On Humans

Is war natural for humans? This question launched episode 8 of this podcast. In that episode, anthropologist Douglas Fry argued that war is a new phenomenon. Yes, history is full of wars. But war arrived on stage only 10-15 thousand years ago – or in many areas, much later. And while war is undoubtedly part of human capacity, it is hardly our hardwired inclination. 

But what about chimpanzees, I asked him. They wage war. And according to many chimpanzee experts, they gang up on strangers whenever they can do so with ease. Does this not show that humans, too, are biologically programmed for feuding, raiding, and eventually, warfare? Is it not the case, then, that peace is a social invention – war the biological norm?

No, Fry answered. But to understand why, he told me, I must wait until his colleague releases a book on the topic. 

That book is out now. Chimpanzee, War, and History is written by Fry’s long-time collaborator, R. Brian Ferguson. It goes through every chimpanzee killing on the record. And it argues that chimpanzee violence has been deeply misunderstood. The book was detailed, dense, and important. It was an eye-opener for me. So it was a pleasure to have Professor Ferguson come on the show to talk about it. 

We touched upon questions such as:

1. How often do chimpanzees kill others? 
2. Why do chimpanzees kill others (when they do)?
3. Is human impact the only reason for chimpanzee wars?
4. Do chimpanzees and humans enjoy violence?
5. Does war go forever back? 

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Scholars mentioned 

Albert Einstein / Sigmund Freud / Michael Ghiglieri / Richard Wrangham; episode 21 / Brian Burkhalter / Leslie Sponsel / Douglas Fry; episode 8

Chimpanzee groups

Kahama and Kasakela group (in Gombe) 

K- and M-groups (in Mahale)

Ngogo (in Kibale)

Other links 

Video of a chimpanzee raid (narrated by David Attenborough)

Essays, articles, and other materials by R. Brian Ferguson are available on his personal website

What does war do to the human psyche? It can traumatise. It can cause grief. It can normalise violence and make demons out of the enemy. But difficult times can also elevate our care and compassion. And while much of the new solidarity is focused on those on “our side”, the helping hand does not always stop at the border.

Or so argues anthropologist Greta Uehling, the author of Everyday War (2023). Building on over 150 interviews with Ukrainian civilians and ex-combatants, Uehling’s work brings depth and nuance to the topic - a topic often simplified by naive contrasts between peaceful care and brutal violence. Profoundly optimistic in ways, Uehling is still far from romanticising war. Rather, she paints a humane picture of people finding meaning from the challenges of violent conflict.

Dr Uehling sat down with Ilari to discuss various stories and lessons from Ukraine. As always, the episode finishes with Dr Uehling's own views on humanity.

Mentioned scholars

Yuval Noah Harari / Paul Ricoeur / Hans-Georg Gadamer

Names of the Ukrainian respondents have been altered to protect their identity

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SUPPORT THE SHOW

Please consider becoming a supporter of On Humans. Even small monthly donations can make a huge impact on the long-term sustainability of the program.

Visit: ⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/OnHumans ⁠⁠⁠

Get in touch: [email protected]

Humans are odd in many ways. But perhaps the oddest of our features is our upright posture. We walk on two legs. And we are the only mammal to do so. 

So why do we walk upright? And why does it matter? 

Jeremy DeSilva is a fossil expert and a professor of paleoanthropology at Dartmouth College. He is also the author of a remarkable book, aptly titled First Steps: How Upright Walking Made Us Human

[An audio version of First Steps is now offered to you for free from Audible! See links and eligibility below.]

DeSilva’s treatment of the subject is sweeping: while tracing the journey of human posture, he draws remarkable links between bipedalism and many facets of the human condition from difficult births to complex language and from lower back pains to the beauty of friendships.

In this episode, we talk about questions such as:

1. What Darwin got right and wrong about the role of walking in human evolution
2. When and why did we start walking upright?
3. Why the common picture of human evolution is wrong - and what would be a better picture
4. Why walking makes us fragileHow our ancestors survived bone fractures - and this is a big deal
5. Why human birth is so difficult
6. Why walking is so good for us: introducing the “myokines”
7. What studying the human journey has taught DeSilva about our species

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Please consider becoming a supporter of On Humans. Even small monthly donations can make a huge impact on the long-term sustainability of the program.

Visit: ⁠Patreon.com/OnHumans ⁠

Get in touch: [email protected]

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Names mentioned

Charles Darwin / Ian Tattersall / Donal Johanson / Mary Leakey / Sherwood Washburn / Richard Wrangham (ep 21) / Kristen Hawkes (ep 6) / Holly Dunsworth / Daniel Lieberman 

Mentioned hominin species

Sahelanthropus / Ardipithecus / Auroren tugenensis / Austrolepithecus (e.g. Lucy) / Homo habilis / Homo erectus / Homo sapiens

Read more

Check out the books below to dig deeper! You can now get one of them for free as an Audible audiobook.*

1. First Steps by Jeremy DeSilva
2. Ancient Bones by Madelaine Böhme
3. The Improbable Primate by Clive Finlayson

To get your free book, set up an Audible account via the following link

⁠https://amzn.to/3qMMshw⁠

You gain one free credit which you can use for a book of your choice.

* Offer is not available for current Audible customers.

Here is a common view on human development: In the beginning, children can only think about themselves. Slowly, they learn to care about others — or more cynically, they learn to pretend that they care about others. Variations of this view have been promoted by thinkers from Sigmund Freud to Richard Dawkins. This view has then been used to make predictable conclusions about ethics: human morality is either a social construct —  fearfully internalized — or a clever tactic, used by selfish individuals to reap the benefits of teamwork. 

But what evidence do we actually have about young children’s motivations? Do they genuinely not care about others? 

To discuss these questions I have Dr Amrisha Vaish on the show. Vaish is a developmental psychologist at the University of Virginia, famous for her work on pro-social motivations in young children. We discuss issues such as:

1. How spontaneous is it for young children to help others?
2. Why do children help others? Do they want praise or do they genuinely care about others?
3. How early does empathy emerge? 
4. Different forms of empathy; or the subtle difference between matching others’ emotions versus caring about others’ emotios?
5. What should parents do to help children grow to be more caring?
6. Neurodiversity and empathy in autism
7. Is anyone born a psychopath? 
8. Where does mundane cruelty (e.g. to animals) come from?
9. The difference between sympathy and guilt; and why does the latter emerge later?
10. What decades of studying young children has taught Vaish about our species

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Please consider becoming a supporter of On Humans. Even small monthly donations can make a huge impact on the long-term sustainability of the program.

Visit: Patreon.com/OnHumans

Get in touch: [email protected]

_________

Scholars mentioned

Sigmund Freud / Felix Waerneken / Michael Tomasello / Robert Hepach / Joan Grusec / Maayan Davidov / Daniel Batson / Audun Dahl / Celia Brownell / Martin Hoffman / Jan Engelman / Vikram Jaswhwal / Paul Bloom / Peter Singer / Richard Dawkins / Jean Decety / Scott Barry Kaufman / Simon Baron-Cohen 

Books mentioned

Altruism in Humans (by Daniel Batson) / The Last Manchu (Memoirs of Emperor Puyi) / Transcend (by Scott Barry Kaufman)

Read more

The books below are curated for those interested in learning more about the topic. Listeners of the On Humans podcast are eligible to get one of them for free as an Audible audiobook.*

1. Becoming Human (Michael Tomasello)
2. Just Babies (Paul Bloom)

To get your free book, set up an Audible account via the following link.

https://amzn.to/3qMMshw

You gain one free credit which you can use for a book of your choice.

* Offer is not available for current Audible customers. However, current customers can access Becoming Humans for free via Audible's PLUS catalogue.

What would a Neanderthal think about our species? What about a chimpanzee? When compared to our cousins, how friendly or violent are we?

Richard Wrangham is a chimpanzee expert and professor of human biology at Harvard. He is one of the most important evolutionary anthropologists alive and truly one of the dream guests for this podcast. It was a great honour to have him on the show. We discuss topics such as:

1. What makes studying chimpanzees interesting
2. Why you could not put 100 chimps on a plane (and not see a fight)
3. What about bonobos?
4. The goodness paradox: or why Wrangham thinks that humans are both a remarkably friendly and a relatively violent ape.
5. Are humans a child-like ape?
6. Why human skulls resemble dogs, not wolves
7. What five decades of research have taught Wrangham about humans

Mentioned scholars

Jane Goodall / Takayoshi Kano / Martin Surbeck / Michael Wilson / Kim Hill / Victoria Burbank / Brian Hare / Dimitri Belyaev / Lyudmila Trut / Adam Wilkins / Tecumseh Fitch / Stephen Jay Gould / Michael Tomasello / Christopher Boehm / Douglas P. Fry / Amar Sarkar

Mentioned papers

• Neural crest cells
• Neurobiology of aggression

Further reading and a FREE audiobook offer:

Below is a list of further book recommendations written for the general audience. You might be eligible to get one of these books for free from Audible. 

• Reason For Hope (by Jane Goodall). A mix of a scientific memoir and a philosophical inquiry. Read beautifully by the author.
• How to Tame a Fox (by Lyudmila Trut and Lee Dugatkin). Story of the remarkable experiment on domesticated foxes.
• The Chimpanzee Whisperer (by David Blissett and Stany Nyandwi). The story of a man who learns to pant-hoot with chimpanzees.

How to get your free audiobook from Audible (if eligible, see terms & conditions behind the link):

1. Start an Audible account or re-activate your old one using this link: https://amzn.to/3qMMshw.
2. Once your account is live, you will get one free credit. You can use this on the book of your choice. 

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GET IN TOUCH

Email: ilari@onhumansorg

A suggestive timeline of human evolution (estimated years ago) 

• c. 6 million years ago: Last common ancestor of humans, chimpanzees and bonobos 
• 4 — 3 million years ago: Australopithecines
• 2.5 — 1.5 million years ago: Homo habilis (arguably the first human)
• 2 million — 100 thousand years ago: Homo erectus (first “proper” human according to Wrangham)
• 600 thousand — 300 thousand: Homo heidelbergensis (evolving to Neanderthals and us)
• 300 thousand — today : Homo sapiens 

Season 2 is kicking off on the 17th of June! In the meanwhile, we have time for a couple of more highlights. This one is from episode 18 with economic historian Brad Delong, author of Slouching Towards Utopia.

In this highlight from season 1, Ilari talks with economist Oded Galor about how factors such as soil quality can explain cultural differences, such as variations in the level of patriarchy. For the full episode and show notes, see episode 13. For the first episode with Galor, see episode 12.

Season 2 is out in June! Do consider subscribing to stay updated. 

In this highlight from season 1, Helen Fisher discusses her research with couples deeply in love after 20 years of marriage. The clip also includes Fisher's 7 science-based tips for fostering romantic relationships.

In this highlight from season 1, Kristen Hawkes presents an intriguing hypothesis about the human past. According to Hawkes, ancient climate changes pushed our ancestors away from the rainforests. On the savannas, teamwork was finally rewarded.

For more notes and links, see the original episode 6 (Are Grandmothers the Key to Our Evolutionary Success).