Positive on Publishing

In this episode, you'll learn the importance of your why, how to get started on writing a book, and how to boost your credibility.

Our guest is Mitchell Levy, a parallel entrepreneur and author of over 60 books.

The six "fun nuggets" from this interview are:

#1: A great idea for a book is a controversial topic or idea.

#2: Follow-through is one of the most difficult obstacles for authors.

#3: Know your why. The "10 Whys" that I mention in the interview comes from Module Three, Lesson One in one of my courses on publishing. The lesson is called "Identify Your Why". Here is a screenshot of the "Why as your weapon (to help you decide, based on your why, which way to publish).

You can enroll in the course for free here: https://makeeverythingfun.teachable.com/p/make-publishing-profitable-and-fun Here is a downloadable one-pager on the 10 Whys.

#4: The best place to start is to just START.

#5: Know the difference between being a serial entrepreneur and being a parallel entrepreneur.

#6: A good business plan (like what we follow in the Lean Launch model) starts with customer discovery and customer needs.

About Mitchell Levy

Global Credibility Expert Mitchell Levy (pronounced Lee Vee) is a TEDx speaker and international bestselling author of over 60 books. His superpower is extracting the genius from your head in a three-hour interview so that his team can ghostwrite your book, publish it, distribute it, and make you an Amazon bestselling author in four months. He is an accomplished Entrepreneur who has created twenty businesses in Silicon Valley including four publishing companies that have published over 850 books. He's provided strategic consulting to over one hundred companies and has been chairman of the board of a NASDAQ-listed company. Mitchell has been happily married for thirty years and regularly spends four weeks in Europe with family and friends.

LINKS

MitchellLevy360.com Linkedin.com/in/MitchellLevy Facebook.com/HappyAbout Twitter.com/HappyAbout AHAthat.com / THiNKaha.com Instagram.com/Mitchell.Levy/ Mitchel Levy Presents AHA Moments: https://mitchelllevy.com/mitchelllevypresents/ ThoughtLeaderLife.com LinkedIn Thought Leadership Best Practices Group: aha.pub/t-l-b-p

In this episode, you'll learn how you can attract creativity and success in your life.

Our guest is Debra Poneman, author of Chicken Soup for the American Idol Soul and What? No Mea!?. Debra is a transformational leader, mentor, mom, and much more. We'll talk about her upcoming live group mentoring course, Yes to Success. Don't miss the offer to receive an instant download of Debra's book, The 5 Secrets to a Life of True Success.

The eight "fun nuggets" from this interview are:

#1: We plan plans and God laughs.

#2: We (as human beings) are tuning forks that vibrate and attract like.

#3: Your ideas are not random. Ideas come to you because you are supposed to manifest those ideas.

#4: What is sacred should be kept secret.

#5: Listening to your heart is your only guaranteed path to success.

#6: To doubt is to be human.

#7: Actions speak louder than words.

#8: Success cannot flow through disorder.

About Debra Poneman

For over 40 years, Debra Poneman, bestselling author and founder of Yes to Success Seminars, has shared her system, now used by tens of thousands of people around the world, to create lives of not only success and abundance, but deep happiness, self-love, and lasting inner fulfillment.

Known as the mentor to the mentors, Debra's students have used her teachings to become mega-successful entrepreneurs, renowned transformational leaders, NY Times bestselling authors, millionaires, billionaires—even household names. But Debra feels her greatest accomplishment is not only that she has taught so many people how to live their dreams but also how to look in the mirror and love the person they see.

LINKS

Get your free ebook that Debra mentioned during the interview: https://pp820.isrefer.com/go/e-book/kathrynguylay/

Yestosuccess.com facebook.com/DebraPoneman.YesToSuccess/

We discussed Debra's daughter's (Deanna's) chiropractic practice in Issaquah, WA: www.wayoflifewellness.com (If you mention Debra's name, they will give you 1/2 off your initial exam!)

Information about Daniel's (Debra's son's) non-profit: shotinthedarkfoundation.org

Daniel's athlete management firm: www.beyond.am

In this episode, which is complementary to Episode 065 with Carol Kline, you'll learn how you can experience Conscious Luck in your life.

Our guest for episode 066 is Dr. Gay Hendricks, New York Times bestselling author and leader in the fields of relationship transformation and body-mind transformation. We talk about his upcoming book, Conscious Luck: Eight Secrets to Intentionally Change Your Fortune.

The six "fun nuggets" from this interview are:

#1: It is easier to be lucky than to be "better".

#2: Let the universe work in your favor (through conscious luck).

#3: Luck is a choice.

#4: Luck is not random.

#5: Luck is like a wind that is blowing all the time (you just have to get your sails above it in order for it to lift you).

#6: Conscious luck can allow you to overcome your upper limits and find your home in the zone of genius.

About Dr. Gay Hendricks: Gay Hendricks has been a leader in the fields of relationship transformation and body-mind transformation for more than 45 years. After earning his Ph.D. from Stanford in 1974, Gay served as Professor of Counseling Psychology at the University of Colorado for 21 years. He has written more than 40 books, including bestsellers such as Five Wishes, The Big Leap, Conscious Loving, and Conscious Loving Ever After, (the last two co-authored with his co-author and mate for more than 35 years, Dr. Kathlyn Hendricks). He is also a mystery novelist, with a series of five books featuring the Tibetan-Buddhist private detective, Tenzing Norbu, as well as a new mystery series featuring a Victorian-era London detective, Sir Errol Hyde. His latest book, Conscious Luck, reveals eight ways to change your fortunes through the power of intention. Gay has appeared on more than 500 radio and television shows, including Oprah, CNN, CNBC, 48 HOURS and others. LINKS

Hendricks Institute- https://hendricks.com/

Link to Conscious Luck book page with bonuses- https://www.consciousluck.com/

Gay's other books on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=gay+hendricks&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss Link to Dr. Tina Seelig's TedTalk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX61e3sAj5k

In this episode, you'll learn how you can experience Conscious Luck in your life.

I've switched up the format to have just one introductory"fun nugget" followed by the eight secrets our guest provides on creating conscious luck in your life.

Our guest, Five-time New York Times bestselling author, Carol Kline, has devoted her career to teaching, writing, and speaking about consciousness and personal growth. Her latest book is co-written with Gay Hendricks and is called Conscious Luck: Eight Secrets to Intentionally Change Your Fortune.

The introductory "fun nugget": Luck is about attitudes, actions, and associations (not randomness).

Here are the four Principles to achieving conscious luck:

#1: Commit to being lucky.

#2: Clear away blocks to being lucky.

#3: Transform shame into a magnet for creating luck.

#4: Give luck a reason to visit (make sure your goals light you up, and light up the world).

Here are the four Practices to achieving conscious luck:

#1: Take bold action consistently.

#2: Find your lucky tribe.

#3: Master the art of being in the right place at the right time

#4: Practice radical gratitude and appreciation

About Carol Kline Five-time New York Times bestselling author, Carol Kline, has devoted her career to teaching, writing, and speaking about consciousness and personal growth. Over the last 25 years, Carol has co-authored more than a dozen books with some of the world's top transformational leaders—including Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen of Chicken Soup for the Soul fame, Marci Shimoff, Lisa Nichols, and Gay Hendricks. Those books include Conscious Luck, Happy for No Reason, Love for No Reason, You've Got to Read this Book, The Ultimate Dog Lover and The Ultimate Cat Lover, as well as five books in the Chicken Soup for the Soul series. Inspired by her experience writing Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul in 1997, she became deeply involved in animal rescue work. This led her to help run and build an animal shelter called Noah's Ark Animal Foundation in Fairfield, Iowa. Today, Carol lives in Ojai, California with her husband, Larry, and their dog, Buddy, and is at work on a number of writing, business, and service projects.

In this episode, you'll learn how you can experience more financial abundance in your life.

Our guest, Susie Carder, is a published author, public speaker, profit coach, entrepreneur, and inventor of the Predictable Success Method.

This interview includes FIX "fun nuggets":

#1: Your business success is only 15% technical. 85% is your business strategy.

#2: A "no" in your business life can lead to great success. As Marci Shimoff says, "Rejection is God's projection": https://makeeverythingfun.com/podcast/e035-marci-shimoff/

#3: You can make a book be wildly profitable, but you must have a well-defined strategy. (Please check out my FREE course, How to Make Publishing Profitable and Fun - I made this course free during the COVID crisis to assist aspiring writers): https://makeeverythingfun.teachable.com/p/make-publishing-profitable-and-fun

#4: Pay yourself first as an entrepreneur.

#5: Fans are not necessarily customers; engage them in order to turn fans into customers.

About Susie Carder

Susie Carder is a published author, public speaker, profit coach, entrepreneur, and inventor of the Predictable Success Method. With 20+ years of experience, she's had the opportunity to work with leading business influencers from around the world to help them plan, strategize and reach success.

She is the author of the upcoming book, Power Your Profits: https://poweryourprofitsbook.com

https://www.susiecarder.com

In this episode, you'll hear some timely advice during the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, with information on how to engage with health care providers and others in a loving way.

Our guest, Marilyn Suttle, is one of the top 10 of Global Guru's Top 30 Customer Service Thought Leaders for 2020.

We have seven "fun nuggets" from the episode:

#1: Be present during these challenging times. We want to create an ability to override our natural biology which is based on the survival instinct (and fear).

#2: (Pause)... then look for the positive even in the negative.

#3: (Pause)...then create some distance between the situation and the result (what lies between is the belief, which you can control).

#4: Work on compassion and empathy for others from a somatic (body-based) level.

#5: Recognize that you energetically create your world with your emotions.

#6: Connection is part of the job when you are dealing with customers.

#7: Claim 100% responsibility for 50% of your relationships.

About Marilyn Suttle

Marilyn Suttle is a results coach and customer service expert who specializes in creating "Suttle Shifts" in the way people think and act, so they can produce massive results. A leading authority in service excellence, communication, and strengthening relationships, as well as content marketing, she's been sourced as an expert by Psychology Today, U.S. News and World Report, Corp Magazine, and many more. Marilyn is listed in the top 10 of Global Guru's Top 30 Customer Service Thought Leaders for 2020. She has published three books - one with a major publisher, one self-published, and a customer service coloring book! Links

Marilyn Suttle's website: https://www.marilynsuttle.com/

More about the modality Marilyn mentioned, RIM: https://www.riminstitute.com/about/dr-deb-sandella/

Episode Title: Heal Your MindBody System with Dr. Mario Martinez

In this episode, you'll learn amazing "fun nuggets" about how you can heal yourself from "archetype" emotional wounds that may be affecting your immune system.

Our guest, Dr. Mario Martinez, will provide a structure for identifying which kind of wound you might carry as well as the "antidote" that will allow you to heal on a holistic level.

We have six "fun nuggets" from the episode:

#1: A book can be a support for other work you do to serve clients (so that you can leverage every hour you spend with a client).

#2: Behavior change requires a new language so that new neural connections can be made in the brain. This new language can be anchored in the body via the emotions/a felt sense.

#3: Neurons that fire together wire together.

#4: Affirmations don't work alone; you must anchor the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in the body.

#5: Dr. Martinez has identified three archetypes of wound or "dampers of becomingness": -abandonment -shame and -betrayal. Each of these archetypes or would has physical symptoms and emotions that are correlated in the body: -abandonment-cold and low immune systems (emotion: isolation) -shame-hot and inflammation/autoimmune conditions (emotion: embarrassment) -betrayal-.hot and cardiovascular issues (emotion: anger).

#6: The body cannot "think" its way through the healing process. We cannot heal in the Beta wave state. Dr. Martinez teaches us to put ourselves into a contemplative state (mindfulness/meditation) associated with Theta and Alpha Waves so that we can truly heal the mind-body system.

About Dr. Mario Martinez Dr. Martinez is a clinical neuropsychologist who specializes in how cultural beliefs affect health and longevity. He proposes, based on credible research evidence, that longevity is learned and the causes of health are inherited. He has studied healthy centenarians (100 years or older) worldwide and found that only 20 to 25% can be attributed to genetics - the rest is related to how they live and the cultural beliefs they share. Dr. Martinez can do interviews on Zoom, or live when he is lecturing in your city. He is the author of the bestselling book The MindBody Code: How to Change the Beliefs that Limit Your Health, Longevity, and Success that teaches his theory and practice of biocognitive science to the general public. In addition to longevity, he also explains why our immune system is not just a protector. Instead, it responds to the cultural premises we learn to perceive the world. Link to article about Coronavirus: https://medium.com/@themindbodycode/panic-is-the-corona-viruss-best-friend-a49587956a79 Other Relevant Links: Biocognitive Science Institute: https://www.biocognitive.com/

The Empowerment Code: https://www.empowermentcode.org/

Facebook (English): https://www.facebook.com/mindbodyculture/

YouTube Channel (English & Spanish): https://www.youtube.com/user/biocognitive

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.mariomartinez/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Biocognitive1

SoundCloud (English & Spanish): https://soundcloud.com/mario-martinez-477

Published Works Available at Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/Mario-Martinez/e/B002BLPU6A/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 Book, eBook, and Audio - The MindBody Self: How Longevity is Culturally Learned and The Causes of Health Are Inherited Book - The MindBody Code: How to Change the Beliefs that Limit Your Health, Longevity, and Success CD - The Mind Body Code: How the Mind Wounds and Heals the Body eBook – The Man from Autumn: A Psychological Novel Book – El Hombre de Otoño: Una Novela Psicologógica CD - The Journey of Breathing Imagery: How to Change Your Haunting Memories to Healing Guides CD – Understanding the Chaos of Stress: A Navigational Guide CD – Teoría y Práctica Biocognitiva: Un Nuevo Modelo del Sistema Inmune Published Articles in Professional Journals: https://independent.academia.edu/TheMindBodySelf

In this episode, you'll learn amazing "fun nuggets" about how you can optimize your health through a new paradigm in health and wellness (oxygen therapy/ hyperbaric treatment).

Our guest, Dr. Jason Sonners, will provide some great inspiration through role-modeling to fit in writing (as an educational process) even with a full schedule including running a clinical practice, running a business, and being a positive change agent in the world of health and wellness.

Dr. Jason is the owner and one of the doctors at Core Therapies, an entrepreneur at HBOT USA, author of Oxygen Under Pressure: Using Hyperbaric Oxygen to Restore Health, Reduce Inflammation, Reverse Aging and Revolutionize Healthcare, and educator extraordinaire.

We have six "fun nuggets" from the episode:

#1: Doctors are educators, not commanders

#2: Doctors and patients can co-create outcomes for optimal compliance and wellbeing

#3: Human beings, like plants, are complex systems that require adjustments of numerous variables to achieve optimal health

#4: Optimal medicine focuses on performance (and physiology), not pathology

#5: Optimal health requires the optimal raw materials (we talk about light, oxygen, nutrients, and hydration)

#6: (Healthy) longevity is now more possible than ever before, but requires preventative and proactive measures, specifically to put out the fires of inflammation and to energize the mitochondria.

About Dr. Jason Sonners Dr. Sonners can be best described as an educator, author, and doctor on a mission to help people live pain-free and full lives.

As the owner and one of the doctors at Core Therapies, Dr. Sonners primarily practices functional medicine taking on complex cases including autoimmune conditions, chronic inflammation, and neurologic dysfunction. He uses nutrition, detoxification, hyperbaric oxygen, and herbal therapies to improve the health and quality of life for his patients. Dr. Jason also guest lectures for various functional medicine conferences around the country talking about the use of nutrition, fasting, red light therapy and hyperbaric oxygen in helping the chronic illnesses plaguing our country. Dr. Sonners is on the faculty for the Medical Academy of Pediatric and Special Needs (MedMAPS) as well as the International Hyperbaric Association (IHA) educating other doctors on alternative and complementary treatment methods. He also guest lectures for various functional medicine conferences around the country talking about the use of nutrition, fasting, red light therapy and hyperbaric oxygen in helping the chronic illnesses plaguing our country

Published works: January 2020: Oxygen Under Pressure: Using Hyperbaric Oxygen to Restore Health, Reduce Inflammation, Reverse Aging and Revolutionize Healthcare (Amazon Bestseller). June 2019: Autism: A Functional Medicine Guidebook to Putting the Pieces Back Together. February 2018: Neuropathy: A Functional Medicine Guidebook to Complex Neurologic Disease. 2015: Wellness to the Core details Core Therapies' principle belief system about the multifactorial approach to regaining control over and maintaining your health. Links Core Therapies Family Wellness Center New Jersey Hyperbaric Oxygen Center HBOT USA Corp Oxygen Under Pressure: Using Hyperbaric Oxygen to Restore Health, Reduce Inflammation, Reverse Aging and Revolutionize Healthcare

In this episode, you'll learn amazing "fun nuggets" that will boost your health and longevity AND get some great tips on writing a book that can build a community to create positive change.

Now that is what I call a fun legacy!

My guest is Dr. Anna Cabeca, author of The Hormone Fix and the upcoming Keto Green 16.

Here are the episode's "fun nuggets" regarding health and longevity:

#1: Healthy hormones are not just about estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone. The master controls are 1) insulin, 2) cortisol, and 3) oxytocin. For an oxytocin hit, try the following: puppy love, kitten love (think any baby animal or snuggly baby in general) laughter, play, intimacy, dancing...the list goes on!

#2: Hormones are also critical to our mental clarity (important for writing a book or any focused endeavor)

#3: We are (especially women) especially neuro-endocrine vulnerable between the ages of 35 to 55.

#4: Memory and mood are strongly impacted by fuel source (the options are either glucose or ketones for the brain; having some ketones as fuel can be excellent for the brain)

Here are the "fun nuggets related to the writing and publishing journey:

#1: A book can start and build a community (and create a movement)

#2: A traditionally published book such as Dr. Anna's starts with an agent that truly believes in the work, and then moves into the proposal and finally writing stages

#3: For writing efficiency, Dr. Anna recommends focus, fasting and an accountability partner

#4: For the editing process, be ready to "let go" of much of your content, as the magic can happen in the pruning process (Dr. Anna referred to it as "slash and burn").

Website

Shop, including links to urine test kits, Might Maca, and much more

Dr. Anna's KetoGreen Facebook Community

About Dr. Anna Cabeca Dr. Anna Cabeca is an internationally-acclaimed menopause and sexual health expert, global speaker and pioneering promoter of women's health. She is Emory University- trained and triple board-certified in gynecology and obstetrics, integrative medicine and anti-aging and regenerative medicine, and is the author of "The Hormone Fix," a diet and holistic lifestyle program for menopausal women. Her areas of specialty include bio-identical hormone treatments and natural hormone- balancing strategies, and she has received extensive notoriety for her virtual transformational programs including Women's Restorative Health, Sexual CPR®, and Magic Menopause. She created the successful and popular alkaline superfoods drink Mighty Maca® PLUS, and a top-selling, rejuvenating feminine vulvar cream for women, Julva®. In her spare time, Dr. Cabeca hosts the highly-regarded series "Couch Talk," featuring compelling podcasts focused on a wide variety of important health and wellness topics. She was named "2018 Innovator of the Year" by Mindshare, the #1 conference for health and wellness influencers, and was also honored with the prestigious 2017 Alan P. Mintz Award, presented annually by the Age Management Medicine Group to the most outstanding physician who displays clinical excellence and entrepreneurship. Dr. Cabeca has reached hundreds of thousands of women around the globe, inspiring them to reclaim their optimal health and realize they can journey through menopause and find more purpose and pleasure than they ever dreamed possible. She balances her passion for women's health with faith, grace, and skill, while raising her four daughters, and leading the non-profit foundation she created in honor of her son, Garrett V. Bivens, who tragically died as a toddler. Dr. Cabeca infuses her presentations with humor, raw connection, and passion, and she impacts lives each and every day. Follow her journey on her blog at DrAnnaCabeca.com and connect with her on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

In this episode, I release an interview I did with the Nonfiction Authors Association Founder Stephanie Chandler. We shed some light on some financial aspects of both writing and publishing.

So the guest and host tables are turned for this particular episode, which is always a fun twist on a concept!

I've provided the complete transcript of our interview instead of "fun nuggets".

I'll also provide you with the links to the FREE courses on publishing in my Teachable school:

Make Publishing Profitable and Fun

Make Publishing Fun Summit

I also have an excellent course (priced at $197) with 5x #1 NYT bestselling author Carol Kline for authors writing transformational non-fiction. I highly recommend checking that out if that is your genre.

If you are looking for the report of the author survey which I discuss in this interview, it is contained in both of my free teachable courses on publishing, so I've got you covered.

Here is the transcript of our conversation:

Stephanie: Well. Hi everybody. Welcome to the teleseminar series for the Nonfiction Authors Association. We are excited to welcome Kathryn Guylay today and we're going to be talking about the financial side of publishing and understanding what that is all about. I am your host, Stephanie Chandler. Always happy to have you join us. As a reminder, we do have the phone lines muted and this session is recorded. This event will last 30 minutes and recordings are available to authority and VIP members of the Nonfiction Authors Association and if you're new to us, in addition to event recordings, members receive many additional benefits including exclusive templates, checklists, and other content released every week.

Stephanie: Access to our active member forum on LinkedIn, free admission to local chapter meetings across the US, discounts off the Nonfiction Book Awards, The Nonfiction Writers Conference, as well as our online courses and author toolkits and discounts with our partners including Office Depot, PR Newswire, Gabby Press and VSP. For more visit nonfictionauthorsassociation.com to join us. Sorry, I'm fumbling this morning, but now I'm thrilled to introduce our guest.

Stephanie: Kathryn Guylay comes to the publishing industry with a background in management consulting as well as nonprofit management, a numbers girl, she received her MBA in 1995 and went on to work with dozens of multinational corporations across diverse industries. She stumbled into the publishing world many years later after writing her first book, Mountain Mantras, Wellness and Life Lessons from the Slopes. She has since written two children's books and her latest nonfiction book was released just weeks ago and it's called Look Before You Leap: The Smart Authors Guide to Avoiding the Money Pit and Achieving Financial Success in Publishing. Her books have gone on to achieve nine awards and Amazon bestseller status. Kathryn, thanks so much for joining us today.

Kathryn G.: I am so thrilled to be here. I'm a big fan of yours, Stephanie, so thank you so much for all the great work.

Stephanie: Thank you for that. I love that you're helping authors understand the financial side of publishing. I think it's something we certainly don't talk about enough here. So, and you recently put together a survey to gather some information about that. Who is your audience for this survey and what was your goal in creating that?

Kathryn G.: Well, yeah, I think it's important to go back to why I even started to do this project. It took three months and several thousand dollars of my own invested money in terms of some VA time and using some survey tools and advanced survey tools because it was a very in-depth survey. We got some incredible data. So my goal really was, because I'm a numbers gal, I wanted to find out if some of the horror stories that I had heard were true. So I'm part of lots of different author groups and even some masterminds where people have confessed their financial woes to me, I even heard of someone going bankrupt. So it's like really? And then Stephanie, I'm sure you've heard, you hear these get rich quick pitches from people saying, go write a book and get rich quick.

Kathryn G.: So there were these two stories that I was trying to reconcile the horror stories and then the get rich quick. And so I said, you know what? I'm going to collect data that I know is real and I'm going to work with the data. I've done lots of surveys in my work as a management consultant. So that was my goal was to find out what the real truth is, and so you also asked about the audience. The participants in the survey were actually across three groups. So I did a different survey for traditionally published authors for self-published and for hybrid because the questions were a little different in terms of asking about advances and investments into the company for hybrid. And then just out of pocket spends for self-publishing.

Kathryn G.: So it was about 40 authors that bared their souls. I'm deeply grateful to all of them because there was a lot of questions on the survey across eight different sections that they really had to spend sometimes up to an hour going through the survey. And the idea was that I shared all the results with everyone and we all learned a lot. So it was a great process really to get behind these big stories that I was hearing. Were they true? Were they not true?

Stephanie: Wow. Interesting. Well, so let's go through some of that data. What were some of the key takeaways you got from the traditionally published authors?

Kathryn G.: So traditionally published authors, I have to say that was the hardest group of authors to enroll in the survey. It was pretty evenly spaced, those 40 participants were pretty evenly spaced, but it was harder to get the traditionally published authors even though it was completely confidential. It's really tough to admit to what is happening with advances today. So I was really surprised to hear that most of the authors are not getting advances or are getting very small advances. Kathryn G.: And in general I also ask them happiness or satisfaction questions. And this is really crazy, Stephanie. I wasn't expecting this, but the traditionally published authors were the least satisfied across all three groups. And I would say what I would attribute that to is that, and this is in reading the comments, is that the expectations were really high from the traditionally published authors and what their results were in the end, probably they just weren't as high as their expectations.

Stephanie: That makes a ton of sense to me that expectations in general for authors are a tricky thing because we all want to be super successful and the reality of publishing is it's so much harder than people realize. How about the self-published authors? What were your findings there?

Kathryn G.: They are the happiest group, isn't that great? I was so happy to hear that or to see that. And actually, I also asked about some time questions but traditionally published authors, I couldn't believe it because they have these huge teams behind them. They spent a whole lot more time on their book and this is across development and the distribution and the whole marketing and publicity side of things. I totaled up all the hours and considerably more hours for the traditionally published authors. So when we were talking about self-published, they're actually a little more efficient, which is amazing because I always think of self-publishing as being very entrepreneurial. And so you think it's going to be this crazy time investment and it is.

Kathryn G.: It was about a thousand hours on average across all three groups. We're talking about a lot of time, but their satisfaction with higher the self-published authors, and here's the downside is that the self-publish author group, as I looked across the data, they didn't save enough money in their budget for marketing and publicity. So the self-published author groups spent the least amount on marketing and publicity and guess what? They sold the fewest amount of books.

Stephanie: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense as well. It reminds me of the school science fair where your hypothesis actually matches the results. Unfortunately, that's the tricky reality of all this. What about the hybrid authors? And by hybrid, what is your definition of hybrid? It's a little different for everybody.

Kathryn G.: So good to ask that first. What do we mean by hybrid because going back to, you said science, you take a red flower and you mix it with a white flower and you get a pink flower. Well, you can't really mix traditional with self and come up with hybrid. It's actually an animal of itself. I like to use publishing services company as a way to describe the hybrid. It just basically means consulting model or an author investing model into a company. And what I saw there with the hybrid group was the biggest dramatic differences.

Kathryn G.: If you looked at a curve, it wasn't normal in terms of happiness factors and things like that. It was really lumpy on one side versus the other. So what I would say about hybrid publishing is that you really need to do your homework before you invest in a hybrid publishing company. There are some excellent ones out there and there were some really great stories and great results in the survey from the hybrid published group. But there are also a couple of horror stories. So it's about doing your homework really in that area.

Stephanie: Did you find that some of those horror stories were with the bigger, I call them the big box publishing firms?

Kathryn G.: I took out all the names of any companies or any coaches or anything that gave away anything. I took those all out of the findings report. But I know when I was doing the survey was when Tate Publishing went out of business and I knew this for a fact because I was in touch with the author, there was one author that she was just empty-handed. She had paid in already to Tate publishing. I don't know if you consider them... They are a big company, but they are financially unstable. They took no money from authors and then authors got nothing out of it.

Kathryn G.: So it was one of those things where you have to really, you do your homework, you talk to people that have used the services before. You make sure that you are investing in the right company and if you can make sure that they're financially stable. And that can be true also of traditionally published authors. And this wasn't necessarily somebody in my survey, I just heard about this as a friend of mine. Their traditional publisher went out of business and so her book was no longer available. So there're all kinds of things with the financial stability of the company itself.

Stephanie: So did you discover any financial traps that maybe authors could avoid?

Kathryn G.: Oh definitely. And I would say at the top of the list would be to be really careful about a contract. And so that's going to be in the case of a traditionally published author or a hybrid. You are typically signing a contract upfront and I would definitely suggest that you get a lawyer and yes, that is an investment. But there was one very, very clear story from the survey where this person was trying to get out of a contract and it was costing her probably a whole lot more than if she had just negotiated an escape clause into the contract in the first place. I'll read a quote from, this is from my traditionally published author group. It says, be careful negotiating the contract. Find out all you can about using a traditional publisher before you sign.

Kathryn G.: And I know the background story to this author, it turned out that she had signed a contract and they weren't going to distribute her book digitally. So her book really wasn't available anywhere as an ebook and she had to buy the rights back for her book. And so it was just a crazy story from that perspective. So contracts involving a lawyer upfront and then going really back to what I was saying about the self-publishing group, not budgeting ahead of time and not having enough for marketing and publicity. That's just another trap is that you just charge ahead and you don't do a complete budget across all the areas of publishing. And then you run out of money, and in the case of the self-publishing group who sold the least number of books, they also spent by a significant amount, the least amount of money on marketing and publicity.

Stephanie: Yeah. I always think back when I got my first book deal, I got it myself and without an agent and when they sent over the contract, I wanted to literally cry. It was so overwhelming. It was 23 pages and I didn't understand half of it and I didn't know what I could ask for or not ask for. And so I ended up hiring a professional who helped me negotiate by contract. But boy, that is something you definitely don't want to navigate alone. And the same side on the hybrid publishing, you want to make sure that your agreement is cancelable. I've heard this from a number of authors who've gone with firms that even though they've paid five or 10 or even 15000 or $20000 to have their books produce, they're locked into a contract for up to two or three years, that is outrageous. So that should never be allowed in a hybrid contract.

Kathryn G.: Agreed, yes.

Stephanie: Yeah, for sure just great data you uncovered. What are some of the positive results for authors who invest in publishing?

Kathryn G.: Oh, I got so many great stories and most of it is in the quotes and I'll just pick one. I think this is from myself published group and it starts out with go for it. And then she had a couple of other things that she put in here and then she said, "After I published my book, I had been out there promoting it. I started getting calls from people saying we're looking for someone to come speak to our organization, we're looking for the experts. You've authored a book, we want you." So the idea is that really book publishing is it changing people's lives and it's making them the authority. It's making them the experts and those are the inspiring messages that I got from the survey. And again like the science experiment that you expect it, but I wanted to see that happy satisfaction results.

Stephanie: Yeah, that's exactly what we aim for in the nonfiction world here. What about setting a budget for authors who are embarking on self-publishing and traditional publishing and hybrid? Are there different types of budgets for each of those that you recommend?

Kathryn G.: Yes, definitely. And again, this is based on the averages and medians and highs and lows and you're looking at the 25th and the 75th percentile and what it did in terms of book results. But I would say to create a professionally produced book, which is really the goal. If you're going to self publish this yourself, you really need to set aside around $7000 for the book development. And that's everything from logistics to the multiple stages of editing. So developmental editing and copy editing and proofreading, and then really getting a great cover and the interior design, all that needs to be budgeted. And I saw the numbers come out to be about $7000. Now if you want to get a coach that it's not included in that number, so you want to make sure that you include any kind of coaching.

Kathryn G.: And I saw on average about three to $5000 in coaching across the different groups. Mostly, again, this is paid in for hybrid or out of pocket for settle. And so that's just the development side. But then as you look at the marketing and publicity, Stephanie, I know we've talked about this before and how marketing and publicity time-wise can end up being even more by a huge factor than your writing time, and I've heard everything from four times to 10 times should be spent a time-wise on marketing and publicity.

Kathryn G.: Now, if I said that for cost, like you had to spend four to 10 times the budget on marketing and publicity, I think everybody would just completely shut me out because those are huge numbers. But I would say based on what I saw in the results, that if you can set aside another 7000 for the rest of your whole journey, which is your marketing and publicity and you add the website, the blogs, getting on TV, radio, that's where I saw the best results were actually about $7000 there. So we're talking about $14000 in total.

Stephanie: Yeah. And I would think, especially if you're talking about developmental editing, that number could actually be a lot higher because depending on the amount of developmental editing you need, not every author needs a higher level of editing, but I've seen that get pretty expensive. So that's interesting. And the other thing about investing in marketing, I always think this is a tricky part for authors because it's really hard to earn back your investment in marketing because books have such a low-profit margin. And that's why I really encourage the nonfiction authors to think about other ways their book will benefit them. Like that comment you just read about the author who is suddenly invited to speak and got these other opportunities. I just want to call this out and encourage authors to be thinking about the ultimate goal and the bigger picture and can you market beyond your book? Are there other ways you can make it earn money? Where are you hearing from authors that any of them were actually making money? Or are there any earnings reports?

Kathryn G.: Well, the sad story is that most books do not earn-out. And I have to say, we didn't even talk about the one component which people might be thinking about, and that's also ghostwriting. And so my survey data said that even traditionally published authors are spending around $25000 out of pocket and that's what the traditional deal. So that's another huge component of the budget that one needs to think about if they want to get help there. But no, the answer is that most books are not actually going to earn out on the book sales themselves. But as you teach, Stephanie, and then I hope everybody is learning today, it's all about the back end, it's the products and services that we can sell to our audiences because they really get to know, like and trust us.

Kathryn G.: And that's what a book does. I always encourage people when they're thinking about their book and they get all hung up on the price of a book, I always say, you know what? You're not trying to actually just get somebody to spend $10 or $15 on you. You're trying to get them to spend maybe 10 hours or 15 hours on you to consume your content. That's actually the struggle today, so we just need to get into that mindset of it's about building relationships with our audience for the longterm and the know, like and trust factor.

Stephanie: Well, and I'm thinking about our memoir authors and a lot of times they don't have companion services and things to sell. So in that case and really for everybody that's a time to focus on book sales. Can you sell a thousand books to corporations or non-profits or other large agencies that will distribute or give away your books and maybe you add their company logo to your cover, things like that. Did you happen to cover any of that with your survey?

Kathryn G.: Oh, that would be the specialty sales. That wasn't in the survey, but you're right, that is whether you want to call it selling books by the truckload or just those specialty sales channels. That is really where I'm hearing again, this is more anecdotally, but then I'm hearing success stories and where people actually, when you're starting to sell books by the thousands, you make your money back, for sure. Stephanie: Yeah. What other insights have we not covered that you gained from publishing this survey?

Kathryn G.: Well, I just think it's important for people when they start out, they just need to, again, I really believe that happiness or satisfaction, whatever you want to call it, it's like an equation. It's the reality minus your expectations. So if you have super high expectations and the reality is not so great, then your satisfaction is going to be low. So it's important to think about your goals, about your why in general, what your writing in your nonfiction project. But it's also important to set out your financial budget and then be visiting it, at least on a monthly basis. So I would suggest people create a spreadsheet and they say, okay, what are the parts of development whether it's coaching and ghostwriting, which are some of the big numbers to logistics and editing, and design and cover copywriting if they were going to do some of that for the back of their book.

Kathryn G.: Some people hire copywriters as well for the back of their book. Just put the numbers in there, take a look at them and make sure you're okay with them. And if you end up spending that, that you're okay. And then for marketing, the website ads it giveaways, awards, review copies. Stephanie, you talk all the time and I think it's so important about, people they need to set aside a number in their budget to have books that they can give people. And that is a cost, it's actually not a soft cost, it's a hard cost. And so from the get-go, having that number in there I think is really important. And the same thing with publicity, just set it out there and you know what? If your book, it just takes off like a rocket and I'm so excited it does. Then you can adjust those numbers up, but at least you have a way to gauge, again that satisfaction equation you've set some expectations.

Stephanie: Yeah. And I know you're not an accountant, but the other thing about all these expenses is that you're really creating a business. So these expenses can largely be written off during tax time.

Kathryn G.: Absolutely. In fact, I think anyone that's writing a book, especially a nonfiction book, they need to be treating this book, this project, their set of books like a business. And that means getting to know the industry. When I was in management consulting, I didn't just start working on a project without really getting to know the industry well. And we always budgeted that into our whole project, and our process was spending time up front, getting to know, and if I was going into the telecommunications industry and I had just been in a manufacturing industry, I needed to know how that new industry that I was entering, how it works. And what some of the success stories are and what are the pitfalls. It's the exact same thing, if we're treating our books like our business, we need to know the industry in which we're operating.

Stephanie: Yeah. And not only that but also just learning some basic fundamentals of starting a business. Because if you aren't already an entrepreneur, which many of our members are, but if you're just starting with your first book, you really are launching a business from the ground up, which has its own pros and cons. Because then you're talking about factoring in writing off utilities and things like that. If you've got a dedicated office space in your home and I think neither of us is an accountant but think that IRS will let you go for, I think it's two or three years before they start to view an unprofitable business as a hobby. So a new business is expected to lose money in the first couple of years. So that really does help to offset some of these expenses. Right, Kathryn?

Kathryn G.: Oh yes. I have been in situations where I needed to do that.

Stephanie: Yeah. I think every new business owner has been there and so, but that also gives you some incentive to make that spend because it is going to help you offset it at tax time and you're tracking those things and maybe you're hiring additional help with a virtual assistant and it's a great time to get a bookkeeper if you're like me and you absolutely hate numbers. Keeping track of all of that is really important. Are there any mistakes that you recommend that authors try to avoid from all of this?

Kathryn G.: Well, gosh, I'm just piggyback off your comment there of finding people to help you. A big mistake is, especially if you're self-publishing is to literally think about it as self. Self-publishing, it's everything but self. Meaning you need a team, you need people to help you. You will be miserable if you try to go this path alone. And I think there is some romantic feeling around getting a cabin in the woods and writing. And we've heard about that, it doesn't work today and whether you want to look at it just like you were saying like, "Oh, I really wanted to find somebody to help me with these tasks."

Kathryn G.: You can look at it in almost as a matrix. I look at things on one axis, like what am I good at? And then high, low, and then what do I love to do? High, low. And I can tell you that if I get a low in terms of I like, I don't like to do it and I get a low in terms of I'm not good at it. That's the thing to outsource, so people, do not go it alone.

Stephanie: Well, not only that, but I just don't think we should be in charge of any of the protection of our own books. As a former bookstore owner, every day, local authors walked in with their books, wanting to get them placed in the store. And honestly, I think that's what led me to the path of becoming a publisher and working with authors. Because I saw so many books with homemade covers and that old saying we judge a book by a cover is completely true. That can repel readers that make it look like an amateur job and then it's skimping on the editing which will show up in reviews. If you haven't had thorough editing, people are going to notice and they're going to put it in reviews, doing your own typesetting.

Stephanie: I met an author a couple of years ago who couldn't wait to show me his book at an event and I literally just flipped through the pages and there were like six different fonts used throughout the book. One paragraph was one font and the next was another font because he thought that looked good and it was so distracting, it was so unprofessional. It was not the way to approach it. So this discussion about the budget is not just a pie in the sky discussion. It's a really important one that if you want the world to take your books seriously, you have to be prepared and maybe start saving now for your future goal of getting your book produced. Would that be a safe piece of advice, Kathryn?

Kathryn G.: Absolutely. And a good interior designer and having a budget line item for that would have saved that person's book. The person that gave you that book could have been saved by an interior designer so easily, so quickly.

Stephanie: For sure. And I always think back, I came from the Silicon Valley, and I had just made a plan that I was going to quit my job and I was going to open this bookstore and it was a crazy plan. I could admit it looking back now, but I spent a year and a half building a business plan, putting money aside, building a budget and planning for that. And if you're listening to this and you're in the middle of writing your book right now, this is the time to start this planning and prepare for getting the best production possible for your book, and hopefully also investing in good marketing. Kathryn, this has been so helpful. Can you remind everyone where they can connect with you and where we can access your survey data?

Kathryn G.: Absolutely. I'll start with the survey data. So that's at my website, makewellnessfun.com and so it's just makewellnessfun.com/authorsurvey and that actually gets you to a 40-page report that summarizes all of the data across this huge survey. And I hope everybody enjoys looking at all the nitty-gritty information there. And then I have a website, makeeverythingfun.com and there, people can access a summit with 27 publishing experts including Stephanie, some great information there and a new podcast called a Positive on Publishing. And then I've got a new course coming out that goes through some of this financial preparation, but just basically industry preparation in general.

Stephanie: Fabulous. Well, thank you so much for being our guest today.

Kathryn G.: Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for your great work.

Stephanie: Thank you. And thanks to everyone listening, we conduct our teleseminars every Wednesday. You can check out the schedule or sign up for the mailing list to get notified about events over at nonfictionauthorsassociation.com I hope you all have a wonderful day.