A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code + Theory, a growing 2000 person agency which combines technology and creativity. Michael discusses the disruption in consumer behavior, why B2B client service is becoming more holistic, and why companies should "go on offense" in a time of uncertainty. Key topics include: The strategic question of "What do you want your humans to be doing;" his belief that there will be a growing demand for ROI on tech spending; how everyone can become a creative change agent; and why he hates the concept of "The Big Idea." Tune in to hear the lesson of "prompt engineers" and an analogy of how playing in a punk band is like learning to use AI.

In this week’s episode of CMO Confidential, five-time CMO Mike Linton is joined by Michael Treff, CEO of award-winning agency Code and Theory for a no-holds-barred discussion on why most AI strategies are missing the point.

Treff—who leads an agency named B2B Agency of the Year by Ad Age and innovation standout by Fast Company—argues that leaders are mistaking AI tools for strategy. Instead, he lays out a bold case for orchestration—aligning people, tools, and data across the enterprise to drive real customer value. Together, Mike and Michael unpack:

• Why B2B marketers need to stop treating customers like corporate buyers and start treating them like humans.

• Why defensive strategies during disruption are a recipe for irrelevance.

• The myth of the “big idea”—and why creativity has been democratized.

• Why prompt engineers were never the future.

• What AI orchestration really means—and how it can finally connect data silos, unify customer journeys, and drive performance.

Whether you’re a CMO, agency leader, or aspiring executive, this is an unmissable playbook for navigating AI disruption, avoiding short-sighted efficiency traps, and building brands that thrive.

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch the full episode on YouTube.

🔗 Sponsored by  @PublicisSapient  — Smarter marketing, happier teams, wow-worthy customer moments.

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⏱️ YouTube Chapter Timestamps:

00:00 - Welcome to CMO Confidential

01:15 - Meet Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory

03:08 - AI Disruption in B2B: Humanizing the Customer

06:00 - Why B2B Requires a Holistic Customer Lens

08:47 - Agency Mergers & The Death of the Middle

11:35 - Scale vs. Focus: Who Wins in Holding Company Wars?

14:10 - Leadership in an Anxious Market: Offense vs. Defense

17:25 - Code and Theory’s Internal AI Transformation

20:15 - The Myth of the Prompt Engineer

22:10 - Why Most AI Strategies Are Flawed

25:00 - Connecting People, Tools, and Data with AI

27:15 - Democratizing Creativity: What It Really Means

30:00 - Why the Big Idea is Dead (and What Comes Next)

32:25 - Predictions for 2025 in B2B, Tech & AI

34:05 - Final Advice: Everyone Can Lead Change

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