In this episode of Tales, Trails, and Taverns, Rob takes Joe down one of the darkest rabbit holes in modern American history — Project MKUltra.
Together, they explore how the CIA’s secret mind-control experiments began, what the agency claimed to be studying, and how far those experiments may have gone behind closed doors.
From government-sanctioned psychological warfare and drug testing to the disturbing involvement of figures like Whitey Bulger and Charles Manson, Rob and Joe unpack the known facts, the declassified documents, and the unsettling questions that still linger decades later.
Was MKUltra truly abandoned, or did it simply change names? Along the way, the conversation reflects on power, secrecy, and the lasting impact these experiments may have had on individuals—and society as a whole.
And because even the darkest stories deserve a moment of warmth, Rob and Joe close the episode by wishing all of you a very Merry Christmas and thanking you for spending part of your holiday season with them.
Pull up a chair, pour a drink, and brace yourself—this is one deep dive you won’t forget.

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Keep exploring. Keep questioning. And as always—stay spooky.