When a coach starts dismantling the rules they were handed—about marriage, ambition, safety, identity—everything changes. Jen Vertanen is in that place. And she’s turning it into a community.

In this conversation, Jen shares the origin of her new project, We the Unruly, and the deep emotional audit she had to do to get there. We talked about what it means to be seen in your grief, how legacy beliefs shape our coaching voice, and why some of our most powerful work comes only after we've let things die.

If you’ve been itching to burn your business down—or finally let it evolve—this one’s for you. Jen doesn’t hold back, and neither did I.