The threats to democracy in the US are building. The response is to call for new laws that first will require changes in the rules of the Senate. If we can get those changes, we should. But what if we can't? What is plan B? How do we avoid locking in changes to our system from which there is no recovery? Will holding Trump and Trumpists accountable for their abuses be any part of that. We discuss with democracy expert Norm Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute, Dr. Kavita Patel of the Brookings Institution and formerly of the Obama White House and Ryan Goodman of NYU Law School and "Just Security." It's a sobering but essential listen.  

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