CMO Confidential

A CMO Confidential Interview with Bob Liodice, the long-time CEO of the Association of National Advertisers (ANA). Bob shares thoughts on the rapidly evolving marketing landscape, why AI won't necessarily translate to growth, the challenges of the CMO position, and the importance of lifelong learning and curiosity to successful careers.

Key topics include:

- Why you need to rip up your playbook every year

- The need to value brands from a financial perspective

- The idea of getting comfortable enough with all of the tools, data and media to make informed decisions

- The evolution of cross media measurement including the Aquila model being pioneered by the ANA and a number of companies and associations

Tune in to hear how he grew the ANA from 188 member companies to 1,600 (representing over 20,000 brands) and a story about media waste and transparency.

⏱️ Chapters

1:08 - State of Marketing and Industry Evolution

8:54 - AI, Consumer Discovery, and Funnels

11:41 - The Complex Job of the CMO

17:44 - B2B and B2C Marketing Convergence

21:18 - Solving Cross Media Measurement

This episode is sponsored by NOAN - the company that builds a fact layer for your brand, creating a single source of truth for your team, both human and agent. Learn more: getnoan.com/cmo.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Kipp Bodnar, CMO of HubSpot and author of the newly released book, "Loop: A New Growth Model for an AI-First World."

Kipp discusses why the marketing funnel is no longer useful, his belief that AI has ushered in a new era where judgement and taste provide the biggest edge, and why "great marketing has to hurt."

Key topics include:

- The importance of mentions and attributions

- How judgement and taste can be learned

- Why you should strive for "counterfactual insights"

- Tips for finding top caliber employees

Tune in to hear a story about the Savannah Bananas and why "You've got to be like Taylor Swift - remarkable and prolific" with your marketing.

⏱️ Chapters

2:18 - The Broken Funnel and AI Disruption

5:04 - Attribution Models in the AI Era

7:48 - Content Quality and AI Slop

10:45 - The Role of Judgment and Taste

17:10 - Non-Binary Decisions and Big Bets

24:49 - CMO and CIO Collaboration

26:39 - Metrics, Creators, and Modern Marketing

31:27 - Practical Advice and Closing Thoughts

This episode is sponsored by NOAN - the company that builds a fact layer for your brand, creating a single source of truth for your team, both human and agent. Learn more: getnoan.com/cmo.

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael D'Esopo, CEO of Lippincott, formerly the President and Director of Brand Strategy. Michael shares research on more than 500 senior marketing leaders which highlights the pressures on CMOs to balance their focus between growth, AI, the customer experience, immediate results, and more.

Key topics include:

- The risk of having too much focus on short-term results

- The importance of having a customer agenda

- Why stakeholder alignment is one of the key things to get right

- The need to translate marketing to C-Suite objectives

Tune in to hear a story about adidas and why you shouldn't do market research at a wedding.

⏱️ Chapters

0:19 - Introduction to Michael D'Esopo

0:38 - The CMO Trust Study Findings

4:19 - The Trust Trade-Off and Short-Term Pressure

8:34 - Aligning Marketing with C-Suite Goals

13:51 - Expansion of the CMO Remit

19:37 - Impact of AI on Marketing

22:58 - Alignment, Focus, and Customer Experience

27:59 - Advice for Marketers and Final Stories

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Emily Frager, Chief Client Officer at FleishmanHillard, board member of USC Annenberg Center for PR, formerly CMO of Lennar Ventures.

Em discusses why public relations has become a much more important business function, how AI has changed the game, and the need for speed in reputation management.

Key topics include:

- The shift from downstream reaction to upstream planning

- The importance of organization and governance

- Why a data-driven "ground game" matters more than ever

- How to "be prepared"

Tune in to hear why the fear of being wrong usually complicates and slows your reaction and why the Taylor Swift wedding NDA is a masterclass in control.

⏱️ Chapters

1:42 - Communications and PR Moment

9:46 - Shifting From Publicity to Engineering

17:45 - Best Practices and Governance

24:50 - Agency Partnerships and RFPs

29:37 - Major Stories and Practical Advice

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Aneesh Dhawan, the Co-Founder and CEO of Knit, an AI Native Research Firm.

Aneesh shares toplines from Knit's AI Trust Survey of 150+ enterprise research leaders and details how the biggest fear has morphed from potential job loss to AI outputs without expert, human judgement.

Key topics include:

- The difference between data, insights and storytelling

- Why research utopia may be just around the corner

- Tips for vendor selection

- The importance of good governance habits

Tune in to hear why your research leader will eventually function like a Head Chef.

⏱️ Chapters

1:30 - AI in Market Research

3:06 - AI Trust Index Findings

4:28 - Greatest AI Researcher Fears

7:01 - Governance and Human Judgment

11:31 - ROI and AI Slop

14:14 - The Future of Research

16:09 - Choosing AI Research Vendors

18:05 - Governance and Best Practices

24:26 - Addressing the Trust Gap

27:03 - Advice for AI Implementation

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Rishad Tobaccowala, author of "Rethinking Work," formerly the President of Starcom and the Publicis Chief Strategy & Growth Officer. Rishad discusses the rise of "alien intelligence" and why it is unstoppable and ungovernable, how the generational divide is getting worse, and his belief that many marketers have "outsourced marketing."

Key topics include:

- Why AI is like "hydrochloric acid burning through your org structure"

- The rising importance of facts versus storytelling

- Why "jobs are a silly phase work is going through"

- The reason work should be easier for seasoned employees

Tune in to hear a story about Madam Bovary and why you should ask AI to write your obituary.

⏱️ Chapters

01:42 - The Five Big Factors in the Marketplace

07:01 - Implications for the Marketing Front

19:13 - The Path Forward for Leaders

26:49 - AI as Hydrochloric Acid

31:11 - Closing Advice & Wrap-Up

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Kristin Wozniak, Chief Growth Officer and Data Officer at Cosmo5, formerly SVP Analytics and Strategy at Cossette Media.

Kristin discusses why she believes many leaders have developed an unhealthy obsession with data, how "the need for certainty" stifles innovation, and Goodhart's law, which states "when a measure becomes a target, it's no longer a good measure."

Key topics include:

- The risk of constantly wanting more data and dashboards

- The need for "buddy metrics"

- Why you should link KPI's, compensation, and business results

- The concepts of "AI Brain Fry" and "Hiding Behind the Data"

Chapters 🕚

1:23 - Unhealthy Data Obsession Among Leaders

5:23 - Symptoms of Data Overload

8:38 - Managing Data and Innovation Blockers

14:32 - Understanding Goodhart's Law in Marketing

16:15 - Gaming Metrics and Personal Incentives

19:42 - Challenges with Retention Metrics

23:33 - Strategies for Data-Obsessed Companies

28:46 - Team-Based Metrics for 2027

30:43 - The Data Disconnect Story

Tune in to hear a great cobra example and a story on tortoise and turtle research.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Maryam Banikarim, Chair of The Wall Street Journal CMO Council, Co-Founder of The Longest Table, and 5-time CMO.

Maryam discusses how the industry is evolving, the continuing importance of data and storytelling, why many leaders are wondering "if they want the job," and how every CMO job is different.

Key topics include:

- Why so many people have a side hustle

- How younger employees see corporate jobs as "higher risk"

- Why the key to success is "knowing how to pick yourself up and recover"

Tune in to hear why you should "Stop blaming your parents!" and how a key character for the late '70s show Taxi was created.

⏱️ Chapters

1:46 - AI and Marketing Evolution

6:13 - CMO Role and Responsibilities

10:39 - Agency Trends and Side Hustles

19:39 - Community Building and Leadership

25:46 - Working with Executive Boards

29:07 - Managing Career Setbacks

32:20 - Personal Anecdotes and Conclusion

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To celebrate our 175th episode, we sit down with Neal Mann, CEO and Co-Founder of NOAN (an AI-native fact layer business), formerly the Global Head of Transformation at Anomaly and News Corp journalist. Neal shares his thoughts on what it takes to create and manage AI agents, the importance of "structure," and how to combat "AI Slop." 

Key topics include:

- How onboarding an agent is similar to onboarding a human

- Why AI thrives on structure

- The concept of "A Business Brain built with Legos"

Tune in to hear how to "fire" an agent and why the Netflix series "Mindhunter" is a tutorial on corporate transformation in addition to a show about serial killers.

⏱️ Chapters

1:21 - Defining AI Agents vs Assistants

2:27 - Implementing Agents into Team Workflows

6:19 - Structuring Data for AI Success

10:42 - Avoiding the AI Slop Problem

16:51 - Tracking ROI of AI Agents

23:30 - Tips for Onboarding AI Agents

27:06 - AI Impact on Marketing Agencies

29:38 - Common Mistakes in AI Adoption

32:01 - Final Advice on Business Transformation

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Ed Dobbles, Founder of Dobbles.AI and former VP of Analytics and Insights at Diageo, H&R Block, and SUPERVALU. Ed discusses the evolution of analytics from the Almanac to BI to Generative Analytics and explains his thinking on why great tools often don't get used. 

Key topics include:

- Why "Analytics is hard, but people are harder"

- How generative analytics will allow leaders to truly talk to their data

- The importance of AI governance

- Why "All models are wrong but some are useful"

Tune in to hear stories about H&R Block, Malort Liquor, and the racquetball court at Best Buy. 

⏱️ Chapters

1:44 - Defining Analytics and Business Intelligence

3:26 - The Evolution of Data Adoption

9:31 - Analytics and Human Factors

15:06 - AI Systems and Synthetic Panels

24:35 - Building Future Analytics Teams

32:10 - Closing Advice and Stories

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