A CMO Confidential Interview with Kate Bullis and David Wiser, Managing Partners and Global Marketing Practice Leaders for ZRG Partners. Kate and David translate their extensive search experience to classify common mistakes into "movie themes" and share tips on how to recognize if you are directing or reading for a part in a disaster film. From "Play It Again, Sam," to "No, No, It's Really A CMO Role!" to "Death by Committee!" they describe the all-too-familiar plotlines and how to tear apart the hype from the facts. Hints: Look at the dashboard, listen to the questions and beware of the "Hands on the keyboard" role. Tune in to hear why companies should focus on outcomes versus qualifications and why you should always check your Zoom background.

What are the five bad “movies” CEOs and boards keep remaking when they hire CMOs—and how do you avoid starring in one? Mike Linton sits down with ZRG Partners’ Kate Bullis and David Wiser to unpack 2025’s CMO market, why early-stage hiring should rebound, and how capital and IPO activity reset expectations from “profit at all costs” back to growth. They break down the most common failure modes—chasing a playbook, hiring an “orchestra,” titling a demand-gen job as “CMO,” forcing marketing to “stay in its lane,” and letting committees kill momentum—and the exact questions candidates and CEOs should ask to surface scope, KPIs, authority, and alignment.

You’ll hear red flags like “hands-on keyboard,” why the KPI dashboard effectively *is* the job description, and how cross-functional interviews reveal whether a CMO will be a strategist or an order taker. David and Kate close with urgency discipline for searches and a three-year business-back plan for defining the role.

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, ZRG Partners, Kate Bullis, David Wiser, CMO hiring, marketing leadership, executive search, CEO, board of directors, hiring mistakes, KPI dashboard, hands-on-keyboard, demand generation, brand vs performance, org design, stay in your lane, death by committee, playbook vs framework, 2025 job market, private equity, IPOs, marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth vs profitability

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Chapters

00:00 – Welcome & show setup

01:08 – Meet Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)

01:32 – 2025 CMO job market outlook

02:56 – Where hiring rebounds first (startups vs. public)

04:24 – From profitability snapback to growth focus

05:35 – Theme 1: “Play it again, Sam” (playbook thinking)

06:48 – Frameworks over playbooks: why “fetch” fails

08:16 – KPIs as the real scope: the dashboard test

10:08 – Theme 2: “I want the orchestra” (do-it-all CMO)

12:44 – Red flag: “hands-on keyboard” and checkbox hiring

14:19 – Theme 3: “No, really, it’s a CMO role” (but it’s demand gen)

15:31 – B2B trap: title inflation and scope mismatch

18:25 – Measure what matters: aligning title, work, and KPIs

19:00 – Theme 4: “Stay in your lane” (the Yes Center)

20:20 – Sales/product-driven constraints and influence

22:00 – Theme 5: “Death by committee” (misalignment & vetoes)

23:18 – Fixing alignment: who decides and how

25:26 – Why bad movies still get made: urgency and drift

27:54 – The other mistake: lack of urgency in searches

28:43 – Funniest recruiting moments (Zoom era)

30:21 – Practical advice: define the next 3 years, then the role

31:29 – Wrap and where to listen

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