Mission Control Podcast

Mike has on Cam Wade this week! Cam found his way to being a Public Insurance Adjuster after having a background in sales, marketing & storm restoration. He protects contractors & homeowners from insurance agents taking advantage from victims of roofing damage. Mike & Cam talk about childhood, overcoming many obstacles and how life lessons get you to where you need to be.

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect!

==== ==== ====

Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK

Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr

Mike has on Ryan Fontaine of RoofHawk on the show! Ryan is INNOVATING the roofing industry with his AI technology which allows our technology to speak to us! RoofHawk enables the process of a roof inspection to be more accessible, safer, and more efficient. RoofHawk's AI has a drone to fly over a roof, instantly find damage, and communicates that back to the roofer for a seamless inspection with 0 risks. Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect!

==== ==== ====

Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK

Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr

On this episode, Mike has on Dmitry Lipinskiy, Chief Executive Officer of Directorii

Dmitry truly understands what contractors and homeowners want. He helps the biggest brands in the construction industry understand and reach their right audience.

Dmitry is a top innovative leader in the industry. He has changed the game and connected manufacturers, contractors & homeowners to benefit everyone.

Dmitry & Mike talk about success and failure, upbringing, being the best version of yourself, working out, and cold plunging?

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ====

Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK

Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr

On this episode, Mike has on Heather Hitchcock. Heather started as a gym owner and a top MLM performer within the whole company. In this episode, Heather is an OPEN BOOK regarding how she got started in roofing, her mission, her mistakes, and her overall growth of how she grew Royal Roofing to what it is today.

Heather & Mike dive into how it's ok to not have answers, connecting with like-minded industry leaders, and how she implements her knowledge from her MLM days to the roofing industry!

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect!

==== ==== ====

Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK

Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr

==== ==== ====

ep 21

[00:00:00] Mike: Those losses. Breed character. And, and to your point about how you respond, right? What do you like most about being in the roofing industry? Oh

[00:00:07] Heather: my gosh, I love this industry. Did I take any strategies, any concepts, any mindsets, mindsets from my time in multi-level marketing and apply it to my roofing company?

[00:00:24] Mike: So Chad Semanski, who would've thought that little Chad would be a, a common denominator between you and I having a conversation? Old chatty. Chatty. Yeah. Shout out to Chad over at O'Connor Roofing Small

[00:00:38] Heather: World. What a trip. Yeah. I don't know if that'll tell you, but I decorated his face and traumatized him when he was like six years.

[00:00:48] Mike: Mm, . So for, for those of you just tuning in, which all of you are. Cause we just started, um, Chad is, he works for a client of mine, and he's a, he's a great guy, an amazing worker. And he hit me up about four months ago. He is like, you know, my cousin Heather. I'm like, I, Heather. Who? Heather Hitchcock. I'm like, I don't know Heather.

Well, you're friends on Facebook. Chad, I'm friends with a lot of people on Facebook. Doesn't mean I know them, which is weird. That's a whole conversation in of itself. I know , right? Uh, mark Zuckerberg says, your friends , you know, and then I see Heather popping up all over and I'm like, you know what? You should come on the podcast.

And, uh, , she voice texted me, oh, I know the worst message on Messenger, which, you know, in that moment, I'm like, okay. So either block her, um, one of two things. . Yeah. Or just don't engage, right? Uh, I don't, I don't know. Ignore, ignore. And then like, we had an entire conversation. It was, it was pretty amazing, um, as to see why you stand, where you stand on voice taxing my feelings on it.

And I think we both grew a little bit that day, so let's talk about it. I agree. Why do you, I agree. Why you, why do you choose to voice text?

[00:02:01] Heather: Yeah. So I used to cringe what I would see that stupid bubble thing. I'd be like, really? And then you see the time and I'm like, negative bro. Um, Siri makes me look insane.

And then I'm frustrated because I'm correcting myself. And so I just figure why not let them hear my voice, hear my tone, and there's no confusion. Okay.

[00:02:24] Mike: I mean, that's fair. That's fair. At what point, tell me why you hate it. Okay, go ahead. Okay, so you've got folks and, and if you're this person, it's fine.

It's just, I, I won't engage with you. Okay. No, it's not fine. , if, if you wanna talk to me, it's not fine. But otherwise, like I won't, you know, pass that you're, you know, go with God. It's great. Um, yeah. Later, you know, people where it is like perpetual voice messages, right? And the first one might be 17 seconds and there's a three minute voice.

Like, at what point do we decide I'm gonna fucking call you? Like, and let's have a conversation. I'm with you. Right? So, where do you go online? Where do you stop voice? Where do you stop yourself? And you're like, you know what? I'm just gonna call this person.

[00:03:05] Heather: Okay. I think we talked about this when we message, but I'm gonna just re throw this in.

My primary thing is convenience. Yeah. I mean, I got three kids. I'm blowing and going all the time. Sometimes I can answer a phone, sometimes I can't. Mm-hmm. , sometimes I can text, sometimes I can't, whatever. So I'm gonna get in where I fit in. Mm-hmm. . And if you can respond, great. If you can call me even greater.

If not, at least I've communicated what I need to.

[00:03:33] Mike: That's fair. Okay. So let's assume right. Kids are swimming, having a good time, right out there , or they're playing Fortnite or whatever it is that your kids do. And yeah, mom's got some time to herself, but it's still more convenient because for whatever reason you're doing shit around the house and you know, making food, whatever, that you just wanna voice text.

Is there ever a moment where you're like, I'm just gonna call this person?

[00:04:01] Heather: Probably they call me because I'm sending so many voice messages.

no, I'm good with it now. I've completely done a 180 and I used to judge people and cringe and now I lead off with, I'm really sorry. I'm the obnoxious voice texture. Well, at least you own it. I just go,

[00:04:20] Mike: at least you own it. Yeah. So , it's funny because you say people will call you, you feel somewhat similarly to how I feel with voice taxing.

Initially. Again, I've, I've moved off my hardline stance a bit since. Having this conversation with Heather initially about a few weeks ago, you're growing painting perspective, to be fair. So there was growth there, and I thank you for that. But you felt you're welcome. I feel like similarly about communicating via a Facebook phone, , as I felt about voice texting.

So why don't you share, whoa. Audience, why you feel, okay.

[00:04:56] Heather: Well this is probably more because I am a female and I actually don't talk about this like ever. Cause I'm not into the whole thing. But in regards to Facebook Messenger, dudes be weird. Mm-hmm. , and they'd be sending and calling. And so when I see that, it just makes my whole body go because I'm not interested

So by default, even though that was absolutely not the intent, obviously that's just a general thing for me and Messenger. Yeah. I'd rather give you my phone number. Knowingly and call me like a professional. Sure. Versus think I need to hide

[00:05:38] Mike: my phone number 50 to 20 more leads. Like Exactly . Right. No doubt.

I really wasn't sure if you were kidding or not. Yeah. So, yeah, for those of you here, that's what I messaged Heather with initially was, you know, are you able to handle 15 to 20 more leads? And she's like, well, I don't know you well enough to know if you're fucking with me or not. It's true. Cause if you aren't fucking with me, I will block you.

That's exactly right. And I'm like, chill. Let's everybody, let's not overreact. I'm just kidding. God. No, you're right. Yeah. And I look at it as so being aware, right? I'm aware that Heather's a female and I'm a male. And I'm also aware about how fucking weird dudes can be, especially in dms. You know, I didn't call her, but if I were to, it would be because I feel like that would be more appropriate when we're already engaging on Messenger than to say, Hey, can I have your number?

Cuz to me, that seems fucking weird. Right. I can appreciate that. Yeah, so it's, uh, all these like, uh, these customary things within society and, and the way people view them, I find it fascinating. I really do. It is fascinating. You're, uh, , you're in a big competition right now, aren't you? I

[00:06:50] Heather: am apparently. What

[00:06:54] Mike: Z roofs they chose you along with?

Four. Five others? Five others. Five others. So six total, now six. Was this the first one you installed? This

[00:07:06] Heather: was not only my first DRA roof, this was my first metal roof ever. . It was beautiful. Um, I'm really blessed and I got a really cool project in a really prime location, so it definitely helped the cause.

But yes, my manufacturer's rep. Actually harassed me to submit the picture. And then I had no idea. It was,

[00:07:36] Mike: made me laugh. I mean, the roofing system's beautiful. That house is fucking gorgeous. It's pretty, yeah. Yeah. So it's, thank you. It's like perfect suit. It's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. What is it, what, what is it like if you are, if you're taken on a project where, and, and maybe you've, have you done metal roofs outside of your company before?

Have, do you have any experience or have No,

[00:08:00] Heather: and I and I, no, I don't. Um, but I'm not just like this reckless person out here, so I am aligned with incredible resources. I don't bite off anything. I can't chew. This was something I had a team of people to teach me through, of course, but it was my first metal roofing application.

[00:08:20] Mike: Yeah. So like where my mind goes is like, I would imagine, and this is just me thinking through this, trying to empathize with your, with your situation. I would imagine that regardless of the resources that I have at my disposal, if I've never done something before, I'm gonna be pretty, and I mean, I feel like the stakes are high.

That's a pretty big project from what it looked like, right?

[00:08:40] Heather: Crazy high. So many stressful components that you wouldn't even think about it.

[00:08:45] Mike: I, I feel like I would be anxious, really anxious even though, you know, I would be confident. I think it would be, I would be equally anxious until it we're done and like we got to the finish line and it's like, it's, let's get it

[00:08:55] Heather: right.

Michael. I've never thought I had a legitimate heart attack more times in my life. Than like the nine days that I built that roof. So it's actually really fitting. I hope we win this. The more I'm thinking about it. It's been a few months, I've forgotten how traumatizing it was. No, no. It was very challenging.

Um, it was intense. It was stressful, but again, I felt like I had the right resources and I'm kind of that mindset of like, let's do this. I believe I'm at least equipped to figure it out. Sure. And I have great people in my corner. It's super stressful.

[00:09:33] Mike: Stressful . I mean, it's, it's amazing to have quality people that you can depend on to lean on in those types of situations.

Right? Like they say like, network is net worth. Net worth is network. Whatever the hell they say, they say something. Yeah. But there's truth to that. Something cool, right?

[00:09:52] Heather: 1000%. Yeah.

[00:09:55] Mike: Hmm. Yes. Interesting. Yep. When did you found your company?

[00:10:01] Heather: Uh, September, 2020. The height of Covid.

[00:10:05] Mike: The height of Covid. What was that like?

Crazy dude.

[00:10:11] Heather: Crazy.

[00:10:12] Mike: Let's elaborate.

[00:10:14] Heather: Yeah, so I obviously just got into roofing a couple years ago, and prior to that had zero industry experience. Why is that obvious? I did, oh, I, I guess I say obvious, but I guess it's not obvious. Any who unbeknownst to you. I've only been in, no, but, um, I, I'm new to the industry.

How about that? And my family has a construction background, but nothing to do with roofing. I was in the fitness industry and I had a gym, a really successful gym, and I also worked in a multi-level marketing company.

30 years in business. All of these things, willable to your children, residual income for life, wonderful things. And to give you context, 600,000 distributors. I'm top 150 income earners. Now I'm only telling you that because we get an email that says, Hey, get on this zoom. And we get on this zoom and then we're told, guess what?

Six weeks? You're losing all your income. So I was very quickly forced to refigure out what I was gonna be when I grew up. I had a buddy who had a small residential roofing company. By that I mean, um, maybe he did seven roofs a year. I had no clue. Roofing was a thing, and that was really how I got involved in the industry.

I was sitting on a job, little roof, running back and forth to Home Depot for him. He promised to pay me 600 bucks. And I was like, sweet Jesus. I've hit the, the promise. And just really fast. That was an insurance claim. He, I'm fast forwarding, you know, for the sake of time, but he showed me the scope of work and he showed me how much insurance was paying to replace the roof.

And then he told me how much it was costing him, and it was like, game over. I'm gonna sell roofs, because I had literally lost everything very fast and went from being on top of the world to the, the bottom real fast. So roofing became it. I went to work for three contractors over the course of nine and a half months.

Super shady people. I'm trusting them to train me. Um, I knew nothing, but I figured out very fast that people were not honest and had no integrity and I just wasn't about that life. And so I lived in a community where Hale had hit almost a year prior. I had no clue. Filed a claim on my own home, used that money, um, to invest into a program to teach me about how to, how to roof.

And obviously lots in, in between, but um, that was really how it started. And yeah, the height of C O V.

[00:12:53] Mike: Do you think that it was, it was, I'm sure it's, it was very nerve wracking in the beginning to start during a pandemic, but do you think that that was a detriment in the very beginning of your business, or do you think that that was a blessing and really helped you?

It's

[00:13:07] Heather: so weird because it was like, I was getting into such a new industry. I had no experience or litmus test to like gauge, so nothing seemed weird. Like it actually seemed weird that I had so much momentum at the height of something that was not very momentous. Sure,

[00:13:27] Mike: yeah. Yeah. So we had a lot, I've a lot of clients and many of, some of them were like shaken and like, uh, you know the uncertainty, right?

It's like we're in the early March and like people start shutting everything down and people can't leave the house. It's like, fuck pump the brakes. Other people were like, double down. double down on everything we're doing. There's gonna be opportunity here. People are gonna be sitting at home and I mean, a lot of people did really well.

Um, but it's nerve-wracking. You know, you don't know what's gonna happen, how long things are gonna happen for, I mean, I'm in New York, so we couldn't leave a fucking house for like a year and a half. Yeah, it was crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:14:07] Heather: Well, when you say it like that, you know, I remember now there were a couple months where I had all these adjuster meetings were legit, they wouldn't even come because of Covid.

And so the roof, I mean, they were damaged roofs, but I was just having to show photograph proof and roofs were getting bought. So again, this was my first, you know, encounter with roofing.

[00:14:26] Mike: This shit's easy, .

[00:14:30] Heather: But I also just started, I had no, you know, we were joking about Chad, you know, I didn't even realize Chad did this until I started roofing because I never, I didn't know roofing was such a thing, and that sounds so dumb, but I just assumed roofing was like, Roofing.

I, I, there was a stereotype attached. I never thought it was a thing. Hmm. What's that? Stereotype? Stereotype? Roofers, in my area, the stereotype is like, conmen Conmen. That's the stereotype.

[00:15:01] Mike: It's so, I didn't think it was same from, same from marketing. Marketing, yeah.

[00:15:07] Heather: But I didn't know, like all the people, you know, like the John Cex and, and the Adam Bens Smiths.

I had no idea that roofing was such a thing and there was actually leadership and vision and, you know, like, so my mind was blown. I was just trying to survive financially. I didn't, I didn't have a vision or a company, so it was very different.

[00:15:31] Mike: Hmm. What was your first job? First job?

[00:15:35] Heather: My first job was what was my first job?

Um, what was my first job? Why can't I remember that? . I worked, um, in college I worked at a, wow. So I worked for my family's business, but I worked at a, um, what do you call it? What's the auction? A vehicle auction when I was like on the aisles real like high chaos. There's like 20 lanes and repossessed vehicles and nah.

But yeah, it was an auction recorder for repossessed cars. Hmm.

[00:16:09] Mike: Yeah, it was pretty exciting. How'd you like that? How did you like that? I liked

[00:16:13] Heather: it. Yeah. It was intense. I'm an intense person, so I, I kind of jive with intensity.

[00:16:20] Mike: If you were to give yourself your today's self were to give your 15 year ago self some advice, what would that piece of advice be? Oh

[00:16:29] Heather: my gosh. I would give that person so much advice. Um, you know, it's, I think that so much of my problem. that started when I was a young kid, stemmed from seeking approval from people that, I don't mean this like disrespectfully, but like we have this like innate thing in us to like be liked by everyone.

Sure. Or be accepted. And if we aren't, then we take it on and like there's this real reality that like, we're a bunch of people and we're not all gonna love each other. Right. It's okay to not be liked by everyone. Mm-hmm. . But I think at that age, um, really seeking the approval of people and thinking things were so much more important than they really were, would be a big thing that I would talk to myself about

[00:17:22] Mike: Big.

I I think that that would be a productive and impactful conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. It's interesting and it's interesting what social media has done, you know, with that perception, cuz I feel like it's kind of magnified a. You know, and perpetuated it. And everyone, you know, everyone aspires to be that, that person they see with the perfect life on social media, it's like, yeah, they're, believe me, they're taking L'S every day too.

Say that again. , right? Like, yeah, they don't, they don't show it on their stories. Um, but they're taking plenty of Ls. So, no, be careful. Just be careful.

[00:18:04] Heather: No, for sure. I, um, in fact, when I owned my gym, I, I had it very intentionally in a community that was, um, what's the word? Affluent, right? And a lot of people that put on these, like, you know, keeping up with the Joneses and you gotta have the picture perfect.

And anyway, um, I had a, a hard season of life at that time, but I learned, I was ex, everyone exposed to me that every single person has some thing going on in their life, in their family. Everyone has a thing. So, You can't, you can't trust what you see as that kind of stuff.

[00:18:42] Mike: Yeah. And I, and it's interesting because I don't think that like a lot of people intentionally, I think, I think there's definitely people that mislead that make it seem like they're, you know, they're perfectly coping with everything.

Nothing's bothering them. But I think a lot of other people will, are willing to talk about some of the stuff. And maybe it's not online, but maybe it's offline. But I think that people have a tendency to take a look at somebody that they admire and just assume like, their life is perfect. Right? Like, I wanna be like this person, cuz like, look at 'em, they're just fucking slaying life.

Like meanwhile they could be more depressed than they've ever been. Right. Um, been there same. Yeah. So it's like, so it's like, it's, it's always, I don't wanna say fascinate, but it does kind of fascinate me honestly. It's like, why, why do we feel that way? Why, why? Just because we, we admire something or someone that we assume everything's perfect.

Perfect. Uh, just because of that. Yeah. I don't have answers. I've got questions though. I've got plenty of questions . Me

[00:19:42] Heather: too. Me too,

[00:19:43] Mike: brother. Me too. So you talked about some tough seasons. Yeah. Hmm. Let's talk more about toughness and those seasons of toughness. Uh, what, what does that look like for you? Oh my gosh.

We got time, honestly. Do what? We got time. We got time. We

got

[00:20:01] Heather: time. We got time. We got time. I mean, where do you wanna start? Because I, I mean, my, my middle name prior to about two years ago was Tough Seasons .

[00:20:11] Mike: No, it's only real if it's set it on your Facebook profile. Like Mike's School of Hard Knock, Stearns Stearns.

You would

[00:20:19] Heather: actually, you want me to make you laugh? Yeah. About my middle name. Oh, please. Okay. So my, I just took my middle initial off Facebook because Okay. I am 42 years old and I just. Got tuned on to this. My friends just said, Heather, do you realize what your name says? Okay. Do you know my last name?

Mm-hmm. ? Mm-hmm. . Okay. Say my last name. Hitchcock. Hitchcock. Hitchcock. Okay. My middle name is just the letter. S like Sam. S No. Period. Okay. Visualize. S. S and then Hitch. The first three letters are hit, so S and hit. Okay. My whole life, everyone's reading my name as Heather Schock and I have no clue. So

[00:21:05] Mike: sounds

[00:21:06] Heather: trustworthy.

I'm having my middle name on. At some point of that story was the middle name. Confirmation.

[00:21:11] Mike: Yeah, just be, just beware guys and gals of what your name says when you put it together on Facebook. You don't want to end up like Heather Schock here. My

[00:21:19] Heather: Instagram handle. I was. And then it's like when someone says it and you see it for the first time, then you can't unsee it.

I'm like, how have I gone my whole life and never seen this ?

[00:21:30] Mike: Who, who pointed this out to you? My girlfriend. We got a shout out. What's her name? Joy. My girlfriend Joy. Shout out to Joy Chy. Not all heroes wear capes. Wear capes. No, man,

[00:21:41] Heather: she saved me. So, tough seasons. Um, I mean, you know, so honestly when, when the MLM went under it was really tough because, you know, I mentioned, um, a little bit about my backstory, but I had started all of this, you know, as a single mom and I got married and, um, I got, all of this was mine prior to getting married.

And in the divorce I gave my gym away thinking I would have advo Avocare for life. Avocare was the MLM I was involved in. And, um, when that happened, . It was like everything, just because I had, you know, my, my identity was wrapped up in my gym and my identity was ma wrapped up in being married. And my identity was wrapped up in being an avocare diamond distributor.

And like within a matter of, I don't know, 18 months, like I lost everything. Everything. And I'm a tough person. I've been through hell my whole life has been hard. And it wrecked me, dude. It destroyed me. Like it was like, that was it. Like I had lost my desire to live. I had no hope. I thought that, um, I never saw myself being able to rebuild even like a decent life, let alone like a really prosperous and blessed life.

And so it was just a really hard season. I was, I had been self-employed for so long, I didn't even know like what to do. Like I had so many skills, but I have been self-employed for 11 years. Like, my resume, what do you do? You know? So it was a really, really hard season, but it was, um, a beautiful season that.

Segued, you know, here to roofing. So,

[00:23:18] Mike: so how did you cope with that at your, at your worst?

How did I

[00:23:26] Heather: cope with it? I took a lot of Adderall, loved Adderall. No, but I mean, I did, I took a lot of Adderall. Adderall, um, I numbed myself pretty, pretty seriously and got myself into pretty bad shape. Um, not realizing with Adderall I got to a place where I had no desire to do anything. And so I started taking this Adderall cuz this was to help me and it did.

And then it was like all of a sudden it was, I'm like strung out on Adderall and that's what it took to get me outta bed cuz I was so depressed and then I was just this hot mess. So it was, um, unhealthy coping mechanisms, the show.

[00:24:04] Mike: Hmm. Is that the, the only kinda substance abuse that you've had in life?

Yeah, I,

[00:24:11] Heather: I quit drinking, um, three years ago. . I have a zero judgment when alcohol goes into my body and I make really poor choices, and I don't have the ability to like make sure like it's just a 50 50 shot. So I put that down because it's just not good for me. Um, but you know, for me, all the substances were kind of, but a symptom.

It wasn't like, I've never, like, oh, I need, I need alcohol today. I, I go months in, don't drink. It's just when I drink, I act like a total asshole . Um, so the only other word I know how to use to describe it, but, you know, stupid, totally stupid. So those are the things I just, when I. Started to get healthy and intentional about how I live my life.

It was like, okay, these things serve me. None. Only terrible consequences have come from, you know, this. So I got to that point where I was just evaluating all the things in my life and like, this serves me, this serves me. Okay. You know? So it was like, let's, let's get that outta my

[00:25:12] Mike: life. Yeah. I can relate with the alcohol thing.

I, um, I stopped drinking like four years ago and then during Covid I drank for like four months straight. I stopped drinking cuz not only did I act like an asshole, but I couldn't stop drinking. Right. So it's like, okay. Starts off with, okay, well we're gonna have a couple beers, and it's like, well, I might as well get a bottle of Titos, you know?

Next thing you know, four months goes by, you've drank every day. Every day. Wow. Um, and you feel like shit. Why do you feel like shit, Mike? It's cuz you're fucking, cuz you're doing things that you know are not the right thing and you're acting in a way that you know is not your best. So it creates that like, cognitive distance, I think is what those professionals call it.

Right? That anxiety that's like, fuck. Um, so then I stopped, uh, and everything's been great since I'm kidding. Uh, still, you know, life is tough and you're always, you're always gonna, like, I, I think that's important to highlight, right? Like no matter you know, how many right choices you make, there's gonna be things that you struggle with.

But that's good, right? There's like, and then that's where you start like looking at like eustress and distress. Like if my stress today is figuring out, you know, how am I gonna get another salesperson in here? Or how am I gonna get that admin assistance that I need to get my company to the next level?

That's a much better situation than trying to figure out how I'm gonna function without eating a handful of opiates, which was my struggle 10 years ago. Or you, in your instance, like, I can't get outta bed without eating a couple adderalls. So like that's distress for sure. Sure. And disclaimer, I'm not, I'm not a shrink.

I've never studied medicine or the, the body, but I feel like that's pretty intuitive to feel like, you know, there's a distinction between good stress and bad stress, and one is good one's bad, so,

[00:26:48] Heather: yeah, no, you're right. Yeah, that's, I didn't know, I didn't realize that about you. Not that I would know that, that kudos to you.

Good on you.

[00:26:55] Mike: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you too. It's, uh, you know those, huh? It's, it's crazy how these things unravel, unravel, and it's like, it's obvious in hindsight how it happened, but like, in the thick of it, think of it, you know, it's, it's not so obvious and it's uh Hmm. Weird.

[00:27:15] Heather: It is weird. And, you know, it, it's just a thing I don't like, I'm not saying this as like an absolute, like I don't, I'm with people that drink all the time.

It's a, it's not a thing to me, right. I'm just talking about it per se. In relation to people, like say you and I, you know now, and I'm sure you could probably relate, you know, I come across. So many incredible high level, top performing people that have a similar story and battle, you know, and I just think about more so the people that have just stopped for whatever path reason they have, but then you look back on how it could have looked very different had you not, and what the legacies and those people that they do, you know, wouldn't be here had they not, and just the power of alcohol and drugs.

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[00:28:02] Mike: Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. It's, uh, it's tough and especially when you're, you're in it, it's, it's really challenging and it's like, you know, hopefully those people that are struggling, you know, you find the support that you need and the motivation that you need to, to, to address it and, and move in a better direction for yourself.

Yeah. That. It's not easy though. Not easy, but my dms are always open, so for what it's worth, reach out. I'm happy to talk. So mine too, buddy. Um, man, crazy world we live in. It really is. It's so interesting, like I think about how many poor choices I've made in life. It's a lot a, lot's, a lot . How do you, how do you f I think it's important for us, for me personally, it's important for me to understand things that I'm doing right.

But it's almost like it's more important to understand the things that I'm not doing right. But then it's like a balance between like not beating yourself up, right? To try to try to improve. Improve, but you don't have to beat yourself down. How do you master moving through life in an optimal way to where it's like you're working to be better, but you're enjoying the victories.

Like have you found a successful way to do that? So,

[00:29:25] Heather: I just have a lot of experiences that have shaped my thoughts on all of this. So part of my story, um, since college up until 2019, I've been arrested for DWI five times, which is kind of a lot. Um, in Texas, if you've been arrested three times, you go to prison for two to 10 years.

So when the whole Avocare thing happened again, I got my last DWI number five. And, um, I thought I was going to prison. Like for real, for real. It was actually when I started my company, everything was happening at once and I'm, you know, mom and dad to my kids. So there was just a lot at stake. And, um, I got to a place where I was so sure what was happening for my future and I just decided like, let me just do my best to prepare and we'll just deal with it as we get there.

And for two and a half years I was just preparing. Preparing. Anyway, long story short, The court, the day they decide my hearing, my sentence, they actually dismissed my case. Like no reason, no evidence, no strategy. It was out of the blue that they dismissed my case. And when something like that where you think for two and a half years that you're going to prison like you are really preparing, um, it became clear to me in that moment that like no matter what, nothing I tried to do, didn't do, like whatever your beliefs are is gonna happen.

My personal beliefs right, were God literally saved me, right? He saved me and rescued me because I didn't deserve that. I was straight up guilty. And so in that moment, just everything shifted for how I like view things and. . I don't have an outlook of like everything's perfect and positive, but what I've learned is crap is gonna happen all the time.

How you respond is what changes everything that happens in between the crap happening. Does that make sense? Oh yeah. Your response is everything. So understanding that like things are gonna happen, I believe that you're kind of, your destiny is al already mapped out, so you just do the best thing you can, responding the right way, and everything's gonna be okay.

And when you have that mindset, at least for me, it's just easier to endure the things. Like, I know there's not gonna be anything. I'm not gonna be able to after a moment like that, it changes you.

[00:31:57] Mike: Hmm. Very interesting. I know. I like it. I know. Yeah. Piggybacking off what you said before about, you know, so many people that are at such a heightened level success and are just thriving.

Being in situations similar to like what we talked about or dealing with some sort of, some sort of craziness that they've had to persevere through. It's like the, you know, those, those losses breed character and, and to your point about how you respond, right? You can lay down and, and be defeated and be a victim, or you can push through, bite down on your, on your mouthpiece, take the shots that life's gonna throw at you, and then, you know, throw back some counter punches.

Counter punches, right.

Yeah. I like that. Yeah. What do you like most about being in the roofing industry? Roofing industry? Oh my gosh,

[00:32:48] Heather: I love this industry. I love roofing. Um, I mean, I'm not gonna lie, like the income has changed my life, right? So freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. Um, it has allowed me to just do what I want with my life just for children and all of that, right?

Like, we work hard, but it allows you to be able to play hard. I have met. It's kind of different at this stage of life, right? To like meet new friends and like find people that you actually wanna like talk to and get to know. That has been, honestly, one of the coolest things is I've just met awesome people that like I never would've met ever, ever, ever.

And especially like just in the real world, you know, like you would think. We have nothing in common. And I've just, just very cool people, very successful, brilliant people that I am super blessed to kind of get to rub elbows with. Why are you laughing? Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite? Oh man, I got, so listen, the CAC family is probably my favorite.

And Vanessa? Yeah, they're, they're, they're, they are. Um, just because coming in, you know, someone. first, obviously I was, you can't not follow John and know how knowledgeable he is. And there's a lot of people in here that proclaim to be all of these things. And I really don't care. I just am trying to find the people who are legitimate, you know?

Cause I'm trying to learn, like I'm honestly trying to get better. And John was like right away. And so I started going to his classes and following, and then connected with his wife. And they're just great people, so it's easy, easy, easy to like them.

[00:34:22] Mike: I like John too. John too. Yeah. They're good people. Yeah.

Hmm. What has been the biggest challenge since September 20 when you opened your, your roofing business? Oh man.

[00:34:39] Heather: The biggest challenge with my roofing, it's probably not, not the, not a fun answer you wanna hear. My biggest challenge has been suppliers and manufacturers, representatives doing what they say they're gonna do.

Mm. Is that what you

[00:34:53] Mike: were expecting to hear? I mean, I could see how it'd be challenging. I, I get into

[00:34:59] Heather: this industry and I'm like, this is a lot of money I'm spending with you weekly. A lot in the real world. It's obviously other people's money, right? Right. But if I'm spending 45 grand a week and I'm getting the service, I don't understand, I do not understand the mindset.

There are so many people in this industry that I'm just like, what?

[00:35:18] Mike: But yeah, suppliers. Suppliers and manufacturers reps. And I didn't, I did not see that being your answer. But yeah, I think it's, I think it's real, you know, it's, it's one of those things where, I don't know, maybe in the grand scheme of things in your market, you're a smaller fish that makes them less money.

But like, I, I don't know. I, I've made videos about like, if you're gonna work with smaller companies or you're gonna take on a job at a, a smaller profit margin for whatever reason. Right, right. You should still do that job and provide that same experience, that same level of service as you would if you were making twice the profit margin or your typical margin.

Don't do a shit job just because you're making less money. Don't fucking do it. Fucking do

[00:36:05] Heather: it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, and we've figured it out now two years later, but it was a struggle and it was a common struggle, a common theme amongst, but yeah, I mean, people are people.

[00:36:18] Mike: People are people. People are people.

And that's all they'll ever be. People will ever be . Actually , we're drop dropping some fire here on the Mission Control podcast and by the, by our people, by the way, this episode 26 with he, Heather Hitchcock, sponsored by Roofer. Thank you roofer. And thank you to the audience for allowing this behalf. We, we just started rolling and I never even got to, to introducing you or anything like that, so, um, yeah.

Fuck we started talking about Chad. We can't always be perfect though. It's fine. Like there's always a, an element of human error that's, you know, in play and, uh, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah. So if you listen to this point, you got the intro. Congratulations. If you reach far enough down in the bag, there's gonna be a little prize in the bottom of the cracker jack bag.

So, little, little temporary, temporary tattoo. How many podcasts have you been on? Um,

[00:37:15] Heather: like, I think the most in roofing ever. . I made a joke, like I actually made a post and I deleted it today. I was gonna, cuz I didn't want people to get offended, but it was like, how to become a roofer. Number one, get a ladder.

Number two, start a podcast. A podcast . Um, no, uh, probably like 12. 12.

[00:37:37] Mike: What have you found to be the most interesting question that you've gotten while being on a podcast?

[00:37:43] Heather: Good question. My most interesting question has been, What did I take? Did I take any strategies, any concepts, any mindsets, mindsets from my time in multi-level marketing and apply it to my roofing company?

Hmm. It was a really, I was actually like, it was, it was a good question.

[00:38:03] Mike: What's the

[00:38:03] Heather: answer's? The answer? Well, the answer was yes. That's why it was a great question because there's so many things that I have brought in, whether you like MLM or not, and this is somebody who's not really a fan, understandably, but like, one of the way, one of the things I'm doing is in my previous, um, uh, experience with AdvoCare, so we were paid five different ways.

There were five different income streams within our job. So, um, there was a lot of motivation for people to do better, so, Two ways I've implemented that or we're implementing. And um, one is with recruitment. So my salespeople are motivated to recruit good people, and then there's a percentage, there's a compensation figured, calculated based on their sales, so on and so forth.

So it's almost like a leadership bonus per se, an override. So there's some different comp plan things that I've stolen from MLM that I think are super beneficial. They help me and they help my people. So it's been one of the ways, yeah,

[00:39:10] Mike: I could see. So when you, is it specific to a referral or somebody that they bring in themselves or help?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like if you hire a sales rep, you wouldn't put them under them in and have the same structure. I'm not gonna,

[00:39:25] Heather: I'm not, well, I wouldn't, I'm not gonna give them percentages of compensation if I'm recruiting them. But if they're recruiting someone, gotcha. That they're gonna help build a roofing business with.

then they're gonna get a percentage of that person's sell, so long as they keep up with their end of the bargain, obviously.

[00:39:44] Mike: Hmm, hmm. That's interesting. Interesting. I know. So how well has that worked thus far?

[00:39:53] Heather: So we're just implementing, I just started hiring people. I've only had one sales guy. Um, and so it was a matter of getting everything in here on paper to be an actual system.

So that's been what's happening and, um, it's literally rolling out, like right

[00:40:08] Mike: now. Easier said than done. Right. Taking all this shit from up here, up here. Way easier than done. . Yeah. Way. Uhhuh. . Uhhuh. . What's the most interesting interaction that you've had with somebody in the roofing industry? Hmm.

[00:40:29] Heather: The most interesting, gosh, I've had.

like, gimme a little more direction

[00:40:36] Mike: for better or worse, a situation that you walk away from or something that comes top of mind when I ask you that question where it's like, fuck yeah, that was awesome. Or That was awful. That was awful.

[00:40:46] Heather: Okay. Um, I actually did a podcast with Eric Obert and um, we had an encounter a year prior that kind of left in some awkwardness.

We just had different beliefs surrounding some things, and it was a very known thing. And, um, you know, he invited me to be on his podcast and I kind of balked for six months because I knew we had these differences. And I, I, my problem was the first time I met him I was very new and I was a little intimidated, and so I wasn't all the way to my true self.

And when I said my true self, we realized we did not agree. And so I was like, well, I don't want to go on this podcast if I don't get to be my true self. And so I got to go on my, on the podcast, be.

Respect, established, um, in a very awkward circumstance that it was cool. So it was that, that would be that thing. It was a good, good thing. And Eric will smile if he watches and hears this .

[00:41:53] Mike: Yeah. So always be yourself. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think, uh, diversity of thought is incredibly important in society, in social circles and everywhere.

Right? Everywhere. Right. The world would be very bland and uneventful if we all had the same belief systems or bought in, subscribed to the same things and just co-signed what the next person said It would suck. Would suck.

[00:42:20] Heather: Yeah. Yeah. So why do people, most people seem, in my experience, to resist that.

[00:42:33] Mike: I think cuz like when you get the hot takes and you get the spiciness, it goes back to that attention thing, right?

So like that gra that makes people gravitate towards that conversation and side one way or the other. And, and ultimately that feeds people's ego is that they're, they're making an impact and they have a voice and that feels good to them no matter how toxic or benign it is. Right? Right. That'd be my take.

Be my take. Yeah. That's a good take. You see, I mean, you see it all the time. You see it all the time. Yeah. No,

[00:43:03] Heather: I, I do, that's why I said it like es especially as someone new to the industry, it's interesting to get in and there's cliques and you see the . It's like we can all have our own, you know, opinion and thing and we don't have to agree and we can still support each other.

So many people don't even know each other and they have opinions

[00:43:22] Mike: already, you know. Yeah. I posted something a long time ago and I was like, it's a guy there with like his shirt off and he is got a big white sign. Like we can agree and still be friends. You know, when I hear people like losing friends because of political beliefs, right?

Like, I lost a friend because he fucking, and I'm like, it's just a goddamn shame that you can know for somebody for a year, 10 years, 30 years, and have so much of a history with like, that's such a scarce thing in life. To have somebody in your life that you know, probably cares about you and you care about them.

And to lose that over something, like, ugh, I like this politician, I like this politician. Or, I think this is right, I think this is wrong. It's like, you know, understand, try to understand each other's beliefs and be respectful that not everyone's gonna align with what you want or what you do or how you think.

And like, that's okay. It's okay. Yeah.

[00:44:13] Heather: It's okay. You don't have to agree. You don't have to

[00:44:16] Mike: hate 'em. It's okay. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm trying to solve the world's problems one podcast at a time just by having these conversations. You are on your way, my friend. Feel it. Well add one page of the book every day.

That's it. Yeah. , that's it.

[00:44:32] Heather: Are you writing a book for real, or was that a joke? ?

[00:44:36] Mike: I, I don't know. I dunno. You tell me. Tell me. I don't know. I didn't know if there was a little, an Amazon best seller, Michael Stearns. It's got a nice ring to it. Ring to it. You never know. It's funny, I got a, I got hit up randomly on LinkedIn like four to six days ago and it was like, Hey, I worked for a publishing company.

I was just wondering, I looked at your LinkedIn profile and I, I'm impressed. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your accomplishments,

I'm like, well, I'm like, it's funny you asked that, cuz literally the day before I, I told a couple of my team members, I'm like, I'm gonna write a book. Gonna write a book. So her timing was impeccable. I know it's a can pitch and it's, I was like, it's funny you asked that. I was actually just talking about that yesterday.

She's like, well, what are you, what are you gonna write about? I'm like, I have no fucking idea. But you, you asked me a question, I gave you an honest answer, and that's all there is to it, is that I, I established yesterday that I'm gonna write a book. I have no idea about what, when, how. Um, but yeah, there we go.

So I will write a book eventually. I gotcha. It's my commitment to you. Yeah. And the audience, you get a book now, it might be a picture book, and that's fine. You got like baby steps, baby steps, crawl before you walk, walk before you run, that type of thing. Right. That'd

[00:45:56] Heather: be an easy one to start.

[00:45:58] Mike: Yeah. Yeah.

Right. You got any questions for me? Questions for

[00:46:01] Heather: me? Yeah. So how long have you had your company?

[00:46:05] Mike: Uh, couple years. Two years going on two years right there. Yeah.

[00:46:09] Heather: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And how, and you got connected to Chad through, you provide services to his boss. Yeah.

[00:46:16] Mike: His his employer.

[00:46:18] Heather: Correct? Correct. That's cool.

Yeah. Yeah. And where do you live? Buffalo. You are in Buffalo. I'm in Buffalo. This is the craziest thing to me. I didn't realize you were in Buffalo. I, I swore I looked at your profile and it said you lived somewhere else. Mm-hmm. Buffalo, New York. It's been nice to when I've changed my middle name. Okay.

[00:46:35] Mike: Gobi Bills go. Bills.

[00:46:38] Heather: I mean,

[00:46:39] Mike: yeah. It's, uh, listen, it's been a long time coming. It's been a long time coming. We've been patient. You've been patient. I

[00:46:45] Heather: hate the Dallas Cowboys. Only because, go back to that Super Bowl. Okay. We had a home of Buffalo Bills fans sign in our yard since we've been here. And my neighbors across the street, I think I was like 12 years old.

They came, rang the doorbell with Champaign. They were Cowboys fans. And I, I loved the bills. And from that moment on, I've hated the Cowboys. Mm. It's never changed. I hope they, I hope they do good. This, this year though, I'm rooting for '

[00:47:14] Mike: em. The Cowboys are the bills.

[00:47:18] Heather: No, the Bills . I still

[00:47:21] Mike: hate the Cowboys. So I, there was this funny like, uh, meme that was going around that I, I shared on Facebook.

I don't know if you saw it or not, but it was like on an official NFL letterhead. And it's like, due to, yeah, due to the concerns of people having home field advantage and the potential of it happen again, we've decided that we're gonna put the Super Bowl in Arlington, Texas, home of the Dallas Cowboys, so it'll never happen again.

I was like, yes, I was dying actually. I was like, is this for real ? Yeah. Yeah. And then I tagged the roof Tiger, uh, Ben Morrow, uh, friend of mine, friend of mine, former client, um, because he's a big Dallas guy and I'm like, what better way to just snob him a little bit? Oh man. Hashtag Bills mafia. Mafia. That's true.

[00:48:09] Heather: His statement too.

[00:48:10] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, I just, I just want us to see us win a Super Bowl, honestly. Just give us one. Have y'all won

[00:48:19] Heather: since Jim Kelly left?

[00:48:21] Mike: No, haven't even been. I mean, we just sniffed the playoffs for the first time in like 18 years, four years ago. I know. It was a, yeah, it was a, it was a tough couple decades for the bills.

I know. Yeah, I know. But you stay loyal. Loyal, yeah. Loyal. Should be, yeah. Yeah. Through thickness. And thin and thin, something like that. Something tell death do us part. I don't know. I love the bills. Yeah. Yeah. It's whatever. Fuck, whatever. What else you got for me? Come on. Shoot. What's the weather like right now?

It's fucking cold. Oh, actually, is it? Yeah. You

[00:48:56] Heather: know, we're, we're supposed to get some cold weather, but it's actually like 55 degrees out right now, so.

[00:49:03] Mike: We're going to, uh, we're going to Costa Rica in two weeks for my honeymoon. We got married in September, and this is how great my wife is. So shout out to Lacy.

We, um, the night of our wedding, the next morning we had, we woke up and flew down to the one industry, one model in Charlotte. Charlotte, where, um, I did like a speech with Tim Brown. And then with the next, you know, two days later we flew down to Florida for TJ's event Roofing ahead of the curve. You know, that was our little honeymoon.

I'm like, I'll make it up to you, I promise. And she trusted me. That's a good woman. Yeah. You better make it up for her. And she fucking deals with me like . Oh

[00:49:37] Heather: man. I mean, I don't know you very well, but just what I heard right

[00:49:41] Mike: there. She's a good woman. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, so where you guys are going to?

Costa Rica. Costa Rica. Yeah. We're going to the West coast of Costa Rica. Um, GU something. Guana. Coste. How long, what's that? Guana? Coste, I think it's called. Yeah, we're going, going for a week. Going for a week. Going for a week. And then, uh, I mean, I'm really excited. I hate flying. I hate it. Terrified of it.

You do Terrified of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's unsettling. I, I don't like the idea, I don't, I don't meet the pilot, you know, I don't know who you are, what you've been up to, up to. Like, I feel like I want, okay. So I like control. Okay. A lot of people like control. It's fine. Here we go. You know, when I'm 40,000 feet in the air, I feel like, you know, um, I'd feel in control.

I feel like I'd be more at ease if I understood some context of that person. How their day's going. How long did you sleep last night? Did you sleep last night? I don't wanna make assumptions. Are you intoxicated? Is this your first flight outta the simulator? I, I mean, you know, you gotta start somewhere. I ain't knocking you, but I don't wanna be at the Guinea pig.

Guinea pig.

[00:50:46] Heather: It's like my metal roof. You're like, did you tell that customer that that was your first metal

[00:50:51] Mike: roof? . So this full transparency, I've never done this before, but I got a great team of resources. Sign here. Hey,

[00:51:02] Heather: you know, I actually said, I was like, that guy didn't even freaking ask to see a one project

[00:51:14] Mike: Yeah, that's, uh, just the master closer baby. Yeah, that's, I was gonna say, it speaks odes to your sales acumen, so job well done. I

[00:51:22] Heather: mean, well done. I, I really like, all kidding aside, and, you know, a lot of people might roll their eyes and be like, oh, because she's a female, she's attractive. Like, obviously, yes, those things help, but you can't be a stupid idiot.

You know what I mean? Like, I actually am good at what I do and I'm, I connect with people and I'm relatable, so they trust me and I am, I do what I say. So it's easy for me in those situations to just get it done. And then I'm, you better believe if you give me a yes, I'm gonna make it happen. If I have a heart attack or not, it's happening.

Hmm. If

you

[00:51:55] Mike: say yes, We gonna figure it out. What, what have you found, I know that you said, we were talking about your website, going to a Facebook page, and you just recently got a, like a prototype I know. Homepage concept, which looked dope. Yeah. Um, but you said that, you know, you were so busy with stuff that was coming in without doing like, crazy advertising, things like that.

So like what, what have you found, especially in your first couple years, like if somebody were to come to you and say, Hey, I'm opening a roofing company tomorrow, um, and I need to find a way to get business. What did you find to be the most productive and what advice would you give them?

[00:52:28] Heather: Oh my gosh. Okay.

Have you ever read The Power Of Who? No. I look over here cuz all my

[00:52:33] Mike: books. Okay. Is it a picture book? The book? Pardon? Is it a picture book? Picture book? No. , no, no. .

[00:52:40] Heather: Green Blue. Um, the concept is like basically everything you need in every dimension is at ACC is as accessible in your life, be it relationships, people, you know.

Perfect example. , you know, here I am talking to you, you're connected to Chad Chad's my cousin. You know what I mean? Like, we're all connected and if it weren't for Facebook, we wouldn't realize it. Anyway, go back to the question that you asked me. What was the question? Cuz I

[00:53:05] Mike: just, um, so if you had somebody I'll got it.

Yeah. Sorry way to cut me off, Heather. Jesus. I know, I'm

[00:53:12] Heather: so sorry. Sometimes I forget what I'm saying and cuz I'm going senile also. That's okay. But I remembered. Yeah. Good. I really am. I just look good for my age, but I'm old . Okay. So I really did just forget. Okay. Low hanging fruit. Okay, listen, so I have 100% built my business off social media and I started these little videos.

The, the goal became really quickly, and it was very uncomfortable, was to get it out there that everyone that looks at my page, or my story, or my messages in the most non annoying way, puts me together with the word Ruth. . And so when they think roof or hear roof, not only do they think of me, but they want to tell people I know someone.

And that was my mission. And the ironic thing was I didn't even realize how like strategic I was being until I got to this other side. And now I'm like, I was very in, I was very unintentionally intentional, if that makes sense. I was intentionally trying to get traction and build present, unintentionally realizing to the degree that it was happening.

And so my advice to um, any person starting a company would be to use your social media, your network, your low hanging fruit, and get uncomfortable with videos with just very basic teaching concepts to teach your people something about their property, add some value to their life while connecting the fact that you roof to their little brain.

I don't mean little big brain

[00:54:47] Mike: to their big brain. Yeah. Nice catch. Yeah, I think that's, um, that's really good advice. It is. I, I know that it's really good advice and I think people would be, um, they would do very well by listening to that advice. Glad you said it. Not me. They're gonna listen to you.

They're not gonna listen to me. Third party crowd, baby . Yeah. So, yeah. So spend a bunch of money on social media ads. Is that what you're saying?

[00:55:15] Heather: Is that what you're saying? I, I've never spent a dollar. Mm. I know. I, I've, and look, I am, do not hear me say that these things aren't important and necessary. I'm gonna, I have a large network and I think I have, this is a gifting of mine, so I'm not saying that everyone should blow through, but you absolutely can be very intentional with organic strategy in marketing.

So, I've never bought a lead, not one. I've never paid for an ad. I just bought a website. Hmm. I know you don't want Not from a son. That's

[00:55:51] Mike: my truth. I haven't, not from a son. It's travesty, travesty, . Well,

[00:55:58] Heather: and and that was the whole thing. It was like, if it's not broke, why am I trying to fix it?

[00:56:04] Mike: That's a good point.

Point. It's a good point.

[00:56:06] Heather: You know what I mean? I'm gonna spend my, like, I value you, I value what you do, but I have exactly what I'm being solicited coming in organically to my phone that is turning into transactions. So why

[00:56:19] Mike: would I? No, and I love your approach to social media and I, I'm not a huge advocate for social media, especially hiring a company to do social media on your behalf.

Yeah. Because one of two things are gonna happen. You're gonna hire a company, they're gonna post 17 syllables with some bullshit stock photo that's gonna get reach six people. Thank you. You know? And your mom and cousin are two of 'em. Your wife, her husband's, the other one, and then like three maybe past customers.

Great. Okay. and you're just ashamed of the messaging that they're receiving, receiving on behalf of your brand . And you're paying for this, right? 500 bucks a month, a thousand bucks a month, whatever. Um, or you're gonna have a company that understands what it takes to make your brand messaging consistent across platforms.

Be clear and concise, the value of the assets, the photos, the videos, the content, and the amount that you're gonna have to pay them to get the ball, let's say across the goal line. Cause we're talking about football and I mean, at that point, like all they've gotta do is really publish it. So like work through those things yourself.

Um, you know, and you made a really good point about like connecting your audience with the fact that you do roofing while giving them valuable, I call it no strings attached content. Right? Give them value. Yeah. Give value, right? Yeah. Whether you're up on a roof and you see. A common issue, right. Um, you're up there marking off hail strikes, right?

This is what a hail strike looks like and what I'm doing, I'm circling this because this or whatever, right? And this is why it's important. The roof's not gonna fail tomorrow, but you know, it's not gonna last, you know, the advertised lifespan because it's compromised. And that's why your insurance may decide to help you with the cost of a new roof.

But you gotta pay your deductible. Deductible.

[00:58:07] Heather: Well listen to you. Were you in roofing

[00:58:08] Mike: before? No. No, no. Okay. No. Just, just talked to a lot of roofers. Heavily immersed in the roofing for the last six to eight years. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. But you know, and we do content, we do a ton of content, right? Like we write between four and 12,000 worth of content for roofing contractors per Per client.

Per client. And we've got 35 clients per month. Right. Wow. You know, we do keyword research, we understand what's important, what people are searching for, where our opportunities are. We pick our spots, then we write content about it. So, I mean, you have to, you have to understand what you're writing about, otherwise you're gonna sound like a buffoon and people aren't gonna be, aren't gonna be happy.

Right. This is true. You know, but just because you've, you know, take for instance, you, even if you have the best company in the world and whoever that is doing your marketing, and they're writing really good content, putting out blog content, they're doing outreach, that stuff's great. Like, you should take that content and make a video about it.

Yeah. You know, or I tell everyone, just think of everything you've ever been asked on a sales call. Every objection. Talk about it. And you know what, how do you overcome that objection and just make the whole intention of that video overcoming that objection. That's good. Find ways to differentiate yourself.

Like talk about how important it is as far as ventilation and attic and how that relates to this G f Golden Pledge Warranty. You're gonna sell them. That's gonna mean shit. If it's not properly vented and they install it Correct incorrectly, which is why it's really important to be careful who you hire.

Here's a link to check everybody's license and insurance. You can check the license here. Insurance there for where that applies. I know, you know, Texas is a little bit of wild, wild West, wild West. Um, do what you want. Yeah. But a lot of places like that can be very big and differentiating yourself, right?

Absolutely. Um, but you gotta do it. You just gotta do it. And then if you make, if you make that video and you have a piece of content on your, on your website, like a blog post. Blog post, put it up on YouTube, that video, and then embed that video into the blog post. That's all. And that'll help. Help move the needle.

Yeah. The needle

[01:00:09] Heather: help move it. Yeah. I need to, I need a venture into the YouTube shorts. I need to get.

[01:00:16] Mike: YouTube shorts are great. Shorts are great. Yeah. Yeah. Lot of exposure. Lot exposure. Yeah. Yeah. So this was amazing. So what, what is one last thing you wanna leave the audience with before I cut you loose?

Cause I know you're super busy trying to run a business and I don't wanna hold you, hold you.

[01:00:33] Heather: One last thing. You know, I, I, I feel like I'm probably like the annoying. I have all these like, emotion, you know, feel good, fuzzy, um, answers always that people are probably like rolling their eyes. But, you know, I'm super big on, um, mental health and, um, people not feeling stupid about struggling.

And so I felt stupid about my struggle for a very, very long time. And I'm a very capable, smart woman, but I was stuck thinking I wasn't because of a lot of things I struggled with. And so, . I like to put it out there that if people are struggling, I am an open, um, channel for help. And I like to encourage people to just keep going because I'm gonna tell you what, four years ago, honestly, when, you know, I wanted to take my own life, I did not envision my life looking even close to what it looks like today.

And, um, so I like to try to help people who might be stuck thinking that same thing, the future's bright, just hang on, you gotta walk it out and you gotta find people to help kind of walk with you. So I just like to throw that out there and not the most chipper message, but man, it's just what I'm

[01:01:54] Mike: about.

No, it's important. I think, uh, you know, you being compassionate, being willing to help, acknowledging there's an issue, and, and throwing a lifeline out there for those that need it and being willing to, to help through that. I mean, that's admirable. And I'll second that. You know, any, anything that I can do to help, you know, for sure reach out the world would be a better place with more compassion for sure.

So

[01:02:20] Heather: I, but I wanna ask you a question Sure. To go out, if that's okay. Yeah. I may ask the host. So being immersed in roofing for six to eight years, that's what she said, right? Yep. And all, I know you have lots of conversations with successful, probably lots of people that you've seen on all ends of the spectrum.

Sure. What would you tell someone like me moving into third year, newer in the industry? What would be some, some advice based on what you have kind of talked with people about something you would tell me to do, not.

[01:02:56] Mike: No, this is gonna be a long-winded answer. All right, so yo, you're doing a lot of the stuff that a lot of people aren't doing as far as like things that you can do internally, creating that content, getting in front of your audience and developing a ton of business.

Cuz a lot of the times what people think is, I'm just gonna pay for this outcome. Whether it's paying lead distributor or aggregator, whether it's paying a company like ours and like there's a path to success that way. Um, but there's also like if that's one cookie jar, two cookie jars, and you've got this third and fourth cookie jar just waiting to have the cookies plucked out.

Like, I'm a fat kid, I want all the cookies. So like, gimme some cookies outta all of these. Right. You know, so I usually try to implore people to do the things that you are doing on as far as growing organically. Not in the sense of Google, but in the sense of just kind of like gorilla marketing and just that gritty type of self-marketing, which I love.

Um, The other thing that I would say is like, that's likely not gonna be as scalable. So depending on, you know, what your goals look like, you know, maybe you cap out at 3 million or 4 million or 5 million or you know, and maybe you wanna get to 10. It's like, where, where do you make up that gap? And that's where I would say like, you'd probably wanna look into some sort of like inbound marketing to where you're piggybacking off the brand you've already built and then taking advantage of the opportunity of people that are actively looking.

Because you know, even in Texas where, you know, people are getting pounded, their door pounded daily by so many people. I don't know. I'll ask you. You door knock, right? Right. One, I've only door knocked once. Okay. Okay. What about your sales rep? Sales rep? He, they

[01:04:31] Heather: door knocked once too with me. We're, that's not the thing.

Yeah, it's kind of an anomaly. What's. At Royal Roofing. So all the questions don't really make sense or the answers to.

[01:04:40] Mike: Okay. So, so, all right, so then maybe I won't ask you, but I would have to assume. You have to assume there's a certain percentage of people, no matter how many times they have their door knocked, where they're not gonna buy a roof from somebody knocking out their door.

Yeah. Right. Maybe it's 10%, maybe it's 30, maybe it's 50, I don't know. But when you're in a, where exactly are you located? Located? Houston. You're in Houston pretty good population density, I'd imagine, right? Yes. A lot of people. So even if it's like 10% of the metro area, like that's a fucking huge number.

And like where are those people gonna go? Some will go to Facebook groups, some will go to Nextdoor, some are gonna go to Google because they go to Google for everything else. And there's opportunity there. And that's kind of why I got into the, into the world of digital marketing, because we can show you how many people are looking.

We can prove value. There's attribution. To say, you know what? We know for a fact that you signed, you know, 250 K in the last three weeks from, from our Google ad campaign. Like, I like that. Um, somethings not to do, don't, don't forego. This is a mistake I see made often, whether it's you're hiring a marketing company, you're hiring a salesperson, you're hiring anybody, don't forego your due diligence.

Be just because you're getting worn down on the fact that you don't have the time that you need or want in order to make the decision, or you're just worn down and looking. I think I was listening to the Roofing Machine, Martin Pedigree's book, um, I think last week, and he was talking about how he did a hundred interviews for the one position, which sounds fucking awful.

And I think it was for his inside sales position. Martin, if I'm fucking this up, I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. But you know, people get, you know, when you're running a business and you're likely, if you're doing a couple million revenue, you're still wearing multiple hats that you're trying to get off your fucking head.

So it's really hard when people don't show up for an interview or you interview seven people and they all suck. And it's like, fuck, what am I gonna do? I see people acquiesce and whether it's with a marketing company or it's with any type of employee to say, I'm just gonna take that next person without regards to how qualified or what my gut tells me.

Um, and that could put you in a really precarious situation. For sure. This is true, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, you know, and the other thing I would say to do is, And you, you kind of already professed that you're, you're working on is getting that shit outta your head on paper and be very systems and process oriented because I don't give a shit if there's not a process, there's not a system, there's not a process.

Shit's gonna get missed, it's not gonna get done. Even if you have a system and process, there's still that human error element to it. Yep. But the more things that you have to drive a consistent result, the more likely it is that that's gonna happen. So we're not trying to necessarily eliminate, we're not gonna be perfect, we're trying to move the needle to as close as perfect as possible.

One day at a time, one day at a time.

[01:07:32] Heather: This makes me happy. Yeah. This makes, makes me feel good when my thoughts line up with pros in the, in the game. It's encouraging.

[01:07:40] Mike: Well it makes me feel good when someone refers to me as a pro. So I mean, we both feel great. This is fantastic. Um, yeah, I, I'm really, I feel really fortunate and I'm very grateful for you taking some time to, to chop it up.

We get, we got off to a choppy start. The equipment wasn't, um, it's perfect now though. It is. Yeah. It's good. Yeah,

[01:08:02] Heather: it's good. I appreciate it. Yeah. I've enjoyed the conversation and, and appreciate being on with

[01:08:08] Mike: Awesome. And we going.

On this episode of the Mission Control Podcast, Mike has on Dylan McCabe. Dylan started his own roofing specific buying group after working in the healthcare industry with the same model. He found that he could apply the missing aspect to the roofing industry that worked so well in the healthcare industry. Dylan & Mike go over work culture, mindset, creating opportunities, and the power of believing in yourself. Contact us! [email protected] Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr ==== ==== ==== #contractormarketing #bluecollar #bluecollarlife #bluecollarworkers #contractors #contractormarketing #commercialconstruction #commercialcontractor #roofingexperts #roofinglife #roofingcontractors #roofingbusiness

On this episode of the Mission Control Podcast, Mike has on Chris Scoville, an expert in implementing & marketing payments within your roofing business. Chris shares his expertise in the industry, which includes implementing financing, promotion, sales, and monthly payments & the benefits of it all.

Chris & Mike dive into all other aspects of the industry, like marketing, branding, and creating relationships, and his 45 min sales training is GUARANTEED to work!!

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ====

Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK

Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr

==== ==== ==== #renovation2023 #newroofinstallation #digitalmarketingstrategy #commercialroofing #commercialroofing #roofingcontractor #roofreplacement #marketingstrategy #AscendDigitalAgency #flatroof #roofingexperts #roofinglife #roofrepair #roofingbusiness #campaignstrategy #salestraining #relationshipbuilding #commercialroofing #commercialconstruction #commercialroofer #contractors #contractormarketing #bluecollar #bluecollarlife #bluecollarworkers

We're gonna turn 52 next month. Yes. I'm gonna be 52 years old. I feel like, honest to God, Mike, I'm just getting started. No one's gonna be more competitive with me than myself. I'll tell you that. For people listening to us on the fence, get off the fucking fence.

All good. And lets this be a lesson. Learned that, you know, communicating with people, especially when things don't go as planned, is very, very important because now I don't have to resent Chris as a result of him being late. It's all good, brother. Much love. Thanks for joining us today. We've got episode 2222.

Yeah. And I stated that as a question. I think it's 22. We've done a lot of bonus content. I think we're gonna go with episode 22. Love It. Mission Control podcast, brought to you by your host, Mike Stearns, with a Sun Digital Agency, probably sponsored by the team at Roofer. Look. If you need things like instant roof measurements, clean and pristine proposals that will compel your perspective customers to buy hit up the team at Roofer, Chris Scoville and the Instant Estimator, that Instant Estimator tool that they've launched now is great way for them to, well we got one of those too, so we're not going to promote that on this here Podcast,

Best, Chris, Chris, shut the fuck up. No, um, instant Estimator as well. Um, you have the ability to send those quotes in the proposal, get e-signatures. It's fantastic. It really is, and I love the team at Roofer. And thank you guys for help bringing the Mission Control podcast to life. They're good people.

They're cult. I talk to Richie all the time about. people talk about culture, I think, because it's such a buzzword, right? I mean, I've got four books o over there on leadership and culture sitting in my bookshelf. But those guys exemplify culture. I mean, seeing them at Roof Con and how they interact with each other.

And we work with Danny and Pete a lot over there, and they just exemplify culture. They're, uh, he's, Richie's got a great way of hiring the right folks and then making them sticky to the company. I mean, my hat's off. I've known Richie for years, man, when they built that thing, it was a dollar and a dream man.

And, um, my hats off and my hair is off. Tori, Richie and the whole team over at Roofer knocked it outta the park, man, the old twofer from Scoville, the hat and the hair. So there you have it. It doesn't get much better than that . That's awesome. What do you do, Chris? I would say I, I help contractors. Um, sorry.

I help contractors as much as I can, so I mean, professionally. Um, my title is Executive Vice President at Service Finance Director of Business Development. I mean, it's a big title, I think at the end of the day. It's pretty simple. I wake up, I serve others, I give, I train, I help, I inspire, um, to help contractors make a better business.

I, I like to make people laugh. Um, I've been known to be pretty serious and intense, so, um, I'm sure I've made some people cry, but at the end of the day when I go to sleep at night, um, I feel pretty good about the activities that I do during the day to help other people and to give back to this community that we're building Is.

Is possible. And I just don't, I don't work with just roofers, I work with, um, if it goes in and on and around it, I work with it. So air conditioning, generator, plumbing, siding, windows and doors, pools, trees, like anything in this industry, anything goes. I know you and I travel in a lot of the same circles for roofers, but man, I'm talking one second.

I'll be talking to a roofer and the next second I'll be talking to an electrician that's, you know, looking to offer financing in his business. So my day's never boring and ball dull man at all. Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty good, uh, and succinct way of, of articulating what it is you do. And thank you for that.

You mentioned, uh, you may have made people cry. It was brought to my attention that you may have gotten teary-eyed today. Why don't you talk about. Yeah, so as we had mentioned, I, I had a, um, a podcast that I just came back. We filmed up in a studio, um, just up in North Palm Beach and at Signs Global they do outsourcing, and I know that roofers actually partnered with 'em as well.

I think we all know them things and them, they do great jobs, so they help, she summed it up this way. She said, we help roofers get time back so they can spend more time with their family and, and with their friends and not being so in their business. They have great outsourcing services that they provide, so, We are in the podcast and now I don't.

And just like this one, I have no idea what you're gonna ask me. I like off the cuff. It's just real, it's authentic. She said, so Chris, which would you rather have right now? Would you rather have more money or more time? And I said, more time, of course. And I looked down at my watch and I realized that today is the date of my anniversary of my father dying when I was 17.

And my immediately, dude, it just hit me. That just was like time. It was like, time is what's important in life because we can't get that back. However, money, man. Dude, I've lost it all. I've lost money multiple times in my life. Andm inmate it back. We can do that. We can reinvent ourselves. We can go work for a different company.

We can scrap a horrible thing that we're doing now and go out there and make it again. But when we watch the second hand go by on the watch, it goes by and it's gone. And, and, and. . You remember we were dinner and you're like, Hey, nice brightling, right? I looked down yesterday and I filmed my brightling and I did like this kind of like monologue time.

Time keeps moving forward. You can't ever forget. It's really kind of weird and kind of creepy, but it, we really can't. That thing doesn't, this thing doesn't stop. So what we do with it during the day, dude, that's it. You can either take action, help other people, or you could just go do nothing and not get that time back.

So, um, it got me just, it hit me right in the fields, man. I just was like, shit, I can't get my dad back. I can't get time back. And when I looked down and I saw the date, it all hit me all at once. And I was 17 years old, man. I had, I was then the man of the, you know, the, the, the man of the family, my, my mom and my sister.

And I was, dude, I wasn't a grown man at that age. I didn't know what the hell to do. So yeah, man, it got me all up on fields today. So, That podcast comes out and you hear Scoville get a little choked up. That's the reason why . It was a good one. It was. Well, it was definitely good. Well, thank you for being vulnerable and you know, I'm obviously sorry for your loss.

I lost my father at 18, so I can certainly empathize with, uh, to some degree with how you may feel, but you make a really good point. You know, time is a resource we have that's not replenishable. And I think that on a day-to-day basis, when we go through all the trials and tribulations that life has to, to send our way, which can be vast and plentiful.

It's, it's very easy, you know, to, to take things for granted, to forget Right. What matters, and to allocate that time in a way that's meaningful and fulfilling. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. How do you handle trying to, trying to spend your time in the most fulfilling way possible amidst all the chaos. I, I think I've become pretty committed to what's important and what's not important and what's worth giving up to gain in the long run.

And I know that's loaded, but my days are quite structured. I go to bed pretty much at the same time each evening. My wife's a nurse, so I know her schedule. She knows that I love to do what I do. Some people call it work. I don't know. I show up and do the same thing every day. I don't call it work because I love this shit so much.

It doesn't feel like work to me. Sometimes I have to laugh. I can't believe I'm getting paid for this. But anyway, I'm very structured. I get up early in the morning. I, I take my one dog for a quarter, a half a mile walk. I have my coffee. I read my 10 to 15 pages outta my book. I'm pretty, you know, I try, try to do some grateful things here.

I do my workout in the garage, so I'm very, I've taken time and I've learned how to maximize it. I get up early and it's not one of those self-help books. Oh, gotta get up early in the morning and sleep three hours a night. It ain't like that. It's. I know that I'm gonna get up at four 30 or five. I know that I'm gonna do certain things that I can maximize my time in the morning and do screw around on the internet, make a couple posts, read my book, take my dog for a walk, do the workout, eat a little breakfast, take the shower, and then boom, I'm in my office.

And of course we kind of live by calendars and stuff like that, and sometimes you're late for podcasts, but that happens. But like, I think just maximizing time there. So I know that it's Friday and my wife's on her way home that we're gonna wrap this podcast up. I'm gonna kind of slow down a little bit, other than I do have some special projects I've gotta get done as soon as we get this done.

And my wife will be understanding and forgiving. But when it's done in. , she's gonna be my priority. We're gonna get on our bikes tonight. We're gonna cruise the neighborhood, maybe have some wine or a couple beers, put some music in the back of the Beach Cruiser. We're gonna go look at lights. We're gonna go down to the boat area.

We're gonna have a pizza down on the, and I live on the Intercoastal here at Deerfield Beach. We're gonna go to Michael's on the Intercoastal and have a pizza together, cuz we've already planned that out. So I think taking your time, structuring it and using it well is, is probably is how I maximize time, you know?

Hmm. Yeah, that's a really good point. Now have you always been so routine? If not, when did it start? What was I guess the impetus for that? I don't think so. I think, um, I've had moments. I'm very, uh, there's times of the year I think that I'm just fucking hyper on. I'm hyper on right now. I'm on the fucking ball and when I'm up.

and it's all flowing. I go full bore with it because I know the flip side of this, there's some personalities to feeling and energy and drive that I might not be so on the fucking ball. So no, I don't think I've always been like this, but I do know that when I'm on, I'm on and I'm riding that train and I'm gonna take as much advantage out of being on that mode that I can, if I look back at life, I would say, yeah, I was, I've always been kind of structured, but I think that over the last five years I've really got things dialed in and people are like, dude, you're gonna turn 52 next month.

Yes, I'm gonna be 52 years old. I feel like, honest to God, Mike, I'm just getting started. I feel like the 50 years that I lived was an awesome warmup. I've had tremendous losses that most people would be like, what? I've had tremendous start overs when you like you lost everything. I've had divorces. I've lost relationship.

I've lost loved ones. I've had to move 19 different times in my life. I've done a lot in the first half of the game, but I feel like when I turned like 49, my wife started making some major changes, right? Like dude, I was a, I was a drug addict for 15 years. Nobody even knew it. I was addicted to cocaine and quick cold Turkey.

I think I've been clean well over 12 years now. Nobody knew I was a working addict man in the banking system. Showing up Monday morning, working to Friday, and then I'd be hiding in my fucking room from Friday, eight ball o'clock to Sunday, burrito fix, like back to work on Monday on the stage. Happy person, energy.

Hey guys, I'm here to help you. You know, I was, I've been in the contract in the trades business for a really long time. On the finance side, I don't think anybody really knew I was an addict and I'm clean, but I think that. That 50 years was like an educational period to say, okay man, it's time, it's go time, it's time for you to really live life freaking awesome the next 50.

So I haven't always been like this dude, but I have always been oddly charismatic. My mom always says that. Is that what you call yourself? My mom always says, there's always been. She said it best last week. I wish she was honest. She'd be like, yeah, he's, we told dad and I used to talk, there's something special about that kid.

something special. God. I was like, mom, really? Uh, we always knew that there was something special. Mom, what? I, I agree with her. Definitely. What does that mean? ? So, bro, I, I remember, sorry. I remember when I met you in Dales a couple years ago, you walked up and you introduced yourself and I was there with Beacon, right?

Beacon and service. And you're like, Hey, I'm in the digital space, you know, let's team up, let's partner up. And I didn't give you enough attention. . No. In fact it was in New Orleans and you, you kind of big leagued me bro. You kind of walked away, you're like, oh, hold on, I gotta go talk to this person. And then you went and talked with somebody else, then you disappeared.

I'm like, well he's kind of a dick. I didn't even realize it. And I, looking back and, and I was thinking about this a couple months ago, I wanted to talk to you about it. I didn't mean to big league. I think that I was in a space at that time where I was trying to figure some things out, right? Like on the business side.

Mm-hmm. . And the attention that I didn't give you wasn't, um, to dismiss you. It was cuz I was in one of those head frames where I was really trying to figure out a lot of stuff. Not on the personal side, but on the business side. Yeah. So you were there to network with me and dude, we, I mean we can awesome.

If we would've, if we would've been in alignment there, but I think I was in the same space you were. I was like, I need to go meet this partner that, you know what I mean? So I think that we are there both for the same intentions, however, We weren't aligned at the time, but, you know, coming full circle now we see that we're all helping the same community and there's no competition.

We're all in this together to help people win. So it's uh, it's a good road that we traveled on, man. Definitely. For sure. Yeah, no doubt. And, you know, luckily, yeah, 2022, I committed to being less petty. Hmm. High five, bro. Me too. I, I come to Jesus with Tim Brown and freaking Benny Fish, and they're like, dude, you're aggressive.

I'm like, am I ? Should have met me five years ago. Dude. , I fucking look Andy, Priscilla, and Ed, my letter, my coaches, they say to put my foot on the throat of the competition. I do it. No . But no, they, they, they, uh, we had some good conversations with, maybe a better approach to the industry is to not be so aggressive against your competitors, but to say, you know what?

There's tons of business out there. Let's all work together and go forth. However, that will not change the competitive nature of myself. Sure. Yeah, I agree. And no one's gonna be more competitive with me than myself, I'll tell you that. Yes. Amen. It's a cape and a cape and a kryptonite. Yeah. However, when you channel it effectively and you're self aware, you do your best.

I mean, that's all anyone could ask. So I don't want to gloss over a couple things that you mentioned. So first of all, congratulations on your sobriety. Um, I too struggled with addiction when in my early twenties, and it was a shit show. Yeah. And, uh, by the grace of God was able to make it out alive and that beats the alternative.

So I, I know how challenging that can be and congratulations. That's fucking amazing. Thank you, dude. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh, you shot well on the front nine, but you're looking to birdie out on the back. Nine to finish under par is what I'm hearing. Uh, if you're playing golf and understanding that, hell yeah, it sounds good to me.

Okay. All right. Maybe work an eagle in there. And you know what? If you shoot a couple powers, it's all good. And we're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna chastise you for a bogie. Even not afraid to drop a Molly . We get one of these A hole, right? Mulligan? Yeah. Scoville. You, you, you're older. You've earned it.

How old are you, Michael? I am 34. God, dude, you just, oh my God. Think about it. I'm just getting started at my age, right? You see momentum and I'm looking at you. You guys are a bit younger than I am. You're my wife's age. And I'm like, ah, dude, that's so awesome. You're so far ahead. Like, you don't feel it though sometimes, but man, you're so far ahead of where you even think, where you even know you are.

I feel, yeah, it's, it's always interesting. Thank you for that. First and foremost, it's always interesting trying to. , you know, I'd mentioned earlier, taking things for granted. I try not to take things for granted, but I don't care who you are to some degree, at some point to varying degrees, you're gonna take things for granted, right?

Yeah. So all you can do is try to be aware of that and try to work through like appreciation, gratefulness. It's, it's challenging, right? It's a real life challenge when you know you're running 40, 50, 60, 80 hours, whatever the case may be. And it's, it's tough to, so I'm the type of person where if I'm running a race and I'm about to break that threshold of the finish line, as soon as I go to cross that tape, it moves a mile down the road.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then I get there again, and it moves a couple miles down the road. And honestly, I, I don't, it helps a lot as far as productivity. Sure. But I have to be extra. , cognizant of it. Yep. So that you know, because it can, oftentimes you can be winning, winning, winning. But it can feel like losing.

Yeah. You know what my wife says I do? What's that? She says, you get that snowball to the top and all you gotta do is push it down the hill and it's just gonna roll. She goes, you'll go and create something else just to make another hill. To keep pushing that snowball up. Sounds like a smart woman. Sounds a lot like you, Chris.

Dude, she's so right. She is my third party. Like if I'm thinking about something, I wanna show her, Hey, what do you think about this? Cuz she's not so close to it. She knows it. She's not so close. She looks at it from a consumer standpoint. Third, um, third party, non-objective. She'll come in, she's like, no, I'll take that word out there.

No, this, that doesn't make any sense, but, and I'm like, ah, you are a consultant. You don't even know that you're a consultant. Here's your check. Right, dude, we've got great women in our lives, man. They're understanding, they're patient. I mean, what you and I do, requires to have a really good partner in supporting us, man,

Yeah, she's, uh, man, she's a real one. Mine. And then you know yours as well. So it's like, we're fortunate. We're fortunate because like a lot, I went through a lot of, I went through a lot of women to find their, you, you broke some eggs to make that omelet. Did you? God? Oh yeah. She, she ain't here. She's a nurse.

She'll be the first to tell you. He did go through a lot of women . Oh, geez. So, oh God. What is the most, when you think of challenges, you know, you've had resets, you've had start overs, you've had, you know, reinvented yourself. You've, you've dealt with a lot throughout your couple years here on Planet Earth.

What have you found to be the most challenging and what did you take away from that? I think the most challenging, um, has always just kind of been myself. Like I've been my own challenge and I keep taking it back to, you know, having the ability to pick yourself up, to move yourself forward has been the challenge, um, is I had said sometimes, you know, I don't know, you follow Andy fur stiller or not, it doesn't matter.

There was a time in his life when he was stuck on the couch while he was building his first form businesses and he was watching, um, a movie on repeat and eating food and watching a movie on a Pacific Pacific rim or something like that. If I can remember correctly from his different, you know, podcasts and whatnot, I feel like I've been my own blockade in growth, sometimes more than any other factor.

So the greatest thing that I've learned over the years is allowing myself to accept it, acknowledge it, and go, I'm not gonna be. blocking myself from moving forward in this time. Like, I'm going to allow myself to work through this thing to get forward and get out of this. So I think that if there's something that I've learned in life through the, the trials and the tribulations and the ups and the downs, is I gotta get myself through it.

I've gotta power myself through it. I've gotta maybe lean on other people. I've gotta put positive mindset, um, things that I'm listening to and, and help myself get through it and be my own big super fan to get myself over and get that momentum in the times that I've had to re restart over and reinvent, man.

And I've made, like do 2008, 2009, I was in Rhode Island. I owned, I had a house out there in western New York that I was renting to some right down the street from where you are basically in Batavia. Um, I was about to hop on stage and speak to 3000 mortgage brokers at the National Mortgage Brokers Conference in Long, long Beach, California.

I was in the wholesale construction of permit lending business for 18 years, and we got the call at eight 30 in the morning at California that we were done. We were out of business, meaning the bank shut the mortgage division down. And this was a big bank out of Bethesda, Maryland that I was working as a director for.

And we're like, we all looked at each other like, fuck we could do. So we got home and we, our jobs were done. We had maybe a four week severance package, and I, and nobody wanted to hire me because I had like, uh, 18 years of Mor wholesale mortgage construction or permit industry. Like I couldn't even walk into Home Depot to get a job.

So I had to reinvent myself. And what did I do? I sold my house and I moved back to Western New York and that's when shit went sideways. Right? Like that was tough. That was a, it was a hard time to go back. Go. I went backward and felt like I went backward in life. I was gonna say you felt like you lost to some degree.

Yeah. Yeah, I did. I, I felt like I lost and then I got stuck in a dark hole for a lot of years, man. Um, and then when I moved back down to Florida, that's when I picked myself back up. I became my own super fan and, and then that's when the good things started to happen back in life. But man, packing it in, moving back home, living in Western New York, um, you know, I had been gone for years.

I moved on, I was 19 and went back as an adult and it just wasn't the same. So a lot of lessons were learned along the way, you know, um, Scoville, home services business, you know, I opened up my own home service business there in western New York. I did that for a while and tried different things and reinvented and ended up coming back down to Florida and eventually getting back into financing.

Thank God, because this is where I'd love to help, you know, contractors out with home improvement financing and stuff like that. So Good stuff. Yeah. It's amazing that you landed back in a position where you can pursue your passion. Yeah. I was talking with somebody recently. actually a couple people recently on different occasions, but I'm licensed to practice real estate.

I don't practice real estate. The reason why I don't do it is cause I don't have the time and I fucking hate it. Uh, yeah. Every minute or second that I spend doing something to do with real estate, paperwork, transactional, it feels like I'm working where I can come here work, you know, from seven in the morning till seven at night, shoot content on Saturday, back to back, and it doesn't feel like I'm working at all , like you said.

Right? It's like you, you put in 69 hours and it's Friday, but you, you, you don't feel like you've put in any hours. I didn't know today was Friday. Yeah. I had a meeting after I finished that thing up in Palm Beach with some guys in the office at three o'clock. I'm like, Hey guys, is it Friday? They're like, yeah.

I'm like, oh, great. Awesome. Have a great weekend. They're like, yeah, we can't wait. I'm like, and I'm like, I hang up. I'm like, What do you mean you can't wait? That's like fucking saying, thank God it's Friday. What do you mean? Thank god? Thank God you woke up. How about that? My wife will, she'll be like, I'll hang up the phone shooting this shit with you or some other contractor.

Yeah, motherfucker. Ah, we're high fiving and laughing and chucking it up and she'll yell at me from the other room on days off. I can't believe that you get paid to do what you do. You're an asshole. And I'm like, are you jealous? He's like, yes. Like, dude, when you love what you do, helping others, helping contractors win, being competitive training, um, watching a guy like get a $65,000 roofing project funded because he had the right systems and processes set up and, and watching that money go into his bank.

Like, dude, that stuff right there like make, makes the hair stand up on my arms. Like nobody would understand that, but it does, man. I love it. when somebody, when you have a contractor that's new to financing, yeah. What is some advice that you can give them? As far as the brand? Yeah. Okay. Because here, here's what I see.

I see that like a lot of contractors, they, they know that they need it, but they have no idea what's involved in the process of getting somebody from the point of saying, I want your roof to getting somebody else to pay for that roof and allowing them to repay it. Yeah. Good question. So in our world, I'll let some trade secrets out, which is perfectly fine.

There's two markets. There's called the take market and there's the make market. Take market is somebody that's been offering financing for years and understands the value of it because their customers need affordability and payment options and allows unbelievable marketing companies like yourself. To help them advertise and market to attract more consumers.

They understand it. Me taking that market from another competitor is a different call than a make market, which is what you're talking about. Here's what a make market is. This guy's a contractor. I've been in business for a year, Chris, we're not offering financing at all. What do I do? It's super simple.

I've done it so long that we can just have a simple conversation with him. One, I wanna understand who his customers are. I wanna understand if he's retail, if he's still, we'll, just talking about roofing right now, since it's our world. Are you doing retail? Are you doing storm restoration? Where are you?

What's your demographic? What's your what? Tell me who your competitors are. Cause then now I know. What programs, products, and pricing he needs and what people can help support him in that particular area. Then I break it down to simplicity and make sure that he understands the value of financing and why he should be offering it anyway.

Meaning when you walk into Best Buy and you see a promotional offer on the side of the wall that says, buy your Apple computer now, no payments for 36 months. Does that make sense to you, John? And John goes, yeah, I finance stuff all the time. Great. That's why you should be offering financing through your roofing business because your customers need affordability and payment options as well.

Oh, that makes sense. John, are you taking credit cards? Absolutely. So you already are offering financing and you didn't even know it, so now we've tied in. Okay, I get it. I understand it. And then I just go into the simple training. There's a point of sale and you're gonna go up on the roof and you're gonna come down and you're gonna sit at the coffee table.

Is it much better to throw down a $10,000 contract and wait for the pregnant pause? Or is it much better to say, Hey, which would you prefer 12 months, same as cash? Or would $132 per month fit your budget better? And then you just shut the fuck up because the customer's gonna answer you and they're gonna say, well, how much is the roof, Chris?

And you go, well, the contract, we did the good, better, best. We're shooting for the best here with the upgraded gutters and the insulation super wrap end cap, it's $10,000. But I can make it affordable right now cuz we got some great promotional loans with our lenders, plural, that we use. Or if you want to fit a monthly payment into your budget, we can do that as well.

By the way, none of these particular finance solutions have prepayment penalties. So you know what, John? You could pay it off whenever you want. So which option would be better for you today? We could take care of this in like 15 seconds with our mobile app. Hmm, they gotta answer you. So the quietness in the sale is when the consumer goes, well, shit, he just asked us a question.

And you know this, that's when you as a sales professional, a consultant, just don't say anything. Yeah, that's a really good point, is shut the fuck up. So then we let him answer. And then from there, like I, I guess kind of got into a little role play, which is fine, but that's how simple it is for me to talk to a contractor like this is to make him understand it.

He's already doing it himself, so why wouldn't a customer wanna do it? I just was at best of Success out in Arizona and a really, really high end contractor from Kansas was there and she proudly walked up to me and she said, I don't offer financing at all. None of my customers need it.

Wouldn't you rather them not need it and have it if they did, I didn't even wanna argue with her. I said, no. You've got the best, you've got the best customers in the world. I wish you the best because 23 and 24 are gonna be definitely interesting. People are gonna need to use some leverage from the lenders.

I mean, look it the top 200, the top 200 lists came out today. Qualified remodeler top. It came out this morning. If you don't have it, I'll send it to you. 87 plus percent are using our financing program on that list. The top 200 national, 87% of those are our customers, and they're on the top 200 for a reason because they offer affordable payment options.

Now the other, uh, 13% also use financing, but maybe they use a competitor of ours. But everybody on the top 200 offer financing. But this little gal over here from Kansas is super proud that she doesn't use financing at the point of sale. She's taking cash and credit cards and home equity. And I, I think it's important to note, like you can have more than one provider too, right?

Ab That's why I said plural, right? We work with many lenders and the reason for that is, . Not everybody has prime credit, number one. Number two is you don't want to pigeonhole yourself as as like you've got all the ACEs because if that shit goes sideways and they don't get approved, you're not blaming yourself.

You're blaming the freaking lender. Look, Mrs. Smith, unfortunately we couldn't get you approved. Do you have a co-signer? No. Well, do you have a local bank that you work with? No. Well, I just can't help you. You don't wanna make the roofer's. The roofer is the roofer. Lenders. Lenders are the lenders. They're the third party people.

They're either gonna help you or they're not gonna be able to help you. But you do a little bit of a takeaway and say, Hey, and you also want to keep the the offer to, we've got a few promotionals promotional programs cuz you want them to ask you what the hell that means. Or if you'd prefer a low monthly budget option, we have those as well.

So saying it just like that gets their mentality going. Promotion, I need to take advantage of a promotion. When is the promotion going to expire? , that word is very key in the sales, at the sales point of sale. So removing service or any other company from the equation? Yes. If a contractor is not familiar with choosing a partner and mm-hmm.

they are at the point where, okay, it's ready. We're gonna, we're gonna, it's just like somebody on Google. We need a roof. We just don't know who. So we need financing. We just don't know who. What are three things that they should be aware of when making a choice to partner with a finance company? The contractor, not the consumer.

Okay. Um, right now in this current environment, a contractor looking to hook up with any finance company, and by the way, I'm agnostic when I talk to people about financing because I don't know if our company is the perfect fit. So I'm very, let's just talk. So I do everything from very consultative manner.

The things that they'd wanna look for right now, and I'm gonna say right now for a specific reason, and I'll tell you why. Make sure that they're a, a bank. Make sure that they're legit, that they're big enough and they've got lots of money in their accounts. Okay? So f typically look for an F D I C institution, a large lender, somebody that's on is worth something.

Um, I would say ask your cohorts in the groups that we have, right? Hey, who are you using for financing? . Like if I'm a roofer and I know other roofers, I'd probably ask locally, maybe not in my competitive market who they're using, cuz they're not gonna want to tell you cuz they don't want the same rates, programs and processes.

Anyway, I would ask some cohorts and then three, um, upon, in interviewing said finance institutions, I'd ask them to back up the real data, right? I'd have a real conversation with the finance company, say, you know, how long you been doing it? What's your approval rate? How long you guys been in business?

What type of support am I gonna get? Or it's, that's also very good. Any finance company can sign up anybody. But especially to your point, Michael, when you're signing up a new guy that's never offered it, there's two things that are really, really important. Number one training, number two, support. Anybody can sign somebody up and say, Hey, here you go.

Here's your financing. See you later. What happens when that guy gets his first finance job in a month from now and he forgot everything that he. That you taught him, is he gonna have the ability to pick up the phone and call his sales rep or a dealer concierge or a senior manager to help him out? Make sure that the finance company has layers of support and service for your sales reps out there at the point of sale.

Because the sales reps ain't gonna remember everything. They're already thinking about the three jobs that they got and the two that they lost. And during the sales training, they gotta make sure that they have a phone. They call their rep and get help at the point of sale if they get all jammed up. Now, here's the particular reason why.

If you're gonna find a lender that you wanna shoot for somebody that's super legit, like F D I C insured, and it's not about f d I insured, like, um, the insurance is gonna protect the bank when they go out. You know, it's not about that. Here's what it's about. We're about to head into some very interesting economic times, whether people want to admit it or not.

Everybody's out shopping, they're in Walmarts, they're at targets, they're at the stores. There's Black Friday. People are spending money like we've never seen before, and the shit's about to hit the fan in 23 and 24. Lending institutions when Covid hit stopped funding tech, finance people, brokers that were not real lending institutions.

I'll tell you who the real ones are in the game. Stopped funding. So guys have installed roofs and they needed to get paid. And they're calling this, so what Lender, now? Lender didn't have funds to fund it as a shit show. So if that is to happen in the next two years, if you happen to be with a Wells Fargo, synchrony service Finance, green Sky Interbank, anybody, fifth, third Regions, right?

The real lenders, they've got enough money to fund you. So it's very important that you also, with a lender that services their loans, the folks that are actually gonna be dealing with your customer for the next 10 years on that loan wanna make sure that they don't, they service their own loans. They're not farming out overseas.

Like, cuz that's your customer, that you're gonna get reviews, referrals, retention and rewards from going forth. Make sure that the lender that's with them for the next 10 years getting payments is servicing them as well. So that's just a, i I I'm on the soapbox. I didn't mean to go that far into it, but, no, you're good.

Okay. What's a dealer fee? Dealer fee is the cost to do the loan. So money costs money, right? Mm-hmm. without a, a bank charging money on the money from Wall Street cuz they've gotta get it somewhere and then they gotta go and sell it. They gotta bundle 'em up and sell 'em on Wall Street cuz they're not housing them all, they're not all putting 'em in their portfolio to, to make money off of these.

They get housed up and bundled up just like in the mortgage industry as you understand from real estate. So money costs money, um, there are no dealer fee programs and we actually have two really good ones. But anyway, no dealer fee programs will typically be a higher interest rate, but actually right now, The way the feds have increased them.

Our no, our, our no, our no dealer fee programs are like below the mortgage interest rates right now. So this is like a flip flop thing for an unsecured loan. Needless to say, if the consumer wants a fancier product, like a 12 month saying as cash, an 18 month with paid deferred, a hybrid combo, a 6, 9, 9 5 year, a six i nine 15 year, that money costs money to get that from Wall Street.

So there has to be some type of payment on that money. Um, I don't really want to get into the legalities of how it works, but typically contractors that are selling retail and selling finance as a product, just like nails, just like the wrap, just like the, the tiles, just like the asphalt, just like all the products, financing is actually a product.

That is sold within the cost of the goods because it's the tool to get the job to fund. Sure. So a contractor, I, I would take a matrix, whoa, I lose, okay. I would take a matrix of 60 or 70 programs, I'd break it down to five or six, and he'd say, okay, cool. These are all under 7%. I'd take my retail book, and because financing is a product, I'm gonna probably make an adjustment to my retail book of 7%, just like the goods.

And now when I go out to market on Monday, instead of selling a $10,000 roof today, if I built in a 7%, I'm using basic math core mathematics, I'm gonna sell the roof for 10,700. Well, what if they buy the no dealer fee program? Well, it's the cost of goods. Cash equals credit because you don't know if somebody's gonna hand you cash.

They can give you the insurance check, they can use a credit card, or if they're gonna use one of your finance programs. So by building a 7% margin into there, because you're offering financing, it allows you to move within the matrix of different dealer fees. One zero one's one and a half, one's two, ones seven, one's nine.

If you build a margin in there, the zero cost averaging, as the year goes, the mixed blend of those particular products, you'll end up winning. But you'll also end up lending, um, helping a lot of co um, consumers along the way because if you couldn't give them affordability and payment options, you might not have been able to sell the job.

Hmm. So dealer fees, just like in mortgage, right? When you get a mortgage, now they're high, right? If you wanna buy that mortgage from 8% down to 6%, probably the bank probably charges two points. That's kind of the same way you could kind of look at a dealer fee. Money costs money, it's built into it.

However, in indirect lending, consumers don't do money exchanges with banks, right? Contractors offer finance programs. So it's safe to say contractors will build in a product margin within the cost of goods so they can offer affordability and payment options. That makes a lot of sense. . What is the most frequently used product offer?

Right. Is it 6.99%? Interest for five years? 9.99. 10 years? 9.9. Number one, home improvement product ever. And that's all asset classes, air conditioning, windows and doors. Roofing, siding, kitchen bath, flooring, generators. Solar. We're not talking about solar. That's its own. Mm-hmm. don't even get, don't even go there with me.

I'm talking about real home improvements. I know what my spicy takes gonna be at the end. . So 9.99, 10 years, um, no prepayment penalty. You are looking at $10,000 on that. It's 132 bucks a month. Super affordable, unsecured. So it's not leaned on the property. There's no, it's not a tax based program like a pace or anything like that.

It's real unsecured lending based off of the consumers credit and debt to income, which we call the re uh, ability to repay. However, these are all stated as well. So no longer do you have to get tax returns and all that stuff. It's like scan approved, electronic signature. Great. Cory goes out, builds the home roof is done, gets paid.

It's such a simple process, man. It's so easy and air conditioning guy can do it. Uh, so let, let me ask you this, it you're aggregating and saying on average, this is the most popular. product that's picked, right 10 years, 9.99%, no prepayment penalty. And I could see why that would be the case. It's affordable.

Makes your commitment to your monthly expenditure small, and if you choose to pay it sooner, fantastic. You're not gonna get penalized for doing that. That that too makes a lot of sense. Is there, have you seen any correlation in high income pockets where there's a different product that is more commonly used?

Like something like 12 months same as cash, or is there anything like that? Or is it for the most part across the board? From a banking perspective, we wouldn't really have that because that'd be redlining. Um, and pushing one product on one customer is just something that they don't do on a compliance level.

That's why the question is always asked to a consumer at the point of sale, well, good contractors would do it this way. You keep it open. Hey, were you thinking about a promotional program or were you thinking about a low monthly payment option? because we've got many different products within that. Well, what type of promotional stuff you got?

Well, I've got 12 month, same as cash, 18 months with pay deferred on the low monthly payment. It really depends. Would you like to pay this off in five years, 10 years, or would you like to really have the payment $96 per month and pay it out over 15 years with no prepayment penalty? So by structuring and asking those questions, no matter what market you're in, because we never really know what somebody has and what they don't have.

So by asking it so open-ended, we'll better be able to serve. If we're dealing with a cash buyer, that's somebody that has a cash that doesn't wanna spend it, but they wanna leverage it, or we're dealing with a payment buyer, they need it. They want it, they have to have it, but they have to stay in a freaking budget.

So like redlining would be offering products based on what somebody's. Financial profile. Yeah. I would say it more like a predetermined, right. Um, a predetermined idea that I'm gonna judge somebody by the car that they have and they're gonna have, but the, but our financing doesn't work that way. You know why?

They don't make money on the money They get? They get paid to install a roof. That's the cool thing about unsecured financing in the home approval space across all except for two, two brokers that are out there, which I won't name 'em, they're brokerage, they're not lenders. They get paid on the money.

Let's just take those guys off. They're not real lenders. Anyway, see, that's that aggressive side of scoville. If a contractor got paid points, made money on the money to offer different products, dude, that'd be a different story. Cuz what would they be doing? They making money on the money. Yeah. They'd be pushing people over to a different product and then the lender pays them on the backside for using pushing.

That does not happen in a real. lender situation, and I'm not gonna name the companies that are doing it right now, but there are companies out there that are paying people to use finance programs and you can see how a bunch of sales reps could go out there and push people to one product. That's not a, that's not good.

You want to keep it open and help the customer as much as you can across the board by leaving it open. Yeah. So, and I guess just to clarify, my question was more so not in the positioning or framing of what products are being offered more so is there a correlation between like contracts that are executed and the programs that are used to finance that project?

Is there a correlation based on if you're in an inside of a city, if you're in a suburb area, a suburban area? No. No. It's all, it's all over the board. Yeah, it really is. Some people just be, some people just wanna pay loans off fast. They're like, no man, I don't, I don't wanna pay this thing. I don't want a 10 year loan.

I'm gonna, I've got tax return that's coming in a couple months. I'm gonna just let me do that six month. Same as cash. They don't even care, you know, , I, so I think back to like 22 year old Mike who financed the car and paid whatever, like 17% or something. Ridiculous cuz my credit sucked because when I was 18 I opened up credit cards and I didn't pay 'em, whatever.

Yep. And I always, the college booth, welcome to college. Hey, you need a credit card? Come on over here kid. Right? Yeah. You got these $40,000 in student loans, why not have a credit card? You could live more comfortably in the meantime Anyhow, I think about how many times I was offered the opportunity to, we can get you in this program and you can always pay it off early.

I never fucking paid it off early. Yeah. What is there, is there data on the percentage of people that actually take advantage of, of paying off the loan early with No, with no fee. Yes. What percentage of people actually paid off early in the promotional side? Quite a bit because the, I would have to say the correlation to the qualification to get that is the driving factor of the non-default.

What's the qual, what's the qualification to get that? It's prime credit. So anything over a six 60 would qualify for a prime loan and I use six 60 loosely and lightly cuz we, we have tons of programs and pricing, but typically people that, that lean towards a promotion, they're typically used to buying things on promotional and paying 'em off cuz the whole reason why they took the promotional loan without interest is cuz they don't pay interest on anything and they're freaking proud of it.

So it wasn't 22 year old Mike with a five 30 credit rating living hand to mouth. It's the guy that could pay it if they wanted to, but they're gonna reap some sort of benefit by, and I do all sorts of trainings on this as well. I've got a whole training class that I do on, on determining one, if we were working with a cash buyer or are we working with a payment buyer.

And then the cool part of my training is, well, what if they're a combination of both, like how I did that with my hand? So we've got hybrid programs that can, that can take the objections off the table on somebody that's, well, I don't know if I can pay it off in 12 months and I don't really know if I want to have a 10 year loan.

We've got a hybrid program that combines both a 12 month, same as cash that rolls over to a low monthly fixed option. And they can give somebody 12 months of no payments whatsoever. And then on month 13, it rolls over to $132 per month with no pre-payment penalty. And that's a, i I call it matrix flow.

That's a whole training and sales training class that I, I treat, teach the contract are like on Cory's level that have been in the industry. And they're sales present. They're sales presentation can happen at the point of sale where we're still aligning the consumer with multiple options. However, if a consumer objects to something mm-hmm.

that the sales professional can go, okay, cool. And they just glide over here, and if there's another objection, well, there's a hidden objection. They glide over here and they object again, and we take 'em here and then boom, we land here because they can't object anymore. I call that matrix flow.

How long does it typically train take to train, let's say a sales team of five people to effectively implement financing into their sales process? 45 minutes. Bullshit.

Nope. I could probably tag a whole bunch of people and they'd say it took me 45 minutes to train me and my crew. It's systematic, it's programmatic, it's offered through a mobile app, and the matrix flow is only concentrating on four programs. So if they can sit down and honestly look at somebody and say, Hey, would you prefer a promotional program or would you prefer a low monthly payment?

They're gonna say something. If they object, then you go, okay, great. So you're not looking to pay an interest. So in an 18 month with payment deferred work for you? Well, I don't know if I could pay it off an 18 months. Okay, great. So it doesn't look like you could pay it off there. So was it payment or price back over on the other side and they'll go, well, it was really the price.

Okay. So what you're saying now then, if I can get this for $96 a month, would that work for you? Yes, that would work. So scenarios, objections, non objections, doing it in five different particular programs and at the end of the training, , they'll get it. They won't get a hundred percent of it, but they'll be able to go out and sit in front of a customer, scan a driver's license, get 'em approved in 15 seconds, have 'em sign electronically, shake their hand, get the permit, and build the roof.

It ain't rocket science. Sure. But the training is 45 minutes to get 'em up and out of the house. Now will they say it as smoothly as you and I? Probably not, but it's enough for them to get out there and effectively close deals. 100%. We do it every single day. We'll do like, you know, damn near 4 billion this year in it, so, Hmm, 4 billion and that, trust me, that's just a little piece of the pie.

It's a little piece of the pie, man. It's a lot of the pie, but it's a little piece of the pie. Consumers are still paying cash. Consumers are still getting using credit cards. They're still walking into a credit union and giving 'em tax returns and everything else to get money. And then bidding. Bidding contractors.

We could do a train. You and I could do a whole podcast on why financing allows the contractor to have control at the point of sale. Like, why would you ever set, if you've got somebody live in front of you that's ready to say yes to you, and you go, well, what bank are you guys gonna bank at? And they're like, oh, where at X, Y, Z Credit union.

Cool. When are you headed down there? Well, it's Friday. Well, I've got next Wednesday off, I think we'll head in and we'll go talk to Johnny B behind the counter and we'll apply for a loan, and that's gonna take him another week to get some type of an approval. Meanwhile, he's lost the flavor of even buying the thing.

But here's what happens. When you've given the consumer the power and money is power. By the way, when you give them money, what do they now? Now they're a fresh buyer, so they will now have the ability to bid call other roofers. They've already got your bid. They know what the cost is. Now they got the money.

Now the peacock feathers come out. They got, oh, we got $10,000. The contract's $10,700. Yeah. Abc, could you come out over here and gimme that XYZ roofing product for 10? We've got $10,000 cash. ABC comes in and they look at the guy and go, I'll do it for 10 cash. Yeah. And the poor guy that said, Hey, what credit union do you guys go to?

Okay, call me when you get your money. Bye, bitch. That's a really interesting point. I could, uh, I could see the benefit. Give control and I, I'm not saying control in a mean way. I'm saying control in a manner of. Like customers want to be taken care of. Customers want you to be in control. When you're a professional and you offer value, if you can offer financing at the point of sale, wrap the deal up right now for me, thank God, cuz I don't have the time to go to the credit union.

I don't know where my tax returns are. I don't even like John. And I need, John's a nice guy. John's a nice guy, but I need this fucking roof done now. I don't wanna wait in a week and a half. But the moment that you give the customer power, they're going to shop you. They're gonna bid you. They're gonna, bye-bye.

You. Mm. What's the lowest monthly payment you've seen for a roofing system? Oh my God. I don't know. I don't really pay attention to the contracts. I don't really look, I don't look that deep into 'em. . I mean, look, a $10,000 roof is on a a 7 99, 15 years, 96 bucks a month, like 96 bucks a month. Really good friend of mine up in, um, Virginia area, his entire company is based, it's called 79 Wholesale Roofers Roofs from $79 an under.

And I think he's basing that off of like a $6,873 asterisk below. So he markets roofs from $79 on his trucks, it's branded, and all he sells is payment. Now they may look at that and go, dude, I want a $79 roof. And he's gonna go, well, that was based on X squares at, uh, $7,966. The cost of your roof, sir, is 12,006.

It ain't $79. Oh, that's false advertising. Well, that's not for me to call my, you know, my company that, but it's, it's quite brilliant. . Yeah, I could see both sides of it. I could see how, I mean you'd have to have a good sales team to handle that objection. He does. He's got 'em locked and loaded. Man, that guy just offers financing all day long.

Cuz he's selling low monthly payments. It's something more people should do. I know. You know, there's tons of people that offer financing and they don't, it's not something that they promote in the form of monthly payments. Like if you sit down in a car dealership, they don't fucking remind you every step of the way that that truck's $70,000

And people sell a lot of cars. Right. That's why, you know, you talk about like used car salesman or car salesman in general. Like they're usually pretty fucking good at sales. There's a lot of money that goes in that industry into training people. What's that guy? The to manager that comes, he writes 6 91, if we can get your payment to 6 91, are we gonna do this deal today?

It's never, if we get this eight $83,745 76 cents, will you do this deal today? It's like broken down to the simplistic. , what, where do we, where do we need to be monthly for this to work for you? Yeah. We're just three cups of coffee away. So once, once you get into that monthly payment, they're, they're so broken down that they're like, but home improvement financing sales isn't really like that.

Like you're either you have a need or a want and home improvement, like your air conditioning's broken or you, and you're gonna die. Like you're either gonna melt or you're gonna freeze. So you have to have it. Or your roof has a hole in it and it, and you're not covered by insurance and this is, or it's not being replaced.

Like, oh shit, our entire house is gonna fall in. Like that's a grudge purchase. Then there's the want purchase and the need, the kitchen and the flooring. You don't need 'em, but you want 'em. Those are all different types of sales within the home improvement that sell differently. Sure, sure. So once you've tapped into the specific emotional side, or the need or the want, we can do a whole other training on that too.

You, as a sales professional, can better position the financing in front of them to make it work, to get the sales. Hmm.

All right. We got a lot of trailers to do. You're, you're in a brilliant position. Um, the fact that you work with such great roofers. I mean, I had a conversation with a guy last week, dude, and I wish I could tell you his name. He told me how much he's paying you. He goes, I ain't going anywhere else. I give the guy X amount of dollars per year.

I was like, whoa. But dude, your company's doing that good of a job. Wish I could remember who the hell it was. Oh, I know who it is. Anyway, dude, he loves you, and this was not a call where we were talking about SEO and anything. It was just like, I got it. I looked at his website and I knew who built his website, , and I said, you work with Stearns?

He goes, how'd you know? I said, buddy, I'm in this fucking industry. They don't do this for a hobby. I looked at the website and I knew it was his. I'm not gonna give your trade secrets out, but I knew how, how it was yours and I knew that, that you're, that he was working with you. And he's like, and he, this is unsolicited guys.

We didn't even know we were gonna talk about this shit today. He's like, I love that fucking guy. He goes, I pay him X amount of dollars. He goes, but I'll gladly keep fucking paying him that money. , I don't even know if I called you or text you afterward. But anyway, it was kind of cool when you get that whole, like, when somebody starts talking shit about your, your guy out there in the industry, and you're like, yeah, that's my man, Michael, man.

I was like, that's cool. I said, I know Michael for years. He does a good job, . You're making, you're making a boy blush. Um, that was good. Hey, that's dude. When somebody gives somebody a compliment when they don't even know that that's what you're, you know that, you know that, that, that person is, that's the best shit right there.

You're like, yeah, I've fived . Yeah. That's what it's about, man. I, we do our best to deliver the best results and to, to boot the same type of experience. Right to, to parallel those results. So, uh, whomever that was, that had that conversation with Chris, if you're watching, I appreciate you love our clients, um, those that we currently have and those that will be onboarded in the very near future.

Yeah. So yeah, man, it's, uh, and to be fair, I'm sure that included a lot of ad spun. You know, Mike's not getting rich anytime soon. , it's funny, I I, I know how, I don't know how your side works, man. Um, but you're, you're right. I mean, it's tremendous amount of ads, if I could say something else because we are so large scale and we're national and we really have our finger on the trigger.

Um, and this is by no means a plug for people listening to this on the fence. Get off the fucking fence because let me tell you this, the top national, I can't say who they are. There's some top national home improvement people in the industry, and I'm not gonna see what asset class it is now. Now I'm really gonna keep it wide open.

Leads are down 30% right now. we're down. Yeah. Car, car lots are down 40%. So if you are looking or thinking about getting your shit and your systems and your processes dialed in, do it now. Because this is when companies either do one or two things. They go this way or they go this way because, and there's times when there's an economic situations going on is when you can go this way or you can go this way or you can stay flat and just, you know, pay the bills.

But, um, there's a lack of, it's starting to slow down a weed out there. So get your shit dialed in. If you're listening to this, get it dialed in. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I, I did a, I made a guide for four contractors specifically on like what I spoke about at the event in Florida, uh, when I was on the stage there.

And it's like, , leveraging local Facebook community groups and building your brand in there and essentially turning that shit onto autopilot so that your customers are so enthralled with your company, so they're on there and consistently tagging you. So I did like a step-by-step guide and like Tim Brown asked me on his podcast yesterday, when do you do it?

Uh, fucking a year ago. Day one. Yeah. When, when's the best time to plant a tree? Uh, five years ago. Yeah. Because, you know, it's one of those things where you can throw money at leads, and the cost of those leads are gonna vary. Whether you're doing it through Google ads, you're buying it through telemarketing, you're running your own social media ads, whatever.

And then there's some shit that you can do in like sweat equity, right? And the more sweat equity that you have, the more leads that you're generating just at the cost of invested time. Whether it's yourself, a salesperson, multiple salespeople, office people. , those are gonna help keep your profit margins higher as well.

Right. Portfolio. You gotta be well diverse, diversified through your Yeah, you should, you should have hand a handful portfolio. Yeah. Right. And you should have a handful of, of different ways that leads are coming to you. It should be Google for sure. Yeah. And there's different aspects of Google. You should have presence on social media.

You should have repeats and referrals. But every hand that you, every, every cookie jar you could have your fucking hand in, like, stick your hand in there and pull some cookies out. Look, yeah. Man, cast that net, man. Get some . I'm a fat boy. I love cookies. Gimme all the fucking cookies, right Dude, I've got, my wife makes all, there's so much cookies.

I'm hungry. I haven't had any lunch and I got poppycock. Mm. That's good shit. Yeah. And it's, it's one of those things, I said it yesterday, it's don't wait until you see the symptoms to take the medicine. start doing that shit now because every year, especially during, you know, the holiday season, right.

Thanksgiving heads. Yeah. And you've got Christmas right around the corner, the new year, that shit, there's always a lull, especially in the time of economic despair and uncertainty. Oh yeah. You know, so it's worse I feel this year than most. Um, but it's usually pretty shitty during that time anyway. Same thing like I would say between 4th of July and Labor Day.

Yeah. Usually, right? So it's like if you do that shit now and you've, you bring into your, your local community groups, all these brand ambassadors that are talking about ABC Roofing, ABC Roofing, ABC Roofing, and it's just fucking plastered in five different Facebook community groups in your local community that you service.

This time next year, you will have more organic social reach opportunities presented as a result of that. . If you just do it, you gotta do the shit you don't wanna do it fucking sucks, whatever. But you know what, once you build that ecosystem, it's self-sustaining. Is that a service that you can offer or is that something that you're telling contractors that they need to do themselves?

They need to fucking do it themselves? Yeah. I mean, you can't get into their PRI private groups and do that stuff. Yeah, no. And nor do I want to, I wanna focus on what we focus on. I want as little amount of friction in our process. You guys possible. You wanna add that much more valuable to the relationship and say, Hey, we're gonna do this out of the pie, which is this.

You're responsible for some gorilla marketing over here. You're responsible for some door hangers over here. You're responsible for this Facebook group over here. And by the time that it's done, we got a nice mutual fund portfolio. Some aggressive, some conservative, some. I'm gonna do some sweat equity on you.

Everybody in your organization is a sales professional. Even the lady at the front door. Yep. Word. That's it, dude. And so I, I created a guide. It breaks down how do you find these Facebook groups, right? So there's a way to, to systematically find and isolate these opportunities. And then from there, there's a process in your sales process, there's a, there's a component of your sales process that should be bringing those people into the, that ecosystem, right?

So I created a guide, very simple. Love it. Nothing, nothing rocket science esque. Uh, but you gotta do it. Gotta execute. Oh wait, you gotta do the work. You gotta do the work. My dog's like, dad, can I have some of that poppy cock? Yeah, that smells great. She's like, she's like, it's dinnertime, baby. What questions do you got for me?

Do you got anything for me? I've, I've berated you. So now I feel it's only fair to open the, the table to you. Um, I'll just say one. I mean, are you, you guys are just, how are you gonna start treating 23? Are you copacetic? Everything's good. You got anything new that you're launching? You're just, I mean, , is there anything I could do to help you grow your business other than what we're already doing in all these groups and communities?

Yeah, I mean, copacetic would be a good word. Uh, we are, we're doing well, right? Okay. We're, we're growing. We're continuously growing. We've got some, we got some shit in store for 2023. Let's not talk about that. One thing I did want to ask that came to mind just now, um, what areas do you special specialize in and what areas are you maybe opening in?

Are you gonna say specialized in, in foot surgery with what you guys do now? Like, are you looking to get any other areas? Yeah, we're gonna operate on Mad Feet. All right. Okay. Special. We're gonna start creating a line of orthopedic shoes for post post-op. Yeah, so we focus on marketing for contractors, and we work almost exclusively with roofers at the moment.

Okay. So, Will that change over time? It may. We have a pest control company. It's an amazing client. They refer to us by an amazing roofing client of ours, and we got a video testimonial. Yeah. So they, they, they're a hundred percent year over year. They're outta Tennessee. They're fucking fantastic. I love them.

Uh, you know, so it's the beautiful thing about what we do is all it really is, is, is finding out what exactly our end game is for that client, and then reverse engineering. Okay. If it's organic, how people are ranking, what's their backlink profile look like? What type of content are they writing? And then just out doing what they're doing.

So you'd be okay with me referring a window and door company to you? Yeah. Yep. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, so happy to know if you Yeah, for sure. Um, all right. Always happy to help. Listen, man, I really appreciate you coming by. I, I think that there was, I think you've cleared the air on a lot of things that people might be wondering but won't necessarily ask.

Uh, so I'll be making sure to chop that shit up into reels. I'll be sending it out All. I gotta be honest. All the innerwebs, I've learned so much about you and I'm glad that we've gotten to know each other since we met a couple years ago. Dude, you're really bright. Like you asked some really freaking good questions today, which again, you can, anybody watching this, if you watch in your entirety, you'll know that this shit ain't scripted, man.

Like, your questions that you asked me weren't gonna be things that I brought up today that contractors need to know. And it's all gonna, I hope people watch this man, because dude, we laid down, we laid down nuggets today that can te take people from a $1 million roofing company to a $5 million roofing company.

Yeah, I, well, first of all, thank you. Um, I appreciate the, the kind. And nobody's watching anymore at this point, but what we will do is chop that shit up into reels, have all those nuggets pared out, and we will spam their feed. Good sir. To make sure that all the really important parts they are getting. So again, I am very, very grateful for you, Mr.

Scoville. Thanks for stopping by and ladies and gentlemen, episode 22, we go.

On this episode, Mike has on Patrick Carr of Blue Collar Media Group. Patrick, the founder, has built up his content company for blue collar trades, where he works firsthand with all his customers. He found a missing piece in the industry where contractors would make media content but not the RIGHT media content representing their brand and encompassing what they do. On top of this, he takes that media and optimizes it with his team of videographers and editors.

Patrick and Mike go over being industry leaders, tactics for your business that you can implement right now that will excel it forward, and how you can set yourself up for a successful future with your brand.

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr ==== ==== ====

ep 18

They, they know they need to do content, but they don't know how, or they don't know what to start. You make videos about all the shit that people have asked you over the last five years, 10 years, 20 years. Put that up on YouTube and then just transcribe that and take those, the, the, the content of that video and throw it into your blog.

Weakness may sound and feel good in the moment, but it's not going to be something that pays you dividends in the long run.

Welcome back to another episode of Mission Drill podcast. I'm your Mike Digital Agency episodes proudly sponsored by Team Roofer. You help with roof measurements and clean and pristine proposals. Be sure to hit up the team at roofer today. We're with Patrick Carr. None other, the, the man, the myth, the legend.

What's up, brother? Man, I really appreciate you and your team having me on. Um, I think that you are making a positive impact on the blue collar community, um, with your attitude, with just your, your character. . So it's a real pleasure to be able to join you today. Thank you very much. Yeah. I'm equally ecstatic about having you on, and I, I feel very strongly that you're doing the same, so we align in that way and I am grateful for that as well.

So thanks for coming on. Absolutely. So Blue Collar Media Group, what do you guys do? Yeah, so I'll tell you this. There are two sides to my business. Blue Collar Media Group, uh, was established to help contractors with their content. I am not a media, or I should say not a marketing guru. Um, I'm not a marketing company.

We're a content company for blue collar trades, and we have been fortunate to work with roofers and restoration first party claims attorneys, because the fact is, and you see this with your agency, is that people, they, they know they need to do content, but they don't know how, or they don't know what to start.

And my job is to help bring out their story. so that people can fall in love with that company, not just from what they do, but their people, their values, their story behind it all. Um, and hopefully build some raving fans of those companies through great content. Month in, month out, we do a subscription.

So we go out to the business. Um, I don't believe in, you know, living in the ivory tower. I want people to truly meet the companies that we work with month in, month out and fall in love with them. Um, and then I have the podcast side with the Patrick Car Show, and that is about telling the story of entrepreneurship.

Um, it could be, you know, a roofing contractor. We've been doing small businesses. I had a, um, a repair shop that we did for cars. Um, I did a guitar shop last week. Um, building custom guitars. I just enjoy hearing the story that too often men in this country don't get a chance to tell because they don't think it's special.

They don't think it's unique. And my goal is to try to show that in a different light and hopefully be able to do it in a somewhat entertaining way. I think that's a good goal. for sure. Yeah. It's, there's um, there's no money. Like people think that there's no money coming at me from it. Now we've got some great sponsors on our show and you've got roof where I see on yours and, um, that helps to keep the lights on.

But the goal is not just to, to make money, the goal is to be able to have the funds to get out there and to sit down with somebody in Missouri or in Colorado and, and tell that person a story and hear what they've been through. Because I think that people feel they're alone. Like, oh, you know, I've been doing this for 10 years, whatever you're doing, and damn, I feel like I'm the only one.

No, you're not. A lot of people feel this and it feels good to know you're not the only one perhaps going through, um, that scenario in your business. Yeah, that's, uh, I mean, I couldn't agree more. I actually just wrapped up a podcast about 45 minutes ago, and we were talking about things like being vulnerable or even just engaging in that cathartic behavior and.

What's fulfilling for me is, like you said, the same thing is like people being able to have that conversation, because if you don't talk about it, there could be a million people in the same situation as you are eerily similar, but that sense of being alone in that moment, it's taxing on the soul. It makes your days very challenging.

And to know that other people are there with you and they're going through the same type of things, there's a certain relief I feel like that comes with that. So, yeah. That's amazing, dude. Well, I, I, I always say this and you, you used the word vulnerable, and I think this is something that a lot of business owners confuse.

Um, vulnerable is a good thing, you know, but setting yourself up to be for people to show empathy or sympathy towards you is something completely different. Um, you know, saying, Hey, listen, I've, I've, I'm going through something right now. Okay, get it. Three days later, you're asking for people to support you and the b blah, blah.

You're at that point, you're asking for sympathy, not vulnerability. and I think it's a fine line that business owners need to walk, um, and understanding which one is important in the moment that you're in. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I'd rarely tell my clients that weakness may sound and feel good in the moment, but it's not going to be something that pays you dividends in the long run.

People don't want to follow a weak person. They want someone who can handle their problems, handle their business, and get it done. And if you consistently show that you can't, cuz you're trying to be vulnerable all the time and open your doors and show people your problems, I think you're going to find that people don't look at you as the same leader as if you just handled your crap and move forward.

So I think there's this line with vulnerability that sometimes gets confused. Yeah, that's a really good distinction to make. And I, I think also vulnerability is going to have, obviously there's a definition of vulnerability, but the way people perceive it, I think there's a subjective nature of it where it's not always.

Let me reveal the most inner part of my being and which would compromise me potentially as the, through the lens of the people that I lead, but say like, you know, acknowledging that your business isn't perfect and this doesn't need to be on a podcast, right? This can be with a mentor or a coach. This could be with a competitor that you're, that you work harmoniously with, right?

And you guys going back and forth. And even opening up to that level of having that conversation to me would be like kind of a form of vulnerability, especially in blue collar where I don't think that a lot of guys, I think that there's a lot of people that could benefit from having those conversations, but won't make themselves vulnerable enough to acknowledge that there's an issue and there's a lot of opportunity for improvement within that.

Yeah. I didn't, however, ever really think about what you ta, what you had mentioned as far as like going down that road of vulnerability and how that can undermine you as a leader. That's fucking fascinating. That's a really good point. I'll take it a step further cause I'm on a big kick about this right now that I won't let go of and I'm, I plan on not letting go of it for a long time.

I think business owners right now who are highly involved in social media are making the huge mistake of confusing with themself that their questions that they put onto Facebook and groups and Instagram are trying, are doing to benefit their company. I don't believe that I see far too many stupid questions being put out there on Facebook groups.

What they're doing is they're aiming to ask stupid questions in order to get some kind of validity to themself. When 70 people put a comment that I guess makes them feel like, man, my question out there was good, no one's not. It's a dumb question. Go figure it out with people that truly you can trust and that care about your company.

Trusting 70 people with their comments. Cause you want to ask, what the best crm or how do I pay my employees? Or these kind of things that roofing contractors ask. , it is not benefiting you. It's showing that you don't know what the heck you're talking about. If you need to ask 70 people, how do you pay my employees my, if I'm your competition, I'm looking at that going, you don't even know how to pay your employees, bro.

And if you're asking 70 people with their comments, how they do their, their sheet, how do you know this person is successful? Instead, seek out and do a little bit of work. Find five people that have a business similar to yours. It's not very difficult. And trust those people. Mm. Put your, put your trust in that.

But in the effort to gain validity for themself because they otherwise need the attention and aren't getting it somewhere else. They're asking questions that they should already know as business owners. And if you don't, then find people around you that can answer 'em, rather than the guy five states over from you who could care less about your success.

Doesn't care if you and your family go hungry, doesn't care if you go outta business the next day, but you're continuing to ask for his validity. That makes absolutely zero sense to me. I, I just, I just can't see the benefit of doing so. . Why does this happen? Because men, in my opinion, there's a lot of insecurity men want to have in some level in this country right now.

Business owners want to have somebody and say, Hey, I get it. I'm with you. We're trying this thing together. They just want to feel relevant. Um, and so therefore they're asking questions and they're disguising their insecurity with, I just want to hear what people's responses are. I'm looking for something.

Give me feedback to me. What that's telling me is you're not looking for feedback. You're looking for someone to, to say, Hey, I'm here going through this too. I have an answer for you. We can start a dialogue cuz they don't know where else is exactly to turn. Um, and I think it's a real, it's a real shame, Michael, to tell you the truth.

It's a real shame, um, because it's not making them look like a better business owner. And I think they're, they're confusing as what kind of bringing it back to me, um, that vulnerability with insecurity. And that's a, that's a real tough place for a lot of people to be in. Wow. Yeah. That's a, that's a very interesting point.

So how would, how would someone in the moment delineate between a question, kind of along the vein of what you are talking about and then like maybe a question that is suitable for a group that isn't just attention seeking, um, or, or looking to for some sort of affirmation? Yeah, I, I would say you'd look at it and you'd go, okay, if I'm, if, if I'm looking for an answer to a question, because if that's going to benefit my company, not a poll, not trying to figure out, you know, do you guys like this part of accolades versus this part?

Okay. That's not gonna affect, I'm looking for maybe some feedback of maybe what I'm doing wrong with this plugin that I'm using. I get that. But if you're looking for something to, to benefit your company, you're looking for a, a platform to use a piece of technology. , you're, you're trying to figure out, should I do something or should I not?

A decision within my company, and you're asking random people for advice, then you're gonna get random answers. Um, and how do you distinguish between what's right and wrong without knowing that person's company, how long they've been in business? Do they care about you? Or maybe they're just putting on BS out there.

There's a lot of, unfortunately, malicious people in this world, and if I'm your competition, especially within the same state, and I see that, damn, that's it. That's, I, I just don't see how you're thinking you're gonna get the best advice possible, Michael. I just don't. Yeah, I agree. And e even, you know, there's tons of malice.

100%. There's malicious people and nefarious actors, but even for those people, Aren't acting maliciously. There's plenty of people that just don't know and they wanna be a part of the conversation right there. Like, there's a lot of people that are really fucking smart and know their shit, but there are a lot more that don't, I promise you.

And the ones that don't, they're not forthcoming a lot of the times that they don't know, but they're happy to lend their opinion as far as what should or shouldn't be done. Right? So true. I look at, you know, I think about that. I was talking with a, a, a group called She Roofing down here, Orlando today. We were at lunch earlier who I was with him this morning.

Um, and I pointed this out that there are so many fake people because this industry lends itself to it. For instance, somebody can walk out tomorrow and say, I got a $10 million company. I don't know any difference. I I don't have their books in front of me. There's not some, you know, publicly traded platform where we all can see what everyone's doing.

I don't know what's going on in that. . But if I just do a slight bit of work and I, I seek out somebody that another person tells me has helped them, they, they, I build a group of four to five guys around me. You've done a great job of this with marketing companies. You've got a good relationship with other marketing companies.

It seems like, like the hook agency guys and all that. You've got good people that you interact with, and I, I just don't think roofers and restoration professionals are doing an adequate job of finding good, solid people and they're therefore turning to Facebook groups and Instagram posts and YouTube videos for the answers to questions that come from people.

We have no idea if they're even successful at what they do. That hurts me. I want, I want people just to find a good group around them. People like yourself, if they have marketing questions that wanna understand more, not just a random group of people that they can call on. Yeah, that's, I mean, I, I couldn't agree more.

What, what really is like a, a knife through my heart is when I see guys asking like, legal advice on a Facebook group or tax advice. Another good one. Yes. And, and I'm like, you know, and I don't like to chime in because I don't want it to seem like I'm coming f being an asshole or coming from a place I hate, but it's like, man, if there's two areas of your business that you shouldn't go to a Facebook group for, I feel like tax and law are probably the two front runners.

Right. You know, pay a good attorney, pay an a very good accountant and get, get those answers from them. And, but to your point, right, even if you're not at the point, you know, maybe you're just starting out and you're just in the early, early days of your venture as a roofing or a contractor, um, in general, if you build out a network of people, like you said, that are vetted and that you can trust to where you can have a reciprocal relationship like.

Maybe that's a more appropriate question that you can lean on your network for some guidance. Like what have you done? But that implies that they've been there before, so they can actually give you qualified advice. Um, and that would be a good starting point. I would, I would push anybody who has questions about law and taxes to get with a cons, uh, professional.

Um, you know, but some of the, the, the less technical stuff, maybe somebody else can give you some guidance. Um, just don't ask it in a general Facebook group of 30,000 people. Yeah. You know, what is it? What is it? Uh, stupid Que some of play stupid games. Win stupid prizes, . Um, and so in this case right here, ask stupid questions, receive stupid answers.

Um, and, and stupid means it's just ignorant. You wouldn't do this in other parts of your life. The example I use Michael, is if you were a. and you're going through a problem with your wife, d you know, divorce is around the corner. Would you walk into a random group of 50 guys who are married and say, guys, give me advice without knowing if that guy have a successful marriage.

Right. Has he worked through these problems himself? But we do it differently for our businesses, although they're probably the thing that we love just as much as our significant other, we spend just as much time, if not more, with them. So if you wouldn't, that's the point I'm making here kind of round. I know it's been long-winded here, and I apologize to your viewers and you, but I, I wanna say that, think about that example.

You know, why am I going to random people? Why am I not seeking good solid help from marketing, from a, an ascend or someone? Really think about who's gonna be giving you these answers and why you're asking a question like that. Yeah, great point. And to digress for a moment, you say win plays stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I think of, I think I was 12 years old, I was at a carnival and there's that stupid fucking game where there's a basket and it's tilted at 45 degrees, and the Kearney hands you these bouncy balls and he shows you, he's like, all you gotta do is this. And he fucking flips it into the bucket. You get this big old prize, I wasted, I had like 45 bucks on me to my name, and I wasted every one of my fucking dollars and could not sink the shot.

Um, so that was a stupid game, and I didn't even win the stupid prize. Yeah. Yep. So look at that, man. Trust him. , don't fall victim. Be like caries and their tricks. All right. That's right, man. Shoot. I get that, bro. So why love it? Why is, why is content so important? Why, why, why, why? Well, I think then, you know, 20 years ago was less important because you could walk into someplace and you can shake hands with somebody and you could go to a conference.

now it's important because you have an opportunity to shake thousands of hands in a day. Millions, even if you've got a great piece of content and you can put it out there and shake their hand without ever having to leave your office, um, because you say something that spoke to somebody, you're digitally interacting and meeting with people and such a much more profound, and I don't wanna say quick, but it's just a more efficient way of doing business.

You can still go to the conferences and shake hands, but you're not gonna get as far as somebody who's willing to put out consistent content, vulnerable content at times, but that they are, they're now, they're out 10 xing, hundred xing thousand xing, what you're doing at a conference and you had to travel to get there.

It's just much more efficient. Yeah. Yeah. I always, I, I look at it like. If I'm a company, which I own a company and I care what other people, especially those in my target market, how they perceive my company, it's important to understand that opinions while they're formed, they're also malleable, right?

Like we can re reform them, they can be reshaped for better or for worse, right? Mm-hmm. and the type of content you put out, the frequency of the content that you put out will help move that perception and, and push the narrative that you want or should want. Yes. And there's not a better way to do that than video content, right?

like, oh yeah. It's uh, you don't have to be a brainiac, you don't have to have all the equipment. Um, you know, you've probably got the Sure mic right there. It looks like, you know, you've got, um, there you go. So, um, and those are great pieces of equipment, but you know, as well as I do that somebody who's authentic and takes a cell phone video and at least just does something, um, you can, you can have an impact on people.

Um, and sometimes you don't even know how many people you're reaching or the impact you may have. And I think, you know, I got a call from a guy the other day talking about content and um, he's like, you know, I've been doing testimonials with homeowners. It's not getting anywhere. I'm not getting the traction for it.

And I said, how many are you done? 2010, like six, seven, something like that. And I said, do a hundred more. You know, when people talk about podcasts, do 300 and then figure out, okay, where did I go wrong? But there's something to be said for content. The people that consistently do it. I love that. I love somebody that all the time does it over and over again.

Anybody can start doing it. Kudos to you. You keep up with this thing and bring in great guests, you know, as well as I do. Most people give up after two to three weeks. They figure out this is a lot harder than what it's seen, . Um, you gotta edit this stuff. You've gotta find time for it, the guests for it, you've gotta.

Prepare for it. Um, and so content is extremely important, but the people who do it consistently are gonna be the ones who win, not the people who are looking for the flash in the pan and the immediate ROI on one video. Yeah, those are, those are awesome points, man. I, uh, you know, you think back to Joe. I watched Joe Rogan's first podcast yesterday, and the quality of that thing was fucking dog shit.

It was an absolute shit show. Couldn't get the qual, like it was shitty quality if it were to be ran optimally, but they had all sorts of issues with it, and they're troubleshooting it on there and it's like, it's just a testament to what you said, right? Like, , don't be paralyzed by the fact that you are not amazing on camera.

You don't have the best equipment, right? Like those things are, it's okay. Like people will still, in fact, we did. I, I was down in Florida two years ago, a year and a half ago. I shot some drone content, uh, had it chopped up for one of my clients. His content up on a roof with a fucking selfie on like an iPhone eight performed way better on Facebook than that piece of dope content that we shot.

So it's okay. People like that authenticity, right? Like it doesn't have to be 4K perfect sounding. Um, it's all right. Just do it and keep doing it. And rate at the time you want to fucking quit, double down on it. Right. Bite down on your mouth guard and fucking keep it going, dude. I mean, I love what you say there, you know.

Well, I mean, here's the thing. You do a shit ton of content. Like I have a full-time editor in-house. She chops up reels and puts 'em everywhere because, and it sucks, dude. Like when I go into YouTube and I see that, like this YouTube shorts got seven views from three days ago like that. It's discouraging, right?

It is. But I'll also have one that'll pop with 4,000 views, right? Mm-hmm. . And you know what? I am gonna fucking inundate their algorithm with content and we're gonna test different things to see how their algorithm responds to it. And uh, you know, we're gonna take this bitch right here, the mission control from 600 downloads to 6 million.

It's just a matter of how long it's gonna take, and we're gonna keep pushing the needle. and I, I think you make a good point there. You know, you, if you got four views, then you push, you got another one that gets 4,000. I've told my clients that when you want to give up, know, that's when most people do. . So when your view gets four and you go, I don't wanna do this stuff anymore, this is, fuck this, I don't wanna do this stuff.

That's exactly when 99% of people will go enough. You just, you just pushed past 99% right there. Now you're dealing with a smaller group of people who are willing to do more. And if you want to keep on doing it, there'll be these points that you're like, I could just focus on my business. I don't wanna do this anymore.

And then you push back past another and your, your pool gets smaller and smaller, the people that you're really competing against. And I think that's when you get really excited. Like, I'm not giving up, I just beat 99 out of a hundred today. Cuz that's when most people will. Um, and that's the motivation that keeps on going in my head.

Yeah, I, I love the way you put that. It's almost like, I mean, you look like you may have worked out once or twice, right? Like that pushing every, make it through, push it through that last rep, right? That, that to failure rep, right? Yeah. There's immense gains there. Getting up out of bed, getting to the gym just to keep.

So I've always talked to people and I mean, you're in far better shape than me, but I work out pretty consistently. And it's like, dude, there will be days that I don't want to go and I'll just, I'll go and you could call it half-assing it. I'll get a workout in. It won't be the optimal training day, but you wanna know what, we kept the fucking momentum going.

We showed up, we got there . Um, that's sometimes how content is yes for businesses that you just showed up. Um, and you, as I say, you live to die another day. Um, and you got out there, you did what you needed to do and then tomorrow you'll improve. You pushed through what is the workout exam. No one ever says, man, I really regretted that workout.

Uh, they did it and they felt good about it, better about it. Um, and I think that's how, you know, sometimes putting out a piece of content can be, well, you know, I did it today. The video wasn't very good, but I talked about a customer and we did what you need to do. Good for you. Take them, take that moment and say, I did more than what most would do.

most would've just hung it up. Most would've made an excuse. Um, but as a business owner and an individual, I didn't do that. And I think there's something extremely powerful and gratifying in that. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. What, how do you structure, so you, you're on Blue Collar media group. You guys go on a retainer and you do monthly content.

Like what does that typically look like for a contractor? Depending on where it's at, it's somewhere around $6,000. Uh, and then that's, you know, every month what that does is we come out to your business, we do a pre-production call, and we figure out what we need to focus on that month. You know, maybe they're, you're doing roof rejuvenation right now.

You're working with like an ugly roof, let's say. Okay, well you need some ad videos and you need to make sure that people in your market know what you're doing. So let's start making some videos. This maybe a couple of them. We'll run a couple of them for you or you'll run 'em. Um, maybe you've got a couple of employees who have done a really great job and you wanna highlight your employees.

You've got a Christmas party. Want us to here? So all of this stuff, Um, we, we figure out what we need to do and then we show up in a week and a half. We get everything down on our videos in one day. So we're, we're eight hours of footage. We come back to the office here and next door. They're doing this right now.

We're breaking that content into short form pieces, and then we're delivering those short form pieces approximately every other day across their social media, website, whatever they'd like us to do. We're branding that company with their own people, and they don't have to give us every day of your time.

We need one full day of your time and for the rest of the month. You don't have to think about your content. It's being delivered to you without you now to do anything. So we're building the brand for that individual. It's not easy. That's why I had to get away from it, because I'm gonna tell you, there's only 20 work days in a month, and if I'm going out there to your business, that limits me to 20 clients.

Um, and I wanted to grow something that would be more impactful, and that's how we started to change and focus also on the, uh, on the podcast and growing that too. because I need to be able to, to maximize, you know, our input, maximize our, um, ability to touch people out there. And I didn't think 20 companies was gonna be enough.

Hmm. Yeah. And for anyone that's listening, that's like, man, $6,000 is a lot. I, I would encourage you to go shoot eight hours of content somewhere and then hop in a editing platform and

ah, that shit is whew man. Oh man. And so here's what people pay me for is most of the time we're not getting paid to be a videographer. We have great videographers on the team. What they're paying us for and what they're paying me to be there for is to go, this ain't gonna work. Or, okay, there's something here.

We need to make this, I know what's gonna work for 'em. Cause I've done it right, hundreds and thousands of times now for contractors. So I can look at it and go, okay, in my repertoire, we tried this two months ago and this ain't gonna work. , we need to re, we need to retool this thing. Just like they pay you, they don't pay Ascend to do, you know, digital marketing let's, they pay for your expertise right in that area, you know, the market.

Um, and so I know the, the blue collar like you do. And so from a content perspective, I'm able to work with digital agencies and marketers to go, okay guys, here's what I was going for in this video. Here's how I think it can be used. You know how to make that happen, but this is what the client wants out of it.

So we become a team with that marketing agency to get good content together with good marketing, and hopefully that builds the brand by more and more eyeballs. Yeah, that's a good strategy. Where do you find that they have most success when deploying that content? Well, in my opinion, the thing that everyone's missing right now is the power of YouTube.

Business owners between 35 and 45 have been told for the last 10 years, social media, Facebook, Instagram ads. They've been told. Gary V has preached that for a long time people saw that. , they're not understanding the power of YouTube right now and how to use content on YouTube. So I tell people this, go, why not just figure out the 20 questions that most of your customers ask?

Create a short three minute video titled exactly what that question is. What's the difference between three tab and architectural shingle Patrick Car explains. And I would go in and put that in there into my YouTube repertoire, along with 19 other short form videos. And then I would go in and put a few dollars behind it and geofenced that video to your five mile radius as our Joe Hu Joseph Hughes says, can't wait.

Hopefully one day I can find a good saying like this, be five mile fence. I not famous. Yeah, it's a great saint. I steal it all the time. Um, but imagine then what happens is, it's so cool, Michael, and you know this, you start to get a snowball effect where somebody in your community, because you put some dollars behind it, starts to see that ad.

Well, they watch it. Your watch time goes up and now other videos and start to appear within your close to your business. And people begin to look at you as the authority. in roofing or in flooring or in first party claims or whatever you do. But if you don't put the answers out there, they're going to find the answers from someone else.

Why shouldn't it be you? And if you believe you're the best at what you do, aren't you, shouldn't you be the one answering their questions? And if, and if you don't have that much confidence in yourself, no matter what content you put out, your business ain't gonna survive. Go work for someone else. Right.

Right. But I, I'm so passionate right now about YouTube because I think that so many people are focused on the Instagram, Facebook side or LinkedIn. They're neglecting YouTube because they don't understand the back end of YouTube. And it's not tough. You just have to learn. And trial and error. We are still learning all every day.

Yeah. Yeah. But you can, you can make a real darn good dent in it by just getting 20 questions together and starting with videos that answer. . That's what I'm hot on. Yeah. I mean, I, dude, that's a drum. I've been banging as far as like the FAQs, um, whether it's social media, whether it's YouTube, like in the specific sense, like YouTube, I, I agree.

It's the second largest search engine in the world behind Google. It's owned by Google. Right? Uh, there, there's tons of opportunity there and a lot of guys, like when they talk about, you know, what can I do? Most, most roofers aren't going to be in my target market because we work with like aggressively growth minded roofers.

And like, that's fine. And that's why I create the YouTube as a resource for all of those that do fit in. But even all of those that don't, right. The 99% that don't fit into being a, a partner for us at that time. Right? And it's like, what can I do to, to help my organic, to help my SEO on my own? That's a really fucking good place to start.

You make videos about all the shit that people have asked you over the last five years, 10 years, 20 years. Put that up on YouTube and then just transcribe that. Let, let YouTube transcribe that and take those, the, the, the content of that video and throw it into your blog. Throw a picture, embed the YouTube clip into the top of the blog post.

Shoot a quick video about the blog post, right? Maybe you've got two videos in that blog post. Like that's the type of shit that will help you from an organic perspective that's not really gonna cost you anything. Um, nothing. That's really good advice, dude. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I appreciate it, man.

And you know, I know you're backing that up. I've heard you talk about it before. So I love the blog idea. I think what people truly, what I've seen out there in the field is everybody knows what they should do. They're like, I know I should pay more attention to YouTube. I know I should be running ads.

Well, why aren't you? Eh, I don't know. And then what I look at people and say is, yeah, you do. You just don't wanna be real about it. The real reason you don't is cuz you're insecure. That's the reason cuz you're afraid of what the judgment of others is gonna be, and you're unwilling to admit that to yourself or to your employees.

And when you get real about that, what what'll happen is that you, it takes away some of that power that has over you when you stand in front of your employees. This is the vulnerable I like, and I see a business owner go, guys, I want you to know you're gonna be seeing some videos come out this week. I'm working with Patrick over there, and they ain't gonna be good

I know you're gonna wanna gimme a hard time and you can, but we are going to, I'm committed to doing this and you're gonna be too. We're all gonna do a one testimonial from every four people that you close. And I don't like doing this and you're not gonna like doing it. But that's time that I lead as a leader and show you how valuable this can be to our company.

That's real leadership right there. I'm not good at it. I know you are not good at it. We're gonna learn this thing together and we're gonna, we're all gonna be committed to this thing. What is that called? Like servant leadership type thing? I'm doing it first. Um, and they let go of that. I'm, I'm so nervous.

What are people gonna think? We don't sound good. We don't look good. B, b ba, ba, ba. Um. . I, I think that people do really well to be real with themselves while they're not doing it. And I think let go of that. Let let it, like, you know, move past it. Don't let it have that control over you. Yeah. That's, that's brilliant.

I gotta tell you, you know, people are like, oh, come so easy to you, Mike, you, you do this and I love your content. I'm like, dude, let me tell you something. The first time I turned on a camera, like, I don't know, six months ago to start creating content, I was a fucking hot mess. All right? And I'm still not great.

I'm getting, I'm, I'm, I'm working on getting better every day and I still think I got a long way to go. But where I'm at now is markedly better from the first time I turn that camera on and like, I'm typically like an extroverted person. I'm outgoing, but I just fucking froze up. And I, my first video I made was like eight minutes.

I shot it like 30 times. Cause I didn't realize. How editing worked and that I could . Yeah. I get to four and a half minutes and I'm like, motherfucker, I gotta, now I gotta redo this. It's like, um, so, but you'll learn, right? Like you learn through those repetitions. It's all good. Ab Absolutely. And that people compare themselves constantly, you know, and that's, that's too, that's too bad.

Um, I mean, if you truly believe that Gary V jumps on and just does it that way all the time, you're crazy. Right? Um, and they don't understand the tricks of editing. I'll give an example here. You know, if you would want to bypass one of those mess-ups, oftentimes people will throw in like some b-roll over it, you know, a picture of something and you don't see that they just switched the video right there.

You just hear the sound and it sounds like it flows. Um, but if you don't edit, if you're not involved in that world, you constantly believe that everybody else has a, um, the ability to formulate and throw together sentences that are, that are so engaging and all this, you're not seeing, it takes 'em 15 times to get it right.

Right. Um, you only see the finished product and. , I would encourage people to, to try it themself and see how, how empowering it can be to not let that have its control over you and how successful it can be and how, how it can change your outlook and change your business. It's, uh, it doesn't cost you anything.

Yeah, that's a, that's a really good point. And the fucking tricks of editing, right? There's some magicians out there. It's great. Damn right. Just do it. Do, do all the shit that you, that you don't wanna do and you'll likely land in a place that you want to be. Right. It's mm-hmm. and, and getting on video is one of them.

What, what is one of the, the biggest mistakes that you see from a content perspective for those that are doing content for their business? Stop introducing yourself and your company in the video and what, I fucking do it all the time. . Me too. I, um, now I tell people that in the beginning and when I work with them, you're gonna need to do it because it's gonna get you comfortable leading into the video.

but I'm probably gonna get rid of the intro. So just so you know and edit, I'm probably gonna get rid of your, Hey, this is Patrick Carr with Blue Collar Media Group. Today I wanna talk to you about how to make engaging content, or, or if I'm scrolling through a feed, you lost me. Um, you've gotta have a hook in there that's gonna catch an individual, especially when you're a roofing contractor.

Just roofing ain't sexy, right? Um, it's boring. So you better show me something that's gonna catch my attention the first three seconds or I'm gone. Um, and but going into something like that is very difficult for people, right? Because they need that first sentence to get 'em, okay, now I'm, I'm here. Get the impressive I'm it going

Yeah, and I get that, but I'm gonna go ahead and delete the first part of it. So I'm, I'm just telling you'd say what you want. Um, and, and I think that's where the mistake that I see most often. Um, if you're trying to create something that's gonna grab attention. So what should the opening be? What should they just lead with?

A quick hook. If I'm a roofing contractor and I'm talking about roof rejuvenation, what should my, what should my hook be to grab your attention? . I would say something like you, I would say, let's see your roofing debt. Millions. So, alright, average roof in Florida costs $17,500. If you don't have that in the bank right now, then listen to what I'm about to say.

Um, and then I'd go right into what it is. You don't have 17,500 insurance companies in the state of Florida are paying less and less claims, but you want your roof to last and your family deserves that. I I'm here to introduce you to roof rejuvenation. That's right. You can rejuvenate your roof. You don't need to repair it, you don't need to replace it, rejuvenate it.

We'll show you how to take more life outta your roof for a fraction of the cost of a full roof replacement. You, you click the link below, I'll have somebody tell you you can do it and you can save thousands. Get in touch with us. Something like that. Clear, concise to the point. I fucking like it, dude.

It's a great hook. It's like, it's almost like, it's almost like you've done it before. And maybe a few times . Um, but no. So that's how, that's what I think. I think getting the, getting the hook, um, in the beginning is key, I think. And then, but also not making a click bait. I struggle with this. If you're gonna hook somebody, make sure you actually have something that is valuable to them.

If I'm gonna hook you with that, right, that'll piss somebody off. What do you mean? Where did this go? I thought you were asking me about money. This is now. Whatever this is, this is the one I thought it was gonna be. Um, so not making a click baby. I think it's important too. Yeah. There's a, it's, it's challenging, right?

Because, you know, people respond to good thumbnails and it's like, oh yeah, how are, yeah, because you don't wanna evoke that negative reaction when somebody clicks through. Now they're disappointed because it's not everything they had hoped for. And it's like, well, if my click-through rate dog shit, because I don't make a really sweet, uh, you know, sweet thumbnail, then what?

And it's like, what about the descript? Yeah, it's, yeah, I get it. I struggle with it too. It's all good, . Yeah, but we're learning, you know, everybody is, I mean, and your mistakes help your clients. Right? That's what I love about what you're doing because you get out there and you do it and you're like, well that didn't work for me.

Then you can turn around to your clients and go, listen, I've been trying this, it doesn't work guys. Right. Or that we could improve it this way. And you know that cuz you've done it. Right. Um, and so I think there's lessons to be learned in just creating No doubt, no doubt about it. So, I mean, before you had your podcast, before you had Blue Collar Media Group, like, I mean, were you always a content enthusiast?

Where, like what was your story in the former part of your life? I hated, I hated social media in the former part of my life. until couple. I mean, truly, I went the, the year before I started Blue Collar Media Group. Um, personally, let me say this, back up. Two years before I started, I went a year and a half without making a post on social media.

I, it wasn't. I didn't want anything to do with it. I didn't like what it represented. Um, I was working for a funding company, um, funding insurance claims. Mm-hmm. and I unfortunately got involved with a company that didn't have the funding to do the funding. And so it was robbing Peter to pay Paul. We became no better than the insurance companies cuz they were looking for a ACV checks to come in and then we were gonna fund the rcv on the back end.

And so, you know, basically you didn't have to chase down your money. It was kind of like what Captain or some of these others are trying to do right now on funding companies. Well, when I learned that we, we weren't paying and the time like we said we were gonna do, um, and I was seeing there were problems with people's paychecks, including mine and the leadership.

I quit, um, and had no idea what I was gonna do. I was $50,000 in credit card debt. Zero do, when I say $0, I have a snapshot or of my, of my bank account. Zero is across the board. Um, and I just remember putting my hands in my face and what am I gonna fucking do? What am I gonna do? . Um, and uh, the person I was dating at the time told me the same thing.

They said, what are we doing man? And I just said, I can't go on just for a paycheck. Telling people things are gonna get better and they're not. Um, and so I called up every client that we had, that I worked with, um, I'm happy to say every single one of them, and talked to them extensively about what was happening, what I think they should do, how they're gonna regain their money.

Um, cause they had invested within me. I was the face of it. Um, and the way that I had built that is by running social media ads. Cuz I thought we need to reach a national audience. Let me just learn. I was so fortunate that two companies that you worked with said, you know what, pat, yeah, they screwed us over, but you didn't.

But can you do for that company or do for us what you did for that company across social media? Teach us how to do that. Um, and so I began to do it my first, my first contractor I worked with in Jacksonville, Florida. And I remember I didn't have any money. I had no cameras. I had never edited a video before.

I had never shot with a camera before. I had, I'd had a videographer that did that for me previously, but I couldn't pay him. I had no idea what I was gonna do, but here I am, showing up to them on $4,500 contract at that time with no equipment. And I'm a media company, blue collar media group. formed three days, four, four days before that.

Um, I walked in and the guy, I won't say the company's name, but if you listen to this, he would know I walked in my cell phone. He is like, where's your, like, do you have any equipment? Like, who are you with? , you, you don't even have a shirt. You got no brand? Like, what the hell? And I walked in my cell phone, I said, listen, how I like to do these contracts in the beginning and how I previously did it with my customers is I always like to teach you how to do everything from your phone, teach your sales reps.

And I call it a social selling course if you wanna know the truth. So this will be my opportunity to get your sales reps involved with content on their phone and how to edit and, and do it. The real reason is cuz I had no other option. I never edited on a video. All I knew how to do was edit on my phone through a couple apps that I downloaded a few days before.

Um, fortunately they found some value in it. They gave me a $4,500 check at the end of the day, which they didn't know most of it went to fixing my car. That broke down on the way, which has a whole other thing. So try to get an Uber from a rest stop on I four or on that time, 95. I'm sorry. Um, not fun. So that allowed, I bought one camera used and I brought one lens, which was the wrong lens to buy, but I, I never bought a camera in my life.

I had no idea what lens is, how they worked. Um, and, you know, the rest of the money kept the lights on at the time and we were able to build from there. Whew. So act as if, right. . That's amazing. That's all I can do. Yeah. And it's, it's, that's, that's an experience. And I remember it, and at the time it wasn't very fun.

Um, I remember asking myself, I said, what are you doing, pat? You're a fraud man. I mean, no one's gonna find value in this bs. Um, because there wasn't a podcast I had nobody I could fall back on. Or, you know, when you have success and you're able to look at it and go, okay, but I did this before. I had never done it before.

I didn't, nobody that did know how to do it. Um, but, you know, over the next couple of months I learned how to edit, learned everything I could about cameras, and thank God I did because there's nothing better than a, than an owner of a company who knows how to do the job himself. Um, and the people who work for you appreciate somebody that's done it.

And if you're an owner out there, then if you don't know a certain part of your business, you're probably getting taken advantage of in that park. Um, and I, I believe that when somebody tells you that takes this long to do this on a roof and you're not sure, cuz you haven't done it in 10 years, or you haven't worked extensively with that product, then you should probably know that they're probably not telling you the truth.

Not because they're a bad person, but because you don't know any better. And you wanna make sure that you know your business as well, if not more than the people that you've hired and that are, that have your name across their chest. . Um, and so it helped me to know from the ground up, how long does it take to, to, I don't know, edit a video.

If I hadn't edited before, I'd have no idea. Um, but fortunately now, you know, we've got a base that I'm able to work off of after doing the company myself for, you know, well over a year with no help. Jesus. Yeah. I feel, man, I, I mean, when I brought my, I've got two cameras. I'm looking at one right now, and I went and bought a second one.

So when I have people in office in my little studio here. Yeah. And I, I don't even know how I'm gonna do it once it happens. Um, they're like, well, no, you don't run it through Riverside. You put a sound card in your, in your whatever, the fucking mixer and you do the, I'm like, Adam, I'll hopefully I'll be able to pay somebody when, when the time comes and they can set it up for me.

It was, uh, dude, trying to figure out, like, if you've never done like a podcast, like try, like I deal in Google searches all fucking day, like, and I'm searching. Like how to set up a podcast, uh, studio. And it's like, dude, I couldn't find the information I needed. I searched it a million different ways and I bought a couple wrong things, but I bought this Sony Alpha 73 camera and it seems to do the job, but they're like, you know what, what, what lens do you want it?

I'm like, I don't fucking know one that's gonna make me not look like an asshole. Like one that'll be kind of focused in, and they're like asking me a bunch of questions I don't have answers to. It's very overwhelming. . Well, I use the same cameras. I look at 'em like the Bud Light of cameras. It's good.

They'll get the job done in about any setting. They're great cameras. I use the same ones. Yeah, the A seven three s are great. Um, but people, as you know, man, they will, they will get bogged down by that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know how to create com. I don't even know what camera to buy. Uh, you know what?

Heck with it moving on. I don't have time to go learn cameras so I don't have time. Then just use your phone, man. Yeah. Like you can, once you get a little into it, it becomes kind of fun, but. . And if you're just beginning, you got a cell phone in your hand due with 4K capabilities. That new one on the iPhone fourteens insane.

Um, and I think it's a powerful thing. Just work with what you got. Yeah. A hundred you guys. And you could go back to the Ascend Digital Agency YouTube channel. Like the first couple dozen that we shot were on cinematic mode without an external mic. Right. Literally with a fucking tripod sitting right in front of my face.

Mm-hmm. . And I had people ask me like, dude, your quality's great. Like, what are you using for a mic? I'm like, the fucking internal mic on my iPhone 14, or at that time was the 13. And even that cinematic mode was really good. Um, yeah, you asked a question earlier about being comfortable in front of a camera.

What I do sober October each year, and along with doing sober October, what I do is I try to challenge myself with a daily task that hopefully will make me better. I'll give you an example. Um, one year I decided that I was gonna do something like take a hike or go canoeing. I picked activities each day that I normally wouldn't do.

Um, this particular year. I wanted to become better at being in front of a camera. And I said, well, what is gonna do that? How can I do 31 days of something that I can be committed to? And now here's the way I thought. This is only two years ago, by the way. Um, and I said, I'm gonna take my shirt off in front of the camera each night.

I'm gonna put a neck tie on and I'm gonna call this 31 days a time. Makes sense. And what I was gonna do is try to take difficult things to talk about in the news, and I was gonna talk about 'em with, with no shirt and a tie on. And I thought to myself, one, I hate the vanity of it, which means I'll, I'll be way outta my comfort zone doing that.

I'll receive a lot of negative comments too. But if I can do that, then come November 1st. If I can put on a polo, look halfway decent and talk about something within my industry, ain't nothing gonna be nothing gonna stop me. Not a negative comment. I've already been passed that a hundred times over the month before.

Um, and that's how I became better at it. A random thing to talk about for eight. , and you can look at my Instagram. It's about, I don't know, two months ago I saw one of the first videos I ever did and I decided to repost it two years back. Um, and it was all about how the, how the worst thing you can put on your car, those stick figure families

Um, and literally just a rant about that for, I don't know, four minutes. Um, and I got a lot of negative comments. Uh, who are you do douche bag, you know, meathead bull da blah blah, cool. Close it and moved on my life. Um, and so that's how I started in the content world, was literally doing that. Become better in front of a camera, the biggest growth's gonna take place, and those really uncomfortable situations.

So to, to do something like that, I could see how that'd be uncomfortable and I could, uh, dude, that's amazing. That's, that's a very strategic way to go about actualizing what you were trying to accomplish. I don't think that a lot of people would think of doing something like that. Yeah. The one I did this year, man, is I have a problem with no.

in my life. I don't ask for what I want because I I'm scared of No. Um, and I knew that about myself and I found a lady, a Yale professor who does a hundred days of, no, we broke it down to 31. And what you do is you go out each day and you seek the answer no for something that's way out there. I'll give you an example.

Walk into Starbucks, order your coffee and ask them, well, listen, the only way I want this is if I can go behind the counter and make it, can I make my own coffee? No, you can't do that. Then follow it up. Well, listen, I've got a terrible le allergic reaction. Oftentimes I'd love to at least be back there and make the coffee with someone just quickly to, to just to make sure I'm gonna be safe.

Okay. Um, well, can you stand here at the counter now? Did I get exactly what I wanted? No, but I, this thing that I thought would've been impossible, like they, obviously they're gonna say no. I came pretty darn close. Mm-hmm. . Um, and if you can train yourself to go, okay. I'm going to hear No, you're oftentimes surprised how much you'll hear.

Yes. . I walked into publi to our local grocery store, $60 worth of groceries, people behind me and said, I need to get these for free. Um, why do you not have the money? No, I have the money. Um, but I really would mean a lot. The people called over a manager brought me to the side. I got 25% off my groceries.

Now I ended up giving them, I believe you, I didn't take it. I'm on Douch. . I gave the money back and whatever. I explained to him what I was doing. Alright, but would people think you could get 25% off your groceries randomly just by asking? I'd say probably not. But so many people are afraid to hear. No, me included.

It was my activity to say, get past your own stuff, Patrick. Be okay with hearing no, most of the time. But man, 20% of the time your your butt can get a yes. Right? So why don't you just take a chance? Um, so little things like that, man, sober October and, and, and kind of aligns with some, some growth. Shoot your shot.

Take it, man, shoots your shot, no one else is gonna shoot it for you. Yeah. Um, that's, that's interesting. So when did, when did you become aware of your trepidation of hearing? No. Was that something you've always had and you were always aware of? Or was there a particular instance that brought that out and shine some light on it?

Yeah, women, that's my problem. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, I think that a lot of guys, like for me, I would be looked at as like, oh, may I, pat, you're in shape. You're a decent looking guy, you can string together a few sentences. You have no problem with girls. And people say that to people, you know, like you, you're a good looking guy.

Your hair looks amazing. You run a successful company. Um, maybe people would look at you and go, you can have anybody you want. But my life wasn't going that way. And I was like, why don't I have a woman in my life that I'm proud of? I mean, everyone's telling me I should, I shouldn't have a problem. And it was because I, I finally found out that I'm only approaching women when I drink, or maybe when I was doing drugs or some stuff like that.

Um, and in my day-to-day life, I was too afraid to hear the answer no. Mm-hmm. because it would mess up my ego. And I'm like, man, pat, this is having an effect on other parts of your life. You're not in business, you're not in meetings asking for what you want, cuz you're afraid you're gonna hear no. So unless it's a lay down, you're getting screwed over, you're screwing yourself over.

Right. I get emotional right now just thinking about it. Um, and so I wanted to just try to step out of that comfort zone so hopefully I could be better in my life, better for employees and may maybe find somebodys significant that I could be proud of. Um, and uh, so that's really what it was. It was women that opened my eyes to it.

I think that's uh, well, well thank you for sharing that cuz I'm sure it's not easy to share that. And, uh, thanks for the compliment on my hair, obviously. Appreciate that as well. Um, I, you know, I think that that's a far more pervasive issue than, than what people would think. Um, and I think that it definitely manifests itself in that type of situation.

Um, especially with women. I mean, I've gone out with plenty of my friends who if they're not on the sauce, you, you would, you wouldn't think they were capable of doing anything other than just spitting out a random stream of consciousness. But they get a couple shooters in them, and I mean, they turn into fucking Don won, right?

Jimmy Deane, like, whatever. It's like, it's wild, but it, y you're right. It, it comes back to man, you don't want to hear no, because you have an ego. You don't want that ego hurt. I mean, we've all been there, right? In some degree with something. Um, yeah, dude. Yeah. That's fucking profound. And you've managed to work through that?

Yeah, somewhat. I, I mean, I still struggle, um, which is why some, uh, like when I look at the podcast that I do, Some of that is strategic in that I normally wouldn't have a conversation with some of the guests that I've had on. I got a guy named Brian Hesson last Friday, which we'll come out with it this week.

His podcast runs extremely successful company. Um, and I normally wouldn't be a guy that I talk to, but what the podcast allows me to do is to approach it from a mutually beneficial place. I can have a conversation with you and do something for you, and you want to have the conversation with me to further your brand.

Now I get a chance to, to have conversations without the podcast I normally wouldn't have, cuz I might be afraid to personally put myself out there. Um, it makes me better at it. Um, and so there's a little bit of that. I'm hiding my deficiency by, you know, doing something else, by showing a different part of myself.

But I still know the deficiency is there. I'm, I'm well aware of it. I'm, I'm, I'm definitely am self-aware enough to know what's there. . Yeah. Self-awareness is so crucial in life. Um, and something that you, it's weird. It's something you always gotta be focused on. And so is being self-aware. What makes you say, like in that particular instance, why don't you think that somebody like Brian you would typically connect with outside of the, the podcast?

Hmm. I guess I was gonna be honest with you. I feel as though I don't have enough self-worth, um, to, to talk to somebody maybe cuz I don't feel like I've done it as I'm walking through this in my head with you. Some people that are very successful in business, I'll give another example. Jason, um, an owner of a company called Eustis Roofing.

Uh, they were roofer of the year, um, from Dimitri Lap Penske's group last year with, along with, uh, Martin Petta Group from, uh, from Monarch over there. Yep. I would've never have started a conversation with Jason without the podcast. . And then I went and I sat down with the guy and he is like, man, I followed your content.

I watch it all the time and you know what's going on in the roofing industry. And I thought to myself, I'm like, man, I wouldn't have talked to this guy. He's got a 50 million company. That's not me. Um, and I think that I struggle with the fact of, I, here it is, I'm, now, I'm thinking about this. Perhaps I struggle with people that I feel have done more, even though I feel like one day I'll get there.

Like I haven't gotten there yet. So I don't have the right to question what you are doing, even if it's in a friendly way to try to bring value. Um, but the podcast has allowed me to get out of that and to just, especially cuz it's grown a little bit to approach somebody with, Hey, I can offer you this.

When in reality what it is, it's soap therapeutic for me to get me outta my comfort zone I normally wouldn't even do. Um, so maybe it's cuz I feel like I haven't done it, I haven't accomplished it yet. I don't have the right to yet. Um, Hmm. I could see like, that makes sense as you walk me through that, like the rationale and the logic behind it.

I could see why you'd feel that way. You have a lot of people that listen to your stuff, man. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, and value that. So I, I think, you know, it's, God, don't feel that way. You're killing it, man. , I'm walking. It's a, it's a fair question that you ask and not want, I'm, I'm, I'm literally this off the cuff right there, thinking about it.

And man, maybe I need, and believe me, I'm gonna go some thought to that after this. But, um, that's the first time I've really thought about it in that perspective. So I appreciate you asking the question. Yeah, no doubt. What, uh, I, I wanted to mention one thing we just mentioned a minute ago. Sure.

Self-awareness. I think it's important for, if you know, if I'm asking my wife, there's difference between self-awareness, which people have, and emotional intelligence. I think a lot of people are emotional intelligent, meaning that they can yell at an employee and then after they get done yelling at their employee can go, damn, I shouldn't have done that.

That was way outta line. I'm gonna go apologize tomorrow when I get back to the office. That in of itself is emotional intelligence. You're intelligent enough, you made a bad decision. Self-awareness is being in the moment with that employee knowing you want to yell, stopping it because you have previous experience to build on being strong enough and self-aware enough in the moment, and then making a different decision in the moment.

And so I think those are two things that are confused. You want self-awareness and emotional intelligence, but I find a lot more people are emotionally intelligent because being self-aware is a lot tougher, um, to be able in the moment, change the way you were speaking or acting or to the decision you're making in the moment, you know, and then adjust right there.

So I would just say that about self-awareness versus the emotional intelligence side. Bear with me as my small brain processes this. So I agree with that. The only thing that I think would, that I would differ a little bit in my opinion would be you can be self-aware and make the mistake. Now, if you consistently make that same mistake and you consistently take that out to yell at an employee and you lack that discipline in the moment, then I think it becomes the emotional intelligence thing.

But I think that like, you know, you can, you can be self-aware looking retrospectively and still make that mistake. But again, if you continuously make that same mistake, I don't think that that's self-awareness. Does that make sense? It does. I think what you're say, what I would say that I would build off that and say if you've never had the experience before, much tougher to have self-awareness.

Cause you've never had something to build off of. Like you're saying, if you keep on doing it. But if you've had a situation like that before and you're still not self-aware enough to stop, then I would even say you're probably lacking emotional intelligence if you're real with yourself. Um, you may, you may tell yourself you're sorry, but are you really, if you keep on doing it?

Um, but I think yeah, if you've had the situation to build off of, it makes self-awareness a much easier. Um, and I think that's really cool. Um, when I meet somebody who's got great self-awareness. Yeah, no doubt. It's, it's fucking tough. Just like anything that requires discipline, right? Like self-awareness.

It's, it's easy not to be aware of oneself and hold oneself accountable. And I know that those are a bit different, but, uh, those are two characteristics that are incredibly refreshing when, when you capture somebody that has those, like, I can't agree more. What, cool. Do you have any, are there any like exercises or things that you engage in that help you develop.

your ability to, whether it's be a better, be a better podcast or be a better business owner, be more emotionally intelligent, be more self-aware, like what are things that you do to develop yourself that you find helpful? Yeah. I do this, I do this activity once a week. Um, I suggest do it on Sunday if you can, whatever, beginning of your week.

Anytime you just pick and be, be, be good with it. 5 55 rules what I say. So what I do is I take this, they take the camera here and I put it in front of me and I will talk for five minutes about a subject that I just want to talk about to myself. This is only, you're gonna be the only one who sees this.

And so I get done and I press end, and then what I do is I go put the phone down and I put play and I listen to myself for five minutes. What is my audio vision of myself? Okay. There's a visual of myself with the audio and I'm listening to it. Ums likes, whatever it might be. How do I sound? Do I sound too engaging?

Am I too quick? Um, and you have to be open and real with yourself. Cool. Turn the phone up, turn it on. Put it on mute. And I watch myself for five minutes. What was this about? What was this move I did, or, you know, why do I keep on doing the Bill Clinton where I go like this? Um, it's like my favorite go-to move.

Everyone, everyone watch, watch Bill Clinton, and he does one of these. Um, you know, so I'm watching for cues for five minutes, and then I use an app. There's a bunch of 'em out there, and I transcribe the words and I read them. Does it make sense? Why did I use like in that? Or, um, why is there a break right there?

And I'm, I'm grading myself on my performance and five minutes, five minutes and five minutes to read that thing. And within 15 minutes you've got a good, you know, how you look, you know how you sound, and really, you know, how impactful are my words? For instance, uh, very, really, I'm very angry about this. Or I'm really tired.

Okay. Varying really, you could find a different word. There's a different word that could be more impactful for the audience. So in looking for that as I read it, how, why did I do that word there? Why didn't I come? Why didn't my vocabulary come out with something that was better? Um, so I call it the five fifty five rule.

You do it once a week and you'll get better in front of a camera. I'm gonna fuck around and do that. This Sunday I was watching a piece of content. I shot God a few weeks ago. Tons of like, and like, and like, and I'm like, for God's sakes. Why the fuck did you say like 37 times over the course of 19 minutes?

Yes, I know. Um, but the but don't, people don't see that about you. They only see the guy on the podcast who, you know, has got stuff together and can formulate and string together the sentences and talk intelligently about a number of things. They don't see that side of it where you're grading yourself, um, on a video where you didn't like the way you sounded.

Um, and so that's, that's pretty cool because not a lot of people are able to do that, be self-aware enough or emotionally intelligent enough to be able to, to look at their videos that way. Yeah. Thanks, man. I, how do you, okay, so something that I struggle with is always wanting to be better. I, I explain it like this.

I'm running a race that is life. And it could be my business, it could be in a game of basketball, it could be whatever it is that I'm doing. And I look at it like that activity is a race. You could look at the micro macro level, and the way my mind works is as soon as I'm about to cross the finish line, that finish line moves two miles down the road, which is amazing from like a productivity standpoint, very, very productive person in my opinion, and from what other people tell me.

So the challenge with that is that you never get to enjoy the dubs as much, right? Like you get the victory and it's like, man, you're right off to the next fucking goal. , do you experience that at all? Yeah. But you're doing something that I struggle to do. I at least I'm, tell me if I'm right on this.

You're putting some kind of, um, when you say a goal, I'm sure there's a number, there's a tangible thing that tells you whether you lose or you win. Mm-hmm. , I, I wanna do five podcasts this week. Um, like it sounds like you have a goal, you hit it, then you move it to six podcasts the following week. Is that, do I understand that right?

Yeah, because this is what I struggle. Yeah. I don't do that. This is my biggest problem with goal settings. Um, especially when I don't understand something or I don't know if I'm gonna be good at it. Um, I will do something like, I'm gonna do more podcasts this week than I've done before. What does that look like?

How much do you do before? Well, I think I've done five in a week. Six in. . Okay. How do you know that then, Patrick? How do you know whether something is better? If you have no attainable, you have, you've not put a number to it. You've not, you don't have a goal. That's because then I moved my line in the past of what I've done.

Well, I think I did pretty good this week. I did four. It wasn't more than ever, but it was good. And I don't, I don't hold myself accountable to the number cuz I never gave it a number. I never said what the actual goal is. And I think a lot of people struggle with this man because it makes it a lot easier to fail when you don't have that, whatever word I'm looking for.

But you have a number associated with it, it's measurable. That's what I'm looking for when you have a measurable goal. I struggle with that a lot. Um, you know, it's a lot easier when I can just push it off as I did. Good. I did a lot of podcasts this week, . Okay. Did you, at seven, did you, did you do seven like you said you were gonna do?

Well, I never really gave myself that number so I can mentally scurry my way out of the fact that I failed. Um, not, I did good. Not that I was close, failed because I said seven was what I needed to do, and I did six. That's a yes or no of black and white, and I've struggled with that in my life a lot. So there's an opportunity here, there's an opportunity for value to be derived on both sides of, of the frequency that we're transmitting on here.

So why don't we, we're not done yet, but, um, while we're in this conversation, we'll circle back maybe later on today or tomorrow, and we'll both define something that over the next seven to 30 days, whatever is, there's a weeklong goal 30 day goal. And we'll be accountability partners for each other for one specific thing.

You got item, man, it's a deal. And then we, and then we'll, we'll broadcast if we want to. We can broadcast what the goal is, um, and hopefully inspire others by doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a great idea, man. I really do. I like that. This is good. See, just tons of value coming my way from you. Thank you. Um, yeah, I love it.

What type of, you had mentioned drugs earlier, right? You're like, whether I'm drinking, I'm doing drugs. What kind of impact has drug made, have drugs made on your life in the past?

I think what, what they do to you is they mask, they mask the problems that you have with yourself by giving you a momentary reprieve from really who you are inside. So masking that problem that you have with yourself. The anger or the disappointment or, um, the, the, the, I guess, yeah. Those are two big ones for me.

And even if it's not, I didn't even recognize that I had it. What it did is it gave me the ability to put life away for six to eight hours. and to just feel like I was the man. Mm-hmm. . Um, because I could feel that way when I'm, you know, you know, got a bunch of, uh, let's play powdered Red Bull. Um, and when you got that and you're doing it, you feel so good.

Mm-hmm. , and I think that's why a lot of business owners choose cocaine. Yeah. Um, because they don't give them chance. They don't ever feel anything good. They just get this image in their head where they, they succeed and then there's a problem. Then they put out that fire, then they succeed, then they go home and they got bills to pay.

They got kids to worry about. They got all this stuff and it's just one after the other. And all people want is sometimes just to reprieve from it all. Yeah. Just gimme a freaking break, man. Let me just feel this like, I'm the man, I've worked so hard and I want to be the man. I wanna feel that way. Um, and I think that's what it did for me.

And it's sad because in the course of doing so, it's torn away. , um, years of my life relationships, and like many people who struggle with this stuff, it's a, it's a constant struggle. And I fall off at times. I'll be the first one to say that. Um, because I, I, I struggle with, I, I want to feel that way, and I think I deserve to feel that way because man, I put in all this hard work and I'm tired of feeling average.

Um, and you give yourself permission. And then after giving yourself permission, you are unproductive for two days, right? Because you've been out all night, strip clubs and partying and whatever else. Then you feel like crap about yourself. And it's this revolving door that, that's, that, that people get into.

Um, and it all comes down to insecurities and self worth. And I, I think that I've already shown, I've talked about a couple things here where that is something that I struggle with. Um, and hopefully by, you know, people don't, can say that, Hey man, we all got our own vices in life. Um, . And for some people it's, you know, porn, for some people it's infidelity.

For some it's drugs or alcohol, you know, other people, you know, it might be something else. Maybe it's even healthy. Um, but that's why I turned to it. Um, I just wanted to feel like, you know, hey, listen, I got this. I'm the man. And, uh, it didn't do that for me. Yeah, I, I mean it's, I mean, I struggled with drugs like 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago to the day I overdose on opioids, right?

Was Oh, started taking one or two lower tabs. It's fine, man. I'm super functional still at work, and I feel fucking euphoric. This is great. Uh, I'm gonna smoke a little weed with it. Well now I need three to get that feeling. And next thing you know, you're eating handfuls of pills and you're getting hit with a Narcan pen in the back of an ambulance, which I tell you it ain't fun.

And you know what I. It was interesting cuz that's right when like suboxone came onto the scene and they're like, oh, just take this suboxone. I'm like, nah, I'm just gonna go on a leave from work for three months and just sit in a room . It was fucking terrible. Um, I, I'm very fortunate to have made it out of it, but yeah, I think, uh, you know what I, and then I got into alcohol and, you know, just switched my compulsive energy to alcohol.

It's fine. I'll just drink a bottle of liquor and a bunch of beer every day. Um, and I had an aha moment and I was walking my dog and uh, I was thinking about how ni you know, my daughter at the time I think was like 10, 11, 9, somewhere between nine and 11. And I'm like, oh, it's gonna be so great when she has kids and like, I'm grandpa and you know, we get to hang out with grandkids and then send 'em back to their mom after we're done hanging out for a few hours.

And then I'm like, you know, I think about it, I'm like, dude, you're gonna be fucking dead by the time you're 40 with the way that you're drinking. Like, if you don't fix this shit, um, , and that's when I, that was like my aha moment. Then fast forward like three years and Covid came mm-hmm. and I fucked around and relapsed during Covid because like people that are good at selling though, selling, right?

They can sell themselves equally effectively. Right. So like three years I had gone by, I'm locked in a fucking house for four months, I'm in New York. It was tough here. Not, not that it wasn't tough everywhere else, but uh, you know, I'm not the type of person that can be confined to a small space. I start going crazy apparently, and I'm like, you know what?

I'm three years older. I'm not, you know, I'm not an addict anymore. I'm, I'm way more mature now than I was then. I'm far more better equipped to, to exercise discretion and moderation. Listen, that was a fucking nightmarish mistake, . It was, it was literally like three to four months of drinking from fucking noon until the time I passed out.

You know, start with a glass of wine, evolved into fucking, you know, mojitos and bottles of Titos. And I'm like, you know what, dude? You just have, you have an issue that you're not going be able to moderate these things. Um, do you have a golf, Patrick? No, I don't. Mm-hmm. Can't do it. Try to, don't have the patience.

I suck at it too. Um, so when you hit the ball and you try to edit it straight and it curves off to the right, cuz the way you're striking, it's called a slice, right? And I always tell people like, you can fix your slice, which is way more challenging, where like you figure out mechanically what you're doing wrong or you can play your slice right, where you just aim to the left and hope it comes right back and ends up.

And I feel like that's what I do in life is I play my slice. So I still have all that compulsive energy. I just try to focus on things like podcasting and, and, and working out and working and, um, yeah, that's where we're at. So, well, I've yet to find, and maybe you agree, like you, you, if you were to go back and do some of those pills right now, and I was with you and you know you did 'em, I doubt you'd be like, man, this feels like crap right now.

Um, you'd be singing, this feels good. I remember why I did this stuff. I remember why . Yes. And then, and then for me, I, I say this about, you know, with, with Koch, and I tell people, this one, I've never met somebody who did that. And then the moment they're like, man, this feels like crap. You know? And that's what makes it, what I've seen is somebody go and go, okay, I can see why people get into this shit

Um, and so when you, when you do that, we talked about it earlier with, you know, not letting it have the control over you when you realize like, man, this does in fact feel good and it does have some impact on my body. And it does have an effect on my life. Um, and you start to say that to yourself, you will look at the decision differently to do it.

Um, and the, the, the thing that I use is you don't have to make, you don't have to make good decisions every day. Sometimes you just have to make the right decisions in the moment. And for the friends that I've worked with or that I've talked to about this, if you're having that issue, I say take immediate action in a different direction.

And it has to be physical. Um, it has to be done. You have to do something. And even if it seems so small, for me it was just walking outta the room. I'm gonna walk out, walk down to the end of the end of the driveway, and I'm gonna walk back in. Alright? Am I still gonna make the same decision? Maybe I might, I might.

And there's a good chance I will, but might just go, I don't need to do this. That's a win. That's a win. And you have to give yourself credit for a win. . Um, and you may go back and do it two days later, but that moment you got right there damnit you won. And, and you should give yourself credit for that. And you may fail later.

You may fail 10 other times, but that one time you showed yourself that you got some real guts to you, you got some brass balls. You, you did it that time. Well, I just walked down the hallway or down the, the, the driveway. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. But you did something right. And that to me is where the victories are and these small moments and my, the advice that the only thing that helped me was immediate physical action to do something different.

And I still struggle with it today, but because it's gonna be good when you do it. Take the action to go in, go in a different direction. Maybe you win, maybe you don't, but you gave yourself an opportunity. Yeah. But you know what, dude, those, you know, every winning streak starts with one win. Right. Good point.

Yes. You know, so, , um, you know, those small, those small wins can compound into fucking massive gains. So I really do like that approach. That's, that's really good insight. And it works for everything else too. You wanna go to the gym, okay? You don't have to go to the gym and work out. You can go to the gym and just walk in the treadmill.

So why don't you take immediate action to do it? Well, I'm sitting down right now, then get up. You don't have to do anything more than that. I'm not saying you have to do anything other than get up. Well, now I'm at the gym. Now what? Walk . Walk on a treadmill walk. Put one foot in front of the other. Because sometimes, man, that's all you might have in you.

And because you think like, oh, listen man, all I can do today is this. This is all I can do. That is my cross to bear today. And the only b the burden I can carry is walking. Cool. Um, then walk. Most of the time what you'll see is that, that burden you thought you'll get there in 15 minutes and you're like, well, I'm, I'm here.

I've beared this cross. Let me go over here and put something up and lift it up. . Um, and I think that people would far underestimate the burden that they can carry because they're unwilling to try to carry it. Um, and so carry that burden, put it on your shoulders and find the purpose with your day by taking immediate action that's gonna make your life better, um, and, and rewrite the story that you've told yourself in your head that you're not in shape.

That I can't do it today, that I'm too damn tired by just taking one minute or one moment, one second, to get up off the couch, to walk to the end of the driveway. Do something that's gonna physically put you in a different state, and then you'll make an immediate impact in a positive direction, and you'll change the story that you tell yourself about who you are.

Isn't it fucking wild? How strong our minds are and how like self-limiting what goes on in our minds can be. That's so true. And like, I mean, yeah, I mean the story, we've told ourselves a story for years. You're not smart, you're not in shape, you're not an athlete. . I can't do what? I can't do that cuz I'm not good in front of a camera.

Um, I'm not a good boss because I can't motivate people. You've told yourself a story probably since you were in elementary school about who you are, but you don't even know why you feel that way anymore. I'm not good with numbers. I, I told myself that then all of a sudden I started to realize I'm not bad with numbers

Um, but I told myself that cuz I couldn't, I wasn't good in calculus in high school, so how am I'm not good with numbers all these other smart people are. Um, and then maybe you should just try to stop telling yourself the same damn story and tell yourself a different one and your mind might take over and make you a better person.

Um, like you said, has such control over how we feel about ourselves. Mm-hmm. so much control. Yeah. And to that point, fuck calculus. Okay. never used that crap in my life, ever. I, um, dude, I did really good at math up until, uh, advanced Algebra and Trigonometry. We started doing that shit and I'm like, I just checked out and, uh, dude, I think that was the year.

So my dad was an interesting guy. He was a roofer slash gc and, uh, we got these five week reports, right? Like, let, we'll let you know how your kids are doing in school. So these motherfuckers sent him out on like the 23rd of December, and I had like four of my grades that were in the seventies. This dude flew off the handle.

He threw all of our presents into the back of the truck in the middle of like a fucking snowstorm and dropped us off at our mom's house and. I'm thinking at the school, I'm like, it's your fault. It was my fault. Cuz my grades weren't to where I knew they should be, but um, that was fucking . That was wild dude.

Yep. Oh yeah. And, and algebra and trigonometry had a big part in that. So Miss Odessa, if you're watching God damn you. Yeah. Yep. I remember my lidy, I'll tell you, the teacher who has the biggest impact on my life is a, a speech therapist. Um, in a positive way. I had a, miss Pendry was her name. I couldn't, I couldn't speak to save my life and I still have a lisp that comes through.

Um, so it used to be something that really bothered me. Um, it still bothers me, but that, that lady had a big impact on my life. I think it'd be kind of cool to see whatever happened to her because, you know, I definitely would not be able to sit in front of a camera or done some of the things I've done in my life if, you know, that was constantly what I was thinking about.

And, uh, that was a, that was a big impact in a positive way. I couldn't pronounce like five different letters. No shit. Ss how old were you when you met her? second grade, I don't know what people are, it's second grade, so it had to be, you know, I don't know. Somewhere around being like six or seven, I would say.

Yeah, maybe a little bit younger. And I remember it was, it was embarrassing cuz they got pulled outta class and everyone, yo, you're one of the speech therapist, you can't talk. Um, and I went for five years throughout elementary school and middle school, um, trying to, you know, get my speech to where it was, you know, somewhat, I don't know, impactful or people didn't have to only listen to a guy who sounded like, uh, Rocky Balboa.

Um, and uh, so that helped out a lot. Miss Pendry. I remember that. Well, miss Pendry, thank you for y you know, I would love to find a way to make sure she gets that message. Do you know how fulfilling that would be, fucking 30 years later to, to hear the impact that you made on somebody's life to that degree?

Yeah. The only, only teacher's name I probably remember is hers and, uh, although embarrassing, she never made me feel like I was less of a student or a person. , um, or a kid because I didn't talk like everybody else. And it's funny because now people will tell me that maybe the most thing they remember about me is the, the voice.

Um, and I find that almost to be so ironic that it was one of the things that held me back as a child, but now maybe is, uh, maybe it's something that people can remember in a positive way. Um, and uh, yeah. So it's interesting how that works. Miss Pendry. I mean, you, you'd make her fucking, I don't wanna say life, but it would be making more than making her day.

I can't, dude, I can't imagine. I'm trying to put myself in her shoes and like having a student come up to me decades later and be like, I can't express to you how big of an impact you made on my life. Right? Like, like, let's be honest, when you're a teacher, you're not doing it for the money. No. Right? Like, teachers don't, I don't know.

From what I understand, they. , I mean, for the, for the future of our, of our country and the, the, the folks that are gonna be a part of it, to be being educated by teachers, for them to make what they make, I think they should make a little bit more money. Um, a hundred percent. You know, so, you know, I, I think that's what they're pursuing is that feeling of making a difference.

Man, that would be so meaningful. I'd love to be able to facilitate her hearing that. Me too. I wouldn't, I, I'm sure you know, now that you, you mention it, I've mentioned her a few times on various pod on my own podcast a number of times. Um, and, uh, it'd be pretty cool. Um, I really, you know, I think maybe a broader point is that we all are, we all are struggling with something in life.

And when somebody can make you feel like what you're struggling with, um, is okay, and they can help you work through it, and they look at you and say, Hey man, I got you. I ain't gonna leave. , um, you're gonna work through this. We're gonna get through this. I have the ability to get you better. Um, I know it's hard now, but you're gonna make it.

And you get somebody who follows through on that and sits there and, you know, not like 20 years later she contacted me and go, Hey, listen, I saw you had a little success in business. Really would love this, this and this. They do it completely selflessly, like, man, that, can you make a good point? You just never know the impact that can make on a person when you just recognize that, man, I get what you're going through and we're gonna get you somewhere else.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, dude, this was fucking amazing. Well, I got a question for you. End it. You got somebody that comes from, I mean, it doesn't have to be a teacher, but you got somebody that comes to mind. Somebody you think that if they, they made an impact on you, they don't, that you don't think, like, you don't think they know the impact they made on you.

It could be anybody. I'm just, I'm just curious. For me it would be, You know, maybe he did know he's passed, but my stepfather really funny. Um, yeah, he, uh, I mean, so we, I mean, we grew up in a, in a situation we weren't dirt poor, but we were far from well off, or I would say even financially stable. But I'll tell you what, man, every year starting when I was like 11, he, uh, he would take me, he would bring me to Jim Kelly football camp.

I love football, always played football, right? And I, I was, I was the kid, right? I was always like, struggled with my weight. Like Saturday morning, I'm 78 pounds when I gotta be 75 pounds, he would take me to go run in a fucking garbage bag to get those last three pounds off every fucking week, like clockwork, right?

But, um, you know, right around 11 or 12, they asked me if I wanted to start doing Jim Kelly camp. And I'm like, you know, it's interesting as a kid, like you try to be like aware and cognizant of what's going on. I'm like, It's really expensive. It was a really expensive camp, you know, it was like, you know, 300 bucks for the week or something back in, you know, 1999.

And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'd love to, but can we afford it? Right. Um, and I, you know, he's like, we'll make it happen or whatever. So like, not only would he, this fucking guy, this is just a testament of many of his character. He would take his one week off from work and drive me out to football camp and fucking sit there and watch every drill all day long, all day long.

Like, you get like, and you don't know what that means as a kid, but then as you become an adult and it's like, dude, if you get a week or two off to spend a fucking week at camp with your kid all day, no. No one else's parents did that. They dropped him off. Come pick him up. And, you know, that's just how much that show that he cared was just fucking amazing.

He was such a good dude. Yeah. That's cool, man. You, you think you, you take some of that now into your life. . Yeah, I'd like to think so. Um, you know, we'll talk, you know, hopefully in 20 years, you know, or 10 years when my daughter's older, she's 15 now. I'll, I'll circle back with her and ask her, does any of these things from Grandpa Dave shine through, um,

Did I completely boss this? You know, be honest with me. Uh, , that's great. Yeah, no doubt. No, man. Um, I very cool, man. I see us having many conversations in the future. Um, I am incredibly grateful for you taking time and engaging in, in con, truly meaningful conversation that I just know is going to make a huge impact to somebody, if not a ton of people.

So, thank you very much, Mr. Carr. Uh, I, I appreciate it from you, man. And what I'm, what I said in the beginning, I mean, the world needs more people like you. Um, your, your interest with the people that step in front of you is important and needed. Um, you take a genuine interest in the people in front of you.

and it is very cool to see. Um, and, uh, it's, it's so needed. Um, I hope you continue to do it. I really do, because I think that it's making a very positive impact. And as we said earlier, sometimes you don't know how great of an impact it's making, but I think you're definitely doing that. I, I know you are.

I've, I've seen it myself. Um, so I hope you continue to do this, man. I think people will really appreciate your authenticity and who you are as a man. That means a lot to me. It really does, dude. Um, thank you. I'll tell you what, man. I re thanks for having me on the show. Uh, thanks to your team. If there's anything I can do, You know what we can do?

Whatever else, man. I'm here. Likewise, brother.

On this episode of the Mission Control Podcast, Mike has on sales & commercial content expert, Jordan Harrison!

Jordan has many years in content creation specifically geared for contractors. He has learned the modern way on how to approach sales, opposed to the old style way which people tend to see right through. Jordan has taken these qualities and now runs his own content business that specializes in commercial businesses.

Jordan shares his three sales tip strategies, and the KEY to content creation in 2023!

Contact us! [email protected]

ep 17

[00:00:00] Jordan: Gotta talk about what's relatable to people. That's the only way they're gonna engage with what you're putting out there.

[00:00:05] Mike: Nobody wants to be pitched at every turn. If every time you see me, I'm trying to sell you something, you're gonna be like, fucking Mike is so annoying.

[00:00:14] Jordan: Only about 10% of your concert's gonna be seen.

We

[00:00:25] Mike: got Mike Stearns with Jordan Harrison of Pesto Media. It's the um, it's a post Thanksgiving episode of the Mission Control Podcast and it's sponsored by Roofer. And if you need end to end sales solution for your roof and company, things like quick, instant measurements and beautiful, clean and pristine presentations that force your prospect to buy from you.

Hit up roofer, Jordan. What's

[00:00:53] Jordan: up? Not my, not my height, that's for sure. , that's, I can relate it. That's the terrible joke I used to give kids when I teach there to be every time. What's up, Mr. Harrison? That's what I'd get, not my height, and I'd just go with the old

[00:01:07] Mike: dad joke. But here's the thing, right? Let, let's, let's pivot this into a conversation about marketing.

Like how great are things like dad jokes and ironic humor. I shot some content with Tim the other day and we were talking about it. Like, what does that do for your brand?

[00:01:22] Jordan: Well, it does everything. Like that's a, that's, you know, it's funny. Okay, I was just editing videos and I was talking about. You gotta talk about symptoms, you gotta talk about what's relatable to people.

Mm-hmm. , that's the only way they're gonna engage with what you're putting out there. Marketing, uh, your messaging is, has to be engaging to, um, what your audience has listened to. Right. If you talk about the, the big problems of what pe, what you're fixing, whatever, whatever you're doing in your business, yeah.

They're not gonna relate to it much as like, Hey, you have a, a big water stain in your roof or in your ceiling. You obviously know that's gonna be coming from a leak from somewhere. So you're talking about something that's relatable. So here, when you're talking about dad jokes and you're talking about, um, you know, crap that people deal on a daily basis, um, that's relatable, that's engaging and that's what they're gonna catch.

Um, and so that's why, that's why I, I tune into a lot of, I like a lot of the Tim stuff and the memes cuz he is so relatable to the roofers. He does a great job with it. And then, um, and, and it's, and I think that's what grabs, grabs their attention and brings them into the educational side. And, and to be honest with you, that's the things that I'm trying to get better at.

Although I just love a good dad joke, man. .

[00:02:30] Mike: I mean, dad jokes are great. My daughter hates me when I hit her with the dad jokes. Um, so she's less receptive, but she's not my target market. So what ifs? Um, yeah, and I try to, I also try to be relatable with, you know, what the kids say these days. Things like, you know, these sweet potatoes be bussing.

Um, and that is, uh, equally, um, not well received from, from the, the younger demographic when, uh, I try to be hip, so, you know, whatever, it's an uphill battle. But I try, I try my bus. How was your Thanksgiving man?

[00:03:13] Jordan: It was good. We did, um, we did in-law Thanksgiving first, uh, on Wednesday. So they came in to, I actually came to our house. Mm-hmm. . So we, our house was clean for the first time in a while. , uh, had a great time. Ate some Thanksgiving feast and then we did, Saturday is my, my side. So we'll go to my mom's house on Saturday.

Watch the, um, you know, we're in Alabama, so we're gonna be watching the Iron Bowl. Um, and that's what, that's what we'll do on, on Saturday. Watch our Iron Bowl and, um, I'll watch all of 'em get beat. But it was good, man. How about yourself?

[00:03:48] Mike: It was good, man. Eight. Uh, it was funny. We had. Three different stops to make.

So we went to my sister's house and got to see my nieces and nephews and, and my aunt and my uncle. It's fantastic. And then we went to my wife's, uh, mother's house. Uh, and then we went to my wife's father's house and, uh, you know, at my sister's and my wife's, uh, mother's house, I, you know, here's the thing, man, I, I eat, I, if I eat a morsel of food and sit down on a couch, it's fucking lights out, right?

I passed out for like an hour at my sister's house and then did the same thing at her mother's house. Uh, weirdly enough, I couldn't get to sleep last night. So, uh, but it was great. We got to see, you know, family, friends, and, and hung out and ate good food and it was really good. Yeah. Lot, lot of, lot of fun.

Do you drink

[00:04:35] Jordan: Starbucks? See Buffalo Bills when

[00:04:40] Mike: Okay.

[00:04:41] Jordan: We did get to see the bills. I'm a big coffee spot. It was great. Yeah. Uh, I'm a massive coffee snob like. , big coffees knob. So I order my coffee from a coffee shop in Mobile, Alabama called Carpe DM Coffee. And matter of fact, I just put my order in yesterday, seize the day, and I get their Italian roast.

Yes, it is. Uh, when I was in college down there, I spent a good chunk of my student loan money at that place. Um, and I now stink a lot of my adult money. at that place, uh, shipping coffee up there. So I ship it. I get Italian roast. Mm-hmm. and I grind it up myself. I have, do, we have two espresso makers, although they're on their last leg, about to upgrade those.

Um, and we make our own espresso. So I don't like Starbucks. Never really been a big fan. Um, so we make our own espresso. We do steam. Just a splash of steam milk. We've froth it up, froth goes in. I like to put agave in mind just enough to, to pull the bitterness away. And it's just, it's, it's based on like a Cuban style coffee that we, we learned how to make when we were in, um, in Key West when I used to live in South Florida.

So it is, uh, it is my, I love coffee. I notice, uh, what you can't see behind me, there's a big coffee bag there, and I literally, which is about to come up here in my studio. Uh, I got more coffee stuff coming up behind me soon that we just ordered. Gotta get it fixed. Um, but yeah, so I'm a big coffee snob dude.

Massive .

[00:06:15] Mike: Yeah, I drink, I drink a lot of coffee. I, I mean, I wish that I had the level of commitment that you have to your coffee. in my life, because, I mean, that sounds amazing. And like the Cuban coffee, I mean, that shit hits different, you know, when I was, I was down in Tampa, we went to this spot down in Ibor and got some Cuban coffee and I mean mm-hmm.

Yeah. That shit's wild. Yeah. I'm becoming, uh, more and more frustrated with Starbucks if, if I'm being honest. Um, you know, we had that snow storm that everyone nationwide saw, and I, you know, we used to, we're, we're pretty well equipped for snow here in Buffalo. And, you know, I, I used the app. I mean, having a mobile app to kind of circumnavigate the, the chaos in mayhem that can be a Starbucks store is fantastic, right?

So, like, typically I wake up, I order my coffee while I'm still in bed, knowing it's gonna take me half hour 45 to get there. and then I just kind of chuckled at all the people waiting around for their coffee. Cuz I walk in, I grab my coffee and I go and I'm happy. What happened was I ordered through the app the other day and I thought I was gonna get to go laugh at people waiting around and joke was on me because the store was closed.

So they got me for two Americanos. So Starbucks, if you're listening, Yomi like 9 75. Um, you know, but that was, that was a tough start to the day. It really was. It was frustrating. Yeah. For my wife, Apresso maker, dude, I just paid for the convenience, you know? It's true. I don't know, is it, it's probably not that hard to make the espresso, but you know, it's really nice that where it's like I've got my little routine and, uh mm-hmm.

I like, I like the routine. , I'll entertain it. So you send me a link for an espresso maker and I will perhaps purchase set espresso maker and start making my own shit. I'll make you a video and stop being so reliant on Starbucks. Fair

[00:08:35] Jordan: enough. I'll make you a video on how to do it. Yeah,

[00:08:41] Mike: problem aware content, folks. So, Mike's got a problem. He's got a lot of problems, but one of which is this, uh, this need to get off of Starbucks and Jordan's gonna create some problem aware content to help me get there. Let's talk about that through the vein of like a contractor though. How, how important is problem aware content?

What does it do for their target audience? How can it help them? How is, how do you make the juice worth the squeeze, Jordan?

[00:09:11] Jordan: Yeah. So let's squeeze some juices. So problem aware content is, That's the initial, how you gonna grab somebody's attention? And, but, and really you almost have need a step before that.

You need, I guess you can call it symptom aware, because that's what you're talking about is the symptom. So problem aware content allows you, that's the first initial step in investing in the customer with your content and showing them how to solve their problem. Well, first off, make 'em aware of the problem, giving it a name to it.

Hey, this could be your problem. Um, and then before you move 'em into any type of solution or content, you're just, you're helping them and investing in them before you even ask for a sale, whatever it is. So it's your first initial. Offering, shaking of hands, building trust with an audience. Um, and you put that, you put that shit out there and you put a ton of it out there.

Uh, and it, it is the first investment in showing them, Hey, I actually care about the customer first instead of all of your content being nothing. But hey, look, if you got a problem, if you need a new AC unit, need a new roof, give me a call. We'll put a new roof on for you. Yeah, but like, how do I know I need one?

Like, I know mine's 20 years old, but can it last another 10 years? Can it last another five? Like, how in the world do I know I need a new one? Nobody really knows unless there's like a, you know, big ass hole in your ceiling, , uh, or you got a massive drip coming through. But even then it may just be a repair.

Problem or content is what is, is the first step in building trust and engaging your audience and letting them know that, hey, it, these are things to look out for here, here is what they could possibly be. Um, and here's what would happen if you don't fix those things, which is the last thing that most people don't talk about.

Here's the timeline. Hey look, you should get it fixed by X time. And then that way you don't, um, you know, further consequences could happen, right? And so I think in the first part of problem or content, that's what you gotta do. And you gotta put a ton of it out. And that's when I do my own content. And when I do client content, that's the majority of what we put out is simply just problem aware and, and being consistent.

Cuz at the end of the day, like if you listen to like Joe Hughes a lot, only about 10% of your content's gonna be seen maybe. So you have to put out, continuously put it out there. So eventually that 10% is gonna catch it and see it, uh, that might need it. Or if they're doing their research and they're looking up on social media and let's, and we're talking social media for a moment, we're not talking about content on, you know, Google.

Because that, to me, I think that's two different things. Uh, it's not two different things, but like how people search for it is two different things. So, um, as far as social media goes, like it's that first initial on video building trust, showing people that, um, that hey, these are issues that you could have.

This is how you're going to, you know, this is what you need to do to solve or whatever. Right? So anyway, I'm, I'm repeating myself, but, uh, the, the whole point is that's the first initial part of investing in the customer. Uh, and then, and building that first initial trust. Um, and if you can do it on video, which you should be doing it on video, that makes it even better.

[00:12:16] Mike: Yeah, that's a really good point. So what should the tone of the video content be? Should it always be professional? Should there be some humor? Should it be relaxed? Like is there a balance to that? Like what's the art form to make sure that you are getting the most out of, let's say 10% of people that are seeing your content?

Like we wanna get the most out of that, right? If we're investing into it. So how do we do that?

[00:12:44] Jordan: So when I think of tone, I'm gonna go with branding for a moment. Like, what are you, you as a person, who are you trying to attract? If you're just like, Hey, we're a professional organization, that's how we present ourselves, um, the keep your content professional.

We wanna attract, we wanna attract other people that are professional and that is what we're looking for. So I think of tone as like, what is your brand, right? What are you okay with putting out there into the world? Um, I see roofers all the time that put out content that's dropping F bombs loves and right.

Talk about how, you know, badass they are or whatever. And that's fine. Like if that's your brand, you want people to be attracted to that, then that should be your tone and that's what the people that are gonna come attract you that don't care about that stuff. Right? Which I know you and Tim talked about the other day, if you cuss in your content, um, it just builds a level of trust with people.

Um, but anyways, so that to. . That's, to me, it's my opinion, what I see is it's based on what you want your branding to be with yourself. Me, I'm a little bit, I got the teacher in me from 15 years of being, being a teacher. So I, I tend to lay on the professional dad joke side. Um, and I don't do, and that's just, that's how I am.

I, I'm more of a, I'm here to help. So my brand is gonna be a slight dry humor because that's me and I want to attract people that are okay with that. Uh, and then just know that I put off the tone of I'm here to help. So like, everything is helpful, everything is educational. So based on what your brand is, what you want people to trust you as, who do you want to attract?

I think that is how you set, set your tone based on your content.

[00:14:15] Mike: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I. You, you really, you hit the nail on the head. And, and for me, for instance, right? Like, I wanna work with people that are professional, that run their business like a business. But at the same time, I hop into a spacesuit and I'm like, well fuck this. This is fucking insane.

But like, that's the authentic me, right? That authenticity is important for me for people to see that eventually wanna work with me, right? Because if it was all tight, knocked and very professional and then they hop on a call with Mike Stearns, I mean, it, it may be traumatic if they're not equipped for that, right?

So, uh, like I try to foreshadow what the experience is gonna be like. Cuz that's me, that's who I am. I don't, you know, I, I talk like a trucker, I think is what they say. And I'm fine with it, right? Because I know that a hundred percent of the time, that's the experience that you're going to get. And some people might disengage from my brand because of that.

and that's fine, right? Like, that's, that's okay. I'm all right with that. You know, ideally I'd like to be able to work with every single person and make as huge of an impact as I can. But at the end of the day, not everybody is compatible. Uh, and you know, if that's the case, then uh, I wish you the best. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's my take on it.

Right? And your, your authenticity is shaped by your experience. This is who you are. So yeah, we're gonna get some, some dry humor and some dad jokes. Things like, um, you know, another thing about your business that nobody cares about, right? That's funny because you know a lot of people, but here's, you do it very, very tactfully, right?

Because you talk about something, it's very attention grabbing, like, and there's a joke behind it because a lot of people fall victim to doing what you're doing, but then you provide a solution in it. Like, this is good. It actually is important to acknowledge this. That your family owned and operated, but like get to the story, talk about why it's, it's important so that you can develop and build upon that to where it actually does differentiate you as opposed to just being seven syllables on the landing page of your website.

So, good job.

[00:16:25] Jordan: So it's funny you say that, you mentioned that. So I, there's a TikTok and I stay and I get on social media to study more than I do consume, but every once in a while, yes, I get caught down the vortex of, of uh, social media. But, um, there's one guy on there that says there's things I wish I knew when I was in my thirties and, and I laugh cuz it's relatable cause I'm not, I'm almost outta my forties into my forties.

And, um, anyway, and I was like, man, what could I do that would be fun with the same opening statement, but super helpful at the same time? And I said, I'm gonna have to do a bunch of these for it to catch on. And people go, oh, I see what he's doing. Um, and so anyways, so I was like, all right. Common, you know, common things that people say about their business or claim about their business that nobody cares about, right?

And it's always the same generic crap that you see on websites, landing pages. I make these claims about my business and I'm like, all right, so we need to talk about those and then we need to talk about how do we make that better. Um, and so it's, it's the funny part on the front end and back end. And um, so I try to mix that in my content.

It's not always driven in, in the same direction, but, um, I feel like most of it's pretty helpful. It gets people to think, does everything I say right in there? Probably not. Um, but it is a lot better to say, um, Hey, we are set up here in Buffalo, New York. Because I grew up here. I love it here. Um, and I like to, you know, I'm a big Bills fan and I want to be able to service this community cuz it means a lot to me.

Cuz this community gave a lot back to me, right? It's way more impactful than we are a hometown homegrown business. Um, and I think that's where people need to remember those things and be very descriptive. And that's hard if you're not, I mean, if you don't know enough about marketing, like, hey, I know how to do this specific thing really well, um, but I don't know how to market my business.

Um, then yes, you need that help. And I think, I'm hoping that that is something that will continue to catch on and people go, oh yeah, it's the common, you know, common claims guy, uh, . So I'm gonna continue to pump it out there and um, and hopefully that'll be helpful and get people at least thinking about how they market their business, how they put it online, um, so they can start, you know, separating themselves from competition.

Cause that's what it's all about.

[00:18:32] Mike: Yeah, that's a fact. And again, you do, when I first saw your first one, I was like, I like this. And as I've seen more and more of 'em, I'm like, that's a fucking brilliant idea. All right. So I'm gonna ask you a question, and I want you to be honest. How can Mike Stearns an Ascend Digital agency make their content better?

[00:18:50] Jordan: Ooh, that's a good question. More, more content in your suit.

I think. Do you have more content in your suit? I don't know. Like that? I would say someone love the space if I'm looking at the content. Yeah. Um, let's see. How could you make it better? I haven't studied your content, so it'd be hard for me to say like, Hey, let me listen to what's going on. Let me see how people are interacting.

I have to look at the comments and see what's up there. I think you've found, like the podcast is amazing. Like it's, uh, I, I listened to it when I was driving to Roof Con in Orlando. Um, , I tune in now as often as I can. If I'm, um, you know, if I'm working on something in-house that doesn't require my ears, uh, I'll listen to it.

And I think the education side is, is amazing. Uh, tying it to real authentic Mike. I think that's the part that that is. Um, and tying the, all those pieces together when you talk about content, I think that's good. But even I've seen some of your short form stuff come out now where it's not the, it's not the podcast and it's not, um, it's like you talking realistic.

Um, I think that stuff is there. I think, I think people need more of that. And I'm trying to remember what it was that popped in my feed the other day. You were talking about, oh, I wish I could remember what you were talking about. I was like, oh, I like this cuz it was a real authentic mike. And I was like, man, he's just being like down and dirty.

Like, Hey, you gotta fix this, gotta fix this shit. Um, and this is how you do it. Mm-hmm. , I think more the authentic Mike, just you, um, is, is, is so, it's so engaging to me. So. that I would say more authentic Mike one-on-one. Having that conversation with that one ideal customer that you guys have and and doing that, I would say that would be the one thing in your spacesuit

[00:20:41] Mike: Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that because I have also received feedback that like I was thinking about like ramping up the content. And it's weird cuz like with the podcast specifically, like they typically run an hour, hour and a half. I mean, I'll go two hours, whatever I want to do more. So I was thinking about maybe doing a segment where it's like 20 to 30 minutes of just me and the camera.

And actually my editing team was like this. I think this would be really good. But I'm like, you know, who wants to sit there and look at Mike's mug for 30 minutes on his soapbox? Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll stand on, like, I'll make a legitimate like soapbox that I stand on in the rocket suit while I sit there and I talk to the camera.

That'd be pretty emerging, right. . Yeah. Okay. Yes. All right. I would watch custom soapbox dealers near me. Let's see. Is SEO Game strong here? ?

[00:21:39] Jordan: Uh, that's funny. Yeah, I think, yeah, you have to be evolving with your content game though. Like, um, it, it can't, it can't stay in one static thing and it's gotta change.

It's gotta be different from everything else. And while in the, in the marketing space, I have people that, uh, I've had clients in the past like, Hey, I want my videos to look like Alex Mosey. Okay, why do you want that? Well, cuz it looks like X, Y, z Greg, what is your message? Like, that's more important. And so I, while I do that on mine, my videos, I edit that way sometimes, but I don't do it all the time cuz it's just, it's taxing.

Uh, it's a lot of work, but, , your message, your hook, and what is your message? And is it clear and concise to the point? Uh, and is it authentically you? Like those are the, the main things to get hook. What is your message? Is it helpful to somebody and is it you? And I think those videos you do when it's just you and the camera, you guys are making love to each other and you're letting 'em know how it is.

Uh, I, to me, those are my, those are my favorite videos. I'll watch those over and over again. Um, I think pod podcasts are hard though, man. Like, if you're wanting to pump out podcast content, I did. I had a podcast. I won't, um, you can go check it out and figure it out what it was. Won't talk about it. But, um, uh, I, I spent a lot of time putting some really good stuff out there, but that's hard to get.

I had to, um, it, it's hard to get people to, to, to buy into that. So it takes that engaging front end stuff first. So maybe, maybe just got my, you got my wheels turning for a second. How do we create mm-hmm. content. that's engaging and separate maybe a problem where content of why they need to listen to the Ish Control podcast.

Why? That's why you're my guy. You're not listening to the, so if you're not, listen, I always go back to the, alright, why, why would somebody, I mean, I love it. I know it. Cause I know you, um, and I and your stuff is gold. So I listen to it anyway, so I know that. But like, so if somebody that's not listening to it, why should they turn off whatever podcast we're listening to?

Or why should they listen to a podcast in the first place? And when should they listen to a podcast? And then why should it be what Mike is talking about? So now you've got three different things you need to address in content that's outside of the podcast and that that could help you pull more people into the gold that you're spewing in there.

So those are questions I think about, I

[00:24:03] Mike: think. Yeah, that's great. Noted, it's recorded, so we'll be able to reference this and, uh, we'll see if I'm one of those guys that just asks and doesn't follow up and do anything that somebody who has really good insights tells him to or if I actually do these things.

So stay tuned. That's why you should watch about three weeks from now. Cause when I circle back to this, you can see if, uh, if I actually care about what Jordan has to say.

[00:24:32] Jordan: Yeah. I, the answer's yes

[00:24:34] Mike: I do. And you won't be disappointed.

[00:24:36] Jordan: Yeah. Oh, I appreciate it, . I appreciate that. No, it's, um, it is, uh, yeah, I appreciate the, uh, the thing.

But it's a, it's a different perspective though, like for those people putting out podcasts cuz like how many podcasts are out there and people will put out shorts and clips from the podcast. I'm like, yeah, but you're doing what everybody else is doing. Like, how do you make it? Like why should people be listening to podcasts and why should we listen to yours?

Like, answer those questions. You know that, I think that's what people don't think about. It's your podcast solves a problem. . And if people aren't aware of the problem, then you've gotta make 'em aware. And the same thing. Um, I started putting out content when I started Presto Media a couple months ago, it was all about how to create really good content for contractors.

Mm-hmm. , I had a mentor of mine, um, from a while back. Uh, he's, he's a big content guy. He goes, Hey man, so I love your content, but like, you know, how's it going? I said, well, it's all right. You know, it's not a lot of engagement. He goes, yeah, cuz you haven't told 'em why they need to watch it. I was like, I was like, I was like, I love you and hatred at the same time.

You're right, right. You're absolutely right. He said, you've gotta put out more problem over content and you've gotta get 'em engaged into why they need to be putting content out, out as a contractor. He goes, cause I told him, I said, I have a lot of marketing companies reaching out to me wanting to do work with 'em.

And I said, he said, yeah, because they all understand the value of content because contractors just don't, some of them do, but the majority of 'em just don't, they don't get it. And uh, and I said, you're right. So I, I made a massive switch quickly and uh, and I made it, um, I made it a point to tie in how I put out content, um, into the problem.

We're a solution aware, um, and then, you know, make an offer. I've, I've tied that into what contractors should be doing, how I do my content. And then now really the, the, to me, when you hire somebody to do content, not necessarily SEO or Google driven, but social media content, you have to think about the constant 60% of people that aren't ready to buy right now, that are gonna be ready to buy at about six months, maybe three to nine months.

I say three to nine month ranges. And if you're not always engaging that 60%, you're gonna be chasing that 3% that are ready to buy now, or that 10%, somewhere in there is some three to 10% they're ready to buy right now. You're gonna be chasing that small margin. Mm-hmm. , why don't you constantly have content going out that's going to chase the massive margin at 60%?

I'd rather have 60% of a pie than three to 10%. Wouldn't you? .

[00:26:59] Mike: Yeah, for sure. And, and, and it's not only that, right? Like the, the quality of the opportunity is going to markedly improve and you're chasing that 60% if they know who you are and you've carved yourself out as an industry leader that can be trusted preemptively, you know, before they came into that 3% where now they're ready to buy.

I promise you the experience for your salespeople is going to be better if you have a strong brand and they trust you before because of the investment that you've made in

[00:27:30] Jordan: advance. Exactly. And that goes back to the original point of me saying that problem, where content is that investment in your customer saying, I'm here to help.

Yep. I'm here to help. And that's how you do it.

[00:27:43] Mike: Hmm. That's a really good point, man. You're just dropping some heat today, sir. So what's the, what's one thing that you see a lot of contractors make as a mistake when creating content?

[00:28:00] Jordan: The biggest mistake is just saying, Hey, if you need a roof, hey do you need new AC unit? It's just going straight for if you need this, I can do this. Mm-hmm. , that's it. Like, that's it. So the majority next to not creating any at all. That's the first thing of those putting any out because I would, I guess I would say the first thing's not creating any at all.

Because here in Birmingham, um, I'm friends with some HVAC guys here. I think I'm not if I'm friends with any roofers, but, um, I look at their pages and there is zero content coming out, Mike, there's zero. And I look at some of these guys, I'm like, man, like you could just die. I'm in town, man. Just hire me.

We'll come, create some killer content. Right? And you would automatically, in the next six months dominate your entire market here in Birmingham. Cuz nobody, nobody's doing it. Even the biggest companies are not putting out content. And here's what's crazy. So my mom had a roof put on three months ago. , she couldn't even tell you the name of the company that put it on unless she looked at receipts.

So how bad is it that you got the sale, but I don't even remember the name of your company. Like, how's, how are you gonna get referrals? So you almost have to think like you follow through with your content through the end. Like if nobody remembers who you are after they even bought from you, like they gotta look at the receipt, who'd I just spend 20 grand with?

And they don't even remember the name of your company. Like, wow, you're, you are in the grind and chasing money constantly, man. That's gotta hurt as a business owner. So I would say number one would be not putting out any content, but if they are putting it out, it's somebody saying, Hey, if you need a roof, I can put on a roof.

If you need a new Egg spec unit, I can put on Egg Spec unit. Like, that's, that's all they're doing.

[00:29:42] Mike: Yeah. I, I think that that is spot on and like, guys, think about it. . Nobody wants to be pitched at every turn. If I, you know, if, if every time you see me, I'm trying to sell you something, you're gonna be like, fucking Mike is so annoying.

And you're gonna want to divest from that relationship as quickly as possible. But if I bring you value, 30, 50, 70, 80% of the time, I feel like I don't do a good enough job pushing sales, like sales oriented content. I usually tell people like, I don't know, gun to my head, it should be like 80 20. 80 20 as far as like branding, problem aware content, things of that nature, like letting people know how you can help them.

And then like 20% like, Hey, you should buy from us. Right. And maybe that's right. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe some people say it's 70, 30, 50, 58, whatever the case may be. There is a balance there. And I, I don't think that I put off enough content, put out enough content to say like, Hey, you should buy shit from us.

But it's an opportunity to grow. Everybody has an opportunity to grow, and that's all we're trying to do is move the needle every day away from imperfect. I always say like, if you have imperfect over here, perfect. Here, you're, I'll never get to perfect. I know that. But if I could just move that needle a little bit further away from imperfect, it's all good.

Right?

[00:31:05] Jordan: Yo. Yeah. I don't know. It was funny you say that. I don't remember the last time you put a post out that said, buy my shit. Right? Like, I really don't, I don't,

[00:31:15] Mike: I don't because I really don't do it. .

[00:31:17] Jordan: Yeah. I, I put it out. See, and I do, and I think, and I think it has to be a balance of where you're in your business too.

Like, all right, I'm two months in. Mm-hmm. . Like people didn't know exactly what I do. So there's gonna be a lot of times that I'm gonna have to push, I'm gonna have to push Tambo a little bit more. Like people know who Mike Stearns is for the most part, right? You got enough referrals and clients and people knows who Mike is.

But I'm starting out all right, well now I, people gotta know exactly what are the things I can offer to the market, but Right. That's also meaning I'm putting out, so the past two months has been putting out just a ton of content on like, here are things you need to be aware of and, and, and just being as valuable as possible.

But I do, you know, it's a business, you gotta make money, so you gotta bring people in. So I've, I'm having to put a little bit more offer posts and it's really not more as an offer post that it's like it's, I'm, I'm reverting back to my problem and solution where content and saying this is how I solve it.

Um, and, and the offer is basically it's showing you guys that hey, instead of chasing the 10%, chase the 60 and that's how you do, it's with content and I can show you how to do it. So that's, that's, so I've had to put a little bit more offer post out lately. Um, and they don't. And just to know that not all your content hits.

You know, that's the part of the, not all of it hits, I'll put something out and I go, man, I nailed that and ain't nobody touching it.

[00:32:32] Mike: It happens. Yeah, it, I mean, it happens more often than, you know, the other side of that where it's like, you know, you put something out and it actually does hit, I mean, I've put out fuck 15 YouTube shorts for instance in the last week.

And if you look at 13 of 'em, it's like seven views, 88 views, 15 views, and one's got 3,600. And it's probably because I got Joseph Hughes on and he is just a fucking handsome guy and people wanna see him. Right. And I don't blame him , you know, but like the other content is good as well, but it's not as well received.

And part of that I'm sure is the algorithm part of that is maybe how it's edited. Part of that's the fact that I didn't use a trending song. I mean, there's so many things that are gonna impact whether or not people consume, engage, or even presented your content. Keep fucking going. Keep putting it out.

Keep it up. Don't stop.

[00:33:24] Jordan: What people forget though, content is evergreen. It'll always be there, you know, short of, you know, shit falling down, but it's going, not going in there. Let's say for instance, you know, if you're scaling and you using paid advertisement, right? Using Google, Facebook ads, whatever, um, when you stop putting money in that machine, that drip's gone.

Your content's still there, your brand is still there. So even if it doesn't hit right now, five years from now or a year from now, if you put it on YouTube, whatever, like no matter where it's at, people may go back later and see that, or you can go back later and see your growth in that. Oh, and go, oh man.

Matter of fact, I had a video pop up. I've been doing video content. 2006. I just did it differently. I didn't do it for businesses. I did it for students when I was teaching. And, um, long story short, I had to create, I had si I had 30 kids in a guitar class. All 30 ain't gonna play at the same time. So I had to create, this is one podcast for coming out, video podcasts for coming out.

So I started creating videos on how to play the guitar and they would put headphones on. They had, it was a one-to-one school, so they had a lot, lap laptops, whatever. And um, and they would just come into my office and I'd teach 'em one by one on the lessons I put out that week. So I would record on an old camcorder, put it into iMovie.

It was a crappy edit. Uh, so I started helping and doing content there. So I look at that content when I was a youngin, it was 18 years ago. Fif, yeah. 18. What's was, is that right date? I can't, yeah. 16 years ago to now. And it's like, my content's way better, but I'll put in the rep. So don't forget, it's evergreen.

Don't forget, you're gonna get better with it.

[00:34:56] Mike: Yeah. Two important points. For sure, and then you worked in the fact of like repetitions, right? If you know if you're going to the gym and you're curling 20 pound dumbbells for sets a ton. . I mean, you're not gonna move up to thirties by not pushing it, by not doing it consistently.

If you're a runner and you're running 10 minute miles and you want to get it down to nine minute miles, sitting on the fucking couch isn't gonna get you there. Right. You gotta put the reps in. So that's, yeah. I think that's, I think that's kind of overlooked, right? We like, we always say it about like millennials and Gen Z, but a lot of people have shifted towards like an immediate gratification mindset, especially in business, right?

They want it. They want it yesterday. And if I can't see the attribution of what I, what I'm doing and how it's getting me what I want immediately, I'm, I'm just not gonna do it. And that's a, I don't wanna say a grave mistake, but it's, it's an oversight for sure. And one that can, you know, impact your company in a negative way.

And that's not to say, like, if you're not doing video content or you're not putting out content consistently, you're not gonna do well. But I mean, you could do 7 million with great margin and like, yeah, that's objectively fantastic. But if you started doing content two years ago, maybe that's 7 million is 9 million.

And with no additional stress, right? Or, or minimal stress because of it, no additional money into Legion. Or maybe it's 7.7. It will never hurt you to put in the effort to do that content. And it's okay for the content not to be perfect. I saw a post of yours and I was delighted that you made yourself vulnerable to repost it.

It was whatever, seven, eight years ago. And you're like, my content sucked . It was so

[00:36:35] Jordan: bad, but,

[00:36:36] Mike: but you did it right? Yeah. Like you did it. It's fine. Like you don't, you, you wanna start off at your floor, you're not gonna start off at the ceiling, right? So get a baseline, get it done, get it out there. And then just like anything else in life, like be aware of and what you can do to optimize it.

And it's not saying you have to hire an an on staff editor to make sure they're editing all your shit. So it looks like Gary vs. You can do that, that's an option. But there's a lot of room between like creating shit content and doing nothing with it. And what Gary V's doing, or Alex Hermo or, or any of the people that you see online, consistently deploying content on every single platform.

Right?

[00:37:14] Jordan: Yeah. And I think, um, What I'm doing. I went down to shot video content, um, at a client's earlier in this week, and we were shooting. I don't, I don't always run ads, but I run ads for him because it, I've done it for two years. So, anyway, uh, long story short, we went down and shot everything with two of these.

everything with a road mic and two of these. Cuz what I wanna show people is that's all we've shot as video ads on as content is one of these, all his photos, everything. If you're putting it on social media, you don't have to have a videographer all year round . You don't have to have this like really fancy setup.

Like you just, you don't, you don't have to have it. So what we did was, I actually, matter of fact, um, I'm moving a, I'm doing a couple things. One, I'm getting rid of my nicer cameras. I bought a second iPhone and my goal is to show contractors that all you need, and this is kind of one of the thing I'm putting together, this is for down, down the road in, uh, several months.

I'm putting together an onsite package where I come and show you how to use your video and create content and implement that into your daily business and how you can do it easily and set up a, set everything up so you can do it yourself. And that way on the back end, if you want somebody to do some quick edits, , you can do some quick edits.

Um, and so right now I'm currently working on that because today you gotta look at like TJ McCormick too. Like the dude is does everything on his phone. I don't even think he uses an nice mic. Yep. And dude's got a hundred hundred thousand followers. So all you need is this. And with the new iPhones, like they're geared for, if you, if you watch what Apple's doing, they have, there's, there's, they have no competition.

They've cornered the market and they, I always wondered why are they upgrading their cameras? Why are they up cameras? Because video content, they know, they knew five years ago video content was gonna be the thing. . And so they keep upgrading and making it so easy to do it all in one place and you don't need anything else.

So they're just crushing their competition because they were five years ahead going, people are gonna be using their devices, they're gonna be putting on videos. So my goal is to show contractors how you can do it with just your phone. You do, you do need to do nice. Mike. I will say that phone. Nice microphone.

Um, which is like 300 bucks, right? Get you a road or whatever you use a dgi, um, and go out there and just create, create content every single day. And you're surrounded by it. It's hard for me to sit in my office and create, show you guys create content. Cause it'll just be my phone sitting behind me like this and me edit videos.

It does. So did you see the edit? I did right here? No, it's dumb. You know, like people don't wanna see that. So it's, I have to get creative. But you guys are in the field. I, we were, we were shooting. Um, for example, and, and if we gotta chop this off, let me know. Shut me up. But, uh, so I was down there, we're shooting videos for this guy and we had 30 frequently asked questions that I pulled from his content guy 30.

And he's gon, he answered them with just him and his face. We're gonna put 'em on a landing page and so whatever. We got a lot of stuff to do with it. But while we were there, he goes, Hey, do you mind. I got some guys coming to pick up a rail from my fence. They're, they're, they're just buying the fence directly in front of me.

Cool. So we went out and we shot video of him just loading it up, putting it on the trailer, how he did that, of the stockyard of where all of his fence is. And I shot photos and I literally shot that. Guess what? That's gonna be a multiple pieces of content. People see like the behind the scenes of how do we, how does it work from the stockyard?

How does it get loaded if you, if you want to just buy the material, this is what it looks like when you come pick it up. If you come pick it up from us. Right. Content behind the scenes, it shows the owner himself doing it and the people eat it alive. Um, some of the best engaging content that got shared, and I think gain leads from him was also, it was literally, we were at his shop and I was taking a photo to frame a video.

So sometimes when you, you to get an idea of what a video would look like, you take a photo and to get a framing shot. So I was doing that and it was just him standing there. Like I, it was an awkward pose. I put that up a couple times. It's got named leads based on the post. Really. We put out. . So like you, you don't, that's all you need.

That is literally all you need. So hopefully down the road you'll see me all put an offer out there to, to come on site and uh, and show you guys how to implement a content team on a budget or whatever, and how you do it with, you can do it with your own guys or whatever. And uh, yeah, create a lot of really great content, how to do it the right way.

Yeah, it's coming soon, .

[00:41:31] Mike: I like that shit because I think that a lot of contractors are kind of intimidated by the technology and like, dude, I'm just gonna say you guys have egos and you don't like to admit that you don't know shit. So like some of the times it's like you don't know, you're not gonna ask, so you're just not gonna do it.

And I promise you that's not the right approach. So, Within what you are going to do as far as onsite? Are you gonna train them as far as like how to upload something to YouTube, how to do a quick edit on your phone, how to transfer large files in a seamless way and share access. Is that gonna be part of the, the program?

[00:42:08] Jordan: Yeah. It'll be top down, bottom to top down. And matter of fact, I'm gonna end up giving it all away on How do you do it? Like literally I'm like, here, I'm gonna throw it in. I have a Facebook group that I'll put all the guides in cuz it's just cheap to put free guides, like put it on a Facebook group. Uh, anyways, I'm gonna throw 'em all in there and it's all gonna be free.

Like you get, you can learn how to do it free, top to bottom. I'm gonna put all the instructional videos, um, everything you're gonna it, so you're gonna know exactly how to do it. I'm just gonna give it away cause I don't like, there's no point. Like nobody might, uh, I guess Joe Hughes probably does a lot of this and he does a fantastic job of it.

He goes a little bit more in depth on the back end side, but as far as the front side. You know, nobody, nobody's showing 'em how to do this stuff, so I'm gonna give it all the way free. You can have it, I don't care. I can have competitors come in and take it and steal it. I don't care. Um, but if you need it implemented and you need help through the process, that's when, that's when the money should be made on my side is helping you implement.

But everything else, the information will be free. I'm just putting it, I'm taking it from a million places, putting it in one source given away. And I think that, I think it should be. Yeah.

[00:43:11] Mike: And I mean like, let's look at this and be honest with ourselves. That's going to help you because the majority of people aren't going to do it, even if they download the guide the same way, you can find a million fucking videos on how to work out to get that six pack.

And guess how many people don't have six packs and go hire a trainer. And maybe they get there after that point, but then they're paying somebody for a bunch of information that's already out there for free. Just because it comes down to accountability. And it's a lot easier externally to have somebody hold you accountable, get something done with you than it is to figure it out yourself.

Right.

[00:43:43] Jordan: Yeah. And even then there'll be a service offered on the back end where it's like, Hey, I, I could do all this stuff, but could you just take care? I don't have time. I don't wanna do it. I wanna outsource the back end of this. Right. And get it all posted. So like that's, um, and that solves a problem there cuz not everybody wants to build an in-house social media team, and nor do they wanna get their business to that point.

Like that's, you're talking about some big players in the roofing industry that, that have that. But you know, they hire one videographer full-time. Um, and that's money. I mean, that is money. It's helpful, but it's money. So I'm trying to reduce the cost, show 'em how they can do it, be authentic at the same time.

Um, and, and do it on a budget that's, that's still gonna be effective. Still gonna drive people they want, um, and, and help 'em grow, man. Like that's, that's the goal.

[00:44:26] Mike: Yeah, that's, I like that there's such a negative connotation around like selling somebody something, right? Like people, like people hear like, or they feel it comes in the radar that they're being sold and they're like, I feel like the, the, the emotional reaction is like negative, but it's like, it's not necessarily a negative thing for somebody to tell you something if it's of service and it's going to help you.

Now, the tactics that people use to sell vary quite significantly, and some of those can be rather off putting and, uh, disingenuous, misleading, or outright lies. That does happen. It happens every day in every industry, and it's a, it's a tragedy. But yeah, I always found it interesting, like, well, I had a guy telling me a couple weeks.

I was like, I don't want to be sold. And I'm like, well, you're calling me for a service that you need and want us to perform. I don't know how we get to the point of doing your service unless I sell it to you.

you know, I'll get like in my, like my, anyone who's done business with me, they know that like my sales style style is. , let's talk about your issues. Let's talk about your problems. You're gonna have your, your preconceived understanding of what you need from me, but I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions to make sure, like that's actually what you need.

So, for instance, seo. I need seo. If you're a company that did $350,000 in revenue last year, and you're trying to get to six, $700,000, you don't need seo. Uh, it's probably not the right time for you to invest into a legitimate SEO strategy,

[00:46:10] Jordan: right? You have business problems that need to be fixed. .

[00:46:13] Mike: Yeah. Like you, you need to focus on systems, processes, how you're gonna grow your team.

Yes. How you're gonna get more leads but not leads 18 months from now. Like leads now, same thing as if you're trying to two x from a million to $2 million and you say, okay, all that I want to invest into my company as far as a marketing and advertising budget is $40,000 and you're steadfast on that $40,000.

Let's figure out some paid advertising that you can do to help get you there. Let's work consultatively on some things internally that you can do yourself or have your salesperson that you have due on the company's behalf to generate more opportunities. Yeah, so like, yeah, it's just it. It's always been interesting to me ever since I got into sales, especially like how some people get real high alert and put off by the fact that somebody is approaching them to sell them something.

Why do you think that is? Why do you think there's that. Do you, well, do you agree that there's typically like a negative connotation or, or emotion that's evoked from like, somebody trying to sell something? And if you do agree or don't agree, why or why not?

[00:47:18] Jordan: Yeah, and I'll, I, I agree and I'll, I'll give you my, I'll give you my, I guess my thought process behind it.

So, um,

eighties and nineties, I would say you had to be sold. . All right. Sales guys had to sell to you seventies, eighties, nineties. You had to sell people into stuff cuz he had to convince him that this was gonna work. Whatever. I, I feel like that was the philosophy and I think somewhere in the two thousands, um, you had some people making way and making headway in the, in the sales space where like, hey, like we've gotta change the way people think.

Cuz I, I, I do, I do follow a bunch of salespeople cuz I have a business, I have to be able to sell my products and services. So I have to make sure I do it in a way, like my content isn't gonna always just be the thing that wins. Will it help? Yes. Um, but at the end of like, they may trust me, at the end of the day I still have to say, make an offer and go and make it to where it sounds like a no-brainer.

So I follow people like Cole Gordon and, uh, Jeremy Minor and some of these big name players in, in the sales industry. And so what they've done a great job is turn off sales, re some of 'em call it sales resistance. Where Yes, I, I agree. Some people just are so turned off by sales, um, and they make it very.

Empathetic to what the person is going through. Um, and I think if you're, if you're selling jobs or whatever you're selling for your company or business, you have to be thinking about what is that person going through? Like what, what, what are they experiencing in the moment? And am I being empathetic to that?

So I'm gonna relate it back to something real quick. That's not even having anything to do with business. So when I was in, when I was a teacher, I was a band director. Cue the band jokes. Go ahead. One time at band camp, all of us know, wait, hold

[00:49:02] Mike: on, hold on one second.

[00:49:10] Jordan: I gotta get sound effects. So anyways, I was a band director and I was in sales. I had to sell kids on what band could do for them, not as, they could be a great get scholarships or anything like that. They could make money or they're gonna learn to play an instrument. What kind of person are they gonna be from sixth grade?

to 12th grade and when they graduate I had to sell 'em on that vision and how it was better than sports. And in Alabama that's hard cuz sports are are king. It just is, you know, out football, it's just king. So I had to sell kids on why, what band is gonna do for them all down the road. So like I, when I learned how to be a leader and teach leadership and be empathetic to those people, that to the kids that I was teaching band programs grew, I would double in size because I would show kids and then we would live it every day and remind them, you know, I had to show them where they're gonna be, what kind of transformation they're gonna have.

So when in your business to go back to business now, it's the same thing. You have to be able to show them, be empathetic to where they. and then, and, and then show them how it's gonna take care of their problem, um, and do it in a way that makes them the hero in the whole thing. Uh, matter of fact, I just finished a bunch of content on making the customer the hero in your content, right?

I know like most people are like, Hey, well I'm the one that's fixing their problem. I'm the hero. No, you're not. Like, they don't care about your business more than you take care of the problem. Um, they only care that much, and it's just the reality. So when you're doing selling to turn away resistance, and it's hard, it's simply just being empathetic to where they're at, just showing 'em a transformation and then it's okay to ask for a sale.

And I think that's the last part that most sales training people will tell you is like asking for the sale. Are you ready to move forward? And I think that's really hard for people, um, because of that, because they've got, they've got the preconceived notion of a customer. , uh, they, they don't wanna be sold to, like you said.

So if I'm asking 'em for a sell, they won't take it. Like I, they just have to ask me. And I think that's, I think that whole level of questioning and alignment with yourselves and with your business. And the last thing I would say on that is, is just being wholeheartedly confident that, that your service is gonna completely take care of 'em and being confident in that.

I think that's would be the last part there to be confident in the sales side. So I agree. Yes. Sales resistance is, is there people don't wanna be sold to. Um, and, and, and it's, it's hard as a business owner, it's hard as, as a sales representative to, to be able to be empathetic and, and see their side of things and, and walk 'em through the transformation, uh, and do that content helps, um, case studies help, all that stuff helps.

But yeah, I agree man. I wholeheartedly agree. If all of that makes sense, I try to tie it into a story. Um, stories are important.

[00:51:52] Mike: Stories are important for sure. . So you mentioned making your customer the hero of the story, right? How do you, how do you, what's the best way to do that on like a website and what's the, what's the percentage of, you know, you should talk about things that would build trust with your company versus making them a hero.

[00:52:19] Jordan: If we're talking about websites, I'm gonna put that question back on you cuz you're the web design guru. Me, I, I, if I'm thinking content, here's what I wanna read. And I, I did a video on this too, matter of fact, I was editing it, changing, and I think Tim Brown talked about this too, switching the word around from, we do this to you talking about the customer making the chains there.

So like, for instance, so like an example would be like, hey, like, so in content, let's say content from it, hey, you probably learned, let's say you probably learned that you know, you or you probably found this type of leak, you probably found a leak. In the corner of your wall, of your singing or whatever, you've probably already learned that it is, it could be this problem or this problem, right?

So in those first two sentences, you didn't say, there's nothing telling them that you, you made them the hero by saying you've already done your research. Right? And you've already figured out what the problem could be, right? So like to me right then and there, you've made them the hero of their own story.

Like, I did this myself. I figured out, I saw the leak, I figured out what the problem was. You should solve that problem. Or like, you probably learned that these are different ways that you could solve this problem your way. And when you're doing it in content your way is the prime way that could be solved, right?

That's when you start getting tricky with the messaging. Your way is the way that the problem should be solved. Um, so anyway, so what, what I, what I see there is you've just made them the complete hero of that entire customer journey of like, you figured out this, you did that. Look at what you did. That's amazing.

If you, if you're ready to make the solution though, like you can make the decision and you can choose us and here's why. So now you've got all this, you, you, you, you, and there you got your why at the end. So to me, I see that as, as making the customer the heroes. Cuz you, you refer back to what they did to figure out their own problem, discover it, find a solution more than likely your business.

Right? If you made them there. So as far as now, web content, I don't wanna speak on that. I would assume it's similar cause I don't do web design. So, uh, I have done websites. They're not that great. I built my own. It sucks. I need, I need to call Mike to fix it. Um, I built my own site in about two weeks. Just cause I needed, um, I just needed something up to sh showcase products.

But anyway, so I, to me, making them switching around to the word you and making them the hero and that they discovered all these things, they figured it out. That's way more impactful and powerful than saying, these are all things we can do to solve your problem. .

[00:54:50] Mike: Yeah, I like that. I also like what you said about like having confidence in your product and asking for the sale.

I would take it a step further and if you are, if you have the confidence in your product, assuming the sale. Yeah. And if you have a sales process to where you've drawn out the objections, you've isolated the issues, the objections, you've already put those objections out in advance by strategically asking those questions and providing the value and solutions that your company brings to the table.

Assuming the sale, like you, here's what some people would say, and this is the feedback that I've gotten in the past, you know, when doing some consulting for people, it's, well, I, you know, it gets awkward if I assume the sale and then they push back and it's like, well, I feel as if. If you've delivered all this value and you are really, you're the best solution.

You should, I feel like if you run a business, you should feel like you're the best solution for your target market. There should be a level of uncomfortability on the homeowner's side if they're not going to choose you, and you should sit there and stare at them and wait for them to tell you why they're not going to choose you.

Right. I agree. I don't know. Right. Like, because you're gonna get the false objections. Right. And if you, and again, if you've asked the right questions throughout your sales process, you can kind of go back to those. Well, yeah, but it's just a matter of price. I, I understand that Mr. Customer. I mean, a roof, you know, you're protecting an investment like your home and it's, it's not cheap.

I get that. But then you can go back to issues with investing with the wrong company or finance options that you've presented to make that roof more affordable. or other ways that you've talked about leveraging other opportunities to, to pay for the roof in a way that's less draining, um, on your finances.

You know, some people want to use a credit card, some people want to use financing. Some people you know, are gonna do a home equity loan. Uh, I mean, there's tons of difference. Some people use savings, whatever. It's fine. But you know, if you've, if you've drawn that out on the front end and talked about options that are available, what you've seen your customers do in the past to make this situation less stressful, uh, and provide them with those solutions along the way and trial close them.

So when you are going through all these great points about your company, or ways they're gonna pay for the roof, or you know, how an improper installation can completely fuck their warranty, . Ask them if they understand why that's important. Ask them if it makes sense. Ask them if they could see how that could make a difference in their roofing project.

And why choosing the right contractor the first time is really, really important. Cuz then guess what, at the end of that conversation, when they're talking about getting three bids or they've got two others that they've gotta consider, you can ask that question. Well remember when we talked about mm-hmm.

and then shut up.

[00:58:13] Jordan: The hardest part is getting people to shut up. Yeah. On the sales side, I just looking at 'em going, what do you wanna do? I had a, I had a, um, before I started my company, I had a job interview. Um, somebody invited me to work for their sales organization as a. Training coach helping new sales reps in the high ticket market.

So he did this on me guy. I won't say what company it was fan. They're fantastic though. Um, anyways, he, he did it on me. I talked to the head guy, like they put me up top and, uh, which is really weird. I'm like, dude, I'm a content guy. But, uh, anyways, long story short. So he, he looked at me at the end and he's looking to sell me on the job and he is just like, so where do we go from here?

He didn't say anything else because I was like, ah, I'm on the fence. I could do this, but it's not working on my skill. I could figure it out. And he just looked at me and said, where do we go from here? And he didn't say another word. It was an awkward, like one minute. And I was like, holy crap, crap. . I ended up turning down.

But he was so good at just keeping his mouth shut. Um, and I've seen his sales training and, and a lot of people forget that. They don't let that awkward silence, they let them affect them, but more than the homeowner. And some people will see that as bad on the sales side. Like, well, you're trying to rip somebody off.

Well, not necessarily. Like it goes back to what you said. If you're confident in your product is gonna help them, and you don't wanna see them get ripped off by somebody else, it is your duty to hold that silence and be uncomfortable as possible until they decide, Hey, I need, you're the best option. It is your duty in your service to help them decide if you know for a fact your company's the best that you need to hold that awkward silence until they go, yeah, you know, you're right.

Let's do this, and then you, boom, get it done. To me, it's your duty.

[00:59:56] Mike: Yeah. And, and honestly, I in my experience in, in selling and being sold too, the transition from the pitch to the clothes is what people struggle with the most. Like, and if you're, if you don't have a good sales process, that only makes it more challenging to transition into that close.

And it's like, I don't know. I talked about assuming the sale, like how do you assume a sale in a, when you're pitching a homeowner on a new roof? Well, you've gone throughout the value. You've got the, the, the customer, the perspective customer to acknowledge the value every step of the way. So in my mind, there's no reason they wouldn't choose you.

So, I mean, the assump, the assumptive close would be all right, great. So I could have somebody, uh, I could have the crew out Tuesday of next week. We can get it wrapped up. It might take a day or two, you know, or we'd be looking into the following week, Wednesday, give them an AB option and then wait.

Disclaimer, I'm not a sales coach. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are way better than me at sales, but fundamentally, there's just small tweaks that you can make to your sales process that, that really could make a, a market improvement to your closing percentages.

[01:01:13] Jordan: Yeah, and I, I would say listen to Jeremy Meer has a, another way of approaching that too.

He's a big sales, I don't know if you know Jeremy Meer or not. Um, he's somebody to listen to if you're looking at sales. He, he coaches sales across multiple industries and, um, He, his biggest clients are like Google, like an entire department of Google raised their, their pricing and how they structure their sales inside Google.

Like it was a massive deal. Um, but he helps all industries. I've seen a lot of roofers follow him, uh, and, and trying to fix their sales process, and he calls it any pq, but he's a great person to follow. If you follow his content, you could, you could probably change your closing percentage by like 10, 10% by just following and implementing like little things in his content.

Um, so Jeremy, mine or somebody, that's great to follow, but, um, and I think to me, if there's gonna be anything you're gonna get really good at in your business, it's not a freaking sale, right? Like, I mean, think about this. If you, if your margins are in good place or whatever, like, well, I can take 20 leads and let's say if I change my closing percentage from, you know, say 10 or say 20 to 30, like that's a 10% increase in your business every month.

Do that month over month and now like you spent less money or done less advertising or less work on the front end and made more money on the front end. So like to me, if you're gonna train and get better at something, get better at selling something.

[01:02:40] Mike: I like that. And I, I think I want to add something to that.

So Jeremy Minor, great resource and there's a ton of other great resources that are free and you can follow. And it doesn't mean just because person B, C, or D doesn't align with the approach of person A. That person A is wrong. And it doesn't mean that you have to adopt everything that person A says. I look at it kind of like, I would look at the most fundamental aspect of starting a sales position, like a a script or a framework.

John CNET calls it a framework, like that's where you start. But like you don't wanna be four or five months in reading a script to a customer. You want to. The concept. And then you wanna take small pieces of that and manipulate that into something that's your own. And it's the same thing if you're taking like advice from different people on sales.

It's not an all or nothing approach. It's not, this is right, this is wrong. Part of that's gonna be who's selling and, and you know, if you give 'em that framework and have a process and you manage your sales team, a lot of people, you know, lay out a process and then, you know, there's no over oversight or management of it.

The process isn't going to work on its own. It'll make it easier, it'll make things more predictable. But we're still humans and, and those humans need to be managed, especially salespeople, I'll tell you. Yes. And we can argue, we can have a whole podcast. I'll bring a sales guy on here and people that run sales team, and let's talk about how to manage that sales team and what your role is as the manager.

Cause I would love to talk about that. So if you're listening and you run a sales team, hit me up. But yeah, like you have to, even if you have systems and processes, like you have to have somebody that holds people accountable to make sure that those processes are being followed. Yeah. I digress.

[01:04:22] Jordan: We'll wrap that into content for a moment.

Every objection you get in your sales process should be in your content. Yes. Period. Um mm-hmm. by matter of fact, same thing. We did this with a client. We, I went through his messages. I asked him, why were people not buying? what people were asking. I put 'em into questions. We talked about how they should be answered, um, and then we put 'em into video.

So, and what's makes it even more powerful is say you have a sales team for a moment. Um, if their guys are comfortable, they need to be on video. Their, your sales guys should be on video. They should be talking about, Hey, so this question comes up other day. It comes up a lot. We wanna go ahead and talk about this question now.

And then you, you talk about the question, right? And in the form of making them a hero or whatever, You know, if, if you were deciding to do this, um, you know, if you're deciding, you're like, Hey, look, I, I already know I need a new roof, whatever. And they're walking through the objection through a video. And if, if it's not just one person and you can get your sales guys to do it, um, it's even more powerful.

So tie it back into content once again. All of your frequently asked questions, all of your sales objections should constantly be put back into content. And then you should see, like, once again, to me, if you're putting out content, it's just another form of marketing. It's looking at your numbers. If you're doing Google Ads, if you're doing seo, if you're doing, you know, any paid traffic, you're looking at, okay, what are people engaging with?

What are they not engaging with? Um, and what's, you know, what's, what's powerful, what's not? Are people asking questions about this stuff? You know, and, and then look at your overall numbers for a moment and go, let's look at our content for the past two months. Let's look at engagement. Let's at all this stuff.

And then let's look at what are have, what have our sales done? Could they, could they be related? Did we change something? So, you know, as a business owner, obviously, and you know this, like you gotta look kind of, if you're looking at big picture, how is this content. Has content affected or helped our, um, our sales.

Now to me, if you're doing content on social media, I think you need to look at about three months at least minimum, really six, if you're just getting started, look at six months and then look at your sales and see how they've improved to me. Um, and I think those two go really well. Um, or even look at your conversions, cost per lead.

Have those gone down? I know you guys talk about that a lot on the Google side. Like has everything, has your, your advertising costs gone down if you're paying for ads, um, as you know, I mean, doesn't matter with seo, right? You're just, you're putting the work behind it, but has everything gone down and you're able to get more sales based on content put out?

And is your, is your advertising dollars going lower? So I think all that should be considered, um, and looked at as a whole and, and just continuing that loop of adjusting objections and putting out in your content and then, and tracking those numbers, and then seeing how you can improve the content or ask the questions better or phrase them better or make them more relatable to the customer.

[01:07:04] Mike: Yeah. Um, I, I mean, every element of that, of the information you just set forth, I wholeheartedly agree with, and guys, think of it this way, imagine this. So you have a customer, they're, they wanna buy a roof for their, you know, you're an H V A C guy and it's time to buy a new furnace or whatever, like you're a foundation contractor and you know, a foundation's gonna be expensive.

Think about it this way. What if you had, you have a YouTube channel and you have a playlist, which is all the questions that should be asked relating to purchasing your product or service. Now your salespeople can leverage that as a resource and just send them a link to your YouTube playlist. It's like, look, and even if the meeting went as well as it could be, Hey, by the way, we've been doing this a long time.

We've dealt with a ton of customers, by the way, check out our reviews. But we created a resource guide for homeowners. based on the feedback that we've gotten over the last 20 years, 10 years, whatever. Here's a link. These are some things that I want you to think about as you're making this decision. It can be a part of an automation when it hits, you know, appointment set.

Maybe we send it before then, right? So you go into Job Nimbus, the appointment set customer gets an email with a link that talks about 15 of the most important things to consider when you are purchasing a new roof. And guess what your salesperson's gonna talk about somewhere in their sales process.

[01:08:32] Jordan: All 14.

Mm-hmm. .

[01:08:35] Mike: So, and then, you know, you could take it as, I mean, the, the possibilities are endless. You can build out a landing page for each one of your sales reps on their, on your own. With an intro talking about who they are. You can make, give them an opportunity to put other videos up there that, you know, you kind of just embed from YouTube to create a personalized experience.

So like when they're out knocking doors or they're doing door hangers, or they're getting really active in social media community groups. Right. Um, now

[01:09:06] Jordan: if you need a landing page rep pages Pro, by the way, for reps by the way, sorry, I gotta, I gotta throw the plug in there. Um, it's all good. Um, keep going.

No, you're right, you're right on the money. And I have a story that will back up what you're saying, so keep going. Keep going.

[01:09:21] Mike: Yeah. Well, I mean, just as a salesperson, you know, regardless of the industry you're in, . If you are doing things to generate opportunities, you wanna make sure that you're getting credit for the opportunities that are coming in because that's going to impact your commissions if you saw them.

You don't want things that you are doing as far as like feet on the street pounding the pavement to go to salesperson B. So as an owner, if we acknowledge that and understand that that's, that is the thing that is the case here, and we create all these individual landing page for our sales reps. Now when we do, you know, we take direct mail through dope and send it out to customers, we can do it by a sales rep and hey, when they scan that QR code, they're gonna come to the sales rep rep's page.

Right? Or when they post this link in the social media group, we know that they're gonna come to John's personal page and we'll be able to attribute this customer to John and make sure they get scheduled with John. And guess what John's gonna do? John's gonna be a lot more fucking excited about doing all the things he doesn't wanna do for self John, because there's that transparency there.

People want transparency. Mm-hmm. .

[01:10:22] Jordan: Yeah. No, I agree. And it's funny you said that. So we took. Kline on Monday. We're, we're, now we're running, we're running Facebook ads for this guy cuz that's, it's a new product. It's really the only thing you can do. Um, people aren't searching for it specifically. So anyways, we're running Facebook ads and we're adding to his automations on the backend.

When they book, or when they at least fill out the form, they're automatically gonna get a, a, a link to a landing page that says, Hey, this is what you need to be ready to give us when we give you a call to provide an estimate and here's why. And so literally they click the link, it'll be a list of videos of him, the owner, mm-hmm.

going through each of those one questions that he gets asked the most often when he is on the call. So when they get on that call, they know who they're talking to. , they're gonna already be ready to trust him. Right. Um, and they're gonna be ready to give those answers and they're gonna be more likely to understand why they're giving those answers.

And some people are like, I just want a price. I'm like, well, I can't just give you a price. Like materials change, they go high, they go lower, they'll change every month. Right. That's the hard part about contracting. So like the, it allows him to get as many objections outta the way and build some trust and have the, have the person prepared.

Like, what, why would you not prepare somebody to get on the phone call with you and surprise 'em? Like why would you not prepare 'em every step of the way to be prepared and make it as seamless as possible? So like, always think about the customer journey. Like where, where can you improve and prepare them for the next step and, and make in getting the salary?

Like how did that happen? Right. I did that in teaching. Like I would teach kids from, uh, and I, I'll just relate it to there. Cause that's the most, the, the thing I've done for the longest is like, why would you. Like, I taught high school kids. I'm like, I taught them from like, here's how you come in the room.

Here's how you, you know, here's how you get ready to warm up and all this stuff. Here's how you get ready for a football game day when we go in football games. Like, here's the whole process that has to happen. And my leadership, my entire leadership had to do it all. I taught 'em, I showed them, and then I had to tell 'em, they had to figure out how to improve it.

So anyways, long story short, being, being engaging and, and showing people every step of the way and making it easier for them to know what's gonna happen on that call, what's the next step? Being, being honest about that stuff just makes it, God makes it so much easier. So, yes, everything you said wholeheartedly is everything that I'm doing and, and doing for clients.

And, uh, any good marketing company should be doing that.

[01:12:42] Mike: I like that. Yeah. And it's, you had mentioned something as well that, uh, peaked an interest to me. It's, you know, as a contractor, it's hard for you to price. And, and people, my clients have gotten this and I've gotten this feedback. It's like even, you know, we developed an instant roof quote app a year and a half ago that we use in conjunction with Google Ads to drive a lot of traffic.

And like the pricing thing always comes up and how accurate is instant Roof quote or, or just a cold lead that's like roofer near me and they land on the website. Like, I want a price, guys. It shouldn't be that challenging for you guys to field that call. It's, it's very simple. It's, you know, we're, we're providing a service and there's a lot of variables that are gonna impact the price, you know, so, and then ask them the question, what kind of experience would it be for you if I gave you a quote of $10,000?

And then we came to the house and realized there were three layers of shingles that we had to tear off. That requires way more man hours, that requires an increase in dump fees and then come to the end of it. And now we gotta quote you $15,000. What is your experience with my company gonna be like? and they're probably gonna tell you it'd be a shitty experience, right?

So we hedge against that. We have someone come out, we make sure that, you know, we can give you as accurate at a price as possible, you know? And now they're, they're educated and guess what? They might tell you to fuck off and fantastic. You're better off without 'em, I promise you. Right? .

[01:14:00] Jordan: Oh yes. Oh, you don't wanna deal with that?

I'm like, that's fine. Go get, go get somebody cheaper down the street. And when they mess it up, you're like, crap, I gotta fork out the money. Now. You just paid double and triple.

[01:14:10] Mike: Yeah. Like, so that's, uh, yeah. So, and there, there's, so I think about like the automation thing. I got my furnace replaced a couple years ago now, and the company that I was using sent me like an automated email.

When I booked the appointment. I confirmed it. It's like, Hey, we appreciate you using such and such H H V A C, I'm not gonna plug them. , unless y'all want to pay me. No, I'm just kidding. Um, it was Emerald h vc and they came in and they, they swapped out the old unit and it was great. But before, as soon as I set that appointment, within like 15 minutes, I got a text message link and I clicked the link.

These people are curious and it's like, meet Colin Colin's your technician. There was a little blurb and there was a video. So I played the video and he talks about how he's been with the company for seven years. Don't worry about your furry friends, cuz I love dogs. I've got two dogs on my own. It was very personal and like, you have to understand that there's gonna be varying levels of, of comfortability when they're, someone's bringing a stranger into their house.

Right. So let's assume people are gonna be very uncomfortable because if they're comfortable, we stand to lose nothing. But if they're uncomfortable and we don't make them feel comfortable, we stand to lose a lot. Mm-hmm. , right? So everything to gain, nothing to lose, let's cater to that. Let's give them some personalized intros to talk about what, who it is this strange man that's gonna, or woman that's gonna come, sell them a roof.

Who's gonna sit at the kitchen table, build a rapport? Hmm. Yep. It made me feel super good. Mm-hmm. , right? And I, and I bought from them and I don't know how much of an impact that made in my buying decision, but they did it and I bought from 'em and it did make me feel good when I was watching it. I can say that as an absolute fact.

Yeah. So if there's 10 different things you can do, do 10 different things to make somebody feel comfortable in their choice of choosing you to, to buy. .

[01:16:05] Jordan: Yeah. And a lot of that, if you put the, the setup working in on automation side, like it's, you don't have to do a whole lot, right? Shoot a right, take your phone, put it in cinematic mode or whatever.

Shoot a nice video standing there, get a decent mic for 2, 2, 200 bucks, hundred 50 bucks, whatever. And then shoot the quick video. And the more like, the more authentic and real have 'em do a selfie video. Hey, I'm so-and-so. I'm coming out. It, it, they're on social media every day. It'll feel like social media.

It'll feel more trusting, right? Put that in there. Like, you just gotta think about, these are the little things you can do in your business to optimize and tweak. Of course, that is, if you're at that level, if you're starting out, obviously you're in a different, you're in a different ballgame. You're not thinking about all this stuff.

But, um, when you're, when you're really optimizing those things, and, and I'm gonna always bring it back to content, what can you do to educate and help? What are the things you can do before you even get to the point of sale to make it that much easier? Um, make it much easier for 'em and make 'em want to be like, you know what?

Let's just go with you. I'll, I'm gonna pay more money. Let's go with you.

[01:17:06] Mike: Why would somebody choose Presto Media?

[01:17:14] Jordan: I practice what I preach, what I'm asking you to do. I do it every day, and there's nobody else in that I know of in the contracting space that's gonna help you transform and reach audiences the way I can. So we're going to, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to make it the, them the hero for a moment. Uh, , I'm, I'm thinking about my messaging.

So if you see yourself as a company that wants to build a brand on social media, you just need simple guidance. That's all you need. You know, you need to do it, you know, it requires video, you know, it requires some research. You know, it requires engaging, you know, it requires investment. You know all of these things already, but you need somebody to actually help you implement it.

and somebody who does it themselves in their own content. That's what make Preser Media different, and we're only focused on contents. We're not gonna sit here and sell you on ads and stuff, like, I'm gonna leave that. Our sole focused content is, is content and building a brand that way. So we're not gonna teach you how to do ads, we're not gonna teach you how to do Google seo.

We're not gonna do that. We're not gonna sell you one of those services. I don't want to, we specialize just that and we focus on just contractors. Hmm.

[01:18:35] Mike: For someone who's not creating video content, what's that first step that they should take

[01:18:38] Jordan: today? Create, figure out. I, I always go back to the frequently asked questions.

What do you ask the most? Why people won't buy it from you? Or whatever rejections you get? Create 10 selfie videos and then don't ever post them. Mm. Create 10 selfie videos then, then don't ever post them. Then give yourself. , go back and watch 'em for about a month. You'll get comfortable with 'em. You'll be okay with 'em.

Then post. And then forget about it. Don't even look at it. Don't, I mean, don't even look at it. Don't even look what the engagement is. Oh, somebody comment says, Hey, I, I want maybe engage back, but like, don't even look at the likes of comments. Where

[01:19:22] Mike: should they post them?

[01:19:24] Jordan: Go hard on for contractors. Go hard on Facebook and Instagram.

I know TJ's gonna yell at me and be like, you should be on TikTok, but you shouldn't be on TikTok. If you're not comfortable with video. Like, if you can't rock out video after video after video and you're not comfortable with it, stay away from TikTok. You don't need it. Facebook, Instagram, um, Joe Hughes will agree with this.

He's, he, I think he tells his client the same thing. Go hard on those two platforms. Um, go deep, go wide. And when you can master those, and you're really good at video, six months down the road, a year down the road, start diving into TikTok.

[01:20:01] Mike: what's one application that contractors can use that can help make their content better or easier?

[01:20:10] Jordan: They know it's their business. They know how to market it. They know what people are asking. So doing the research part shouldn't be there. Um, it really, the, the one piece of equipment, whatever they need, that's what you asked, right?

One tool

right here. That's all you need. I mean, really is it? You can do your posts, you can do everything from here. Uh, if you're one man in a truck and you're putting up briefs, you can do everything from here. Get you an I, I say iPhone, dude. You're just not gonna beat it. So get you an iPhone, make it a company phone.

I don't care. Get your company Cam if you need to, but start taking photos before, during, and after and take videos before, during, after. That's what you need. .

[01:20:58] Mike: Yeah. And I'll drop a few things that I found helpful in creating our content, creating our thumbnails for like YouTube content and, you know, Google Drive, simple.

It's free up to a certain point. You know, if you're, if you're running a company and you got a couple people that you wanna share the, the videos or the photos with, create a drive in Google, you can Google how to create a Google Drive. It's very simple. And then you just upload from your phone, right?

Click share. There's a little person with a plus button next to 'em. You can add 'em, you add their email. Now everybody can access. All that information no matter where the fuck they are, right through the cloud. Uh, you know, so that's very helpful. Canva, C A N V A, like are you fucking kidding me with how simple they make?

I mean, they've got a billion templates. I think it's 10 bucks a month. I mean, you can upload your photo, like you can take a photo of me like this and just pull the background right off it. So it's just my stupid pose with nothing in the background. And then you can drag that into a template and next thing you know, it's me like this on top of Mount Everest.

It's fucking wild, super simple. Um, we transfer,

[01:22:10] Jordan: I'm sorry, go ahead. No, uh, I, I was gonna back to the Canva for a second. Um, I literally, anything that's overlaid of mine is all come from Canva. It is so, it is so stupid easy. And what's funny is I took a picture of you, , you probably didn't see it. It was one of my longer form videos.

So now you're gonna have to go back and watch my long form videos. Um, I took a picture of you in your space. Shoot. , it's in there and I pulled it out. I, so I took it from the internet. I stole it from your Facebook. Sorry. Um, I put it in Canva. I removed the background and I'd redownloaded it without a transparent background and I had it all done within a minute.

Like, so you're right. Canva is such a powerful tool. It's 15 bucks a month if you get the Pro PlanMe, which I say just go and get it. 15 bucks. Yeah. Um, and same thing with Google. Like you can get 200 gigs for like $2 a month. So like get those two things. But I didn't mean to interrupt you, but Canva is absolutely No, you're good.

I use it for all of my editing because it's 15 bucks a month. Like why would you not? Um, yeah, but keep going. We transfer .

[01:23:05] Mike: Yeah, we transfer. I mean, you can, the problem with like a Google drive, like if I'm uploading a, a video that's an hour and a half long, that shit takes a lot of time. And I've found through my personal experience, so.

It, it stops in the middle of it and you just lose the progress that you made and you gotta re-upload it. And I've had big videos that I've spent a day trying to upload that have stopped like three times. What I found was with we transfer, it compresses the shit out of it to where your upload and download time are significantly less.

So you can get your content to your editor much more quickly. Cuz that's what happens is, you know, you have a camera, it has an SD card, they're videoing shit. If you're using a camera, let's say, um, even if you're not, if you're using your phone and they record a a 30 minute clip, it's gonna take a while to transfer that.

We transfer. Super simple. . You literally put it in your email, hit upload, select the file, compress it, sends it. I think it's 10 bucks a month. I mean, I know we're breaking the bank here. Make sure you click the affiliate link below. I'm kidding. I'm not. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not paid by them. And this is not sponsored content.

I'm just trying to pour as much value on as possible. What else? Do you have any other apps that you use? Uh, in, in content. You think would be easy and helpful?

[01:24:20] Jordan: Yeah. Um, if you're doing video and you just need a free app, um, the most user, like if you're like, all right, I got the time, or I can teach a college kit or whatever, like you talked about in your content the other day, finding somebody local to come in and help you with content.

Um, and whether it be a college kit, use cap cut, um, to edit videos because it's user-friendly for TikTok, it's built for TikTok, but still all your reels and videos are gonna come out that way. So I would say cap cut is probably one of the best, most user-friendly. Free, absolutely free can do everything you want.

Um, as far as videos concerned, so I don't use it. I use a, I use a Premier Pro just cause it's more advanced. Um, and I could do more with it, but, uh, I would say Capco would be the other thing I would use. But I need to use, we transfer, by the way, , I'm glad you said that cuz I transfer my phone, I transfer from my phone.

I airdrop it into my computer. Um, but now I don't share it with anybody right now. So, but when I'm ready to share it, and I, I'm almost there to hire a video editor. Um, but when I do that, we transfer. I'm getting .

[01:25:24] Mike: Yeah, an airdrop is great guys. If you have a Mac and you have an iPhone, like that's typically what I do as well.

I'll take it from my phone, just airdrop that shit right there. And then if I've gotta send it out, send it via, we transfer. Easy peasy. Yes. So, dude, I am incredibly grateful for you taking some time spontaneously with me the day after Thanksgiving. I'm grateful for that. Thank you. Among many other things.

If somebody, you know, if people have questions or they decide that you are the guy for them and they want to come aboard, press the media. What's the best way for them to do that

[01:25:57] Jordan: right now? Just send me a message on Facebook. Um, you can follow my, my profile. The easiest thing is to send me a message on Facebook.

Facebook, or hit a comment on there that, that, that's the fastest way to get ahold of me. You can go to my website and stuff, but you're gonna get lost there. Um, , it's, don't get lost my website. It's just send me a message. You can see all my content on there and, um, yeah, and we will, we'll have a conversation.

I literally, my sales process is, why do you wanna do content? Like, I wanna know why you wanna do it, because I want to understand what your thought process and what are your expectations behind it. , you're not thinking, oh, I'm gonna generate leads immediately. Like that's not the purpose of it. And so I, I set those expectations ahead of time that like, Hey, look, some people will get leads right outta the gate.

They just do. It just happens to be that way. Um, but the expectation is you're, you're looking at this as a way to build a brand online. And so I, I make sure that we set those expectations up front. Um, and then I just ask you like, what I'm, I wanna make an understanding of what is your brand? Have you even considered what your brand is?

What is your voice like? Mm. What? I want to get into those questions and, and then I wanna figure out how comfortable you're with video. Um, while I have packages that don't include video, but I need pictures of you and your team. So you have to be willing to do X, y, Z. Cuz I can't be there to shoot photos for you, but I'll give you everything you need to.

Um, and so when you get on the call with me, that's, those are the expectations I set. And then if I'm like, Hey, you're not willing to do these things, you're gonna pay me money and you're not gonna see any type of results, um, and I'm not gonna be able to put out really good content for you with stock photos, like, that's not gonna work.

So be willing to put the, uh, some, the conversation is geared around all those things. What are their expectations of you? Uh, expectations of me. Um, and then understanding what, what's the purpose of the content? Were their,

[01:27:45] Mike: So you hear to hear first folks, Presto Media, if you need 20 to 30 leads this week, hit 'em up.

Jordan's gonna get you there again. I appreciate you brother. And with that being said, we go.

On this episode, Mike has Andy Near, commercial roofing contractor. Andy got his start right out of high school when he started his own contracting work. From there Andy & Mike deep dive into how he got his start, failing at some processes and figuring it all out! And scaled his business by implementing better business practices, figuring it all out from scratch, creating opportunities for himself, and adding value & credibility to the roofing industry!

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr ==== ==== ====

On this episode, Mike has John Senac, President of NTS. NTS provides an analysis of roofing products to determine the market, availability, and repairability for property owners, contractors, engineers, insurers, and adjusters.

Mike & John dive into how NTS cuts out the back & forth with the middleman, the manufacturer, and the suppliers. John goes into how NTS is creating efficiency in the industry for both the customer & the contractors.

They both talk about the 3 step sales process that is data proven that John implements himself.

Contact us! [email protected]

Let's Connect! ==== ==== ==== Website: https://bit.ly/3NQXXKK Facebook: https://bit.ly/3xH8VaT Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3RWTSyr ==== ==== ====