Last week, we held a live panel discussion at SaksWorks with the always eloquent Sharleen Joynt of “Dear Shandy” about navigating the parasocial waters we swim in — specifically as podcasters and as reality TV commentators (and, in Sharleen’s case, as a one-time participant on “The Bachelor”), but also as people who live in a society that is increasingly structured by parasocial, rather than social, relationships.

We talked about John Mulaney and how he disappointed us by getting a divorce and also how he must be protected from us. We talked about making fun of people on reality TV and also feeling deep empathy for them. We talked about how almost everyone is now in a position to be watched on social media by people who don’t know them, and how close even a not-at-all-public figure is to going viral and experiencing the crush of mass attention. We talked about Chris Hayes’s wonderful essay in the New Yorker, “On the Internet, We’re Always Famous,” and how it captures the destabilizing nature of fame (whether brief or enduring), and the way in which the surveillance powers of social media have brought on an age of democratized fame. We talked about influencing, and how monetizing a relatable version of your own personality inevitably invites massive, overwhelming feedback on who you are as a person — both positive and negative.

The event was a lot of fun for us, and while we wish you all could have been there in person, we hope you enjoy this taped version.

We were hosted by SaksWorks in Manhattan, which is lovely and full of hydroponic herb gardens. Many thanks to Rachel Sklar for inviting us, all of the wonderful people at SaksWorks for making this happen, and Ron Passaro for recording the conversation for us!

More reading about parasocial relationships:

“On The Internet, We’re Always Famous,” Chris Hayes, The New Yorker

“John Mulaney Was Performing A Role All Along,” Aja Romano, Vox

“John Mulaney And The Great Celebrity-Sympathy Overcorrection,” Lili Loofbourow, Slate

“Podcasters Are People: The Intimacy of Medium vs. Parasocial Relationships,” Wil Williams

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We’ve been watching…

“Only Murders in the Building,” which I just finished. It’s so charming and zany, with all the darkness heavily couched in scenery-chewing camp, and while I feared the true crime satire would peter out by the end, the finale was one of the funniest and sharpest episodes yet. Plus, it perfectly sets up a season two, which will reportedly be here next year.

Also, has anyone heard that “Succession” is back? -Claire

GUYS I FINALLY WATCHED THE MARBLES EPISODE OF “SQUID GAME” AND I COULDN’T STOP WEEPING. -Emma

We’ve been reading…

Haley Nahman’s beautiful essay about “feeling like yourself.” -Emma

We’ve been listening to…

“Celebrity Book Club with Steven and Lily,” a podcast in which comedians Lily Marotta and Steven Phillips-Horst read celebrity memoirs, coffee table books, and cookbooks in order to gaily rip them into a tattered pile of clichés, clunky prose tics, faux authenticity and diet tips. I’ve actually had to stop listening to it in public because people are weirded out when I giggle quietly while I shop for groceries. -Claire

“Queen of the Con: The Irish Heiress,” a podcast hosted by a reality TV producer in his 40s who got scammed by a woman who he thought was his best friend — and turned out to be a serial con artist. I’m a sucker for a scam story. I can’t help myself. -Emma

We’ve been buying…

Tartan. -Claire

Velvet. -Emma