In this second half of our two-part conversation, we're joined again by the insightful Megan Sanders—zoo behavior consultant, educator, and long-time advocate for evidence-based training.

Building on Part One, where we explored Megan's career journey and the value of leaning into discomfort, this episode dives into her master's thesis research on how best to teach the teachers—animal trainers themselves. Megan shares how tools like Behavior Skills Training (BST) and PORTL can systematically shape trainer mechanics, improve procedural fidelity, and ultimately lead to less stressed, more successful animals.

Together, we explore: ✅ Why training trainers deserves the same precision and care as training animals ✅ How PORTL, peer feedback, and goats became unlikely research allies ✅ The challenges of measuring trainer skill and bridging it to real-world animal outcomes ✅ Why "the why" matters—giving trainers logical, observable reasons behind every step ✅ How research leaves us with more questions (and why that's a good thing)

Megan's story reminds us that the heart of effective animal care often starts with how we teach the humans holding the leash, bucket, or target stick. By bringing clarity, systematic teaching, and curiosity to the process, Megan is helping shape a future where trainers feel more confident, animals thrive, and the science of behavior continues to grow.

Links

https://www.behaviorworks.org/

https://absc.ku.edu/

https://behaviorexplorer.com/