In this episode of The Defiant Podcast, Camila Russo sits down with Jing Wang to discuss how Optimism is evolving and why the debate over what counts as a “real” Ethereum L2 might be missing the point.

Jing argues that the most important question isn’t whether a chain is an L1, L2, or sidechain.

It’s whether the architecture actually serves users and real-world use cases.

“If it looks like an L1, we’ll build that. If it looks like an L2, we’ll build that.”

In the conversation we cover:

• Why Optimism now sees itself as a network of blockchains (the Superchain)
• The debate around Ethereum L2 decentralization sparked by Vitalik Buterin
• Why institutions are already using decentralized rails
• Why ZK proofs are the future
• And why Jing believes finance inevitably moves on-chain

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