Navigating Major Programmes

In this episode, Riccardo Cosentino sits down with fellow Oxford alumni, Rachael Patel, to discuss integrated project delivery (IPD). With a background as a registered nurse, Rachael brings her unique expertise to her current role in the health sector specializing in strategic planning and execution of health services, research and infrastructure projects in North America. The pair discuss the impediments and challenges of adoption of the IPD model, specifically how it relates to private and public healthcare major infrastructure projects and the procurement process.

“You add an integrated project delivery, where the idea is risk sharing and then you use that same methodology to calculate value for money, IPD will never win because IPDs base core base is sharing risk. It’s two issues in our procurement, it’s the idea of what value for money is and how we calculate money.”– Rachael Patel

Key Takeaways: 

• The origin of IPD and how its optimizing project design and construction 
• Why value for money is problematic for IPD
• Finding a better way to allocate risk, relational over transactional  
• The policy associated in procurement and how it is hindering the marketplace shift to alternative models

Links Mentioned: 

• A critical perspective on Integrated Project Delivery (IPD) applied in a Norwegian public hospital project
• Benefits and challenges to applying IPD: experiences from a Norwegian mega-project

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our LinkedIn community: 

• Navigating Major Programmes Podcast
• Riccardo Cosentino
• Rachael Patel

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:00

If you're listening to Navigating Major Programmes, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino. I bring over 20 years of major programme management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford Universities they business group, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us.  Racheal Patel is an Associate Vice President and senior project manager at a global architecture and engineering firm. She's a registered nurse, and also the Master of Science in major program management from the University of Oxford, and a Master of nursing from the University of Toronto. Racheal is a skilled leader in the health sector specializing in strategic planning and execution of health services, research and infrastructure projects in Canada and the United States. Her expertise includes guiding organization for the initial strategic planning phase, through detailed planning and design to the implementation of transformative and innovative capital projects. Hello, everyone.  Welcome to another episode of navigating major programs. I'm here today with Richard Patel. I met Racheal at Oxford University when we were completing together our mastering major program management. And I asked Racheal today to join us on the podcast to discuss her dissertation, which is quite interesting and very relevant to the topics that we've been discussing on navigating major programs. How're you doing, Racheal?

Racheal Patel  02:00

I'm good Ricardo. And thanks for having me here. I'm excited to have a platform to talk about my dissertation and you providing that platform to talk about major programs. So thank you very much for having me.  

Riccardo Cosentino  02:14

It's my pleasure. So maybe since I've tucked up your dissertation a little bit, well, what was the topic of your dissertation?  Yeah, so my topic was actually looking at the challenges of adopting integrated project delivery in health infrastructure here specifically in Ontario. And I kind of was interested in this because here in Ontario, as you know, we've been in a transactional type of model for some time, and I wanted to see could we push the boundary and look at other project delivery models that would achieve the the goals of infrastructure for healthcare in a different manner? Interesting. And you talk about transactional contracting, and you talk about IPD, can you maybe explain for some of our listeners the difference or what was in the context of your, your research, what those terms mean?

Racheal Patel  03:20

So when we when I say transactional, it's more of a contractual obligation. So it's what we see today, like a p3, you know, alternative delivery model where you have a relationship based on some terms and conditions. Relational, it's a similar idea in that more, they're not similar, but it's a similar idea, in that it's a relationship based model where you're working together as a team, there's no one, you know, a buyer and a seller you are, I guess, in a way, a group or collaborative, all working towards the same goal and you have incentives and so forth, in a nutshell, that it's different. We in transactional, as you know, you have contractual requirements, you're obligated to meet certain things, whereas in relational, it's really about the relationships and the collaboration and the people and people organizations that come together to deliver. So it's, it's harder, sorry, relational is more softer compared to transactional in my non legal way of trying to explain.

Riccardo Cosentino  04:41

So another way of putting that is an is one that of an example that I use in the past is that transactional contracting or is more of a zero sum game where there is a party, a winning party in the losing party. We're in relational contracting. We're all on the same table, we all have one common goal, one common incentive. And all of the incentives are aligned providing a more collaborative environment.  

Racheal Patel  05:11

Yeah, yeah, that's probably more eloquent and articulate in the way I'm trying to explain it. That yeah, like, with relational, and specifically with IPD, you have everyone coming together with a common goal objective, and you're all measured on that same group of objectives or metrics metrics. And I would say transactional is a very much risk transfer moving risk to one party to hold that and your obligation to meet those risks, that transfer of that risk. But yes, I would say what you what you said is more eloquent than how I'm trying to explain it.

Riccardo Cosentino  05:54

No, yours is more is more detailed and more accurate by this very broad strokes. But maybe maybe for again, for our listeners, I know, in your research, you know, part of your literature review you you actually had a bit of a dive into IPD, which means integrated project de...

“Projects get delivered by people and how we do things in our day to day life and how we make big decisions around our day to day life, whether it’s small or big, are actually very relatable on how we make decisions in the business world when funding, approving and delivering projects.”– Dr. Diana Nada
 

Dr. Diana brings over 20 years of experience advising public and private sector clients on strategies and toolkits for best practices in improved capital project delivery and informed decision making. She is a regular industry contributor, a published scholar educator with over 25 speaking engagements. She is the current AAC Canada Region One director, and is a member of the ULI Public Development and Infrastructure Council and the UK APM Project Assurance SIG. Diana is one of the contributing authors to the 2023 first edition for A Guide to Auditing Programmes and Projects, published by APM. She was shortlisted as one of the 2020 A Woman Infrastructure Network, emerging leaders in Canada.
 

Key Takeaways: 

• The importance of qualitative research in major projects, where social sciences intersect with major programmes
• Basing major project success on a rocky foundation, the deflation of estimates and unrealistic expectations
• How PMBOK (Project Management Body of Knowledge) and PMP (Project Management Professional) certification can evolve to encompass broader strategic considerations and better prepare major programme implementers
• Collaborative contracting and identifying collaboration (regardless of delivery method) as a key component for success in major programmes
• Performance measurement and how not aligning incentives can influences decision-making and team relationships
   

Links Mentioned: 

• Dr. Diane Nada’s Project Approval Decisions: Exploring Success Factors
• Curbing Optimism Bias and Strategic Misrepresentation in Planning: Reference Class Forecasting in Practice by Bent Flyvbjerg
• Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman 
   

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community via LinkedIn: 

• Navigating Major Programmes on LinkedIn
• Follow Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Follow Dr. Diana Nada, PhD on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I pressed the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Dr. Diana nada is a project management expert and advisory mega capital projects, a civil engineer by background with a PhD in project management from the University of Calgary. She brings over 20 years of experience advising public and private sector clients on strategies and toolkits for best practices in improved capital project delivery and informed decision making. She is a regular industry contributor, a published scholar educator with over 25 speaking engagement. She is the current AAC Canada region one director, and is a member of the ULI public development and infrastructure Council and the UK APM project assurance SIG. Diana is one of the contributing over to the 2023 first edition for a guide to auditing problems and project published by APM. She will show listed as one of the 2020 A woman infrastructure network, emerging leaders in Canada. Hello, everyone. Welcome to our new episode on navigating major programs. today. I'm here with Diana nada PhD. Diana did a dissertation a few years ago. And I was very intrigued by her dissertation. And so I asked her to join us today in the on the podcast. How are you doing, Diana? Great. All right.

Diana Nada  02:15

Thank you, Riccardo for having me.

Riccardo Cosentino  02:17

Nice to have you. Yeah, I took a lot of joy in reading your dissertation. And it's was quite interesting for me because it was written a few years ago. And some of the topic is still extremely relevant. But you know, maybe you can tell us a little bit more about your dissertation, why you picked it, and what do you learn from it?

Diana Nada  02:37

Okay, so it's very interesting that we're having this conversation right now. Actually, I did defend the PhD, exactly 10 years ago, around October 1. So if it's been 10 years, and every time I check it, then you've made me go and look into it again. And and remember some of the reasons why I picked this or that. So it's very interesting to reflect after all of those years, maybe a bit about myself. I'm a civil engineer by background, but got very intrigued by project management early on, in my degree. Coming in, as a third culture kid with parents who are engineers, I decided to go into engineering, just probably not by choice, but expectation. My career has been very interesting that I grew up in Dubai. And by the time I graduated and finished my masters, it was very booming in Dubai early 2000s. And I ended up working in a lot of mega projects, a lot of big projects in with a lot of multinationals. In you see how projects get executed get funded. And for me, it was more of I've seen it from the side of delivery and working with a project management consultant. But then I worked also as a developer, and this gave me a bit of like, okay, I've worked on the same project on both sides of the table. And I could see things differently. So I wanted to step back and know more why, why projects go over budget, why there are scheduled delays. And I wanted to explore that and know more about it because project management is a very applied field. I felt that there is a lot in literature and research that actually doesn't get translated into the industry. And that's when I decided to move to Canada and did my PhD at the University of Calgary. Big thanks to my late supervisor, Professor Francis Hartman. I have to say when I started my degree, I presented a specific research interest And then the first day I met him, I said, I don't want to do that. And he was a great mentor. And I don't think I did my research, the outcome of it. And where I was few years later was what I anticipated. It was more of a journey, and a learning experience and a reflection of what I saw in Dubai, what I was seeing in Canada, it was the recession, the financial crisis has just started. By the time I graduated, there was the oil crisis in Calgary. So it's always an opportunity to just re...

In this episode, Riccardo sits down with two of the voices behind the Digital Twin Fun Club podcast, Henry Fenby-Taylor and Neil Thompson. The trio speaks accuracy versus bias and how technology (digital twins specifically) can help mitigate risk within the complex world of infrastructure.  

“I think people generally have the wrong expectation of technology. They think ‘Oh, we’re going to be able to predict the future.’ Actually the value of these things isn’t about being able to predict the future, it’s about being able to adapt as quickly as possible to changing circumstances.”  –Neil Thompson

Key Takeaways:  

• Defining a digital twin, the difference between a BIM and digital twin
• The true value of technology (spoiler alert: it is not about predicting the future)
• The transition from sourcing the “cheapest” to “best” solution
• Major programmes as a symphony, an analogy of perspective
• Collaboration through technology for parallel problem solving approach

Links Mentioned:  

• Benedict Evans’ Presentations
• Noise by Daniel Kahneman
• Bent Flyvbjerg’s How Big Things Get Done

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Follow Henry Fenby-Taylor on LinkedIn
• Follow Neil Thompson on LinkedIn
• Follow Digital Twin Fun Club Podcast on LinkedIn
• Follow Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Navigating Major Programmes on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:00

If you're listening to navigate the major programs, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino I bring over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Moxa universities they business group, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major problem management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of navigating major programs. Today I'm joined by two guests from the digital twin fun club. Gonna let them introduce themselves.

Henry Fenby-Taylor  01:04

Hi, I'm Henry Fenby Taylor, host of the digital twin fan club, podcast and editor and coordinator and I also run my own digital transformation and communications consultancy. Hi,

Neil Thompson01:18

Hi everyone. I'm Neil Thompson. I'm a digital fanclub cleaner owner and co founder, I guess, their day job I work at AtkinsRéalis, and I do things around digital transformation. I also have some other hats around the industry, my chair, the built environment for the Institute of Engineering Technology, also lucky enough to have gained an Honorary Associate Professor of the Bartlett School of sustainable construction, all things. Construction economics related. So I'm really interested to have this conversation because I've, I've been listening to some episodes and really fascinated in this sort of world between digital tools and how we incentivize people to do things is fascinating. So I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Riccardo Cosentino  02:08

Yeah, me too. Definitely. I'd well if we're comparing hats. I'm also on the construction industry councils. Net Zero climate change panel, and then CIC 2050, board member of a core member of zero construct as well. So I have a very strong interest in net zero in this space as well. Which is a key economic question, isn't it? Really?  Yes. Especially today with the especially in the UK, especially today with a big news from last week? Ya know, um, you know, I'm Riccardo Cosentino I think the listeners know me, and I think today, I'm really keen to explore, you know, how can digital tools, digital twin help us navigate the major programs? I have cheeky and cheesy really trying to make a comparison there. I think digital twin and digital tools today are like the Google Maps of for navigating major problems, while in the old days, we used to just have maps. And so I think it's, it's an important intersection. As project complexity gets bigger and bigger. So to the tool that we need to manage that complexity need to need to be adopted. And, you know, that's, that's my contribution to this podcast.

Henry Fenby-Taylor  03:35

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a very key issue. So we always start with what is a digital twin, I feel that there is often uncertainty, or lack of clarity around that. And I feel like adding some definitions to that will give us some simplicity. And then people can know what we're talking about. I've got my own definitions, but I'll let you go first, Neil.

Neil Thompson04:03

Oh, cheeky. I, so I got a, I have two views of digital twins. One is sort of the variation of, you know, we need to represent physical assets in a digital way. And hence the digital twin. And we use a series of technologies to achieve that. My other end of the telescope definition of it is we're connecting critical national infrastructure to the internet at different levels of maturity. So one end of the end of maturity is existing things that work today. There's things that we're planning for the future. And then there's things that we're building in between and all those things have some sort of interface with the internet, which may sound a bit strange saying it that way, but it's it's for me, it's just connecting these things together digitally with

Henry Fenby-Taylor  04:59

jazz I can't believe I've got to say jazz first and about gas. So my definition of a digital twin is that it is a system where there is a real thing that we are trying to manage or look after. And it could be designed simulate, construct, operate, you know, or it could be at the highest level of strategy, there's a thing that we need to manage. And so many things are complex, obviously, major programs are very complex, organizationally, technically, what they're trying to do, very complex. And so we need a better understanding of that real thing by measuring digitally understanding in a system that can tell us what is really happening with that system. Not only do we have good interfaces, so it's not just about having a nice dashboard. But it's about empowering people to make better decisions on the coalface of their job, right? From the very, most operational on the tools level, all the way up to strategic direction, measuring key performance indicators. And I think it's that connection by Neil says that I...

In this episode, Riccardo Cosentino takes us behind the scenes of developing the Navigating Major Programmes podcast and shares why he started this podcast—well before he was ready. Taking us through his career in infrastructure (and the brief moment he almost became restaurateur), Riccardo highlights his leadership learnings and how graduating from Oxford Saïd Business School’s MSc Major Programme Management dismantled his imposter syndrome, a necessity in becoming an effective leader. You’re going to want to grab a pen and paper for one because Riccardo shares practical leadership tips that will help you get your team’s performance to the highest level.  

“Ultimately, the cost of leadership training is insignificant compared to the cost overruns or schedule overruns major programmes encounter every day.”  

Key Takeaways:  

• Imposter syndrome and why starting a podcast helped Riccardo overcome it
• Does a personal brand have a place in major programmes?  
• How to successfully use LinkedIn within the infrastructure industry  
• Why leadership training should be required in major projects  

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Riccardo Cosentino’s Leadership Articles on LinkedIn
• Navigating Major Programmes on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate the major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino I brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Hello, everyone. Welcome to a new episode of navigating major programs. Today will be my first solo podcast, I will have no guests today. So you will be listening to me rambling away hopefully won't be rambling it will be interesting, interesting topics that we cover in this podcast. I started. I started this podcast very recently, and I have no previous experience in podcasting. I'm an avid listener, but I never, never led or recorded podcasts before. Reason why I started this podcast. Mostly I wanted to elevate the conversation about major programs, I wanted to have a platform where we can think through major programs, we can think through issues associated with major programs. I also wanted to give an opportunity to some of my classmates and future classmates and past classmates to have a platform where they could present the research. As many of you know and carried out I finished a master's degree Oxford called MMPM mastering major program management. And while I was doing my dissertation, it occurred to me that many of my classmates were also doing very valuable research. But unlike a PhD, this research doesn't really get published, some of the dissertation are about the quality that can be can be published in in journals. However, a lot of the dissertations don't quite meet that threshold. However, it's very, very interesting research that should have a platform to be presented. Rather than just ending up on a shelf on somebody's on somebody's bedroom or living room. This is why I started the podcast. Starting the podcasts was very nerve racking for me. It took me it took me almost a year to find the courage to actually record the first series, the first five episodes, I actually recorded the very first episode two years ago, but then never had the never had the courage I guess, to follow through with the rest of the episodes. So I sat sat on this project for a very long time, it was very nerve wracking for me, I procrastinated, I postponed the recording until I was really what would happen is what was at Oxford graduating from my, from a master's degree. A lot of my colleagues and classmates were congratulating me for having a strong presence on LinkedIn and to for having a strong voice on LinkedIn. And they told me they were very enthusiastic about the material I

was publishing. And that kind of gave me the gave me the strength to overcome my imposter syndrome, where I didn't think anybody would listen to my podcast. So that's that's why it took me two years, I was really suffering from impostor syndrome, I didn't think I had anything valuable to say, and I really needed to get that boost from my graduation. And you know, from achieving that major milestone in my life of getting a degree from Oxford University to gain and that gave me the strength to overcome my fears, and get going with a podcast. So the journey of the podcast really started with with my LinkedIn profile, I realized that I wanted to have my own voice on LinkedIn, and realize that the conversation that people were having on LinkedIn, were not deep enough. And I wanted to bring my voice, as I said before, and so I started very slowly, I started by just updating my profile, I then developed a bit of a personal brand strategy. And I found a front sort of the path that I wanted to follow on LinkedIn. And I just started publishing my own opinions and my own views on major programs. And that wasn't an easy journey. As I said, I remember I remember when I first started using LinkedIn properly. So I've been using LinkedIn obviously from from when he started back in the late 2000s. However, I was just, I was just a passive user, I was not somebody that would engage. And I remember being on the platform and reading reading posts and having really strong views about the post, but not having the courage to actually put a comment, or publish a comment. And I remember always writing in the comment box and then deleted it and then moving on. So for me, even just engaging in the conversation was very difficult. And again, back to impostor syndrome, I was, I was afraid that my contribution was not valuable, I was afraid of saying the wrong thing I was, I wasn't sure that people would appreciate what I had to say. So I had to overcome that in order to be active on LinkedIn. And it is like everything else, it's really a journeys, it's training, you're almost have to train yourself to engage and you start small, we start with comments, liking, and then you start, you know, resharing, maybe somebody's else experienced that someone else post. And eventually you start writing your own post, and you start creating your own voice. That has been my journey on on LinkedIn. And but it started with a strategy. And maybe that's a little bit over the top, but I wanted, I wanted to our strategy, so that I knew what topics I would cover, and what will my message would be. And that's what I recommend for people that are not engaging with LinkedIn, start small start by just comment this start by engaging the conversation and then see what that takes you. And if that becomes enjoyable, start posting your material, we all have interesting things to say. And don't be tra...

In this week’s episode, Riccardo and guest co-host, Corail, sit down with fellow alumna, Carol Tansley to discuss her Oxford Saïd Business School dissertation on the institutional barriers to adopting integrated project delivery (IPD) on a nuclear mega project. Carol's impressive career, spanning two decades, is rooted in executing major programs for the UK Government Department for Work, HMRC, and DTI. As a recognized authority in large-scale IT and business transformations, her expertise took her to the Middle East, notably participating in the groundbreaking nuclear project in Abu Dhabi, marking the inauguration of the first nuclear power plant in the Arab world. Ninety-seven percent of nuclear major programmes go over time and over budget, so how did Carol (with no nuclear background) participate in delivering one two days early? This is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

“IPD may represent a methodology that would work has been proven to work in first of a kind environments. And while we have the field conditions now to embrace that, we need people that are willing to go out and embrace these new ways of working and seek to implement them.”

Key Takeaways: 

• The role Eternal Beginner Syndrome plays in complex nuclear programmes.
• The perceived barriers against adopting new models and how cultural and cognitive biases can masquerade as genuine obstacles.
• Carol’s experience at Nuclear Week in the UK parliament and the future trends of the nuclear industry—energy security goals, securing affordable supplies and tackling climate change.
• Attracting the younger generation to the nuclear sector to support climate solutions and the expected 40 percent growth rate.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Carol Tansley on LinkedIn
• Corail Bourrelier Fabiani on LinkedIn
• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate the major programes, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University’s Day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion-dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Carol Tansley was appointed Vice President X energy UK new build projects in September 2022. In this role, she oversees all x-energy's activities towards establishing the XE 100 as the prominent I temperature gas reactor technology in the United Kingdom. Prior to joining IX energy, Carol served as the operational readiness Control Center Director for the early successful Emirates nuclear energy cooperation startup of the Barakah nuclear plant in the UAE. She was also the new Newa energy company director of strategic programs. Prior to this, she served as a senior director for PwC in the UK and UAE, as well as working at Accenture delivering some of the UK is largest public sector change programs. She recently graduated with distinction from the University of Oxford, with an MSc in major program management. Carol's research focuses on causes of poor performance on nuclear mega project, and potential benefits of adopting relational contracting models.

Corail 02:05

Hello, Carol Heller, Ricardo, I'm super happy to talk to you today. And thank you so much for the opportunity to interview Carol on your podcast, Ricardo, I think we all met in Oxford during the MMPMcourse. And it was wonderful to learn about Carol's experience about the nuclear industry, which is one of the most complex industries, you can find say, I think the listener will be so happy to hear about Carol's story and what you have to say are all about the future of this industry. First of all, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about your background and how you fell into the nuclear sector. I know that there is a little value at the start of this episode to talk about your career, but it would be great to hear from your words how how you got into that very complex industry.

Carol Tansley 03:05

Okay, thank you very much corral. And thank you, Riccardo. I really appreciate the opportunity. One to both be back together again, because we haven't seen each other for a little while and to to talk on your podcast. So thank you very much. And just in terms of my background, my professional career has all been in delivering major projects and programs. The first I'll call it almost 20 years was in the UK, delivering major programs for the UK Government Department for Work in pensions HMRC. What was DTI. A lot of the large transformation programs that came with large scale it development programs and the business transformation that sat around that in around 2010. I moved to work on a project in the Middle East. It was for the Ministry of Interior in Abu Dhabi, a large transformation program that we're doing now it was a joint Middle East UK project and it covered the police Abu Dhabi police that covered Civil Defense prisons borders. And I was there for a couple of years. I then went to Saudi Arabia and worked for on a big transformation program for Ministry of Labor. And it was when I'd been there for a couple of years that I was asked to join the nuclear project that they were delivering in Abu Dhabi, you may be aware that they are they've delivered the first nuclear power plant in the Arab world. It was a new to nuclear country, what they've achieved there is quite phenomenal with the vision of the leaders of that country. So they pass their legislation to become a nuclear country and to get my program moving in 2009 They broke ground if you like so poured first concrete and 2012 and they got their first unit online by loading fuel for the first unit right before COVID Hit actually And two days ahead of schedule on the 17th of February 2020. And I was privileged to be part of that program, I was asked to join that program because of my background in major program delivery, not because I had anything to do with nuclear. So it was really, it was an amazing journey, great learning curve, an amazing sector to be part of, particularly now that it is going to play such an important role in the energy transition, the drive to net zero and energy security goals for countries around the world.

Corail 05:33

Absolutely is really impressive as well that you delivered two days early this project, which is so unusual in I think, in your research somewhere, you said that there is a study that said that over 97% of nuclear major projects are delayed, that cost overruns, etc, all across the globe. So it's quite unusual. Isn't that very unusual in that industry? How on earth did you make this happen? Like how did you manage to deliver early such a complex program?

Carol Tansley 06:08

Yeah, well, you're absolutely right about what you say its nuclear mega projects, I'll call th...

In this week’s episode, Riccardo switches chairs and guest host, Jim Barnard, asks all the questions. Riccardo shares insights from his Oxford Saïd Business School dissertation on the use of collaborative contracting into major programmes, specifically PPP structures. Riccardo and Jim delve into the complications and complexities of risk management, adversarial situations, stakeholders and shareholders and private financing.  

“When you have collaborative contracting, you almost waive your legal rights or your rights to pursue legal remedies. And so, all of the parties are around the table. There are many advantages of collaborative contracting, but the simplest one is, instead of hiring lawyers to sort out disputes, you’re redeploying those resources to actually solving project problems.”

Key Takeaways:  

• The price of winning contracts in the PPP market and how the public sector entity comes into play
• Why collaborative contracting provides better odds for finishing on time and on budget, but equity has to take more risk
• PPP and politics, how do we navigate it?

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Jim Bernard on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate the major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations

happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm

your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most

recently, I graduated from Oxford University Said business school, which shook my belief when it

comes to navigating major problems. Now, it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press

the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and

the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion-dollar projects. Let's see what the

conversation takes us. Hello, and welcome to a new episode of navigating major programs. Today

we're going to be doing things a little bit differently. My friend, and one point guest of the show as

agreed kindly to be hosting this podcast. And we'll do a role reversal where I'm going to be doing the

presenting and Jim Barnard is going to co-host the show. And today we're going to talk about a topic

that is very close to my heart, which is the use of collaborative contracting into major programs,

especially into PPP structures. I've done a full dissertation at Oxford as part of my master, major

program management, and I decided that it'd be good to walk you through my findings and my

conclusion. Anyway, let me introduce the host for today. Jim Bernard. How you doing? Jim?

Jim 02:00

I'm great. Riccardo, thanks for having me. Big fan of the podcast, obviously had the chance to be on a

previously so very much appreciate the opportunity to be host this time.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:11

So today, as I said, I'll be a be doing the talking. And you'll be doing the asking. Maybe I can start? I'll

jump right into it unless you have a specific question for me. And maybe I can give a bit of a bit of an

overview of my research thesis and some of my findings and some of my conclusions.

Jim 02:34

2

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Yes, summary will be great, a perfect place to start. But some of our folks listening may not be

completely familiar with even the concept of collaboration. And I know having read your dissertation

that you get into some fairly technical and detailed topics relative to finance and how structures are set

up and that type of thing. So for those of us either less familiar or kind of new to the topic, if you don't

mind, let's start as basic as possible.

Riccardo Cosentino 03:03

Okay, well, let's start with, let's start with what prompted me to research this specific topic, the probably

a good place to start here. I you know, I'm a professional the work in public private partnership over the

last 20 years. So again, a lot of knowledge about the topic, I have structured and finance many

transactions that use non recourse financing. And a couple of years ago, my company decided to exit

the what we call the lump sum turnkey business, which is the type of contracting where a private sector

entity commits to deliver a project on time and on budget and every any cost overruns. And at any cost,

and any time overruns are absorbed by the entity that has committed to deliver the project. So my

company has been losing a lot of money with the stock form a contract. So in 2018, we decided to

exited. However, this type of contract is the cornerstone of non recourse financing, recourse financing

is financing that doesn't, doesn't lean on the asset of the parent company, but the only leans on the

asset of the other special purpose vehicle that is delivering the project,

Jim 04:26

basically. Project.

Riccardo Cosentino 04:29

Yes. Right. So it's basically the future revenues, that that's the only recourse available to lenders debt

and equity lenders is access to, to project revenues rather than corporate revenue associated with the

entity that is delivered project.

Jim 04:49

Right.

Riccardo Cosentino 04:50

And because my company exited this business lumpsum turnkey, indirectly we also exited the

construction portion of public private partnerships were where entities or companies, contractors are

hired to deliver the project under the structure. However, we still wanted to stay involved in contracting.

So what we started researching is different types of contracts and collaborative contracting, came up

alliances IPD all forms of contract that they include a large component of collaboration. In this type of

contracts, the risk is not transferred to the product to the contracting entity is the risk of on time

completion and on budget completion stays within the project sponsor. There is a Pain Gain sharing

mechanism, where the contracting entity, the contractor that is delivering the project puts their fee risk,

but they're not taking on the cost of around burden that is typical of lump sum turnkey. So once we

started researching this, the question that I was asked many, many times, being the expert in public

private partnership is can we convince clients and lenders to use collaborative contracting within the

non recourse PPP structure? And intuitively, I didn't think it was possible, I did some preliminary

3

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

research as part of my job. But I couldn't really find conclusive answers of why collaboratively

contracting could or could not be used within a PPP structure,

Jim 06:45

where I take a step back down, how did you do your preliminary research was at a qualitative research,

quantitative research and kind of benefits of both detriments of both How did you choose what method

did you use and how did you choose it.

Riccardo Cosentino 06:58

So during what while I was still working, so before I use an academic method, ...

Do women still need to get on the course to progress their careers in major programmes? Does The Boys Club still exist in 2023? Inclusivity and ambition—how are they connected? Navigating Major Programmes podcast co-host, Corail Bourrelier Fabiani, shares her Oxford Saïd Business School dissertation’s insightful findings in this week’s episode. Riccardo and Corail take a deep dive into equality, diversity and inclusion in the infrastructure industry uncovering the taboo topics that have been avoided for decades.  

“In the research, you can see that women's interests are not really accommodated in major urban transport infrastructure programs,” says Corail. “And there is a big gender data gap, which is kind of reinforcing inequalities in this space. In my opinion, all this is reinforced by the fact that we don't have enough women at the top. So I thought, how are we changing this?”  

Corail, the accomplished programme manager behind projects such as the Paddington Square Public Art Programme and the Shard Quarter Public Art Programme in London, concludes the discussion with four steps to solve this complex, systemic issue.  

Key Takeaways:  

• The seven gender-related challenges in major programmes and how to solve them.
• How language labels leaders as men and how applications can encourage the women talent pool to apply.
• How to alter networking and affinity bias in order to better support women in infrastructure and why women-designed networks with male allies are so vital.
• The scarcity mindset and what happens to women at the top.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Corail Bourrelier Fabiani on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:05

You're listening to Navigating Major Programmes, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Hi, welcome back to another episode of navigating major programs. Today I'm here with a recurring guest and co-host of this podcast.  

Corail  01:03

I am with Corail

Riccardo Cosentino  01:04

l, how're you doing?

Corail  01:06

I am doing great. Thank you, Riccardo,

Riccardo Cosentino  01:08

Thank you for joining us again. Really glad that you're here today. Today, we're gonna talk about your dissertation from your master's degree at Oxford. If I remember correctly, you did a dissertation titled, "do women need to play golf in order to lead measure programs?" really catchy title? But maybe you can tell us a bit more why you picked that dissertation? And what dissertation was all about?

Corail  01:39

Yeah, sure. Yeah. So yeah, this title was kind of a humorous reference to an HBR article, which said that basically, many women in male dominated industries feel compelled to play golf to access to the top leadership network. And my research was about women's network, and how can those women network help change the culture of major program, which are notoriously male dominated environments? And I thought it was funny that some women would think like, Okay, I'm gonna play golf, so make the most important contact, and I was like, okay, is this still happening? Do we still need to go on, on the course to get this important contact. So I did this research as part of our MSc in major program management at the Said business school. And it was really like, out of had the like, how out of an impulse after an event that happened during a master's degree. And I don't know if you remember that. But basically, each year, the program gets the opportunity to do a debate at the famous Oxford Union. And during our cohort, we have Ella a brilliant change manager, men's leader, who proposed the motion for that debate, which was around the importance of gender diversity in major programs, team versus versus experience. And we were all quite excited to debate this topic at the Union. But basically, the university got back to us and said, it's too late volatile as a topic. So they brushed it off, and they say, maybe debate another topic. And at the time, I was really shocked. And I think we were all the women of our cohort. I think we were below 30%, maybe around 28% 25% 28% of women in the cohort. And we were all pretty upset about this decision. Because we didn't understand it. We were like this is the Oxford Union the Union debates corruption slavery, things like that. And we can talk about that, you know, gender diversity in major program, but I saw Okay, that's that's say something right about our industry and about the I think the leap that we have to make to make it an OK topic, you know, to talk about that. So we decided to self organize, and to redo that debate, just organized by students. And it was a great, great moment. And I thought, Okay, I want to look deeper into all this EDI questions on major program. So I started like looking a little bit into what the UK Government says about gender diversity in major program. So I looked at the infrastructure and projects authority report at the time. And what I found was quite upsetting when you look at the budget, although major programs represent like astronomical budgets in the UK, but first of all, only 10% last year were classified as likely to be successful, and most of them only had just thought So you think there is an issue they are right. And in the IPA report, they acknowledge that the main issue was with capacity and capability of the teams and of the leadership in the UK. But there was no mention at all about, you know, the fact that we are losing opportunity, because we're not leveraging women's talent pool. And I looked deeper into it. And I looked at the appointment process for senior responsible owners, you know, the leader of this major program. And I found that although there is a mention about diversity, in the report, it's very, like there are no real KPIs or practical ways to do it, or methodologies or anything, and when you look at what they're looking for the SRO usually in, in a biased environment, you would, it's more oriented towards male. So there, we have something like, You should possess strong leadership and decision making skills, that's fine. But when you are in a male dominated industry, leadership resonate with a man. So that's where we'll come to your man. Mind. Sorry. And that's, you know, for example, Bent Flybjerg, called the major program leaders, Master Builder, Master Builder, as a word, I think you will think about a man rather than a woman, just just with that simple words. There are other things that I thought were interesting in the way they said this the label thing, for example, they say, you need to have the experience, the character and personality that are right for th...

In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Oxford Saïd Business School alumnus Riccardo sits down with fellow alumna, Kimberley Heraux, to discuss her dissertation on the use of intelligent technology in major projects. The pair discuss everything from the role contractual agreements play in the success of intelligent technologies, to treating the implementation of AI as a complex programme itself.  

Héraux is an experienced program manager with a demonstrated history of delivering complex projects and programs in the higher education sector and in private industry. Her experience includes but isn’t limited to: Enterprise Software Deployments, Data Center, IT Infrastructure, Cybersecurity, Integration and ITIL.  

“If you treat the implementation of intelligent technology into a major programme as a complex program itself,” says  Héraux “We can shift the mindset to have two Galbraith's Star Models.”

Key Takeaways:  

• Why we should look at major programmes as an information processing system, plus why information flow will directly increase productivity.
• The obsession with time and progress and why this mindset blatantly disregards proven program management processes.  
• The two classes of AI technologies that are altering the iron triangle.  
• The “SWAT team” mentality, benefits of agile processes; welcoming change in major programmes.  
• Collaborative contracting to improve the flow of data and reduce risk in major programmes.  

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Kimberley Heraux on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Kimberly echo is best known for a drive to deliver organizational transformation through major technology initiatives. She is currently serving as a program leader on an industry defining technology major program by the US fortune 50 company. Kimberly is passionate about technology, elevating team culture and firmly believes in the indomitability of the collaborative AI performance project team. Kimberly holds a Master's of Science major program management from the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom, and a Bachelor of Science in international business from the California State University, Northridge. When she isn't busy running major technology initiatives, you can find Kimberly running on Southern California's beaches and wine tasting. Hello, welcome back to another episode of navigate the bigger programs. Today we're here with Kimberly servo. And today we're going to discuss intelligent technology in construction mega projects. Hi, Kimberly, how you doing today?

Kimberley Heraux 01:56

Very well. Ricardo, thank you so much for having me on. This is very exciting. I've also been very curious about you know about some of the research that's been done in this space. So very happy to join the conversation.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:10

Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad you're on today. It's it's a very interesting topic. I know you wrote a dissertation about this topic for your master Oxford. How did you decide to write a dissertation about intelligent technologies in megaprojects?

Kimberley Heraux 02:27

Well, so my background, I built a career managing complex, IT projects, information technology projects. And if you think about artificial intelligence, it is technology. You know, you're we're increasing, we're seeing an increase in the use of AI in all types of technology. So naturally, when it came to selecting a dissertation topic, for for my Oxford, MMPM, I naturally gravitated to, well, gee, what will start to happen when we see mega projects, adopt systems that are increasingly outfitted with artificial intelligence. So that's how that's how I came up with that topic. You know, because I really find myself being interested in being able to deliver results and through technology that sort of that what has excited me all along my career, you know, is being able to deliver IT solutions that really make a difference to the bottom line of the organization. So I had, you know, a couple of a couple of experiences early in my career, one of which I like to cite and tell people, that's how I caught the bug of you know, getting excited about implementing IT systems where we, you know, we had a project where essentially, I was able to see the direct impact of properly implemented IT solution on the business where essentially, I was working for a manufacturer whose shipping process was very sensitive. And essentially, at the end of the project, we had cut down the time that it took to ship the product by over 60%. So shipping times were now a third of what they were. So that's when I caught the bug of my goodness, you know, technology can really, really make a difference in an organization's performance. So that's a tie in for you.

Riccardo Cosentino 04:27

That would be an amazing achievement if we could increase the productivity of mega project by 60%. But okay, maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves we're getting ahead of ourselves.

Kimberley Heraux 04:40

I think it would be a very different world and Oxford would be very very proud of us

Riccardo Cosentino 04:48

so before we get into into the into the discussion, maybe we need to do a little bit of scene setting and just frame what what we mean by intelligent technologies because I think in today's world, I mean, we have so many, so many words and so much jargon around AI and intelligent technology that I think it's, it's important that we frame what we mean in this particular setting.

Kimberley Heraux 05:15

Very good. Yes, we can do that. So what I mean by intelligent technologies is, in the context of my research, it refers to artificial intelligence and the suite of technologies that complement or contribute to it. So what I mean by that is, so you take sensors, for instance, that are able to gather data, that can into a database that can then be used, you know, where AI algorithms analyze that data for you. So that would be a technology that contributes to, you know, artificial intelligence capabilities. Other technologies that complement AI, maybe things like modeling tools that allow you to, you know, gather interesting disciplinary data, because as you'll find out, when you talk about artificial intelligence, there's, you know, you know, data is a big part of that picture. So intelligent technologies is meant to refer to AI specifically. So algorithms that you know, pick up patterns...

In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Oxford Saïd Business School alumni Riccardo and guest host Corail, interview fellow alumnus, Jim Bernard. Jim specializes in real estate investment programme design, structured finance, risk conceptualization and strategic partnership formation. With an impressive track record spanning over 25 years, Jim has accumulated more than 4 billion dollars in real estate investment experience. Now, as a partner at consultancy and as a major programme advisor, Jim is focusing on disrupting traditional approaches to major programme management—making him an exceptional expert to share his insights on this podcast.  

Key Takeaways:  

• Why major programme management in North America is behind the UK and what needs to improve in order to catch up.
• The practicality of the Galbraith Star Model™ in major programmes and why People and Rewards need earlier attention.  
• Considering the perception of major programmes as temporary organizations as well as their nonlinear evolution.  
• The power of major programmes as they relate to climate improvement initiatives.  

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Jim Bernard on LinkedIn
• Corail Bourrelier Fabiani on LinkedIn
• Two Roads Group website

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host, Riccardo Cosentino I brings over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's day business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major prpgrams. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode, as I press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. James Michael Barnard, commonly known as Jim is a highly accomplished professional specializing in real estate investment program design, structure finance, risk leadership, and strategic partnership formation. With an impressive track record spanning over 25 years, Jim has accumulated more than $4 billion in real estate investment experience. Currently, Jim serves as a partner at Two Roads Group, a consultancy he co founded with a focus on disrupting traditional approaches to measure program management by employing novel and empirically supported methods for risk mitigation, decision making and stakeholder engagement. He also serves as a major program management advisor for AI cumulus. Additionally, Jim is the founder of the Regal, a privately held investment company that concentrates on sustainable real estate assets. Outside of his professional pursuits, Jim actively engages in community service as a member of the town Castine Planning Board, and serves as a director on the SMU Cox School of Business alumni board. He is also an accomplished diver and a skilled jazz pianist. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of navigating major programs. I'm here today with my co host, a guest appearance from Corail with my esteemed colleague and friend Jim Barnard, who has graciously agreed to join the podcast today and talk to us about his new venture and his new approach in helping major programs. How are we doing, guys? How are you doing, Jim?

Jim 02:37

Great. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Corail 02:39

Hi, Riccardo

Jim 02:40

Carail.

Corail 02:41

I'm doing great. Thank you for having me again. And I'm excited to hear more about Jim today.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:47

And by the way, today, we were joining the podcast. I'm in Toronto. Jim is in Maine, and Correll is in London. So you got a truly international episode?

Corail 02:57

Yes, very much.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:59

So why don't we Why don't we jump right into it? Corail, I think you're gonna help me co host today's episode, the new format for us. But you being a guest on this show before? So I think you're you're almost almost part of the family. Why don't you take it away?

Corail 03:18

Hi, Jim. I hope you're well and nice to see to see you and hear you. I wanted to ask Can you please introduce yourself to our listeners today and tell us a little bit about your career?

Jim 03:32

Sure, It'd be my pleasure. My name is Jim Barnard. I'm fortunate to have been a classmate with your two esteemed hosts here at the University of Oxford and major program management program at Syed business school. How I came to the program. Let's see. I was a CFO for real estate, sustainable real estate investment development company in Austin, Texas for about five years before I applied to Oxford. My background had always been in real estate. I'd done it since I graduated from university. At the time, we were struggling with some fairly common major program themes, complexity or projects are getting more difficult, more intricate, larger, we are having challenges scaling. So interestingly, I was sitting in a conference room trying to sketch out a risk curve with my team in the finance department to try to figure out where he has some significant exposure and one of my co workers looked at the whiteboard and said, you know, there's a whole program at the University of Oxford that takes on these questions directly. So I I bet him that if he would write a recommendation I would make the application under no circumstances did neither one of us think that we would be or that I would be admitted to the program. But here we are two years later having survived it and fortunately, having had the chance to work with great people like the two of you You learn a whole lot about managing major programs.

Corail 05:03

Yeah, congratulation. Jimmy did I think wonderful in the program, and he was really interesting, you know, to hear about your experience throughout and your background. I was wondering like, I think we both know Ricardo and I, that you started in entrepreneurial adventure after the program. Can you tell us a bit more about what led you to start your own business after the program? And why are you particularly interested in consulting in the fields of major programs?

Jim 05:39

Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I haven't started this alone. In fact, you both probably know very well, some of the people that are investing in the, in the consultancy with me. And that alone is a privilege. So the opportunity to work together with like minded colleagues, who've enjoyed similar professional backgrounds, or have had similar professional backgrounds was probably one of the primary reasons why I decided to start this consulting practice. But really, the, I guess the motivation came out of, believe it or not the global financial crisis in 2008. A couple of us back in Austin, with thi...

In this episode, Riccardo Cosentino is joined by Oxford classmate, Vicente Cunha, to discuss his MSc in Major Programme Management dissertation on early completion payment as a mechanism to incentivize collaboration in major programmes. The pair dive into the importance of trust and transparency in major programmes and our industry’s struggle to implement either. Cunha explains why a shift in mindset and a touch of empathy could be a gamechanger for major programmes.

Cunha is an accomplished Industrial Engineer and with over 15 years of experience in the oil and gas industry, primarily focused on delivering complex construction projects involving large oil and gas floating production units. He brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to his work, affording him a critical perspective on the integral factors behind the design, procurement and management of large construction contracts. He is particularly passionate about forging a strong alignment between in-house construction and operations teams and establishing productive and collaborative relationships with all project stakeholders, to achieve the best possible outcome.

Key Takeaways: 

• The six must-have, evidence-based contract specs that should be included on projects to improve results.
• Why early completion incentives do not necessarily lead to better outcomes.
• Red flag behaviours to avoid for effective contractor collaboration.
• Relational contracting vs traditional contracting and the importance of risk balance.
• The truth about where empathy and major programmes intersect.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community via LinkedIn: 

Riccardo Cosentino’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cosentinoriccardo/  

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Vicente Cunha’s LinkedIn
• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:05

You're listening to navigate the major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino a brings over 20 years of major program management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxbow universities they business group, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. We sent a Konya is an accomplished industrial engineer who has an impressive MSc in major program management from the prestigious University of Oxford. He is a seasoned professional with over 15 years of experience in oil and gas industry primarily focused on delivering complex construction projects involving large oil and gas floating production units V Center brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to his work, affording him a critical perspective on the integral factors. Beyond the design, procurement and management are large construction contracts is particularly passionate about forging a strong alignment between in house construction and operation teams, and establishing productive and collaborative relationship with all project stakeholders to achieve the best possible outcome. All right, and welcome to navigate the major programs, a new episode today with the center kuliah. Are you doing the center? Hi, Riccardo,

Vicente Cunha01:47

I'm doing great. And thanks for having me. It's a great honor to participate in Afghani measure program.

Riccardo Cosentino  01:52

It's my pleasure. And thank you for agreeing to meet with me today. Today we're going to talk about a very interesting topic that you are quite familiar with, which is early completion payments as a mechanism to incentivize collaboration in major programs. Can you tell us about this topic? And why are we exploring this topic today?

Vicente Cunha02:12

Yeah, I actually did a dissertation about that, in my master's degree in Oxford for in mega projects, the idea is to try to understand if you include one early delivery incentive in a contract, if that would make the performance of the contract to go any better than than what we actually see. And so the paper talks about long run and complex construction projects. It's not really not about like paving a few miles of an existing freeway over the next six months. Not that paving a freeway isn't hard worker cannot go wrong. But we're looking for projects with a higher degree of innovation, higher likelihood of stakeholders conflict, longer duration, expositions, uncertainty, and so on. So if you look at the traditional lump sum, fixed price, EPC contract and where contractors would compete for the lowest price to deliver a fixed scope, the dissertation starts from there. And the idea that if you have a higher degree of owner and contractor collaboration, it would have a better outcome for the project, we try to figure out that the incentive itself would booster that collaboration. The idea would be something like, let's say we have a conflict there. And I decide not to pursue what I think it's right. Because I'm looking for something else. In the end, that would be like the bonus for early delivery. That's the idea of the dissertation.

Riccardo Cosentino  03:34

Interesting. Maybe for the people following us for the first time, what's your background? What What inspired you to look at this particular topic,

Vicente Cunha03:43

I've been working in high complex, long run projects for for a while for like the last 15 years. So I work with shipbuilding, construction, oil and gas platforms. And what I found is that it's really hard to keep a project on track, my experience is about like a five year running project. And over time, we face so many difficulties that at some point, we are not talking about the target date anymore, and cost escalates and everything that's there in the literature. And it's very common in many projects. So I start thinking, what is wrong there? And how can we actually make sure that both owner and contractor are looking at the same picture and trying to do their best effort. And at some point, we had a great opportunity, stopping for a while before the project that I'm working now. And we put a group to study it and see what can we do better for for the next contract for the next project. And we came with some of the things we're going to talk about today. It's just all there in our new contract, and we are trying to figure out how to get better. And one of the thing is, is putting their incentive for early delivery. And then that's just the true question that came from my my work. Is it working or not? Is that the way to get a better outcome? I still don't have the answer in my actual works. It's just running out the incentive Is there and I can tell yet how the end of the story on my personal work is going to be. So I decided to jump ahead and try to figure out in th...