More Than Counts

From becoming a self-proclaimed "gym rat" chasing standing tucks to competing with GymTyme Chrome at Worlds and building some of Virginia's most recognizable themed routines, Kaden Koz has seen cheerleading from nearly every angle.

In this episode, we dive into the creative side of choreography: what actually makes a routine memorable, how themed routines come to life, and why crowd engagement matters just as much as difficulty. Kaden also shares the incredible story of the overnight changes GymTyme Chrome made between Day 1 and Finals at Worlds, offering a rare look at the strategy, decision-making, and trust that go into chasing a championship.

As always, we wrap up by reviewing a listener-submitted routine, breaking down the details that elevate great performances.

Whether you're an athlete, coach, choreographer, or simply love the sport, this conversation is packed with practical insights and behind-the-scenes stories that remind us great routines are built long before they ever take the floor.

Takeaways

• Transition from diving to cheerleading
• Importance of crowd response in cheer routines The importance of unassisted stunts
• The impact of COVID-19 on routines and competitions

Chapters

• 00:00 The Journey into Cheerleading
• 05:05 Transition to College Cheerleading
• 20:53 Competing at Worlds with Gym Time All-Star Chrome
• 28:36 The Art of Unassisted Stunts
• 34:10 High School Coaching and Success
• 46:58 Planning and Preparation for Future Seasons

Chris Cox didn't set out to become a choreographer. He simply fell in love with the creative side of cheerleading and never stopped chasing it.

In this episode, Chris shares his journey from athlete, to coach, to building one of the industry's most respected choreography brands. We dive into what makes a routine memorable, how movement and formations can create powerful visual moments, and why great choreography is about more than just checking boxes on a score sheet.

Along the way, we break down two standout routines—Desert Elite Mavericks Renegade and Prodigy Twilight—and explore the unique challenges of choreographing for small teams, non-tumbling divisions, and World Championship contenders.

Whether you're a coach, choreographer, athlete, or fan of the sport, this conversation is a reminder that the best routines aren't just built around skills—they're built around people, creativity, and the moments that make us feel something.

Chapters

• 00:00 The Journey from Athlete to Choreographer
• 07:15 Collaboration and Feedback in Choreography
• 16:38 Misconceptions About Good Choreography
• 21:41 Challenges of Non-Tumbling Division
• 27:12 Growth and Development in Cheerleading
• 32:47 Routine Review and Analysis

A perfect score is one of the rarest achievements in cheerleading. But what happens after you get one?

In this episode, Judge Mimi sits down with Brynn and Jalyn of Macs All Stars, the coaches behind Reign, a team that went from a half-year experiment to back-to-back Summit champions and one of the few teams to earn a perfect 100-point score.

Together, they break down the journey behind the score, the culture that makes Macs All Stars special, and the challenge of keeping athletes motivated after reaching the top. They also discuss routine strategy, theme selection, choreography, and how coaches balance confidence with humility throughout a season.

Along the way, they revisit Reign's routines, reflect on what "perfect" really means in a subjective sport, and share lessons that apply far beyond the scoresheet.

Because cheerleading is more than counts. It's about the teamwork, leadership, resilience, and growth that happen long before the trophies and scores are announced.

Takeaways

• The importance of motivation and humility in maintaining success
• The subjective nature of perfection in competitive cheerleading Adapting to a new division requires depth and motivation
• Choreography benefits from a personal connection with the athletes

Chapters

• 00:00 The Journey to Cheerleading
• 07:20 Routine Development and Strategy
• 16:08 Scoring a Perfect 100
• 24:34 The Definition of Perfection in Cheerleading
• 30:19 Adapting to a New Division
• 44:36 Reviewing a Cheerleading Routine

Tumbling is one of the most visible skills in cheerleading, but the journey behind it is often much bigger than the skill itself.

In this episode, Levi joins us to talk about what it really takes to develop successful tumblers. From overcoming fear and mental blocks to building confidence under pressure, we explore the challenges athletes face and the role coaches and parents play in supporting them along the way.

We also dive into the art of tumbling itself—what makes standing tumbling visually appealing, how judges perceive different skills, and how coaches can make smarter decisions when building routines around their athletes' strengths.

Whether you're a coach trying to maximize your tumbling score, a parent supporting an athlete through a setback, or an athlete chasing the next skill, this conversation offers practical insights and a fresh perspective on one of cheerleading's most important disciplines.

Because great tumbling isn't just about the skills athletes perform—it's about the confidence, resilience, and trust they build along the way.

Chapters

• 00:00 The Journey of Tumbling
• 06:52 Supporting Athletes Through Mental Blocks
• 21:22 Uniformity in Tumbling Styles
• 27:02 The Challenge of Standing Fulls
• 33:16 The Challenge of Standing Fulls
• 39:21 Tumbling in Routine Building
• 47:13 Tumbling Technique and Coaching

What does it take to create a place in cheerleading where everyone belongs?

In this episode, Judge Mimi sits down with Rick Rodgers, one of the pioneers behind adaptive and para cheerleading, to discuss the journey that led to a groundbreaking para sport cheer showcase at ICU Worlds.

Rick shares how adaptive cheerleading has evolved over the last decade, the creativity required to adapt skills and routines for athletes with different disabilities, and the challenges of building opportunities for participation at the highest levels of the sport.

Together, they explore the differences between Cheer Abilities, Adaptive Abilities, and Para Sport Cheer, watch the evolution of some of Rick’s routines, and discuss what it would take for para cheerleading to one day become a recognized Paralympic sport.

This conversation is a reminder that some of the most important innovations in cheerleading aren't about difficulty—they're about access, inclusion, and creating opportunities for every athlete to shine.

Takeaways

• Adaptive cheerleading divisions have opened up opportunities for athletes with disabilities to participate in cheerleading at various levels.
• Choreography and logistics in para sport cheerleading involve unique adaptations to accommodate athletes with disabilities, including visual impairment, wheelchair use, and other impairments. Adaptation and creativity are essential in developing cheerleading routines for disabled athletes.
• The potential for Paralympic cheerleading presents an opportunity for inclusive and diverse participation in the sport.

Chapters

• 00:00 Journey into Cheerleading
• 07:59 Choreography and Logistics in Para Sport Cheerleading
• 15:02 Inclusion of Athletes with Disabilities
• 30:31 Adaptation and Creativity in Cheerleading
• 38:13 Challenges and Opportunities in Paralympic Cheerleading
• 49:53 Inclusion and Growth in Paralympic Cheerleading

From opening two gyms in two years to building a first-year Worlds champion, Adrian Butler takes us inside one of the most talked-about seasons in cheerleading.

In this episode, we break down the rise of Top Gun Legends — how the athletes bought into the vision, the pressure of carrying the Top Gun name, and the tiny routine changes that helped shape their Worlds-winning run.

Adrian also shares his philosophy on coaching, athlete development, routine construction, musicality, and why creating emotion matters just as much as difficulty. From building culture inside the gym to creating moments that make crowds erupt, this conversation goes far beyond the scoresheet.

We also watch and analyze routines together, including the evolution of the Legends routine from early season to Worlds Finals, and talk about what truly makes a routine memorable.

Takeaways

• Leadership and Trust
• Creating Memorable Moments Emotional Connection
• Artistic Expression

Chapters

• 00:00 The Rise of Top Gun Legends
• 13:32 Inception of Top Gun Legends Routine
• 34:08 The Art of Emotional Connection in Music
• 40:06 Strategic Music Changes and Surprises
• 47:45 Strategic Team Development and Progression
• 53:39 Building a Culture of Excellence and Value
• 01:01:33 Trends in Cheerleading and Skill Development

From teaching himself backflips in his backyard in rural Iowa… to choreographing Worlds-level routines across the globe, Kyle Spirit FX has become one of the most influential voices in competitive cheerleading.

In this episode, we dive into what it actually takes to build winning routines in different countries, across different score sheets, and for completely different team cultures. From South America’s explosive growth in cheerleading, to adapting choreography for Open, United, and ICU score sheets, Kyle breaks down the strategy behind routines that don’t just score well… but leave an impact.

We also react to some unforgettable Worlds performances, including the viral Chilean routine that had everyone talking, and discuss why creativity, pacing, participation, and performance matter more than ever in modern cheerleading.

This conversation goes far beyond choreography. It’s about leadership, integrity, global growth in the sport, and understanding what really makes a routine memorable.

Because cheerleading is more than counts.

Takeaways

• How Kyle went from a small-town athlete to building a global choreography company
• Why South American cheerleading is growing so quickly
• The differences between ICU, Open, and United score sheets
• How score sheets influence routine construction
• Why themes either completely work… or completely miss
• The importance of full-team participation in modern choreography
• How international teams are pushing creativity in the sport
• What separates a good routine from a winning one
• Why integrity and relationships matter in the choreography world

Chapters

• 00:00 From Backyard Tumbler to Global Choreographer
• 08:02 Building Routines Across Different Score Sheets
• 16:59 Why South America Is Changing Cheerleading
• 22:46 The Reality of Non-Tumble Divisions
• 30:22 Themes, Creativity & What Actually Wins
• 40:33 Advice for the Next Generation of Choreographers

This week on More Than Counts, I sit down with Coach K, the creator behind High School Cheer Rules, to break down one of the most misunderstood parts of cheerleading: legality.

From viral stunt videos to hidden deductions that can completely change rankings, we talk about how high school cheer rules actually work, why different competitions sometimes interpret rules differently, and how coaches can better protect their teams from costly mistakes.

We also dive into the differences between high school, All-Star, and ICU-style cheerleading, how rules evolve over time, and why some programs seem “ahead of the curve” when new skills become legal. Along the way, Coach K shares her journey from high school coach to one of the internet’s go-to voices for legality education.

And of course, we end the episode the More Than Counts way: by reviewing a listener-submitted routine and discussing what makes it effective beyond just the skills.

Because cheerleading is more than counts. It’s strategy, safety, creativity, and understanding why the rules exist in the first place.

• Why legality deductions happen more often than coaches think
• The biggest differences between high school and All-Star cheer rules
• How rule interpretations can vary between competitions
• Why understanding the “why” behind the rules matters
• How elite programs prepare for future rule changes
• What makes a routine feel clean, strategic, and intentional

00:00 – Meet Coach K & the world of High School Cheer Rules
08:15 – Why high school legality is more complicated than people realize
21:59 – Breaking down common stunt deductions
29:06 – All-Star vs. school cheer: what changes?
34:43 – The future of cheer rules & skill progression
42:30 – Listener routine review and feedback

What if everything you think you know about cheerleading… depends on where you are in the world?

In this episode, I sit down with Leon to unpack what cheer looks like in Australia—and why it’s so different from what we see in North America. From the way programs are built, to how dance and cheer are deeply connected, to coaches taking on choreography themselves… this is a completely different system. And yet—it works!

We talk about what it actually takes to grow a sport in a country where there’s no traditional pathway, how teams prepare for international competitions like Summit on a completely different season timeline, and what it means to build athletes not just for routines—but for life.

This episode is a reminder that there isn’t just one way to do cheerleading. And sometimes, doing it differently is exactly what leads to success.

Takeaways

• Cheerleading growth in Australia
• Choreography and coaching in cheerleading Mental preparation for competitions
• Collaboration and support in the cheerleading community

Chapters

• 00:00 The Growth of Cheerleading in Australia
• 14:10 Preparing for Competition
• 20:22 Routine Elements and Impact
• 28:55 Looking Ahead to 2026

What does it actually take to build a routine that wins—and one that people remember?

In this episode, I sit down with Dahlston Delgado—the choreographer behind 13 routines at NCA this year, and creative forces shaping cheerleading both on and off the competition floor.

We break down his process from the very first skills check to the final performance—how he builds structure, layers movement, and makes decisions that balance the score sheet with the audience experience.

We also get into the differences between college and all-star choreography, what changes when you’re building for NCA vs UCA, and how his work on Stumble and Broadway has shifted the way he sees routine design.

Plus, we watch and analyze real routines—including one submitted by a listener—and talk through what works, what could be elevated, and how small decisions create big impact.

This conversation is a deep dive into the strategy, creativity, and emotion behind elite routines—and a reminder that the best performances don’t just score well… they make you feel something.

Chapters

• 00:00 The Journey to Choreography
• 08:10 The Impact of TV on Choreography
• 19:23 Choreographing for Texas Tech Large Co-ed
• 24:44 Choreographing for Mississippi State All Girl
• 48:34 Analyzing a Listener's Routine