Mormon Transitions

Kristy and April sit together in Kristy's Athens Georgia living room to share how they met and April's story of leaving the church 10 years ago.  They've been friends for 2 years ever since their daughters became *best* friends in the same school, and only a couple months ago did they find out both had ties to Mormonism.   Neither's countenance gave off particularly Mormon or ex-Mormon vibes (note: sarcasm)--we had no idea.  While April doesn't hide her Mormon roots, she says it just doesn't come up very much outside the Jello Belt.  April's ancestors were Joseph Smith's neighbors in Nauvoo, and she left the church after moving from Idaho to Florida as a teenager because she felt something wasn't quite right about the church's shame culture.   For  listeners who are wondering if they'll ever stop thinking about the Church, or if they'll always give off Mormon vibes when they're ready to move on, April's story provides hope as she's created a new life for herself and her daughter here in Georgia, still maintaining a positive relationship with her parents too.  She reports not thinking about Mormonism very often, 10 years later.

Humor's positive psychological effects in times of stress are well-researched, so this episode applies the principle specifically to faith transitions through the lens of the dynamic duo behind the Brother Jake Videos:  Erica and her husband Jake Frost.  Together they share their backstories, including their faith transitions, how they met, and how they came up with Brother Jake.   I think they're both hilarious and I love how they are able to empathize with transitioners and want to help others through their journeys.    Brother Jake fans and newcomers alike will get a kick out of this episode.

Dr. Jeremy Bartz was raised Mormon and is a psychologist specializing in chronic pain, and when medical conditions can be aggravated or exacerbated by psychological stress (psychosomatic disorders, or mind/body stress).   He and Kristy went to graduate school together at BYU and he shares his faith journey: how he left the LDS church (partly from what we learned in our classes together), and later experienced rage so intense he felt it physically, and MRI scans couldn't explain it.  He talks about how our genetic link to primates translates to having unconscious 'gorilla brain' urges to do harm when angry, but we humans also have 'big hearts' so to speak. So when we unconsciously harbor these horrible urges toward those we care about, or another human who of course we wouldn't really want those things to actually happen to them  (think an orthodox loved one or a church member/leader), we feel intense guilt, which we then turn inward and punish ourselves with the same punishment our urges were unconsciously dealing out (physical harm we feel in our bodies--headaches, back pain, aches, chronic fatigue, etc). This is an interesting theory to step back and think about, especially soon after general conference when many feel a lot of anger.  Stepping back to look at the unconscious processes that may be at play can perhaps help us understand ourselves a little better and how our biology/genetics interact with our emotional health when we're upset.  DISCLAIMER:  The actual intensive emotional processing Jeremy describes "should not be tried at home.  It's meant to be done with the guidance of a therapist and we are NOT advocating violence. The violent impulses that Jeremy was referring to are processed mentally and NEVER in real life. Links mentioned in this podcast: Jeremy can be reached here Further Reading on Intensive Short Term Dynamic Psychotherapy (ISTDP)

Ryan McKnight talks about being contacted by the anonymous video leaker and releasing them for him/her.  He shares his own faith transition story, how and why he's contacted by so many whistle blowers, and the implications for these people.  Ryan talks more in depth on the process of receiving information, protecting his sources, and deciding whether materials will make an impact.  On a practical level, we also discuss conversion/deconversion and what to do with the videos for folks who want to eagerly share them.  We talk about how quick the GA's were in one video to look to parents as responsible for YSA's inactivity, how that relates to control, and what we can do about it to protect our relationships.    We end with Ryan telling us more about his project, The Underground Handcart Company, which helps youth and young adults who have already decided to leave the church, to get help and resources so they can support themselves if they get disowned, fired, shunned, etc. Mentioned in this episode: How to contact Underground Handcart Company A summary of the videos for people who don't want to spend 15+ hrs watching them

"I feel like I don't fit in anywhere" is a common feeling expressed by transitioning Mormons.  Thomas McKonkie, author of Navigating Mormon Faith Crisis, and Kristy discuss this emotion more fully and how sitting with the pain and uncertainty leads to growth.  It's a birthing process that leads us to the person we were meant to become.   This state--and the pain associated with shedding one identity and transforming into something new post-awakening--can be painful and we talk about noticing this pain and letting it inform us about ourselves and what we are becoming.  We also throw around some practical ideas for individuals and families who want to deal with this in-between state in productive ways, for example establishing new rituals like a celebration/party (rather than something to dread/not talk about) when you, a loved one, or a child begins their faith awakening or belief transition.  For some, claiming an identity like post-mormon, MoNoMo, or ethnic/cultural mormon are an important part of the healing process.  For others, some of those labels don't really fit at the moment or it doesn't feel authentic to claim any at this point in time and so both Mormon and Ex-Mormon for example don't feel like home and it's a confusing place to be in.  You're not alone, and every journey is different:  what's important is you listen to your inner voice and let this inform your next steps.  Only you know what's best for you Check out Thomas' New podcast through KSL, Mindfulness+

Dr. Michael Findley, professor at the University of Texas at Austin, worked at BYU before landing his dream job, complete with unlimited access to Torchy's Tacos food truck. :)  He candidly shares his experiences working at BYU while undergoing a faith transition.  He also offers practical advice and concrete considerations for anyone considering graduate school (even if you're not sold on academia, this is still good to know as BYU keep tabs on and actively recruits LDS masters and PhDs).   For anyone who has already been hired by a church school and is having a difficult time, and/or battling cognitive dissonance, Dr. Findley also gives some practical advice about how to move on to a better-fitting job.  This episode feels timely especially since BYU has been in national news defending how their honor code openly discriminates against gay and trans students, and it looks like this is a hill church leaders are ready to die on (regardless of Big 12 status).  Such a trajectory might be unsettling for a lot of employees. Links mentioned in this podcast: Bill Reel on Tithing

Join Kristy and active Mormon researcher/author Jana Riess as they discuss in more detail her NPR interview on the shift many are making as the result of their faith crises/awakenings from orthodox to cultural Mormon.  Jana is analyzing data on how different generations of Mormons are self-identifying and what the future may hold for how people talk about their culture or heritage, that it's much more complex than active/inactive or ex-Mormon, staying or leaving, there really are an infinite variety of ways people who grew up and/or at some point were very orthodox can self-identify now (#culturalmormon, #postmormon, #retiredmormon, #cafeteriamormon  #heritagemormon, #progressivemormon, #wokemormon, #mormoninaformerlife, #catholicmormon, #none, #exmormon).  We talk about letting go of the very real and understandable fear of bringing one's authentic self to our communities in moments of vulnerability and letting the chips fall where they may--how doing so can inform our next steps. Links mentioned in this article: NPR Piece on Cultural Mormons Jana Riess' Blog post on being "in-between" Mette Harrison's interview on Mormon Transitions, wherein she talks about deciding to be her authentic self for her survival

There's a myth that leaving orthodoxy leads to a miserable life, so it can be common for those who are transitioning to feel pressure to prove that narrative wrong, that life is great and we're happier than ever.  And that can be true, at times.  But everyone has bad days, and when hard times hit sometimes there's an impulse to hide it given that false narrative about those who transition.   Sometimes it's also hard to let go of the shame we internalized from our more orthodox days that we're being punished: even if perhaps on an intellectual level we understand that's not true, emotionally it can be difficult to let go of that nagging fear.   Join Kristy and Steph Lauritzen as we talk through these emotions.  Steph vulnerably shares about how she coped with postpartum anxiety and depression, how she and her husband are thriving in a mixed faith marriage and dealt with expectations onlookers had about what would happen to her and their marriage once she left the church.

There are limitless reasons why people decide to stay active in the church (orthoprax), warts and all--after experiencing a transition from orthodoxy.   Some that come immediately to mind are because of where they live (Utah County), or their marriage, perhaps they work for the church, currently serve missions, or the community aspect.   All reasons are 100% valid and unique to the individual. Greg Prince--historian and biographer of David O McKay and Lenard Arrington--and interviewee in PBS' "The Mormons," is one of these cases. A true scientist, he immersed himself for 20 years in thousands of pages of first-hand accounts on the inner-workings of church headquarters for his books.  "Power corrupts" surfaced as a theme as he followed the data in his work, and still he remains somewhat orthoprax for personal reasons.   Follow the data is how he naturally transitioned out of the orthodox framework he was raised with, and he described what that process was like for him.   We also talk about cognitive dissonance and how an insistence on orthodoxy will be problematic going forward for the church.  We end by discussing pluralism vs fundamentalism and the factors that might determine if church headquarters will embrace pluralism or dig it's heels in even further (as in, sending the message to members: "if you don't like orthodoxy, here's the door").    Regardless, we can choose to reject fundamentalism and embrace pluralism in our own lives,  as it's much healthier not only for institutions but for individuals too