For the episode we’re heading to the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo for a conversation with Rick Hester, Amy Schilz and Lucy Butler.

Rick is the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. He oversees all the zoo's behavioral programming. His work includes the zoo's animal training for husbandry, medical, and public show behaviors, enrichment, developing programs to improve problem behavior situations, the zoo's formal animal welfare assessments, and exhibit design for behavior goals.

We’re also joined by Amy Schilz who has the dream job of working with the Cheyanne Mountain zoo’s giraffe.

Amy is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for Cheyenne Mountain Zoo's International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe, where she runs giraffe workshops and conferences, both stateside and internationally.

Both Rick and Amy also partner with Dr. Susan Friedman and her Behavior Works consulting team so you’ll hear a lot of references to Susan throughout this conversation.

In addition to Rick and Amy, I invited Lucy Butler to join us. Lucy and her husband run the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. I knew she would have a lot of questions for Rick and Amy. When you take in animals who are the victims of abuse, there’s a lot to be learned from the work that goes on in zoos to reduce the stress of handling and also to improve the overall quality of life for the animals under their care.

In this episode Rick and Amy talk about fine-tuning what a “no response” looks like and what handlers should do when they see the first signs of an animal saying “no”. As they fine tuned their understanding of “no” responses, they were actually describing an operationalized behavior that is “yes”. What does it look like for an animal to say “yes”

Assent is a behavior the learner performs and continues to perform that lets us know we can continue. When they stop performing that behavior, assent is withdrawn, so we have to withdraw. This is the process that the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo trainers follow. Relief is readily available to the animal learners. Across species in a system where relief is abundantly available and there are strong reinforcers at a high rate for opting in, most animals opt in more and opt out less.

After Rick and Amy describe the training that they are doing at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, we switch the focus to horse training. Letting horses opt out runs counter to traditional horse training methods. But certainly we know that horses also opt in more when they have the option of saying “no”.

This episode also includes an announcement for my new book: “Never Get A Wizard Mad At You”: Book One in the Upstairs Armadillo Series.

This is part 3 of a conversation with Michaela Hempen and Lucy Butler about their visit in August to attend Anja Beran’s 12th International Workshop held at her stable in Bavaria.

Both Michaela and Lucy have been guests on the podcast many times before. Michaela is well known for the research project she did on the operant control of cribbing. With her own horses she has been using my work to help make Anja’s beautiful riding more accessible. This year Michaela helped interpret Anja’s work for a group of clicker trainers who attended the workshop. Lucy was one of the people in that group.

In part 1 Lucy shared her first impressions of Anja’s work. She described the facility and some of the horses she watched. Many of these horses are at the foundation because Anja was their last chance. They were on their way to slaughter. These were young horses who had been crippled by inappropriate training. Anja’s work not only shows that good riding doesn’t have to harm horses. It can heal them.

In Part 2 Michaela and Lucy help make the connections between what I teach and Anja’s training. One of the major links is the ever present focus on balance.

Now in Part 3 we look in more detail at lateral movements and ways of exploring them that can help you understand how to use them in training to help your horse maintain healthy movement.

This is part 2 of a conversation with Michaela Hempen and Lucy Butler about their visit in August to attend Anja Beran’s 12th International Workshop held at her stable in Bavaria.

Both Michaela and Lucy have been guests on the podcast many times before. Michaela is well known for the research project she did on the operant control of cribbing. With her own horses she has been using my work to help make Anja’s beautiful riding more accessible. This year Michaela helped interpret Anja’s work for a group of clicker trainers who attended the workshop. Lucy was one of the people in that group.

In part 1 Lucy shared her first impressions of Anja’s work. She described the facility and some of the horses she watched. Many of these horses are at the foundation because Anja was their last chance. They were on their way to slaughter. These were young horses who had been crippled by inappropriate training. Anja’s work not only shows that good riding doesn’t have to harm horses. It can heal them.

In this episode Michaela and Lucy help make the connections between what I teach and Anja’s training. One of the major links is the ever present focus on balance.

This is part 1 of a conversation with Michaela Hempen and Lucy Butler about their visit in August to attend Anja Beran’s 12th International Workshop held at her stable in Bavaria.

Both Michaela and Lucy have been guests on the podcast many times before. Michaela is well known for the research project she did on the operant control of cribbing. With her own horses she has been using my work to help make Anja’s beautiful riding more accessible. This year Michaela helped interpret Anja’s work for a group of clicker trainers who attended the workshop. Lucy was one of the people in that group.

I asked Lucy about her first impressions of Anja’s work. She described the facility and some of the horses she watched. Many of these horses are with Anja because she was their last chance. They were on their way to slaughter. These were young horses who had been crippled by inappropriate training. Anja’s work not only shows that good riding doesn’t have to harm horses. It can heal them.

Equiosity Episode 342: Horses for Future Jane Myers and The Equicentral System Pt 2

This is part 2 of a conversation Jane Myers on the equicentral system and pasture management. This episode comes from the archives of my Horses For Future podcast that I produced from 2019 to 2021. The podcast explored what horse people can do to help in the climate change crisis.


Think of the green plants in your horse's pasture as tiny solar panels. The 
plants create sugars which they send down into their roots. But they 
aren't just nourishing themselves. The sugars are transferred to fungi
and bacteria in exchange for minerals the plants need.

When a pasture is overgrazed, plants can't develop deep root structures. 
They don't have enough "solar panels" left to do the work. The fungi and
bacteria die off, and the soil deteriorates.

We can turn this around with better pasture management. It's a win-win 
situation. Our horses become healthier as we sequester more carbon in 
our pastures.

The Horses for Future podcast began with an exploration of pasture management practices and then looked at other ways in which horse people can make a difference for the health of the planet.

So for this weeks equiosity podcast I’m sharing a podcast from the Horses for Future archives. It is an interview with Jane Myers about the Equicentral System. Pastures which are overgrazed or have turned to mud lots can be restored. Jane describes how the equicentral system works to restore overgrazed, damaged pastures. Healthy pastures contribute to healthy horses and a healthier planet.

Enjoy!

We’ve just finished a three part conversation with Dr Susan Schneider that was centered around the climate change crisis. In that conversation I referenced my Horses For Future podcast. This is a podcast that I produced from 2019 to 2021. It explored what horse people can do to help in the climate change crisis.

The premise is a simple one. Horse people can make a difference in the climate change crisis. We can sequester carbon!

Think of the green plants in your horse's pasture as tiny solar panels. The 
plants create sugars which they send down into their roots. But they 
aren't just nourishing themselves. The sugars are transferred to fungi
and bacteria in exchange for minerals the plants need.

When a pasture is overgrazed, plants can't develop deep root structures. 
They don't have enough "solar panels" left to do the work. The fungi and
bacteria die off, and the soil deteriorates.

We can turn this around with better pasture management. It's a win-win 
situation. Our horses become healthier as we sequester more carbon in 
our pastures.

The Horses for Future podcast began with an exploration of pasture management practices and then looked at other ways in which horse people can make a difference for the health of the planet.

So for this weeks equiosity podcast I’m sharing a podcast from the Horses for Future archives. It is an interview with Jane Myers about the Equicentral System. Pastures which are overgrazed or have turned to mud lots can be restored. Jane describes how the equicentral system works to restore overgrazed, damaged pastures. Healthy pastures contribute to healthy horses and a healthier planet.

This is Part 3 of a three part conversation with Dr. Susan Schneider. Dr.Schneider is the author of “The Science of Consequences”. For the past eight years Dr, Schneider has made climate change her primary focus.

Dr. Schneider is on the faculty at Western Michigan University and serves on its Climate Change Working Group. She also serves on the Tools of Change Landmark Peer Review Panel for Climate Change, and on the board of the nonprofit Green Driving America.

Now if you are wondering why a podcast about all things equine is talking about climate change, here’s the connection. Horses are grazing animals. That means that collectively horse people own, manage, make decisions about a huge amount of land. What we are learning is healthy pastures help to contribute to healthy horses.

Healthy pastures also contribute to biodiversity. Healthy pastures come from healthy soils. Improved soil quality absorbs more water which helps to reduce flooding. Healthy soils also sequesters carbon.

So horse people can help in the climate change crisis through the way we manage our land. It’s one of those win-win-win situations. Healthier pastures are good for our horses which is good for us and it’s also good for the planet.

I wanted to explore three major topics with Dr. Schneider. The first is where are we now in terms of climate change? Why should we care? The second is what can we do to make a difference. And the third area is how can we talk to others without shutting them down and driving them away? There are lessons to be learned here not just about how do we talk about climate change, but how do we talk about positive reinforcement training when we’re surrounded by command-based trainers.

In the previous episode we looked at alternatives that don’t force people to make the kind of life style choices that mean going without. For example, we don’t have to give up driving. We can drive an electric vehicle instead of a fossil fuel car. Choosing the alternative to a gas powered engine means we still get to drive.

In this episode we consider actions which horse people in particular are in a great position to take as we consider changes to the decisions we make about the way we manage our pastures. Even if you board and the only land you manage is the lawn around your house, you can take actions that collectively make a difference.

This is Part 2 of a three part conversation with Dr. Susan Schneider. Dr.Schneider is the author of “The Science of Consequences”. For the past eight years Susan has made climate change her primary focus.

Her work on climate change and sustainability includes outreach, community projects, organizing, academic and nonacademic publications, and extensive public speaking.  As Senior Scientist for the sustainability nonprofit Root Solutions, Dr Schneider helped design projects and coauthored two chapters in its 2022 guidebook, Making Shift Happen: Designing for Successful Environmental Behavior Change.  

Recent outreach includes a podcast for the Union of Concerned Scientists.  Schneider’s award-winning book for the public, The Science of Consequences, covers basic learning principles, their role in nature-nurture relations, and their broad range of applications, including sustainability. 

Schneider is on the faculty at Western Michigan University and serves on its Climate Change Working Group. She also serves on the Tools of Change Landmark Peer Review Panel for Climate Change, and on the board of the nonprofit Green Driving America.

Now if you are wondering why a podcast about all things equine is talking about climate change, here’s the connection. Horses are grazing animals. That means that collectively horse people own, manage, make decisions about a huge amount of land. What we are learning is healthy pastures help to contribute to healthy horses.

Healthy pastures also contribute to biodiversity. Healthy pastures come from healthy soils. Improved soil quality absorbs more water which helps to reduce flooding. Healthy soils also sequesters carbon.

So horse people can help in the climate change crisis through the way we manage our land. It’s one of those win-win-win situations. Healthier pastures are good for our horses which is good for us and it’s also good for the planet.

I wanted to explore three major topics with Dr. Schneider. The first is where are we now in terms of climate change? Why should we care? The second is what can we do to make a difference. And the third area is how can we talk to others without shutting them down and driving them away? There are lessons to be learned here not just about how do we talk about climate change, but how do we talk about positive reinforcement training when we’re surrounded

In this three part series we’re joined by Dr. Susan Schneider is a behavior analyst. She is the author of “The Science of Consequences” which many of you may have read. Normally when we have behavior analysts as guests we talk about academic subjects such as schedules of reinforcement.

In this case I wanted to talk to Susan about what horse people can do to help mitigate the climate change crisis.

For the past eight years Susan has made climate change her primary focus.

Her work on climate change and sustainability includes outreach, community projects, organizing, academic and nonacademic publications, and extensive public speaking.  As Senior Scientist for the sustainability nonprofit Root Solutions, Dr Schneider helped design projects and coauthored two chapters in its 2022 guidebook, Making Shift Happen: Designing for Successful Environmental Behavior Change.  

Recent outreach includes a podcast for the Union of Concerned Scientists.  Schneider’s award-winning book for the public, The Science of Consequences, covers basic learning principles, their role in nature-nurture relations, and their broad range of applications, including sustainability. 

Schneider is on the faculty at Western Michigan University and serves on its Climate Change Working Group. She also serves on the Tools of Change Landmark Peer Review Panel for Climate Change, and on the board of the nonprofit Green Driving America.

Now if you are wondering why a podcast about all things equine is talking about climate change, here’s the connection. Horses are grazing animals. That means that collectively horse people own, manage, make decisions about a huge amount of land. What we are learning is healthy pastures help to contribute to healthy horses.

Healthy pastures also contribute to biodiversity. Healthy pastures come from healthy soils. Improved soil quality absorbs more water which helps to reduce flooding. Healthy soils also sequesters carbon.

So horse people can help in the climate change crisis through the way we manage our land. It’s one of those win-win-win situations. Healthier pastures are good for our horses which is good for us and it’s also good for the planet.

I wanted to explore three major topics with Dr. Schneider. The first is where are we now in terms of climate change? Why should we care? The second is what can we do to make a difference. And the third area is how can we talk to others without shutting them down and driving them away? There are lessons to be learned here not just about how do we talk about climate change, but how do we talk about positive reinforcement training when we’re surrounded by command-based trainers.

In part 1 I set the stage for this conversation and then Dr. Schneider took us to some hopeful solutions that are available to all of us.

Our guest this week is Anita Schnee. Anita is a Feldenkrais™ practitioner who has joined us many times on this podcast. During the recent conversation we recorded with Dr Brennan Armshaw and Dr Claire St Peter (episodes 324 and 325), I kept thinking - I wish we had invited Anita.

Well, it turns out Anita was listening. Anita offers Awareness Through Movement classes twice a month via zoom. After listening to the podcast I did with Dr, Armshaw, the introduction to Anita’s next on-line ATM lesson was built around his work. That conversation generated all kinds of fun connections for Anita.

In last week’s episode much of the focus was on what happens in the body when there’s an injury. Dr. Armshaw uses electromyography biofeedback to help people recover from injury. The Feldenkrais™ work also provides a pathway towards recovery. In this episode we’re going to switch the focus to look at why starting small is so effective. In her introduction to the Feldenkrais™ work from last week’s episode Anita made the point that this work is not exercise. It is not physical therapy. It is not yoga or pilates. So what is it?

What I would say is the Feldnekrais™ work comes first. Through the awareness lessons you learn how to move well so when you engage in these other activities you are better able to perform well. That includes the work we do with our horses. Starting small is effective for us, and it is certainly effective with our horses. The “why” behind this is what we’re going to be talking about.