Modern Multifamily

Summary

In this short Modern Multifamily conversation, Mike Wolber speaks with Daniel Heller of Thesis Driven about the changing value of real estate data. Daniel explains how Thesis Driven combines industry reporting, proptech relationships and operator data, and why making unstructured information useful is still a challenge.

They also discuss the pressures facing parts of real estate, new opportunities for AI-native proptech startups, and Daniel's prediction that simply having structured data may no longer be a defensible moat.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Daniel Heller and Thesis Driven
00:53 Proptech relationships and the Operator Database
01:37 From unstructured records to usable real estate data
02:41 Market pressures and the startup landscape
03:29 Operators and AI-native proptech
04:22 Why “data is the moat” may be changing
05:29 Where to follow Thesis Driven

Takeaways

-Thesis Driven combines editorial coverage, workshops and operator-focused data products.

-Understanding how real estate firms and their related entities fit together remains a complex data problem.

-AI-native proptech firms are finding opportunities even as financing conditions challenge some real estate businesses.

-As AI makes structuring data easier, a database alone may be less of a competitive advantage.

Connect with the Guest

Daniel Heller LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-helller/
Company Website: https://thesisdriven.com

#ModernMultifamily #PropTech #RealEstateData #AIinRealEstate #ThesisDriven

Summary

The rental market can be improving without feeling recovered. Chris Salviati, Chief Economist at Apartment List, joins Mike Wolber on Modern Multifamily to explain what was changing in the October rental data and why the national picture looked so different from individual cities.

The conversation connects construction, AI hiring, hybrid work and renter preferences with decisions facing multifamily operators, marketers and investors. Chris also explains how an economics team earns trust with reporters and brings market understanding into a technology business.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Chris Salviati
01:25 Economics inside a real estate technology business
05:22 Earning trust with reporters and data
08:40 Reading the national rent report
12:16 San Francisco and the local supply picture
15:58 Remote work and the return to the office
20:36 Super commuters and secondary markets
25:06 The amenities renters will compromise on
28:18 A thawing market and the demand question
31:31 Research resources and staying in touch

Takeaways

• Improving rent growth and tightening occupancy can coexist with still-soft market conditions.
• Local hiring, supply additions and affordability explain why markets diverge from the national average.
• Hybrid schedules can widen the area a renter considers without removing the need to reach a job center.
• In-unit laundry is a practical amenity worth emphasizing when it is available.
• Reliable methodology and useful research help an economics team earn trust inside and outside a business.

Connect with the Guest

Chris Salviati LinkedIn:
Company Website: https://www.apartmentlist.com
Research and monthly rent reports: https://www.apartmentlist.com/research
Research team: [email protected]

Summary
Nick Deveau, Co-Founder and CEO of Grotto AI, joins Modern Multifamily fresh off Blueprint in Las Vegas. Host Mike Wolber, Chief Sales Officer at Apartment List, digs into Nick's path from a decade of vertical AI in hiring and healthcare to multifamily, why every operator he asked named vacancy loss as the industry's biggest problem, and how Grotto went from real-time call guidance for Weidner Apartment Homes' contact center to coaching the in-person tour.

The conversation then turns to leasing as sales: demand versus conversion, "Gong for leasing" and why active coaching beats scoring, the simple habit of asking for the application (and asking again), turning the "just looking around" objection into comp data for asset managers, and how wearables and smartwatches keep opt-outs under 10% in two-party consent states. Nick closes with the case for open integration ecosystems and Hillpointe's results: a 27% lift in tour-to-lease conversion and new-hire ramp-up cut from 90 days to 9. For multifamily operators, leasing and marketing leaders, and anyone selling technology into real estate.

Chapters
00:00 Why human interactions will be laid bare
01:04 Blueprint and spreading the Grotto gospel
02:13 From AI for hiring and healthcare to multifamily
05:28 From predicting renewals to Call Guidance and tours
07:07 Demand versus conversion in leasing
10:05 Leasing is sales and malnourished L&D teams
11:14 Gong for leasing: why coaching beats scoring
15:10 A new category for human performance at scale
16:32 Ask for the application, then ask again
18:55 One question on every tour for asset managers
20:56 Wearables, smartwatches and opt-out rates
24:22 Open integration ecosystems in proptech
28:01 Hillpointe's case study: 27% more leases, 9-day ramp-up

Takeaways
- Most operators name vacancy loss as the biggest problem, yet down-funnel conversion has been treated as a fixed engine rather than something teams can improve.
- Asking for the application, and asking again after the first no, is one of the highest-leverage leasing behaviors; one pilot doubled the ask rate from about 35% to almost 70%.
- Scoring a conversation is not a product; coaching is an active process that diagnoses issues, turns them into feedback and delivers it in a way that sticks.
- The "just looking around" objection is a chance to collect real comp data that helps marketing, asset management and revenue management.
- Framing recording consent around the prospect's benefit keeps opt-outs under 10%, even in two-party consent states.

Connect with the Guest
Nick Deveau LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-deveau-a6241379/
Company Website: https://grotto.ai

Summary
Dom Beveridge, Founder of 20for20, returns to Modern Multifamily for the eighth edition of his annual white paper, built on 20 structured, open-ended interviews with multifamily executives. Host Mike Wolber, Chief Sales Officer at Apartment List, digs into the word that kept surfacing this year (exhaustion), why a balance sheet industry finds three years of P&L focus so draining, and how centralization now looks settled for owner operators while third party managers still depend on their owners to roll it out.

The conversation then turns to tech bloat: community managers with more than 40 logins, the third of operators now running tech freezes and shedding applications, the VC funding model that quietly drives over-buying, and the 6 companies Dom calls AI first, who are configuring their organizations around automation instead of buying widgets. Dom closes with his early read on 2027: a possible peak in the proptech VC wave and a push to simplify the resident application process. For multifamily operators, marketers and anyone selling technology into real estate.

Chapters
00:00 Why a digital leasing assistant isn't an AI strategy
00:46 The 20for20 thesis after eight editions
03:15 Owner operators versus third party managers on centralization
05:36 Exhaustion becomes the word of the year
09:39 Tech bloat, tech freezes and cutting 40 apps to 20
14:50 Shifting sands for proptech vendors
17:52 The VC model and the tech bloat trade-off
20:18 AI first operators versus widget buyers
26:27 Conversion rates when AI nurtures every lead
32:06 The 2027 outlook: peak VC and simpler applications

Takeaways
- Exhaustion is structural: a balance sheet industry has spent 3 years focused on NOI while also changing how it operates, and the same second-half recovery has been predicted 3 years running.
- Community managers routinely carry more than 40 logins, and getting rid of technology is at least as hard as acquiring it.
- About a third of operators now treat shedding tech as a formal initiative, with tech freezes and one large owner operator cutting from the low 40s to under 20 applications.
- The VC model that gives startups access to LP operators creates an incentive to roll out software most portfolio companies will never grow into.
- AI first operators configure the organization around automation and ask software to tell them how to improve, while most of the industry still reflexively buys widgets like a digital leasing assistant.

Connect with the Guest
Dom Beveridge LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dombeveridge/
Company Website: https://20for20.com

Summary
In this episode of Modern Multifamily, Mike Wolber brings the show back with Dana Pate, Founder/CEO of Stitched Marketing and former marketing leader at RangeWater through its growth from four properties to 400. Dana explains why so many people who go independent quietly return to a W-2 within two quarters (you report to more people, not fewer), why both large and small property management companies still move slowly on marketing decisions, and why "we just need more leads" is the same question the industry was asking ten years ago. The conversation closes on proptech go-to-market: why the obsession with the NMHC Top 50 starves companies of the mid-market partners that actually keep them afloat. For multifamily marketers, proptech operators and anyone thinking about going out on their own.

Chapters
00:00 Bringing Modern Multifamily back with Dana Pate
01:22 Launching Stitched Marketing after 15 years on the PMC side
04:12 Saying yes to everything, then learning to be choosy
06:36 Working with competitors and keeping the client list at five or six
11:24 What makes people fail when they go out on their own
16:11 Building the plane at RangeWater, from 4 to 400 properties
19:46 Two camps of slow PMCs and the "we just need more leads" trap
25:59 Crowded categories and a dashboard for your dashboards
29:30 Stop obsessing over the NMHC Top 50
31:27 Who should call Stitched Marketing

Takeaways
- Going independent means answering to more people, not fewer, and losing the title, the authority and the team.
- Large PMCs stall on red tape while small PMCs stall on fear of change, so both move slowly for opposite reasons.
- "We just need more leads" is the same question the industry asked a decade ago, and the same question gets the same answers.
- A signed contract is not buy-in; technology that the on-site team never adopts goes dusty and gets canceled.
- Proptech companies obsessed with the Top 50 should win fast-deciding mid-market partners first and move upmarket with proof.

Connect with the Guest
Dana Pate LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danagrazianopate
Company Website: https://stitchedmarketing.com

I had a blast sitting down with Alex Roudi, the CEO of Interwest Capital Group on the podcast.

The conversation started with digging into Alex's history as a founder. He built a very successful global cleaning business in the 90's - and hearing about this was fascinating.

From there, we learned how he used the capital from a big liquidity event to start to build Interwest - an ownership/investment group that's focused on Multifamily.

In this episode, we hear about the 300+ investors that Interwest works today and how they are creating value across their 4,000 unit portfolio. And, all of the things that have Alex and the team excited about the future as they charge towards 1,000 investors and more than 10,000 owned units.

Be sure to learn more about interwest here: https://interwestcapital.com/

And find/connect with Alex on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexroudi/

Each year, I look forward to hosting Dom Beveridge to discuss the the 20for20 white paper. 

Every year, Dom sits down with 20 executives to uncover what's top of mind and what's driving their strategy over the coming year.

This year, we hit on a few topics that stood out to me the most:

- The evolution of the Tech Stack

- The state of Centralization and what's happening in the front and back office

- And of course, we discussed AI

Find the white paper here: https://20for20.com/

Be sure to find Dom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dombeveridge/

I had an absolute blast connecting with Anne Baum, the VP of Marketing at Towne Properties.

Last year, Anne was awarded Executive of the Year for Multifamily Housing News (MHN) - and she continues to make a big impact on our industry.

In this episode, we discussed a ton of topics - I loved hearing about Anne's perspective of the importance of a source of truth, taking big bets with marketing and brand, and how LinkedIn plays a role for their business.

They are chasing 10,000 followers - be sure to help them get there by following Towne Properties on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/towne-properties/posts/?feedView=all

Be sure to connect with Anne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annebaum1/

Learn more about Towne Properties here: https://www.towneproperties.com/

I was super fortunate to host Joya Pavesi and Kevin Owens from RKW Residential on the podcast.

- Joya is the President of Brand & Strategic Services.

- Kevin is thie President of Property Management.

In this conversation, we jumped into all of the exciting growth that's happening at RKW. Most recently, Alfred announced that they were merging RKW and Quarterra together which means that this team is officially entering hyper-growth mode.

It was great to hear about the operating scale of RKW, the leadership and cultural principles that make this such an exceptional organization, and to learn more about Joya and Kevin personally.

Be sure to find them on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joya-pavesi/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-owens-cpm%C2%AE-06910712/

Learn more about RKW here: https://rkwresidential.com/

I was fortunate to host Sara Scarborough Graham as my 100th guest on Modern Multifamily.

Sara has an amazing track record of leadership roles in Multifamily and recently launched her own consulting firm, Six Dots Consulting.

In this episode, we dug into Sara's background, the why behind Six Dots, and the work that she's excited to tackle with her current and future customers.

I really enjoyed this one.

Learn more about six dots consulting here: https://www.sixdotsconsulting.com/

And be sure to connect with Sara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarasgraham/