This week Grant and Zoe talk with Charles Dunst about his new book "Defeating The Dictators: How Democracy Can Prevail In The Age Of The Strongman". Can democracies actually learn something from dictators? Are people more interested in economic well being or social ax-grinding? Find out during this exciting conversation.

 In our final segment Charles recommends The Cairo Trilogy: Palace Walk, Palace of Desire, Sugar Street, Grant rants about the breakability of stress balls, and Zoe discusses the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.

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