In this episode, artist Charles Gaines and fashion designer Grace Wales Bonner explore how art can bridge the gap between what we perceive and what is real, prompting us to question our relationship with truth.

Gaines’s conceptual systems challenge the notion of a singular truth, while Bonner’s fashion designs reveal the layers of identity and history embedded in her work. How do subjective interpretation and objective reality intersect, and where is the line between what we see and what is real?

Music in this episode:

Charles Gaines

Manifestos 6: Ben Patterson. 2023

Performance presented as part of the exhibition Artist’s Choice: Grace Wales

Bonner—Spirit Movers, The Museum of Modern Art, New York, November 16, 2023–April 7, 2024

Performed and filmed on March 21, 2024

Composer: Charles Gaines

Conductor and music director: John Eagle

Producer: Mads Falcone

Violin: Yaz Lancaster

Violin: Connie Li

Viola: Jay Julio

Cello: Wayne Smith

Bass: Marguerite Cox

Percussion and xylophone: Pauline Roberts

Trumpet: Wayne du Maine

Trombone: Sterling Davis

Tuba: Jono Hill

Video documentation and editing: Oresti Tsonopoulos, Alex Munro

Audio mix: Shane O’Connell

Artist’s Choice: Grace Wales Bonner—Spirit Movers is organized by Grace Wales Bonner with Michelle Kuo, The Marlene Hess Curator, Dana Liljegren, Curatorial Assistant, and Elizabeth Wickham, Curatorial Assistant, Department of Painting and Sculpture, MoMA, with the collaboration of Nick Murphy, Curatorial Partner, Pantograph, Paris. Produced by Lizzie Gorfaine, Associate Director and Producer, Performance and Live Programs, with Aminah Ibrahim, Assistant Performance Coordinator, Performance and Live Programs, MoMA.

Thanks to Liam Sangmuah and Jessica Hamenyimana, Research Associates, Wales Bonner.

© 2024 The Museum of Modern Art, New York

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