PCC Local Time

In this episode of PCC Local Time, we sit down with three dynamic municipal leaders from southeastern Pennsylvania—John Ernst (Lansdale Borough), Amanda Lafty (Upper Merion Township), and Dave Burman (Haverford Township). Representing three generations of managers, they dive into the hard questions facing local governments today: housing instability, generational workforce changes, the role of social media, the looming fiscal cliff, zoning reform, and even the future of public utilities.

🗝️ Topics include:

• Housing pressures in boroughs and suburbs
• Workforce shifts and millennial recruitment
• Succession planning and structural reorganization
• Potential and limits of social media
• Zoning reform and housing affordability
• MS4 compliance burdens
• Shared services and regional collaboration

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APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

00:00 – Housing issues in Lansdale

05:00 – Workforce changes and generational transitions

08:30 – Collective bargaining and staff retention

11:00 – Succession planning and restructuring

13:00 – Using social media in recruitment

17:00 – Affordable housing and zoning tensions

21:00 – Accessory dwelling units and density

24:00 – Transit access and economic concerns

25:30 – Fiscal cliff and revenue diversification

28:30 – Public utilities and privatization

30:00 – MS4 mandates and funding responsibilities

32:00 – Magic wand ideas for civic education and communication

37:00 – Shared staffing and municipal collaboration

40:00 – Cross-community learning and rural leadership

42:30 – Closing reflections

This is the first episode of the APMM 2025 podcast series featuring regional roundtables. We are joined by three municipal managers: Greg Primm from Lower Burrell, Kristen Denne from Bethel Park, and Seth Abrams from Forest Hills. We talk about emotional resilience and the personal toll of being the buffer when tensions arise, the importance of honest dialogue with peers, especially within a region and shifting expectations from the workforce and the public.

Contact info:

Greg Primm

Kirsten Denne

Seth Abrams

APMM - Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management

Pioneering Change Community Newsletter

Key Topics:

• The erosion of professional advisory roles and ethical challenges when elected officials disregard legal codes.
• Legislation by social media" and the pressure for instant responses to public complaints
• Generational workforce challenges and the struggle to retain talent in an era of work-life balance expectations
• The impact of social media on decision-making and public expectations
• Balancing short-term political pressures with long-term municipal planning needs
• Regional cooperation strategies and emergency services challenges

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Greg's on professional standards erosion

00:03:30 - Kristen on "legislation by social media" concept

00:04:30 - Seth on zoning decision-making challenges

00:07:30 - Communication and social media strategy discussion

00:11:30 - Kristen - workforce and generational challenges

00:14:00 - Nancy asks about adapting work for younger employees

00:19:30 - Seth on staffing and resource constraints

00:22:00 - Nancy transitions to relationships with elected officials

00:29:00 - Magic wand section begins

00:35:30 - Nancy wraps up magic wand ideas

00:36:00 - Final thoughts and parting words begin

00:38:00 - Greg raises EMS crisis concerns

00:39:30 - Nancy introduces regionalization topic

00:44:00 - Positive ending with recruitment discussion

00:45:00 - Closing remarks and wrap-up

In this episode of PCC Local Time, Nancy Hess talks with Mike Baumwoll, co-founder and CEO of Rep’d, about how short-form video and authentic communication are transforming how local governments engage with their communities. From AI-driven script tools to lessons from Twitter and the entrepreneurial world, Mike shares actionable insights on how municipal leaders can overcome fear, speak with clarity, and build trust—both inside and outside their organizations. Whether you're a curious manager or a communications pro, this episode offers real-world examples and a hopeful path forward.

Themes: local government communication, community trust, short video strategy, AI for municipalities, civic engagement, human-centered leadership, government tech, authentic messaging.

Mike Baumwoll on LinkedIn

Rep'd Website

[00:00–02:00] Short Video Engagement: Local government videos show 70–80% completion rates, signaling residents prefer concise, authentic messages over long emails.

Core Lesson: Authenticity matters more than production quality.

[02:00–06:00] Building Relationships at Conferences: Trust in government tech starts with handshakes and real conversations. That’s how Rep’d connects with towns like Mount Jackson, VA.

[06:00–09:00]AI Readiness in Local Government: Mike describes three groups:

• Early adopters
• Hesitant or anxious
• Curious but cautious majority
• AI must be practical and easy to use to gain traction.

[09:00–12:00]Leadership Through Communication: Speaking clearly is a leadership skill. Residents don’t want perfect—they want real.

[12:00–17:00]Mike’s Background: From Lafayette College to Twitter, his career journey trained him in marketing, brand messaging, and client relationships. Entrepreneurship runs deep.

[17:00–20:00]Lessons from Twitter: The best communication meets people where they already are, taps into existing conversations, and feels organic—not forced.

[20:00–24:00]Crisis Communication: Whether it’s a flood, explosion, or school emergency, people need fast, clear updates from local officials—preferably via video, right on the homepage.

[24:00–27:00]Why Local Matters: Residents want to trust the people running their communities. It starts with knowing who they are.

[27:00–30:00]Coaching for Reluctant Speakers: Rep’d provides AI-generated scripts, teleprompters, and support to make recording simple—even for the nervous or tech-shy.

[30:00–32:00]Video as an Internal Leadership Tool: Skills gained through external communication translate to better internal communication and cohesion.

[32:00–35:00]From Twitter to Goverment: Mike didn’t imagine he’d end up in local government tech—but now he doesn’t want to be anywhere else.

[35:00–37:00]Advice for Entrepreneurs: Building for local government is different. You must care deeply and build trust first. It’s people work.

[37:00–End] Future of AI in Government: The entrepreneurial spotlight is shifting to government and AI. The investment is growing—but trust and simplicity must remain central.

This is a cross-over podcast episode from our Substack site MuniSquare. We hope you will enjoy and follow subscribe if you like what you see.

In this episode Nancy Hess and Mike Rowe from the University of Liverpool explore James C. Scott's groundbreaking book "Seeing Like a State" and its powerful implications for local government.

Discover how governments make society "legible" through mapping and regulation, why top-down planning often fails, and how everyday acts of resistance shape our communities. From Brasília's utopian architecture to contract farming's unintended consequences, this conversation reveals how Scott's insights help us understand everything from zoning disputes to the hidden knowledge that really keeps organizations running. Essential listening for anyone working in public administration, urban planning, or community development.

00:00 - 03:00 - Introduction and Context

Nancy introduces the episode structure and Scott's four key concepts; Mike explains discovering Scott's work at the intersection of public administration and anthropology

03:00 - 07:00 - Everyday Forms of Resistance

Explainer on hidden resistance in daily life; discussion of Indonesian flood management and animistic land practices

07:00 - 11:00 - From Job Descriptions to Legibility

Nancy's organizational development experience; Mike's story about the two women who "really ran" the university; introduction to legibility concept

11:00 - 16:00 - Legibility and Simplification

Explainer on cadastral mapping and forest management; immigration policy as example of complex simplification

16:00 - 20:00 - Planning and Local Knowledge

Discussion of urban sprawl, high-speed rail planning challenges, and Colin Ward's anarchist architecture

20:00 - 24:00 - Cadastral Mapping and Zoning

Historical context of land mapping for taxation; modern parallels in small business and cash economy

24:00 - 30:00 - High Modernism and Brasília

Explainer on Le Corbusier's influence; the story of Brasília's construction workers creating thriving informal settlements

30:00 - 36:00 - Agricultural Simplification

Contract farming as modern example; loss of generational farming knowledge; comparison to contracting out government services

36:00 - 42:00 - Local Government Applications

Lancaster County agriculture, mushroom farms vs. new developments, building on floodplains; practical advice for policy-making

42:00 - 43:00 - Conclusion

Reflections on Scott's political reception and continuing relevance

A few weeks ago, APMM concluded another successful conference in Lancaster Pennsylvania. This episode is a recording from one of the sessions and is part of the 2025 APMM series.

In this session, four past presidents of APMM open up about what it means to lead while legacy still shapes the norms. With humor, honesty, and insight, they share lessons on mentorship, advocacy, fitting in (or not), and what happens when you finally stop shrinking to fit.

This episode offers inspiration and strategy for anyone navigating leadership, from seasoned professionals to those just beginning the climb.

Guest Introductions:

Joining us for this episode are four respected leaders in Pennsylvania municipal management:

Amanda Serock is manager of Concord Township, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. She teaches at Villa Nova University, from where she received her MPA and began her career in local government in 2005. She is an advocate for leaders coming up in the field.

Stephanie Teoli Kuhls has worked in municipal government for over 34 years, most recently serving as Township Manager in Middletown Township, Bucks County. She began her career in 1991, received her MPA from PennStaate and now teaches at Villanova University, where she continues her passion for mentoring emerging leaders in the field.

Amy Farkas is the Township Manager of Patton Township in Centre County and previously served for 17 years in Harris Township. She began her career in local government in 1997, received her MPA from Penn State and has been an active member of APMM since 2005.

Stephanie Mason is the longtime Township Manager of Doylestown Township in Bucks County, where she has served for 38 years, including 25 as manager. She received her MPA from University of Pittsburth and served as APMM's president in 2011 and 2012, she also represented the region on the ICMA Executive Board.

00:00–02:00 | Framing the Conversation

02:00–04:00 | Breaking Into APMM Leadership

04:00–07:00 | What It’s Really Like to Be APMM President

07:00–09:30 | Reform from Within

09:30–12:00 | Professional Advocacy in a Biased System

12:00–15:00 | The Invisible Problems

15:00–17:30 | Claiming Space and Leading with Confidence

17:30–20:00 | How to Get Involved (Even if You're Not Ready for a Committee)

20:00–23:00 | Mentoring and Pushing Others to Lead

23:00–26:00 | Don’t Make Yourself Small

In this powerful session from the APMM annual conference, three former Pennsylvania municipal managers—now working in other states—return to reflect on the structural and political challenges facing the profession in Pennsylvania. They explore what’s holding the profession back, including outdated laws, weak employment protections, fractured local governance, and lack of advocacy. Together with facilitator Dave Kratzer and the audience, they tackle tough questions: Can a manager be both neutral and political? What’s the real role of local government today? And who’s protecting the managers doing the work?

This candid, collegial, and at times gritty conversation is a wake-up call to local leaders—and a call to action for the next generation.

This is part of the 2025 APMM Series. Follow this podcast on your player to catch the next episode!

Quotes:

  📍 A question that needs to be asked across the Commonwealth is, at its core, what is the role of local government? Almost all of us would probably agree. It's not really just to. Pave roads plow and, help take care of trash. As Dave said, the government of a right.

What do our constituents expect of us? These municipal codes that say what we can and can't do are oftentimes tying our hands, so I think there needs to be a conversation about what is the future of municipal government and how can laws be modified. - Eden Ratliff

  📍 We just had a general session on ethics, and there were some really good hypotheticals that were introduced.

And I think we as a cohort can generally agree on the responses to some of those hypotheticals. But I'll tell you, as somebody speaking from personal experience when you're in them, it's a different ballgame. It's much more difficult to stick to the script and answer that way. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 The problem in Pennsylvania is unlike all of the other employee groups, we don't really have anyone representing us. If we think it's PML, you're kidding yourself.

That's not a knock on PML. But if you think about who they represent the elected officials. They don't represent the managers. When the two align, they'll certainly back up. Just understand who they are really working for and who pays their bills. - Matt Candland

  📍 If I had a magic wand, and I'm gonna, I'm just here offend all of you one way or another, but one of the change what I think would be one of the best ways to help the management profession in Pennsylvania is consolidation. - Matt Candland

  📍 I think the reality is if you can manage here in Pennsylvania, you can manage anywhere. This is a state where the manager is a Jack or Jane of all trades and a master of none. You get so much exposure to the direct work we do as local government officials that when you go to a community out of state where that might be delegated or you have a staff that can handle that you can speak with exactitude about how you approached, the situation. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 It's really hard to do big things in the Commonwealth. But a bunch of little things do lead to big things. And all of you are doing that in your communities. - Eden Ratliff

APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

David Kratzer, Session Facilitator

Dave Pribulka, Guest

Eden Ratliff, Guest

Matt Candland, Guest

Nancy J Hess, Podcast Host

00:00–02:00 | Opening Framing

A moment of generational reckoning for the profession: “We are it.”

02:00–03:30 | The Fragmented Landscape of PA Government

Why regionalization is nearly impossible and progress starts from scratch.

03:30–05:00 | What’s the Role of Government Today?

Rethinking the function and purpose of municipal government.

05:00–07:00 | Structural Gridlock and the Union Mentality

How entrenched systems and union dynamics limit bold leadership.

07:00–10:00 | The Employment Contract Problem

The 2-year contract limit, job insecurity, and lack of manager protections.

10:00–12:30 | Who Advocates for Managers?

PML’s misalignment and APMM’s limited capacity for lobbying.

12:30–14:30 | Can We Attract Talent to PA?

Hard truths about why managers leave—and what other states do better.

14:30–17:00 | Should APMM Advocate?

A shift in perspective: neutrality vs. self-protection and representation.

17:00–19:30 | Advice for Exporting Your Career

Overcoming Pennsylvania’s “timid manager” syndrome when applying out-of-state.

19:30–23:30 | The Two-Year Contract in Practice

A cautionary tale and call for legislative reform.

23:30–26:30 | Brick Wall Politics & Systemic Inertia

Why the system works exactly as intended to suppress reform.

26:30–28:00 | Framing Reform in Terms of Money

Fiscal cliffs may do what logic hasn’t—prompt change.

28:00–30:00 | Final Question: How Do You Keep the Spark Alive?

Personal reflections on finding meaning in tough conditions.

Today we have a special first episode of our 2025 APMM series with guests Dan Santoro, Incoming President of APMM and Sara Gibson, Conference Chair.

We are going to chat about the upcoming APMM conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania – Monday, May 19th – Wednesday May 21st. This year’s theme is Find Your Spark and it is chock full of sessions and opportunities to connect.

APMM is the Association in Pennsylvania to network and learn with other municipal managers and this year they will be joined by managers from Delaware!

So check out the links to the APMM conference page and listen in to find out how to get your Spark in Lancaster with APMM!

For more information on the conference: https://www.apmm.net/annual-conference-information.

Host: of PCC Local Time - Nancy J.Hess

Dan Santoro, Township Manager, Cranberry Township, PA

Sara Gibson, Borough Manager, Camp Hill, PA

In this episode of our APMM series, we dive into the evolving world of local government leadership. I'm thrilled to be joined by three distinguished guests: Tom Fountaine, George Needles, and Dave Kratzer. Together, they bring decades of experience and deep insight into the challenges and opportunities shaping municipal management today.

In our conversation, we cover:

• The growing complexity of public expectations and the rise of instant communication in the digital age.

• Navigating governance challenges, from polarization to the need for greater professionalization in local government.

• The competition for talent and what it means for the future of the profession.

• And finally the need to Advocate for statutory protections and employment agreements to ensure stability and address leadership volatility.

Whether you’re a municipal manager, elected official, or someone curious about the dynamics of local governance, this episode offers valuable insights on leadership, adaptability, and the profession’s future.

APMM Website (Upcoming Executive Conference Info)

APMM LinkedIN

**

Tom Fountaine

David Kratzer Jr

George Needles

Duration of Employment Agreements (Starting: [00:00:00])

• "The limitation in the statute that doesn't allow local municipalities to make their own decisions about that issue is not a good statute...those decisions should be made by local governing bodies." - Tom

Increased Interaction with Elected Officials (Starting: [00:03:00])

• "I probably spend more time today working directly with elected officials, communicating with elected officials, attending meetings with elected officials...than I did when I started in this career." - Tom

Impact of Polarization and Social Media (Starting: [00:04:00])

• "The polarization of the world has really made this work much different than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago." - Tom

Evolving Public Expectations (Starting: [00:07:00])

• "People consume communication so many different ways now that there is an expectation that we can deliver in their way that they can consume and we can deliver that very quickly." - George

Faster Information Flow (Starting: [00:09:00])

• "With quicker access to information...it puts more importance on making sure that those charged with governance, the elected officials, are aware of that information before it becomes generally available." - Dave

The Competition for Talent (Starting: [00:12:00])

• "Competition for talent...is not only a function of competition within the sector but also other opportunities that may present for those that have functioned well in this position." - Dave

Standardization Challenges in Pennsylvania Governance (Starting: [00:16:00])

• "We operate under codes, right? But we're not highly standardized...No two [local governments] are similar." - George

Governance Fragmentation and Managerial Transitions (Starting: [00:19:00])

• "The fragmentation of local government in Pennsylvania makes it very complicated...Every square inch of the state is incorporated." - Tom

Cultural Dynamics of Elected Bodies (Starting: [00:23:00])

• "Communities have cultures that develop over time...Elected officials and groups that historically maybe have worked well together are always one election away from having a dramatic change." - Tom

Learning to Fail Publicly (Starting: [00:51:00])

• "Being able to fail publicly and get up and say, you know what, dust it off and let’s keep moving forward...is what’s going to create good governance." - George

The Role of Municipal Managers (Starting: [00:40:00])

• "The manager...is truly functioning as the chief executive officer of the municipality and has a leadership role in the community to implement the policies...established by the elected officials." - Tom

Advocacy for Professional Stability (Starting: [00:32:00])

• "We’ve gotten to a point where we need to revisit duration...and have that duration reflect some of the volatility and some of the commitment that we’re making as professionals to the communities that we serve." - Dave

Importance of Onboarding and Education for Elected Officials (Starting: [00:41:00])

• "We’ve done a significant deep dive orientation for newly elected officials...It helps enormously in orienting new elected officials." - Tom

Impact of Contract Management Legislation (Starting: [00:48:00])

• "City management is about people and about the leadership that people bring to those communities...Having a manager in a community is really critical to help with the professional side of things in a non-partisan, unbiased manner." - Tom

Necessity of Leadership and Adaptability (Starting: [00:52:00])

• "As we talk about the meaningful work that we do and the value that we bring to communities...perhaps we’re a little bit more out there in terms of some of the advocacy for self that needs to occur." - Dave

Today we explore how adaptive thinking, emotional intelligence, and innovative frameworks like the OODA loop and Cynefin transform problem-solving are impacting policing. Lou Hayes Jr., a detective sergeant, and complexity facilitator Gary Wong share insights on navigating uncertainty, fostering trust, and rethinking traditional approaches to leadership. Perfect for leaders, law enforcement professionals, and anyone tackling complex challenges.

Nancy Hess, Host of PCC Local Time

Lou Hayes , Jr. (LinkedIn)

• The Illinois Model

Gary Wong (LinkedIn)

• Welcome to My Brain

IDEAS/ RESOURCES MENTIONS IN SHOW:

John Boyds OODA Loop

 Dr. Gary Klein's work on recognition, prime decision making

A Leader’s Framework for Decisionmaking (HBR Article co-authored by Dave Snowden)

[00:09:00] Adaptive Thinking in Policing

Lou emphasizes the need for adaptive thinking in policing, focusing on reframing problems, understanding complex dynamics, and utilizing frameworks like the OODA loop to navigate evolving situations.

Quotes:

• Lou: "In policing, you rarely encounter situations that fit into neat, predefined boxes. You need tools and frameworks that adapt in real-time to the chaos around you."
• Gary: "The transition from seeing things as 'either-or' to 'both-and' opens up creative, novel solutions that weren't initially apparent."

Storytelling and emotional intelligence are highlighted as critical tools for decision-making, team building, and understanding diverse perspectives in policing.

Quotes:

• Lou: "Storytelling builds a bank of experiences we can draw from, helping us navigate new and complex situations with confidence."
• Gary: "Emotional intelligence isn't just about managing emotions but also about fostering environments where diverse perspectives come together effectively."

[00:33:00]The Intersection of Policy and Complexity

Lou and Gary discuss the limitations of rigid, policy-driven approaches in addressing complex policing scenarios. They advocate for more flexible policies that acknowledge and adapt to complexity.

Quotes:

• Lou: "Policies need to balance structure with flexibility, allowing officers to navigate both ordered and chaotic situations effectively."
• Gary: "The challenge isn't micromanagement; it's misapplied micromanagement in contexts where creativity and flexibility are required."

In this episode, I sit down with Yaron Prywes, a coaching psychologist, executive coach, and educator whose career has been dedicated to helping leaders and teams reach their full potential. We explore the transformative power of coaching—how it builds trust, unlocks self-awareness, and helps leaders navigate challenges in both public and private sectors. From resolving conflicts to fostering accountability, Yaron shares practical tools and stories that illustrate the impact of coaching. Whether you're a leader or a team member, this conversation offers valuable insights into how coaching can create meaningful change.

Yaron Prywes is a coaching psychologist, executive coach, and educator known for his innovative, visual approach to coaching. His work on visual action plans has been published in The Philosophy of Coaching: An International Journal, and he is currently authoring The Visual Coaching Handbook, which features a collection of creative, field-tested techniques. Yaron has led research on the outcomes of coaching and leadership development initiatives and previously taught Executive Coaching at Columbia University, where he supervised new coaches as they worked with live clients for the first time.

LINKEDIN

• Nancy introduces Yaron, sharing the story of how they met and his dedication to coaching.

• Yaron recounts his first encounter with a career coach and how it set him on his path to coaching.

• The parallels between sports coaching and executive coaching, focusing on performance adjustments.

• Yaron explains the importance of seeing clients as whole individuals and how personal and professional challenges intersect.

• Typical contexts in which coaching is introduced, particularly in public sector organizations.

• A story about coaching a CFO with black-and-white thinking and the importance of diplomacy.

• Yaron describes the Neethling Brain Instrument (NBI) and how it helps teams understand communication styles.

• The value of 360 feedback in developing leaders and creating self-awareness.

• Coaching to empower teams to take ownership of challenges and build accountability.

• A case study on resolving conflict in a utilities department through coaching and team-building exercises.

• How sharing personal highs and lows can transform team dynamics and build trust.

• The importance of leaders creating safe environments to surface and address issues before they escalate.

• Yaron outlines the typical phases of coaching: discovery, planning, and execution.

• Yaron explains the metaphor of coaching clients as protagonists on a hero’s journey, navigating challenges and growth.

• Nancy and Yaron discuss how self-awareness helps leaders identify their strengths and weaknesses.