Messy Middlescence

The Cabernet Club, released in January 2025, is a novel that follows Debbie Gordon as she seeks big changes and fulfillment in the second half of her life. The book is a light, funny and captivating read that still manages to highlight and explore many of the more serious aspects of the middlescence journey. It is co-authored by the late Rona S. Zable and her daughter, Margie Zable Fisher.

In today’s episode we speak with Margie Zable Fisher about her new book, The Cabernet Club, her mother, writing fiction and Margie’s own middlescence journey. There are so many topics we wanted to delve into with Margie who left her long-time career in PR to become a full-time writer after age 50. Margie (as was her mother) is both a huge proponent, as well as a prime example, of the importance of using your middle age years to create the life you want. Margie introduces the idea of “empowered aging” as she discusses the challenges and successful steps she embarked on when she turned 50.

We hope you find our conversation with Margie as delightful and fascinating as we did.

Some of the many topics we discuss include:

• “The Margie Project” which was a year of intentional experiences when she turned 50 and how it ultimately left her feeling better and more empowered;
• The importance of friendship – especially as we age – along with the idea that being a friend is a skill that we can learn and improve;
• Margie’s loss of her mother, the promise she made to her, and how that changed her life;
• How and why she shifted careers from PR to freelance writing;
• The steps Margie took to learn how to write fiction
• The belief that it is possible to have a happy retirement on a budget;
• The comparisons between Rona Grable and Debbie Gordon, the protagonist of The Cabernet Club.
• The plans for the next two books which will continue with The Cabernet Club characters.

One of the most difficult aspects of middle age is the continual reminder and realization of how fragile life is. This is not to say that terrible things do not happen to young people – they definitely do. However, for many of us – by the time we reach our 40’s and 50’s - we have either experienced or repeatedly witnessed lives that drastically change in an instant. It is almost as if a blindfold is removed and what we once thought of as “unthinkable” is more common than we believed. Tragic events, accidents, and diagnoses occur suddenly and then life as we know it (or as people we care about know it), is abruptly and completely shattered. The inevitable truth that life is both tremendously fragile and fleeting becomes something we understand and feel more deeply as we age.

As we continue our series this season on grief and loss, our guest today is Colleen Albright, who graciously and courageously shares her story of unthinkable losses. She shares her story in hopes that it will help others.

Colleen's life was a tapestry of joy and challenges, raising her children and thriving in a career she loves. On December 1st 2022, a seemingly ordinary day in Coleen’s life, everything changed for her. And then it changed again. And again. In less than a year, Colleen experienced the deaths of her teenage son, her mother, her father and underwent a divorce.

She experienced a “before and after” that “obliterated” the person she was. Her story is not an easy one to hear but she tells it with a poise and grace that astounded us. Colleen offers many insights into navigating midlife's unpredictable challenges with courage and hope including:

• There is no blueprint for grief. It is not linear. It is messy. And everyone grieves in different ways.
• Grief is exhausting; grief is work.
• For those who lose loved ones, you never get over it and it is important to embrace and accept that. There is no going back to who you were. There is no “normal” anymore.
• Grief support groups are similar to finding a therapist – you don’t always click and it might take some effort to find one that you connect with and will help you.
• The people that helped Colleen the most were not the ones she would have expected before this happened. Many people - no matter how much they care - just do not know what to do to support someone deeply grieving.
• The feeling of time changes in grief. It progresses but feels different.
• Let your grieving person talk. It is a gift for them to tell stories, memories and talk about their loved one.
• There is no need to say anything to a grieving person. Do not say that it will be ok; do not say they need to stop crying or take a deep breath. Allow each person to grieve in the way they need to; allow them to be and do whatever they need.
• The “fog” of grief is real and can last a long time.

There are numerous definitions of the word “seeker”. The one that resonated with us most describes a seeker as “…characterized by a persistent and often intense curiosity, a desire to understand and explore and a willingness to question and learn”.

In today’s episode we interview our sister-in-law, Dr. Alexa Dare, Ph.D (Alex is married to our brother, Patrick, the 6th of the 7 siblings in the Conti family). In the early minutes of our interview, Alex describes herself as a seeker and, as the interview unfolds, we learn exactly why. In describing her childhood, her professional life, her love of travel and the outdoors we see the true embodiment of that definition. And while for some people these qualities might diminish with age, as Alex approaches her 50th birthday, her desire to learn new things, to strive for a deeper understanding of the world and to embrace new challenges is as strong as ever. But Alex’s middlescence journey is not without its own uncertainties and questioning struggles.

We hope you will join us as we discuss these challenges with Alex along with the following:

• • Her childhood in Canada and the many places she has lived and traveled since then;
  • Her “need” for time outdoors and her love of nature;
  • The appeal of “doing nothing” and the difficulties of trying to plan such a thing;
  • The plans for her next two big adventures;
  • Her middlescence professional struggles;
  • The generational differences around the definition of and questions about middle age;
  • How to measure and define happiness and success;
  • Her superpower of “adaptability”;
  • What she is most proud of;
  • Reframing the idea of retirement around work and time commitments; “working less and with more flexibility"

The hormonal changes men and women undergo in middle age is one of the defining aspects of middlescence. Similar to what teenagers/adolescents undergo entering puberty, the hormonal changes of (peri)menopause, particularly for women, are dramatic, significant and unique to each person. Western culture and medicine have until quite recently, largely ignored these changes and the symptoms that go along with (peri)menopause and andropause. 

In regard to (peri)menopause, it has been reported that most doctors receive only 1-2 hours total in their training. And while menopause is a natural process, there are at least 24 possible symptoms that can range in intensity from mere nuisance to life-altering. It is an extremely important quality of life issue for middle-aged women and those that love them. For those of us currently in mid-life, we are fortunate to live in a time when research, knowledge and attitudes about (peri)menopause are changing.

We are absolutely thrilled to discuss all this with one of the trailblazers leading the charge for this change. Carin Luna-Ostaseski is on a mission to transform how women experience (peri)menopause. She is the creator of “Hot or Just Me,” a website that offers a comprehensive platform integrating informational resources, products and compassionate community support around (peri)menopause. Carin’s own experiences prompted the creation of her website. Carin’s approach to managing (peri)menopause symptoms is rooted in self-care: women need to give themselves the time and energy to acknowledge and treat their symptoms.

We hope this episode provides invaluable advice and support to women and their loved ones. Our show notes are full of helpful links and additional information.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• • Carin’s incredible story of being a trailblazer in the truest sense; the many lives she has led up to this point and her willingness to embrace change.
  • The importance of finding a good doctor along with tips on how to do so.
  • Being aware of our mental and emotional state during (peri)menopause and the need to “clean up our messes” and find either traditional or non-traditional support.
  • The lack of awareness in the workplace of the effect of (peri)menopause symptoms on women and ways to change this.
  • The importance of teaching young people a more complete picture of sex hormones and how they change throughout life instead of concentrating on one phase.
  • The need for more information and awareness of andropause and the ways this can be a source of connection for partners during this time of life.
  • The amazing products available to help treat and manage symptoms.
  • The importance of self-care.
  • The joy of having something that is just “yours”.

In today’s episode, Tara and Tina take time to consider and contemplate the vast amount of both practical information and words of wisdom from the two previous episodes on grief and loss. We hope you were able to listen to our last 2 episodes: “Learning and Living Through Grief” with Brett Danko and “When Their World Stops From Grief” with Anne-Marie Lockmyer. We recommend that you listen to them before listening to this one.

Today’s episode highlights what we learned and experienced through these interviews with Brett and Anne-Marie. We hope our discussion helps bring more clarity and positive energy to this emotional and difficult - but unavoidable and important topic. We encourage you to listen and hope you will contact us with any feedback and the impact these episodes had on you and your middlescence journey.

We are so inspired by and grateful for the many people willing to share their middlescence journey with us. We are humbled and amazed at their courage and willingness to open up and share their personal experiences, dreams and fears.

As we continue with this season’s theme of grief – we are especially grateful to our next guest. Brett Danko lost his beloved wife, Dawn, last March. She was 55 and had been fighting cancer for several years. Brett’s middlescence journey has been filled with what for many of us is our absolute worst nightmare.

Brett’s ability to be “an open book” and thoughtfully and stoically detail his last few years is a testament to his strength of character along with his innate abilities as an amazing teacher. 

Take a deep breath, then listen and learn as we discuss Brett’s experience of grief and loss that touches upon a wide range of topics including:

• • The importance of not holding emotions back and having those conversations where you tell the people you love how you feel;
  • The impact and difficulties respective to a quick death versus a long and painful illness;
  • The necessity of treating the people you love with kindness every day;
  • How it is never too late to create an emotional link with people;
  • Remembering that success is ultimately having people that love and care about you;
  • Why middlescence is the time to be a little selfish and to do the things you want to do with the people you want to be with;
  • The value of spending time with people who are going through a difficult situation regardless of whether that situation is permanent or not;
  • The idea of an emotional bucket that you control who fills and empties it;
  • Providing continued support to people in grief by reaching out via text, phone or an offer to come by AFTER the first 3 months;
  • The decision to create and then fulfill your legacy.

We opened the 2nd season of our Messy Middlescence podcast discussing grief and loss. We continue with that topic – which will be a recurring theme this season – in our interview today with Anne-Marie Lockmyer (https://www.griefandtraumahealing.com/). Anne-Marie is a grief recovery specialist and award winning author of the book “When Their World Stops: The Essential Guide to Truly Helping Anyone in Grief”.

We feel strongly that our interview with Anne-Marie is one that every person – regardless of age and circumstance – can benefit from. At some point in our lives, someone we love or care deeply for will undergo a devastating loss. While our intent maybe to provide help, support and comfort, we often do not know what to do or say. And perhaps – even worse – we do or say the absolute worst thing. Anne-Marie provides extremely practical advice and concrete examples on how to help someone who is grieving. Despite the difficult topic, Anne-Marie brings hope and positive energy to our conversation. 

We hope you will join us as we educate ourselves about grief and discuss with Anne-Marie the following topics:

Anne-Marie’s captivating and inspiring personal story which details her own experience with devastating grief and her journey to becoming a grief recovery specialist;

How grief is a natural part of any significant loss (not just death) and people should be educated about it and given tools to help process it;

Each grief journey is totally unique and has no timetable and no checklists;

Grief is a traumatic emotional injury and its recovery should be viewed similarly to a traumatic physical injury allowing as much time, space and help that is needed to heal;

What we should and should not say to someone who is grieving;

What is helpful and not helpful to someone who is grieving;

The idea that we as a society/culture are not comfortable with unhappy feelings and we need to learn to get comfortable being uncomfortable;

It is impossible to talk someone out of being sad.

We hope you listen and find this episode as valuable and helpful as we did.

Welcome to January! The end of the holidays can hit hard. Even when your holidays have been absolutely perfect, it can be challenging not to dread everything that awaits us in January. Whether it is taking down decorations, starting back on the work/school routine, saying goodbye to loved ones or even just facing those holiday bills – January is full of difficult tasks. We think for most people there is an inevitable sadness -- or perhaps cheerlessness is a better word - that permeates most people’s lives as January begins. It is so easy and tempting to shut the door on December and trudge forward with our heads down.

May we suggest a more nuanced approach? As January unfolds, spend some time thinking about your holiday(s). What were your high points? Replay those moments that brought you joy over and over as we traverse these long winter months. And then try welcoming January with a theme or some positive or fun intentions (definitely no resolutions or promises). Do not be afraid to do this slowly. There is no rush! All of 2025 stretches in front of us.

We hope you will join us as Tara and Tina do all these things as we ease our way out of the holidays and into 2025. We relive the high and low points of our holidays, talk about favorite things of 2024 and our intentions for 2025. We hope our discussion helps ease your transition away from the holidays and generates some gentle excitement for the upcoming year.

The end of every calendar year sees “best of” lists for just about every cultural category imaginable. But “best” is not easily defined when it comes to art and culture — especially when used by critics. Most of the culture that Tara and Tina consume comes from reading and as a result they are continually searching for book recommendations.

Although critics’ lists are sometimes helpful, Tina and Tara have found that those books recommended by family and friends usually resonate far more than those on the critics’ lists. It is with this mindset that they chose to do their own “best of” episode as 2024 comes to a close.

For Tara and Tina, “best of” means the books they enjoyed reading the most this past year. In this episode they discuss their favorite fiction and non-fiction books of this past year. They hope some of these titles make their way into your reading future. They would also love to hear some of your favorite books of 2024!

Is kindness overrated? We don’t think so. Maybe it is our age, maybe it is the world we currently live in – but it seems, if anything, that kindness is vastly underrated and something our society and communities could use more of.

 Cue Tracey Willis Gates – self-proclaimed “kindness ambassador” and author of the book “The Power of A Few Kind Words: Create a More Meaningful Life, One Letter at a Time” which shows how important, how easy, and how meaningful kindness can be.

Gates’ book documents her transformational journey of writing a handwritten, unexpected letter of appreciation to a different person every day for one year. Tara and Tina both read Tracey’s book and feel this is a book everyone should read and can benefit from. We were so thrilled to speak with Tracey after reading her book and she does not disappoint.

Tracey is not advocating everyone imitate the impressive and daunting challenge she gave herself. Rather, she shows and shares through her journey the powerful impact of 1) being observant to the gifts and things we appreciate in the people we interact with and 2) the simple way that acknowledging these things through words can have.

We love her assertion that kindness is both a superpower AND a learned behavior. Our ability to be kind is strengthened and improved with practice - making kindness something we can all work on incorporating more intentionally into our daily life. But this is just one part of Tracey’s story. There are so many positive and inspirational messages in her book. Tracey’s challenge to herself, which transformed her life in so many ways, occurred during her middlescence years and she is a prime example that it is never too late to find your purpose. She passionately advocates for all the good things that happen as you age. And she demonstrates that a small series of seemingly unrelated steps can often lead to a serendipitous journey with unexpected and fulfilling results.

As we move into the holiday and gift-giving season, we hope Tracey’s many messages will inspire you to take the time to make connections and be more present to those around you and to practice your own small acts of kindness. They are free. And as Tracey’s stories show – a powerful medicine for both the giver and the recipient.