Last year, a former Obama-era Defense Department official testified before Congress about Chinese strategy in the Middle East, saying "China's strategy in the Middle East is driven by its economic interests...China...does not appear interested in substantially deepening its diplomatic or security activities there." This view certainly sums up conventional foreign-policy wisdom, but, write the Hudson Institute scholars Michael Doran and Peter Rough, it couldn't be more wrong.

In an extended essay published in Tablet, Doran and Rough demonstrate that "China is very actively engaged in a hard-power contest with the United States," in the Middle East. The outcome of this great-power competition will have tremendous implications for the global economy, human rights, and U.S. interests in the region and around the globe.

In this podcast, Dr. Doran joins Mosaic's editor Jonathan Silver for an extended conversation on this important piece. They explore China's goals in the region, how the People's Republic uses Russia and Iran to advance its goals, the military implications of the Belt and Road Initiative, China's horrific persecution of the Uighurs, and much more.

Musical selections in this podcast are drawn from the Quintet for Clarinet and Strings, op. 31a, composed by Paul Ben-Haim and performed by the ARC Ensemble.