leader. When I was given a leadership opportunity. I wanted to be a steady leader. I didn't want to be emotional and I didn't want to have you know, I didn't want to wear my heart on my sleeve at all times. Not saying I'm hiding who I am, but I wanted to be steady and awful in my approach.

00;32;36;29 - 00;32;59;18

Yeah, you don't you want to be a robot, you know, you got to connect, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I realize I need to be better about regulation. I needed to learn how to take that and breathe for a minute and. And then come with a more measured response. And so. So I'm working on my dog a lot, on my inner awareness and my self-regulation over the last five years.

00;32;59;20 - 00;33;23;05

Eight years, I see a big difference. So so we look at all the skills and abilities that a person has. And I said that a goal breeds or gives context to what's important. If I'm working with someone who's trying to run 40 yards as fast as they can, I put more of an emphasis on how strong they are, how powerful they are, Maybe their body composition.

00;33;23;08 - 00;33;47;17

Whereas if I'm working with someone in a executive boardroom, you know, it doesn't necessarily I, I had to make sure that you're more powerful or stronger or fitter and you improve your VO2 max. And I might talk about self-awareness and reflection. And then even when you talk about one skill or ability, that goal gives context to why it's important, which can help it stick as a behavior.

00;33;47;17 - 00;34;10;06

So gut health is a great example. Okay, We hear a lot, right? People talk about the gut microbiome. If I'm worried, I just suck in my stomach. When you said that, yes, enough size of a guy that's going to be is that you talk about like the good bacteria inside our gut, right? The good bacteria inside our gut.

00;34;10;09 - 00;34;40;11

If I'm working with an athlete, they go, so why should I care? Well, I'll talk about something in the line of listen, people say you are what you eat. That's what you are, what you absorb in the inner lining of your guts, going to determine what you absorb from like a micro nutrient like vitamins and minerals standpoint. So when you start talking about wanting to get the most out of your training, out on the field or in the weight room, you talk about wanting to be injury resistant to injury and and making sure that you've got the right micronutrients in your body So operate the best.

00;34;40;13 - 00;35;05;03

That's why you should care about what you eat and eating in a way that supports and fuels and nourishes that gut microbiome. They go, okay, yeah, because it's contextualized to their role. But when I'm working with someone on the emotional regulation, I say, Listen, lots of people heard of serotonin. Serotonin is a neurochemical transmitter, right? Serotonin exists in our brain and it helps us with mood.

00;35;05;05 - 00;35;34;14

It's good. It helps us feel good right? And people have heard of it often because of us, our eyes. When you talk about and if an individual is depressed, that's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Right? So people are often aware of I've heard of this thing serotonin, and I understand it helps my mood and helps me regulate. What people don't often know is 95% of the serotonin that you have inside you is manufactured in your gut.

00;35;34;16 - 00;36;11;06

So you can do all this stuff on regulation and mood and meditation and all this stuff over here. And if you're eating like crap and assaulting your gut microbiome, then you sort of start to make sense. And so you take the same quality or capacity on gut health and you contextualize it because you understood their goal, if that makes sense, does immediately applicable to things I'm thinking about and the correlation of that adjacent understanding, then you can contextualize more skills and abilities to their goals.

00;36;11;09 - 00;36;35;23

If you have the horizontal thought approach is you need to know a little bit about neurochemical transmitters and you need to know a little bit about micronutrients and physical performance to be able to have that conversation. Your pain. Well, one half jokes, you're carrying a lot of responsibility with your role by being that person of of being able to connect the dots.

00;36;35;23 - 00;36;57;26

I'm not saying that the ones that you're dealing with, working with and teaming up with are capable of doing it. But to specifically be designated as the one that's in large part orchestrating all of these folks to come together and be able to bring this information to the top to build that consistency across the board of how it jumps over from thing to thing.

00;36;57;29 - 00;37;20;14

That's it's a lot of it's a lot to, I guess, to consider in what you're doing. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate it. I think the way I, I think the way that I take that idea the way I know it is easy. You're absolutely right. And it does feel like a lot sometimes. But the way I help it and I get to me is twofold.

00;37;20;14 - 00;37;40;14

One, to have a really positive relationship with failure, I'm good at it. That's another one. I'll call back to my dad. I grew up in a household. I'm realizing now how I'm how abnormal of a household I grew up in. And I mean that in a positive way. And I'm just I feel fortunate for it. But I grew up in a household.

00;37;40;14 - 00;38;01;16

My dad, who's a mountain climber, always had like, there's no such thing as failure. There's always success and opportunity to learn. And so that's one that helps with that because I'm not going to get it right. And then the second is that allows me to I don't know where it comes from or the vulnerability. Say, I don't know.

00;38;01;18 - 00;38;14;28

And I think this is one of the things that help me do well with the technical population is I never had to fake that, but I was always willing to say like, I don't know. And and that was just me being me. But what I learned really quickly is I got the best B.S. detector on the face of the planet, and they're going to sniff it out real fast.

00;38;14;28 - 00;38;29;06

If I'm all my ski tips and it's going to hurt a relationship and you're not going to get another chance at that relationship. And so speaking with some confidence when I at least think I know something and again, I say that it's there in times where you start something ten years later, you learn more and you go, Oh crap, I was wrong.

00;38;29;06 - 00;38;49;22

Two years ago. But but to speak with confidence when you should speak with confidence, but to also be able to say, I don't know the answer to that and be okay with that because I don't think there's any human in the world that expects someone to know everything. And so even if it's something, you know, that seems so obvious to you and I don't know, that doesn't diminish me because there are things I probably know that you don't like.

00;38;49;22 - 00;39;16;10

We just have our different backgrounds and I've always been comfortable with that and okay with that. So when you talk about all together for that big company, I think it's a comfortable it's me being comfortable, willing to fail and willing to say I don't know at all and be able to say, I don't know. Yeah, and I think so to go back to kind of connect the dots between conversations that we're having between so far, Anthony and you, we talked about with Anthony Hope, right?

00;39;16;10 - 00;39;46;10

So there's this emotional component of now having the faith to go to a place where we hope that you can help me. What you just said is key for the trust that's established for us. Continue that relationship building process where the hope is you can fix me and I will I will disagree slightly in the saying there are people out there that think that you stuff and know everything and you should be able to fix me because of my perception of value on how I think.

00;39;46;11 - 00;40;17;10

I think you should be able to do what you what I think you do and to the ability to have the humility to say, no, I don't know. But but you've developed the team around you that say, I don't know, but I'm going to pull in so and so I'll get an answer. I'll get an answer that's huge in the things that we're talking about at the moment, because you talk about vulnerability, you being vulnerable and being able to say those things is accepting that humility and the modesty to have the comfortable being comfortable to say that.

00;40;17;10 - 00;40;44;03

But then also recognizing that the ones you're working with are more vulnerable because they're in that state of asking for help, which is not easy. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. Spot on. And and look, it's I think it's so much into it at the end of the day, it's relationship building and it's knowing your strengths, inner awareness, knowing your strengths, you know, when to lean on your strengths and highlight them when not to like it.

00;40;44;06 - 00;41;06;04

It's all I know. We're we're recording this on audio. People can't see me, but I do not look like a straight coach. I'm like the skinniest train coach I've ever seen. Like Anthony is at least one of Anthony's legs is like the size of my torso. And so when we would work with that population or I coached NFL combine with Anthony as well I was the movement coach.

00;41;06;04 - 00;41;33;02

He was the strength coach. And people get in the room and they look and he looks like what a strength coach should look like. So there's an immediate perception. I don't. So I need to know how to build a relationship very quickly and bring build confidence and build their confidence in me that I am competent, but I'm also not blessing them and I need to do that very quickly.

00;41;33;09 - 00;42;01;28

Then say, okay, fine. So so you to 65 and then play football in the SCC. That doesn't mean that you don't know something that can help me with my goals, you know, and that's where self-awareness is, I think, important. But yeah, you're you're spot on that. And so I think that's why I overindex into that because that is my muscle reflex, so to speak, to build that relationship quickly is I don't that anyone teaching it and teach a class.

00;42;01;28 - 00;42;24;27

I had an operator be like man inside his review as he goes inside the first 30 minutes, my thought was, you got to be kidding me. This dude is the one that is teaching this class. I was like, Where does this go on? This is the this is not good feedback. And it was him saying that you showed us very quickly in that first half hour why that was a good thing.

00;42;24;29 - 00;42;40;04

And this is a two week class. And at the end, the two weeks is when he sings and he says this is the best course I've ever taken in my career. And I hung on to that not as an insult in any way. I took it as a huge compliment, huge respect, but as a reminder, saying he was the one that was going to voice everything to others of thought it.

00;42;40;05 - 00;42;58;04

I don't look the role. What is the first impression I need to make and how do I make it? Because visually the first impression is not, Wow, this is the guy that has all the answers to my strength and conditioning needs. Know, but I've got to convince them that I don't have all the answers, but I got enough to make it worth their time in the relationship with me.

00;42;58;06 - 00;43;26;16

You got a team? Yeah, I got a team. Other people to lift heavy crap. That's right. Right. So we had psychological drivers performance capacity. Yeah, There's third. So the third. And this is possibly the most important one. I think the one I enjoy talking about the most. Now that is the most applicable, I feel like in today's world across multiple groups, but it's what we call functional status.

00;43;26;19 - 00;43;49;15

And that's a largely fancy way of saying how recovered are you to think of your skills and your abilities? It doesn't mean that you can tap into them any time, any place. A lot of people think you same bill you know what it what's the world record 9.589.592 months at 400 meters. A lot of people think therefore he's going to run like a nine point something every single time he would sprint and he does.

00;43;49;15 - 00;44;09;09

And there are times he's sprinting as fast as he can. But based on his functional state at a time where he is in his training cycle, how well he's resting, he might run a 1001 1002 We said all the time with these young kids coming out of college that, you know, in their mind they once they've run a44 40 and they are shocked when they run a46 because in their mind they can do it every time.

00;44;09;11 - 00;44;35;03

Let's go away from a sports example. I am physically capable of emotional regulation, but I haven't slept well in four days. I got a bunch of added stressors at home. I just had an argument with my with my wife. All these things happened and then my kid knocks over like a glass and spills some grape juice on the carpet and I lose my crap.

00;44;35;05 - 00;45;08;00

And I'm not capable of emotional regulation in that moment. My functional state wasn't where it needed to be for me to tap into my full level of skill and ability. So we're talking physically or emotionally. We're building tools to use them. But if you don't give yourself the right hands to be recovered, we don't prioritize some of these things like sleep and like energy management, breath work, focus, all these things that help us regulate, like we don't manage our functional state.

00;45;08;02 - 00;45;26;03

We're not going to tap into our full set of skills and abilities that we've worked so hard to build. And so it's I like to say like if you're performance capacity is what you're capable of, your functional state is what you're actually capable of. Right now, performance capacity takes time to change. We've got to be patient. That's the growth mindset you talked about at the beginning.

00;45;26;06 - 00;45;50;18

I know Squat wants to get stronger. It takes me weeks, two months to build my capacity. I've got to focus on something consistently to adapt to grow it. Functional state exchanges second by second, minute by minute at most, day by day. It's a much shorter time horizon and so if we think like I'll often tell people say, you know what, we're talking about your functional status change.

00;45;50;18 - 00;46;14;07

If you heard a loud gunshot outside your door right now, your functional state would immediately change if you were on a work call and someone challenged you in a way you didn't like or said something that really kicked you off your functional state would immediately change. And so a functional state is the shorter time horizon, and it's what lets us actually realize the skills and abilities we've built.

00;46;14;10 - 00;46;34;22

Sometimes it's actually bigger place to focus when you're pursuing a goal to be adequately recovered. For that goal, you can always make it more of an impact that way. And the key is you can't do one or the other. My whole point here is saying to get ready for something when you've got a goal to be ready, what that means is building your capacity, improving your skills and abilities.

00;46;34;22 - 00;47;02;26

Relative the goal, but then recovering ideally so that you are optimized and be able to show up in the moment matters and you can do just one or the other. If we think of it as almost word plus rest or rest equals success. If you do all work and nothing but work, you're in the weight or you're you're you're training as hard as you can or you're you're working on your emotional regulation, your inner awareness, whatever your goal is, you're working on your.

00;47;02;26 - 00;47;19;29

Got it. It's all work. Work, work. But then no rest and recovery. Good luck. But at the same token, if you've got a goal, you can't just go make sure you're optimally recovered in chief. The like. I'd tell the combined guys, right, Like you can't just get to sleep and be recovered if you want to run off for three four day.

00;47;19;29 - 00;47;42;22

We got to put a bigger engine in you as well. So it's the combination of the two, improve what you're capable of and optimize your functional state, your recovery, all relative to the goal. That's what getting ready means. And we've got this framework where whatever a person's goal is, we can say, okay, what are the skills and abilities across mindset, nutrition and recovery that we think matter most to your door?

00;47;42;24 - 00;48;00;09

Like what are your gaps? What's holding you back? And let's come up with a sum of a few evidence based No. One strategies that you commit to consistently to try and improve skills and abilities in that area to reach your goal. But then how are you showing up each day? What are we doing to optimize your focus day?

00;48;00;09 - 00;48;25;01

Where are you doing to take care of yourself? To be recover? Let's identify gaps there to so when the moment matters, you can tap into those skills and abilities we're working so hard to build. And then that's how you get ready for something. Yeah, a couple, a couple immediate scenarios in my head. In everyday life, regardless of your status, position, profession, it's the day to day interactions of what you had already described.

00;48;25;01 - 00;48;55;01

Just, I mean, leaving the house, going to the store, somebody says something and you see something. It it you have a and capable of regulating. But the constant the constant of that and you'd mentioned about somebody over several years no more than 3 hours of sleep where that becomes the norm where you believe that you can function because you're not aware of anything different.

00;48;55;04 - 00;49;16;08

I mean, you probably were in the beginning, like the first couple of times that you had that you're like, Oh, I'm smoked, I'm tired. Yeah. Then after a month, two months, six months, a year, you don't recognize that as being tired anymore. It's just the norm. And so you accept it and you adapt to it and then you don't recognize all of these other variables that come into play of how you're affected by it.

00;49;16;08 - 00;49;42;13

So simple office setting, let's say long day. You feel exhausted when you are talking to folks about what their goals are. Do you get to the level of of things like that on a regular occurrence? Can you walk us through an example of, you know, how you're identifying the norms of what they're saying versus what you're now hearing them not say, if you know what I mean?

00;49;42;15 - 00;50;09;19

Yeah, absolutely Again, it's always building context to them. And I will say before I give an example, I want to say I always feel when I talk with individuals, always in a completely non-judgmental way, there is no judgment whatsoever behind any of it, and it's just presenting them with information and letting them make a decision for them in their life.

00;50;09;22 - 00;50;27;12

That's all we can do. I can't control someone, right? But I can present them with information and see if that influences their behavior And influence behavior over time leads to different outcomes. You know, you said that, and I don't mean to interrupt for just for a short second, because I think that's a lot of the fear that interrupts.

00;50;27;12 - 00;50;48;29

Our ability to want to trust, right, is because they don't want to share a detail. So they I'm sure doctors go through this all the time. They don't want to get looked at or judged or feel judged because of something. Yeah. And now the story starts to shape itself from what they want. You to hear versus what's actually happening, which is kind of the premise of the question.

EXOS is the global leader in human performance and in this episode, we kick off the EXOS series to highlight Anthony Hobgood. As the Senior Director of Performance, Anthony tells us about his humble beginnings and how his early life influences played a significant part in carrying with him his purpose having experienced the many things he helps treat as an EXOS leader and coach. One who dedicates his craft to healing others, Anthony explains the foundation of how EXOS came to be, the programs offered, and what it takes to earn results; a brief summary of the EXOS mission as they commit to serving communities, companies, and our military. Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. - https://teamexos.com/ - https://www.linkedin.com/company/exos/ - [email protected] - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-andrews-institute/ - http://www.andrewsinstitute.com/ - https://andrewsref.org/ - https://andrewsref.org/donate/ --------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;29;04

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this first episode of our EXOS series, I'm joined by our guest, Anthony Hobgood, senior director of performance at EXOS.

00;00;29;12 - 00;00;49;04

In this episode, we kick off the series to highlight Anthony, who tells us about his humble beginnings and how his early life influences played a significant part in carrying with him his purpose as an EXOS leader and coach, one who dedicates his craft to healing others. Anthony explains the foundation of how EXOS came to be, the programs offered and what it takes to earn results.

00;00;49;07 - 00;01;12;05

Which is a brief summary of the EXOS mission as they commit to serving communities, companies and our military. Anthony's contact details are in the podcast description and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Seek to understand as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. What's going on, Anthony? Good morning, Chris. How you doing? I'm doing all right, thanks.

00;01;12;07 - 00;01;35;07

A little trouble getting in today, did you? Yeah. The three mile bridge coming to work. I got stuck in traffic for a half hour, which was a great way to kick off your Monday morning. But actually, Tuesday morning, Monday, it was like a monday. What did you do over the weekend? My son had a baseball tournament, so I coached a nine year baseball tournament in Fort Walton Beach, Florida.

00;01;35;10 - 00;01;59;16

The weather was pristine and perfect. Monday, I cooked out with some friends of ours and built a homemade slip and slide that was four times larger than what you could buy. So cooking ribs and a barrel cooker while your kids run on a 40 yard long slip and slide. That's it was a good day and is a good day.

00;01;59;18 - 00;02;19;13

The one we had when I was younger was, what, ten foot? Yes. Usually ended up on the edge of the grass that transitioned into the sidewalk. Belly Burns. Exactly. Yeah. You can. You can go to a Home Depot and buy a big roll of of plastic that makes the best slip and slide in the world for about $15.

00;02;19;19 - 00;02;43;03

So it's a great time. It is a great time. Nice. How about you? What was your day yesterday? Yeah, it was great. Thanks for asking. And it was, you know, of course, Memorial Day. And so we do. Well, I do. Family will follow up later, but from my house to the Presidio National Cemetery is just over 26 ish miles, just enough to call it a marathon.

00;02;43;06 - 00;03;05;03

And so I yesterday rucked, learned I got baby feet. So footwear is key but but in on the route passed by two cemeteries go Golden Gate Cemetery and then landed at National Presidio National Cemetery which is nice because it's reflection walk and you know just good opportunity to walk through the community and see where we are at the society.

00;03;05;03 - 00;03;37;03

So that's that's the idea. Yeah. Good. It was good. Awesome. So today we are talking about the first of our seven episodes Anthony is going to cover expose the organization, how he became a part of it and what the contributions of him at an early age bring it up to his dedication to the field in which he's working and we'll start to hammer out some details that'll just give us some teasers on on what the company's about and and the services that they provide and how it helps our community and others.

00;03;37;05 - 00;04;00;05

So, Anthony, if you wouldn't mind just and we talked about it, you can start where you want. Well currently I live in Pensacola, Florida, and our facility access facilities in Gulf Breeze, Florida. My current position now, I'm the senior director of performance for XO Sports Division. Essentially manage the teams and the service we deliver across our our sports training sites.

00;04;00;08 - 00;04;23;21

I've been at this location now, actually, I think going on 16 years I've been here. We opened up this location in 2007, so I'm basically then I'm a coach, so I've had my I kind of had my head under the hood for the last six years at this location, coaching, training, athletes, working primarily, working a lot of the military, which I will get into a little bit later.

00;04;23;21 - 00;04;46;24

But yeah, I've been here that I've been here a long time been it's been a tremendous, tremendous last six years being here. But yeah, prior to coming here, I grew up in a little small town in Mississippi called Picayune, Mississippi. It's a little town on the Louisiana Mississippi border, just probably 40 miles, 45 miles outside of New Orleans.

00;04;46;27 - 00;05;08;13

I grew up there in a little small community, in a little country town. And it's interesting, I was reflecting on this this past weekend. You know, my parents didn't let me play any sports until I was ten years old. And when I started playing sports at ten, it changed my life like I was I was really good at it, just naturally play baseball.

00;05;08;19 - 00;05;36;29

Started out playing soccer, but started playing the sports. And that led to going in and playing football in college. So I was playing football at Ole Miss from 2002 to 2006, and that whole journey was just as is another long story that was very, very life changing for me. I think about it quite often and just how all the pieces fell together and how my journey from high school through college and how I even ended up here.

00;05;37;02 - 00;06;04;15

But I got into this field because I was an athlete and fell in love with the strength conditioning piece and got my degree in exercise science. And and that's that's essentially the, you know, the catalyst for how I stepped into the human performance field most students do through athletics. And then once we started work on the military, I realized that working with tactical population was really the the gold standard of my field.

00;06;04;15 - 00;06;38;18

So. So yeah, that's, that's the big rocks of my of my background. Got it. So small town sports that's a big deal. I mean how seriously was was did the community look at sports pretty seriously and think about think of a little town where on Friday night everybody's at the football game you know and and then growing up in little community that I grew up in, I was around you know, the street I grew up on was named after my last name I grew up on at first when I was a kid was a dirt road.

00;06;38;20 - 00;07;08;23

It was called I think my address was Route six, Box 59. That was my address. It was a route under coach. And then as I got older, it was changed to Hobgood Lane. That's because my family owned the land that was there. And so I grew up around all my cousins and I mean, imagine waking up in the summertime as a kid and you've got about four or five cousins your age and acres of woods to explore and bikes to ride, and I mean trails to riding your bike.

00;07;08;23 - 00;07;46;03

And it was just that was how it was. And then when I started playing baseball, I wasn't very good initially, but I was just a big athletic kid. And then I started seeing a lot of success really quick. And so it just expanded my network tremendously. So I went from not really having many friends outside of my family to it just exploded my network of people that I knew in my town and friends and in my experience, as you know, when I was 12 years old, we played we almost made it to the Little League World Series and we import Williamsport, Pennsylvania.

00;07;46;03 - 00;08;08;13

Like, really, we can really close to make it to Williamsport. But what was interesting was when I we are the town, the city we represented, our team won the state championship in Mississippi. So we represented the state of Mississippi in the Little League regionals down in St Petersburg, Florida. And the city flew us down there on an airplane.

00;08;08;16 - 00;08;28;27

Well, my dad and I got on the airplane and it was both our first time ever on an airplane. My dad had never been on an airplane. I was 12 years old. I had never been on an airplane. And so so yeah, that's we flew there and did that. And then and then since I was, you know, I was I was one of those kids that was early bloomer, right?

00;08;28;27 - 00;08;47;22

So I was really big as a as a young kid. I mean, shoot, I was some in some cases, as you know, 13, 14 years old, I was larger than the empire that was umpiring the game. And so everybody was always on the ball. Don't you play football? You know, you should play football. You play football. And so in eighth grade I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try this football thing out.

00;08;47;23 - 00;09;13;12

And I did that. And and that's when I started playing football. And that also then expanded my, my again, my network of people that I knew even greater. But what really started changing for me was two things. One, I met a guy who ended up becoming my brother in law that married my sister, who really became a mentor to me when I was in high school.

00;09;13;14 - 00;09;35;28

And then the combination of him and getting recruited to go to college. So I'd never wasn't even thinking of college, wasn't even my radar and I got an invite to go to a visit to the University of Southern Mississippi, and it's the first time I'd ever set foot on a college campus. And so I started getting recruited for college football.

00;09;35;28 - 00;09;58;21

And then I started thinking, Oh, man, I want I want a part of this. I want to be you know, I want I want to do this. And so football was really my catalyst for start to start creating an interest in going to college, you know, without going too deep. Both of my parents dropped out of high school when they were teenagers and got married, and my dad worked hard, manual labor jobs my whole life.

00;09;58;21 - 00;10;15;20

My mom, you know, when I was really small, she did everything from job, a school bus to she was a teacher's aide, and then she cleaned houses for a living when I was a kid. And my dad worked manual labor jobs. And it wasn't even my college wasn't even on our radar. It just wasn't something talked about in my house.

00;10;15;22 - 00;10;43;15

Yeah. And recruited to put, you know, being recruited to go to college is the first time that that actually opened a whole world to me that I would that I started to explore and that that absolutely changed my life. Got it that that's that's that's an interesting transition baseball to football of course the influence however they were looking at you and it's not uncommon I guess so you're pretty used to it.

00;10;43;18 - 00;11;04;17

These things that we indicate sometimes is or uses indicators to point us in a different trajectory. It's amazing how it turns out. On considering things that you never thought that you were able to do. I mean, going not only in a different sport, but then expanding and going to college, that that as a result of that stuff. Yeah.

00;11;04;19 - 00;11;27;20

I mean, talk about life skills development, looking at things. That's good. That's good that you and your family were open, of course, because where you are now, what was happening is my what was a time when my mom, who was my brother, my brother in law now went out. You know, he played college baseball and he he grew up in New Orleans and he grew up in a big city.

00;11;27;20 - 00;11;46;15

And he had been he had been around the travel song and he sees this young kid who had very little life experience outside of a small town. And he started speaking things into my life, basically saying, hey, man, you could you got a lot of potential. You should you know, you should go to college, you should go play sports in college.

00;11;46;15 - 00;12;15;13

You should, you know, And he really was an encourager to me to step out and really painted a picture for me of of, you know, some things I could have accomplished. And long story short, going into my senior year of high school, I was being recruited by LSU, Southern Miss and University of Mississippi, Ole Miss. And I went to a I went to a football camp that that was at LSU, that was put on by Nick Saban.

00;12;15;16 - 00;12;37;07

And at that camp, I it was really kind of like a semi camp slash recruiting visit. I tore my ACL at the camp and make a long story short, I had to sit out my entire senior year of high school football. I was back in rehab and was back, you know, for baseball that season. And we had a great year.

00;12;37;07 - 00;13;00;13

We won the state championship for the only time in history, in school. History was great, but my all the recruiting to the big schools stopped because I tore my ACL and I wasn't able to I didn't even play my senior year. So I ended up signing a junior college football scholarship and a lot of the smaller schools, you know, were still offering me.

00;13;00;15 - 00;13;18;27

Well, I wanted I had kind of set my mind on playing in the SCC. Well, I wanted to go to Ole Miss and my coach who was recruited me, called me and said, Hey, we would love to have you here, but we can't give you a football scholarship. You didn't even play your senior year. So if you find a way to get here, we'd love to have you on the team.

00;13;18;27 - 00;13;42;24

But you have to you have to walk on. And I'm like, Well, I can't do that. Long story short, man, I ended up getting an academic scholarship that paid for all of my college, and I showed up to Ole Miss. I passed up a JUCO scholarship and some other opportunities and I went to Ole Miss as an invited walk on on an academic scholarship.

00;13;42;27 - 00;14;09;18

And just to give you a picture of what that was like, imagine you are part of the team, okay? You are training, you're practicing, you are, you're in the grind as a team. But then on the team, like after workouts, when players are getting like post-workout, you know, supplements, you can't have it. When the team has like a team meal after practice, you're not allowed to participate or to partake in it.

00;14;09;21 - 00;14;31;01

And so I had this like chip on my shoulder of I need to earn every single thing that I get because they're not going to give me anything. So I went from showing up and not allowed to participate in some of the benefits that the team was getting. Even though I was on a team and practicing contributed at a high level.

00;14;31;01 - 00;14;55;18

I went from that to to to being to lettering, to actually play in and, and, you know, being on the team. And so anyway, that's that was a whole that was a life experience journey for me of truly realizing that to be on that field on Saturday was more a 100% merit based system that you had to earn.

00;14;55;21 - 00;15;17;27

And not just earn, but you had to like you were in the negative, like you were in the negative starting out and you had to go get every opportunity. You had to go take advantage of every opportunity that you have to be able to make it. And and fortunately, I did. So that was that was quite a, I would call a forging moment of my life going through all of that.

00;15;17;29 - 00;15;47;18

Yeah. I mean, everything everything that you're saying has me swirling around life lessons, mentorship, encouragement. Yeah, accountability. You know, I mean, the last part itself, and we'll get into it more. I'm hoping. I'm sure we're appreciating injuries or things that prevent you from hitting your potential in this case because of where you are and what you do. I want to be able to plant the seed right now.

00;15;47;18 - 00;16;09;08

And as you tell it, as we talk more, is how does that how does all that experience bring now a perspective into the value that you're you're providing to your clients or to customers? I mean, just just the whole idea of saying you're in a bad situation, you're in a situation bad is relative. You're in a situation right now that you don't want to be in in order to get out of it.

00;16;09;08 - 00;16;33;01

We're going to we're going to approach it, but you're going to have to work for it. I'm going to give you the give you the answers. You're going to have to study and get the results. I would say I mean, I could I could go. There's even more after that. I could get into it. But I would say if I were to reflect on the biggest thing that I've learned in my life is that think about a human being's life.

00;16;33;01 - 00;16;51;17

If you were to track their life the way that you see a stock, think about a stock market graph, right? So you see a graph where the line is increasing, then it drops and then it increases and it drops and it increases and it drops and increasing it drops. But then the overall slope of that graph is this gradual increase.

00;16;51;20 - 00;17;18;20

I think our lives are that same way where when I look back on what I would consider very challenging and hard circumstances in my life, those are the times where I grew the most don't grow when things are easy, you grow when things are hard. So I began to just embrace the hard things, like if something is hard, it's the opportunity to get better as opportunities to grow.

00;17;18;23 - 00;17;49;26

If things were always easy, I would, I wouldn't. I wouldn't learn anything. It would just stagnate, you know, I'd become stagnant if not go backwards. So every hard thing I see in my past was a very, very important period in my life that made me who I am today. So therefore, if I'm going through something challenging right now, I'll look back on that this years from now and realize that that was that was beneficial for my growth.

00;17;49;29 - 00;18;15;04

Was there a sense of ownership as far as paying it forward when it comes to that of those that put helped you get into that situation where it's also included in that reflective moment of how are you going to push through the hardships? Yeah, I mean, is there like a sense of ownership in myself or you said, Yeah, and yourself, it's, it's somebody gave me the chance to, to do the things that I'm doing now.

00;18;15;05 - 00;18;51;29

Without that, I have to push through it because I owe it to those who supported me along the way. Yeah, yeah. 100%. I def You definitely do. I mean, you, you're, you're going to get opportunities in your life. Okay. When I say opportunities, an opportunity may be as something as simple as you meeting somebody in the office for the first time and the way that you interact with them, like every day is every day and how you conduct yourself is an opportunity for you to expand yourself as a person to become better and it's essentially, what are you going to do with those opportunities?

00;18;51;29 - 00;19;17;05

Are you going to take it back? Are you going to take those opportunities for granted, or are you going to approach life with a sense of gratitude and realize that man, that, you know, I'm thankful for being here, I'm thankful for the app and I'm thankful for my employer. I'm thankful for the people around me. And I use this opportunity to improve myself and improve those around me like a constant state of growth.

00;19;17;07 - 00;19;35;21

And so so yeah, I definitely think there's an obligation there. And I think that is I think that obligation is founded in the concept of gratitude. You know, like I'm grateful to be here, therefore I'm going to take advantage of this opportunity and not take it for granted if that made any sense at all. But that's my mindset now.

00;19;35;21 - 00;20;00;13

Immediately I wrote it down. If I ever wanted a soundbite, that was it. Yeah. I mean, that's a it's a very powerful statement. How, how, how people look at the things that are giving them. It's offering them everything, you know, relatively good or bad matters less, but all of it is now factor that's based off of the foundation that somebody laid out for you to be where you are.

00;20;00;16 - 00;20;27;17

So gratitude is the is the key for sure in this. And we we we have said this many times. Well you know, as we'll get into a little later, you know, the founder of our company is, you know, Mark Verstegen, right. Mark Verstegen founded EXOS back in 1999. And as when I came into this company, I was giving lots and lots of opportunities like I had.

00;20;27;21 - 00;20;49;00

We had special operations groups inside the military that were inviting us in and to come in and work with them. And the person that they got was me. And there's a, there's a tendency, because of your own selfish human pride, to think that, Oh, I'm getting invited here because of me and because I'm good at what I do.

00;20;49;02 - 00;21;07;24

But the reality is, no, you're not getting out of there because of me. I'm getting invited there because of the the the work that was laid before me by great people like Mark statement, like I'm coming there for the name of my shirt, not because of Nate, not because of who I am, because of Mark, because of that was because of the people who came before me.

00;21;07;24 - 00;21;32;16

Therefore, I have to through two things. Number one, I have a I better be grateful for that because if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be asked to come here. Let's get a clear to I have an opportunity. I have an obligation to be good stewards, be a good steward of this opportunity, and and basically do a great job.

00;21;32;19 - 00;21;59;23

Right as much This is much bigger than me. And so I see a lot of people today who have tremendous privileges that that that they did not earn that is just there. But they don't have any sense of gratitude for what they have. They don't have the right perspective about it. They don't understand it. They take for granted that you can go to your waterfall, sit and turn it on, and clean drinking water just comes out.

00;21;59;25 - 00;22;25;23

They take for you, take for granted that I can go flip on my light switch and my light bulb comes on. I don't realize that what it takes for that to happen. Okay. And so anyway, I think a the right perspective leads to a healthy dose of gratitude, but also a healthy dose of ownership and responsibility to to be good.

00;22;25;25 - 00;22;51;00

Yes, to all of it. Okay. Well, that's that's a if anybody out there is not picking up what we're laying down there, this is this is the the attitude in the brand. And I can say that and I'm oversimplifying it, not doing it justice, but the relationship between individuals that are performing on behalf of others, in this case, you just got it.

00;22;51;02 - 00;23;15;18

So now let's talk about EXOS. So let's talk about the founder. Let's talk about the premise in which the organization was created, what it's serving, the growth that it's experienced, and then slide in there. Anthony, if you wouldn't mind, please. You know, so you're you're out of college and you start to consider what you're going to do next.

00;23;15;18 - 00;23;36;22

How did you land here? And kind of as best you can make it both a minor. Yes. So I'm at Ole Miss playing football. I had worked really hard and in the spring of 2005, I was going to my junior season and I was in line at the starting position as the full back on the football team was mine to lose.

00;23;36;24 - 00;23;58;01

I had paid a lot of dues to be in that position and in the spring training I had my first concussion and medically was not cleared to continue to play. And so I had worked really hard to, you know, I played I was I was playing, I was on special teams and was in the rotation. But I wasn't a starter that worked really hard to become a starter.

00;23;58;03 - 00;24;27;00

And then here it here what seems to be the rug getting pulled out from underneath me? I wasn't playing anymore. Well, my coaches wanted me to stick around the program and just like, help coach be like a student coach, like intern as a coach. Well, I didn't want any part of that, but I loved the training piece. So I started working in the in the weight room with the strength staff, and I finished out my time at Ole Miss, you know, as a volunteer and as an intern on the strength staff.

00;24;27;00 - 00;24;53;27

Well, I was seeing my coaches. We were opening up the weight room at 530 in the morning to train athletes. Well, then you're you'd be there at 6 p.m. at night training the baseball team and that lifestyle of you can't do anything other than just work. I didn't want that because personally I had a lot of ambition of having a family one day and I'm going to go to coach my son's baseball team.

00;24;53;27 - 00;25;28;24

If I had a son right, I wanted to be able to have a life outside of my work. I didn't want to just be one dimensional. And so long story short, my my Bama can ex professor at Ole Miss. His name was Dr. Chip Wade. He got the director of research position at a place called the Andrews Institute in Gulf Breeze, Florida, and he called me in his office one day and he said, Hey, I'm going to be going down to Gulf Breeze to run research at the Andrews Institute, which was an orthopedic surgery center for Dr. James Andrews, who's one of the most renowned orthopedic surgeons in the world.

00;25;28;26 - 00;25;53;19

And they're going to run a human performance facility at that campus. And they want to integrate human performance into the campus. And they're talking with this company out of Arizona called Athlete Performance. And it looks like athletes performance is going to come in and run the performance center at the Andrews Institute, and they are the leaders and tumor performance globally.

00;25;53;22 - 00;26;14;17

If you're an elite athlete and you want to go to private training facility athletes, performance is the place to go. Well, I had never heard of it and I said, man, I'd be. It sounds like a great opportunity to go and be a strength conditioning coach in the private sector. And oh, by the way, I get to go to grad school and they'll pay for it'd be like a G position.

00;26;14;20 - 00;26;34;11

I said, Let's do it. So I moved down to I moved down to Pensacola. I'm leaving out a lot of details here, but I moved down to Pensacola and was a grad assistant in the Bahamas in a research lab for the Andrews Institute. And I worked in the biomechanics research lab and went to the University of West Florida and got my master's degree.

00;26;34;11 - 00;26;51;14

And I did that at nighttime. Well, I wanted to get my foot in the door of the athlete's performance. And so I was I was as much as I could hang out with the staff and help and take the trash out if I see them cleaning out, grab a broom. And I just started volunteering with athletes performance because we were in the same space.

00;26;51;16 - 00;27;17;15

And anyway, I got an opportunity. They hired me as a part time coach because they, they, they sold a high school football speed training program over the summer. That was a hundred athletes coming in here to train and they let me come in and run it. And so that was where I cut my teeth with athletes performance. And then when I when I was I was part time and then I became full time when I graduated in oh nine.

00;27;17;18 - 00;27;52;16

And so but here's what I didn't realize, what I what I learned by coming here was I'd learned I'd learned about this company at the time. Athletes performance was a very small company, and it was it was founded by Mark Verstegen in 1999, and back in the nineties Mark Verstegen was at IMG and he left img to at the time was to create something that didn't exist and he wanted to create a training facility, not just a facility, but think about a training experience where an athlete had everything that they needed.

00;27;52;16 - 00;28;35;07

In one location. You had physical therapy, you had performance specialists, you had dietitians, you had massage therapists, you had all the different professionals in one location, but not just there, but they were there seamlessly integrated as a staff by their culture and also a methodology. So you walk in as an athlete and you have this multidisciplinary team surrounding you, all working together to help you reach your goals, whether it's recovering from an injury, whether it's preparing for an event or just training in the off season, you had a place that was like a sanctuary for pro athletes and he created that.

00;28;35;09 - 00;29;03;25

He took all the he took what we knew and human performance and basically packaged it into a system that became known as the access methodology, the access training system. And that system, rightly understood, could can be manipulated in an infinite number of ways to help anybody, whether you are, you know, an athlete or not an athlete, have a healthy lifestyle or prepare for any kind of training or event.

00;29;03;25 - 00;29;39;20

And so so yeah, he he started that company in 99 and built something very, very special that became a magnet to pro athletes globally which which was the catalyst for the military coming and saying, how can we take what you guys do and apply it to our world? Humble beginnings, it seems in that story, something a part of your life you've demonstrated through storytelling is gravitate towards that opportunity.

00;29;39;23 - 00;30;02;08

And you mentioned some of the things that you'll do just to be around those things, you know, clean in. And then I work a couple of years without getting really paid anything for it. Yeah, paid a lot of dues. Right. But what you earned, I mean, it's priceless. You know. But that's really true, though. Like, like I was I was I was earning number one.

00;30;02;08 - 00;30;29;21

I was learning because here's what I realized, Chris, is what we do. What I do for like, when I'm training an athlete, you know, I have a master's degree in extra science, I have my CSCS certification, but 99.9% of what I do, I learned from on the job training by doing it and by being mentored by the people and the education and the degrees and the certifications only give somebody a foundation.

00;30;29;21 - 00;30;54;03

It gives you an understanding of the human body and it gives you essentially you to, you know, how to speak the language, but you don't know how to do it. And so you have to basically become an apprentice and learn from others for a period of time before you can really, what I would say, do a great job at training somebody.

00;30;54;05 - 00;31;19;10

Yep. Sounds like there's continuity between that and the approach. So what is what is so Exos interesting name. What does it stand for itself? Well, prior to 2014, our company's name was Athlete Performance and Mark had had wrote a book called Core Performance, and we actually had athletes perform it. He had two brands. It was kind of two brands at the time.

00;31;19;11 - 00;31;41;10

You had athletes performance that was geared more toward athlete facing populations and you had core performance that was geared more toward general population. And we actually we actually opened up our core performance training facilities in California that was geared more toward Gen POC. Well, it was there was it was kind of confusing, you know, having two brands. But in the same company.

00;31;41;12 - 00;32;05;10

And then when we were going to the table to to expand our reach and influence and working with different corporations like Google, for example, or the military, when you're when you're talking to a Google or the military, the first response is, well, we're not athletes. You know, you see athletes performance, but we have a different population with different job and a different demand.

00;32;05;10 - 00;32;43;16

So how was that resonate? It didn't resonate very well. And then those different non-athletic worlds. So in 2014, as we began to expand our impact into military and and into serving employees and big corporations, we went through a complete rebranding and we went away from the athletes performance and the core performance brand to a brand called EXOS. The name EXOS comes from the word EXOSphere, which is the outer level of the worlds of the Earth's atmosphere.

00;32;43;18 - 00;33;11;27

So from just a figurative standpoint, it it's it stands for the highest level on earth, really. If you look at the if you look at the the X s, the x is broken into four little pieces. If you look at the logo. And those four pieces represents our four pillars of our of our of our methodology, which is mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery.

00;33;11;29 - 00;33;44;12

So what we if you think about our our our our methodology from high level, if we're working with military general population employees for organizations or elite athletes, if you want to optimize your performance, if you want to have sustainability long term, you need to be firing on all four of those cylinders. Mindset, nutrition, movement and recovery. Okay? If you look at the oh for the in the name excess, you'll notice is broken into two parts.

00;33;44;14 - 00;34;15;23

Well, and part of our methodology, we have a concept we call the recovery cycle, which is work plus rest equals success. Another way of saying it is work plus rest equals adaptation. That is one of the core fundamental principles of our system is if you're seeking an adaptation, you have to have work, which is some type of stimulus paired with breast, which is your recovery in order for adaptation to occur.

00;34;15;25 - 00;34;38;21

All right. And if you think about that equation, why that's important is if you were to if you think about how, you know, example will commonly used as if you look at how calluses form on your hand. Okay. So if you were to rub your hand on concrete or sandpaper on your hand, right. You do it for a period of time with the rest your body is going to adapt and your skin is going to thicken.

00;34;38;21 - 00;35;02;05

And former callus will in order for the callus to form, what is more important, the stimulus or the rest? Well, the answer is both. Like you can't have one without the other. And so what, Chris, why that's important is what that means is, is as an athlete, personally, I only focused on my training. I thought that my training is where I make my improvements.

00;35;02;07 - 00;35;26;19

And I didn't make a I didn't put a priority on how I recovered. And so as a college athlete, I was training really hard, but I would stay up late at night and I wouldn't prioritize like how I took care of my body. And so if you have the proper mindset, you're going to value how you manage your recovery just as as as much as you value how you put a training stimulus on yourself.

00;35;26;22 - 00;35;57;02

And so, again, going back to to the to the logo, you ask me what does that mean That that is essentially like outer atmosphere of the earth. That's where the name excess comes from. And as you kind of peek into the actual logo itself, you'll see our four pillars built into the X, you'll see the recovery cycle built into the oath, and that concept of mindset, nutrition, movement, recovery and work stress, equal success really is at the core of our methodology and how we serve people.

00;35;57;04 - 00;36;27;00

That's awesome that the connectedness in itself, in the brand and how it brings together through the words and the imageries. I mean, it makes sense. And you're right, always a student. I'm learning, especially in the fitness area where people like me have been making attempts at trying to be physically fit for decades. It's always working hard. Nobody brags about how much rest you're giving your body or how much recovery options that you've planned for.

00;36;27;03 - 00;36;52;21

I mean, the good ones do, right? Right. So so in that transformation, I can't help but to bring up the reflective effort to go into the brain connectedness because talking about how how people become aware of what organizations do you know, a lot of us will put myself included. I'll put weight into like we talked about the imagery.

00;36;52;21 - 00;37;14;04

I'll look at the words, I'll look at the company name. I won't make the association. So then I dismiss it and move on. I'm gathering that in that and I'm oversimplifying it. That's part of where you your organization had realized that in order for us to be more effective, expand the reach and have people gravitate towards the offerings that we have.

00;37;14;06 - 00;37;35;16

We have to be able to symbolize that in the name, in the words to get the hook, if you will, to get them to realize what we're doing. And so in that evolution where you change the name, what does that done for the organization to help simplify that process of people becoming able to connect what your name is and what you do?

00;37;35;18 - 00;38;01;12

Yeah, I think I think if you look prior to that, that brand change, it was the name I guess cured a stigma with it, right? Well, first of all, I'll say this like if you want, if there's a back up of the reason that access is where it is today is because of the character of the values and the humility of Mark stigma.

00;38;01;14 - 00;38;22;13

When Mark started this company, he didn't name it for Steeg and performance. He made it athletes performance. And what that essentially means is we have an athlete centric approach to what we're doing. We're going to put the athlete in a center and we're going to ask this question what is best for the athlete? And that's not what's best for me, what's best for my image or my career.

00;38;22;13 - 00;38;52;07

But what's best for the athlete. You're putting the athlete in the center. And so that that values that value structure of of really elevating the individual that you're serving over yourself was the catalyst for our growth as a company. Because if it if it wasn't for that, our athletes performance would still be a tiny, small little company in Arizona where elite athletes were trained in what was stagnant.

00;38;52;07 - 00;39;11;20

It would still be their coaching every day. But because of the I'm going to I'm going to do I'm not going to start going to be about me. It's going to be about the individuals that were to serve us. That's allowed us to reach all the people that we've reached over the years. I mean, thousands and thousands, if not millions of people that we've impacted.

00;39;11;22 - 00;39;36;27

And then again, as you as you think about the the name and the brand, you know, the moment you see athletes performance, you automatically associate, you know, the stigma of a training for sport. And when you disconnect from that stigma and you look at it, do you know, you're not associated with that. The name EXOS now doesn't carry that.

00;39;36;27 - 00;40;01;04

Oh, it's just for an athlete like this. This is a this is a group of people that can help me, whether I am again, if I'm in the military or if I'm just looking for how to combat my sedentary lifestyle that my office job gives me. This is a brand and a system that can help me accomplish any of those things.

00;40;01;06 - 00;40;21;19

And it just doesn't it's not pigeonholed. I'm used to, you know, to 1 to 1 area, which is one of the reasons that we wanted to get away from that name in the first place. It makes sense. It was a nice, nice way of explaining it. I mean, it was clear and concise. And the thing is, is the reality is because I am one that didn't really understand the depth of those offerings.

00;40;21;25 - 00;40;52;28

So for everybody out there, EXOS is the primary fitness center management company for Oracle. And wherever there's a fitness center in our locations, there's EXOS. And if one were to go to our headquarters, you would see a very nice facility with an outstanding staff that until you actually have the conversation, you would just think it's fitness center because you're you're conditioned to just realize whatever a gym looks like and you're like, Oh, it's got stuff in there.

00;40;53;05 - 00;41;16;00

There's some people stand around, help in training, what have you. But I will advocate for this. If you're curious about what else can be offered to you and you know that you need something else other than just the physical component, you need to have a conversation and be curious with the staff members and could do this anywhere to kind of test what would Anthony's describing it, what EXOS is.

00;41;16;01 - 00;41;58;13

It's it's the holistic view that encompasses all the elements, the pillars, all the elements of what an individual needs to plan for. Because one if one of those is deficient, that's not going to get you to where you believe you want to be, where you can be your potential. So that's the element, which is what got us to sit here today and introduce this seven episode series of EXOS the depth of EXOS today we're just talking about the introduction and some at the very high level, but it's to set the foundation of the people that EXOS brings in which Anthony's talked about who he's developed to be, from where he started to where he is.

00;41;58;13 - 00;42;22;27

That's an element that's a good symbolic range of the type of individuals that you'll be working with when you talk about EXOS. Well, we'll get into that a little bit more detail now because I am curious and there's more to share. But just just to be clear, the the realization that everybody has to have on how we're how how you play a part in society is to understand where you need to be better.

00;42;23;00 - 00;42;59;01

And that comes with realizing how well rounded of a perspective you should have on the pillars, because they all play a part in each other. So now, now that we have a better understanding of the cultural component which traversed from an old way of of presenting the value athletic performance, focusing on like you call it, like a pigeonhole sort of to where now people just misunderstood that to be only specific to a demographic, a specific demographic that is moral, all encompassing of anybody.

00;42;59;03 - 00;43;30;16

What what organizations or what other demographics are you specializing in now with what you're offering? Well, you have at our at our training facilities, you'll see here you're going to see that we work with the spectrum of athletes from youth athletes, high school athletes, sports teams, college athletes, pro athletes of all sports. We also have extensive experience working with the military, which is really my favorite, my most favorite thing that we do.

00;43;30;18 - 00;43;53;00

And very thankfully, you know, a lot of the work that we did in the military, we have done military was originated out of our facility here in Florida. And so if you think about the broad reach of of access, every spectrum of athlete and in in even every spectrum of of military personnel. So there's a think about the life cycle of in the military.

00;43;53;02 - 00;44;14;28

If you're young in your career versus you're in the middle of your career, you're 20 years in, you know, we have solutions for both of those. You've been injured and you're trying to get back to the, you know, operational capacity. We have programs for that. That's that is our that's our our key program in Florida. We call it the Accelerated Return of Duty program.

00;44;15;00 - 00;44;41;20

And so that program is built around this concept that you have an injury that has that prevents you from doing your job. You come here and we take you to an immersive experience. That is a monologue that we help you get back to where you're able to go back and do your job. So there's that. But then there's also as you begin to transition out of the military, your goals change, right?

00;44;41;20 - 00;45;16;19

You're you're trying to stay fit for operational fitness. Well, then as you retire, you're not trying to maintain that level of operational readiness. You're just looking for I want to feel good. I'm going to wake up in the morning in my back, not hurt. I want to maintain a level of fitness for my health and longevity. And so then whether again, whether I'm early in my career, whether I am operational, whether I'm injured, trying to get back to operational status or retired and looking for health or longevity we have plans for all of those.

00;45;16;21 - 00;45;34;19

And then if you think about it, this and probably the same concept for somebody who's, you know, just general population, we're all at one point in time play sports or you have these different goals. But then at some point time training is really reduced down to I just want to be healthy and be able to function and live the life that I want to live.

00;45;34;22 - 00;45;59;00

And so EXOS is motto now is we help you get ready for the moments that matter most to you wherever you are. Right? And then if you if you look into the corporate setting, you, you know, you may not be training for a particular event or something that requires you to perform at your peak. However, you know, these days we do most of our work on computers.

00;45;59;00 - 00;46;26;06

And so you're sitting at a desk for 6 hours a day, you know, how do I get out of that position and and go and activate my body in a way that allows me to maintain a level of cardiovascular fitness, you know, muscular strength and movement in my body to where I can still thrive as a person and live the life that I want to live, even though I'm not I don't have any particular performance related goals in terms that relate to sport or my job.

00;46;26;08 - 00;46;52;11

And so again, I'm an athlete or I'm in the military or I am working as a as a employee for a corporation, I still, you know, wherever I'm at there, we we serve that whole spectrum of individual needs that's solid. I mean, that's I guess the question I would have then is how do you how do you plan for with the staff?

00;46;52;11 - 00;47;17;26

How does the staff learn the component of discovery? I'm going to say discovery, but you're asking questions and finding goals. I mean, there's got to be at some point, not only the hard skills that you have, bringing to the table, learning how to to work with bodies and then all of its functions, but how the conversations going with people that want to learn exactly what it is that people say and how it translates and what they mean.

00;47;17;29 - 00;47;42;06

Yeah. So if you really if you really zoom out and look at what it is that we do, we take the needs and the wants of people and we build game plans from that. And so you, you find out what somebody needs through a process of evaluations and that can be different depending upon where you are. But here at this, we're out we're at our performance training facility here.

00;47;42;09 - 00;48;06;21

When somebody shows up, we take them through an in-depth physical therapy and email to find out about injury history to to to have to move and and discover other dysfunctions in their movement. Do they have pain with all of that? Gives us gives us information about needs. Okay. We'll take them through a nutrition consultation to find out what their goals are.

00;48;06;21 - 00;48;26;25

From a nutrition standpoint, are you trying to maintain your body weight, lose body weight, increase body weight, change your body composition? What are your goals there? Well, that needs assessment for body comp or for nutrition standpoint drives the plan and game plan for how we support someone a nutritionally an improved form of performance standpoint. We have performance evals.

00;48;26;25 - 00;48;50;15

We take our people through. That usually takes the form of doing what's on top of force plates where we can look at how they how they generate and exhort force. And so we have a we have a performance evals, nutrition evals and physical therapy evals that gives us information about needs. Sometimes you don't even know the things that you need from there.

00;48;50;15 - 00;49;12;12

We do. We do a a consultation where we find out what somebody wants. And that's a that's essentially sitting down with somebody having a conversation seeking to understand what are their big picture goals and the short term goals, like what are you trying to accomplish while you're being here? And we take those that combination of needs and wants and we build a game plan that fits that.

00;49;12;15 - 00;49;39;16

Now, if you zoom out and say, well, how like that same concept, the Navy came to us many years ago, the Navy, and they said, Hey, we hired we have all these fitness instructors that train our sailors across the entire force. There's no integration or it's all just it's all siloed. And in terms of how we do it, can you guys help us build a training program for our sailors?

00;49;39;18 - 00;50;05;14

And we said, absolutely. So we went out to the Navy and they took us aboard their large ships. They took us aboard aircraft carriers into submarines, onto their actual gyms that they have. That's a military base. And they said, Can you build us a program that whether you were at a full working gym out on base, if you're on an aircraft carrier or in a submarine, then you can still do it.

00;50;05;16 - 00;50;25;09

And so we built a program for the Navy called the Navy's program, which stands for Naval Operational Fitness and Fueling series. And we built that. And if you look it up, you look up NAF, Naval Operational Fitness and PHENIX areas, you will see a program that 100% of that was built by EXOS. And how do we build that?

00;50;25;09 - 00;50;47;05

We had to go in and seek to understand what are the needs, what are the constraints, what's the environment, what are you guys asking for? Who's the problem, what population we're working with? And and so we built that program and I was part of the team that went out and ran education courses with all of their all of their fitness instructors for the Navy, for the for the Navy.

00;50;47;07 - 00;51;14;19

And we ran these education courses where they're with their teams going through our training methodology and actually diving into the actual training program self. And so that's just an example of seeking to understand it before you go build a game plan. The performance code we have is called Learn, design, deliver, refine. And so you learn about somebody. You design a game plan, you deliver the game plan, right?

00;51;14;19 - 00;51;33;28

And then you riff and then you refine the game plan. And it's a constant thing about a feedback loop, learning design to deliver, refine, learn, design, deliver, refine. You constantly are doing that with people that you're working with or organizations you're working with. The idea there is in fact the growth, the growth pattern, right, is as things evolve and change, you're constantly reassessing.

00;51;33;28 - 00;51;58;17

So I, I can see why it's successful. You're out there putting in front of everything that you're doing. The intent, if it's not the name, it's the people and the way people conduct themselves. It's the the manner in which the professionalism and the brand and the caring of the individuals paying it forward for the foundation that's been built, it's the continuity between an expectation and hope.

00;51;58;19 - 00;52;17;01

You know, an individual that is in, I'm sure you know, in front of you is there's hope. A lot of you know, for me it would be desperation. I'm like, I'm in a place right now I'm not familiar with and I'm I'm struggling to accept it because I'm limited in the things that I used to do. Well, I can't do as well now.

00;52;17;03 - 00;52;42;10

And I'm hoping that you can help me. So with that comes with the confidence in what you're doing individually as you represent the organization. But the approach I think, is it's an outstanding approach because it's incorporating the factors that not only makes sense, it gives us the confidence in trusting you to help reshape whatever it is that we're needing and wanting.

00;52;42;12 - 00;53;13;24

Yeah, I suppose we can leave it there because we don't want to give too much away for the next couple episodes, but that's been my head. What what else would you like to share that we haven't yet covered? So if you really think about our our work with this other military just really big picture of man probably back 2005, I believe there were some groups inside of the special operations community that that came to service and said, we want to seek to understand what you guys do and apply it to our world.

In this episode, Derrick shares how his 27-year Marine Corps career exposed his innate ability to identify opportunities where he leverages his drive and passion for selfless service while surrounding himself with first-hand experiences of effective leadership. We also cover how his military transition plan revealed unexpected emotions and responses to change that ultimately placed him at the right place at the right time while forging the strength of his family. As Derrick assumes the role of MAVEN Chair, it is an honor to pass the responsibility to him as we continue the mission to serve. Please remember to check in on your buddies, family, and ask for help. https://www.oracle.com/veterans/ -------------------------------------------------------- Episode Transcript:

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;32;13

You're listening to the Oracle MAVEN podcast where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized sessions and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to season two of the MAVEN podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer. And in this first episode I'm joined by our guest, Derek Oliver, lead manager, Marine veteran and new chair for MAVEN, Oracle's military affiliated veteran employee network.

00;00;32;20 - 00;00;55;06

In this episode, Derek shares how his 27 year Marine Corps career exposed his innate ability to identify opportunities where he leverages his drive and passion for selfless service while surrounding himself with firsthand experiences of effective leadership. We also cover how his military transition plan revealed unexpected emotions and responses, the change that ultimately placed him at the right place at the right time while forging the strength of his family.

00;00;55;11 - 00;01;15;17

As Derek assumes the role of MAVEN chair. It is an honor to pass this responsibility to him as we continue the mission to serve. Please remember to check in on your buddies and your family and ask for help. Thanks for listening. What's going on? Derek? Chris, What's going on, my friend? How are we doing this morning? We're doing all right.

00;01;15;23 - 00;01;45;10

You have a good weekend. A busy weekend, but, you know, no complaints. Every time I can get the family together, I'm always having a good weekend. Yeah. How about you? Yup. Same. As you know, it's our new fiscal year. Also a lot of reflection and a lot of planning, figuring out what's next. That was the internal text from the team is we get like, okay, we closed out last fiscal year, let's relax and relate and be ready to hit the ground running come Monday.

00;01;45;13 - 00;02;28;26

So, yeah, I understand that. Yup. All right. All right, everyone. So we have Derek here. Derek is a recent Oracle employee, came through the Cerner acquisition, but before that, he spent 27 years in the Marines. And my friend, 27, 27 years couldn't make it to 30, but we won't hold him against. So Derek and I became acquaintances several months ago, where through Cerner, he was finding his way through all of the contacts and maneuvering through the relationships coming into Oracle, and he stumbled across Maven, our military affiliated veteran employee network as most of you know, if you're new, that's what it stands for.

00;02;28;28 - 00;02;48;14

And as Derek came in, he was asking questions to learn more about it. He was super excited. I would like to say that he had the initial energy of somebody that's curious and he hasn't scaled back that energy. And I think that's the thing that we're going to talk about. One of the things we'll talk about today on what he's doing, how he got to be where he is.

00;02;48;14 - 00;03;08;12

But before we do all of that, Derek, if you wouldn't mind just giving us a little history on you. I mean, there's a lot to unpack in 27 years and before. So let's go. It is I would tell you, for me, it's strange to talk about me. I'm a kid from New Orleans. I grew up in the projects in New Orleans.

00;03;08;15 - 00;03;31;05

I did my time, you know, got in some trouble, you know, but had a strong upbringing from my mom so that was a good thing. My mom helped set the groundwork for me saying, hey, do the right thing for the right reasons. I needed something to challenge me. Hey, hey, come the Marine Corps. So actually, for you, Chris, I actually went to the Army recruiter first.

00;03;31;08 - 00;03;51;14

You just. So you went to our recruiter first. Here we go. Say, Hey, listen, I need my paperwork done by Monday so I could be ready. He can do it. I went to the Marine Corps recruiter. I say, Hey, I need my paperwork done by by Monday. He had it. Then the next day, the next day. So hey, let so, you know, shout out to you the army.

00;03;51;15 - 00;04;15;09

I think you got to try first. I was Army JROTC my entire time in high school so it was only fitting. But Army couldn't get it done for me. Couldn't get it done. We'll take we'll take that excess. That's fine. I want names and locations. Yeah. So onto the Marine Corps. 27 years, I would tell you it was a good 27 year.

00;04;15;09 - 00;04;42;22

Right. Got to see alot, got to travel the world, which I wanted to do. I me, man, I had some great duty stations Naples, Italy career you know, got to travel to Thailand, things like that. So for me it was great. It was an interesting ride because I had some good leadership along the way. I made up to E7 Gunnery Sergeant, but I wanted to do more.

00;04;42;22 - 00;04;59;23

I wanted to make some decisions. So I transitioned to the one of summer out in the Marine Corps. I made up to Chief Warrant Officer three, like, I want to make some more decisions. I want you know, I want to be in charge. they're like, Hey, well, you got to become a limited duty officer.

00;04;59;25 - 00;05;24;03

Sure enough, I submit it applies. Spring was accepted, made up to the rank of major. I think I've had a great career. I have no regrets, no complaints, like you say. Yes. I didn't make it to 30. It was a business decision on a on the part of my wife. She made a business decision. It me being a good vice president, I say yes, ma'am.

00;05;24;10 - 00;05;47;15

And agreed to separate from service. But that was part of the business process of making sure that my home front could be taken care of. Finally, after doing what I needed to do for 27 years to make sure my career was well. So it was a business decision on our case which landed me to the transition process, which was arrived.

00;05;47;17 - 00;06;13;04

And people don't think about that, that right after 27 years in uniform finally doing something different. It was interesting. I went through a lot of transition workshops and ended up at Cerner, some good leadership there. They helped me through the transition, but during that transition was like, Hey, get ready to make one more transition. We just got acquired by Oracle, so I had to learn to discern the concept.

00;06;13;07 - 00;06;31;16

All I learned at Oracle at the same time, which led me to Maven and you and I Connection, So I hope I was able to bring you up to speed on all 27 some years. Yeah, you brought me up to speed, but that's like the cliff notes, so. Okay, let's dive in a little bit, if you wouldn't mind.

00;06;31;19 - 00;06;49;20

Oh, boy. Here we go. Here we go. How old were you when you when you started to think, Well, a couple things. What got you thinking about the military? For me, I knew I had to leave New Orleans. I wanted to see something different. Me staying in New Orleans, I felt wasn't going to bring me anything different. So I had to change my environment.

00;06;49;27 - 00;07;09;16

So the military, I was always taught the military was the easiest way to change that scenery and give me a life for myself. So going to the military was already a done deal. Just what branch got it. And so to be clear, if you all picked that up, he used the word easy. So the army wasn't easy because we have standards.

00;07;09;16 - 00;07;34;24

But he'd the easy when in the Marines they were easy. Yeah. Like the way you choose to fill your Army recruiter part. Got it. Just say so. How old were you when you when you went looking? I was 17. I literally I did it my junior year, the end of my sophomore year junior high school. So my mom, I say, Hey, I need you to sign up.

00;07;34;25 - 00;07;55;21

I wanted to go into my senior year knowing that I have a plan for my life. So that's what we did. Okay. Any any resistance from Mom? She was hesitant. She was like, Are you sure? I'm like, Listen, I do you signing now or I'm going to get it done. When you did pro long and and she was my okay, got it.

00;07;55;21 - 00;08;15;29

And I tell you to this day we talk about that conversation we had she like I'm glad I made I made a decision to go with you on it so. Well that's good. I mean that's that talks a little bit about being able to have the trust and confidence, I'm sure. Yeah. It actually made it easier knowing that I had her support.

00;08;16;00 - 00;08;36;07

At the end of the day, you know, she was like, Hey, we've been through this. And she, like you was raised by me. So any boot camp you be able to withstand that was like, yeah, it's just down know the things you tell me. So yes, it was good. Nice. That's good. All right. So 17. So when did you actually get in?

00;08;36;09 - 00;08;57;19

What age? 17. I was 17. I look, I was. Yeah, I was. Because I didn't turn 18 until November. So I, I graduated boot camp September 29th. So literally, I was still under age. I had made sure I had my mom paperwork When I went to and everything. So it was a big deal and is a big deal.

00;08;57;22 - 00;09;24;01

What year was that? 95 and 95. Oh yeah. Yeah, You were. You were coming in? I was getting out. Yeah, I remember that. Crossing paths. Yeah. It's good year. I mean that's a it's a lot of transition going on, you know, not a lot going on in the world. Clearly, you know, what's to come after that. Several years after that is, is a lot hinging on that so so how outward you end up going to boot camp.

00;09;24;03 - 00;09;51;01

So I got to make the decision to go east or west go so my work was like, good west go. You could deal with the heat by going to the East Coast and deal with those simply, I'm glad I made that decision. I went to San Diego, Nice, sunny San Diego. I can't beat San Diego. So when after after boot camp, talk a little bit about that process and where you wind up going and what kind of activities what would you most.

00;09;51;03 - 00;10;10;27

So book boot camp. I did a combat training. I did all on the West Coast. So finally I got to go to I was started off full service Marine, so, you know, went to full service school. I got to go to a joint school. So I was one of the first Marine class to go to the joint school.

00;10;10;27 - 00;10;37;23

So I actually checked into Camp Johnson. They're like, No, you going to Fort Lee, Virginia? I'm like, Fort Lee. So we had to literally pack up the school from Johnson and move it to Fort Lee Army base. Here we go again. Can't get away with it. Yeah, they didn't know the do Marines on that base. So again career started out will finish number two in school and the guy in front of me was like hey, listen, I don't want my orders.

00;10;37;25 - 00;11;03;27

I want to stay close to home. I'm like, Well, you got orders too. I'll take them. Naples, Italy were It's done too easy. Yeah. So this young lady again from New Orleans at this time in Naples, Italy. So funny part about that story I checked into Enable. There was like, Hey, we need you to go pick up some supplies in our line.

00;11;03;29 - 00;11;30;19

I don't know how to drive. You didn't have a license? No license, no lies. So I learned how to drive on a flight line in Naples, Italy, for my sergeant, teaching me how to drive so I could get a license so I would be able to drive vehicles in New Orleans. A young kid, we use public transportation. We didn't own a vehicle, so it was the way I made it around.

00;11;30;21 - 00;11;55;18

Nice. Yes. How did that go? I tell you, it was scary. It was scary. But we got it done. I actually passed my driver's test when they got my license and mailed to me. So I officially had a Louisiana driver's license with no picture for three years. Nice. That's a good story. It's. It's heating up. So how long are you in Italy?

00;11;55;21 - 00;12;14;18

In Italy for? Three and a half years. Came back to the states, went to Lazio, didn't want to get orders in Route two eight, denied OJ's post in the Corps. We're going to headquarters in the fish bowl. And that's what my life in the fish bowl actually started. Okay. Oh, there it goes. So let's let's start a little bit about that.

00;12;14;18 - 00;12;32;08

So when you when you got to that location, what's your rank? I was a corporal, corporal, moving up. So talk a little bit about the fishbowl. So being in a fishbowl, you know, going to eighth and going to D.C., you know, you have all the senior leaders there. I'm like, man, what am I doing here? I'm not cut out for this.

00;12;32;09 - 00;12;53;15

But little did I know me and able to be around the senior leadership of the Marine Corps and seeing how they interact, then seeing how those the the spotlight was there actually made me change my mindset on the Marine Corps is like, hey, less is more. Because at that point I'll say I'm hitting my four year mark, I'm ready to get out.

00;12;53;15 - 00;13;18;17

But I got there and I'm like, Man, there's more to this. You already had to get overseas too. Let's get us one more go at it. The re-enlisted for another four years from that point. Got it. And I think this is this has started the connections of your like the pursuit of why you're making your decision. So when you left and as a 17 year old young man, did you have an idea of what you were seeking other than just to get out of Louisiana?

00;13;18;19 - 00;13;38;19

I had no idea. I had no direction at eight. I think this is where the light bulb really went off and to see that, hey, you did get a overseas tour, but this it this is bigger than you. The decision is bigger than you. So, yeah, this would that I think was the turning point for me. Got it.

00;13;38;21 - 00;13;59;12

Yeah. So you started to dial into some of the things of probably inspiration, curiosity, a little bit of both or anything else. A little bit of both. And started to learn that everything is not about Derek, even though I never thought I was always worried about making things better for me, you know, to take pressure off my mom.

00;13;59;12 - 00;14;24;26

But it kind of switched. There is about making others around me better because I got to witness it daily. So that was a really turning point for me. Okay, so you signed up for another for anything in addition to that as far as going somewhere else, or was it just to stay there? Nothing special, really. Nothing special at that point was like, hey, look, you signed up for another four years.

00;14;25;02 - 00;14;56;26

Let's see what it brings. You Advance got promoted to sergeant, you know, eventually starts on my next duty station. But for me, in between, I got married. Nice. Get married, my dear wife. But I will tell you, stats are on is where it really hit home for me. It really hit home for me because I while as a starting, I had Marines and bus stops and I had a section that I was accountable.

00;14;56;26 - 00;15;24;01

I had to report things. And seeing how my Marines responded to me, taking care of them is what really, really drove it home for me. Got it? Yeah, it was time. Okay, Derek, let's get yourself really together and start taking care of you people. Yeah. So starting to starting to develop a base, right? So now you're newly married, realizing things are much bigger than than you.

00;15;24;03 - 00;15;53;00

And you're seeing the results of your effort, of taking care of others. So that brings us eight years. What's going on at that point? What was going on at that point? I see. That's when I mature. I guess I will tell you I that's when I really matured between having a family of my own and a family of Marines because I was like I was focused on everybody else and I saw the fruits of my labor when everybody around me did good, I was happy.

00;15;53;02 - 00;16;14;13

My life was better. So truly a turning point for me. Okay, so you hit E7. So hit E7. I was like, you know, I had done some good things. So by this time I had matured as a full service Marine, as a E7. I think I had that pinnacle because I was cooking for the commandant of Marine Corps at that time.

00;16;14;15 - 00;16;35;12

So the senior person in the Marine Corps, you know, I was cooking for him a team of four. We had a great team too, great memories. But I'd never forget I was sitting there. We had just got done. Some dignitary left and some decision was made. I'm reading email, some decision, and I'm like, Man, it's a dumb decision.

00;16;35;12 - 00;17;01;01

Why do we make it? My the down looked at me like Danny Oh, you could do is execute on it. You're enlisting Marine we execute orders we don't make decision right I don't make no sense. I will become an officer. I was like, done, done. Somebody put it out there. Yeah. So because I never for me, I never had the notion of being also, I enjoy being an enlisted man.

00;17;01;01 - 00;17;24;19

I enjoy me. I told Master Gunn, I'm to be master, you know, I'm taking your spot. So that was always my driver. But he hit a home for me. He said, Listen, in the Marine Corps, you as enlisted more. You can advise the leadership and everything, but the officer will make that decision or set that policy. So I wanted to be a part of that process.

00;17;24;22 - 00;17;46;05

So that's why I became a chief warrant officer. Is this, do you think, ties back to when you were a kid growing up? Were you would you looking at it now in hindsight as a kid, would you consider yourself to be a leader, somebody that's fitting into that role of what you're pursuing now after that realization as a new seven?

00;17;46;07 - 00;18;09;14

I didn't see it. I didn't think of myself as a leader. But inherently I was, you know, my upbringing, you know, again, having a base did establish that. But I never saw myself that I didn't see even as to become an officer. I saw myself as one of the Marines. And I think that's what helped drove my leadership.

00;18;09;16 - 00;18;32;16

Got it. Makes sense. Okay. So let's pause on that comment on in the Marine Corps, you got to have a good nugget, a story, conversation, anything. So I would tell you one of the biggest the biggest things that that matter to me and I took from him, we was loading and playing, getting ready to go on the trip.

00;18;32;18 - 00;18;55;13

We'd take him, taking out, putting the bags on the plane, coming out, Marine Corps, taking his bags, putting them on a make sure we got this. He stopped and he looked at me like, Gunny, if I ever get to get to load my own bags, we got a problem. Then it's time for me to retire. Like I'm working just like you are.

00;18;55;13 - 00;19;16;06

I should be able to help you now. I'm just out floor, the House floor. And from that, I took you. Never too much of a leader that you can move your own back. Do the grunt work is what I saw it as. And for me, that's the who me that matter to me. So that's the one big lug.

00;19;16;07 - 00;19;37;25

And I tell him about it all the time. Like, sir, that day stuck with me because I was born all the time. We had just got done with events. It was right to traveling. So yeah, that matter. Got it? Yeah. That's. That's a good one. Adds to probably how you're shaping up to be the person that at that point who you are wanting to be there.

00;19;37;25 - 00;20;01;24

Time I spent with the commandant and his team, the leadership team helped shake me as officer. It really did because I got to see true leaders, the expert work. It was an unfiltered environment it was in and it was no cameras around. I mean, so things that they truly care about it is show day in and day out.

00;20;01;26 - 00;20;24;12

And for me, I knew that's the kind of officer I wanted to be. When I say I'm going to do, I'm going to do what I say in that matter, you're on it. But you made a pit stop. So instead of going straight, obviously you go to warrant. How'd that come about? So for me, because the food service community was so important to me, that's where I wanted to be.

00;20;24;14 - 00;20;53;14

I wanted to make sure I took care of the food service because, again, that's my career. That's where I come from. So that's why I want to do that. It's like, Hey, you to do. The expert is being looked at as a duty expert that mattered. That mattered kind of the best of both worlds, right? Yeah. So I had the institutional knowledge of what their enlisted Marines were going through, but I had the responsibility and authority of officer.

00;20;53;14 - 00;21;24;26

My I said, I'm right in the middle. You can't complain about that. What years that then that was 2010. Okay, that was 2010. So but it could be a long time, though, because you you really don't belong to either world. You you kind of happen in the middle. So some dangerous territory some time because you got to think of you got to think about I have a lot of my friends that I grew up with from their list.

00;21;24;26 - 00;21;57;15

They were all that, Hey, those are my buddies. But it was tough. And I will tell you that one of the hardest moments when I had the discipline administratively, one of my friends, peer promotions, those are always challenging. So you were you were still with the team that you had been in enlisted? No, I wasn't. So the separated the Marine Corps made sure we got separated, but I went, I'm having some guys that I grew up with come work under my charge.

00;21;57;18 - 00;22;31;17

I was a surreal moment. Yeah, that becomes real at that moment, right? Yes. As far as the the complexity, right. It's not all about the things that you want it to be or see it as being. It's it becomes real. Yeah, it does. So 2010. Yep. W three And so that was what, 20 what 15, 16. And you know, by that time I was when we was overseas, we did seven years in Japan, living life with the family, everybody's family.

00;22;31;23 - 00;22;56;20

Yeah, everybody there. We getting to see the world travel, you know, the family like to say, hey, they did seven years on Japan. In Okinawa, I was always gone. Some exercise, always on bombing somewhere, doing something but enjoying life and being Marines. Got it. And then you're still not happy, still not content to keep pushing. I need more.

00;22;56;20 - 00;23;24;11

I need more. So 20 what? 15? Decide to submit in the Marine Corps. We got eliminated duty officer when that you want us to submit and become a captain. So convert to the captain I would say goes. I don't think I got what it takes. Let's see I pushed the envelope was boarded screen selected man we down at Parris Island enjoying life So then we get the call.

00;23;24;11 - 00;23;44;17

Hey, guess what, Captain? You got to like that. But now you got to come to the Pentagon. He just said, Don't do my beltway tours. So that was it. Couldn't see it. He just. He just dropped his shoulders as if it was a bad thing. It's like going to DC because I was like, because I knew what I was walking into.

00;23;44;20 - 00;24;11;14

So to the Far side of Puzzle Palace, they call it so to be the operations officer for Marine Corps Food Service Program. Great tours, great tours, because I got to advise the director for Michael Food Service own DOD policy. You know, I got to be at the pinnacle of transformation. Derek has finally got to a place where he wanted to be.

00;24;11;16 - 00;24;39;14

Yes. So I thought so I thought I got back to headquarters like I would come home to my wife, think, why get to, you know, affect policy, be at the forefront. I miss my Marines. I miss being around Marines. I miss talking to Marine because Pentagon is senior leadership. You know, you some of the list of Marine Bubba is senior enlisted Marines.

00;24;39;14 - 00;24;58;13

You know, it's not that last school, but that e to that E three where the rubber meets the road. So yeah, I was ready to get out. I was ready to do my time, make sure I advocated for the Marine Corps and get out. Yeah, but not for nothing. Right. So it's it's an ambition. It's a it's a curiosity.

00;24;58;17 - 00;25;34;04

I mean, you're talking now at that point is 20 years ish, right, of building the base, Understanding your life stage is now increasing your awareness of what you want to do, where you want to go, figuring out how to get there. Where did you get the confidence to be able to make these leaps? It sounds like early on when you were getting told, you know, you're you're an advisor if you want to if you want to give orders and make policy, you've got to go officer to that conversation to where that was your push seemingly.

00;25;34;06 - 00;25;53;29

Where did you where did you get the confidence after that go from warrant to officer? So I got there from being around the Marines, making sure that I could advocate for Marines. So like I told them, I was I made a shift in my life. It wasn't about Derek. It was about people around me, how I can make things better.

00;25;53;29 - 00;26;11;18

So that push came from a twofold effort. One, I could advocate better for the Marines that I was in charge of who I was, you know, taking care of and to a better life for my family. So it was a twofold process. And at the end of the day, it was anything for me, it was for everybody around me.

00;26;11;18 - 00;26;37;29

So when I made the leap, everybody else prospered. And that was my mindset behind it not makes sense. I mean, and we're going to get to this, but it's building the story of when I met you the way you would carry yourself and the questions you would ask, the information you'd bring to the conversation was giving me an indication of how you wanted to understand a certain level of detail through the experience.

00;26;38;02 - 00;27;00;16

Right? Have the actual street knowledge, if you will, versus theory book knowledge of understanding words. It's more along going through the experience to where that's going to establish the ability to know how to navigate the things that are necessary that we're like you just said, others will prosper. So now, now you use you got that itch that you wanted to get back in front of your Marines.

00;27;00;16 - 00;27;31;10

So it sounds like you're going to command from the air. So it worked out for me. I was selected to go down to Fort Lee again. Look at that. Look at that down to Fort Lee to be the company commander and director, directed food service school, best of both worlds while I was do had it man I got the best of both worlds because now I got to run the school that helped build my career.

00;27;31;12 - 00;27;59;04

But I also got the command. I had command time and having the command of upwards of 500 Marines ebb and flow, man, that's some responsibility. But for me, I got to talk to Marines every day of the week. I got to talk to junior Marines and just listen to their great stories and talk about their mom and dad, where they came from every day.

00;27;59;07 - 00;28;21;00

I was at Hog's Heaven. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. I drove myself crazy, that's for sure. Well, we're getting to that. So it's a it's an attitude, right? I think it's safe to say it's like it's not only the things that personally that you're looking at and how you perceive things to be and what you want to be involved in, but it's making a connection of of the other side.

00;28;21;00 - 00;28;48;05

So you've gone through decisions of others. You've recognized some areas of improvement, some ways to enhance, increase the outcomes would be morale and energy and kind of just the inspiration for others to to not have to at least worry about that part of whatever they're going through. And that's kind of the point of leaders is to where if you're going to be distracted or lose focus on attention or put attention on something, it's not for what you're responsible for, not on your watch, if you will.

00;28;48;09 - 00;29;11;02

Right. So that's pretty impressive to be able to work through, you know, the timelines and get to that point. Not losing your focus, although you probably didn't have it when you started. It became apparent through your actions of what you were determined to achieve. So talk a little bit about what like what were you able to do specifically?

00;29;11;04 - 00;29;32;03

You know, like the main thing that you remember that was the most impactful at that point for you and how you were able to drive change? For me, the most impactful for me, and I tell you, is still relevant now is the engagement with the families of the people. So I had a student population, so I was in charge of the schools.

00;29;32;03 - 00;29;51;21

So the student population. So this was a critical point in no young individual's career, not only in their career, but in a family's belief in the Marine Corps and how there was going to be care for in the Marine Corps. So for me, that was essential. And that's all the staff. Yes, they're grown men and women, but they're grown men and women.

00;29;51;21 - 00;30;16;13

That was just someone's baby a couple of months ago and that matter. And I always went back to the staff and say, listen, make sure that you're keeping the young Marine informed so he or she can keep their parents informed. But the parent engagement is one thing that I instill. We put there. We use social media, these these young Marine use social media and their families was there.

00;30;16;20 - 00;30;36;03

So putting that information pipeline into place to keep the families involved and keep their stress down at it. Because for me as a parent, I had a kid by this time I had a kid off in college. So receiving information and knowing how my kid is doing, I was able to put that para head on in a simulator to lead the Marines.

00;30;36;03 - 00;31;03;02

So the biggest thing I put in place was that communication pipeline from this student back to their parents and is still in place now. And every commander that they came behind me has told me, Man, we're glad you did that, because we see it makes a difference. That's nice. And that you're absolutely right that you couldn't there wouldn't have been a better answer than that is because the fact that there is the uncertainty coming up.

00;31;03;04 - 00;31;26;02

And somewhat of what I was asking, you know, how your mom took the news that you wanted to go off and do those things. You know, there's there's a place, too, where as kids, children of parents, where we owe it to them to give them some level of safety, security. And that solitude comes with information. And so I like that.

00;31;26;02 - 00;31;51;05

That's that's thanks for doing that, because that's that's an important element that sometimes can easily be lost in the pursuit of mission. Right. When we when we get so focused on doing something else that it's easy to forget to tell people what's going on here. I used to be, but yes, they are Marines. True or true, they have the title of a child, but they have a mom or dad that's sitting at home crying, wonder what's going on with them.

00;31;51;05 - 00;32;15;21

So it matter. Yep. Family. I mean, that's that's key. All right. So when did you start thinking about getting out? Let's where we're in your life stage, you're starting to consider what you're going to do post Marines. Yeah. So? So during this time, while I'm at Fort Lee, what people didn't realize was Malik and I made another business decision was to leave her in the kids in place.

00;32;15;24 - 00;32;39;16

So Fort Lee was a two and a half hour drive away from where we were living at. My youngest two daughters were in the good school district. Everything was going there. So we actually we're geographically separated during the week. So I was there Monday, Monday through Thursday at Fort Lee. I didn't come home on Fridays to take care of the family at that point.

00;32;39;16 - 00;33;02;22

We had been doing this for three years now. It was like, okay, what's next? But my daughters came to me like that. Think about this. My youngest daughter has a chance to go to middle school in high school, in the same place that's never been done by the older two girls before. They're like, That could be beneficial to her mind.

00;33;02;25 - 00;33;27;25

So this high tech conversation happened around, you know, the girls over the weekend. So that's when me and Malik started playing around with it. We started looking at it like it was best for the family. So we actually toured over this decision for about I want to say, eight months, eight months. One weekend I was home. My youngest daughter looked just like that.

00;33;27;25 - 00;33;57;07

I really like this place. She like I like my friends here. I get to see everybody. So I like that. My wife, Malik, I see we're done just like that. That Sunday, I sat at my desk. I typed up my intent to retire, to bring it to work with me. The next day. So that decision was made in 2022.

00;33;57;09 - 00;34;30;19

So it was tough. I bet 2022 last year. Yeah, it was tough. It's a lifetime whether I yeah, that was one of the hardest decisions I had to make when I went in to talk to my commander. I'm right, sir. I'm going to submit for it. I'm like, No, no, really, Did you think about this? So I brought him through the process.

00;34;30;19 - 00;34;57;08

You know what happened? So he's like, Just think about it. So I left my paperwork on his desk, you know, when he did my thing, didn't talk to anyone about it. So Friday before I left to head back home, I stopped by his office. This is sir. Yes? It's time. It's time. So that weekend must have been fun.

00;34;57;11 - 00;35;23;18

How? You know, a lot of. A lot of a lot of contradiction. Yeah. Back and forth. It was a lot of back. It was a lot of back for a man. I think about writing this issue like, can we put the papers back That's like that. Their ship has sailed. So I tell you, I actually looked up who I could call heck was my record to actually stop the process.

00;35;23;20 - 00;35;46;07

That's how back and forth we went with it. But finally, when I got the notification, Hey, your pin, the retirement has been approved, was going through the process. We switched gears and started looking at the next mission. Got it. So what at that point? So how much time between that day and then when you're actually going to separate?

00;35;46;10 - 00;36;07;21

What's that We had we had nine months, nine months, nine months, the execution time from approval to actual exit date. Got it. So, so nine plus eight. So year and a half, 17 months. Right. Some math, right. It's just a year contemplated. So for for everybody out there and we're talking because we're now we're getting into the transition component.

00;36;07;21 - 00;36;27;14

And when I say last year and I emphasize that because we're going fast track this, but we'll circle back is to think about separating after 27 years. And I don't there's not a whole lot of us that can understand what 27 years is until you go through 27 years of something and then be able to talk about it in.

00;36;27;16 - 00;36;48;16

Now we just we've compromised on how to associate time. And a decision to say within two years is an appropriate amount of time to begin. We know that that's probably a good time to start, if not earlier. Plan is always good, but get to have a conversation over eight months and then be able to execute on the decision.

00;36;48;16 - 00;37;17;12

And then a couple of days, couple of three, four or five days to go back and forth on whether or not it was the right decision. And then the one thing that locks it in is it's been approved. Now you're moving with nine months left. What do you do to get to get ready at that point? So for me, I will tell you, this is where it got real for me, because we this is what people don't think about.

00;37;17;12 - 00;37;43;18

Like you said, 27 years I had announced with my mindset for 27 years, I knew what I was going to do. It was, yes, I'd change and change these days every two or three years. But the Marine Corps told me, Hey, this is what you're going to do that's not there anymore. That's gone with us next. So I went through every transition class, every transition program that was out there that was offered.

00;37;43;18 - 00;38;11;24

I mean, literally, Derek was going through I need to understand this process, what's going to happen with me through transition because I needed a playbook. So I need to tell me how to do this transition thing was next. But I will tell you, Chris, there's nothing like that out There is no one book to help you transition 20 some years to make that move, to make that that pivot.

00;38;11;26 - 00;38;49;09

There's guys, they help get you there, but there's nothing there. Yeah, there's there's nothing. The last, last number I had so approximately, give or take, thousands more like 47,000 organizations focused on military in the US, 47,000. I mean, it's it's a lot, but it's at the end of the day, what it also is, it can become overwhelming as to where do I find a thing that works for me and how do I how do I get connected to that organization or effort, as large or small as it may be, we all have different needs.

00;38;49;09 - 00;39;14;05

And it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to be able to key in on something. It is. So I will tell you that that sent me into a dark place for a person who's always been in control. I knew how to control things, to not know how to or where to go. And it's a very dark place for a minute.

00;39;14;08 - 00;39;42;17

And I don't think a lot of people realize that a person who's been in control know how to control things to go to this abyss. Yeah, I really had to up my my mid to my time when my mental provider during that time frame, it was key for me. I was lucky because I saw myself going to a dark place.

00;39;42;19 - 00;40;11;07

Not everyone has that that luxury, that ability to see themselves going down that dark path. So yeah, now that was a trying time for me. I can only imagine. And then going through it, you, you, so you, you were able to find at least a couple organizations and build relationships to be able to help navigate. You want to talk a little bit about how you found them and how you engage with them?

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;39;13

Yeah. So I would again, I would say I'm one of the lucky ones because me and I was able to attend different programs that I, I can list a ton here, but I was able to wade through ten different programs to help set me up for transition, to learn how to interview, to learn something. This was when I'm going to where to work.

00;40;39;15 - 00;41;10;27

People Don't realize. That's why it may seem simple to the average civilian, but to. So while I knew what I was wearing for 27 years to decide what I'm wearing to work next week, it could play on your mind. It could play on your mind. I It's funny you bring that up because when I first got out, along with my arrogance and pride and ego and all that stuff, thinking I was I was always good to go.

00;41;11;00 - 00;41;42;26

Not yet humbled that that came later. I would I would come in wearing what I wanted to. And that doesn't bode well if you if you think that you don't have to adapt in somebody else's world, reconsider your thought because you need to do some things that will allow you to even the basics as to coming showing up in the appearance and not knowing what first impressions really meant, because it was always something that you had on the collar or your lapels.

00;41;42;28 - 00;42;05;27

That was the first impression you were looked at as a rank, therefore not less of an individual until you establish relationship. While in the civilian world, first impression is times the thousand. As far as the bias, the judgments and all the people that determine things of how you look, which we all know you got, you got to be able to work through those things by understanding the basics.

00;42;05;27 - 00;42;31;04

And so that's I like how you brought that up. I know that's the I'm not the only thing and it is somewhat trivial at the point, but it is a key element that adds to other things. And so appearance is certainly something that should go on the list. Yeah, it to me is the snowball effect. Why is that little thing to me is that little parable you make someone get that snowball started, it can really go to a very bad place.

00;42;31;07 - 00;42;51;09

And I think people take take it for granted time. So and that's why I bring it up and that's why I stress it as I talk to people about transition. It may seem Minister, but men that can start a snowball. Indeed it does. And that's that's the thing. It's less about the clothes. It's more about the little things.

00;42;51;09 - 00;43;14;26

You add them together and then all of a sudden it starts to take a toll on how you're perceiving things and it's your self-talk begins and you used a great word, the abyss. You start to unravel things in your head that may or may not be true by others means of perspective. But it matters less because you're thinking about it all the time and you got to get out of that and that comes through the network.

00;43;14;29 - 00;43;37;02

And I would tell you, I was lucky to have a network that I can lean on because it was a lot of self doubt. And Derrick sitting in a you for me, being a person that had made it through so much to now have self doubt man, am I ready for this? Am I cut out for this? Am I going to make it in this?

00;43;37;04 - 00;44;06;02

Yeah, it was a dark place. Yeah. So on the flip side, you also have to think about your accomplishments and you key in on those things and how what translates can translate. And so immediately standing out for, for all of you listening, I don't, I didn't know all of these details about Derrick and we did that intentionally. So it's something just to kind of keep aware of that.

00;44;06;02 - 00;44;27;20

I'm hearing some of these things for the first time and I'm immediately connecting the dots on consistency from being the young Marine that, Derrick, you were going through what you did to get to where you are now. The consistency is your worth, the value and the mindset that you attribute to your success based off of others service to others.

00;44;27;20 - 00;44;56;28

That's the continuity of what you're bringing to the table. So when when do you start thinking about what you have to do specifically as you get closer to that date and how did you end up at certain So well, again, for me it was I don't think I was ever there. I still don't think I'm there. I, I think and I tell you, we got to continue to evolve.

00;44;57;00 - 00;45;21;29

I just felt more comfortable. The more transition things I did, the more networking I did. A for me, my network truly helped me see that, hey, you have what it takes to to be okay. You're going to be okay. So my network helped me to see that different networking events brought me to. I was at one where it was Sano was there and it was funny.

00;45;22;01 - 00;45;48;14

So starting with that, this networking event show you full circle in uniform, He and I had an encounter. We didn't realize this was going to lead to hair, so we were talking, met him. He looked familiar, didn't put one and one together. They looked at the old person and I remember say, Hey, sir, you know, we we met when you were in charge of the hospital.

00;45;48;14 - 00;46;20;09

He was running the the wounded hospital. And I went over there with the commandant doing the tour, and he took the time to talk to me then, as well as the memorial man that matters and makes sense. So I picked up on an but net needs is that we had the networking event. I had already been given a preliminary offer from another organization, but Paatelainen talks I recruiting team talk to recruiters, you know network and why a recruiter is no longer here.

00;46;20;11 - 00;46;52;11

She brought she like hey just come in for informational call came in for information the call was later interview which led to me being hired. So I'm here Cerner and I'm getting to learn everything in the Veterans Network. You know, veterans Pool Western is smaller than there is in Oracle, but I'm getting learn everything, but also knowing in the back of my mind, I now have to make another transition which the crap out of me from Cerner into Oracle to even bigger font.

00;46;52;13 - 00;47;12;26

So I'm like, Man, so mentally people don't understand what I went through during that time, transitioning from the Marine Corps to my first position at CERN of learning how it is to be in the civilian world at the same time. Now I have to make a whole nother transition in the midst of that. Hey, I'm back to see my mentor counselor even more.

00;47;13;03 - 00;47;38;01

She like there is going to be all right, but no, and I need to see it because again, I'm going to another abyss that I was afraid of. Yep. Then that I can appreciate, because that's when. Now enter. When Derrick and I met, I couldn't tell. So used the analogy of the duck on water. Right. That's how Derrick presented himself.

00;47;38;04 - 00;48;02;13

And it isn't. And until as he and I got to know each other better over the last several months, this was, I think is October that we had first met. Yeah. Then it became a clear and this is this is so jokes aside this is why it's important to understand the delicacy behind the fact, the reality that you don't know what other people are going through, whatever they're presenting themselves to be is not always the case.

00;48;02;15 - 00;48;21;19

And it means something here, because the fact is, somebody with so many accomplishments and it's not just about Derrick, as he'll be the first to tell you, but somebody that had so many accomplishments. Think about this, that the little things that we take for granted because we've acclimated, we've assimilated into a situation or environment in such a way.

00;48;21;19 - 00;48;40;28

We're now we're comfortable because we know the ropes, we know how to navigate, we get it, we can see it. Other people coming in there that present themselves to be as comfortable. Sometimes aren't. And so we have to understand these things in a way that we can come to their level, whether it's up, down side, it doesn't matter.

00;48;40;28 - 00;48;59;22

But we have to meet each other at the level we'll say the lowest common and on the lowest point that we can meet to be common with each other and have a connection and then go from there. If you if you choose to do it differently, there's a risk. We won't get into that now. But it's just an understanding, right?

00;48;59;22 - 00;49;23;26

There's there's things that people do and go through that don't always give you the real story. So. So now you're I mean, you're coming from 27 years into a situation where it's two components. I'm oversimplifying a two components. It's a life change and a career change. But then you add the life change with the family component to where there's four in your family.

00;49;23;26 - 00;49;48;12

Aside from you, you got Malika and your three daughters plus you. They're all going through their stuff too. And as a provider, somebody that's been in control or a command, if you will, of situations and environments, now you're having to navigate that also their transition. How did that go that, you know, people take for granted the transition that the family.

00;49;48;14 - 00;50;21;24

But is is a big thing it was where why they wanted settle down eventually they had to move again. They had to move again. Well, it was like, wow, we're not packing up. We're not going to be moving every three years. That was strange. Why They thought they wanted to settle down. It became apparent they don't like the packing part, but they like the the the newness that was next, the meeting, new people.

00;50;21;26 - 00;50;52;03

And they realized that is not going to be there. And it's funny, my oldest daughter actually came, told me she like that, think I made a mistake. My What do you mean she like me telling you to stay here? Actually took away friends for my youngest daughter. Might explain it to me. She like because I have friends that I met when I was in elementary school in South Carolina, that we are friends now and made a move to Germany everything.

00;50;52;03 - 00;51;14;24

And we're still friends. She's like, I think I robbed her of that stuff. Yeah, you just decrease the pool. You didn't. Robert Easily decrease the pool. That's all you did. Well, it was just funny to see a metal circle of the family. People don't think about that. It's a mental process for the family as well, because not only have I lived it, they've lived the life.

00;51;14;24 - 00;51;41;05

We were 20, what, 24 years? She, you know, my oldest are 24. She lived their life. So it was a big thing for her, I bet. And the strength, the strength that comes from that that we're not talking about. But what you're saying is the bond that's formed for your daughter, you can come to you and talk to you about, that for your family to come to you and talk about that, that strengthens it, That forges it now and solidifies it.

00;51;41;07 - 00;52;03;15

It could easily go sideways. But that's part of the complexity. It's the it's the constant thinking about how others are impacted by decisions we make for ourselves when that seems to have been the main motivator for change in the past in the first place. But it goes to show the resiliency and the growth of the children as well.

00;52;03;17 - 00;52;32;25

So yeah, and I imagine because you had mentioned it, you're still going through it. I imagine they are as well. Yeah. Yes, they are. I mean, because, you know, the youngest, my youngest daughter, she like dad. Well, I like maybe we should have moved. So it made the change for them as well. It did. You know, like going on simple things like being on base, like, hey, I want to make nice with her.

00;52;32;25 - 00;52;56;20

We're not going on base. It just is not there is not an everyday thing is not a part. You know why I'm still a marine, You know, once a marine, always marine is is still not there. I'm not in uniform, is a is a different mentality. So it's a change for everyone. Yep. Yep. And they have a good network set up.

00;52;56;23 - 00;53;21;20

They do. And I would tell you between their friends and, you know, Malika does a good job of making sure that they're connected. But also I will say one thing, one thing we did, Malika made sure each of the girls went to go see mental health as we transition. So she was very, you know, making sure that they had that aspect which has helped.

00;53;21;27 - 00;53;47;09

And I would employ everyone to do it not only for the service member as follows, but think about the children as well, because I've seen they made a difference. I'm glad you said that because that's what we can impact that all day too, because that's a delicate balance. Also, when people say, I don't need it, how do you force how do you force what you know is better for them on a and because if it's them not inviting it, then it's resistance and now it's not necessarily the same.

00;53;47;09 - 00;54;07;14

So that's that's a challenge in itself. So that I'm glad I'm glad to hear that you mentioned it not only you mentioned it, but that it's working. So yeah, I would tell you. So it goes back when you talk about early, how full circle high impact to my career I will never forget Sergeant Major, the Marine Corps. Carlton Kent.

00;54;07;14 - 00;54;34;16

At the time when I was working for the commoner, when when the sergeant major, the Marine Corps, the senior enlisted in the Marine Corps say, listen, make sure you take time to go get Mitchell help to free you. My and understand things that matter. Did not realize how leading Marines that hearing him say that was going to impact me and the mental health aspect.

00;54;34;23 - 00;54;57;17

So again like you said this whole thing full are going to see those little nuggets in it. I didn't see it until later on in my career how that was going to impact, how I live there, how I took care of my family. Yeah, that's a whole separate conversation. But you know, that hurts like this just brings the fact and we'll probably leave it here and then move on.

00;54;57;17 - 00;55;18;25

But when you when you are present, you pay more attention to things that are happening and there's always something happening. But when you are present, you're able to see things that you normally wouldn't have if you're paying attention. So your situational awareness is the key and on the things that matter at the moment. But you may not never know, you may not ever know.

00;55;18;25 - 00;55;42;00

You'll need later. So just absorb it. That's key because the recall is going to indicate something later. It's going to flip a switch for you to be realized. Oh, now I know how to apply it 100%. So. All right. So now you're it's there. And so let's let's fast let's fast forward because it gets good here, right? So Derrick and I are talking because the conversation that we had.

00;55;42;02 - 00;56;00;28

So one congratulations. Then you transition the beginning of your transition. I know you're still going through it and your family is still going through it, you know, and appreciate Milligan and the whole family going through all of that stuff with you. And it's a process and glad to have you in family. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me here.

Kirk shares his story of family, service, and sacrifice and how he honors those through his actions as reminders of his purpose. An avid outdoorsman from early on, Kirk's life choices brought him many memorable moments with his family that included seeing some amazing places while assigned to a few of the Army's most storied units. These experiences also included significant and tragic events that eventually led to his ultimate mission of creating an organization committed to serving the gold star community by bringing people together as a way of healing, remembering, and honoring the memory of the fallen.

We hope you enjoy this episode and please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

- https://www.goldstarpeak.org/ - [email protected] - [email protected]