In this episode of Psyche Podcast, I sit down with Paul J. Leslie to explore the fascinating and controversial figure of Alejandro Jodorowsky—filmmaker, writer, and creator of psychomagic. Together, we unpack how Jodorowsky’s surrealist films, theatrical experiments, and ritualistic interventions might inform psychotherapy today.

Paul and I dive into the tension between theory and creativity in therapy, comparing Jodorowsky’s work with the approaches of Milton Erickson, Bradford Keeney, and other innovators. We discuss the symbolic power of ritual, the role of improvisation in therapy, and why standardized treatment models often fall short in honoring the uniqueness of each client.

Along the way, we reflect on performance, spontaneity, therapeutic alliance, and the risks of imposing ideology over human connection. Whether you’re intrigued by Jodorowsky’s art, curious about creative therapy, or simply interested in how therapists can remain open, playful, and adaptive, this conversation will spark your imagination.