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"Even like childbirth for women, it's very painful, but then it's over. And you, you, you move on and, and you forget about it because. Because all that pain. And look, here's this beautiful little baby. So this life. And, and especially in today's world, things change all the time. So it's very difficult, I think, to realize or envision or a place where the suffering is abs. Total, abject and unmitigated."