Author Neil Gaiman built a career on dark, psychological stories like The Sandman and Coraline. Now he and his ex-wife, musician Amanda Palmer, are facing disturbing accusations that echo the themes in his work. Journalist Lila Shapiro joins Vanessa and Natalie to discuss her viral Vulture article, “There Is No Safe Word,” and the blurred the lines between art, intimacy, and control.

Read Vanessa’s book, Blurred Lines: Sex, Power and Consent on Campus, and check out Natalie on Instagram at @natrobe

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