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This episode is about the struggle to explain, measure, and name the work testers and quality advocates actually do — especially when traditional labels and metrics fall short.
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
Some resources explaining the Shift-Left concept (Perplexity link)
00:00 - Intro
01:11 - Welcome & "woke" testing 😳
03:15 - QA, QE, Testing… whatever we call it, how do we measure if we're doing a good job?
03:44 - Vernon’s first experience with testing metrics: more = better?
05:00 - Defect Detection Rate enters the chat
06:41 - Rich reverse engineers quality skills needed in the AI era
10:54 - How do we know if we’re doing any of this well?
12:40 - Trigger warning: the topic of coverage is incoming 😅
16:54 - Bugs in production
21:09 - Automation metrics: flakiness, pass rates, and execution time
24:29 - Can you measure something that didn’t happen? (Prevention metrics)
27:43 - Do DORA metrics actually measure prevention?
32:03 - Here comes Jerry!
33:50 - The one metric the business cares about...
36:23 - QA vs QE: whose “quality” are we "assuring"?
39:25 - What's the story behind the numbers?
48:29 - Rich brings in Shift Left Testing
50:14 - Metrics that reach beyond engineering
53:14 - Rich gets a new perspective on QE and the business
56:50 - Who does this work? Testers? QEs? Or someone else?
By Vernon Richards and Richard BradshawThis episode is about the struggle to explain, measure, and name the work testers and quality advocates actually do — especially when traditional labels and metrics fall short.
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
Some resources explaining the Shift-Left concept (Perplexity link)
00:00 - Intro
01:11 - Welcome & "woke" testing 😳
03:15 - QA, QE, Testing… whatever we call it, how do we measure if we're doing a good job?
03:44 - Vernon’s first experience with testing metrics: more = better?
05:00 - Defect Detection Rate enters the chat
06:41 - Rich reverse engineers quality skills needed in the AI era
10:54 - How do we know if we’re doing any of this well?
12:40 - Trigger warning: the topic of coverage is incoming 😅
16:54 - Bugs in production
21:09 - Automation metrics: flakiness, pass rates, and execution time
24:29 - Can you measure something that didn’t happen? (Prevention metrics)
27:43 - Do DORA metrics actually measure prevention?
32:03 - Here comes Jerry!
33:50 - The one metric the business cares about...
36:23 - QA vs QE: whose “quality” are we "assuring"?
39:25 - What's the story behind the numbers?
48:29 - Rich brings in Shift Left Testing
50:14 - Metrics that reach beyond engineering
53:14 - Rich gets a new perspective on QE and the business
56:50 - Who does this work? Testers? QEs? Or someone else?

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