We recorded this podcast on March 20, 2025. Dominique and I were just back from the Clicker Expo so of course that’s what we wanted to talk about. We begin with highlights from the Expo including the Saturday evening keynote presentation given by Jade Fountain. Jade has been involved with Apopo the organization that trains the giant poached rats that are used for land mine detection in Africa and Southeast Asia. Both Dominique and I were enchanted, impressed, fascinated by the rats, their training, and the work they are doing.

In addition to the many other Expo highlights, I talk about my presentation on the Participating Horse. I describe the difference between passive and active participation, both in terms of the procedures used and the outcomes that emerge.

This is a continuation of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February.

Last week we were talking about the new on-line mini courses I am creating out of the original DVD Lesson series. I have recognized for a long time that people no longer have DVD players, so I am transferring the DVDs to the same platform that hosts my on-line clinics. But I’m not just transferring the original lessons, I am providing updates and additional material.

This work is very simple and very complex both at the same time. Most people, even if they are very experienced horse people, can’t jump in at the deep end. To get to the complexity that is really simple and the simplicity that is very complex, you have to start in the kiddie pool. And that’s where the DVDs begin. But it’s the nature of this work that at the same time we’re in kindergarten we’re also in a graduate level seminar.

Now I know there will be people listening to this who are thinking: “I just want to ride my horse. I’m not interested in all this mind-bendy stuff. Just tell me how to teach my horse to stand still so I can get on.”

The problem is you may just want to ride, but if you don’t have a simple, straightforward horse, you may need do dig deeper into this work. It’s all there in the books, the DVD lessons, the on-line courses, the blog, this podcast. I share both basic how-to lessons plus the details that the horses have shown us that make a difference to them.

Converting and up-dating the DVDs is a huge project. It’s also been a fun project. Revisiting these lessons has been filled with surprises. So, of course, I want to talk about them and that’s what Dominique and I did on a very cold February day.

Our conversation covers a wide range of topics: including loopy training, the T’ai chi wall - what that means and how to apply it, shaping on a point of contact, head lowering, and strategies for dealing with pushy horses.

Talking of Many Things Part 1: Loopy Training, The T’ai Chi Wall, Head Lowering and Pushy Horses

This is a continuation of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February. My original intent when we got together was to talk about the new version of the DVD lessons, but then I got sidetracked because I really wanted to share the videos that Muna Clough sent me as part of the on-line clinics. That was the subject of our previous two episodes. I even included a discussion from our monthly on-line coaching session that included contributions from Muna, Anita Schnee and Lucy Butler. Both Anita and Lucy have been frequent guests on the podcast.

So now finally in this week’s episode we’re going to talk about the DVD lessons. I have recognized for a long time that people no longer have DVD players, so I am transferring the DVDs to the same platform that hosts my on-line clinics. But I’m not just transferring the original lessons, I am providing updates and additional material.

For me it’s been a fun project. In the first four lessons I get to watch a very young Robin illustrating key elements in the foundation lessons. Twenty-five years later we are still using those elements and enjoying the many benefits they create.

In this episode we are going to focus primarily on Lesson 2: Ground Manners. This lesson provides the connections, the bridge between traditional pressure and release of pressure training and what we want clicker training to be.

Whether it is a leash attached to a dog collar or a lead attached to a halter, the communication is tactile. It is pressure and release of pressure. For me it has never been a choice between using these tools or never touching them. It has always been about the teaching process and the way we frame our training. One teaching process leads to command-based, do-it-or-else training. The other process leads to cue-based conversations. I want the conversation.

So Lesson #2 seeks to understand the difference. The focus is on shaping on a point of contact. We’ll be talking about loopy training, head lowering, the t’ai chi wall and what to do when you are working with a horse who falls over his inside shoulder and crowds into you. That’s something I know a lot of people struggle with when they try to lead their horses so I’m sure this topic will be of interest.

This is Part 2 of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February.

I’ve been sharing a remarkable series of videos from one of my on-line clients, Muna Clough. In the previous episode I described the videos Muna sent me and the remarkable changes that occurred over a six day period. I shared Muna’s videos with my monthly coaching session group. The videos sparked a fascinating discussion about the power of tiny movements. We’re joined by Muna Clough, Anita Schnee, and Lucy Butler. Anita is a Feldenkrais Practitioner. Lucy manages the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. Both have been frequent guests on this podcast.

This is an unusual podcast. I’m going to be sharing a video with you. Now I know it’s odd to share a video on an audio format but this is no ordinary video. We’re going to be looking at a remarkable change in a horse. The horse is owned by one of the participants in my on-line clinics, Muna Clough.

I won’t spoil the ending of the story by telling you much more about her horse. What I will say is this episode includes a detailed description of the runway lesson. I use the runway lesson to teach horses to step onto mats so it is part of the core foundation lessons.

The runway lesson is a fascinating lesson. A beginner can succeed with it. And later when that same handler has become more finessed in her handling skills, she can use the runway lesson to transform a horse’s balance. It is one of my favorite patterned exercises, so I’m delighted we’re turning the spotlight on it in this episode.

This is part three of a conversation Dominique and I had at the end of January 2025.

Part 1 was a tribute to Karen Pryor.

Part 2 was a celebration of Robin’s 30th birthday. I don’t know his exact birthday so I am celebrating all year long. For me, 30 seems like such an important milestone for a horse to reach. It’s like a person reaching their 90th birthday - it’s quite an accomplishment, especially if they are still in good health.

Robin has played an important role in the development of equine clicker training. In the previous episode I shared some of the many ways in which he showed us what is possible.

Thirty years is a long time. When your horses reach their senior years that raises the question of what comes next. That’s what we’re going to talk about in this episode. Even if you are the one in your twenties and you’ve just gotten a young horse to start out with, this is something to think about. Horses live a long time. The full arc of their years not only takes us through many changes in our own lives, they help to shape those changes.

Last week we celebrated the life of Karen Pryor. My horses have lived a much better life because of Karen's work. That includes my young horse, Robin. I suppose I should stop referring to him as my young horse because this year he has reached an important milestone. Robin is thirty years old. That's like a person reaching their 90th birthday. It’s an achievement that needs to be celebrated which is what I am doing in this episode.

I don’t know Robin’s actual birthday so I will be celebrating his 30th Birthday all year long. Robin has had an enormous impact on equine clicker training. He showed us what is possible. So in this episode I am going to share Robin stories. We’ll be talking about trick training, the “pose”, default behaviors and of course, balance, balance and more balance.

Episode 312 Remembering Karen Pryor

At the end of January 2025 Dominique and I got together for an afternoon's conversation. This is part 1 of that conversation.

I primarily wanted to talk about Karen Pryor. Karen died on January 5 2025. This episode celebrates her life.

This is Part 3 of our conversation with Lucy Butler. With her fiancee Lucy founded the River Haven Sanctuary in Rhode Island. The sanctuary is home to about fifty animals - pigs, geese, ducks, chickens, goats, donkeys, and three horses. The Sanctuary gives forever homes to animals that were in crisis. Lucy and her fiancee Jeff have plans for developing the sanctuary into an educational center,.

In Part 1 Lucy introduced us to the sanctuaries three horses, Pearl, River, and Nieve. Initially, clicker training was used to help the horses settle and to fill in the huge gaps in their basic education. It’s been a healing process for them physically as well as emotionally.

In Part 2 we talked about the effect that lateral work is having on the horses. We began with Nieve and the remarkable changes lateral work is making in her emotional stability. Nieve is confirming that in horses physical balance is very much related to emotional well-being.

In Part 3 we continue on with the changes that Lucy is seeing in River, a standardbred who was raced for five years and was then a harness horse for the Amish, and in Pearl, a mini who came to River Haven Sanctuary via another horse rescue.

These “throw-away” horses show us how important training is to their overall well-being. Lucy is learning how to weave strong safety nets under her three very different horses.

This is Part 2 of our conversation with Lucy Butler. With her fiancé Lucy founded the River Haven Sanctuary in Rhode Island. The sanctuary is home to about fifty animals, pigs, geese, ducks, chickens, goats, donkeys, and three horses. The Sanctuary gives forever homes to animals that were in crisis. Lucy and her fiancé Jeff have plans for developing the sanctuary into an educational center,.

In Part 1 Lucy introduced us to the sanctuaries three horses, Pearl, River, and Nieve. Initially, clicker training was used to help the horses settle and to fill in the huge gaps in their basic education. It’s been a healing process for them physically as well as emotionally.

In Part 2 we talk about the effect that lateral work is having on the horses. We begin with Nieve and the remarkable effect that teaching her lateral work is having for her emotionally. Nieve is confirming that in horses physical balance is very much related to emotional well-being. We talk about constructional design and what shaping on a point of contact means for the horses.