You’ve heard of cryptography. Perhaps quantum cryptography too. Maybe even post-quantum cryptography. But what about *quantum post-quantum cryptography*?! When this came up in conversation with Oxford Computer Scientist Matthew Gray recently, I’d never heard of it. I wanted to know more, so I invited him for a podcast. Turns out, there’s a whole world of layers to unravel linking quantum and cryptography — or even multiple worlds… In this discussion, we dip into those, and how this all relates to “metacomplexity” problems: the hardness of figuring out the hardness of a problem. Listen to this episode if you want to experience your perception of how quantum computing meets cryptography shift from monochrome to technicolour, as we push cryptography to its limits through the lens of fundamental assumptions about computation, quantum physics and reality.