On January 13th, 2014, 71-year old Curtis Reeves went to see a matinee showing of Lone Survivor with his wife of 47 years, Vivian. Curtis and Vivian arrived at the Grove theater, located in Wesley Chapel, Florida, and snagged prime seats in the back row of the theater.

The lights dimmed, and the previews started. Curtis couldn't enjoy them, though, because of the bright light shining in his face. The light was coming from the cell phone of Chad Oulson, a 43-year old man sitting in the row in front of Curtis.

Curtis asked the man to turn his cell phone off.

The man didn't. 

15 minutes later, Chad Oulson would be dead.

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In this episode, we discuss whether Curtis is a reliable witness.

We compare statements he made immediately after the shooting to police to the testimony he gave during his trial. We also compare his testimony to what other witnesses said.

Can Curtis be trusted? Was he really in fear for his life when he shot Chad Oulson?

Or, was Curtis drawing on his 27 years of law enforcement experience when he said he was 'afraid for his life'? Was Curtis really afraid, or did he just know the right thing to say?

If you'd like to support this podcast:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

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Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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On January 13th, 2014, 71-year old Curtis Reeves went to see a matinee showing of Lone Survivor with his wife of 47 years, Vivian. Curtis and Vivian arrived at the Grove theater, located in Wesley Chapel, Florida, and snagged prime seats in the back row of the theater.

The lights dimmed, and the previews started. Curtis couldn't enjoy them, though, because of the bright light shining in his face. The light was coming from the cell phone of Chad Oulson, a 43-year old man sitting in the row in front of Curtis.

Curtis asked the man to turn his cell phone off.

The man didn't. 

15 minutes later, Chad Oulson would be dead.

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In this episode, we discuss the most controversial question in this case: was Chad Oulson shot over popcorn?

I break down the prosecution and defense arguments to give you a full picture of this case.

In this episode, we also discuss medical findings presented during the trial. In particular, we discuss stippling patterns (gun powder residue found on victims who are shot at close range) found on Chad and Nicole Oulson.

You can support this podcast on:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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On January 13th, 2014, 71-year old Curtis Reeves went to see a matinee showing of Lone Survivor with his wife of 47 years, Vivian. Curtis and Vivian arrived at the Grove theater, located in Wesley Chapel, Florida, and snagged prime seats in the back row of the theater.

The lights dimmed, and the previews started. Curtis couldn't enjoy them, though, because of the bright light shining in his face. The light was coming from the cell phone of Chad Oulson, a 43-year old man sitting in the row in front of Curtis.

Curtis asked the man to turn his cell phone off.

The man didn't. 

15 minutes later, Chad Oulson would be dead.

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In today's episode, we discuss whether Chad Oulson threw his phone at Curtis.

This is a key issue in this case.

To justify the use of deadly force against Chad Oulson, Curtis needs to prove that he reasonably believed he was about to be killed or seriously harmed by Chad Oulson. Chad never hit Curtis, but he did throw popcorn at him (see episode 3 for a discussion about this). 

Curtis, who was 71 at the time of the shooting, claims he felt threatened by Chad Oulson who was 6'3" and 43 years old. Chad was yelling and standing over Curtis when he was shot. 

Chad's demeanor is a key issue in determining whether Curtis acted reasonably. Witnesses disagree about whether Chad was acting aggressively towards Curtis. Most witnesses agree Chad was shouting loudly and seemed angry. Multiple witnesses report hearing Chad swear at Curtis.

No witnesses, however, saw Chad throw his phone at Curtis. If Chad did throw his phone at Curtis, Curtis' self defense claim is much stronger. At trial, a doctor testified that a phone as heavy as Chad's (it weighed as much as a cue ball), could kill someone or cause serious brain damage.

When Chad was shot, he may have been leaning over the back of his chair and encroaching on Curtis' space. Curtis told police that he thought Chad was going to punch him. For a 71-year-old, one punch could be fatal.

One of the key questions in this trial is whether Curtis' belief that Chad was about to punch him was reasonable. If Chad threw his phone at Curtis' head seconds before he was shot, Curtis' fear is much more reasonable. If Chad didn't throw his phone, Curtis' fear is less reasonable.

If you'd like to support this podcast:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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On January 13th, 2014, 71-year old Curtis Reeves went to see a matinee showing of Lone Survivor with his wife of 47 years, Vivian. Curtis and Vivian arrived at the Grove theater, located in Wesley Chapel, Florida, and snagged prime seats in the back row of the theater.

The lights dimmed, and the previews started. Curtis couldn't enjoy them, though, because of the bright light shining in his face. The light was coming from the cell phone of Chad Oulson, a 43-year old man sitting in the row in front of Curtis.

Curtis asked the man to turn his cell phone off.

The man didn't. 

15 minutes later, Chad Oulson would be dead.

To support this podcast:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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Update to the Rebecca Ruud case. On July 29th, 2022, Judge Calvin Holden released his verdict for the Rebecca Ruud murder case.

This case was heard June 27th-30th. This case is covered in depth in earlier podcast episodes.

No spoilers here, listen to the episode to hear about the verdict!

Savannah Leckie was born in 2001 to Rebecca Ruud. Ruud, then 23, arranged for her daughter to be adopted by Tamile and David Leckie.

Rebecca grew close with the Leckies and was a part of Savannah's life growing up. Rebecca would join the Leckies on vacations and holidays. They were so close that Rebecca called Tamile Mom.

Savannah was diagnosed with Asperger's (now referred to as 'Autism Spectrum Disorder') and ADHD in grade two. Savannah was brilliant and inquisitive, but as she grew older, she struggled with her mental health.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah stayed in psychiatric facilities three times for suicidal behaviors, threats, and self-harm. In addition to her two previous diagnoses, she was also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder and treated with medication and therapy.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah's home life deteriorated. Tamile, Savannah's adoptive mother, dated and married two men after splitting with David Leckie in 2011. Savannah reported that one of Tamile's partners, Mike Evans, had abused Savannah. Savannah also reported that her stepmother (David Leckie's new wife) abused her and that Tamile neglected her. When Tamile began dating a new man that Savannah didn't get along with named Carey Steeves, Savannah felt cast aside.

In 2016, Savannah's behavior got increasingly erratic and difficult for Tamile to handle. Savannah would physically fight her siblings, including the younger ones, threaten peers, and destroy property. At one point, she kicked, bit, and punched Tamile.

Following Savannah's third psychiatric stay in the summer of 2016, Tamile and David began looking for alternative living arrangements for Savannah. Neither of them felt capable of caring for Savannah, given her increasingly aggressive behavior and mental health issues. They asked Rebecca, Savannah's biological mother, if Savannah could temporarily stay with her at her farm in Ozark County, Missouri. Rebecca agreed, and in late 2016, Savannah left Minnesota for the last time.

Savannah lived with Rebecca until July 20th, 2017, when Rebecca reported her missing. A massive search ensued. Savannah wasn't found.

Investigators obtained a warrant to search Rebecca's farm. During the search, cadaver dogs hit on a burn pile. In that pile, investigators found what was left of Savannah: fragments of bones.

Rebecca and her husband, Robert Peat Junior (who frequently stayed at Rebecca's farm), were arrested for Savannah's murder. Investigators would later obtain an audio recording of Rebecca admitting to burning Savannah's body but denying murdering her. Rebecca would allege that Savannah killed herself by overdosing on pain medication.

Rebecca's case would be heard in front of a judge alone trial (elected by Rebecca) in June 2022. Prosecutors would allege that only half of Rebecca's confession was true. Based on a jailhouse informant's testimony, prosecutors would argue that Rebecca drugged Savannah, threw her in a fire, and when she woke up screaming, beat her to death with a rake. Then, Rebecca burnt Savannah's body.

Rebecca's defense lawyers would argue that Rebecca did burn Savannah's body, but that's all she did. They'd argue that Rebecca panicked, thinking she would be blamed for Savannah's suicide, and in the heat of the moment, made a terrible decision.

To support this podcast, go to:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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Savannah Leckie was born in 2001 to Rebecca Ruud. Ruud, then 23, arranged for her daughter to be adopted by Tamile and David Leckie.

Rebecca grew close with the Leckies and was a part of Savannah's life growing up. Rebecca would join the Leckies on vacations and holidays. They were so close that Rebecca called Tamile Mom.

Savannah was diagnosed with Asperger's (now referred to as 'Autism Spectrum Disorder') and ADHD in grade two. Savannah was brilliant and inquisitive, but as she grew older, she struggled with her mental health.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah stayed in psychiatric facilities three times for suicidal behaviors, threats, and self-harm. In addition to her two previous diagnoses, she was also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder and treated with medication and therapy.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah's home life deteriorated. Tamile, Savannah's adoptive mother, dated and married two men after splitting with David Leckie in 2011. Savannah reported that one of Tamile's partners, Mike Evans, had abused Savannah. Savannah also reported that her stepmother (David Leckie's new wife) abused her and that Tamile neglected her. When Tamile began dating a new man that Savannah didn't get along with named Carey Steeves, Savannah felt cast aside.

In 2016, Savannah's behavior got increasingly erratic and difficult for Tamile to handle. Savannah would physically fight her siblings, including the younger ones, threaten peers, and destroy property. At one point, she kicked, bit, and punched Tamile.

Following Savannah's third psychiatric stay in the summer of 2016, Tamile and David began looking for alternative living arrangements for Savannah. Neither of them felt capable of caring for Savannah, given her increasingly aggressive behavior and mental health issues. They asked Rebecca, Savannah's biological mother, if Savannah could temporarily stay with her at her farm in Ozark County, Missouri. Rebecca agreed, and in late 2016, Savannah left Minnesota for the last time.

Savannah lived with Rebecca until July 20th, 2017, when Rebecca reported her missing. A massive search ensued. Savannah wasn't found.

Investigators obtained a warrant to search Rebecca's farm. During the search, cadaver dogs hit on a burn pile. In that pile, investigators found what was left of Savannah: fragments of bones.

Rebecca and her husband, Robert Peat Junior (who frequently stayed at Rebecca's farm), were arrested for Savannah's murder. Investigators would later obtain an audio recording of Rebecca admitting to burning Savannah's body but denying murdering her. Rebecca would allege that Savannah killed herself by overdosing on pain medication.

Rebecca's case would be heard in front of a judge alone trial (elected by Rebecca) in June 2022. Prosecutors would allege that only half of Rebecca's confession was true. Based on a jailhouse informant's testimony, prosecutors would argue that Rebecca drugged Savannah, threw her in a fire, and when she woke up screaming, beat her to death with a rake. Then, Rebecca burnt Savannah's body.

Rebecca's defense lawyers would argue that Rebecca did burn Savannah's body, but that's all she did. They'd argue that Rebecca panicked, thinking she would be blamed for Savannah's suicide, and in the heat of the moment, made a terrible decision.

To support this podcast, go to:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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Savannah Leckie was born in 2001 to Rebecca Ruud. Ruud, then 23, arranged for her daughter to be adopted by Tamile and David Leckie.

Rebecca grew close with the Leckies and was a part of Savannah's life growing up. Rebecca would join the Leckies on vacations and holidays. They were so close that Rebecca called Tamile Mom.

Savannah was diagnosed with Asperger's (now referred to as 'Autism Spectrum Disorder') and ADHD in grade two. Savannah was brilliant and inquisitive, but as she grew older, she struggled with her mental health.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah stayed in psychiatric facilities three times for suicidal behaviors, threats, and self-harm. In addition to her two previous diagnoses, she was also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder and treated with medication and therapy.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah's home life deteriorated. Tamile, Savannah's adoptive mother, dated and married two men after splitting with David Leckie in 2011. Savannah reported that one of Tamile's partners, Mike Evans, had abused Savannah. Savannah also reported that her stepmother (David Leckie's new wife) abused her and that Tamile neglected her. When Tamile began dating a new man that Savannah didn't get along with named Carey Steeves, Savannah felt cast aside.

In 2016, Savannah's behavior got increasingly erratic and difficult for Tamile to handle. Savannah would physically fight her siblings, including the younger ones, threaten peers, and destroy property. At one point, she kicked, bit, and punched Tamile.

Following Savannah's third psychiatric stay in the summer of 2016, Tamile and David began looking for alternative living arrangements for Savannah. Neither of them felt capable of caring for Savannah, given her increasingly aggressive behavior and mental health issues. They asked Rebecca, Savannah's biological mother, if Savannah could temporarily stay with her at her farm in Ozark County, Missouri. Rebecca agreed, and in late 2016, Savannah left Minnesota for the last time.

Savannah lived with Rebecca until July 20th, 2017, when Rebecca reported her missing. A massive search ensued. Savannah wasn't found.

Investigators obtained a warrant to search Rebecca's farm. During the search, cadaver dogs hit on a burn pile. In that pile, investigators found what was left of Savannah: fragments of bones.

Rebecca and her husband, Robert Peat Junior (who frequently stayed at Rebecca's farm), were arrested for Savannah's murder. Investigators would later obtain an audio recording of Rebecca admitting to burning Savannah's body but denying murdering her. Rebecca would allege that Savannah killed herself by overdosing on pain medication.

Rebecca's case would be heard in front of a judge alone trial (elected by Rebecca) in June 2022. Prosecutors would allege that only half of Rebecca's confession was true. Based on a jailhouse informant's testimony, prosecutors would argue that Rebecca drugged Savannah, threw her in a fire, and when she woke up screaming, beat her to death with a rake. Then, Rebecca burnt Savannah's body.

Rebecca's defense lawyers would argue that Rebecca did burn Savannah's body, but that's all she did. They'd argue that Rebecca panicked, thinking she would be blamed for Savannah's suicide, and in the heat of the moment, made a terrible decision.

To support this podcast, go to:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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Savannah Leckie was born in 2001 to Rebecca Ruud. Ruud, then 23, arranged for her daughter to be adopted by Tamile and David Leckie.

Rebecca grew close with the Leckies and was a part of Savannah's life growing up. Rebecca would join the Leckies on vacations and holidays. They were so close that Rebecca called Tamile Mom.

Savannah was diagnosed with Asperger's (now referred to as 'Autism Spectrum Disorder') and ADHD in grade two. Savannah was brilliant and inquisitive, but as she grew older, she struggled with her mental health.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah stayed in psychiatric facilities three times for suicidal behaviors, threats, and self-harm. In addition to her two previous diagnoses, she was also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder and treated with medication and therapy.

Between 2015-2016, Savannah's home life deteriorated. Tamile, Savannah's adoptive mother, dated and married two men after splitting with David Leckie in 2011. Savannah reported that one of Tamile's partners, Mike Evans, had abused Savannah. Savannah also reported that her stepmother (David Leckie's new wife) abused her and that Tamile neglected her. When Tamile began dating a new man that Savannah didn't get along with named Carey Steeves, Savannah felt cast aside.

In 2016, Savannah's behavior got increasingly erratic and difficult for Tamile to handle. Savannah would physically fight her siblings, including the younger ones, threaten peers, and destroy property. At one point, she kicked, bit, and punched Tamile.

Following Savannah's third psychiatric stay in the summer of 2016, Tamile and David began looking for alternative living arrangements for Savannah. Neither of them felt capable of caring for Savannah, given her increasingly aggressive behavior and mental health issues. They asked Rebecca, Savannah's biological mother, if Savannah could temporarily stay with her at her farm in Ozark County, Missouri. Rebecca agreed, and in late 2016, Savannah left Minnesota for the last time.

Savannah lived with Rebecca until July 20th, 2017, when Rebecca reported her missing. A massive search ensued. Savannah wasn't found.

Investigators obtained a warrant to search Rebecca's farm. During the search, cadaver dogs hit on a burn pile. In that pile, investigators found what was left of Savannah: fragments of bones.

Rebecca and her husband, Robert Peat Junior (who frequently stayed at Rebecca's farm), were arrested for Savannah's murder. Investigators would later obtain an audio recording of Rebecca admitting to burning Savannah's body but denying murdering her. Rebecca would allege that Savannah killed herself by overdosing on pain medication.

Rebecca's case would be heard in front of a judge alone trial (elected by Rebecca) in June 2022. Prosecutors would allege that only half of Rebecca's confession was true. Based on a jailhouse informant's testimony, prosecutors would argue that Rebecca drugged Savannah, threw her in a fire, and when she woke up screaming, beat her to death with a rake. Then, Rebecca burnt Savannah's body.

Rebecca's defense lawyers would argue that Rebecca did burn Savannah's body, but that's all she did. They'd argue that Rebecca panicked, thinking she would be blamed for Savannah's suicide, and in the heat of the moment, made a terrible decision.

As of today, July 6th, 2022, the presiding judge has not yet rendered their verdict.

To support this podcast, go to:

Glow — accepts debit/credit, Apple Pay, Google Pay

Patreon — accepts debit/credit and PayPal

Every supporter makes a huge difference.

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When Danielle was 22 years old, she met her future husband, Michael Redlick. Michael, who was 43, was dating Danielle's mother, Kathleen.

Kathleen passed away from cancer, and a few years later, Michael and Danielle began dating. Eventually, they were married and had two children.

Their relationship was rocky from the start. Danielle alleges that throughout their 17-year marriage, Michael abused her. In 2019, Danielle learned that Mike had been unfaithful. She filed for divorce, but it was never finalized.

Tension between Danielle and Michael came to a head January 11th, 2019, when Danielle fatally stabbed Michael with a kitchen knife.

Danielle was charged with second degree murder and tampering with evidence.

Investigators were immediately suspicious of Danielle when they learned that she waited 11 hours before reporting her husband's death. Suspicion grew when investigators learned that Danielle had changed her story twice, and grew even further when they discovered that Danielle had been on a dating app, Meet Mindful, hours after killing her husband.

In June of 2022, Danielle was tried in Florida. Would jurors believe her story of self-defense? Or would they find, as the prosecution alleged, that Danielle murdered her husband so that she could start a new life?