More Than Counts

This episode dives into the journey of an athlete who took a leap — from Montreal to Top Gun — and everything that came with it.

Kass shares what it really looked like to leave Canada, step into the U.S. cheer system, and navigate an environment where the pressure is higher, the expectations are different, and every rep matters. From battling through two ACL injuries to earning her spot on Double O, her story is one of resilience, work ethic, and belief.

We break down the real differences between cheering in Canada vs. the U.S. — from team culture and accountability to the role of alternates and what it means to prove yourself every single day.

And through it all, this conversation is a reminder that growth doesn’t just come from the routine — it comes from the environments we step into and the standards we choose to meet.

Takeaways

• Transition from Canada to the US
• Differences in training and competition
• Impact of cheerleading on athletes

Chapters

• 00:00 Impact of Cheerleading on Athletes

In this episode, we’re shifting the lens a little—because cheerleading isn’t just experienced on the mat.

I’m joined by Jay, a dad, comedian, and creator whose viral TikToks capture the real, funny, and sometimes chaotic side of being a cheer parent. What starts as a conversation about supporting your athlete quickly turns into something deeper: what this sport teaches families about resilience, community, and showing up—fully.

We talk about how cheerleading has evolved, from the skills we see on the floor to the way information, creativity, and even language spread through the sport. From naming trends to social media shaping how quickly teams level up, this episode connects the dots between culture, coaching, and the parent experience.

But at the core of it all, this is a conversation about perspective—how cheerleading can change not just the athlete, but the people around them.

Because the impact of cheerleading isn’t just on the athlete—it’s on the people who love them most, and that’s what makes it more than counts: what routines teach us about teamwork, leadership, and life.

Takeaways

• Parenting through the lens of cheer
• Community and resilience in cheerleading
• Impact of social media on spreading information

Chapters

• 00:00 The Power of Parenting in Cheerleading
• 13:41 The Evolution of Cheerleading
• 20:45 Language Creativity and Social Media Impact

What does it actually take to build a national team routine—when time is limited and every decision matters?

In this episode, Natalie breaks down the strategy behind Team Canada: from athlete selection and preparation to navigating a unique scoring system and building a “homework culture” that drives success. We get into how routines evolve through feedback, how to adapt under pressure, and why visual storytelling is just as important as the skills on the mat.

This is a behind-the-scenes look at what it really takes to perform at the highest level—and the decisions you don’t see on competition day.

Because cheerleading is more than counts. And what makes routines special is what they teach us about teamwork, leadership, and life.

Let’s get into it.

Takeaways

• Building a national team routine with limited time and a unique scoring system
• The importance of strategy, athlete selection, and the homework culture in team success Visual storytelling
• Adaptation to feedback

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 17:03 Transition to ICU Scoring System
• 24:07 Engaging the Crowd
• 31:15 Performance Evaluation
• 41:09 Future of Team Canada

On this episode of More Than Counts, I’m joined by JJ—coach, choreographer, and someone who truly understands what it takes to build routines that hit.

We get into his journey through cheer, from stepping into the California scene to finding his voice in coaching and choreography. But more than that, this conversation really dives into what sits underneath great routines—team culture, intention, and strategy.

We talk about what actually makes choreography work (and what doesn’t), how to approach routine changes without losing your structure, and why musicality and pacing can completely change how a routine is received.

We also get into the differences between high school and all-star routines, and the non-negotiables JJ brings into every team he works with.

If you’ve ever watched a routine and thought “why did that score the way it did?”—this episode is for you.

Takeaways

• Team culture is the foundation for success
• Choreography process involves blocking out the routine before adding choreography Routine Changes
• Choreography Strategy

Chapters

• 00:00 The Foundation of Team Culture
• 14:42 Coaching Strategy and Non-Negotiables
• 23:15 Routine Changes and Overhaul
• 35:35 High School vs. All-Star Routines

Kevin Ahern joins More Than Counts to share his journey into cheerleading and the path that led him from athlete to choreographer and coach.

In this conversation, we explore how Kevin discovered cheerleading through his background in dance and how early opportunities to choreograph quickly turned into a passion for creating routines and working with teams. He shares his approach to choreography, including the importance of collaboration with coaches, understanding the strengths of athletes, and building routines that feel authentic to the team performing them.

Kevin also talks about the realities of working with different programs — from adapting to gym changes and supporting teams through transitions, to how competition results can influence the growth and movement within gyms.

And of course, we watch routines together.

We break down performances from South Bay Divas, Texas Bandits, Fierce Athletics, and a listener-submitted routine from Brazil, discussing choreography choices, visual clarity, stunt creativity, and how small adjustments can impact the way a routine reads on the floor.

This episode also touches on evaluating non-tumbling routines, the unique energy of Level 1 teams, and Kevin’s advice for aspiring choreographers looking to grow in the industry.

Takeaways

• Kevin’s journey from dancer to cheerleader, choreographer, and coach
• Why collaboration with coaches is essential when building routines
• How choreography should adapt to the strengths of each team
• The impact of competition results on gym growth and athlete movement
• Lessons for aspiring choreographers entering the cheer industry

Chapters

• 00:00 Discovering Cheerleading
• 09:33 Choreography Philosophy and Non-Negotiables
• 19:23 Theme in Cheer Routine
• 25:39 Adapting to Gym Changes
• 31:24 Factors Influencing Gym Attraction
• 37:19 Level 1 Routine Enthusiasm
• 42:33 Non-Tumbling Routine Evaluation

What happens when choreography becomes more than just skills and counts — and starts with relationships?

In this episode of More Than Counts, I sit down with Jeremy Brown and Marcus, the duo behind Creative Elements, to talk about their journey in the cheerleading industry and the philosophy that drives their choreography.

We dive into how their partnership started, why they prioritize relationship-driven choreography, and how collaboration between coaches, athletes, and choreographers can transform a program. Jeremy and Marcus share their perspective on evolving trends in cheerleading, the importance of creating a supportive team environment, and the non-negotiables they bring into every routine they build.

We also break down routines together — from Florida Twisters to Arizona All-Star Venom — analyzing what makes performances stand out, why clean movement and clear visuals still win, and how small details like formations, timing, and even uniform colors can dramatically impact how routines are seen by judges and audiences.

This conversation goes beyond choreography. It’s about community, mentorship, and building teams where athletes feel supported and inspired to grow.

Because at the end of the day… cheerleading is more than counts.

Takeaways

• Relationship-driven choreography builds stronger teams
• Collaboration between coaches, athletes, and choreographers is essential
• Clean movement and clarity still win on the scoresheet
• Visual elements — including formations and uniform colors — impact performance perception
• Meeting teams where they are is key to long-term program success

Chapters

• 00:00 The Art of Relationship-Driven Choreography
• 05:55 Trends and Changes in Cheerleading
• 23:41 The Impact of Clean Movement and Visuals
• 31:03 The Importance of Basic Skills

In this episode of More Than Counts, I sit down with Hailey D’Lynn Smith — Weber State, Miami Metal, and Team USA athlete — to break down one of the most powerful journeys in partner stunt.

From her transition out of elite gymnastics into the world of cheerleading, to qualifying near the bottom and rising to become a back-to-back champion, Hailey shares what it really took to build confidence, trust a long-term stunt partnership, and redefine what winning means.

Together, we watch her routines from 2022 to today and analyze the evolution in real time — the strategy behind routine construction, the shift from difficulty to cleanliness, and the mindset that changed everything.

We talk about:

• developing confidence when you feel like you don’t belong
• the role of coaching, mentorship, and athlete support systems
• overcoming setbacks and injuries
• training with intention and purpose
• why your “reason why” matters more than motivation

This episode is about perseverance, growth, partnership, and pushing the boundaries of what’s possible — on and off the mat.

Because cheerleading is More Than Counts.

Chapters

• 00:00 Journey from Gymnastics to Cheerleading
• 19:06 Evolution of Routines and Skills
• 28:37 Pushing Boundaries and Setting New Standards
• 35:12 Overcoming Setbacks and Finding Purpose
• 54:32 Dedication, Discipline, and Growth Mindset

n this episode of More Than Counts, we sit down with Andres, a Mexican choreographer whose work is making an impact on teams around the world. From his journey as an athlete to coaching and building a global choreography career, Andres shares how his experience has shaped his creative process and his approach to athlete experience.

We dive into the evolution of cheerleading in Mexico, the reality of working with half-season and non-tumbling teams, and how he balances difficulty, creativity, and team identity when building routines.

Together, we break down three impactful routines from different programs, exploring the story behind each team, the choreographic choices, and the moments that truly hit the scoresheet.

This episode is a deep look at culture, collaboration, and what it means to create routines that are not only competitive — but meaningful.

Because cheerleading is More Than Counts.

Takeaways

• Global expansion of cheerleading career
• Importance of positive athlete experience
• Collaboration is key to successful choreography
• Non-tumbling routines require strategic choreography
• Competition experiences shape team growth and learning
• Storytelling and emotional themes enhance routine impact
• Detailed analysis improves routine quality

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Cheerleading Beginnings
• 05:27 Season Structure and Development in Mexico
• 10:54 Progress in Mexican Cheerleading
• 17:16 Difficulty vs. Creativity in Choreography
• 29:01 Routine Showcase: All Star Revolution J3
• 36:15 Non-Tumbling Team Dynamics - Barcelona Bears
• 47:17 2026 Routine Theme

Welcome to More Than Counts, a visual podcast about what really goes into cheerleading routines.

Hosted by cheer judge Mimi, this show brings choreographers, coaches, and athletes together to break down choreography, creativity, and the stories behind the routines you see on the floor. We talk about what makes routines special, what actually hits the scoresheet, and what these routines teach us about teamwork, leadership, and life.

In our first episode, we sit down with Ashley Williams to explore her journey in cheerleading, the different hats she wears in the industry, and her creative process. Together, we watch and analyze routines from this season and previous years, diving into the decisions that shape strong choreography.

This channel is for coaches, choreographers, parents, and athletes who want to better understand choreography — and start seeing cheerleading in a whole new way.

Because cheerleading is More Than Counts.