A CMO Confidential Interview with James Shira, Principal, Global and US CIO and Global CISO at PwC. James details how  @PwC  is running an "AI marketplace" within the company which features a number of models, his focus on scale, security, and user experience, and the case for approaching AI with a "humility" mindset. Key topics include: how the CISO (Chief Information Security Officer) balances rapid enablement and security needs; why CMO's should have a working knowledge of the technology roadmap; and tips for aligning with your CIO. Tune in to hear how to "go rogue" if you must and a story about socks.

Sponsored by Scrunch AI: learn more here → https://www.scrunchai.com/cmo

Global CIO & CISO James Shira joins Mike to decode what your CIO wishes you knew—AI adoption, security trade-offs, model “marketplaces,” and how CMOs should really partner with IT. Concrete guidance on prioritization, tech stack decisions, legacy constraints, and when “going rogue” is justified. Practical, senior-level playbook for winning with AI without lighting money—or trust—on fire.

**Chapters**

00:00 – Welcome & setup: “What your CIO wants to tell you, but won’t”

01:15 – The AI era: pace, complexity, stakeholder pressure

03:24 – Humility first: why being late to AI isn’t OK

04:09 – Designing for scale, security, and real user adoption at PwC

06:00 – Building a model “marketplace” (40+ models) & minimum bars

07:27 – Guardrails: encryption, data governance, and safe experimentation

09:32 – Adoption reality: super-users, skeptics, and moving the middle

11:00 – What “leading” looks like: C-suite prioritization & high-value use cases

13:00 – CISO shift: from gatekeeper to enabler; managing Kobayashi-Maru choices

16:59 – How marketers help: anticipate CIO/CISO problems, simplify choices

19:00 – MarTech the smart way: align to architecture, reduce sprawl, bring options

22:00 – No IT dance partner? Work with COO/CFO; standardize and choose fit over “sexy”

24:33 – Legacy estates: outsource vs. “AI-ify” retained work; show ROI math

26:29 – When to go rogue—and how not to get fired doing it

31:00 – Free advice to agencies: do the work, bring substance, not spam

32:00 – Closing & funniest story (Zurich board-meeting socks)

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,James Shira,PwC,CIO,CISO,AI,GenAI,AI adoption,AI governance,cybersecurity,enterprise IT,MarTech,marketing technology,tech stack,cloud strategy,data governance,model marketplace,digital transformation,change management,prioritization,COO,CFO,CapEx,legacy modernization,outsourcing,automation,meeting summaries,audit,experimentation,go rogue,executive leadership,marketing strategy,enterprise software,boardroom,CMO tips

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Rob Ward, co-founder and General Partner of Meritech Capital, a top Silicon Valley venture firm. Rob shares his take on what he calls a "super terrifying and exciting time" and provides perspective on AI receiving the most capital of any technology in history, the "durability of revenue" and how quickly start-ups are now reaching $100 million in revenue. Key topics include: why VC's focus on growth vs. profitability; the risks associated with massive long-term capital investment; why marketers should pick a "trusted advisor" as their AI partner; and why your data strategy needs "context. Tune in to hear how Astronomer handled the "Coldplay Concert Incident" which immediately became a PR classic and the "VC Foie Gras Effect."

What happens when a top venture capitalist pulls back the curtain on AI, valuations, hype cycles, and what’s actually working?

In this episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Rob Ward, Co-Founder and General Partner at Metech Capital, to unpack the realities behind the AI boom. Rob has spent more than 26 years investing in category-defining companies like Facebook (Meta), Snowflake, NetSuite, Zipcar, and Cloudera — and he brings a rare, grounded perspective to today’s AI frenzy.

Together, they explore:

• Why AI adoption is still early — despite explosive growth

• The real risks behind inflated valuations and “AI-washing”

• How VC decision-making changes during platform shifts

• What marketers and executives should actually look for when choosing AI partners

• Why data strategy, change management, and trust matter more than tools

• What layoffs, productivity, and the future of work really look like beneath the headlines

• A masterclass in crisis communications, featuring Ryan Reynolds, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Coldplay

If you’re a CMO, CEO, board member, founder, or agency leader trying to make sense of AI without getting swept up in the hype — this is a must-listen conversation.

New episodes of CMO Confidential drop every Tuesday.

Subscribe for insider perspectives on the most misunderstood role in the C-suite.



⸻

Chapter Markers

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

00:19 – Introducing Rob Ward and today’s AI conversation

01:13 – Where we really are in AI adoption

02:26 – Explosive AI growth: what’s real vs hype

03:35 – Why enterprise AI adoption is still a slog

04:37 – Vendor spend, hyperscalers, and the trillion-dollar buildout

06:12 – Is this an AI bubble? Public vs private market realities

07:20 – Accelerating investment rounds and lack of diligence

08:12 – AI-washing and durability of AI businesses

09:46 – Proof-of-concepts, switching costs, and fragile loyalty

10:55 – Big Tech vs startups: why this cycle is different

11:40 – Why VCs chase platform shifts despite the risks

13:05 – How AI is changing profitability and headcount math

16:11 – “FOGRA” investing and capital distortion

17:00 – Circular investing and data-center risk

18:23 – Data centers, GPUs, and betting on the wrong future

19:38 – Credit default swaps and financial warning signs

21:45 – How executives should choose AI vendors

22:58 – Change management and why culture matters most

24:09 – Why data strategy is the real AI strategy

26:36 – “Frequently wrong, never in doubt” and AI hallucinations

27:01 – Practical AI use cases for marketers

30:00 – Layoffs, productivity, and what’s really happening to jobs

33:05 – The best questions to spot real AI fluency

35:00 – AI safety, geopolitics, and long-term risks

36:38 – Crisis management masterclass: Astronomer, Coldplay & Ryan Reynolds

39:58 – Final advice and closing thoughts

⸻

Comma-Separated Tags

CMO Confidential, AI strategy, artificial intelligence, venture capital, Rob Ward, Metech Capital, AI adoption, AI hype, AI bubble, enterprise AI, generative AI, AI in marketing, CMO leadership, marketing leadership, venture investing, AI vendors, data strategy, change management, AI readiness, tech valuations, AI infrastructure, data centers, future of work, AI layoffs, crisis communications, brand crisis management, Ryan Reynolds marketing, Gwyneth Paltrow Astronomer, Coldplay controversy, Silicon Valley, marketing podcast, C-suite leadership

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"Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales, and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard starts with the basics of salary, bonus and equity and branches out to compensation mix, the various types of equity, negotiating best practices, and the "other" elements of an offer. Key topics include: why the devil is in the details; when and how to discuss compensation; the difference between dumb luck and bad luck; and why everyone should do a "multi-year cash flow analysis." Tune in to hear why you should always read the proxy statement and the importance of being prepared to explain how you are using AI.

*Dissecting CMO Compensation with Richard Sanderson (Spencer Stuart) — Salary, Bonus, Equity & Negotiation Playbook*

What’s “market” for a modern CMO, and how do you actually negotiate it? Richard Sanderson, who leads Spencer Stuart’s Marketing, Communications & Sales Practice, breaks down the three pillars of pay (salary, bonus, equity), compensation mix by ownership model, and the real rules of negotiating offers, severance, and forfeitures. We also tackle vesting, RSUs vs. options vs. PSUs, what to ask recruiters (legally) about pay ranges, how to manage your team when equity is underwater, and why every CMO needs crisp AI impact stories in interviews. Actionable, candid, and built for executives who make or take offers.

*Chapters*

00:00 Intro — Welcome to CMO Confidential & Richard’s background

01:50 Why comp is hard to decode (and why it matters)

02:12 The building blocks: salary, bonus, equity

03:21 The data gap: only ~4% of F1000 list marketing leaders as NEOs

04:26 Salary basics, bands, and industry norms

05:35 Bonus mechanics & the one question to ask (3-year payout history)

06:38 Equity 101 — long-term incentives and where value really accrues

07:25 Compensation mix: public, PE, private, nonprofit

08:25 Geography effect — US vs. Europe on equity weighting

09:23 RSUs explained (and why they always have some value)

10:19 Options & strike prices — upside vs. “underwater” risk

10:57 PSUs — performance gates, accelerators, and board metrics

12:17 Vesting types: time, performance, and event-based triggers

13:15 Forfeitures if you leave early (and what’s negotiable)

15:09 Negotiating framework — timing, laws, posture

16:34 When to talk comp without signaling “it’s just the money”

17:58 Pay transparency laws — expectations vs. history; what recruiters can ask

20:23 Forfeitures checklist: bonus timing, unvested equity, make-wholes

21:36 Know your company’s rules (eligibility dates, presence requirements)

22:36 Smart pushback: asking for the range and reducing info asymmetry

23:47 Your moment of max leverage: the verbal offer

27:58 Beyond pay: severance, sign-on, relocation, start date, perks

29:00 CMO tenure math and why severance matters

32:31 “Am I underpaid?” How to build a real case

34:34 Managing your team through pay angst & proxy transparency

36:29 Underwater equity — empathy, vision, and refresh cycles

38:22 Timing luck: annual grants & market swings (“Liberation Day” example)

40:00 Do the 5-year cash-flow comparison (and bridge Year 1–2)

42:04 The new relocation math (mortgages & cost deltas)

43:06 Titles, reporting lines, non-competes, and day-one docs

43:50 Should you ever turn down a written offer?

45:23 The reputational risk of reneging

47:05 Be ready: the AI question in every CMO interview

48:32 Wrap

*Tags*

CMO Confidential, Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart, CMO compensation, executive pay, salary bands, bonus plans, equity RSUs, stock options, PSUs, vesting, severance, negotiation, forfeitures, compensation mix, private equity, public companies, proxy statements, pay transparency laws, marketing leadership, executive recruiting, board compensation, make-whole bonus, cash flow analysis, AI in marketing

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"Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Alex Schultz, the Meta CMO and VP of Analytics, and author of Click Here: The Art & Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. Alex details why he believes in decentralized analytics and the importance of focusing on core results vs vanity metrics, why AI is a "threshold technology", and why and how the company transitioned to Meta. Key topics include: the barbell distribution of AI competency (native users and very senior experienced leaders); why he believes so strongly in "incrementality measurements"; how he and his team handle the emotional impact of being in the center of political discussions and; why marketers should be thinking about 2027. Tune in to hear a story about affiliate marketing incentives gone wrong and the eBay/Google "Tea Party" incident.

What’s it really like to be CMO at one of the most scrutinized companies in the world?

In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host Mike Linton sits down with **Alex Schultz**, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, for a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation on marketing leadership inside the eye of the storm. Alex breaks down how Meta structures marketing and analytics at global scale, why marketing must be centralized while analytics should not, and what most companies get wrong about “one source of truth.”

The conversation goes deep on navigating nonstop political and cultural pressure, shortening negative news cycles, and keeping teams emotionally grounded when the brand is under fire. Alex also shares some of the clearest executive thinking we’ve heard on AI as a *threshold technology* — where it truly creates leverage, where humans must stay in the loop, and how CMOs should assess AI talent today.

The episode closes with inside stories from the Facebook-to-Meta rebrand, hard-earned lessons from eBay on incrementality measurement, and practical advice for preparing your organization for 2027 and beyond.

If you’re a CMO, CEO, founder, or senior operator responsible for growth, measurement, and brand under pressure — this is required listening.

New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.

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## Chapters & Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

00:01 – Alex Schultz’s role: CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta

00:03 – Why marketing is centralized but analytics are decentralized

00:06 – “One source of truth” and killing vanity metrics

00:09 – Marketing while constantly in the global spotlight

00:11 – Managing crisis cycles, truth, and comms alignment

00:12 – AI’s real impact on marketing productivity

00:15 – AI as a threshold technology (precision vs. recall)

00:17 – How AI is reshaping analytics, creative, and teams

00:18 – Hiring for AI: the barbell talent distribution

00:22 – Preparing for 2027: information flow and AI philosophy

00:25 – How B2B marketing is (and isn’t) changing

00:28 – Inside the Facebook → Meta rebrand

00:32 – Lessons from eBay: incrementality over last-click

00:36 – What downturns reveal about leadership talent

00:37 – Why Alex wrote his book on digital marketing

00:40 – Affiliate marketing, incentives, and unintended consequences

00:43 – Final advice for CMOs and marketers

---

CMO Confidential, Alex Schultz, Meta marketing, Facebook Meta rebrand, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, executive marketing, analytics strategy, marketing analytics, AI in marketing, artificial intelligence marketing, incrementality measurement, digital marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth marketing, brand under pressure, crisis communications, marketing measurement, performance marketing, last click attribution, marketing org design, marketing podcast

--

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A CMO Confidential Interview with DJ Patil, Great Point Ventures investor and former U.S. Chief Data Scientist in the Obama Administration. DJ discusses why AI adoption is "lumpy" like unbaked cake mix, the difference between large models and focused applications, and why consultants are probably not the best way to make progress. Key topics include: Maslow's Hierarchy of AI with power, data and water as the foundation; a timeline juxtaposition of AI evolution versus culture and policy change; and his belief that marketers have a unique position to add "human connectivity" in to the mix. Tune in to hear a view on AI and health care as well as how Waymo almost ruined a date night.

What does AI adoption *really* look like inside large organizations—and why does it feel so uneven?

In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host **Mike Linton** sits down with **DJ Patil**—former U.S. Chief Data Scientist, AI leader at eBay and LinkedIn, and longtime advisor and investor—for a clear-eyed update from the front lines of AI.

DJ explains why AI progress feels “lumpy,” why culture—not technology—is the biggest blocker to ROI, and what boards, CEOs, and CMOs must do now to avoid falling behind. From autonomous warfare and small models to Wall Street hype cycles, job displacement, and what AI means for the future of marketing, this is a practical, executive-level conversation about what’s real, what’s noise, and what comes next.

If you lead a company, manage a brand, sit on a board, or are building a career in marketing, this episode will recalibrate how you think about AI adoption, investment, and organizational change.

🎧 New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.

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Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

00:32 – Introducing DJ Patil and today’s AI focus

01:26 – Where are we really on the AI adoption curve?

02:54 – Why AI progress feels “lumpy” across industries

03:35 – AI fluency vs. AI-native talent

05:22 – AI in education: banning it vs. embracing it

05:57 – AI on the battlefield: Ukraine, drones, and autonomy

07:50 – Big models vs. small models and open source AI

08:12 – The AI investment landscape and industry chaos

09:12 – AI breakthroughs in math and problem-solving

10:52 – Where AI is actually delivering value today

11:50 – ROI, hype cycles, and Amara’s Law

13:46 – When AI savings really show up on the balance sheet

15:17 – Why culture is the biggest blocker to AI success

16:03 – AI speed vs. slow-moving organizations and policy

18:13 – Why executives can’t delegate AI leadership

19:56 – The limits of traditional consulting for AI

22:41 – Job cuts, automation, and what AI is really replacing

25:48 – Why AI isn’t “ready” yet—but is getting close

26:32 – AI as the biggest prize in the history of capitalism

27:18 – Where DJ Patil is investing in AI

29:00 – AI opportunities in healthcare and government

30:27 – What AI means for marketers and marketing careers

34:10 – A Waymo story: the promise and imperfections of AI

35:12 – Final thoughts and where to find more episodes

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CMO Confidential, DJ Patil, Mike Linton, AI adoption, artificial intelligence strategy, AI for executives, AI and marketing, AI ROI, AI investment, AI leadership, AI culture, future of marketing, chief marketing officer, CMO podcast, executive podcast, boardroom strategy, AI transformation, AI jobs, AI and automation, AI in healthcare, AI governance, enterprise AI, AI fluency, AI native, tech leadership, data science, digital transformation

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A CMO Confidential interview with Dick Satterfield, the founder of Satterfield Rezenbrink Search and former P&G sales leader. Dick discusses career management under the framework of "successful and happy" and outlines why you should constantly be thinking about and evaluating your career. Key topics include why career progression is defined as continuous learning and getting promoted, tips for networking, when is too early or too late to leave, and why counter offers almost always fail . Listen in to hear why you should view the "next job" as a stepping stone versus the perfect landing.

Dick Satterfield, veteran executive recruiter and former P&G sales leader, breaks down when to leave, how to create real options, and what it takes to land (and succeed in) your next role. We cover the “successful and happy” framework, real vs. faux promotions, how to run a stealth search while employed, the truth about counteroffers, and why marketers must present as business leaders driving revenue and efficiency. Practical, no-nonsense advice for CMOs, aspiring CMOs, and any exec managing a high-stakes career.

Chapters

00:00 Intro: CMO Confidential + today’s topic

00:00:43 Meet Dick Satterfield + why this conversation matters

00:02:11 Framework: “Are you successful and happy?”

00:03:39 What recruiters really scan first: promotions and scope

00:05:38 Real vs. “quasi-fake” promotions (one direct report ≠ management)

00:05:59 Could I leave? Too early vs. too late; the commuting rule of 3

00:08:12 Knowing when your learning curve has flattened

00:10:24 Would I leave? How to search while employed (and build leverage)

00:12:25 Target list → warm intros → the right recruiters

00:14:31 Time management for the search (30 minutes a day)

00:15:14 If you’re in transition: process, momentum, and managing home life

00:17:21 Offers: optimize for where you’re most likely to succeed

00:19:31 Interview the company: decision speed and what success looks like

00:21:00 Counteroffers: why ~85% don’t stick

00:22:38 Negotiating severance (and when it actually gets set)

00:24:00 Biggest career mistake: not managing your career like a project

00:25:00 For marketers: be a business leader, not “just” marketing

00:26:13 Practical closer: return recruiter calls—before you need them

00:26:55 Wrap

Tags

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Dick Satterfield,executive search,career management,career strategy,CMO career,marketing leadership,job search,career progression,promotions,scope of responsibility,learning curve,commuting rules,hybrid work,networking,warm introductions,recruiters,retained search,counteroffers,severance negotiation,compensation,offer negotiation,interview tips,decision rights,success metrics,marketing as investment,top line growth,cost efficiency,business leader,P&G,Procter & Gamble,board ready,executive transitions,VP marketing,chief marketing officer,senior leadership,career mistakes,practical advice

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Kate Bullis and David Wiser, Managing Partners and Global Marketing Practice Leaders for ZRG Partners. Kate and David translate their extensive search experience to classify common mistakes into "movie themes" and share tips on how to recognize if you are directing or reading for a part in a disaster film. From "Play It Again, Sam," to "No, No, It's Really A CMO Role!" to "Death by Committee!" they describe the all-too-familiar plotlines and how to tear apart the hype from the facts. Hints: Look at the dashboard, listen to the questions and beware of the "Hands on the keyboard" role. Tune in to hear why companies should focus on outcomes versus qualifications and why you should always check your Zoom background.

What are the five bad “movies” CEOs and boards keep remaking when they hire CMOs—and how do you avoid starring in one? Mike Linton sits down with ZRG Partners’ Kate Bullis and David Wiser to unpack 2025’s CMO market, why early-stage hiring should rebound, and how capital and IPO activity reset expectations from “profit at all costs” back to growth. They break down the most common failure modes—chasing a playbook, hiring an “orchestra,” titling a demand-gen job as “CMO,” forcing marketing to “stay in its lane,” and letting committees kill momentum—and the exact questions candidates and CEOs should ask to surface scope, KPIs, authority, and alignment.

You’ll hear red flags like “hands-on keyboard,” why the KPI dashboard effectively *is* the job description, and how cross-functional interviews reveal whether a CMO will be a strategist or an order taker. David and Kate close with urgency discipline for searches and a three-year business-back plan for defining the role.

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ZRG Partners, Kate Bullis, David Wiser, CMO hiring, marketing leadership, executive search, CEO, board of directors, hiring mistakes, KPI dashboard, hands-on-keyboard, demand generation, brand vs performance, org design, stay in your lane, death by committee, playbook vs framework, 2025 job market, private equity, IPOs, marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth vs profitability

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Chapters

00:00 – Welcome & show setup

01:08 – Meet Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)

01:32 – 2025 CMO job market outlook

02:56 – Where hiring rebounds first (startups vs. public)

04:24 – From profitability snapback to growth focus

05:35 – Theme 1: “Play it again, Sam” (playbook thinking)

06:48 – Frameworks over playbooks: why “fetch” fails

08:16 – KPIs as the real scope: the dashboard test

10:08 – Theme 2: “I want the orchestra” (do-it-all CMO)

12:44 – Red flag: “hands-on keyboard” and checkbox hiring

14:19 – Theme 3: “No, really, it’s a CMO role” (but it’s demand gen)

15:31 – B2B trap: title inflation and scope mismatch

18:25 – Measure what matters: aligning title, work, and KPIs

19:00 – Theme 4: “Stay in your lane” (the Yes Center)

20:20 – Sales/product-driven constraints and influence

22:00 – Theme 5: “Death by committee” (misalignment & vetoes)

23:18 – Fixing alignment: who decides and how

25:26 – Why bad movies still get made: urgency and drift

27:54 – The other mistake: lack of urgency in searches

28:43 – Funniest recruiting moments (Zoom era)

30:21 – Practical advice: define the next 3 years, then the role

31:29 – Wrap and where to listen

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Tom Stein, the Chairman and founder of Stein and Jann Schwarz, Senior Director of Marketplace Innovation at LinkedIn and founder of Think tank, The B2B Institute, who join us to discuss the 2025 Brand-to- Demand Maturity and the B2B Buyability studies. Tom and Jann share results showing the need to integrate brand and performance marketing in an era when the marketing funnel has collapsed needs fundamental re-thinking and Marketing Qualified Leads (MQLs) are still a key measure (in spite of data showing they've lost their usefulness). Tom and Jann explain why nearly all survey respondents acknowledge a problem but only 20% are taking action. Key topics include: why a good product or service are now "table stakes”; how buyer confidence, human connection and customer experience have become key Buyability differentiators; and the belief that B2B creative is way behind B2C on average. Tune in to hear why “demand-focused marketing" was one of the greatest brand misdirects of all time and a fabulous story of an alter boy accidentally dropping the Baby Jesus.

The Truth Behind the Curtain in B2B: Brand + Demand, MQLs, and “Buyability” with Tom Stein & Jan Schwartz

Description:

Mike Linton sits down with Tom Stein (Stein) and Jan Schwartz (LinkedIn’s B2B Institute) to unpack new ANA research on brand–demand maturity and a bold operating model they call “buyability.” They cover why 80% of marketers say integration matters but aren’t doing it, why MQLs are failing modern buying groups, how to financialize creative and brand, and what CEOs/boards should actually measure to accelerate revenue.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro & guest setup

02:36 Why a brand–demand maturity study now

05:36 The 80% integration gap

07:17 Org design: why teams move slowly

09:36 MQLs under fire (and better alternatives)

10:45 Creative quality in B2B: reality check

13:34 ServiceNow, Idris Elba, and distinctive assets

15:01 The CEO/CFO/Board disconnect

19:00 “Buyability” explained: becoming easier to buy

22:12 Brand as a full-funnel commercial driver

23:40 The funnel is broken; AI ups the stakes

26:59 Playing offense: fewer, better buyer-group leads

28:20 Financializing the case for change

29:56 The budget stat that shocked everyone

31:41 What to do now: category fame, trust, real metrics

34:41 Funniest stories and practical parting advice

37:35 Wrap & where to find more episodes

Tags:

B2B marketing,brand and demand,buyability,MQL,pipeline velocity,CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Tom Stein,Jan Schwartz,LinkedIn B2B Institute,ANA,B2B brand,B2B demand gen,marketing measurement,go to market,Salesforce,ServiceNow,Idris Elba,B2B creative,category fame,board metrics,CFO,CEO,CRO,sales alignment,MarTech,lead gen,buyer groups,brand strategy,revenue growth

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Joel Shapiro, Managerial Economics & Decision Sciences Professor at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern, formerly Varicent Chief Analytics Officer. Joel discusses his NFL study including why some teams handle injury better then others, the idea of finding variables which can't be seen by the naked eye, and his conclusion that resilience has a lot to do with planning, resource deployment and the foresight to think about potential problems. Key topics include: the importance of back-ups; the ability to find business problems that can be solved with data; and how to use data and AI to predict "bad stuff." Tune in to hear about the "percent cash wasted measure," and how Joel's class beat Las Vegas on predicting last year's NHL playoff teams.

**What NFL Injury Data Teaches Business About Resilience — with Joel Shapiro (Kellogg)**

Northwestern Kellogg’s Joel Shapiro returns to CMO Confidential to unpack a surprising finding: predicting player injury isn’t a “failed use case” — and the lessons translate directly to how leaders design resilient organizations. We cover the data model behind injury prediction, Joel’s “percent cash wasted” metric, the real effect of injuries on winning (including offense vs. defense), why backups matter, and how to build purposeful resilience across sales, supply chain, and leadership. Plus: a student project that beat Vegas and a fearless (and funny) Super Bowl take.

Chapters

00:00 Intro — Why this episode matters for executives

01:10 Joel’s remit: turning data & AI into business outcomes

03:19 Injury prediction isn’t a failed use case

05:45 Why the NFL: clean injury data and an 11-year dataset

07:32 What the model outputs: games likely to be missed

08:51 “Percent Cash Wasted”: paying for injured players

10:15 Do injuries really impact winning? The curve is flatter than you think

12:19 Offense vs. defense: wasted cash effects aren’t equal

13:47 Healthy one year, injured the next: who stays good?

14:36 The lever that breaks teams: losing a highly paid QB

15:25 Purposeful resilience vs. “toughing it out”

16:34 Backups matter — translating roster depth to business

18:29 If you can’t prevent every injury, recruit for availability

19:17 Business translation: resilience in sales, supply chain, and leadership

21:42 Treat resilience as strategy, not back-office insurance

24:22 Which companies are structurally resilient (and why scale helps)

24:49 Joel’s bold pick: the Bears’ weird start and a playful prediction

25:36 Data, betting, and integrity — what changes as information improves

27:25 Students vs. Vegas: NHL playoff models that won

28:20 How much data it really takes (rows, columns, and what matters)

29:54 Wrap and where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Joel Shapiro, Northwestern Kellogg, data science, AI, predictive analytics, NFL injuries, sports analytics, resilience, business resilience, risk management, leadership, percent cash wasted, roster construction, backups, quarterback, offense vs defense, supply chain, sales teams, machine learning, predictive modeling, DraftKings, FanDuel, NHL, Kansas City Chiefs, Chicago Bears, C-suite, marketing leadership, podcast, YouTube chapters

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code and Theory joins us for our 150th Show to share observations on the major forces impacting the B2B space. Michael details how "empowered buyers" are forcing sellers to increase focus on customer value creation and transforming marketing and sales from "leads to information" which is also shifting spending to capital expense. Key topics include: why the next AI frontier is customer experience; the need for companies to have both a long and short-term AI plans; why budgeting won't get any easier and; the gap between the CX problems and CX actions. Tune in to hear why you need to have an "AI plan for your humans" and learn if you need " a personalized relationship with your mustard."

CMO Confidential #150: Michael Treff on B2B’s Year-In-Review, What’s Next, and How AI Will Actually Drive Growth**

B2B is being rebuilt from the core. Michael explains why budgets are shifting from media to infrastructure, how the funnel is being rewritten by agentic search, and where AI must move from efficiency to growth. We also cover the KPIs that matter, budgeting realism for 2026, and three things every CMO should know by the end of next year. Sponsored by Typeface—the agentic AI marketing platform helping brands turn one idea into thousands of on-brand experiences. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Chapters**

00:00 Intro + show setup

01:00 Sponsor: Typeface — agentic AI marketing, enterprise-grade & integrated

02:00 Guest intro: Michael Treff, CEO of Code and Theory

03:00 B2B landscape: investment shifts, changing journeys, disintermediation

07:00 From MQLs to value: sales enablement and end-to-end outcomes

10:00 Mid-roll: Typeface ARC agents & content lifecycle

11:00 Why suites win: implementation and value realization after the sale

15:00 AI phases: Wave 1 (efficiency) → Wave 2 (growth) pressures on agencies

17:00 CX as the bridge: measure outcomes, not vanity metrics

22:00 Roadmaps, humans, and culture—planning beyond point tools

26:00 Budget reality check: deliberation, polarization, and trade-offs

29:00 Personalization vs. business impact—what to fund and measure

33:00 By end of 2026: know your human plan, AI maturity, and new journeys

35:00 2026 prediction: the ROI vice tightens—agencies must be consultative

36:00 Closing advice: “Interrogate everything yourself.”

38:00 Wrap + where to find past episodes

39:00 Sponsor close: Typeface—see how ASICS & Microsoft scale personalization

**About our sponsor, Typeface**

 @typefaceai  is the first multimodal, agentic AI marketing platform that automates workflows from brief to launch, integrates with your MarTech stack, and delivers enterprise-grade security—named AI Company of the Year by Adweek and a TIME Best Invention. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

**Tags**

B2B marketing, enterprise marketing, customer experience, AI marketing, agentic AI, marketing ROI, sales enablement, Code and Theory, Michael Treff, Mike Linton, CMO strategy, marketing budget, personalization, Martech, Typeface

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