Navigating Major Programmes

In episode five of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo sits down with Shormila Chatterjee, Acting Director at Government of Canada Infrastructure on the high-speed rail project. With 14 years of Canada-wide expertise in large-scale public private partnership (PPP) projects, Shormila has led various aspects of several high profile P3 pursuits and design engineering projects in Canada. She also actively contributes to Women in Infrastructure Network's Ottawa Chapter and serves as a board member of PAL Ottawa. In today’s conversation, Riccardo and Shormila go beyond the resume to speak about the adversity (and highlights) of Shormila’s career in infrastructure, including meeting ageism and gender bias at the decision making tables.  

Key Takeaways:

• Why diverse voices in infrastructure are required to better serve the communities major programmes are designed for
• How to navigating explicit acts of gender bias and Shormila’s experience of her competency being questioned based on assumptions over education/experience
• Avoiding analysis paralysis and finding your voice in moments of uncertainty
• How motherhood and personal life interconnects with a career in infrastructure
• Why projects are people and how adoption of behaviour will propel the industry forward

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Shormila Chatterjee on LinkedIn
• Use this link to find advice, guidance, and sponsorship at the Women's Infrastructure Network (WIN) Canada website
• WIN on LinkedIn

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino  00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino I bring over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's a business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see what the conversation takes us. Shormila Chatterjee, the acting director of infrastructure Canada, is an ally accomplished infrastructure professional with 14 years of experience in both the public and private sectors focused on social and public infrastructure is evident in our work on the high frequency rail project, a major initiative in Canada. Prior to her current role, she served as primary contact for prominent clients like the City of Ottawa, and Public Services and Procurement Canada, while at SNC Lavalin Shormila. The ability to establish strong relations with public sector counterparts enabled her to effectively address challenges throughout the project lifecycle achieving favorable outcomes. In addition to a professional achievements Shormila actively contributes to the woman and infrastructure network Ottawa chapter, and serves as a board member of the Powell Ottawa. Air involvement with this organization reflects our dedication to supporting undeserved communities, particularly senior arts workers. In other words, show millas commitment to delivery and inclusivity is evident in our effort to create equal opportunities and cultivate inclusive work environments. Hello, welcome to another episode of navigating major programs. Today I'm here with Shormila. Are you doing? Sure Mila,

Shormila Chatterjee  02:15

I'm good. Thanks, Ricardo. How are you?

Riccardo Cosentino  02:17

Not too bad, not too bad. Thank you for joining us. It's a pleasure to have you on the program. You and I go back a few years. So why don't we get right into it? You know, I think the audience has heard your bio. So why don't we just start with what what is your current role in infrastructure?

Shormila Chatterjee  02:36

Sure. Thanks. Thanks so much for having me Riccardo. So I'm currently actually currently right now I'm on maternity leave. But I'm essentially an acting director at infrastructure Canada on the high frequency rail project, which he had mentioned is one of the largest infrastructure projects in Canada, the in that's going to connect Toronto to Quebec City in the in the next couple of years, which is really exciting.

Riccardo Cosentino  02:59

I guess it's on point. I mean, this is a podcast about women in infrastructure. So I think it's really important that you're actually on maternity leave. These are the things that happen. So I'm glad that I'm actually having a guest that is taking taking a leave of absence in order to take care of a newborn baby think it's very important. So how did you first get into the industry?

Shormila Chatterjee  03:24

Well, I think like most people, it's by accident. But I started in mining and metallurgy at SNC levelin, when I'm fresh out of school, and the infrastructure division was based out of Vancouver at the time, and they wanted to set up a Toronto office to respond to, you know, the creation of Metrolinx and restructure Ontario, kind of this new Ontario business. So they created a group and we're just looking for people and I happen to hear about it and wanted to join because it sounded really interesting. The projects that I was working on, while interesting, were in very remote places. So I was looking for something that had this mix of being able to apply my technical skills, but also be in more urban environments. So then I was one of the first few employees and the infrastructure that was called transportation at the time, but the infrastructure group in essence is the Toronto office.

Riccardo Cosentino  04:16

And was it always your plan to build a career in infrastructure? Or did you stumble upon it?

Shormila Chatterjee  04:22

Yeah, so I sort of stumbled upon it I think for me i i did civil engineering in school and that's quite a wide like you I guess ready Riccardo but like it's a wide pretty wide of things that you can do with civil engineering. I wanted to actually eventually move back to India because I had went to high school in India and moved back to India and and work there but then I had stumbled on infrastructure here in Canada and ended up wanting to stay and such an active industry. So I Yeah, sort of fell in love with it by accident.

Riccardo Cosentino  04:54

You fell in love during your undergraduate degree or as you started your career. And

Shormila Chatterjee  05:02

yeah, I would say as I sit here, what what I love, I think of engineering and has, which is what I continue to love in my job now is that engineering and also infrastructure and particularly projects is a team sport. And for me, that's what gets me up in the morning. Like, I'm not a sort of dog eat dog type of person. Like, I like that...

In this very special episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo is joined by Divya Shah, a prominent name in Canada's infrastructure network through her work as a project finance professional focusing on investment and infrastructure—and Riccardo’s wife. In their conversation, Riccardo and Divya discuss her unique perspective on the intersection of private and public sectors for effective decision making and leadership, along with her experience as a woman in infrastructure as a whole.

Key Takeaways:

• Finding the sweet intersection of financing and infrastructure
• How to manage direct and indirect stakeholder expectations
• Lessons learned from navigating project finance during the credit crisis
• Dealing with gender bias during conflict

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community: 

• Riccardo Cosentino on LinkedIn
• Divya Shah on LinkedIn

Use this link to find advice, guidance and sponsorship at the Women In Infrastructure website

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 

0:05  You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino I bring over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's a business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion-dollar projects. Let's see where the conversation takes us. Over the last 15 years Divya Shah has built a name for herself in Canada's infrastructure network through her work as a project finance professional focusing on investment in infrastructure. Her extensive resume includes a wide variety of capital markets roles such as public private partnerships, refinancing, mergers and acquisition, real estate investment, private lending and credit. In today's episodes of navigating major programs, Riccardo Cosentino and Divya discuss a unique perspective on the intersection of private and public sectors for effective decision-making leadership along with your experience as a woman in infrastructure as a whole. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today on navigating major programs. I'm here today with Divya Shah, how're you doing?

Divya Shah  

1:37  I'm doing really great. Thank you for having me here. Riccardo

Riccardo Cosentino

1:41  it's great to have you here. Great to have you here. Why don't we jump right into it? And why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? What is your current role in infrastructure?

Divya Shah  

1:51  That's a great place to start. So as of today, I am with the Canada infrastructure bank. I'm a managing director here. I've been at the bank for now five years, and I head up all our initiatives from an investment perspective in the trade and transportation sector. This includes everything from investing and structuring investments in ports, airports. It includes passenger rail, intercity rail, it includes freight, so short line and mainline, essentially anything that helps moves goods and people, between cities and between countries to help improve GDP, improve operational efficiencies, and allows for enabling of movement and economic growth.

Riccardo Cosentino

2:38  sounds really interesting. How do you how do you get into it? How do you do? Actually, let's go backwards? How did you get into infrastructure first?

Divya Shah  

2:47  Oh, that's such a long story. I would say, from a factual perspective, I got into infrastructure almost 15 to 17 years ago in 2006. And opportunity came by my desk to interview for a analyst position at a newly formed company called Infrastructure Ontario. I was rushed leave out from an MBA school and was really not interested or actually didn't even know about the world of infrastructure. Infrastructure construction building was so far from my world of finance that I laughed when that opportunity came to my desk. And I will say, I'm glad I went for the interview, I had to be coaxed to go for the interview. But I'm so glad I went for the interview, because my life has not been the same. And so I joined this newly formed provincial agency called Infrastructure Ontario, it was set up to procure large infrastructure projects, primarily hospitals in those days, for the province of Ontario. It was not a policy shop, it was an execution shop. And the whole idea there was they were looking at this new model called public private partnerships, which was, you know, created out in the UK. And there was a little bit of dabbling out in BC, but it was never done in Ontario. And they were looking for finance professionals. They were looking for technical professionals. And we all came together. I think we were I was a part of the first 100 people at the company. And it was fascinating because it was not just about infrastructure. It was about creating something new, not from scratch, but made in Ontario from scratch, and it was a really a lot of fun.

Riccardo Cosentino

4:35  I guess that's where you and I met. 

Divya Shah  

4:37  That's where we met. You know, I mean, you know, didn't think I would find a husband here in this industry, but c'est la vie 15 years later,

Riccardo Cosentino

4:46  but okay, so it sounds like it was a little bit of a surprise for you to end up in infrastructure. What was your career aspiration before you bumped into infrastructure and area? What was it What was your dream job? What kind of career were you pursuing?

Divya Shah  

5:03  Well, like I think, with anyone who goes through MBA school, bright eyed, my aspiration was to be a banker, banker doing pure finance, like raising money for a corporation, and, you know, mergers and acquisitions. And those were the things that you learned about an MBA school and, and this is the part that I find really interesting, right? Going to MBA school, nobody mentioned the words project finance, real property, public private partnerships, this is not even a spectrum of things that you talk about. So, yeah, I wanted to be a banker and not in infrastructure, who is I think, for me, the definition of infrastructure was lame it was roads and things that, you know, people with that who wanted to be the hybrid of finance did not even dabble in, so, yeah, quite, quite far from where I am today.

Riccardo Cosentino

6:01  Okay, so if that was your expectation, there was uhm, pressure of infrastructure. What was a surprise you the most about the industry?

Divya Shah  

6:09  You know, what, how much I love it. I will say that, for me, looking back, I don't think I would want to do anything else. And what's really interesting in the job that I do right now, is I do investment. I'm actually a banker, but I am a banker for infrastructure investments. So way I'm doing what I really wanted, but in a very different industry. So going back to your questio...

In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo sits down with Hannelie Stockenstrom, Senior Vice President Legal Major Projects & Canada Legal Centre Of Excellence at SNC Lavalin, for a in-depth conversation on her experience as a woman in in the male-dominated industry and her hope for the industry as a whole. 

Key Takeaways: 

• Why diverse participants in infrastructure is the only way forward to solve problems effectively
• How focusing on education in Third World countries can catapult the industry’s sustainability efforts in First World countries
• The art of networking your dream career

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community via LinkedIn: 

• Riccardo Cosentino
• Hannelie Stockenstrom

Transcript:

Riccardo Cosentino 00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations

happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm

your host Riccardo Cosentino I bring over 20 years of major product management experience. Most

recently, I graduated from Oxford University's a business school, which shook my belief when it comes

to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the

industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the

critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see where the

conversation takes us. And Ally stockin strong is an accomplished legal professional, and currently

holds the position of Senior Vice President of legal for SNC Lavell ins major project division, and she's

also a member of Canada Legal Center of Excellence of SNC Lavell. And in that capacity Annalee

provides senior management and project team with advice in a wide variety of legal matters, including

claims dispute and transactions. Anna Lee has extensive experience in major projects, national and

international joint ventures, p3, and alternative contracting, and elite monitors and advises management

and operations on legal trends and changes in the law and design implement a compliance program for

managing risk. And the Lee was chair of SNC Lavell in Canada Edna committee from 2020 to 2022.

And she's currently a member and pasture or the steering committee. Hello, welcome back to

navigating major programs. And welcome back to the miniseries of building bridges. Today, I'm here

with Hannelie, I've had the pleasure of working with Hannelie over the last 13 years, while SNC Lavell.

And I'm really excited to ever hear and to ever review on the topic that we covered in building bridges

with money Anna Lee, how you doing today?

Hannelie Stokenstrom 02:14

Hi, Riccardo. I'm great. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:18

It's my pleasure. My pleasure. We talked about ED&I, we talked about diversity. And so I felt you be a

great guest on this podcast, because I think you're a bit passionate about the topic.

Hannelie Stokenstrom 02:29

I think that I am overly passionate sometimes about the topic, Ricardo, and when you get me talking

about it, I can't stop talking about it as you know.

Riccardo Cosentino 02:38

That's great. That's great. So why don't we why don't we just jump into the conversation? This is gonna

be a conversation. And you know, let's maybe just introduce yourself a little bit, we heard your bio, but

you know, what, what's your current role in infrastructure.

Hannelie Stokenstrom 02:54

I'm on the services side, I'm a lawyer, as you know, from my bio, and being with SNC Lavalin, and for

the last 15 years, and always as a lawyer, and currently lead the major projects legal team globally, and

the Canadian regional legal team. And what we do is, we involved on the project side, we are involved

from the RFQ stage, through the RFP, through the negotiation of the contracts, the putting into being

the sub contracts, the joint venture agreement, and then once we get awarded the project, we are the

legal resource and support during the execution of the project. And then, of course, if there are issues

disputes during the course of the project, or subsequently, as the project lawyers, we remain involved in

trying to resolve these disputes. But we are not the litigators, we actually have different lawyers who

deal with the actual dispute resolution. So we project lawyers in the true sense of the word.

Riccardo Cosentino 04:10

Okay, so you're covering, as you said, the service service component or the infrastructure industry,

which is the legal services to these two projects and major projects? Did you as a lawyer, were you

always an infrastructure lawyer, or do you start in a different practice?

Hannelie Stokenstrom 04:28

Now I joined the law firm, both in South Africa where I qualified. And when I emigrated to Canada, I

again went to a law firm, where I've always been involved in construction law, and at least the last 20

years I've been involved in construction law, but a very wide variety on the construction law side. And

the early part of my career. I was actually working in litigation, but I quickly learned that I am Much

more passionate about the front end work and making the deals happen and getting the projects built

rather than dealing with disputes.

Riccardo Cosentino 05:11

And so when you join the law firm, or you're always envisioning that stream, or you just joined

programs, and you ended up following a construction stream, or were you deliberately looking for

Construction Law,

Hannelie Stokenstrom 05:26

I've always been passionate about construction and infrastructure. I love breaches, I think they are

some of the most beautiful things in the world. And coming from South Africa, and having grown up in

Africa, and seen third world countries, and the effect that either good infrastructure or bad infrastructure

have on societies, infrastructure has always been a passion to me. But as I mentioned to you, I love

bridges. And I originally thought that I was going to be an engineer. But I realized that it's not going to

be my my future. So I actually did study a year of engineering at university. And then after that, I

transferred to a commerce degree and after my Commerce degree transferred to low, so I have a little

bit of that passion for engineering in me, but ultimately decided it will be on the service side as opposed

to be on the engineering side.

Riccardo Cosentino 06:29

That's fascinating. I've known you for 13 years, and I'm just learning about this passion of yours already

comes through, but it's good to actually pinpoint that now. It comes from the day to day. So obviously,

you knew you wanted to do so you knew you would end up in this something similar to this industry in

this industry? And and so once you join this industry is anything What was the thing that surprised you

the most about the industry?

Hannelie Stokenstrom 06:57

I think some of the work from ...

Is technology the answer to delivering major programmes on time? Is the infrastructure industry moving towards equality? In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo and Corail Bourrelier Fabiani discuss all this and more. Corail is an accomplished programme manager with expertise in delivering ambitious urban and cultural programmes with budgets ranging from £2 million to £5 million for clients such as the City of London Corporation, City of Paris, Sellar, and Fondation Louis Vuitton. Her experience includes managing the Paddington Square Public Art Programme and the Shard Quarter Public Art Programme in London, as well as leading the Sculpture in the City programme for four editions. 

Riccardo and Corail catch up after both recently graduating from Oxford’s Saïd Business School before diving into Corail’s fascinating career and her invaluable insights to improving inclusivity in infrastructure.

Key Takeaways: 

• The surprising factors of navigating internal and external stakeholders
• Recognizing the importance of mentors, sponsors and allyship in male-dominated industries
• How diversity in the leadership teams could even out the respect playing field
• Why rebranding the industry will inspire more women choose a career in infrastructure

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community via LinkedIn: 

• Riccardo Cosentino
• Corail Bourrelier Fabiani

Transcription:
Riccardo Cosentino  00:05

You're listening to navigate major problems, the podcast that aims to elevate the conversations happening in the infrastructure industry and inspire you to have a more efficient approach within it. I'm your host Riccardo Cosentino I bring over 20 years of major product management experience. Most recently, I graduated from Oxford University's a business school, which shook my belief when it comes to navigating major problems. Now it's time to shake yours. Join me in each episode as a press the industry experts about the complexity of major program management, emerging digital trends and the critical leadership required to approach these multibillion dollar projects. Let's see what the conversation takes us. Corail Bourrellier Fabiani is an accomplished Program Manager with expertise in delivering ambitious, urban and cultural programs for high profile public and private organizations. With a collaborative and problem solving approach she pushes the boundaries of what is achievable within complex environments. Corail has delivered projects with budget ranging from 2 to 5 million pounds for clients such as the City of London cooperation city of Paris, Cellar and fundacion Louis Vitton her experience includes managing the Paddington score public health program and the Shard quarter public health program in London as well as leading the Sculpture in the City problem for for additions in summary corroborate the bill Fabiani is a highly skilled and experienced Program Manager with an exceptional track record of delivering successful outcomes for her clients with a collaborative and problem solving approach. She's a valuable asset to any team working on ambition and cultural problems.  Hello, welcome to navigating major projects. I'm here today with Correll I met Correll in my university degree at Oxford. And how are you doing today, Corail?

Corail  02:05

Hi, Riccardo. I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

Riccardo Cosentino  02:08

It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. As we discussed before, this podcast is about women representation in infrastructure. And I wanted to do to corral because I've learned through my years at Oxford, as she has a strong opinion about women in infrastructure. So I felt it was perfect guest for this podcast. So why don't we get right into the questions, Coraill? Let's start with a simple one. What what is your current role in infrastructure or contraction?

Corail  02:42

So I manage the delivery of large scale public art programs for both public and private organizations. And I work on fitout projects for museums.

Riccardo Cosentino  02:55

All sounds really interesting. How do you get into that and to begin with,

Corail  03:00

so basically, I I've always had abilities in the scientific subjects as a kid, like, I remember, I was like, maybe seven and they weren't like a mathematic competition in my region in France, etc. So being good in maths or in science as a child and coming from like a family of engineers, basically, I, I didn't really have a choice in my career. At 17, I told my mom, I wanted to become a makeup artist. And she said, No, she was like, there is no way first you you get a master's in engineering, you get degrees, and then you see what you want to do. And you can do whatever. And that was kind of like the idea that this this field would open doors to anything else. And so later, I found the university that was offering a type of engineering that was called urban systems engineering, which is like kind of a mix of civil engineering, structural engineering, urban design, all this kind of different elements, which felt kind of a bit more creative, you know, then just like something like more traditional. So I went for that. And out of this, I started working with people that were doing art with engineers and with architects and so it was fascinating. I worked with a really interesting man who was both an architect and an engineer, and with whom we basically developed really complex pieces of art by helping the artist design them, helping them build a fire in the fabricators to build them but also communicate with you know, the cities or the planners etc. To put them in the public space and re landscaped the areas etc, to increase integrate new pieces of art. So So that's how kind of I got into that very specifics field of the industry was your chance,

Riccardo Cosentino  05:08

So you are the crossroad of engineering and art. Is that a fair description?

Corail  05:14

Yes, absolutely. I think that's, that's really it. And that's just out of being interested in both and never being able to choose. And going with Well, I was still like, if you go into this, this engineering, infrastructure construction field, then you can also do what you're passionate about, which was art. And that's also why I moved to London, because I thought London was the place to be if you were interested in art. And that's how I started working for the city of London, but also private developers in London.

Riccardo Cosentino  05:50

Very good. So I, by the sounds of it, the next question might be a little redundant, but was it a surprise for you to build a career in infrastructure?

Corail  05:59

So it wasn't so much a surprise, I feel, I feel like it just kind of happens, you know, it's a was not also what's interesting isn't in our careers, or in our work, planning, or organizing is very important. I feel like in my personal career choices, it has been more like, you know, just following my passion, following my heart at the time or following advice I was receiving from families and friends. And so it was, it wasn't a planned, but ...

In this episode of Navigating Major Programmes, Riccardo sits down with Mariska Pinto, who has spent the last decade successfully navigating the male-dominated infrastructure industry. With a mechanical engineering background from McGill University, Marishka now leverages her technical and commercial background as she works cross-functionally amongst various teams at Crosslinx Constructors as a Systems Claims Manager for Eglinton Crosstown LRT. 

In this conversation, Riccardo gives Mariska the floor as he looks for insight to a topic he will never fully understand—being the only woman in the room. This conversation aims to build bridges that inspire allyship and encourage women to pursue a career in infrastructure. 

Key Takeaways: 

• How to recognize and confront your imposter syndrome
• Navigating microaggressions and implicit bias in the workplace
• Finding allyship within a male-dominated industry

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

The conversation doesn’t stop here—connect and converse with our community via LinkedIn: 

• Riccardo Cosentino
• Mariska Pinto

Music: "A New Tomorrow" by Chordial Music. Licensed through PremiumBeat.

Why are 80% of major programmes delivered late and over budget? How can AI truly transform infrastructure or will it simply accelerate the same problems we already have? And what does it all mean for the people responsible for delivering multi-billion-dollar projects?

Welcome to Navigating Major Programmes, the elevated conversation surrounding infrastructure and major programme management. This podcast takes a deep dive into the world of major programmes: how they are designed, governed, procured, delivered, financed, challenged, and led.

Hosted by Riccardo Cosentino, Shormila Chatterjee, and Evgenia Jilina, they'll press the industry's experts on the complexity of programme management, emerging digital trends, and the critical leadership skills required to approach these multi-billion-dollar projects. In each episode, they explore the issues that decide whether major programmes succeed or struggle: programme design, delivery models, governance, risk management, stakeholder engagement, procurement, and the coordination of many parties moving under pressure. They also examine the unique nature of major programmes as temporary organizations, where complexity is not an exception. It is the operating environment.

Listen to Navigating Major Programmes, the podcast elevating the conversation surrounding major programmes. The stakes are high, the industry is changing, and the conversation cannot wait. Let's see where it takes us.

Continue the conversation with our community on LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/company/navigating-major-programmes