Refrigerator Moms

Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott launch a new segment called Not About Autism, built on a simple idea: parents managing complex mental health challenges need real breaks, not more algorithm-fed autism content. To kick it off, they dig into a 2006 email thread from back when they first became friends, revisiting early medication decisions, a beloved longtime psychiatrist, and a very of-its-era debate over The Devil Wears Prada. Along the way they talk reality TV, online shopping in its infancy, the Anne Hathaway-led Yesteryear adaptation, and Emily Wilson's Odyssey translation. 

Key Takeaways:

• A new recurring segment, Not About Autism, is designed as an intentional break from autism-focused content
• Kelley and Julianna read from an actual 2006 email exchange between them
• The email covers an early medication decision, including a diagnosis and a first anti-anxiety prescription
• They both still recommend the same psychiatrist referenced in that 2006 email
• Their paper "A Tough Pill to Swallow" covers how they evaluate whether a medication is working
• The conversation drifts into The Devil Wears Prada, both book and movie, and its sequel
• They recommend the documentary The September Issue as a companion watch
• Book chat touches on Yesteryear, the trad-wife novel Anne Hathaway is adapting
• They also discuss Emily Wilson's translation of The Odyssey
• A future Not About Autism episode will cover the Jane Austen Society

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

A Tough Pill to Swallow — a Refrigerator Moms paper on medicating autism and how to evaluate whether a medication is working. (https://refrigeratormoms.com/a-tough-pill-to-swallow-medicating-autism/)

The Devil Wears Prada — the novel and film referenced throughout the conversation, along with its upcoming sequel.(https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0458352/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_the%20devil%20wears)

The September Issue — a documentary about Anna Wintour and Vogue, recommended as a companion watch to The Devil Wears Prada. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1331025/)

The Run-Through with Vogue — hosted by Chloe Malle, mentioned in connection with behind-the-scenes stories about Anna Wintour and Vogue. (https://open.spotify.com/episode/5h0FDZsFjP3DOuvia003mB)

Yesteryear — a novel about a trad-wife influencer, being adapted into a film starring Anne Hathaway. (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/780686/yesteryear-a-gma-book-club-pick-by-caro-claire-burke/)

The Odyssey (Emily Wilson translation) — referenced in discussing Anne Hathaway's performance in a related adaptation. (https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393356250)

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments for mental health conditions including depression, PTSD, OCD, anxiety, ADHD and autism. Our treatments utilize TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) protocols including rTMS, aTMS, and MeRT. All of our treatments are drug-free and noninvasive. Call for insurance options or learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 Introducing Not About Autism
00:24 Why parents need a break from autism talk
01:10 Life before phones, email, and social media
01:44 Pulling up a 2006 email thread
02:31 The email topic: medication
02:54 A first psychiatrist visit and diagnosis
03:10 Starting buspar, an anti-anxiety medication
04:00 Emoji habits then versus now
04:45 Brain Performance Technologies sponsor message
05:06 Managing medication with Jamba Juice and yogurt
05:44 Devil Wears Prada plans, twenty years ago
06:13 Tough Pill to Swallow, their medication paper
06:39 Back to Devil Wears Prada talk
07:07 Confessing a reality TV addiction
07:20 Real World before Real Housewives
07:31 The book's first hundred pages verdict
08:06 Coordinating babysitting and free weekends
08:25 Early days of online shopping
08:57 Whether they ever saw Prada 2
09:25 Comparing the movie to the book
10:08 Frustration with endless remakes and sequels
10:34 The Vogue Runway podcast comes up
11:24 Brain Performance Technologies sponsor message
11:45 The September Issue documentary recommendation
12:23 Asking for a new book recommendation
12:30 Introducing the novel Yesteryear
13:19 Anne Hathaway's Odyssey performance
14:00 Emily Wilson's Odyssey translation
14:13 Teasing the Jane Austen Society

Tash Dillmon, co-host of Moms Talk Autism, joins the show to talk about KultureCity, the nonprofit making stadiums, airports, bars, and churches sensory inclusive nationwide, and what that access actually looks like in practice. Tash also opens up about parenting her son Jack, now in middle school, as his needs shift from visible behaviors toward anxiety and identity questions like "why am I different?" She and the hosts talk through therapy, TMS, medication, and what it really means to be a child's "safe person," plus a candid take on the controversial book Upward Bound and facilitated communication.

Key Takeaways:

• KultureCity is a nonprofit that certifies sensory inclusive spaces, including NFL stadiums, airports, bars, and churches
• Certified locations offer sensory bags with noise-reducing headphones, fidget tools, and communication cards
• KultureCity's app locates certified venues and includes the Koji system for non-speaking communication
• Autism intensity often comes in waves rather than steadily decreasing with age
• As kids get older, the focus can shift from managing behaviors to managing anxiety, depression, and identity
• Being a "safe person" doesn't mean avoiding hard truths, it means being the one trusted to tell them
• Chronic conditions like anxiety, depression, and OCD require ongoing management, not a single fix
• Therapy readiness evolves over time, and repeated exposure to new tools matters more than one right answer
• Masking is exhausting, and home can be the place where kids don't have to do it

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• KultureCity: the nonprofit sensory inclusive certification organization discussed throughout the episode, covering stadiums, airports, bars, and other venues, including its app and the Koji communication system
• Love on the Spectrum: the TV series discussed near the end of the episode, including the Inclusion Fusion program in Las Vegas featured on the show
• Inclusion Fusion: a program based in Las Vegas mentioned as featured on Love on the Spectrum and attended by Tash's son
• Upward Bound by Woody Brown: a novel discussed as reportedly written with facilitated communication, recommended despite skepticism about its authorship
• Tell Them You Love Me: a documentary referenced regarding the Anna Stubblefield case and the dangers of facilitated communication

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments for mental health conditions including depression, PTSD, OCD, anxiety, ADHD and autism. Our treatments utilize TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) protocols including rTMS, aTMS, and MeRT. All of our treatments are drug-free and noninvasive. Call for insurance options or learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 Introducing guest Tash Dillmon
00:45 What KultureCity is and does
01:46 How KultureCity certifies venues
03:11 Inside a sensory room setup
04:17 What's in the KultureCity sensory bag
04:58 The Koji communication system
05:30 How to find certified venues
06:32 Staff training requirements explained
07:22 Sensory friendly airports
08:22 Sensory friendly bars explained
09:30 Meet Tash's family and son Jack
09:55 Jack's diagnosis and school setting
12:07 Jack's academic and support levels
13:57 Shift from behaviors to mental health
17:14 Starting the mental health conversation
19:14 TMS and managing OCD symptoms
21:10 Framing autism as a chronic condition
22:06 Doing better than the last generation
25:22 Becoming your child's trusted resource
27:06 The risk of masking under pressure
30:16 Talking honestly about wearing masks
34:30 Setting honest expectations with Jack
36:04 Building trust for harder truths later
41:14 Speed round begins
44:22 Upward Bound and facilitated communication
46:08 Where to find Moms Talk Autism

Getting into college is not the same as being ready for it, and for autistic students, that gap can lead to a painful call home. Dr. Marci Schwartz, founder of Thrive College Counseling, joins Julianna and Kelley to unpack what real college readiness looks like: executive functioning, independent living, advocacy, and social connection, all built on a foundation of self-awareness. They talk through how parents can tell if a student is truly ready versus just capable, how to talk about fit instead of prestige, and what to do when a student needs to come home and start again.

Key Takeaways:

• College acceptance does not equal college readiness, self-awareness is the real foundation
• Four core skills to build before college: executive functioning, independent living, advocacy, and social connection
• Asking for help in a timely way is itself a college readiness skill, not just a social nicety
• Nearly 1 in 4 autistic college students drop out, prestige is not protection against that
• Fit matters more than rank: small classes and known professors can outweigh brand-name schools
• Students should demonstrate independence in high school, not just promise they'll do it later
• IEPs and 504s don't carry over to college, the student must self-identify and request accommodations
• Comprehensive support programs, executive functioning coaches, and gap-year skill building are real options when a student isn't ready
• Mental health self-identification is its own readiness skill, and often the hardest one to build
• Neurodiversity-informed career services matter as much as academic accommodations, because the real goal is career, not just college

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Thrive College Counseling — College counseling service specializing in neurodivergent teens, founded by episode guest Dr. Marci Schwartz https://www.thrivecollegecounseling.com

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments for mental health conditions including depression, PTSD, OCD, anxiety, ADHD and autism. Our treatments utilize TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) protocols including rTMS, aTMS, and MeRT. All of our treatments are drug-free and noninvasive. Call for insurance options or learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 A student's crisis call home from college
00:24 Welcome to Refrigerator Moms
01:04 Why college readiness starts in 9th grade
01:04 Meet Dr. Marci Schwartz
01:57 From therapist to college counselor
02:55 The biggest gap in family understanding
03:50 College capable versus college ready
04:06 The four core readiness skills
04:31 Self-awareness as the foundation
05:08 Building self-awareness through mistakes
06:09 Asking for help is a social skill
06:29 Redefining what social support means
08:23 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
09:31 Scaffolding versus true independence
10:32 The show me standard for readiness
11:03 What demonstrating responsibility looks like
13:17 Executive functioning and independent living
13:31 Advocacy and IEP meeting involvement
14:15 Social skills and roommate life
14:33 What realistic prep looks like in high school
16:40 When to start these conversations
17:26 Talking to parents fixed on prestige
19:05 The one in four dropout statistic
19:40 How Dr. Schwartz evaluates college fit
21:15 Helping students recognize their own fit
21:47 Advice for students who come home
23:34 Mental health signs students must self-identify
24:53 Deferring enrollment versus community college
26:35 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
27:24 What accommodations carry over to college
28:48 Comprehensive support programs explained
29:22 The hardest part to set up: mental health
30:31 Neurodiversity-informed career services
31:41 Closing advice for families
32:45 Where to find the Refrigerator Moms paper

RFK Jr. and HHS have launched a deprescribing campaign, and the Refrigerator Moms have thoughts. Julianna and Kelley agree that psychiatric medication, especially for kids and teens, is often over prescribed. But they push back on what's actually being offered as a solution: fast-tracked psychedelic medication, while non-invasive, drug-free options like TMS go unmentioned. They dig into who's prescribing SSRIs (it's not just psychiatrists), what's missing from the conversation about alcohol and legalized cannabis interacting with medication, and why a real deprescribing conversation needs to include real alternatives, not just a new drug.

Key Takeaways:

• RFK Jr. and HHS have started a deprescribing campaign for psychiatric medication
• Julianna and Kelley agree overprescribing is real, especially for children and adolescents
• The campaign's main alternative appears to be fast-tracked psychedelic medication
• TMS, a non-invasive, drug-free option, is largely absent from the public conversation
• TMS is currently covered by insurance for ages 15 and up
• About 40% of SSRIs are prescribed by general practitioners, not psychiatrists
• Legalized cannabis and its interaction with SSRIs remains understudied
• Psychiatrists often lack education about alternatives like TMS and can act as gatekeepers
• TMS is also FDA cleared for smoking cessation, relevant given rising vaping rates
• The hosts want a real conversation about alternatives, not a surface-level one

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments for mental health conditions including depression, PTSD, OCD, anxiety, ADHD and autism. Our treatments utilize transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) protocols including rTMS, aTMS, and MeRT. All of our treatments are drug-free and noninvasive. Call for insurance options or learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 RFK Jr.'s deprescribing campaign begins
00:18 Welcome and today's topic
00:27 Their Dear RFK letter on the website
01:00 Where they agree with RFK Jr.
01:23 Psychedelic medication is the proposed fix
01:49 Concerns about disassociative drugs for kids
02:11 Revisiting their prior medication episode
02:40 Are SSRIs studied in combination with other drugs
02:56 The big question: what are the alternatives
03:26 TMS is missing from the deprescribing conversation
03:49 Searching news comments for TMS mentions
04:28 TMS insurance coverage starts at age 15
05:07 General practitioners prescribe 40% of SSRIs
05:52 A surface-level conversation isn't enough
06:01 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
06:33 What "prescribed correctly" really means
06:55 Legal cannabis and SSRIs, an understudied mix
07:40 TMS is FDA cleared for smoking cessation
08:06 Is RFK Jr. having this conversation in earnest
08:35 Overprescribing is real, but so is the need for alternatives
09:14 Closing thoughts and how to support the show

Nearly one in three autistic people are profoundly autistic: they need round-the-clock care, often cannot speak for themselves, and are rarely part of the public conversation about autism. Julianna Scott and Kelley Jensen built a short paper and a wish list for this community, and this episode walks through both. They trace how the 2013 DSM-5 change folded everyone under one autism umbrella, why that left the most severely affected fighting for the same scarce services, and where the real gaps sit: staffing paid at poverty wages, research that screens out anyone with an IQ under 70, adult services that barely exist, and policy that treats safe, shared housing as "institutional." Along the way they get personal about caregiving versus parenting, the loneliness of independent living done without community, and one creative win: an ABA therapist who taught a 26-year-old to love movies over Zoom, one scene at a time.

Key takeaways:

• Roughly 27% of autistic people are level three, or profoundly autistic, yet the term only entered the literature in 2021.
• The DSM-5 change in 2013 widened the umbrella and stopped tracking the most severe cases separately.
• Less than 15% of autism research funding is estimated to reach profound autism.
• Therapists are scarce because the work is hard, the pay is low, and the required licensure is expensive to earn.
• Many clinical trials require an IQ of 70 or higher, excluding much of this population.
• Rules meant to prevent "congregate" or "institutional" settings can block the shared, safe housing many families actually want.
• A separate diagnosis for profound autism could route higher-need people to services first.
• IHSS pays family caregivers, often at minimum wage, because there is frequently no one else and no day program available.
• The hosts' wish list spans housing, communication, schools, caregiving, medical care, reproductive health, and social life.

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Resources:
VOR (A Voice of Reason) www.vor.net 
A national nonprofit advocating for a full continuum of care options and family decision-making rights for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
Together for Choice www.togetherforchoice.org
A national organization fighting to protect the rights of individuals with I/DD to live, work, and thrive in a setting of their choice.
Solidarity: Parent-to-Parent Support www.solidarityp2p.org
A peer support network for families raising children with severe autism and neurobehavioral disorders.
National Council on Severe Autism (NCSA) www.ncsautism.org 
A nonprofit pursuing recognition, policy, and solutions for individuals and families affected by severe autism.

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments including SAINT (Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy) for treatment-resistant depression and major depressive disorder, as well as MeRT (Magnetic e-resonance therapy) for autistic people aged three or older. Learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 The part of autism we rarely talk about
00:24 Why this episode is for everyone
01:01 The paper and the wish list
01:55 2021: the term "profound autism"
02:08 How the DSM-5 widened the umbrella
03:30 All fighting for the same services
04:36 Institutionalized vs shut out
05:07 Less than 15% of research funding
05:36 The case for a separate diagnosis
06:20 Where the gaps are: staffing
08:14 The research gap and IQ cutoffs
09:35 Adult services barely exist
10:53 Policy: self-advocacy vs high needs
11:46 Needs versus rights
13:01 Facilitated communication, feel-good story
14:33 Caregiving versus parenting
15:33 The wish list begins: housing
16:25 A son's apartment, and his loneliness
19:43 Dementia villages, intentional community
21:01 Communication and AAC devices
21:52 ECT, TMS, and medication
22:11 Schools built for life, not academics
23:00 The target run problem
24:03 Teaching a love of movies over Zoom
26:48 Caregiving: a separate licensure
27:30 IHSS and paying family caregivers
29:24 Medical care and full screening
30:46 Reproductive health
31:26 Social life and a real community
34:00 The paper, and how to help

Brittney Crabtree is raising four kids whose needs land at opposite ends of the autism spectrum, and she joins Julianna and Kelley for an honest conversation most autism content skips. Her 19-year-old son is profoundly autistic and nonspeaking, needing the round-the-clock care she calls extreme caregiving, not parenting. They get into daily safety planning, sensory and frustration-driven aggression, and a services system that promises community integration then turns families away. Brittney also opens up about long-term residential care, siblings who become caregivers, California's Self-Determination Program, and the grief of planning for a future she won't always be part of.

Key Takeaways

• Extreme caregiving means 24/7 supervision to keep a profoundly autistic, nonspeaking adult both healthy and physically safe.
• Aggression tends to fall into two buckets: frustration from being unable to communicate a need, and sensory overload.
• "Fort Knox" home setups (door and pantry locks, shiplap over drywall) become necessary for safety and elopement risk.
• Caring for a profoundly autistic adult is caregiving, not parenting, and naming that distinction helps mentally.
• Long-term residential planning carries real grief, and starting the acceptance process early helps.
• Finding appropriate services can feel like a hide-and-seek game where you already have to know someone.
• California's Self-Determination Program lets families negotiate a budget and choose their own providers, including caregivers their child clicks with.
• There's no "test the waters" equivalent for adult disability housing the way a college dorm works for typical kids.
• Siblings often shift from a brotherly role into a caregiving one.
• Families worry the broader autism conversation is leaving profoundly affected, nonspeaking people behind.

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Organizations mentioned in this episode:
rubycakescookies.com
momstalkautism.com
brave-together.org
wearebravetogether.org

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments including SAINT (Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy) for treatment-resistant depression and major depressive disorder, as well as MeRT (Magnetic e-resonance therapy) for autistic people aged three or older. Learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 Meet Brittney Crabtree of Moms Talk Autism
01:14 Four kids, four different paths
02:19 What "extreme caregiving" really means
04:08 The big three: aggression and safety
04:52 Fort Knox: locks, shiplap, and elopement
06:09 Frustration aggression vs. sensory aggression
08:11 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
08:33 The book "Upward Bound" and facilitated communication
10:50 A system that's woefully inadequate
11:33 No safe place in the community
12:42 When community programs won't accommodate
13:24 Aging out of the school system
14:01 The grief of long-term residential care
15:00 The hide-and-seek of finding services
16:01 The question: what happens when I'm gone
18:39 Resources and the regional center
18:51 California's Self-Determination Program
20:13 Finding caregivers he clicks with
20:15 No way to test the waters on housing
22:02 When siblings become caregivers
28:16 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
28:42 Is profound autism being left behind?
30:09 A separate diagnosis for profound autism
31:14 Needs versus rights
34:24 Speed round
40:31 We Are Brave Together and the Tahoe retreat
43:52 Closing

Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott turn the mic over to the other side of the partnership, welcoming their husbands, Eric and Steve, for a candid conversation about what it actually means to be the autism dad. Drawing from their research paper "Fathers as Secondary Caregivers for Autism Families," the four explore the emotional toll fathers absorb quietly, why dad-specific research is nearly nonexistent, how couples navigate disagreements over therapy choices, and why autism fathers often have no outlet for their stress. Honest, funny, and deeply relatable for any parent who has felt like the outside player in a two-person caregiving team.

Key Takeaways

• Research on autism fathers is sparse, and nearly every study ends with "more research is needed" -- a telling sign dads are still an afterthought.
• In autism support groups, women outnumber men roughly 4 to 1, leaving fathers with almost no peer community.
• Mothers tend to report stress tied to caregiving demands; fathers report stress tied to uncertainty about their role and conflicting feelings about their child.
• Fathers often withhold their own emotional struggles to avoid adding to an already-stretched partner -- deepening their isolation in silence.
• Financial strain in autism fathers correlates with depression, substance abuse, and elevated suicide risk, yet rarely gets named.
• Giving dads a defined, owned task -- music therapy, park runs, bike riding -- creates a meaningful role that does not require mirroring the primary caregiver's approach.
• Maternal gatekeeping, even when well-intentioned, can erode a dad's confidence and cut him off from forming his own relationship with the child.
• Proposing a timeline ("let's revisit in two weeks") is a more effective strategy than digging in when parents disagree on a therapeutic approach.
• The team mentality -- even when never said out loud -- is one of the strongest predictors of a couple staying together through the long haul of autism parenting.
• For single parents and two-parent households alike: county respite programs exist, and using them is not optional -- it is essential.

00:00 Teaser
01:00 Welcoming the husbands
02:13 Intro to the research paper
04:11 How fathers experience stress differently
05:38 The quinoa wars and reality checks
07:40 Maternal gatekeeping and dad confidence
09:17 Letting dads own their role without criticism
10:21 Wanting to know everything after diagnosis
12:54 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
14:03 The financial burden that falls on dads
15:03 Finding quiet time: sneaking home early
16:54 Jealousy over work life
17:30 The emotional burden
21:34 Fathers and the long game
23:17 "When we're gone"
27:29 Why fathers struggle to find support
29:08 Friends, empathy, and action
31:06 Moms must recognize dads lack of outlets
33:49 Isolation from friends and family
37:17 Scenario: professional ignores the secondary caregiver
38:23 IEP meetings: strong cop, crying cop
39:29 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies (MeRT read)
40:22 Scenario: parents can't agree on a therapy
41:12 Dads need their own relationship with the child
44:11 Highlights from the paper's to-do list
45:29 Building a team when you are doing it alone
46:10 Division-of-labor appendix from the paper
48:28 What to say to a dad who doesn't know where to start
49:42 Patience grows if you commit to it
50:13 Speed round: superpowers, deplore, and love
53:07 Closing and origin of the name Refrigerator Moms
54:03 Happy Father's Day; go read the paper

Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott break down SPACE — Supportive Parenting for Anxious Childhood Emotions — a therapeutic approach originally developed in the 1980s that is now being studied for autistic children and teens. Kelley noticed a growing shift in parenting communities away from radical accommodation and toward setting boundaries, and the hosts explore why that matters. Using co-sleeping as a central example, they discuss how accommodating fear-based anxiety in the short term can reinforce it over time, and how SPACE offers a research-backed alternative that builds distress tolerance while still honoring genuine sensory and processing needs.

Key Takeaways

• SPACE stands for Supportive Parenting for Anxious Childhood Emotions and was originally developed in the 1980s for general parenting, not specifically for autism.
• Research shows that family accommodation alleviates anxiety in the short term but is linked to increased symptom severity, greater functional impairment, and higher caregiver burden over time.
• SPACE has shown preliminary evidence of effectiveness: parents rated it highly satisfactory, and both anxiety severity and family accommodation were significantly reduced following treatment.
• The key distinction for autistic kids: accommodate sensory needs, processing differences, and communication needs — do NOT accommodate fear-based anxiety.
• Co-sleeping is a classic example of an accommodation that starts as a short-term fix but can become deeply ingrained by adolescence if not addressed early.
• Anxiety that is not addressed tends to grow — children are unlikely to simply "grow out of it" if the fear has been repeatedly reinforced.
• SPACE uses gradual scaffolding, not cold turkey — slowly introduce coping strategies and mitigating measures to build tolerance without creating more anxiety.
• The approach overlaps with ABA principles: identify the function of the behavior, avoid reinforcing avoidance, and build skills incrementally.
• Prioritize by function: address sleep, health, and daily functioning first, and tackle one behavior at a time rather than everything at once.
• Waiting until a child is older to address entrenched anxiety habits means undoing years of reinforcement on top of the original fear — early intervention matters.

🔗 Learn More: 
Website: refrigeratormoms.com 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/ 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms 
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/ 
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments including SAINT (Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy) for treatment-resistant depression and major depressive disorder, as well as MeRT (Magnetic e-resonance therapy) for autistic people aged three or older. Learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

Timestamps

00:00 Intro & what is SPACE?
01:00 Radical acceptance vs. setting limits
02:00 Kicking the can down the road
02:03 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
03:00 SPACE sounds like solid parenting
03:09 Research background on SPACE
04:24 Co-sleeping case study walkthrough
05:13 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies / MeRT
05:43 Is the anxiety fear-based or sensory?
06:07 CBT, nightlights & scaffolding
06:18 Mapping SPACE onto autistic kids
07:03 Accommodate sensory needs, not fear
07:29 Scaffolding, routines & no cold turkey
07:57 SPACE and ABA overlap
08:03 Persistence, patience & positivity
08:47 Reinforcement is the real problem
09:54 Prioritize by function, one at a time
10:36 Undo years of reinforcement
10:48 Closing thoughts
10:50 Outro & disclaimer

How do you sort real help from snake oil when you're researching autism interventions? In this episode of Refrigerator Moms, Julianna Scott and Kelley Jensen share a practical checklist for evaluating any autism therapy whether you're looking at evidence-based treatments like ABA and speech therapy, or exploring options further off the beaten path like TMS, dietary protocols, or supplement. They talk about why waiting for full FDA approval isn't realistic when your kid's childhood has an expiration date, and how to make smart, informed decisions in the meantime.

Kelley and Julianna cover everything from vetting peer-reviewed research and checking provider qualifications to tracking your child's measurable progress and knowing when to pivot. They remind parents to account for comorbid diagnoses like anxiety, depression, and OCD, and they close with a pointed reminder to keep political noise out of your treatment decisions: you're raising a child, not joining a movement.

Whether you're newly navigating an autism diagnosis or a seasoned parent looking to refine your approach, this episode offers a grounded, experience-backed framework for cutting through the overwhelm.

🔗 Learn More: Website: refrigeratormoms.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments including SAINT (Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy) for treatment-resistant depression and major depressive disorder, as well as MeRT (Magnetic e-resonance therapy) for autistic people aged three or older. Learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 Introduction & episode overview
00:54 Evidence-based treatments for autism
01:05 ABA is still worth it despite its issues
01:37 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
02:04 Medications on-label for autism
02:57 The checklist: how to research interventions
03:09 Why parents have to try
03:31 Step 1: Find independent research
03:55 Exhaust insurance and school district first
04:05 Peer-reviewed journals vs. anecdotal claims
04:39 Reading summary studies and weighing evidence
05:31 Consider all comorbid diagnoses
06:20 Advocating for depression/mood diagnoses
07:18 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies (mid-roll)
07:45 Step 2: Check provider qualifications
08:29 Step 3: Evaluate claims critically
08:55 No cure, only better symptom management
09:10 Step 4: Cross-check multiple sources
09:45 Weigh the risk of harm before trying anything
10:10 Step 5: Consider international research
10:39 TMS research worldwide; MeRT Facebook group
11:28 Step 6: Track your child's progress
12:19 Adjust approach based on results
12:30 Step 7: Use community and professional support
13:07 Clinical trials as an option
13:28 Step 8: Maintain a critical, practical mindset
13:38 Keep politics out of treatment decisions
14:13 Combine sources for informed decisions
14:32 Closing & where to find resources

Julianna Scott and Kelley Jensen open up the social media mailbag for one of their most popular episode formats — real questions from parents, answered with the candor and hard-won experience that Refrigerator Moms is known for. This week's questions span the full arc of the parenting journey: a parent of a nine-year-old convinced they already know the diagnosis before the psychiatrist has said a word; a family watching their child struggle with what looks like panic attacks; a mom navigating conflicting advice about PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance); and a volunteer baseball coach at a complete loss while an unsupported autistic child disrupts every practice.

They talk about the problem with self- and parent-diagnosis, why depression is so often missed in high-functioning young adults, and why "he's autistic, deal with it" isn't a plan. They also revisit SPACE therapy, the limits of radical acceptance, and how to think about matching a child's actual skill level to the activities and environments you put them in.

Whether you're new to this journey or deep in it, this episode delivers the kind of straight talk that helps you take the next step — whatever that looks like for your family.

🔗 Learn More:
Website: refrigeratormoms.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/refrigeratormoms/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/refrigeratormoms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/refrigeratormoms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@RefrigeratorMoms

Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments including SAINT (Stanford Accelerated Intelligent Neuromodulation Therapy) for treatment-resistant depression and major depressive disorder, as well as MeRT (Magnetic e-resonance therapy) for autistic people aged three or older. Learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 Intro: social media Q&A episode
00:17 Julianna's nerves about the format
00:36 Q1: Seeing a psychiatrist for first time
02:27 Intake process explained
04:04 Takeaway: don't parent-diagnose
05:12 HIPAA & adult child context
06:04 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
06:31 Q2: Meltdowns escalating to panic attacks
06:47 Panic attacks need professional help
07:08 Q3: High-functioning, unmotivated young adult
08:54 Screen for depression first
09:19 Small steps & realistic expectations
10:23 Sponsor: SAINT treatment overview
11:09 Q4: Conflicting PDA advice
12:04 Know your child's specific circumstances
12:23 SPACE therapy reference
13:08 Be willing to pivot strategies
13:23 Q5: Autistic child on baseball team
14:01 Coach's role & league support
14:38 Parents need to be involved
15:30 Group sports vs. solo sports for autism
16:09 Parents can't just say "deal with it"
17:04 What does the child actually learn?
17:24 Lack of post-diagnosis support for parents
17:42 Outro & disclaimer