Meaningful Work Matters

What if your personality isn't as fixed as you think?

In this Meaningful Work Matters two-part episode, psychological scientist and organizational behavior expert Reb Rebele joins Andrew to explore how understanding personality dynamics can help us navigate meaningful work more effectively.

Drawing from research at the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Melbourne, Reb challenges common assumptions about authenticity and explains how different aspects of personality can be intentionally adjusted to meet goals while maintaining sincerity.

• Everyone contains multitudes: We all have different sides to our personality that we can express in different situations
• Authenticity isn't about consistency: Being "true to yourself" means acknowledging and working with your various authentic expressions
• Resource management is crucial: Expressing different aspects of your personality at work requires understanding your energy needs and restoration patterns
• Strategic self-regulation: Learn how to be "the right version of yourself at the right time" through intentional personality regulation

Reb Rebele is a psychological scientist and advisor who teaches at the University of Melbourne and who’s research on personality psychology and organizational behavior has been published in leading academic journals and outlets such as The Atlantic and Harvard Business Review.

Part 2 of this conversation, coming out next week, Reb and Andrew explore the dynamics of collaboration and generosity in the workplace.

Want to move from theory to practice? Join our pilot PodClub session on February 26th, where thoughtful professionals like you will explore how to make meaningful work a reality. Learn more at eubd.ca/podclub.

In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, host Andrew Soren sits down with Dr. Adam Murry and Alvan Yuan from the University of Calgary to explore Indigenous perspectives on meaningful work within settler institutions, particularly in post-secondary settings across Western Canada.

• Indigenous employees derive meaning from work through three core elements:
  • A sense of belonging and contribution to a generational community
  • Holistic connectedness with both community and land
  • Culturally relevant job design that aligns with personal and community values
• Organizations often exploit Indigenous employees' community-driven motivations without providing proper support or recognition
• Meaningful work can serve as a potential avenue for reconciliation but is not a substitution for structural changes

• Dr. Adam Murry (Ukrainian, Irish, Apache) is an associate professor of psychology at the University of Calgary and director of the Indigenous Organizations and Communities Research Lab. With a PhD in industrial-organizational psychology, he focuses on applied mixed-method research contributing to Indigenous affairs in employment, education, health, and mental health.
• Alvan Yuan (Canadian, Taiwanese) is a PhD candidate in industrial-organizational psychology at the University of Calgary. Their research explores how individuals derive meaning and purpose from work, with a particular focus on understanding employment dynamics, sense-making, and learning through mixed-methods approaches.

• Indigenous Organizations and Communities Research Lab at the University of Calgary
• Tuck and Yang's "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor" (2012)

In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew explores the complex relationship between perfectionism, meaningful work, and personal fulfillment with Sonya Looney, a world champion mountain biker, podcast host, and positive psychology researcher.

Through her personal journey from achievement-focused athlete to purpose-driven leader, Sonya shares insights from her research on how perfectionists can find deeper satisfaction by focusing on social impact rather than just personal accomplishment.

Sonya also discusses her research on perfectionism, goal attainment, and mattering, and offers a fresh perspective on how high achievers can break free from the cycle of perpetual dissatisfaction.

The conversation examines how shifting focus from individual achievement to "other-ish" goals - those that benefit both self and others - can lead to more fulfilling work and genuine sense of accomplishment.

• Perfectionism operates in three dimensions: high personal standards, high standards for others, and meeting societal expectations
• The importance of shifting from pride-based to impact-based measures of accomplishment
• How "other-ish" goals can help perfectionists find meaning beyond personal achievement
• The value of immeasurable impacts in creating genuine satisfaction
• Practical strategies for balancing perfectionist tendencies with meaningful work

Sonya Looney is a world champion professional mountain biker with 20 years of racing experience across the globe. Beyond her athletic achievements, she hosts the Sonya Looney Show (soon to be rebranded as "Grow the Good" podcast) and recently completed her Master's in Applied Positive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, where she conducted innovative research on perfectionism and meaningful achievement.

• Give and Take by Adam Grant
• Transcend by Scott Barry Kaufman

• Website: sonyalooney.com
• Podcast: The Sonya Looney Show (soon to be "Grow the Good")

This is a special crossover episode where we're sharing a recent conversation between Andrew Soren and Sonya Looney from her podcast, The Sonya Looney Show.

In this episode, Andrew takes the guest seat as Sonya interviews him about the complex relationship between meaningful work and well-being, exploring why work that feels deeply important can sometimes lead to exploitation or burnout.

• Understanding eudaimonia and its relationship to meaningful work
• The "dark side" of meaningful work and how passion can lead to self-exploitation
• Six different ways people find meaning in their work, from utilitarian purposes to service
• The critical balance between meaning and workplace decency
• How mattering—feeling valued and adding value—influences job satisfaction and retention
• The role of organizations and leadership in fostering sustainable meaningful work

This episode was originally recorded for The Sonya Looney Show and is shared here as part of a special two-part crossover series.

Don't miss our next episode of Meaningful Work Matters where Sonya will join as our guest to discuss navigating perfectionism, redefining achievement, and using our goals to create positive impact.

Connect with The Sonya Looney Show

In part two of her conversation on Meaningful Work Matters, Dr. Anne Brafford explores Self-Determination Theory (SDT) and its profound implications for creating meaningful work environments.

[Click here to listen to Part One, where Anne discusses identity and meaning in the legal profession]

As both a former Big Law equity partner and organizational psychologist, Brafford offers unique insights into how understanding and supporting basic psychological needs can transform workplace cultures. Through research-backed explanations and practical examples, she shares how motivation develops on a continuum from amotivation to various forms of extrinsic motivation to intrinsic autonomous motivation

The conversation examines how leaders can move beyond command-and-control to create environments where people genuinely want to engage in their work. Brafford unpacks the three fundamental psychological needs - autonomy, competence, and relatedness - and explains their crucial role in fostering meaningful work experiences.

Drawing from both her academic research and real-world experience, she shares concrete strategies for "needs crafting", or, ways individuals can proactively shape their work experience to better satisfy their psychological needs.

• Self-Determination Theory provides a practical framework for understanding how psychological needs drive meaningful work
• Autonomous motivation is essential for experiencing meaningfulness - you won't find work meaningful without it
• Leaders can support psychological needs through perspective-taking, need-supportive communication, and helping frame work's significance
• Individuals can actively craft their work experience to better satisfy their psychological needs through intentional daily practices

Dr. Anne Brafford is a thought leader in workplace wellbeing and organizational psychology, with a particular focus on the legal profession. As owner of Aspire and co-founder of the Institute for Well-Being in Law, she bridges academic research with practical application to help organizations create more engaging and meaningful work environments.

Her book "Positive Professionals" provides science-based guidance for increasing engagement in law firms, and her forthcoming second edition will further explore how Self-Determination Theory can transform workplace cultures.

Her unique background as both a practicing lawyer and organizational psychologist allows her to translate complex psychological theories into actionable strategies for professional service organizations.

In this first installment of a two-part conversation, Andrew explores the complex intersection of identity, ethics, and meaningful work with Anne Brafford, a former Big Law partner turned well-being consultant and researcher.

Drawing from her two-decade career as an employment lawyer and subsequent academic work, Brafford shares her insights about how personal values, professional identity, and moral courage shape our experience of meaningful work.

Brafford illuminates how lawyers find meaning in their work beyond the traditional narrative of public service, highlighting the importance of moral exemplars and ethical decision-making in corporate law. She also shares encouraging examples of how some law firms are evolving to create more inclusive, purposeful work environments in response to recent social changes.

• Meaningful work influences how different individuals experience purpose in similar roles
• Moral exemplars in professional settings can help others navigate ethical challenges while maintaining meaningful engagement
• Local, everyday meaning can be as important as broader purpose in creating fulfilling work experiences

Dr. Anne Brafford (JD, MAPP, PhD) is a leading voice in lawyer well-being and workplace engagement. As the owner of Aspire, an education and consulting firm for the legal profession, and a founder of the Institute for Well-Being in Law, she brings both practical experience and academic rigor to her work.

Previously an equity partner at one of the nation's largest law firms, Anne now focuses on helping the legal profession build engaging workplaces where people and businesses can grow and succeed together. She holds a PhD in positive organizational psychology from Claremont Graduate University and a Master's in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.

Her research and consulting work centers on the intersection of inclusion, engagement, and well-being in professional settings.

• Book: Positive Professionals: Creating High-Performing, Profitable Firms Through the Science of Engagement by Anne Brafford
• Article: "Judges' Well-Being and the Importance of Meaningful Work" (Court Review)
• Article: "Five Ways to Foster Meaningful Work and Boost Lawyer Well-Being" (Texas Bar Journal)
• Lawyer Well-Being YouTube Channel
• Institute for Well-Being in Law
• The Good Work Project

Note: This is Part 1 of a two-part series. Tune in next week for Part 2, where Anne and Andrew dive deeper into Self-Determination Theory and its practical applications for creating meaningful work environments.

In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew sits down with Dr. Gitima Sharma to explore the intersection of purpose, well-being, and meaningful work through both Eastern and Western perspectives.

From her early years in India grappling with family mental health challenges to her current role as leading purpose researcher and coach, Sharma shares how Buddhist philosophy and academic research have shaped her understanding of purpose as something that rises above the pursuit of happiness towards creating positive change both within ourselves and society.

Through personal stories and research insights, she introduces her five-part model for cultivating purpose - explore, engage, reflect, articulate, and actualize - offering a flexible framework for aligning daily work with values and fulfillment. The conversation tackles important themes around cultural context, gender, work-life harmony, and how to maintain purpose while navigating challenging organizational systems.

• Purpose involves both individual growth and contribution to collective well-being - it's not just about personal satisfaction
• Having a sense of purpose is more protective against depression than life satisfaction
• The five phases of purpose development: explore, engage, reflect, articulate, and actualize
• Purpose can be found both within and outside of work - sometimes work enables purpose in other life domains
• The importance of community support and mentorship in developing and maintaining purpose, especially for underrepresented groups

Dr. Gitima Sharma is an Associate Professor of Counseling at California State University, Fresno and Founder of CoachInspire. With a Ph.D. in Counselor Education from Penn State, she has published over 30 research articles on purpose and well-being, while mentoring more than 100 students and clients. Her work integrates academic research, evidence-based practices, and humanistic principles to foster cultures of empathy, care, and positive impact.

• Download the Purpose Finder Worksheet here
• Access Sharma's academic publications via her Google Scholar profile
• Learn more about the principles that inform her work at buddhability.org
• Schedule a consultation through CoachInspire
• Connect with Sharma on LinkedIn

In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew sits down with Zach Mercurio to explore the fundamental human need to matter.

As both a researcher and practitioner in organizational psychology, Mercurio shares profound insights into how the experience of mattering shapes workplace behavior, engagement, and well-being. Through compelling stories and research-backed observations, he explains how mattering isn't just about feeling valued, but about the essential human instinct to be significant to others.

The conversation delves into how recent global events like the pandemic have amplified people's search for meaning, leading to phenomena like the Great Resignation and Quiet Quitting.

Mercurio offers practical leadership strategies for creating cultures where people feel noticed, affirmed, and needed, while also examining the potential dark sides of mattering when taken to extremes.

• Mattering is both a survival instinct and psychological need that requires systemic support through organizational culture, practices, and leadership behaviors
• Leaders need specific skills and practices to help others feel noticed, affirmed, and needed - intuition alone isn't enough
• The experience of anti-mattering often leads to either withdrawal behaviors or acts of desperation in the workplace
• Organizations need to move beyond relying on intuition and create concrete practices and systems that enable and ensure mattering behaviors

Dr. Zach Mercurio is a researcher, author, and thought leader in purposeful leadership and organizational psychology. As a Research and Teaching Fellow at Colorado State University's Center for Meaning and Purpose, his work focuses on how mattering and meaningful work drive human behavior and organizational success.

His research has been recognized by leading academic and professional organizations, and his forthcoming book "The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance" will be published by Harvard Business Review Press in 2025.

Beyond his academic work, Zach consults with global organizations to develop purposeful leaders and cultures where people experience significance. His unique position as both a researcher and practitioner allows him to bridge the gap between academic insights and practical application in organizational settings.

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Carrie Oelberger on Meaningful Work Matters, we explore the "myth of agency" in mission-driven work and discover how rethinking our approach to helping professions can lead to more sustainable and effective outcomes for both workers and those they serve.

Dr. Oelberger shares her research about frontline workers in caring professions, introducing a revolutionary approach called "human accompaniment" that challenges traditional assumptions about meaningful work in helping roles.

• The myth of agency in mission-driven work
• Three distinct approaches to frontline work
• Human accompaniment as a sustainable practice
• Rethinking hiring practices and qualifications
• Policy-level changes needed to support meaningful work
• Cross-cultural perspectives on workplace support

"The myth of agency is this false cultural idea that an individual can fully overcome structural and institutional barriers through strategic individual behaviors... this often leads to burnout, because people enter this work with these huge inflated understandings of how they're going to be able to make change." - Dr. Carrie Oelberger

1. Traditional approaches to frontline work often lead to burnout or apathy
2. Human accompaniment offers a sustainable alternative to "fixing" or "processing" approaches
3. Formal qualifications may sometimes hinder rather than help effective caring work
4. Lived experience and emotional intelligence are often more valuable than academic credentials
5. Systemic support is needed to create sustainable meaningful work

Dr. Carrie Oelberger is an Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs and a McKnight Land Grant Professor. Combining sociology and psychology in her approach to organizational studies, she brings both academic rigor and practical experience to her research on meaningful work. Her current work focuses on creating systemic changes to support sustainable meaningful work at societal, organizational, and individual levels.

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation on Meaningful Work Matters, Dr. Carrie Oelberger explores the complexities and potential dark sides of deeply meaningful work, particularly in mission-driven organizations. She introduces groundbreaking research on how different individuals experience meaning at work and challenges common assumptions about value alignment in nonprofit and social impact sectors.

Dr. Oelberger's insights reveal how meaningful work can both enhance and complicate our lives, especially regarding work-life boundaries and relationships.

• Values alignment and individual work preferences
• The relationship between meaningful work and job security
• Boundary inhibition in highly meaningful work
• Impact of meaningful work on personal relationships
• Intersectional challenges in mission-driven work
• Leadership considerations for managing meaningful work

"People who find their work deeply meaningful... that boundary around their work time is inhibited, not by their employers actually, but by themselves. They are really devoting themselves - physically, emotionally, mentally - to their workplaces, because they find so much meaning in it." - Dr. Carrie Oelberger

1. One size fits none when it comes to meaningful work - individual preferences and values vary significantly
2. Job security matters universally, regardless of stated preferences
3. The impact of meaningful work on personal life varies significantly across different identities and social positions
4. Meaningful work can turn into armour we wear that weighs heavily on personal relationships.
5. Organizations need to actively manage the potential dark sides of meaningful work

• Research on work-life boundaries by Mary Blair-Loy
• Vivek Murthy's workplace wellbeing framework
• David Blustein's research on decent work
• Scott Barry Kaufman's interpretation of Maslow's hierarchy

Dr. Carrie Oelberger is an Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota's Humphrey School of Public Affairs and a McKnight Land Grant Professor. Her research on meaningful work is deeply informed by her experience leading a grassroots NGO in Tanzania, where she developed the country's first rural community education resource center. Her work examines how organizations can balance meaningful work with sustainable workforce management, particularly in mission-driven contexts.