My guest today is Hugo Marynissen. He is an expert in Crisis Governance and Risk Management Co-holding the Chair of Crisis Governance at University of Antwerp.

Our conversation today will address the question of how leaders might structure organizations to better adapt to an uncertain world. He identifies key myths and assumptions that are part of traditional models that simply, do not work in times of crisis.      

He is senior partner at PM•Risk Crisis Change and senior researcher at the University of Antwerp in the Business & Economics, Management department and professor at Antwerp Management School. The focus of his current research is on crisis networks, organizational resilience, normal chaos, and the role of crisis governance as a way to anticipate extreme events.

Bio at PM Risk Crisis Change

LinkedIn

Research Links

Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic

Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic

Mentioned in Episode:

Normal Accidents: Living with High Risk Technologies by Charles Perrow

Video Intro to Episode

03:00 - Definition of crisis governance and the inherent conflict between crisis and governance.

06:00 - Introduction of the concept of normal chaos and the human factor in crisis creation.

09:00 - Hugo's personal background and journey into academia and crisis management.

12:00 - Working with the fire service and the importance of science and academia in crisis management.

15:00 - Cultural shifts within fire services and the need for multiple good leaders rather than a single strong leader.

18:00 - Collaboration among different emergency services and the impact of hierarchical structures. Examples from the Port of Antwerp and crisis management practices during the COVID-19 lockdown.

27:00 - The concept of resilience in crisis management. Differentiating between bouncing back and bouncing forward after a crisis.

30:00 - The role of leadership in fostering resilience within organizations.

33:00 - Effective coordination and integration of autonomous networks in crisis management.

36:00 - Examples from the Houston Port and the Channel Industries Mutual Aid (CIMA).

39:00 - Real-world implications of network collaboration and trust-building.

42:00 - The role of governance in crisis management and decision-making processes.

- Balancing formal structures with implicit interactions and stakeholder influence.

45:00 - The necessity of political courage and long-term vision in governance.

- Peter Drucker's quote on turbulence and the need to adapt our thinking.

“The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.”

51:00 - The tendency to repeat mistakes and the lack of learning from past crises.

- Examples from organizational evaluations and recommendations.

54:00 - Addressing systemic issues rather than individual errors in crisis management.

- The slow process of affecting change and the need for ongoing vigilance.

57:00 - Final thoughts on practical steps for improving crisis management.

A disaster happens where hazards meet human systems.

My guest today shared that quote and much more about what local governments can do to lay the groundwork for a smooth recovery process should the worst-case scenario occur.

We go deep on what can be done before a disaster strikes. We talk about how to expedite the funding process and the unintended consequences when communities do not make the necessary investments before disaster strikes.

Dustin Hinkel works as a consultant at Guidehouse to help state and local governments, schools, nonprofits, find, acquire, spend, and retain grant funding to help them implement their most complex and critical public service projects.

Dustin has an academic background in environmental policy and natural and technological hazards. He began his career in county emergency management but eventually rose to the role of County Executive in Taylor County, Florida before moving into a consultant role with Guidehouse.

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Connect with Dustin Hinkel on LinkedIN

More information on Guidehouse.com (State and Local Governments)

[00:03:00] Dustin's background in government and his education in emergency management. Transition from theoretical knowledge to practical application in emergency management.

[00:06:00] The realization of the importance of funding and fiscal stewardship in disaster management. Challenges in managing budgets during disasters.

[00:09:00] Support from mentors and networks in understanding public sector finance and budgeting. The role of regional associations in Florida's emergency management program.

[00:12:00] The impact of insurance rates on government investment in infrastructure.

Case study: The National Flood Insurance Program and its effects during the Great Recession.

[00:15:00] Steps to expedite funding in the event of a disaster.

Importance of pre-existing relationships and mutual aid agreements.

[00:18:00] The role of industry partners in disaster response and recovery.

Example: Utilizing local resources such as tree haulers and timber professionals.

[00:21:00] Typical questions from governments after a disaster regarding reimbursement.

Categories of expenses eligible for FEMA reimbursement and the importance of documentation.

[00:24:00] Political and administrative challenges in securing disaster declarations and assistance.

Example: Taylor County's experience during Hurricane Hermine.

[00:27:00] The importance of persistence and understanding FEMA processes.

The iterative nature of the public assistance process and interactions with FEMA officials.

[00:30:00] The complexities of local vendor preferences in federal procurement processes.

Balancing community involvement with federal standards for fair and competitive pricing.

[00:33:00] The importance of documenting baseline conditions for projects like beach renourishment and road reconstruction. Ensuring transparency and accountability in federal funding.

[00:36:00] Discussion on the Francis Scott Key Bridge and the role of federal government in local disasters. The importance of local and industry input in rebuilding infrastructure.

[00:39:00] The hypothetical scenario of FEMA funding as a loan rather than a grant.

The potential impact on community investment and infrastructure maintenance.

[00:42:00] Ensuring long-term maintenance of infrastructure built with federal funds.

The importance of a life-cycle approach to investment and maintenance.

[00:45:00] The challenges of maintaining infrastructure and the example of a sports complex.

The need for ongoing investment and planning for future maintenance.

[00:48:00] Skills needed for engaging in complex disaster recovery environments.

The role of flexibility, compassion, and external support in disaster management.

[00:51:00] The benefits of external assistance in managing disaster recovery.

The continuous nature of local government responsibilities and the need for ongoing support.

Welcome to PCC Local Time. This week we have a special episode – the first in a series of episodes created in partnership with APMM, the Association of Professional Municipal Managers. We are talking with the current and upcoming Presidents, Amanda Serock and Dave Pribulka about the topics that are challenging local government today and the municipal manager who is behind the scenes making it all happen.

Follow this podcast and sign up for the newsletter to follow this series and related episodes. But more importantly, check out the APMM conference and ICMA conference this fall. If you have been sitting on the fence, well, we are waiting for you.

Learn more about APMM and sign up to be a volunteer at the ICMA Conference

Amanda Serock (LinkedIn)

Amanda has been working professionally in municipal management for 20 years. She is currently serving as the Township Manager in Concord Township, Delaware County, PA where she was appointed in October of 2017. Prior to that she served as Township Manager and Sewer Authority Manager at Chadd's Ford Township.

She received her Master’s Degree in Public Administration from Villanova University and her Bachelor’s Degree from LaSalle University.

David Pribulka (LinkedIn)

David is currently serving as the Township Manager in Susquehanna Township, Dauphin County, PA. since March 2022. Prior to that appointment he served as manager of Ferguson Township for 9.5 years and as Assistant Township Manager at Ferguson prior to that.

He received her Master's Degree in Public Administration from Kutztown University of Pennsylvania and his Bachelor's Degree from Moravian University.

TIME STAMPS:

[00:01:17] Leadership in Local Government.

[00:04:15] Municipal managers sharing technology.

[00:10:16] Generational dynamics in the workplace.

[00:10:48] Changing dynamics in local governments.

[00:16:01] Public safety and crisis.

[00:20:47] Sustainability challenges for managers.

[00:22:11] Professional management and development.

[00:26:02] Finding the Managerial Path.

[00:30:35] Seeking confidence and inclusion.

[00:34:16] Welcoming community in municipal government.

[00:37:43] APMM conference planning excitement.

[00:39:13] Becoming coachable.

[00:42:45] Passing the torch of leadership.

Today, we welcome back Ray Patchett, the former City Manager of Carlsbad, California and now consultant to leadership teams. Ray brings a wealth of knowledge and insights into the organizational principles of city management and teams.

I asked Ray to take a deeper dive into his 8 Traits of High Performing Teams which will soon be out in published form. What stands out to me about Ray is his practical application of theory, direct approach, and insightful understanding of the city manager's role.

Our interview starts by exploring the concepts that influenced his development of these eight traits and concludes with a brief discussion of each trait.

If you like what you hear today, sign up for PCC Local Time Newsletter to get an email in your box every Friday with resources like this.

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Bio

Raymond R. Patchett served as the City Manager for the City of Carlsbad, California, for 20 plus years where he has done extensive implementation of strategic change in a public sector organization. He joined the City in 1985. Prior to his appointment as City Manager in 1987, he served as Assistant City Manager for the City of Carlsbad, and has worked in local government since 1974 with the Cities of Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach and Burbank.

He formed Patchett & Associates in 2006 to offer clients a full spectrum of consulting, coaching and training services that foster community excellence, organizational effectiveness and personal growth.

Patchett holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Public Administration from the University of Southern California, and a Master’s Degree in Organization Development from Pepperdine University. He is a Certified Facilitator in Group Facilitation Methods, Participatory Strategic Planning, and Relationship Awareness Theory

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Bruce Tuckman; Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing

• Stanley McChrystal, Team of Teams

Quick summary of the 8 Traits:

1. Set the course and stay on course

2. Shape and energize the culture

3. Get the right people on the team

4. Empower others to manage the results

5. Establish ground rules or a working agreement

6. Do things to foster trust

7. Focus on results and regularly track progress

8. Provide flexible guidelines to produce superior results.

TIMESTAMPS:

[00:03:35] Synergy in team building.

[00:04:37] Managing Cross-Functional Teams.

[00:10:04] The mission creates the team.

[00:15:04] City manager as facilitator.

[00:19:18] Facilitation skills in teamwork.

[00:26:20] Bureaucracy in organizations.

[00:27:24] Public service and learning culture.

[00:35:06] Managing resistance and change.

[00:41:30] The ethical obligation to be politically neutral.

[00:44:48] Team development questions.

[00:49:55] Handling resistance in group dynamics.

[00:52:25] Building a safe space.

Today, I bring you Peter Marshall. Peter has a long and distinguished career as a city manager and consultant to local governments. Most notably, he was city manager at State College Pennsylvania for many years and before that, Newark, Delaware.

Peter and I have had many conversations over the years. He has so much to say about the field of city management, but today I bring you perhaps my favorite conversation and that is about his travels to other parts of the world to meet with other city managers and teach.

Marshall holds a Master’s Degree from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He has been a municipal manager in Michigan (6 years), Delaware (13 years), and Pennsylvania (22 years). In addition to municipal management, Marshall taught Public Administration, Labor Studies, Municipal Management, and Government at four universities. Marshall has also had extensive experience with local government officials in several foreign countries.

LinkedIn

Article in the Daily Collegian

Timestamps:

[00:00:22] Traveling during Northern Ireland troubles.

[00:08:25] Journey to Australia for work.

[00:19:05] Life in the Australian Outback.

[00:23:18] Experiences with Indigenous Australians

[00:25:38] Exchange with Christchurch, England

[00:26:15] International travels and conferences.

[00:31:20] A chance encounter.

[00:37:44] Japanese culture observations.

[00:39:12] Homestay with Japanese City Manager

[00:46:28] Teaching in Georgia (former Soviet Union).

[00:51:25] Academic exchange and learning.

[00:51:48] The Value of International Experiences for Managers

[00:53:42] Peter's Takeaways from International Travels

45

Today we talk with managers about the the role of technology in local government and the need to adapt to and address technology challenges.

My co-host today is Claudia Arriaga, Senior Vice President of Customer Service at OpenGov

Our three distinguished guests include:

Aaron Siko, Manager, Hempfield Township, Westmoreland County

Dave Pribulka Manager, Susquehanna Township, Dauphin County

Brad Gotshall, Manager, Lower Paxton Township, Dauphin County

This episode is brought to you by OpenGov.

OpenGov is the leader in cloud software exclusively designed for local government agencies.

Our mission is to power more effective and accountable government. With more than 1800 local government agencies across the U.S. using its solutions for budgeting and planning, procurement, financials, asset management, and permitting and licensing, the team has heard countless stories from public servants like you. Hear some of the most inspiring ones - and share your own story - at Why We Serve

And, OpenGov is hosting a can't-miss user conference in summer 2024 - it'll be the only time public servants from across all types of agencies. Secure your spot at here: https://opengovtransform2024.vfairs.com/en/.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:32] Evolving cybersecurity threats.

[00:06:52] Enhancing transparency and communication.

[00:09:42] Using technology for transparency.

[00:13:36] Elected officials and technology.

[00:16:45] Technological enhancements for submitting complaints.

[00:21:40] Automating workflows with technology.

[00:25:33] Future cities and transportation modernization.

[00:28:04] Internet speed upgrade.

[00:32:14] Utilizing data for better services.

[00:36:11] Technology upgrades and collaboration.

[00:40:00] Workplace environment and remote work.

[00:44:22] Enhancements in the mobile workplace.

[00:49:19] Staff-generated ideas and implementation.

[00:51:43] Code enforcement and technology.

[00:57:29] Value-added benefits for employees.

[01:00:54] Cybersecurity and technology vulnerabilities.

[01:05:47] Importance of collaboration and networking.

[01:07:32] Collaboration and gratitude.

Copyright 2026 Nancy Joan Hess

Today we are talking about sustainable futures, what that means and how it intersects with local government. I am joined by co-host John Diamond, Professor Emeritus, Edge Hill University, UK and three esteemed guests.

• Christa Breum Amhøj Co-founder Action University, Copenhagen Business School, Denmark
• Pam Adams, Sustainability Planner at Centre Region Council of Governments, Pennsylvania, US
• Jim Price, Borough Manager, Crafton Borough Manager, Sustainable Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

This is the second episode in our Across the Pond series in which we engage topics that are both global and local. Where do we locate the limits of our understanding and how can we reach across boundaries to gain insights?

If you are interested in getting more content like this, sign up for our Friday PCC newsletter HERE

John Diamond is an Emeritus Professor of Public Policy and Professional Practice at Edge Hill University in the UK. He works as a critical friend to leaders and practitioners in the not-for-profit and university sectors. Central to his approach is the active use of conversations and dialogue as a way of developing and strengthening the power of relational practice and learning . He is a co-editor of the internationally focused Handbook of Teaching Public Administration (2022) and is co-editor of two book series – University-Community Policy Connections and Critical Perspectives in International Public Sector Management

Christa Breum Amhøj - See also: Slide Deck - Life Affirming Collaboration (Three Waves of Sustainability)

Pam Adams

Jim Price

Christa:

• The Glasgow Energy Lab
• Laura Storm, Regenerative Leadership
• Tim Ingold Lines of Life

Pam:

• Communities Program - The World Research Institute
• National Renewal Energy Lab
• City Climate Corner Podcast

Jim:

• Sustainable PA
• Paul Hawkins The Ecology of Commerce

John:

• Thomas Bryer, Central Florida University
• (See also) PCC Local Time Episode #27 - Building relationships with local governments and nonprofits; with Dr. John Diamond, Dr. Sarah L Young and Dr. Thomas Bryer.
• Kristy Docherty, University of Edinborough

00:02:23 Intro: Sustainability and regenerative approaches.

The timestamp for when the podcast starts to discuss the different perspectives on sustainability is 00:10:27. Understanding different perspectives on sustainability.

00:13:00 Regenerative perspective on public management.

00:18:39 New public entrepreneurial perspective: redefining resources and organizations.

00:28:57 Local communities can drive innovation and experimentation for sustainable solutions.

00:30:51 Governance is a continual process.

00:41:00 Climate change research is crucial.

00:43:06 Academia and municipalities need to collaborate for sustainable change.

00:49:00 Importance of university-locality relationships.

00:56:09 Case studies drive sustainable change.

01:02:21 Importance of local engagement.

01:05:55 Holistic approach for sustainable future.

01:12:37 Importance of leadership and collaboration.

What does an ethnologist in policing from the UK have in common with a Police Chief from the U.S.? Quite a bit as it turns out. But the contrast also helps us get a fuller perspective on what is going on behind the scenes.

This is the first episode in our Across the Pond series in which we engage topics that are both global and local. Where do we locate the limits of our understanding and how can we reach across boundaries to gain insights?

This episode highlights the challenges and demands of policing today. We address legitimacy in policing, the focus on vulnerability vs criminality, recruitment and professional development, and more broadly the evolving nature of police work.

If you are interested in getting more content like this, sign up for our Friday PCC newsletter HERE

SHOWNOTES

Bios

Mike Rowe

• Disassembling Police Culture
• Ethnography and the Evocative World of Policing (OUT SOON; Edited By Matthew Bacon, Bethan Loftus, Mike Rowe)

Ron Camacho

• Spotlight on the work of Ron Camacho
• Strategies to keep your ego in check

[Mentioned in the show @51:23] CURRENT READING LIST FOR BOROUGH OF CHAMBERSBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT

• Emotional Intelligence 2.0 by Travis Bradberry
• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins
• Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win BBY Jocko Willink
• Leaders Eat last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't by Simon Sinek
• Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcolm Gladwell

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Focus on vulnerability in policing.

00:06:25 Importance of community engagement.

00:15:14 Understanding police use of stop and search.

00:20:20 Training is crucial for police.

00:25:18 Discretion influenced by various factors.

00:32:23 Importance of human interactions.

00:36:54 Invest in self-improvement and well-being.

00:42:39 Focus on vulnerability, not criminality.

00:51:23 Education is key for police.

00:54:49 Invest in education for officers.

01:02:18 Support officers in their mission.

01:07:37 Hope for the future of policing.

01:14:06 Importance of continuous learning.

Today we dive into the final conversations of our series. This time we talk about the multi-generational workforce and the path to professionalism.

My guest, Kim Nash teaches for the Society of Human Resource Management and has a consultancy focused on helping HR professionals grow their career.

This series contains six conversations that build on the central theme of how HR can create value in an organization.

If you are interested in more in-depth notes on this episode and additional content, or would like to know more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday PCC newsletter HERE

Kim has spent more than 20 years teaching the SHRM HR Essentials, the SHRM Learning System, and other human resource related courses to mentor and encourage human resource professionals to grow in their professional development and pass the certification exam. In 2017, Kim founded her company, THriv, LLC to mentor, coach, teach, and train human resource professionals and leaders for success. In the spring of 2023, Kim published her first book, Burn the Plow, a story about her career journey, and she launched a Vlog, Fill My Cup designed to renew and inspire leaders in the summer of 2023.

00:00:00 Millennials and Gen Z dominate workforce.

00:09:03 Work-life balance and changing priorities.

00:13:17 Generational interaction is crucial.

00:16:59 Face-to-face interaction is important.

00:23:10 Bridging generation gaps through collaboration.

00:27:29 Reverse mentorship in the workplace.

00:29:03 HR needs to be bridge builders.

00:37:12 HR professionals need financial understanding.

00:43:24 Take initiative in your career.

00:47:33 Explore different paths to HR.

00:55:02 Continuing education is essential.

00:57:11 Importance of HR professionalism.

Welcome to PCC Local Time. I am your host Nancy Hess and today we continue our six-part conversation series on Busting HR Myths series with Kim Nash. We talk about whether organizations that pay the most get the best employees and how HR becomes the scapegoat in organizations.

If you are interested in more in-depth notes on this episode and additional content, or would like to know more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday PCC newsletter HERE

Kim has spent more than 20 years teaching the SHRM HR Essentials, the SHRM Learning System, and other human resource related courses to mentor and encourage human resource professionals to grow in their professional development and pass the certification exam. In 2017, Kim founded her company, THriv, LLC to mentor, coach, teach, and train human resource professionals and leaders for success. In the spring of 2023, Kim published her first book, Burn the Plow, a story about her career journey, and she launched a Vlog, Fill My Cup designed to renew and inspire leaders in the summer of 2023.

Find out more about Kim Nash HERE or connect with her on LinkedIn

[00:02:10] Top paying employers struggle.

[00:03:25] Pay is not the only motivator.

[00:04:33] Employee turnover and retention.

[00:51:19] Importance of manager and HR partnership.

[00:08:30] Onboarding and employee buddy.

[00:09:10] Retention starts in the recruitment process.

[00:14:08] Rethinking sign-on bonuses.

[00:19:06] Generational differences in benefit preferences.

[00:26:58] Flexibility in the workplace.

[00:28:03] The gig economy.

[00:31:13] Changing work to enable flexibility.

[00:35:31] Pay increases and fairness.

[00:39:31] HR as scapegoat.

[00:43:18] Termination and difficult conversations.

[00:49:34] Managerial Training and Development.

[00:54:12] Policies and enforcement.

[00:57:37] Involve leadership in policy decisions.

[01:01:23] Odd policies in organizations.

[00:59:14] Importance of effective organizational policies.