PostNormal Times

0:00: Andrew welcomes guests Bernie Jaworski, who’s the Peter F. Drucker Chair in Management and the Liberal Arts, and Trevor Anthony, who’s a cultural studies PhD fellow.

3:10: Andrew introduces the episode’s thesis: Peter Drucker—generally considered the father of management—is one of the 20th century’s great unrecognized transdisciplinarians.

4:37: Bernie discusses his professional journey, including 15 years as a traditional academic as a tenured professor at the University of Southern California, 10 years as a management consultant with the Monitor Group, and then 13 years in his current position as the Drucker Chair.

8:45: Bernie describes a cornerstone of Drucker’s vision and work: the role of organizations in the functioning society.

11:30: Trevor adds commentary on Drucker’s background and how his experience of the collapse of the Old World in Europe as a youth left him with a respect for results. He connects and contrasts what he calls Drucker’s “constructive” vision with the popular “critical” tradition of the humanities and specifically of cultural studies. 

15:35: Following Andrew’s notion of the challenges and opportunities of world collapse, Bernie describes Drucker’s revolutionary contributions to topics such as values, mission, purpose, and ethics in the realm of business in the 1950s—and thus why Drucker considered management a liberal art.

22:00: Andrew prompts a discussion of Drucker’s self-description as a “social ecologist.” 

30:00: Andrew, Bernie, and Trevor discuss the essential optimism embedded in Drucker’s work, the practice of management, and transdisciplinary work in general.

0:00: Language and its role in shaping our understanding of the world

10:26: Transdisciplinary studies, literacies, and intersectionality

15:00: Language acquisition and multilingualism

19:20: Language barriers in collaboration, with a focus on institutions and their perceived negative connotations

25:39: Using metaphors to shape understanding of institutions and their impact on society

28:36: Metaphorical thinking, peace, and its evolution in context

32:47: Reclaiming language and redefining terms like queer and education.

35:24: Education metaphors and their impact on teaching and learning

37:00: Education as a community of practice, co-creative and adaptive, with the power to effect change

42:14: Transdisciplinary studies, language, and imagination for problem-solving in post-normal times.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko and guest Romeo Guzmán, assistant professor of history at Claremont Graduate University, discuss Romeo’s roots in Pomona and El Monte, and then his studies at UCLA and Columbia University.

3:47: Romeo discusses the founding of the South El Monte Arts Posse (SEMAP).

10:00: Romeo discusses his move into public history and the work of public intellectuals in Mexico. 

14:00: Andrew and Romeo compare the roles of public intellectuals in Mexico and the United States. 

25:00: Romeo describes some specific projects, including Casa Zamora. 

30:00: Romeo discusses some of the challenges in the sustainability of public history work.

36:32: Andrew and Romeo discuss the potential for community building through public history work.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes guest Patricia Easton, professor of humanities.

1:45: Patricia talks about her tenure overseeing the transdisciplinary studies program at Claremont Graduate University and her background as a philosopher. 

4:50: Patricia talks about the evolution of the sciences from natural philosophy into various branches and sub-branches connected by bridge laws. 

8:51: Patricia talks about the breakdown of bridge laws in the attempt to connect the sciences to the humanities, such as history, as they were forced to acknowledge the complexity of the material world. 

9:57: Andrew and Patricia discuss the role the Second World War played in advancing the need and practice of applied—transdisciplinary—knowledge. 

12:28: Andrew considers the roots of transdisciplinarity in Jean Piaget. 

14:45: Andrew and Patricia discuss synthesis as a key aspect of transdisciplinary work.

20:16: Patricia discusses her students’ processes for coming to grips with so-called “wicked” problems. 

25:00: Patricia discusses a case study featuring the integration of the arts and public health initiatives. 

26:48: Andrew and Patricia discuss the arts as knowledge generation.

36:12: Andrew brings up the moral and ethical dimension of transdisciplinary work.

38:08: Patricia talks about the challenges and complexity in achieving work for the public good.

41:55: Andrew talks about the transdisciplinary mindset that results from the recognition of the complexities involved in “wicked” problems, ethical research, etc. 

47:47: Andrew and Patricia talk about who put the trans in transdisciplinarity, and why.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes guest Jeff Macias, professor of practice at Arizona State University who specializes in supply chains and logistics, and who’s also a PhD student at Claremont Graduate University.

2:11: Jeff describes the concept of interconnectivity and the art and science of supply chains. 

4:55: Jeff talks about the bigger picture of supply chains from a strategic perspective and the lessons learned from COVID-19.

6:32: Jeff talks about how he got hooked on supply chains as an undergraduate. 

10:15: Andrew and Jeff discuss the pivot toward pro-social concerns and the ethical side of supply chain management. 

13:04: Andrew and Jeff discuss the value of transdisciplinarity in supply chain management.

18:31: Andrew and Jeff unpack the term future-proofing.

33:39:  Andrew and Jeff consider the opportunities and challenges posed by AI. 

43:45: Andrew and Jeff discuss the role of supply chain management in advancing sustainability.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko, associate provost and director of transdisciplinary studies at Claremont Graduate University, welcomes guest Sandeep Krishnamurthy, Singelyn Family Dean of the College of Business Administration and Singelyn Graduate School of Business at Cal Poly Pomona.

1:50: Sandeep describes growing up in India, studying chemical engineering, and how he ultimately changed course into the study of business administration. 

4:15: Sandeep discusses beginning his teaching career at the University of Washington Bothell.

5:40: Andrew shares his thoughts on the pressure to conform to trodden paths in graduate school.

7:30: Andrew and Sandeep talk about how they began working in transdisciplinary ways.

10:30: Andrew and Sandeep share transdisciplinary lessons learned from COVID-19, especially about how “correct” knowledge is produced and communicated.

19:00: Sandeep shares his thoughts on how the university may adjust to the breadth of information available in the digital era.

22:15: Andrew and Sandeep discuss the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in a university setting.

35:50: Andrew and Sandeep discuss knowledge formation tangential to the university, including blogs and podcasts. 

40:20: Andrew and Sandeep share their thoughts on the importance of the practical application of knowledge in today’s world and the challenges faced by the traditional worlds of academia and academic publishing.

0:00: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes guest Michelle Bligh, interim executive vice president and provost of CGU and professor of organizational behavior in the Division of Behavioral & Organizational Sciences.

1:30: A Claremontian, Michelle traces her trajectory from an undergraduate at Pomona College to how an anthropology course changed her direction.

4:15: Andrew elaborates on the debt that transdisciplinary thought owes anthropology.

5:30: Michelle describes how a study abroad program led her to a refugee camp in Kakuma, Kenya, and then into a Master of Science in Interdisciplinary Studies and then a management PhD.

11:30: Michelle describes how serendipity—the 9/11 attacks—led her back to Claremont.

15:30: Andrew talks about the challenges and opportunities that occur in moments of crisis, when worlds collapse, and how we tend to react.

17:50: Andrew talks about the value of a transdisciplinary education in future-proofing your future. 19:40: Michelle talks about her decision to join CGU.

22:45: Michelle talks about what she learned from her first experience teaching.

24:50: Michelle describes mentoring as a collaboration.

30:45: Michelle describes two noteworthy classes that she has been teaching for over 20 years, including one in leadership/followership, and an MBA course in management she taught at the NEOMA Business School in France with 24 students from 24 different countries.

38:00: Michelle talks about navigating another world collapse after returning to the United States during a heavily charged political moment and having to advocate leadership.

42:30: Andrew talks about the need to embrace complexity when advancing true solutions. 46:00: Michelle talks about making the jump from dean to provost.

49:10: Andrew and Michelle talk about the beauty of imperfect systems.

52:30: Andrew asks if the current crisis of higher education is actually another world collapse.

57:00: Michelle discusses the opportunities presented by world collapse and the possibilities to be extracted through transdisciplinary work for reconfiguring education.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes his guest, Javier Rodríguez from Claremont Graduate University, who's an associate professor in the Department of Public Policy.

1:00: Javier discusses his academic journey, beginning in Colombia with the study of engineering and bringing him to the study of public policy—with novel and poetry writing on the side.

4:50: Javier talks about coming to UCLA and working across various disciplines, including psychology, computer science, mathematics, and philosophy.

13:00: Javier talks about being driven by an artistic sense of curiosity and even obsession. 

18:48: Andrew and Javier discuss the nature of identity in an existential and cognitive sense. 

22:42: Andrew and Javier talk about how we simultaneously navigate multiple and often conflicting realities. 

27:55: Javier responds to the question of how he developed the mindset and skills for negotiating multiple perspectives or realities. 

37:18: Andrew talks about political and practical challenges and the role of transdisciplinary thought in integrating multiple perspectives.

41:00: Andrew and Javier discuss the notion of scientists as politicians. 

44:53: Using Javier’s career as an example, Andrew asks how we may foster more boundary-crossing.

51:59: Andrew and Javier attempt to define inequality versus equity.

0:04: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes guest Jennifer Beamer, head of scholarly communications and open publishing services at the Claremont Colleges Library.

2:00: Jennifer discusses the development of her scholarly identity, beginning with the study of textile science, including teaching and studying in Japan and then completing a PhD at the University of Hawaii.

4:40: Jennifer describes getting interested in publishing inside and outside academia.

9:00: Jennifer describes the discipline of library science and the philosophy behind it as servant leadership.

10:45: Jennifer talks about the shock many students encounter when, after leaving their university, they’re no longer able to access their library’s database. She mentions Google Scholar as, if not the best, then the only way to get access to both library works and open publishing works.

11:30: Andrew and Jennifer discuss the open-access publishing movement and how it evolved out of science scholarship.

14:15: They discuss the monopoly that publishers have on scholarly publishing that requires universities to pay millions of dollars in annual subscription fees.

15:53: Jennifer mentions upcoming mandates requiring immediate open publishing for those receiving federal grant money.

17:00: Jennifer looks forward to a national open-access publishing initiative.

18:30: Jennifer describes the very healthy state of academic publishers, who earn billions of dollars under the current structure. 

21:00: Jennifer mentions the confusion (and changes) resulting from a recent memo from the Office of Science and Technology Policy, and programs from OA2020 and cOAlition S that will make it possible to have open access publishing fees waived for authors. 

22:41: Jennifer describes another alternative: open-access repositories. 

23:30: Andrew asks if and how these open publishing initiatives change the people who access knowledge, and offers a transdisciplinary systems view on the notion of power in publishing, access, and so on. 

28:00: Jennifer mentions issues of access outside of the United States, Canada, and Europe.

29:30: Jennifer mentions the textbook eBook initiative Open Educational Resources, as well as underground open-access platforms.

33:00: In addition to the proliferation of research through social media platforms (such as ResearchGate and LinkedIn), Andrew mentions the expanding opportunities for “academic entrepreneurs” to create knowledge and market themselves through social media.  

36:35: Jennifer and Andrew talk about the importance of curating a scholarly identity online. 

50:00: Andrew situates this conversation amid the evolving university at large.

0:00: Host Andrew Vosko welcomes guest Lori Anne Ferrell, dean of the School of Arts & Humanities.

4:22: Lori Anne describes coming to transdisciplinarity from her background in history, religious studies, and English.

7:10: Andrew connects the value of historians and historians to the importance of temporal thinking.

8:50: Lori Anne and Andrew talk about the humility required of the historian and transdisciplinarian and the danger of assuming that they are wiser and smarter than people of past eras. Lori Anne describes eras of the past as foreign cultures. 

11:18: Lori Anne talks about the value of historians in collaborative and business contexts.

13:17: Andrew talks about design thinking and the skill set of the historian.

16:30: Lori Anne elaborates on the value of humanists in entrepreneurial settings and on collaborations with the Peter F. Drucker and Masatoshi Ito Graduate School of Management.

20:00: Andrew and Lori Anne discuss the integration of the arts and sciences through design thinking.

26:10: Andrew and Lori Anne discuss the challenges of managing new technologies, such as ChatGPT, and the conceptual advantage of humanists.

33:10: Lori Anne and Andrew elaborate on temporal, linear, and cyclical modes of thought, plus the necessity of historical thinking in successful transdisciplinary work.

40:30: Andrew talks about design thinking as a way of managing complexity.

41:18: Andrew talks about the term wicked problems and its centrality to transdisciplinary work.

45:45: Andrew and Lori Anne discuss the need for multiple types of humility: epistemological, axiological, etc., and the kind of humility required for collaborating with those with whom we may disagree.

47:42: Andrew discusses the challenge of collaboration across different points of view as the metaphysics of dilemma.

54:13: Andrew responds to Lori Anne’s question on transdisciplinary thought’s engagement with religion.