Oral Argument

Oral Argument

By Joe Miller and Christian TurnerSociety & CultureEducationPhilosophy
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Oral Argument episodes

  • Episode 137: Steve Vladeck Pincer Move

    Where federal courts, national security, and subtle but important problems lurk, you’ll find Steve Vladeck explaining things. Steve joins us to talk about a seemingly narrow question of the proper application a statute prohibiting civil-office holding by military officers. The issue, though, could hardly be more far-reaching, asking us to consider the principles of civilian control of the military and military non-control of civil life. Also, a little on the use of “treason” to describe the allegations of the Trump campaign’s collusion with Russian operatives and Flynn’s work for Turkey.

    This show’s links:

    • Steve Vladeck’s faculty profile, academic writing, and blogging on Lawfare
    • The National Security Law Podcast and in particular episode 21: A Military Commissions Deep Dive
    • Steve Vladeck, An Unconventional Test Case for Civilian Control of the Military
    • SCOTUSblog page for Dalmazzi v. United States (containing links to the opinion below and all briefing)
    • Edmond v. United States
    • In re Al-Nashiri
    • Steve Vladeck, The Misbegotten Court of Military Commission Review
    • Christian Turner, Submarine Statutes
    • William Eskridge and John Ferejohn, Super-Statutes
    • Kathleen McInnis, Statutory Restrictions on the Position of Secretary of Defense: Issues for Congress (an excellent and highly readable Congressional Research Service report on civilian control of the military and civil-military relations)
    • Steve Vladeck, [Calling it] Treason Doth Never Prosper…
    • Diane Mazur, A More Perfect Military
    • Special Guest: Steve Vladeck.

      1 hr 20 min
    • Episode 136: The Coase of Copyright

      With Zahr Said, we discuss what makes creative works similar and the role of the “reader” in constructing a work’s meaning. Christian derails with a James Bond commercial. But we get back on track and talk about paintings, poems, Star Wars, textualism, and the Big Sick.

      This show’s links:

      • Zahr Said’s faculty profile and writing
      • Zahr Said, A Transactional Theory of the Reader in Copyright Law
      • Joseph Miller, Hoisting Originality
      • About Louise Rosenblatt
      • Oral Argument 132: The Soul of Music (guest Joe Fishman)
      • Joseph Fishman, Music as a Matter of Law
      • Mark A. Lemley, Our Bizarre System for Proving Copyright Infringement
      • Shyamkrishna Balganesh, The Normativity of Copying in Copyright Law
      • Laura Heymann, Reading Together and Apart: Juries, Courts, and Substantial Similarity in Copyright Law
      • Jacob Lawrence, The Studio
      • Rebecca Tushnet, Worth a Thousand Words: The Images of Copyright Law
      • Adrienne Rich, Turbulence
      • The Big Sick
      • Special Guest: Zahr Said.

        1 hr 19 min
      • Episode 135: Alexandria

        Internet, technology, and property scholar James Grimmelmann joins us to discuss, among other things, the fight over the Google Books settlement, modern Libraries of Alexandria, and the nature of the legal academic mission.

        This show’s links:

        • James Grimmelmann’s wesbite (containing links to his scholarship, courses, blog, and more)
        • Cornell Tech
        • James Somers, Torching the Modern-Day Library of Alexandria
        • James Grimmelmann, Future Conduct and the Limits of Class-Action Settlements
        • For many resources on the Google Books case and settlement, visit the site James and his students created: thepublicindex.org
        • Authors Guild v. Google; Authors Guild v. HathiTrust
        • Sony Corp. v. Universal Studios
        • About A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc.
        • Video from the panel discussion at UC Berkeley’s April 2012 Orphan Works and Mass Digitization Conference
        • diybookscanner.org
        • Internet Archive Books
        • Vernor Vinge, Rainbow’s End
        • About shotgun sequencing, the DNA sequencing method used by Celera Genomics to sequence the human genome in 2000
        • James Grimmelmann, Scholars, Teachers, and Servants
        • New York Law School’s In re Books Conference
        • Special Guest: James Grimmelmann.

          1 hr 20 min
        • Episode 134: Crossover

          It’s finally here, the one where we talk with the hosts of the world-famous First Mondays podcast, Ian Samuel and Dan Epps. Topics include physics conundrums, podcasts (05:13), the politics of Supreme Court nominations (27:08), and radically changing the rules governing the Supreme Court’s docket (54:54).

          This show’s links:

          • First Mondays
          • Dan Epps’ faculty profile and writing
          • Ian Samuel’s faculty profile and writing
          • Feynman on mirrors
          • Randall Munroe, The Goddamn Airplane on the Goddamn Treadmill
          • Randall Munroe, xkcd: 28-Hour Day
          • Christian Turner, Podcasts (and somehow this post about Streamers is still online)
          • The Bernie Sanders Show
          • Chris Guthrie and Tracey George, Remaking the United States Supreme Court in the Courts' of Appeals Image
          • Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt; Planned Parenthood v. Casey
          • Nina Martin, The Supreme Court Decision That Made a Mess of Abortion Rights
          • Barry Friedman, The Will of the People
          • Daniel Epps and William Ortman, The Lottery Docket
          • John Duffy, The Federal Circuit in the Shadow of the Solicitor General
          • Washington Energy Co. v. United States
          • Oral Argument 28: A Wonderful Catastrophe (background for Joe’s Erie question)
          • Expression Hair Design v. Schneiderman; Guido Calabresi, Federal and State Courts: Restoring a Workable Balance
          • The First Mondays Patreon page
          • Special Guests: Dan Epps and Ian Samuel.

            1 hr 33 min
          • Episode 133: Too Many Darn Radio Buttons

            By listening to this podcast YOU AGREE to arbitrate all disputes in Florida and to forego class actions and consequential damages. This week: Jim Gibson on boilerplate terms in contracts. What to do with contract terms that aren’t read?

            This show’s links:

            • Jim Gibson’s faculty profile and writing
            • James Gibson, Boilerplate's False Dichotomy
            • Lucian Bebchuk and Richard Posner, One-Sided Contracts in Competitive Consumer Markets
            • Karl Llewellyn, Review: The Standardization of Commercial Contracts in English and Continental Law by O. Prausnitz
            • ProCD v. Zeidenberg
            • Margaret Jane Radin, Boilerplate: The Fine Print, Vanishing Rights, and the Rule of Law
            • Boilerplate: Foundations of Market Contracts, a Michigan Law Review symposium that includes writing by Omri Ben-Shahar, Margaret Jane Radin, Todd Rakoff, Henry Smith, and many others
            • Special Guest: Jim Gibson.

              1 hr 15 min
            • Episode 132: The Soul of Music

              What is music? With IP scholar Joe Fishman, we talk about music to work by, whether being unable to imagine doing anything else is a sign you’re doing the right thing, and, mostly, what in music should be protected by copyright. Is the essence of music just melody? And should copyright aim at any such essence? How does our choice about legal protection affect the kind of music people make - and should we worry about that? Why am I asking so many questions? Will these show notes ever end?

              This show’s links:

              • Joseph Fishman’s faculty profile and writing
              • Joseph Fishman, Music as a Matter of Law
              • About Alban Berg (unsurprising that Joe takes a strident and wrong position against both Christian and guest Joe (writing the show notes has fringe benefits))
              • Lisa Bernstein, Opting out of the Legal System: Extralegal Contractual Relations in the Diamond Industry
              • Justice Nelson’s opinions: Hotchkiss v. Greenwood and Jollie v. Jacques
              • About “rhythm changes” in jazz
              • Joseph Miller, Hoisting Originality
              • Andres Guadamuz, Is It Time to Examine the Concept of Originality in Musical Works? (discussing cases like the “Blurred Lines” case, Williams v. Gaye (now before the Ninth Circuit), as illuminated by Emma Steel, Original Sin: Reconciling Originality in Copyright with Music as an Evolutionary Art Form (unavailable thanks to copyright law))
              • Song Exploder (and the episode on the Moonlight soundtrack)
              • Special Guest: Joseph Fishman.

                1 hr 10 min
              • Episode 131: Because of Sex

                Friend of the show and treasured guest Anthony Kreis returns to talk about important recent developments in legal protection of gay rights. We discuss the recent spate of appellate decisions finding discrimination against gay employees violates the Civil Rights Act, including a remarkable concurrence by Judge Posner. The interesting issue, though, is why.

                This show’s links:

                • Anthony Kreis’s faculty profile, his writing, and his twitter feed
                • Oral Argument 36: Firehose of Equality (Anthony’s last, historic guest appearance on the show)
                • Anthony Kreis, Against Gay Potemkin Villages: Title VII and Sexual Orientation Discrimination
                • Seventh Circuit, Hively v. Ivy Tech Community College (includes the concurrence of Judge Posner that occupies much of our discussion)
                • Second Circuit, Anonymous v. Omnicom Group
                • Eleventh Circuit, Evans v. Georgia Regional Hospital
                • William Eskridge and John Ferejohn, Super-Statutes
                • Special Guest: Anthony Kreis.

                  1 hr 17 min
                • Episode 130: Simian Mentation

                  Joe and Christian discuss submarine statutes, the essence of decisionmaking, and the problems of complexity and institutional fit. And we discuss some viewer mail: on partisan cooperation between levels of government, Joe’s lack of knitting diligence, and supercomputers.

                  This show’s links:

                  • Jessica Bulman-Pozen, Partisan Federalism; Jessica Bulman-Pozen, Unbundling Federalism: Colorado's Legalization of Marijuana and Federalism's Many Forms
                  • Christian Turner, Submarine Statutes
                  • Harlan F. Stone, The Common Law in the United States
                  • Marty Lederman, Why the Strikes Against Syria Probably Violate the U.N. Charter and (Therefore) the U.S. Constitution; Harold Koh, Not Illegal: But Now The Hard Part Begins; Marty Lederman, My Discrete but Important Disagreement with Harold Koh on the Lawfulness of the Strikes on Syria
                  • 1 hr 16 min
                  • Episode 129: All My Cussin'

                    We dig into the mailbag and discuss legal foundations, grammar, the Establishment Clause, LaTex, OralArgCon, and Submarine Statutes, and more. No show notes this week.

                    1 hr 19 min
                  • Episode 128: Federalism-palooza

                    We talk with federalism scholar Jessica Bulman-Pozen about how things get done in an age of partisan polarization. Executive federalism, the negotiated implementation of policy between the executive branch and states, not only leads to state-differentiated refractions of national policy, but, Jessica argues, is the right form of governance in gridlocked times.

                    This show’s links:

                    • Jessica Bulman-Pozen’s faculty profile and writing
                    • Jessica Bulman-Pozen, Unbundling Federalism: Colorado's Legalization of Marijuana and Federalism's Many Forms
                    • Ernest A. Young, Modern-Day Nullification: Marijuana and the Persistence of Federalism in an Age of Overlapping Regulatory Jurisdiction
                    • Jessica Bulman-Pozen, Executive Federalism Comes to America
                    • James M. Cole, DOJ Memorandum Guidance Regarding Marijuana Enforcement
                    • Special Guest: Jessica Bulman-Pozen.

                      1 hr 13 min

                    About Oral Argument

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                    A podcast about law, law school, legal theory, and other nerdy things that interest us.